BOYCOTT PRIDE

[djones]

So, June is Pride month and many cities will be hosting various Pride events, parades, etc. - the predominate theme being gay pride. Sure, it has become politically correct to use "lgBt" Pride in most places, yet the reality is that the events are by and large catering to the gay and lesbian community.

While historically, Bisexual activists were instrumental in starting pride movements and the push for acceptance and equal rights, the lgBt leadership has actively pursued a course of, at best, silencing the Bi voice and, at worst, Bi erasure - tacitly and overtly.

Fighting to maintain a historic place in the gay and lesbian "lgBt" community seems no longer to make sense. Time has changed and the current generation has steered what lgBt community there may have been to a much different place. Rather, it seems more logical to accept this and forge our own community and speak with our own voice.

To participate and support the pride parades and whatnot is, in essence, an act of self sabotage - supporting the groups that would rather we stayed silent or did not exist.

It seems futile to run for blocks to catch a bus only to be made to sit silently in the back . . .

Boycott Pride.

[WildColonial]

Very thought-provoking POV, DJones. My GF (a lesbian trans woman) and I were discussing this not long ago, and she enlightened me that trans folk were instrumental in the Stonewall Riots. We also talked a great deal about the marginalization of various subcultures in the LGBT community: people of color, trans men and women, bisexuals, poor and lower-middle-class LGBT people, people with disabilities, senior citizens, other gender-diverse folk.

Here in Cleveland, LGBT seems to be synonymous with "pretty, white, upper-middle-class 20s-40s gay men and lesbians." We don't fit neatly into that category. She's on disability and I'm a pink-collar wage slave. She has PTSD, and I have bipolar disorder and ADHD.

We do both still plan to attend Cleveland Pride, she because she is marching in the parade with a group she belongs to and I because I've never been there (despite being a Cleveland resident for 20+ years) and to meet her friends from her group.

[RockGardener]

I say do the opposite! Go to Pride and fly your bi flag! Wear bi colors, or a tshirt proclaiming bi-ness. By boycotting, you're allowing bi erasure. BE VISIBLE!!!!

[PamelaBiPantyboy]

I cannot follow the logic in making a stand in something by further silencing our own voices, and erasing our very own visibility.
Gay people largely feel w are lying to ourselves, and not gay enough; All this wile preaching acceptance, and diversity, and peace.
This is the whole point of the Rainbow flag . Show up, and hold your head high. Buy Bisexual gear, and show it proudly.

[wonder528]

Division only hurts the whole. Go, be visible and celebrate. If your questioned as to why your there just ask, "You'd rather not have my/our support?" Provoke a honest discussion, don't run and cower, make a positive contribution for change.

[Long Duck Dong]

So, June is Pride month and many cities will be hosting various Pride events, parades, etc. - the predominate theme being gay pride. Sure, it has become politically correct to use "lgBt" Pride in most places, yet the reality is that the events are by and large catering to the gay and lesbian community.

While historically, Bisexual activists were instrumental in starting pride movements and the push for acceptance and equal rights, the lgBt leadership has actively pursued a course of, at best, silencing the Bi voice and, at worst, Bi erasure - tacitly and overtly.

Fighting to maintain a historic place in the gay and lesbian "lgBt" community seems no longer to make sense. Time has changed and the current generation has steered what lgBt community there may have been to a much different place. Rather, it seems more logical to accept this and forge our own community and speak with our own voice.

To participate and support the pride parades and whatnot is, in essence, an act of self sabotage - supporting the groups that would rather we stayed silent or did not exist.

It seems futile to run for blocks to catch a bus only to be made to sit silently in the back . . .

Boycott Pride.

the people most responsible for bi invisibility and bi erasure, are the bi community themselves and its about time that the bi community stop blaming everybody else for the fact that the bi community are not visible..... as it makes about as much sense as preaching about bi visibility from the safety and anonymous aspect of the closest........

the bi community for the most part, is invisible because they choose to be invisible, they do not want their personal lives put on display for other people to ogle and they see no need to, because they have the option of enjoying marriage with a partner that may be open to their bisexual interests and marching down a street, may be out of their comfort zone..... and there is not a dammed thing wrong with that......

the Gay and Lesbian communities have had to fight for the right to same gender marriage, they have not enjoyed the freedom of opposite gender marriage like bisexuals have... and why bisexuals may have not had the option of same gender marriage, they have been able to avoid a lot of the pitfalls of social living that the gay and lesbian communities have had to deal with, by the bisexuals choice to remain invisible within the community.......

all the blaming the monosexuals and the gays and lesbians for our choices and the way we choose to live our lives, is making people no better than the people they are rubbishing and blaming for the way the bisexual community choose to live...... because a lot of the push for a bisexual livestyle and community, is also not in line with what a lot of bisexuals want... IE, the push for a end to monogamy and closed marriage, is a slap across the face for the bisexuals that are fine with that lifestyle and they are often the ones that also feel their support of bisexuals that are open minded and poly minded, is not wanted .........

