Article re: circumcision

[Bluebiyou]

VBScript was just trying to cause trouble. He was banned for posting a lot of rubbish, particularly hateful things (about transpeople, if I'm not getting him mixed up with someone else) just to cause trouble.

True. VBScript was just an angry kid, but his post strictly regarding circumcision was mostly on track.
A hundred years from now it will be outlawed world wide as inhumane. People then will look back on us like barbarians: "How could they have done that?". Just like we look back on parents who used to sacrifice their firstborn.

Ah, virtually the same can be said for any social advancement over social custom.
"Why should you care about the feelings of a woman? They are born as property to serve; probably die in childbirth and need replacing anyway." A very practical approach for a man 200 or more years ago.

It's always been easy to be flippant about somebody else's flesh/rights/ well being.
It's always been hard to look honestly and truthfully at one's self and say "I'm wrong." and "I need to change/grow."
This has not changed with time. We're still the same gruesome animals by nature.

[wutheringheights]

Customs don't change because people become 'better' or more enlightened. Things change both for better and worse for various political, economic, etc, etc. reasons. It may well be that circumcision will be outlawed sometime in the future. It's also possible that there will be population control measures introduced in this vastly overpopulated world (and that'd take care of the circumcision issue to, wouldn't it?). It's also possible that extensively racist regimes will come to power and people of particular ethnicities or sexualities will be persecuted... wait a minute, that's happening already.

[the mage]

Well, this one strikes with vestigial religious overtones and cultural norms being questioned, which is healthy.

Babies should not be cut, but the newest science confirms several health benefits from it. It is another choice.. or should be..

[Bisexualnewbie]

Hi there,
I'm not religious myself but I read this article and thank god almighty that I was born in England and not mutilated by some doctor on my parents wish.
Think if I were I would go over and cut my parents left hand off and see how they like half the feeling.

[gfofbiguy]

Another article about circumcision - Female Circumcision:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080803/...AMXDG7.ges0NUE

Grass-roots effort in Egypt fights 'cutting' girls
By ANNA JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer

SULTAN ZAWYIT, Egypt - In this small Nile River farming village, Maha Mohammed has started to doubt whether she should circumcise her two daughters.

A year ago, she had few qualms about female genital mutilation, the practice of cutting a girl's clitoris and sometimes other genitalia. She herself was cut two decades ago, and she fears her daughters will not find husbands otherwise.

But Mohammed also has heard that circumcision can be medically risky and emotionally painful. And a strong-willed neighbor, another woman, has been dropping by her house regularly to persuade her to say no.

"I hear that girls suffer not just physically but psychologically," the 31-year-old Mohammed said. "But I am afraid. I don't want my daughters to have uncontrollable demands for sex."

Such doubts are significant. With vigorous grass-roots campaigns and the passage of tough laws against circumcision, Egypt seems to be making a dent in this deeply ingrained practice, thousands of years old. The number of young girls circumcised is now steadily declining in a country where an estimated 96 percent of married Egyptian women have had their genitals cut.

The most recent comprehensive study predicts about 63 percent of Egyptian girls 9 years old and under will be circumcised over the next decade. The numbers are lower in urban areas like Cairo — about 40 percent — but higher for rural areas in the south — about 78 percent, the government's 2005 demographic and health survey predicts.

The lower circumcision rate in urban areas is attributed to higher income and education levels and greater access to information. But in the villages along the Nile, where the rate is highest, a grass-roots effort is under way to bring information straight to people's homes.

The door-to-door campaign to end female genital mutilation is slow and time-consuming. It publicly plays down any outside help or connections to Western aid groups.

Instead, local activists focus on convincing Egyptians, one woman, one family and one village at a time. Often they reach out to women who have turned against the practice on their own, appealing to them to approach neighbors whose daughters are between ages 8 and 11.

Fatma Mohammed Ali is one.

The 35-year-old woman suffered intense complications after being circumcised at age 13, including severe pain during childbirth. Now she regularly visits her neighbor — Mohammed — gently discouraging her from the practice and using her own family as an example.

Neither of Ali's daughters was circumcised. Both are physically "normal" and one attends university — a high achievement for a woman from this village, Ali says.

