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Thread: Gaza Aid Convoy

  1. #211

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by hardnbubbly View Post
    HI Twyla,

    I did not mean to belittle your research abilities and so on. But you are 150% aligned with the official Israeli narrative of the story (even Israelis that I talk to don't see things this way). There are two sides to each story and possibly more. Yes Arab armies attacked Israel 60 years ago on its inception. But how about the ordinary people, those that became refugees, those that lost their homes, were separated from their families and were refused to be let back? Many of their villages still lay deserted in Israel. Western countries (including Canada may I say) paying money to Israel to build parks over these villages to erase their memory.

    Whatever this history is, there are kids being born today in the West Bank and Gaza. What is their crime? Why are they denied basic human rights? Why are they denied medicine? food? education? Why are the born to the sound of sonic booms from Israeli fighter jets flighing so low over crowded cities? Why are there so many cases of trauma in Palestinian kids?

    Let's forget about Palestinians. I am sure they are less than human beings and don't deserve equal human rights. I am curious, how would you explain this: http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news...-ramallah.html
    Wouldn't an american deserve better treatment?
    Again, well said. Unfortunately the link was listed as not available.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  2. #212

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    Ever think they can go back if they abide by the guidelines Israel sets forth? No, you have activists who bring in not humanitarian aid, but aid for terrorists and all disguised under the heading of "gaza relief". Pasa said it best, until Gaza stops firing rockets into Israel then Israel has the right to inspect anything entering.

    And as for Katrina??? How the fuck do you dare compare a natural disaster with something that was caused by the people suffering now?
    How do you know all this. Are you believing israel and your own country's new agencies. Israel is the problem and it;s arrogance and racism.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  3. #213

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    Ever think they can go back if they abide by the guidelines Israel sets forth? No, you have activists who bring in not humanitarian aid, but aid for terrorists and all disguised under the heading of "gaza relief". Pasa said it best, until Gaza stops firing rockets into Israel then Israel has the right to inspect anything entering.

    And as for Katrina??? How the fuck do you dare compare a natural disaster with something that was caused by the people suffering now?
    How do you know all this. How do you know that these activists are bringing in arms for terrorists (what you and your nation and the Israelis call terrorists....but not the Palestinians....) Are you believing Israel and your own country's news agencies. Israel is the problem, with it's arrogance and racism.

    What right does Isreal have, to decide how things should and shouldn't be done, how they should and shouldn't be. Why is Israel so innocent and everyone else wrong. Both sides are as bad as one another and you seem to forget, the times Israel has invaded other countries......for it's own welfare.....sounds a bit like a world power who always fight wars to keep that country's freedom.....and never mention the freedoms of other countries
    Last edited by Canticle; Jun 6, 2010 at 6:59 PM.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  4. #214

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Darkeyes
    I know what you intend to mean when your write "racist" but I tend to grit my teeth as Arabs and Jews are of the same race (caucasian). I think that some of us forget that Arabs are Caucasians. In fact, both are also semites as I recall meaning that they speak a semite language as do Aramaeans and many Ethiopians.

    I think that you mean bigoted?

    I myself am not a semite but I tend to be a semantic...

  5. #215

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by tenni View Post
    Darkeyes
    I know what you intend to mean when your write "racist" but I tend to grit my teeth as Arabs and Jews are of the same race (caucasian). I think that some of us forget that Arabs are Caucasians. In fact, both are also semites as I recall meaning that they speak a semite language as do Aramaeans and many Ethiopians.

    I think that you mean bigoted?

    I myself am not a semite but I tend to be a semantic...
    You poor soul... No I mean racist.. in Scots race law to persecute an English person because of their origin is prosecutable.. it is semantic as most Jews around the world have very little semetic blood in them.. and I include those in Israel.. when Rome destroyed the old Jewish Kingdom the people of Israel fled to the four corners of the earth. In 2000 years they so intermixed with other peoples that there is very little of the semite in the vast majority.. and when I talk of Arab racism I talk for instance of the way Pakistani and other people from the Indian sub-continent are treated in Saudi Arabia and Dubai where they are treated appallingly.. and here we are talking of 2 Islamic nations treating their fellow muslims as if they were nothing. That is not semantic...
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  6. #216

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by hardnbubbly View Post
    Twyla,

    Being an Arab I tell you that is not true. I know my people and I know the we are an emotional bunch, we get angry, we yell, we scream, but that's as far as we go. In Jordan and Egypt there are Israeli tourists going there. Palestinians in the Westbank (and previously from Gaza) work with Israelis often. The fanatics you are talking about exist on both sides and they are still a minority.