in order for the bisexual community to stand up as a bisexual community, they need to stop trying to railroad the bisexual community into supporting only a non monogamous / poly lifestyle and embrace the bisexual community with the acceptance and tolerance that the bisexual community would like to see... not just see preached by people that are so quick to stick the boot into bisexuals that do not * fit in with the accepted image of bisexuality *


I have helped create and run a lot of LGBT groups, publicly and privately....and most of the time, they end up fighting over who has the right to have a voice and about what......rather than accept that everybody has a voice and deserves the right to be heard, and that the biggest issue that faces any group, is the lack of support from their own quarter.....the LGBT business group I worked with, imploded because of issues with the bisexual people and the fact that they blamed the gay and lesbian people for the fact that the bisexual community did not back their own * leaders * and provide the support for the bisexual aspect....

the same thing is happening again... the bisexual community is not really proving a lot of support for the public bisexual community in pride events, so the gay and lesbian communities are being blamed... and the answer to the issue ??? well, lets all go and hide and blame the gay and lesbian community for the fact we are invisible........

most of the LGBT are not against us, they are supportive of us but getting pissed off at the same back handed slaps from the bisexual community that some bisexuals are claiming the gays and lesbians are doing to us......and ignoring the fact that the bisexual community can be very good at the same tactics when it suits them......

its people like me that have helped create and fund bisexual groups, that question if the money is well placed and spent when it comes to bisexual groups, and we are talking large sums of money invested in bisexual groups, most of them have ended up crashing or just becoming another meat market for bisexual males to hook up at but no support for any other aspect and thats because thats the extent of their bisexuality and bisexual interests......

if you want bi pride, be proud of your bisexuality, create bi pride events, create bi pride groups, stand up and be counted and ready to embrace the non bisexuals that support and stand with us because they are the ones that we have to share the world with.... but if you want to blame people for the fact that the bisexual community is not visible enough for your liking, start looking at the bisexual community that are not standing up and supporting you because they are the people that ultimately are the ones that make up the bisexual community that is invisible.....

[darkeyes]

The regular cry "Gay is to blame" dusn't haff make me laff at times... is kinda like the killer who butchers a family and then claims it was their fault because they didn't like him sneakily kicking their dog.. or a certain young American guy who went on the rampage because girls didn't fancy him... everyone is to blame except ourselves hey? Get wise guys.. there are gays and lesbians who are like ya say... but not most... no wer near most or the b wud have been removed from lgbt a long time ago... don't u dare try and deny ur own part in ur own bierasure and invisibility.. I don't blame bisexuals for it.. because I do understand why it happens... but I do blame some.. many.. but by no means the majority of bisexuals for placing all the blame onto the lesbian and gay communities.. because what they claim is quite simply is not so..

[tenni]

This seems to be a near annual event on this site. The debate whether bisexuality really benefits from these gay parades.

“you're allowing bi erasure”
Nonsense!!!!

Protesting by removing yourself from events that do not promote or support bisexuality is not bi erasure.

Bi erasure or Bi Invisibility has to do with ignoring or removing references of bisexuality in media, academia, or history.

Not participating in an activity does not mean that you are allowing anything. If you want to act gay then sure wear your bi colours just like gay people. Follow the same manner of protest. You will blend in quite well these days of gay pride parades. OR hold banners about the real meaning of bi erasure if you believe that it exists within your local GLBT organizations. If you believe that the local organization is failing at providing services for bisexuals, then protest.

There may be a point to make the stand/protest at a different time that the usual gay pride activities. Imo wearing jewelry that signifies your sexuality is ok for you but not me. It also may be acting gay and following the mantra of the gay movement. I dunno.

I agree that bisexuals are not as visible as GLT to some extent because we want to fit in and can fit in to heteronormaltive lifestyles..unless we are in a same sex couple relationship. Bisexuals or some do not care for distinguishing themselves.

Those that do may act and follow gay practices of protest but I think that you may want to ask yourself why bisexuals do not have their own separate parade? (like dike parades in Toronto) If you believe that your local GLBT organization is not providing adequate services to support bisexuals, put that on your banner!!! DISTINGUISH the bisexual from the GL. We are not under the same umbrella unless bisexuals get good services from these GL organizations!! Why is it that thoughts of suicide and depression are so much more predominate in Bisexual women and me than in the GL community? Improper services or?

As djones states, does marching down a street half naked communicate what bisexuality is? How the fek does that work to progress acceptance of bisexuality? How does that promote tolerance of closed loop relationships?

I am going to be in an exhibition by international, bisexual artists in Toronto. It is part of World Pride. The organizers are to be commended as this may be one of the few exhibitions by bisexual artists. I am watching to see how the organizers deal with the "bisexual' aspect. The exhibition title is super! I am finding that the term GLBT is being used though. I don't know why they are being inclusive for Gay youth in activities connected to an exhibition from bisexual artists? Can they not focus on bisexual youth? There is a video about GLBT repression in Russia shot during the Olympics. That is great!!! The video does seem to show this repression and anger..but no where do I see bisexuals clearly portrayed. Are the two women kissing Bisexual or Lesbian?