"I don't care what everyone thinks. I was really harmed, and I didn't want this for my daughters," said Ali, a proud woman who often sits with her arms crossed against her chest. "When I talk about my experience, many become convinced. They also see how my daughters are good and religious."

It's difficult to encourage village women to go public with their views on the subject, said Nevine Saad Fouad, the project manager for child protection with a group called the Better Life Association for Comprehensive Development in the nearby city of Minya.

But when village women do go public, the results are astonishing.

Of some 3,000 families targeted over the past few years in several nearby villages, more than half say they have abandoned the practice, nearly 800 are undecided and fewer than 500 say they will continue to circumcise their daughters.

The key is convincing villages that stopping circumcision is an Egyptian idea — not one imported by international aid groups or Western governments, Fouad said. The group also promotes homegrown activities such as community plays, discussions with local doctors and religious debates.

Along with local groups taking action, Egypt's government has also been discouraging the practice in recent years. The National Council for Childhood and Motherhood has developed programs to help villages declare themselves against the cutting and sponsored an influential campaign of TV commercials and billboards featuring a young Egyptian girl.

Last year, the Ministry of Health prohibited licensed medical professionals from performing the procedure, and Egypt's parliament voted in June to ban it as part of a law protecting children. But activists stress that laws alone aren't enough.

"There is a wave of change right now," said Mona Amin of the childhood and motherhood council. "But we must keep this momentum, this intensity."

The pressure to uphold the tradition in this conservative, socially close-knit nation of 80 million people remains strong.

Many women fear potential husbands will reject daughters as impure or immoral. Medical rumors — including that circumcision is the only way to control a girl's sexual desires — are rampant. Others believe that abandoning the practice is caving to Western pressures to change their society.

Female genital mutilation is practiced in Africa and the Middle East by Muslims as well as Christians

In Egypt, leaders of both religions have spoken against it, including Coptic Christian Pope Shenouda III and Egypt's Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, who issued a fatwa against it in 2007. But others, especially some local Muslim leaders, continue to give their blessing.

Egyptians also receive mixed messages from midwives and some doctors, Fouad said. Some doctors, midwives and even barbers make home visits, giving circumcision sales pitches — just to make money off the $10 for an operation, Fouad believes.

For now, for every mother who agrees not to circumcise her daughters, many others still go ahead, activists say — women like Samia Ali Taha, who lives in the same village as Ali and Mohammed.

Taha is convinced she must circumcise her daughter a year from now, in the summer after the girl finishes sixth grade. She feels that way despite visits from another woman neighbor who has told her that the medical rumors — including that a woman's clitoris will grow if not cut — are false.

"It's not an option. We can't have it otherwise," said Taha, 32. "It is something we have grown up with and our ancestors have done."

But at a nearby house, sitting with a 6-year-old daughter cradled in her lap, Mohammed says she is slowly being convinced the other way.

"Maybe I am 70 percent for not doing it. Part of my change of heart is talking with Fatma and others," Mohammed said.

The young mother hesitates. "But I am still confused," she says.

___

Associated Press Writer Pakinam Amer contributed to this report.

[coyotedude]

Coyotedude..you should have left this one alone....it only brings out the subtle...and not so subtle forms of bigotry that still exists today.

Decisions about circumcision face all parents of young boys, not just those who belong to religious and cultural traditions (such as Judaism) with thousands of years of history and belief about this practice. It is not anti-Semitic for me, as the father of a young boy, to ask whether circumcision is an appropriate choice to make for my son. And it is wholly appropriate for me to ask others who have faced this same decision for their perspectives and experiences - and to share my own perspective and experience with others in turn. In that sense, I respectfully disagree with your assertion above.

That doesn't mean that I am unaware of how sensitive this topic may be for Jews (and others with similar religious traditions). And indeed, there is most certainly reason to be sensitive - exhibit A being the appalling anti-Semitism displayed by certain individuals in this thread.

Whatever one's position on circumcision may be, there is no reason to stoop to such ugly and hateful remarks as I have read in these posts. While I do not believe in censorship, I have no problem in calling such remarks ignorant and disgusting. Such bigoted rubbish is needlessly hurtful and detracts from thoughtful and meaningful discussion. I for one utterly reject this line of unthinking fanaticism.