    After all, people are people regardless of race, colour, religion, sexual orientation etc. We all want the same basic things: food, shelter, health, education, a hope for a great future for our kids.

    I do remember stories my grandfather used to tell about him dating Jewish women in Jerusalem and how they used to live side by side and mix normally like any other place. I wish that they created a state on all of that land for all its people. A secular democratic state where every person is equal regardless of their race, religion, color, etc. Unfortunately the decision was made to create a state for jews only. By definition a state that is only for a single religion is not an equal state. Such a state grants more rights to a jewish kid born in New York that has never stepped foot in that land, than a Palestinian kid born on that land and whose grandparents lived on this land.

    We live in a depressing world dont' we.
    Well said again. You are right, the country should have been one for all people, whatever their race or religion and a secular state, at that.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  7. #217

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    I spoke to my father this evening after we got home from Cumbria. We were discussing this whole issue and both were incensed about how Israel has the temerity (in our view) to claim innocence.. my dad then said to me "Do you know what all this reminds me off? Orgreave."

    Now this may not seem to have anything to do with Gaza and it doesnt really.. but it is a salutory lesson about truth and something for people to think about.. my dad was at Orgreave when Thatcher sent in thousands of police to crush a picket and demonstration at the colliery during the miner's strike in 1984. Outnumbered something like 2 to 1 there was a running battle as the police attacked the protesting miners. It was brutal and nasty and many were hurt. The media of the time portrayed it as miners running amok and the barve police hard pushed to contain their insanity..televison pictures of the time were headlined in much the same way..yet time and evidence and the fact that prosecuted miners were aquitted of wrong doing and the authorities themselves were put in the dock of public scrutiny and condemned...

    This is a link to an article published in the Guardian in 2006 which Dad sent me, and better and more eloquently makes my point...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardia...p/04/features5
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  8. #218

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyes View Post
    You poor soul... No I mean racist.. in Scots race law to persecute an English person because of their origin is prosecutable.. it is semantic as most Jews around the world have very little semetic blood in them.. and I include those in Israel.. when Rome destroyed the old Jewish Kingdom the people of Israel fled to the four corners of the earth. In 2000 years they so intermixed with other peoples that there is very little of the semite in the vast majority.. and when I talk of Arab racism I talk for instance of the way Pakistani and other people from the Indian sub-continent are treated in Saudi Arabia and Dubai where they are treated appallingly.. and here we are talking of 2 Islamic nations treating their fellow muslims as if they were nothing. That is not semantic...
    "poor soul"...flips pages ....finds...."cheeky wanker"...reads meaning...nope that's not it...flips more pages......"cheeky tart"...yes..that is the wording...closes semantic book

    Well, some argue that there is no such thing as "race" Semite is not a genetic breakdown...remember I wrote "language" ( or should have) Both Arabs and Jews speak a Semite language (grouping) and that makes them both Semites. Sorta like the Scots, Irish, English, Canucks, Yanks, Aussies, NZ kiwis belong to the same Language group of English...

    ta ta
    Last edited by tenni; Jun 6, 2010 at 7:18 PM.

  9. #219

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by hardnbubbly View Post
    It's an analogy. Hits a nerve doesn't it. I guess you do think Americans are worth more than Palestinians.

    Btw, terrorists are a tiny minority. There are many ordinary people living in Gaza.

    And btw, Israel in the past has considered it its right to attack any country imposing a blockade on it. Did someone change the rules suddenly? Wouldn't the logic apply to Gaza.

    HUGE DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a supporter of violent resistance. Just pointing out a flaw in the logic used
    Are you surprised at the responses?

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  10. #220

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    Really? Then tell that to all the documented speeches of leaders in Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Jordan. Since they are ones calling for extermination of the Jewish nation.
    Round and round

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  11. #221

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by hardnbubbly View Post
    Egypt, Jordan have a peace treaty with Israel, so you got that completely off.