The video about Russian GLBT. It is good and lovely portraits. Can you identify the bisexuals?

<font face="Helvetica" size="3"> from the gays?

[DuckiesDarling]

I'm gonna toss my two cents in here. I think that a lot of people who are not homophobic but just not comfortable with the overly flaming behavior that happens at most Pride Parades, indeed is caricatured in numerous shows and movies. I think that if everyone just went as you are, our brothers, our fathers, our sons, our wives, our daughters, our mothers.... just walking down the street showing there is nothing to fear or ridicule. Maybe a lot less hostility would surround these from all communities and maybe then it wouldn't matter what part of the umbrella you stand under, as long as you make a stand.

[darkeyes]

As djones states, does marching down a street half naked communicate what bisexuality is? How the fek does that work to progress acceptance of bisexuality? How does that promote tolerance of closed loop relationships?

What is the purpose of marches and demonstrations, tenni? The purpose is to communicate, but of themselves they do not communicate in depth particularly, and often not at all, what a demonstration or march is about.. they are intended to communicate that the cause exists.. that the marchers and demonstrators march as is their right, in pursuance of their cause; that they will not be silenced and will not go away into the recesses of society's wardrobe....

A march in itself rarely wins a cause and is even less likely in itself to change minds.. it needs more and as part of a larger overall campaign it is a useful tool and essential for that cause to be kept in the public eye.. marches and demonstrations by the lgbt over half a century, allied to activities within Parliament, Trade Unions, educational establishments including schools (through better sex education and anti prejudice and bullying practices), in the media, public meetings and leafleting campaigns, book publication etc etc all playing their part in opening and changing minds is what has gotten us where we are today.. and helped other causes gain acceptance and change the prevailing attitudes of a society.. sometimes help change society as a whole.. Pride is just such an event which cannot be taken in isolation.. it is part of the greater campaign which has achieved amazing almost unbelievable results over the last half century.. and it is ongoing..

..that a march or pride event alone is unlikely to convince and change minds is undoubted... but taken with everything else don't bloody well turn ur nose up at either... because they are a part of so much more... and without either it is likely u and I wouldn't be here arguing the point... and in respect of Pride events, in the west at least, there are few people who have a good idea what the event is...

I am all in favour of bisexuals occasionally having their own events, even outwith and independent of the lgbt umbrella.. gay women do, trans people do it.. gay men do it, and bisexuals do it too sometimes.. and I would gladly demonstrate and be a part of most such bisexual events.. unless of course u think that being gay I have no right to march or protest in support and/or such demonstrations and marches were expressing as intolerant a view of my kind as some on this site seem to be.....

Not all in t' lgbt garden is rosy and we have hugely differing views of the lgbt within the lgbt and always shall... but it does pig me off when some bisexuals seem to think that it is we in the gay and lesbian communities who are to blame for all their ills and want to walk away..

[Gearbox]

It's GAY Pride! Is that a clerical error there, or is the LGBT only LGBT when it suits the gays? Much like when some claim that gays & lesbians fought for same gender marriage....all on their own....while bisexuals, transgenders and heterosexuals don't even get a mention.
THAT is what you get for taking part in anything with GAY stamped on it. Wave your little bi-flags all you want.....turn up with "I'M TRANSGENDER" painted on your forehead.....have all your hetero friends march with you in support.........it's GAY Pride!

Heterosexuals who attend GAY Pride are known as 'supporters': they support GAY people. They are in the same group as bisexuals and transgender: "Supporters' - who support GAY people. But it has FUCK ALL to do with heterosexuality, bisexuality or transgender-ism (if that's a word?).

Gay Pride is not about brotherly/sisterly love, accepting others, being non judgemental, being one big family, understanding sexuality yada....yada...hippy stuff....yada. You will not find a kiosk at Gay Pride where professionals work tirelessly to educate the masses about equality & stuff.
It's all about being out & gay and being apart from the heterosexual 'norm'......as a homosexual.
Those who are NOT anti-bi etc did not get that persuasion from any Gay Pride event. That's not what it's about!

Bi-erasure? That has nothing to do with the actual bisexual people. That is all about the sexuality itself. THAT is what gets erased. It doesn't matter how many bisexuals parade around being 'visible' with bi-flags etc......their sexuality is erased, not them!
It was the same for homosexuals many years ago when their sexuality was erased and labelled as a mental illness. It did not matter how many homosexuals were around......they were NOT homosexual, but ill & confused people.
Still today, many bi's hear the same thing about bisexuality from homosexuals. What was learned?