I certainly expected heated discussion and strong feeling with this topic. But I also expected us all to act like adults. We can have strong opinions and still be respectful of one another as human beings. None of us are perfect; none of us have all the answers to life's nagging questions. None of us have any reason to put ourselves on a pedestal above others with whom we may disagree on any given issue.

By the way, I am quite well aware that bigotry is alive and well in 2008. And not just in the form of anti-Semitism, either. Racism, sexism, homophobia, bias against all non-Christian religious traditions - all these continue to raise their ugly heads, their insidious cancer spreading from older generations to newer. Indeed, one would think that as bisexuals, we would be less inclined to bigotry, given that we ourselves can suffer from the corrosive attitudes of many straights and even some gays. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case.

Peace

[darkeyes]

Hav railed bout male circumcison before... not gonna this time..jus seems sensible 2 me that wen guys r old an mature enuff 2 decide for themselves they want ther knob mutilated...then fine.. go ahead... until then..they shud b left foreskin an all in 1 piece unless an until ther is a justifiable medical reason 2 remove it. Ne thin else is..soz 2 say a grievous assault on a minor.. an ther shud b appropriate measures in law 2 prevent it an punish those responsible.

Jus don get me started on female circumcision.... ther me cud rail foreva... so for now..me hold me tongue for now cos think ther is much more of a concensus on this among us all...

[rissababynta]

A comment on sensitivity...I don't know many guys who have a huge problem getting off once they get going, cut or un-cut, whatEVER!

A comment on female circumcision...if you are all referring to the full circumcision and not the partial, I really don't know where you are coming from because it's the same thing as cutting off the tip of yor dick, wich is NOT what happens during a male circumcision. Cutting off just the clit hood is the equivelant of a male circumcision, not cutting off the whole clit.


Anyway, on to the REAL bitchy part of this post...


No offense, but...


VBScript, you are just as fucked up as the anti-abortionists who proudly wave "aborted fetus'" around clinics because you can't think of a better way to push your opinion on people other than "shock".


This may be the hormones talking, but seriously, fuck that fuckin shit. And fuck anyone who actually thinks that that picture bullshit was a good idea.


I hope Drew deletes this post because my hormones will calm down and probably make me feel regretful of this post in the morning.

But til then, i say fuck it. Maybe I feel like being insulting for once damn it.


And, yes, I'm aware of VBScripts banning, but I still felt like yelling at him...

[coyotedude]

Anyway, on to the REAL bitchy part of this post...

Rissa, I'd really rather not fuck him at all, if you don't mind!

But seriously, hope you and your hormones feel better soon. Until then, I am sending thoughts of chocolate your way....

[Bluebiyou]

A comment on sensitivity...I don't know many guys who have a huge problem getting off once they get going, cut or un-cut, whatEVER!

rissababynta
Let's presume you are unmutilated, that you feel 100% of the vaginal feelings you were born with/into.
Then enter a male; a male who confidently says "I don't know about women who have a problem about being circumcised, as as least half of the nerve endings exist up in the vagina around the cervix, whatEVER!"

In both cases, it's easy to be indifferent about something different from yourself.

A comment on female circumcision...if you are all referring to the full circumcision and not the partial, I really don't know where you are coming from because it's the same thing as cutting off the tip of yor dick, wich is NOT what happens during a male circumcision. Cutting off just the clit hood is the equivelant of a male circumcision, not cutting off the whole clit.

... and what is your proof?
This leads back to a well established philosophical debate "my pain is worse than your pain".
Perhaps a better comparison would be involuntary mutilation of a man's 'most important' member', his penis; to involuntary mutilation of a woman's 'most important' member, her face.

This may be the hormones talking, but seriously, fuck that fuckin shit. And fuck anyone who actually thinks that that picture bullshit was a good idea.

Why do you have a problem with the pictures? Do you believe they are faked? Photoshopped?
Do you react the same way to photos of WWII concentration camps?
If so, you are a sensitive person. Certainly you did not allow circumcision your male children because you ARE so empathetic. My congratulations.