    Palestinian leaders are in negotiation with Israel so this one is also wrong.

    Syria and Iraq are part of the Arab league and they are part of the Pan-Arab peace offer to Israel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

    Plus, there is no such country as Palestine, it does not exist at the moment. All palestinian territories are occupied.


    Btw... if Arabs are such monsters I wonder how there are bus loads of tourists entering Jordan everyday from Israel?
    Well said

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  12. #222

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by tenni View Post
    "poor soul"...flips pages ....finds...."cheeky wanker"...reads meaning...nope that's not it...flips more pages......"cheeky tart"...yes..that is the wording...closes semantic book

    Well, some argue that there is no such thing as "race" Semite is not a genetic breakdown...remember I wrote "language" ( or should have) Both Arabs and Jews speak a Semite language (grouping) and that makes them both Semites. Sorta like the Scots, Irish, English, Canucks, Yanks, Aussies, NZ kiwis belong to the same Language group of English...

    ta ta
    Actually I agree there is only one race and it doesnt matter our colour or our origin..we are all human.. however race is an easy way if not entirely accurate of outlining the differences between peoples and the discrimination of different groups of them.. unfortuantely..we are in the minority I think.. or it wouldnt bloody happen..
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  13. #223

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    I said documented speeches as in anyone who has called for Jihad or extermination of the Jewish nation. Right now the loudest screaming is Iran and they want nuclear weapons to blow Israel off the map, never mind the people in Gaza that might not survive the blow and definitely wouldn't survive the radiation. Or any of the other close Arab countries that will suffer should Iran send a nuclear bomb into Israel.

    So how about you take a look at a few things...


    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=11583

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/netanyah...calls-1.284045
    Twyla you appear...from where I am sitting, to be repeating rhetoric, which you have read, or heard.

    The first link...very interesting. I almost, fully agree with what was said there.

    The second was Israeli propaganda and concentrated.....for the most part, on talking about the holocaust. NO ONE will ever say that the holocaust and the genocide of Jews and Gypsies and other people, should not be remembered. It has to be. But there comes a time when the past should be something to learn from and not be continually used to show just how special a people may be. There was genocide in Yugoslavia....recently....with Muslims being massacred. It doesn't matter what the race, creed or colour, of people, is....for we are all important. Jews do not have the copyright on mass murder and persecution. It has happened time and time again, to many peoples...all over the world.
    Last edited by Canticle; Jun 6, 2010 at 7:40 PM.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  14. #224

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by hardnbubbly View Post
    The world changes e.g. The IRA signed a peace treaty in Ireland.

    At present, Israel has an unprecedented peace offer from the Arab world. It chooses to ignore it.

    And btw, the only state in the middle east to hold nuclear weapons is Israel itself.

    The second URL you posted doesn't work.

    Again, well said.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  15. #225

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Beware - Yugoslavia is not the simple story it appears.

    .

  16. #226

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    Works fine for me me but I'll post the article it links to

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday called on the world "to confront Iran's exterminatory intentions and act resolutely to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons."

    Netanyahu spoke at the state ceremony on the eve of the Holocaust Martyrs and Heroes Day at the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem.

    "The historic failure of free societies to confront the Nazi beast was that they did not face it in time," Netanyahu said. "And today we are witness to the old hatred of Jews once again, fueled by extremist Islamic authorities, led by Iran and its satellites."

    "Iran's leadership is racing to develop nuclear weapons and declares its intention to destroy Israel. The world is gradually accepting Iran's exterminatory declarations regarding Israel and still we do not see the international determination required to stop the arming of Iran. But if we learned something from the Holocaust, it is that we cannot remain quiet or flinch in the face of evil."

    Earlier in the ceremony, President Shimon Peres said the world must not repeat its indifference at the face of new cries for the destruction of the Jewish people.

    Peres went on to say that "Israel will never forget the two decrees which the Holocaust enforced."

    "The firm demand to sustain an independent Jewish state, one that holds its security in its own hands while at the same time tirelessly seeking peace as well as the demand to treat threats of annihilation, Holocaust denials, and terror mongering with the utmost severity."