Bi-invisibility? What exactly is a visible bi supposed to look like or do? Are they expected to leave their opposite gender partners coz that is too hetero? Start having relationships with same gender coz just sex with them isn't gay enough?
If you're seen with ANY gender partner, are you expected to inform people that you are bi, even though it looks like you are straight or gay?
Hiding in heterosexual society? There is NO heterosexual society to hide in, and being with either gender is not hiding! What is 'hidden' is the nature of sexuality, and Gay Pride does NOTHING to educate ANYBODY about ANYTHING to do with that! Except of course the 'Born this way' mantra!

It's a fun day out......but......ho hum.

[darkeyes]

It is not Gay pride. Gear.. it is LGBT Pride.. or simply, as most call it these days PRIDE, it is organised by the LGBT for all those whose sexuality falls within the lgbt banner.. it is for all str8 people who support and fight for all those "queer" people.. Gay is a word attached to it by media and also by those who are not our friends.. it suits them and/or it is easy... and it is trap which many fall into.. even people within the lgbt or r our gr8est supporters..... a form of bi invisibility if u like.. trans invisibility too.. Pride events involve and are held in support of all.. gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans and whmtever other "queer" group or individuals happen to exist.. much of what u say is right but not all by a long chalk..... there is more to a Pride event than a March as most will know... with each group within the lgbt involving itself in these after parade events.. and I include bisexual groups..... I have no idea what form Pride in Wales takes.. but I will be very surprised if it differs from Pride up here or in the North East or the South of the UK or in most of the rest of the English speaking western world at least, and not be open to and involve all groups and people who fall within the Rainbow banner.. and bisexual groups and people serpently do that..

[tenni]

darkeyes
re" Pride

It is like adopted children. Gay Pride adopts a bisexual. Gay Pride adopts a transexual Gay Pride adopts two spirit Gay Pride adopts another group until there are no more spaces left on the line of letters..lol

Gay Pride thinks..oh our new kids need to feel comfortable with our real gay kids...Let's just call it PRIDE. They couldn't even create an entirely new word. "They" (those in power usually gay) say Pride will do. The media still call it Gay Pride to a certain extent.

[WildColonial]

I'm gonna toss my two cents in here. I think that a lot of people who are not homophobic but just not comfortable with the overly flaming behavior that happens at most Pride Parades, indeed is caricatured in numerous shows and movies. I think that if everyone just went as you are, our brothers, our fathers, our sons, our wives, our daughters, our mothers.... just walking down the street showing there is nothing to fear or ridicule. Maybe a lot less hostility would surround these from all communities and maybe then it wouldn't matter what part of the umbrella you stand under, as long as you make a stand.

Well said, DuckiesDarling.

[Gearbox]

It is not Gay pride. Gear.. it is LGBT Pride..

Gay Pride is supposed to be short for LGBT Pride, and also short for Fascist Regime Propaganda March Pride.
I've never heard anybody call it anything but Gay Pride here, or anywhere else. It's sometimes advertised as Pride Cymru here coz the word 'Pride' resembles 'Plaid' as in Plaid Cymru the Welsh nationalist political party......speaking of fascism.

But whatever Pride is, or is called...it's obviously doing nothing for anybody but gays. It's prob not even doing anything for them any more either.
Today it is politically incorrect to be homophobic. Job done!!YAY! It's ok to be biphobic and transphobic tho. That's coz it's all about the political GAY! It's not about the people, nor about sexuality/s. The words 'Gay' & 'Homosexual' are very well know and understood moderately well. We still have heaps of trouble with bisexuality and transgender. Not coz there are none around! But coz if your not heterosexual, you are homosexual, and if your not a man, you're a woman.

If it's LGBT Pride, it's a MASSIVE fail. But a great success if it's Gay Pride. Mainly coz many of the gays are pro-bi-erasure and don't give a toss about trans.

[tenni]

"If it's LGBT Pride, it's a MASSIVE fail. But a great success if it's Gay Pride. Mainly coz many of the gays are pro-bi-erasure and don't give a toss about trans.
hmm I must write that I have met one or two gay men who have told me that ten to twenty years ago, they would be the type that would say "bi today Gay tomorrow". To their credit, they have acknowledged their biphobia and realize now that there are many complex aspects to sexuality. I wouldn't say that gays are pro-bi-erasure in the sense of supporting bisexual not be included in history and media newspapers, TV etc. They seem to have been so focused on their own identity and gay issues that they have not realized or seen bisexuality as oppressed and suppressed.

Gays expect bisexuals to do what they did (parade, protest,) if we want to get rid of biphobia and Bi invisibility. Bisexuals are not gay people...I don't think(hard to tell with some threads on this site) We do not seem to want to be proud and out like gays in many cases. We have yet to have found our way. Trans are more visible and I suspect seen as visibly struggling. Bisexuals and bisexual issues are hardly even known. Even on a bisexual site we have more 'show me your cock, have you taken it up the arse threads. How the fek different are most of these threads from a gay site? Not much.

The GLBT organization is a failure today as far as being of much benefit to bisexuals. Some bisexuals especially newly aware confuse bisexuality as something in between the two monosexual groups. They refer to feeling more gay today etc. Where is the support to help educate them to see bisexuality as different from monosexuality? Nope too busy adding letters to the organization's title so that it can feel inclusive.