Parents who have mutilated their children (male or female) are unlikely to change because facing absolute reality (like those pictures displayed) is more painful than blindly holding to "we did what's right". (this is called neurosis in psychological terms).

Proof of this is simple. Those of you who have done this to your children, offer them twice the penile feeling... upon their 18th birthday. That upon their whim (not unlike the whim to destroy) you will create 12-15 square inches of the most evolutionarily advanced skin on the human body.. that you will reconnect the hundreds/thousands of neural paths, veins, arteries... as good as if they had never been destroyed. In addition you will make sure that the new foreskin is 100% functional and cosmetically perfect......... I don't think the leading doctor in the world can lie that well....

And, yes, I'm aware of VBScripts banning, but I still felt like yelling at him...

For good reason.
VBScript's post IS shocking.
VBScript is our troll.
And while I don't usually agree with him in his unrelenting anger...
His anti-circumcision posts are well researched and very correct.
...and his comments relating Nazi treatment of Jews to Jewish treatment of Palestinians (Philistines) is, while not entirely untrue, but greatly exaggerated. Palestinians better equate to the second class citizenry of black americans of the 1960's.

And to you, Darkeyes, rest assured I maintain that neither male or female should be harmed physically, or psychologically. All are sacred! Free will over custom mutilation!

[rissababynta]

[QUOTE=Bluebiyou;109029]rissababynta


Why do you have a problem with the pictures? Do you believe they are faked? Photoshopped?
QUOTE]

i'm not a professional and don't know either way if they are or not, but like i said i have a problem with the pictures because i think it is pathetic when people have to start throwing images of things out of pure shock value because that is the best way that they can think of to push their opinion on someone.

[rissababynta]

But seriously, hope you and your hormones feel better soon. Until then, I am sending thoughts of chocolate your way....

chocolate....*drools a little*

[Bluebiyou]

i'm not a professional and don't know either way if they are or not, but like i said i have a problem with the pictures because i think it is pathetic when people have to start throwing images of things out of pure shock value because that is the best way that they can think of to push their opinion on someone.

I can very much appreciate the fact that the photos are shocking.
If the photos had been inserted in a random thread, then yes, they'd be inappropriate.
But, this IS a thread about circumcision, which is NOT a pretty, petty, or impersonal thing.
Circumcision is socially presented, because of the barbarity of our culture, as mild as a selection between vanilla, chocolate, or strawberry. Circumcised or uncircumcised?
There are those of us who are unafraid of social rejection by standing up against this child molestation.
Think of the suffragettes. They worked upon the absurd notion of the worth of women and that women actually had 'rights'. They believed that a married woman could actually be 'raped' by her husband! How could a woman, giving herself in matrimony be 'raped' by her husband who loves and provides for her? The very concept is absurd!
Likewise, how can loving parents harm their children by choosing circumcision for their son or daughter? It's a parental 'choice' and circumcision is always the healthy choice for boys and girls, but still a parents 'right' (do you want that baby with vanilla chocolate, strawberry, or mutilated?).

If you do this to your child, take responsibility:
1. do this to yourself first. Mother and father; repeat the operation if it was already done to you (without pain medication, just like the baby).
2. Have the guts to watch your handiwork. Don't 'disguise' it with ceremony, or hide yourself from the brutal reality. Watch your baby scream.
3. Make sure you're ready to play God twice. You're willing to destroy... that's playing God once... years later, when the child reaches adulthood, offer to restore - as good as or better than original - the damage you willed upon them. Create and reattach the perfect flesh you flippantly destroyed.

I stand resolutely (and often alone) against the willfully ignorant harming the innocent... it takes a lot of energy to keep fighting for the good cause...
As far as racism...
Islam should categorically reject female circumcision.
Judaism should categorically reject male circumcision.
any other choice is immoral.

[rissababynta]

no offense but i find it hard to read your posts blue because you tend to kind of go off and i get bored easily. sorry :-( i think what you just posted is basically the same thing you have posted before in this thread, which if you choose to do it by all means...but I think that I'll just move on.

and by the way, as long as I can still cum I would have no problem cutting my clit hood off, I DID watch it be performed on my son WITH numbing ointment and he did NOT scream, and as for playing God, I hope you are against things such as braces as well because the are by no means natural, they are not the most comfortable things in the world because it is the literal shifting of bone and many times it is done simply for cosmetic reasons...