    Referring to comments made by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has threatened to "wipe the Zionist regime off the map," Peres said that it was Israel's right "and duty to demand the nations of the worlds never to repeat their indifference, one which cost millions of lives, including their own."

    "The ears of the United Nations must be attuned to the threats of annihilation made by one member of the UN against another. Otherwise, the foundation which holds the UN charter will collapse," Peres said.

    Referring to efforts to make the Middle East a nuclear-free zone, the president said that "in order to reach clean skies in the Middle East we must first dismantle the threats of annihilation."

    "Weapons of mass destruction in hands capable of destroying masses accompanied by voices calling for such destruction are the combination most perilous to world peace. They turn the world into an uncontrollable place," Peres said.

    The President added that he believed that some "parts of the Iranian people are themselves ashamed of the tyranny which has taken hold of it," adding that he thought the Arab states were "aware that Ahmadinejad's anti-Israel incitement is meant to disguise his real aim, which is establishing Iran as a regional power."

    "The [Second] World War broke with the Nazis' devilish incitement, claiming that they were a supreme race and Deutschland Uber Alles. We must never return to the beastly conception according to which there is such a thing as a supreme man, or supreme regime, or supreme race which can do whatever it sees fit," Peres said.

    Earlier in his speech, President Peres said that with night falling on all of Israel, evening had also fallen "not long ago on Antopol, Zhoromin, Rodnik and Mikhalova, towns that three quarters of their population was was wiped out. Not a single Jew is left."

    "Night has fallen on the village of Tostanovitza, where 2,803 Jews were murdered, on Libau in Latvia, where 7,101 Jews were murdered, on Khelm by Lublin from which 15,000 Jews were sent to their death," Peres said, adding that "darkness has also started covering the shadows of Dachau, Auschwitz and Birkenau, as well as Vishnive, where I was born and visited again as an Israeli minister, with not even one wooden beam left from the Jewish homes and the synagogue."

    Recalling the trip to his childhood town, Peres said he "visited the well that stood in our backyard. The water did not burn. I drew the bucket to taste the wasters of my childhood, and the water burned in my mouth, the taste of the fire which destroyed the town's people, my family, who remained there."

    "This night spread like a mourner's hut on the thousands of communities whose existence became a petrified tombstone, whose people and culture burned to ashes."

    A sundown covering the devastated synagogues and shuls, theaters and cultural institutions, the books that were set alight, the schools that turned to ashes. All erased, the lives, the houses, the culture, a world's smoky embers."

    "That fire will continue to burn within us, as an impossible farewell to our six million brothers, men, women, and elderly people, to a million and a half of our children, an immense potential of life and talent that was annihilated, an unreturnable loss."

    "He who passes today through the town of Zivorov in the Ukraine cannot know that in that place, one summer day in the beginning of 1941, a thousand Jews were shot to death and buried in two pits in the town."

    "He who passes today cannot hear the cry of April 9, 1943, when 2,300 Jews were forced to dig their own graves near the Sokolinaya gymnasium. They were murdered and thrown into the pits they dug with their own hands."

    "'What shall I equal to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin daughter of Zion?'" asks the Book of Lamentations, and asked the survivors of the ramps in Treblinka, Auschwitz and Birkenau, and asked those who arrived in Israel and immediately enlisted to the defense of the people in their fight for independence."

    Also referring to the defense of the Jewish people in light of the lessons learned by the Holocaust, Israel Defense Forces chief Gabi Ashkenazi said earlier Sunday that never again would the Jewish people lack the means to defend themselves.

    Speaking at the Yad Vashem memorial, Ashkenazi said the Jewish people "will never again be dependent on the benevolence of others," Ashkenazi said. "Never again will Jewish children be fearful or begging for mercy. Never again will an advocate of evil be able to dictate the future of the Jewish people."

    "In the name of my father and his family who fought for a sovereign and independent state and in the name of the millions who were unable to witness the realization of their dream, I stand here today as the commander of the Hebrew defense force, the Israel Defense Forces."

    Ashkenazi talked about the experiences of his father, a Holocaust survivor from the Bulgarian city of Plovdiv.