How does two spirit differ from bisexuality? How does pansexual differ? Far too many splintering groups to be of benefit to anyone specific group ..other than gays maybe.

[darkeyes]

Bisexuals are different from any other sexuality.. just as other sexualities are from each other..but none is so different that a little involvement in protest wouldn't advance their cause.. simply because they aren't gay, or trans, or str8 doesn't mean life is so good that they have nowt to complain about.. u and Gear are evidence enough of that, and others, rightly or wrongly who may feel that we, the lesbian and gay community are the root of all evil...... which is what protest and campaigns of action are all about.. dealing with our oppression and suppression from wherever it comes.. even from within the lgbt by people like me if it is felt we are so obsessed by our own oppression that we ignore urs or even oppress u..... and there are gays and lesbians who are so obsessed.....

...but few indeed so obsessed by their own oppression and suppression as to match the feelings and obsessions of so much of the bisexual community.. there are good reasons for those obsessions and feelings not least because of the familial and marital status and attachments of so many.. and the fear of persecution by a society which has not yet come to accept them in quite the way they have gay and lesbian people (who I may remind are are not universally accepted as yet by all and never shall be)...

...this lack of acceptance is particularly true in respect of acceptance of the sexuality of bisexual men, just as lesbianism is more easily accepted in our societies than is male homosexuality (I know tenni.. I'm teaching grannie to suck eggs again but sometimes we have to remind ourselves of it...).. many in the gay and lesbian communities had similar problems and still do and probably always shall.. not in quite the same numbers as those who are bisexual I think because of the nature of their sexuality; they find it easier, although far from easy to break with marital and familial attachments.. but in sufficient numbers to have an inkling of what bisexuals in huge numbers go through as they try and make a life from within the closet.. many gays never leave their own after all.. but for bisexuals it is often so much more difficult because they retain physical, emotional and sexual attractions to the opposite gender as well as finding they have these attractions to their own.. this is a complication which gay and lesbian people do not have to anything like the same degree and so makes bisexuals as a group less likely to come out of that closet.. and so often less prepared (certainly not openly) to fight for their rights and advance their cause in quite the same way as the gay lesbian and trans communities.

We are not ur enemies.. some of our number may well be and probably are, but in general, no.. because of the historical condemnation and prohibition of homosexuality and consequently bisexuality, many of your own kind are ur enemies because out of fear and often disgust in themselves they turn on their own kind... and gays and lesbians are not immune from this either... the last thing I wish to see is a splintering of the lgbt.. that I see as a very undesirable development.. for trust me in this.. were it to come to pass, only one group would benefit and that is not the homosexual community.. it is those within the community who loathe all of us and everything we stand for.. the bigoted and intolerant anti-lgbt part of the heterosexual community. Your last little barb was unpleasant and uncalled for.. not least because it simply is untrue. It isn't the lesbian or gay communities who look to splinter the loose coalition known as the lgbt. I don't believe that the bisexual part of that community does either...

And for Gear??? Ahh, me luffly Gear.. LGBT Pride a massive fail? I don't think so.. all the advances of the last 50 years come from the lgbt working together (also with heterosexual allies) and Pride has increasingly become a part of that.. LGBT Pride.. it will I hope and trust continue to help us move forward.. if it ever does become Gay Pride as u claim already is, then that group of intolerance and bigotry of which I spoke in the last paragraph will be nothing less than overjoyed and will know it has us on the run.. all of us.. lesbian, gay, bisexual, Trans and everyone else who isn't of their "norm"...

[Long Duck Dong]

to be honest, this thread is a prime example of why so many bisexuals do not get involved..... I have heard the same sentiments echoed in different groups about how if the name calling, back handed slaps and general muck raking starts, people are going to walk away from the groups......

I think I can sum this thread and issue up in a few short sentences as to what people may be seeing going on in the thread and as to why they may distance themselves from bisexual groups and bi pride events but would happily go with a LGBT pride march......

1) its the gays and lesbians that are at fault for bisexuals not having a powerful presence at pride parades
2) its females and monosexuals and hetero society that is at fault for bisexuals not being in their perfect relationship
3) its religion and society that is at fault for the animosity towards bisexuals and bisexuality.....
4) its other people that should learn to be more accepting and tolerate of bisexuals and bisexuality.....

5) its never bisexuals that are responsible for any of it and the failure of bisexuals to create groups for bisexuals, is not the bisexuals fault........
.

a pride event is no different, its not one great pride event, its a gathering of people that can share one or more common interests, be the person LGBT or allied / supportive.... and that is why they work so well, there is tolerance and acceptance for the most part .......