[Bluebiyou]

Braces do not destroy. Weak analogy. Even when I got braces, the doctor asked my permission to proceed.
Sometimes, infants only days old, do not know the 'proper' reaction to hideous trauma (as evidenced by the fact that they seldom write their congressman).
Have you studied the common reaction of a 3 day old to a traumatic car accident?
Did you do it (circumcision) to yourself first?...
Only a true leader would...
Why don't you run out and circumcise your face? Imagine the beauty of freedom from mouth cancer! Vanilla and chocolate. Try destroying some of your flesh you've learned to value... for a needless whim.

Yes, yes, very hateful and challenging.

Better yet, and most importantly. Are you ready to offer your child complete reparation of what you intentionally inflicted?
Can you create 12 -15 square inches of the most evolutionarily advanced flesh and add it perfectly... upon his request? Of course you can't, you can only destroy.

Try betraying everything you know and understand, ... and create and add to his life/penis. Really create and add... real flesh.

I know this is savage. To some extent I am truly sorry. To another... you chose this... not your child. You owe it to your child to educate him (them) in what you really destroyed (informed consent means you tell him the REAL loss). Telling a child that they've lost 1/2 their sexual feeling before they've matured sexually... is another move in neurosis...
But I'm sure you... and many others... will have no problem in the neurosis continuum. It is very hard to rise above common evil.

[rissababynta]

Braces do not destroy. Weak analogy. Even when I got braces, the doctor asked my permission to proceed.
Sometimes, infants only days old, do not know the 'proper' reaction to hideous trauma (as evidenced by the fact that they seldom write their congressman).
Have you studied the common reaction of a 3 day old to a traumatic car accident?
Did you do it (circumcision) to yourself first?...
Only a true leader would...
Why don't you run out and circumcise your face? Imagine the beauty of freedom from mouth cancer! Vanilla and chocolate. Try destroying some of your flesh you've learned to value... for a needless whim.

Yes, yes, very hateful and challenging.

Better yet, and most importantly. Are you ready to offer your child complete reparation of what you intentionally inflicted?
Can you create 12 -15 square inches of the most evolutionarily advanced flesh and add it perfectly... upon his request? Of course you can't, you can only destroy.

Try betraying everything you know and understand, ... and create and add to his life/penis. Really create and add... real flesh.

I know this is savage. To some extent I am truly sorry. To another... you chose this... not your child. You owe it to your child to educate him (them) in what you really destroyed (informed consent means you tell him the REAL loss). Telling a child that they've lost 1/2 their sexual feeling before they've matured sexually... is another move in neurosis...
But I'm sure you... and many others... will have no problem in the neurosis continuum. It is very hard to rise above common evil.

wow, i would never have guessed that you were gonna write a book in response not for nothing, i know many circumcised men who would by no means consider their penis' "destroyed".

In the end though, I come to realize today that sitting here arguing, or debating, or whatever you want to call it, is a total waste of my time considering that this is all matter of OPINION...especially when people choose to voice their opinions as total fact.

I'm just not that passionate about other people's opinions to care to spend much time on this I guess. After all, I am usually a follower of my own rule "have your opinion and be respectful of other people's" which I am from this point on going to follow in this thread, and from this point on I'm sure I will continue to see many choose to take another path....ahem...

[coyotedude]

chocolate....*drools a little*

So here's the question: milk, dark, or white?

tee hee hee

[rissababynta]

So here's the question: milk, dark, or white?

tee hee hee

hate dark and so so on white...absolutely LOOOVE milk haha. My favorite is Dove milk chocolate...*plans to run out to get some now*

[coyotedude]

3. Make sure you're ready to play God twice.

Um... I may very well be wrong, but this statement makes me guess you're not a parent. If you were a parent, you'd know that one of the hardest parts of the job is that you have to play God all the time when your kids are young.