    "On the night of March 9th, 1943, my father's family opened their door to find Bulgarian police ordering them to prepare to be deported from Bulgaria within a few hours," Ashkenazi said. "Along with 6,000 other Jews, my father assembled in the yard of the school and recited the prayer 'Shema Yisrael.' In the end, my father and the Jews of Plovdiv were not sent to the death camps. The cancellation of their deportation order arrived when they were already at the train station, a short time before they were supposed to depart.
    Israeli propaganda

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    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  17. #227

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    What you stated with your analogy was not what you just said. There is no comparison to running away (If enough notice is given) from a natural disaster and running from a war. Losing a war leaves you with your home occupied by the victors and suffering a natural disaster leaves you with a mess to clean up when it's over.

    You continue to say that not all the people of Gaza are terrorists, I never said all the people there are. But apparently enough of them are there that they have a steady supply of rockets to fire into Israel. That is why Israel has the right to inspect the "aid" that is coming in and reject anything that could be used for insurgence. They have no problem letting in food, blankets, medicine and clothing, they have a problem with the idea that they should allow a ship to just sail into that port and offload whatever. Put yourself in their shoes for one moment, your next door neighbor is barricaded by you from the rest of world because of his threat to kill you. You inspect any aid going in but you would not allow a gun and ammo or the means to make a bomb to go in now would you? If you would, then you are a bigger fool than the fool who threatens to wipe out a nation in the name of religion.
    Since you're so quote happy, why didn't you answer the question?

  18. #228

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by hardnbubbly View Post
    It's hard to say, maybe its because the Arab world is ruled by puppet regimes that do not answer to their people but to the (super)powers that keep in them in place.

    When the western world claims they are putting a democracy in place what the people see is bombs falling on their heads and corrupt governments that do not represent their needs. When convenient they prop up a dictator (e.g. Saddam Hussain) and when it stops being convenient they destroy the country. Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon have seen it all as well. Lebanon was supposed to be getting a "democratic" pro-western government, how was it rewarded? By Israel bomb the hell out of it. Bombing the infrastructure, bombing everything.

    Anyway, what I am trying to say, we have governments that do not represent us in the middle east. Our voice is not heard. However, I think the internet is slowly changing that. At least for the internet connected world.

    The other reason is that many of the zionist jews who moved into Israel/Palestine did so from Europe and North America. They spoke the same languages and understood the intricacies of western culture. For Arabs, it is still a foreign culture.

    It is also hard to underestimate the effect of an organized PR campaign coming from a sovereign state as opposed to the scattered unorganized message you get from groups supporting Palestinian human rights.

    Also, there is quite a bit of media owned by Zionist Jews (I make the distinction since not all Jewish people support the actions of the government of Israel) and media affects a society's perception of reality.

    Probably the last reason is strategic political coming from the Cold War days, the U.S. government decided that Israel is probably the best counter balance to the soviet influence. I can only imagine that they had to sell this to the American people one way or another, and probably started the whole Israel is a beacon of democracy vs the savage Arabs argument.
    Yes, I would like to thank you too. You have said some very intelligent things and in a calm manner. it does no good to believe propaganda and keep going on about the evils of the Arab and non Arab Muslim States (I have a feeling that some people think that all Muslims in the general Middle Eastern area, are Arabs). the Isaraeli state is a much to blame as any other country in the area.

    Thank you...once again
    Last edited by Canticle; Jun 6, 2010 at 7:53 PM.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  19. #229

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    Personally, Tenni, I think any of the groups that do so are foolish. That would just be the catalyst to start a complete Middle Eastern war with the intention of wiping out Israel, one of Iran's main goals.
    Sheesh

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  20. #230

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyes View Post
    Dont know where u got that from..they were forced out or left for fear of their lives.. funny how history seems to read differently from country to country.. ...and it has been going on since the inception of Israel.. it would have occurred whether or not a warr had happened, maybe a little slower initially but Israel's intention was and remains Israel for the Jews... no one else gets a look in..not Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and certainly not Arab..
    Well said

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  21. #231

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyes View Post
    Would you listen to yourself Twyla.. what do u think Israel has been doing for the last 60 years?
    Well said