I agree with you, fran..... its the intolerant and bigoted that will be overjoyed once they drive out anybody that they think, does not belong or is not welcome.... and they are the ones that spend more of their time complaining about how nobody is uniting with them or standing up for rights.... and promptly blame everybody else because hardly anybody is standing with them, while they watch people join other communities, groups and pride parades where they are able to have fun and enjoy themselves without all the animosity

[darkeyes]

Well.. maybe u partly agree wiv me Duckie.. am not sure we r talking about quite the same bunch of intolerant bigots... and actually there is a little glowing ember of truth deep among the ashes regarding points 1 and 2. Only a little one which some seem to enjoy blowing to try and reignite the fire.. there is however a fair ole fire roaring re point 3.. a lot less roary than it was once and it is being dampened down ever so slowly but roary it is even now... and is point 4 not in large part what we are about? So much truth in that and plenty flame to be hosed down... Point 5 also has some quite brightly glowing embers.. I can easily understand why those who are outwith the mainstream feel aggrieved... non heterosexual peoplel did for centuries after all... and such is the historical pre-eminence of the gay community that the perception of it being mainstream lgbt is strong and I would argue a truism so it is easy to understand why bisexuals and other groups often feel left out..

...it is in large part why my little country is having a referendum this year on leaving the the great monolith known as the UK.. so I understand it even if I believe it to be a wrong perception.. but perception isn't always reality... but we have to deal with that perception and draw into our bosom thsoe who feel so aggrieved and left out and deal with their grievances... as with my little country, I very much doubt that buggering off and doing its own thing is either a wise or a very sensible move...

Of course it irritates, but I don't think wading into those who feel so aggrieved and giving an impression of being holier than thou is the way forward.. the populist view is never one which works... it simply agitates and makes them think they are even more right that in fact they are... how much more bitter are we if we see ourselves forced up against a wall in defence of life and limb... and how much harder do we fight? We have to have dialogue to deal with their concerns..

[tenni]

I don’t think that it is fair to write that bisexuals are different from any other sexuality and then to counter it with all sexualities are different.

There is a huge difference between monosexuals and bisexuals. The duality of attraction brings unique issues that monosexuals do not deal with. I will admit that homosexual monosexuals dealt with huge differences from heterosexual monosexuals.

I don’t think that monosexuals are enemies of bisexuals. I'm uncertain as to how helpful they are..lol We tend to perplex them.

Bisexuals are to blame for not uniting and being more proactive about their own needs. I’m not sure why but certainly the basis of dual attraction is a factor. Being able to usually blend in with the mainstream hetero monosexuals is part. Yet, there should be no reason to have to be "out" in a just world...alas no just world. I don’t think that using words like “fault” helps anyone. Boycotting Pride events would work if bisexuals had power. They do not seem to have power and a boycott will not be noticed unless they counter protest on the same day or something. Bisexuals for the most part are invisible. Waiting for the GLBT organizations to do something appropriate for bisexuals seems to be a way off. Studies and reports have shown that some GLBT organizations fail bisexuals. It is not gays that are to blame as much as GLBT organizations have failed and whose fault is that?

[Long Duck Dong]

multiple faceted view point condensed into a sentence, fran

I am not really sure that I see much of a difference between a bible wielding person that wants to deny people the choice of same gender marriage.... and the chest pounding person that wants to push people into open / poly / non monogamy relationships and marriages ....... they all tend to end up at the same point, wanting everybody else to conform to their beliefs... and most of the time, they are not even living the way they preach......

I am never going to be anything but on the other limits regardless of what community I walk with but thats simply because of the way I was born......but it does not mean that I can not be right in the middle of those communities sharing the love, hugs and acceptance of others and that is what sets me apart from the people that want to define the limits and fail to realise just how many people they would cast out of the community..... and thats why i have as little trouble as I do with the gay and lesbian communities, I move with the groups and communities that are all embracing and tolerant, and generally stay out of the groups where there is the constant need to fight somebody over some perceived wrong doing ......

I do not accept to see a perfect world in my lifetime, but the younger generation are definately more free loving, open minded and tolerant than some of the older generation that should open their eyes and realise that society is changing, it has been for quite a while.....and some of the gay / lesbian and bisexual communities here, are starting to tell people to shut up and back off because now they are turning our allies into our enemies...and its not over rights.... its over the discrimination, lack of tolerance and in fighting that is threatening our communities and ripping them apart... and to me its the same with the christian / religious groups that have backed us up..... sooner or later they are going to get pissed off with being rubbished by the lgbt community that they are supporting and backing us up against the other christian / religion groups that are trying to stop us having rights.......

I will be honest.... if push came to shove, I would march in a pride parade and openly say that I do not march as part of the bisexual community, I march along side my bisexual, gay, lesbian, hetero and other friends as ME, sexuality undefined....hugging everybody, loving them all and accepting them for who they are... and as long as my sexuality puts me on one side of the battle field or the other side, I would rather not have a sexuality label at all.....

[darkeyes]

I don’t think that it is fair to write that bisexuals are different from any other sexuality and then to counter it with all sexualities are different.

There is a huge difference between monosexuals and bisexuals. The duality of attraction brings unique issues that monosexuals do not deal with. I will admit that homosexual monosexuals dealt with huge differences from heterosexual monosexuals.