As a parent of young children, it falls on you to make all sorts of decisions affecting your kids. Are we fucking up our son if we have him circumcised? Are we fucking up our son if we don't have him circumcised? Hell, how about vaccines? Are we dooming our children to autism if we have them vaccinated - or are we dooming them to illness and potential death if we don't? Are we protecting our kids' teeth when we given them fluoride, or are we poisoning them? Do our kids spend too much time in daycare - or are we stunting their social development if they don't spend enough time in daycare? The list is endless.

And guess what? We as parents don't always make the right choices. Sometimes we just fuck up, plain and simple. Every single one of us. The only saving grace is that kids by and large are amazingly resilient. As long as we keep our fuck-ups to a minimum, they usually grow up just fine, despite our best efforts!

That's one reason that I don't condemn parents who circumcise their sons, even though my wife and I chose not to circumcise our own son when we adopted him 3 years ago. In the large scheme of life, (male) circumcision is pretty damn low on my list of great evils. Personally, I see little benefit to the procedure, particularly given the costs to the poor little guys. But I'm a little more concerned about things like kids going hungry at night, or kids getting the shit beat out of them by people who should never have been parents in the first place, or kids caught in the crossfire of stupid fucking wars between stupid fucking adult morons. (And by that I do not mean to criticize American soldiers, most of whom are not morons and most of whom try their damnedest to do right even in a war zone; but rather the morons in government who put American soldiers into that unenviable position in the first place.)

Being circumcised myself, I've managed to live a pretty good life thus far. I have a loving family, a good job where I enjoy the respect of my peers, a nice home, and enough financial resources to share with those who are less fortunate than myself yet still have a little bit of fun on occasion. And while I may not have the same sensitivity during sex that I would with a foreskin, I still have no complaints in the orgasm department.

Would I like my foreskin back? It might be nice, but I'd rather have world peace.

Speaking of which.... peace

[coyotedude]

hate dark and so so on white...absolutely LOOOVE milk haha. My favorite is Dove milk chocolate...*plans to run out to get some now*

Aiigh! I am so disappointed in you! Dark chocolate rules!!!!!!

Oh, well, I'll still be your friend.....

Peace, love, and chocolate

[mrarnie]

HI, new to the forum but have to say something on this one. I started restoring my foreskin 2 couple of years ago. (one of thousands of men in the process in this country now) I was cut at birth and always felt that they had no moral right to take a part of my body for any reason religious, laziness, to look like daddy or any other. The process keeps things covered and has lead to more skin and more sensitivity. The increased pleasure keeps me wondering how much more would have been available if I had the thousands of nerve endings that were lost and not restorable. Time to get off my soap, box but if sex were just about "getting off" as was stated earlier then I guess it would not matter.

But for me more is better in many ways.....

[mikey3000]

I am cut, and have been with others who are cut, and no one has any issues with it at all. Now you go into any young man's apartment or dormatory room and just see how clean it is. What makes you think they'd take any better care of themselves?

Plus the astounding evidence that it does help prevent the spread of STIs.

[darkeyes]

I am cut, and have been with others who are cut, and no one has any issues with it at all.

Plus the astounding evidence that it does help prevent the spread of STIs.

Ya r as ya r.. tho ya prob didn hav ne choice in 1st place.. removin me breasts helps me avoid breast cancer but am buggad if me is gonna do it... an as it happens.. hav had breast cancer an it scares the poop outa me that sumday it mite recur.. but me tidgies stay...

..an if me membas correctly.. wen me dabbled wiv the lesser mortal, me had more fun wiv guys who wer cavalier than me eva did wiv a roundhead.. not that me misses eitha lemme say..an mos wimmen me knos feel jus the same..but then..thats 'ere innit? If more a ya...cavalier or roundhead looked afta ya bloody personal hygiene then mayb that wud do summat bout cuttin sti's an all..

[shybipinay]

Gee, we hardly know where to begin. First, thanks to coyotedude for expressing the parental role so well.

My husband is circumcised and he has no complaints about it. He does not feel he lost 50% of his sexual sensitivity. He said, if he did, good thing, because with 50% more sensitivity, he would always cum too soon.