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  22. #232

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyes View Post
    Let me put this straight before you Duckie.. I AM an activist.. I dont sit at home all day and night simply writing futile posts to sites such as this.. I demonstrate and I act..it is the way I was raised and it is the way I live when the need arises.. I have risked arrest on picket lines, been faced with and indeed clattered by police batons and in France by a police riot shield.. I have lain down in front of police and military vehicles more than once and nop doubt shall do that again.. I have stood firm on a peaceful picket line as it has been driven at by vans and lorries.. I act..it puts my life at risk and my comrades put theirs at risk.. I have been struck and kicked, beaten and more than once hurt quite badly.. this also may happen again.. I will not raise my hand to any.. I am a pacifist and I believe in my pacifism absolutely.. what has happened this last week was appalling..we disagree as to who is the most likely guilty party.. no one can escape blame entirely but to blame those on the ship for the loss of life is a travesty.. if I had been on board I would have done what I suspect most did.. stood and awaited my fate.. that some stood up to them and defended themselves by weilding whatever came to hand I have no doubt on that also.. there is some anecdotal evidence that the Israeli's fired early before they were attacked.. unfortunately the video evidence is lying in a vault somewhere in Israel so we can never be entirely sure..

    Collateral damage in a struggle is inevitable because of how our societies think and act.. the collateral damage in this case is the death of far too many people and injuries to many more.. no soldiers were killed and believe it or not for that I am thankful.. and not for the reason you may believe.. I just do not believe in the taking of life under any circumstances.. but collateral damage will happen and people will get hurt.. as long as we live in an armed world it will ere be thus.. but while I will never raise my hand to any.. sometimes the cause is just too important not to act and put our lives at risk.. I have done that in my own small way.. that I will do so again is likely.. but it was not the crews and those on board who put lives at risk and certainly did not take any.. that was down to quite another party.. and go to sea? Yes I would do it Duckie.. I love a nice cruise in the sun.. but the Med is also mighty cold in winter.. I have some quite sexy winter gear for that too.. for some of us principle and belief is more important than personal safety..
    Smiles. With respect and pride.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHgVnwAfB0Y

    And to other than Fran, don't think Communism or socialism...think of a flag soaked red with the blood of the innocent, or the brave, those fighting for right, those fighting for what they believe in, those fighting and dying for their country, in wars they did not begin.
    Last edited by Canticle; Jun 6, 2010 at 8:23 PM.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  23. #233

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    When 3/4 of your posts consist of "well said" and the rest are Anti-semetic claptrap, you become less and less relevant. And, no, I am not interested in your word games. If you wish me to simply call you a racist jew hater, I can do that too.
    But, your rhetoric goes beyond simply discussing world events. You use similar phraseology and tone to those who were trying to drive anti Jew fears in the 30s.

    If I ever read you decrying racism again, I wil call you out as a hypocrite.

    Pasa

  24. #234

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl2 View Post
    I certainly hope they accept. I'd love to see the RGs get their asses handed to them. Then again, I'd love an excuse to take Iran out of the picture all together.

    Pasa

    Oh, please...how distasteful are you going to get and you claim to be a Christian. This is the sort of thing, which reads as if it is something coming from the fingers of the brainwashed.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  25. #235

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestion View Post
    Beware - Yugoslavia is not the simple story it appears.

    .
    Maybe not Heph and goodness we know that Eastern Europe has been a boiling cauldron, bubbling away and then spilling over, on many occasions, but Muslims were massacred, men were put in ''camps,'' and we have all seen film of them, stick thin, starving. There are always two sides to any argument, but massacred they were.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  26. #236

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Canticle View Post
    Oh, please...how distasteful are you going to get and you claim to be a Christian. This is the sort of thing, which reads as if it is something coming from the fingers of the brainwashed.
    What is distasteful is your racism.

    Apparently anything/body that disagrees with you is either propoganda or brainwashing. How convenient.

    Pasa

  27. #237

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl2 View Post
    When 3/4 of your posts consist of "well said" and the rest are Anti-semetic claptrap, you become less and less relevant. And, no, I am not interested in your word games. If you wish me to simply call you a racist jew hater, I can do that too.
    But, your rhetoric goes beyond simply discussing world

    \if a events. You use similar phraseology and tone to those who were trying to drive anti Jew fears in the 30s.

    If I ever read you decrying racism again, I wil call you out as a hypocrite.