I don’t think that monosexuals are enemies of bisexuals. I'm uncertain as to how helpful they are..lol We tend to perplex them.

Bisexuals are to blame for not uniting and being more proactive about their own needs. I’m not sure why but certainly the basis of dual attraction is a factor. Being able to usually blend in with the mainstream hetero monosexuals is part. Yet, there should be no reason to have to be "out" in a just world...alas no just world. I don’t think that using words like “fault” helps anyone. Boycotting Pride events would work if bisexuals had power. They do not seem to have power and a boycott will not be noticed unless they counter protest on the same day or something. Bisexuals for the most part are invisible. Waiting for the GLBT organizations to do something appropriate for bisexuals seems to be a way off. Studies and reports have shown that some GLBT organizations fail bisexuals. It is not gays that are to blame as much as GLBT organizations have failed and whose fault is that?

Not fair tenni, hey? And how do u make that out??? Arguably, and it is a point I am increasingly coming round to thinking, bisexuals are more similar to both hetero and homosexuals because of the very nature of their sexuality and Gay and str8 are far more different from each other than they are from u lot.. we can argue both ways, tenni..

I have long believed that the very nature of bisexuality has meant greater numbers remaining hidden in the closet than are from the lesbian and gay communities.. this belief goes back to the days I was bisexual myself, Time and experience has also taught me that there appears to be a far greater number of bisexuals knocking around than there are homosexual.. this comes from my experience of bisexual and lesbian women.. my experience of bisexual men is far more limited in that I have never knowingly had sex with one and still don't know if I ever did.. tho I do find it difficult to believe that it never occurred... but I find it even more difficult to believe that women are vastly more bisexually likely then men.. consequently, I have long since believed that there are far far more bisexuals around in this world than homosexual.. possibly even more than heterosexual but I have moved away from that idea somewhat.. and I have long believed that as bisexuals gain more confidence and belief in themselves theywill play a greater part in the lgbt, and that some day, those of us who are gay within the lgbt will b swamped by this new confident army of bisexual people, confident and strident to take the lgbt where it will.. and hun, they will some day have the power so to do... because I don't believe that we queer monosexuals will have the power or numbers to stop them.. so we will require to make a new accommodation with bisexuals... and bisexuals will have to try and not abuse the power their sheer number grants them.. both gay and bisexual some day will have to be big enough to work together in such a scenario and avoid the kinds of squabbling we find now when it is the gay community which is seen to have that power..

...vengeance is a delight best served cold it is said... what I reckon is that it is best served not at all and the bisexual community will have to try and be big enough and mature not 2 act in reality in ways that it many currently believe gay and lesbians do... and I have no real fears that it will fail in that.. although there will be a few unpleasant little spats no doubt... we are human after all...

Sed me bit, tenni.. sed moren I intended on this thread but thats the way of things.. I think time will c us ok.. bi and gay..trans and str8 and most everyone else... maybe not in our lifetimes, and never perfectly, but we will b ok of that I am sure.. I don't c things quite in the same way as Duckie.. I am far more confident that they will b ok and will b moren worthy successors 2 our generations in matter of sex and sexuality... I have many worries bout the young and where they are headed... but not bout sex and sexuality, no matter how thoughtlessly and selfishly older generations deal deal with them.. if the history of the lgbt of the last 50 years tells us anything it should be that...

[matutum]

I'm bi but see no need to march in a parade, I have some friends with whom I hook up with. I do not push being bi on others, and don't like the idea of forcing others to accept my sexualness. or force them to make a gay cake. I respect other peoples' choices to live their life as they see fit. That's what freedom is all about.

[darkeyes]

I'm bi but see no need to march in a parade, I have some friends with whom I hook up with. I do not push being bi on others, and don't like the idea of forcing others to accept my sexualness. or force them to make a gay cake. I respect other peoples' choices to live their life as they see fit. That's what freedom is all about.

I wasnt going to utter another word and after this wont on this thread.. if u dont want to march on a parade fine.. ur choice.. no one makes u.. no one would want to. And most on site agree, I serpently do, that no one has the right to force their sexuality on any other. Most of us respect others choices and that is as it should be.. but Pride parades and other lgbt demonstrations and marches happen because for centuries others told our kiind what we must be... and that must be heterosexual.. in ur country and mine millions still try to make us live like that, and in other countries many still do, but luckily because of marches and demonstrations and parades and other activities by the lgbt, many more in the west at least are now on our side and we have rights that these others would take from us. Maybe even the right to life... that is why u can be bi, or gay for that matter... people acted to get u that right..publicly or secretly is ur choice but legally.. not as in the past clandestinely in fear of ur life because what u are was considered a legal abomination.....

I don't mind u not wanting to take part in support of Pride... just don't knock it because without activities such as Pride, u would still be considered an abomination and living in fear for ur life from church and state.. as well as many of the worst of those millions who loathe ur and my very existence..