We had our son circumcised in the first week after his birth - highly recommended rather than waiting until later in life, like when he is old enough to decide for himself. To do it when the child is older or even an adult, apparently is far more painful and takes longer to heal. There are 2 methods for male circumcision. One is plasti-bell and the other which is rare, is the mogen-clamp technique, done by a Jewish Doctor (Pollock) in New Westminster BC. My husband is familiar with both methods and the latter is far less painful, traumatizing and/or risky. Our son slept thru the whole procedure. The plasti-bell method is definitely more painful and not nearly as neat or quick. See the following link:

http://www.pollockclinics.com/circumcision/quick.html

For all those who believe in uncut cock, sorry, we believe different and for alot of reasons including the unclean and disease spreading reasons. If we had the chance to do it over again, we would without hesitation. We don't see that he is suffering any trauma or other ailment as a result of our decision. Besides, neither my husband or I have any compulsion to suck an uncut cock. We've seen pics and they are just plain ugly. So, for the women/men of our son's future, they have a nice looking cock to suck that will be clean and disease free and likely just as sensitive as Dad's.

For more information, we suggest you contact Dr. Pollock directly. He is a great doctor and very easy to talk with. Contact him here:

http://www.pollockclinics.com/circum...locations.html

drneil@pollockclinics.com

[rissababynta]

OH get the FUCK OVER IT! *rips out hair*

If you are for it...good for you. If you area against it...good for you too.

If you think that one is nastier than the other, then stay away from it. Otherwise, quit your bitching and move on with your life!

[Realist]

I wish I had never been circumcised.

I've only had one lover who hadn't been cut, but if you've ever given a hand job to one who's uncut you'd know how much longer a stroke you can make. Cut men, like me, can experience a painful situation, when you pull the skin too hard and stretch it.

My lover was fastidiously clean and I never detected any foul odor, or taste.

I can see where cleanliness might take more effort, but I can't see that it'd be a problem. I wish I had been given the option of keeping it, or not....instead of having that decision made for me.

[shybipinay]

Quit spamming your quack of a doctor.

He's hardly a quack. At least we made an effort to make an informed decision and didn't trash others for their beliefs in the process as you are doing here. You have no right to tell me what I can post or not. Look to your own posts before you criticize the content of someone else's post. Some people may actually find those links informative. It's obvious you don't and will refuse to even look.

Lasting longer during sex is not related to circumcision or getting your penis mutilated based on pointless aesthetic reasons like you did or by religion.

But you related it that way by saying an uncut man lasts longer. you just contradicted yourself. Busted!!

It's been proven that men who are intact with a foreskin last longer since they have complete control over their penis and get stimulated in ways during sex that men who are cut are just jealous of and can't even imagine or comprehend.

Prove it other than to state your own personal agenda! My husband can last upwards of an hour or more. It's called technique and practice. To each his own. Some men last long, others don't. He's hardly jealous of any uncut man. Maybe some, like you, are jealous of other men for whatever reason.

If you had actually cared about your son you would have left his penis intact with a foreskin and not had it mutilated just for shallow and asthetic reasons that you did just so he'd look like his dad.

If you believe that, then contact the Ministry of Children and Families where I live and tell them we abused our child. BTW, the Ministry manager of our local office is also our next door neighbour. I'm sure you'll get a long way with her. You'd better read our post again. This was not just to have son look like Dad.

I hope one day your son gets angry at you and is mad that he did not have the choice to remain intact and decide if he wants to keep his foreskin or not with his own free will and not something that you as misinformed parents decided for him.

He won't get angry just as my husband is not angry at his parents because we will talk with him and educate him. He will understand that to have the procedure at the age of an adult, where presumably he can make his own decisions, could prove detrimental to his health as the research we studied revealed. Not to mention the level of pain is far greater having it done at an adult age and the healing time is much longer.

Cut penises can be ugly too and have all sorts of defects and there are men who have had most or all of their cock removed during routine infant male genital mutilation or circumcision.

The key words there are "can be". What percentage of men are we talking about here? What method was used? We listed 2 and I bet a switch blade could be number 3 and the cause of the defects and mutilations. Get me?

I've been with men who are cut and they have little to no sensitivity in their penis and it's only after manually stretching their remaining foreskin if they have it that they regained some penile pleasure.

Awwwwww..........you must be pretty lousy in bed. We feel sorry for you that you can't arouse your cut men so well.