    Pasa
    If a post says everything that i would have said and that I agreee with, I see no point in doing anything but agreeing with those points and my way of saying that is to post ''well said.'' Are you trying to tell me how to post?

    How dare you accuse me of being a Jew hater and of being anti-semitic (get the spelling correct) How dare you day that I use ''similar phraseology and tone to those who were driving anti Jew fears in the 30s.''

    I am no hypocrite and if Gaza was inhabited by jews and the Israeli state was called Palestine. I would be just as critical of that state. It seems to me that you are the one spouting religious and racial intolerance, by wanting to wipe Islam off the face of the earth and given the chance, you would bomb Iran out of all existence.

    You apologise to me....for if you call me anti semitic, once more, I will report you to Drew.
    Last edited by Canticle; Jun 6, 2010 at 8:59 PM.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

  28. #238

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Canticle View Post
    If a post says everything that i would have said and that I agreee with, I see no point in doing anything but agreeing with those points and my way of saying that is to post ''well said.'' Are you trying to tell me how to post?

    How dare you accuse me of being a Jew hater and of being anti-semitic (get the spelling correct) How dare you day that I use ''similar phraseology and tone to those who were driving anti Jew fears in the 30s.''

    I am no hypocrite and if Gaza was inhabited by jews and the Israeli state was called Palestine. I would be just as critical of that state. It seems to me that you are the one spouting religious and racial intolerance, by wanting to wipe Islam off the face of the earth and given the chance, you would bomb Iran out of all existence.

    You apologise to me....for if you call me anti semitic, once more, I will report you to Drew.
    You know what, I gave you a chance. You again declined to answer the question posed in post 228. So on ignore you go and you are a fine one to talk about reporting to Drew, BrotherJack. Goodbye Canticle. Ignore.

  29. #239

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    I will not. You go ahead and report me. I find your words and ideas to be distasteful and hate filled. I supprt your right to say them, however.

    You go report me to Drew. I guess when you can't dismiss people, silencing them is the next best thing, eh?

    And if you can show me where I've been racsist, yu go right ahead. Being against states that sponsor terrr isn't racsist. It's smart. I will want to see Iran defeated. I feel thay way about nations whose leadrrs call for the extermination of the Jews an the eradication of the US. Show me an Iran that isn't saying those things and it will cease to be the first country I take out when playing Risk.

    Pasa

  30. #240

    Re: Gaza Aid Convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits View Post
    You know what, I gave you a chance. You again declined to answer the question posed in post 228. So on ignore you go and you are a fine one to talk about reporting to Drew, BrotherJack. Goodbye Canticle. Ignore.
    In what way did you give ME a chance, Twyla? In what way did I decline to answer the question posed in post 228? In post 228 you were quoting Hardhubby, not me, so I would have thought that it was obvious, that your remark was addressed to him. It certainly was not addressed to me.

    My name is Canticle and like you I am straight and like you I came here because of someone I knew. I stayed and return, to talk to the people I have grown to like, not because of their sexuality, but because of who those people are. Good and kind people. It is very sad that some people decide, that what they don't want to see, or hear, they will ignore.

    I have never, in my time upon this site, called anyone terrible names, told lies, insulted beliefs, be they religious or political and I have never insulted anyone because of their sexuality or race. I have taken some people to task, as we all have the right to do, but it seems that some may consider they have more rights than others.

    Some of us disagree with you Twyla and not only with you, upon this particular subject. On other subjects, we would stand shoulder to shoulder with you.

    I am no racist. I am not anti-semitic. Am I supposed to just take being called that? I guess you think I should.

    And the crack about the name BrotherJack, was uncalled for. I never did anything wrong, when using that name, except, perhaps, word my posts, in too emotional a manner. As Canticle, a name which suits both my character and my outlook upon life, I have made sure that I word things carefully.....even if a reply is only ''well said.''

    I am disappointed by your reaction, Twyla, especially as the post you answered was not mine. However, it's not my problem. I will always answer a question, where I can. If I can't I'll say so.

    I am Queen of all felines. I'm a Lioness. A Leo


    What!!!...No coffee??? Keep the stuff in bottles, Sir! I want a real drink!


    Love, is the most important emotion in the Cosmos. Love is all.
    .

 

 

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