[Gearbox]

We are not ur enemies.. some of our number may well be and probably are, but in general, no..

I don't think anybody believes all gay & lesbian-kind are bisexuals enemies. We shag enuf of em. I don't think even the anti-bi gays & lesbians think they are enemies either.
What IS our enemy is the ignorance and apathy of Pride. Once upon a time it was a protest against oppression. Now it's just a moronic show of arrogance and a celebration of 'out'. It's apathetic towards sexuality, as the the theme of 'born this way' & 'different' are basically it.
Where does 'born this way' meld with 'fluidity' and 'born in the wrong body'? It doesn't! Tough titty for bi's & trans.

That is the root of all evil IMO.lol Having chatted to many....many..many....quite a few....Ok loads...lol....gay men, it's very obvious that they have no idea what sexuality is, or how bigoted they are about it. If there actually is a LGBT political or social org or whatever, it's woefully void of the Human element of sexuality and social integration and education. It's hammered down into a political & sociopathic agenda.

For eg:
(1.) Today I chatted to a 'gay' friend of mine on-line. He was saying that although he knew he was born gay at 14, he still fell in love with twice with women, had LT relationships with them and really enjoyed the sex etc. He's 53 and has been to lots of Pride events etc.lol

(2.) On a gay site I haunt, homophobia was discussed. Two mods refused to accept biphobia & bi-erasure claims from another bi member, coz (in their opinions) bisexuality doesn't exist. Liking cock, means that you were born gay! This was on a site dealing with sexuality issues, and the mods are not retarded, and are lovers of Pride events etc

I could go on & on with egs just as apathetic towards reason like those ones....believe me. What disturbs me (and it should all IMO) what the fuck are getting out of those Pride events? Are they being indoctrinated into a belief system? Should it be supported?
It's sinister IMO. Far too much like a religious movement where NOTHING matters as long as you're a follower. It all needs to move on and into the 21st century, quit the propaganda lark and start being inclusive of ALL society & sexualities etc. Otherwise Pride is just a march of arrogance.

[darkeyes]

In a funny sort of way ur right.. it is a celebration.. but not one of arrogance, maybe of out but I've never thought of it in that sense.. Pride is a celebration of we are here..who we are.. we are gay or bi, or trans or pan or whatever we are.. we are telling the world we aren't going away and we will have fun while we are here. It is a celebration of lgbt history. There is not and never has been any effort in indoctrination.. we leave indoctrination to quite another bunch of tossers...it is a celebration of freedom and like so many such celebrations it has its message. It is about inclusion, Gear.. about the inclusion into society of anyone and everyone irrespective of sexuality or gender with the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else in that society.. I don't c much that is sinister about that, but then paranoia only nips at my arse... it hasn't consumed me quite yet..

[Gearbox]

Well, yes that is the level of Pride - "We are here!". Who doesn't know that these days? What is the point of being 'here' when that's all you've got to say.....year after year? Everybody knows it already. It needs to progress IMO. It needs to actually tackle oppression and not just be big & strong enuf to overcome it.
That takes education, and from what I've experienced with gay men in particular, that isn't the LGBT's strong point. Oppression just gets another source and target, while homosexuality is transplanted to ID.

Compare sexuality to spiritualism with the ID's of religion & Labels. Get a monosexual orientated gay man into a room for a chat about non-monosexuality, and compare with a monotheist's chat about non-mono spirituality/atheism.
Those that are fanatic, will fail to bend no matter what the reasoning, and no matter what their intelligence. I would like to be paranoid about that, but I've experienced it enough times to doubt that's what it is. Belief is a powerful thing!
It is eerie, and it's sinister. But that's what Humans are as a whole and society just reflects it. If the LGBT were to have a crack at 'bringing out the demons' I'd be there waving my little flag & banging on my tambourine.

[darkeyes]

I and many otha peeps have birfday bashes every year... wot's the point of that? Best I can tell its a celebration of still being here.. and celebrating otha peeps also being here.. Pride is a celebration.. its a party. Think of it as being the lgbt's birfday party wich in some ways is just wot it is... can't peeps just have fun sometimes? Sure its fun wiv a purpose but not every1 gives a sod about that particular purpose.. not the same purpose.. many go 2 get sozzed and get laid just like they do at ne otha party...

.. course the lgbt isn't perfect... wivout it tho, Gear, we wud all b in a rite pickle hidden away inside our wardrobes or in clink..

[Gearbox]

There should be rows of floats with massive wardrobes full of peeps at Pride! Should be a 'Down low' one where peeps take turns jumping in & out, and a sexuality trampoline where peeps bounce up & down into a big pink bubble before falling down into the model hetro village around it.lol

As a bit of fun, it's ok. More tho!!! MORE!!!!

[tenni]

"There are gays and lesbians who are biphobic, there are straight people who are biphobic, and yes there are even bisexuals who are biphobic and who do not understand bisexuality."

GiovanniPHL
You have identified several issues.

How does going to Pride parades resolve these issues?