Then there are the nasty and ugly scars from circumcision that are always going to be there and a penis that is cut does lose both the length and circumference that it would have had more of if it had been left alone and kept intact with a foreskin.

What ugly scars? My boys don't have any. My husband is just big enough for me. Anything bigger would hurt.

Circumcision is not some magic bullet that prevents someone from getting STDs and using condoms and safer sex techniques actually work a lot better than genital mutilation does. Even condoms are not 100% guaranteed to prevent STDs

Never said it was a magic bullet. Maybe just a good deterrent (spelling?). Not everyone can use condoms.

All of the men I know who are HIV+ or have had or have an STD are cut. If male genital mutilation were that effective at preventing HIV and STDs thousands of men in America would not have gotten STDs or HIV when safer sex was not known about.

You must not know very many men. Never said it was totally effective at preventing HIV or STD's. Maybe they shouldn't be bare backing. I'll bet you don't even know the root cause of HIV. Read a book called the "Medical Mafia" by Doctor Guylaine Lanctot. The answer will surprise you. I'll give you a hint:

Acquired Immune Deficiency

Most of the men in my age group grew up at a time when circumcision was done without even parental permission.

So?

Most of my contemporaries now dead from HIV complications were circumcised. Most older men in my age group now fighting HIV or other STDs are circumcised.

Again, you don't know many men do you?

Research has shown that a penis that is intact is actually more "clean" than a penis that is cut.

Just how skewed/biased is this research. You talk loud about it, but provide no facts, evidence or other proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We at least provided a link to a healthier circumcision option. Did we do a bad thing?

It's very easy to keep a penis with a foreskin clean you just wash with soap and water like you should do with any other part of your body.

We understand it is a little more than that for uncut cocks. Check your facts and get back to us.

Your doctor is lying to you that your son "slept" as when male genital mutilation is done to infant boys they pass out from the pain and that is what he is describing as "sleep".

I guess our eyes were lying to us also as he was asleep when we brought him in to the doctor's office. I guees our eyes were lying to us as we watched the procedure just inches away from the doctor. Call it "circumcision" instead of continuing the fear factor with your "mutilation" terminology. We're not afraid of you no matter what you say.

If you actually really cared about your son and about his penis and sexual health you would have left him intact like he is supposed to be.

Did you ever stop to think that parents who do opt for circumcision do care about their child and his over all health in post puberty years? Where is it written that he is supposed to remain intact? Show us the law and then call the cops.

Cut penises are just ugly, mutilated, and damaged and they have a major part missing that's fun for men and women to play with the foreskin!Circumcision is a crime against humanity.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Trying to shove it down my throat (pun intended) as you have blatantly done here has us reaching for the "iggy" button.

[shybipinay]

I hope one day your son gets angry at you and is mad that he did not have the choice to remain intact and decide if he wants to keep his foreskin or not with his own free will and not something that you as misinformed parents decided for him.

I forgot one very important comment. The second you wished ill will towards my son and family, your argument and indeed your very character and personality lost all respect and credibility with us.

[jem_is_bi]

Don't forget that the length and width of the penis are made smaller and decreased by circumcision too!

Maybe true, my present partner has his foreskin and is really really big.
I am cut and not so big. Could genetics be an issue too?

But, neither of us is unhappy about the skin or lack of it. Penile sensitivity? He is not so easy to bring to climax as me. But, that means I can have as much fun as I want before I make him cum. I know I should be harder to please because I am cut, but when he sucks me it feels soo good.
For sure, he definitely needs to get it clean before sex or it stinks, smells and tastes like dead fish. So, he always gets a shower just before sex with me. Me, I do not have that problem but I always get very clean for him.
So, I am happy that I am cut and he is not cut and would be just as happy with all other combinations of cut and not cut. Mutilation? My dick is looking good to me and him. So, I do not feel that way at all.

[bicurcple]

the idea that a mutilated penis is somehow "cleaner" when it's not, and circumcision of men and women should be outlawed STDs.

"Mutilated" is a bad choice of words, circumcision has been around a long...long..time. It is cleaner and for it to be outlawed is ridiculous, are we living in the 1900's Soviet Union. It is all personal preference. You may not like it but to have that kind of closed mind is what should be outlawed.