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  1. #1

    What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Today, I received a a message through my website from another married, bi guy. He suggested that I should be more specific in my definition of myself as a bisexual. At first, I wasn't sure what he meant by that.

    His implication was that I needed to grade my sexual orientation -- something like 60% homo and 40% hetero. Is that fine a line absolutely necessary? I mean, really, these things fluctuate from year to year, from moment to moment. Sometimes I long for cock. Sometimes, I'm hot for pussy. Is there something wrong with having it all average out at 50/50? My theory is that we are all born bi (with certain native tendencies), but that culture and our environment condition us to pick one or the other.

    Why is it that everyone (even other bisexuals) needs to categorize everything in neatly definable packages?

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    The human brain is fundamentally a pattern recognition machine. Nice tight labels are generally more psychologically satisfying as a result.

  3. #3

    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    It's kind of like religion, or music genres. You have to either be Baptist or Catholic, Sunni or Sheite, adhering to one doctrine or the other. "Searching" is not good enough for most people, even tho that is often the most-accurate description of all.

    Well, I love country music, but Green Day and Lady Gaga are great, too. Wait a minute, this ain't a sampler plate! Well, yes it is, as a matter of fact. Enjoy it all. Why limit yourself to vanilla, when there is moca, peach, chocolate, and endless array of splendid flavors to enjoy?

    "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" What a krock!!!!

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Although I am all for clear definitions, I kind of like the word "fluid". That pretty much means that you can not really tie the bisexual to a narrow definition ....doesn't it?

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    I think that only YOU can define you! Don't let anyone else put you in a category, or make decisions for you.

    If you're like most of us, we kinda swing back and forth, from one percentage to another.

    Like someone else said, during one of these conversations, "Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't"!

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Labels can be useful. They enable us to process things quickly. If I tell you I have a car, that saves tons of time explaining what I have.

    I do not think many people truly understand the bisexual label. I have often encountered some who think the bisexual label only applies to those who have had actual experience. If you have only thought about it, you are required to be classified as bicurious. I'm here to tell you that is incorrect. We are defined by our intent, not what we actually do. If we followed this experience logic, then no one has any sexuality before they have actual sex.

    It is intent that defines us, not experience.

    Further to this confusion is that those with certain sexual preferences may engage in sex outside that definition. A gay guy may engage in sex with a woman. Or a hetero may have an encounter with someone of the same sex.

    The best that we can do with these labels is understand that they define a preference. It does not mean the person is necessarily confined to that label. What this means is that the labels can only be applied to a person by the person themselves.

    Now that we got the labels in their place, let me talk about bisexuals.

    It is clear that bisexuals fluctuate in their desire for sex with the same or opposite sex. This is a common characteristic of bisexuals. It is therefore difficult for a bisexual to put themselves into a percentage. If you feel comfortable doing that. Go ahead. But never let someone else tell you that they want to adjust your label on yourself.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    ...as i have said in other posts; people just adhore labels, i can only guess that if helps keep what ever they have for brains, in some kind of order;

    best just to ignore such narrow minded peeps, not worth the effort!
    get in! sit down! hold on! and shut up!

  8. #8

    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by danreidbarmi View Post
    Why is it that everyone (even other bisexuals) needs to categorize everything in neatly definable packages?
    As the others said before, the brain is a pattern recognition machine, but best is you label yourself (if at all) and don't let others label you.

    I'm not sure using percentages or a Kinsey scale is the most useful tool here though, as these numbers don't take into account that some bis are sexually attracted to both sexes but romantically only to one etc.

    Then there's also people such as a close friend of mine where labeling or self-labeling just doesn't work. She is way more attracted to women than to men, says she's more lesbian than bi, but usually ends up in relationships with guys. Women are too difficult too understand for her in general, she is incompatible to the lesbian scene which makes finding girls for dating difficult, and it is much easier for her to find compatible guys for her favorite kinks & fetishes than girls. All this self-labeling gets even more twisted as she is more a guy in her mind than a girl (she told me this, and her brain is really hard-wired like that of a guy - she accepts female pronouns though so I'll stick to them here). The only "woman" who ever thought like her and who she understood was the author Pat Califia, she told me 12 years ago, and this has not changed yet. The other day, I told her with a grin that Pat's become Patrick now and she was like - okay, now I know why.

    She complained to me one year ago that it's the first time now she's dating a guy who she actually finds sexually attractive (bi guy by the way) and that therefore, her labels just don't work at all any more, which gave her a kind of identity crisis. I said forget about labels, enjoy yourself with Alex, just call yourself "queer" if you want, and otherwise describe what that means in your case.

    And whenever I'm single and I've had a bad dispute with one of my friends, anyone of that sex becomes quite unattractive for me for a couple of weeks (last dispute was particularly awful and the effect has been lasting for about 2 months now). Guess I could categorize my sexuality as "bi, close-minded and resentful" for that reason, but it does not sound flattering at all and I don't have disputes very often anyway.
    Last edited by Robinium; Aug 25, 2010 at 2:16 AM.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Well not that anything I add will be of any more significance than what has already been offered. I suppose that labels are necessary. I mean, I've identified myself as being bi now by accepting my appetites for both. I don't care for labels either, but on the other hand, sometimes naming something can be empowering. But all in all and in essence, I, like everyone else am a sexual creature....with my desires, be they for the same or opposite sex. And yes, like so many have already said, there are times I am desiring a woman and other times a man...and then sometimes both at the same time. What does bisexual mean indeed?.....I think what we're comfortable with in defining ourselves works best as long as we're accurate....but again, it would be nice to do without labels. In the meantime..............

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by danreidbarmi View Post
    Today, I received a a message through my website from another married, bi guy. He suggested that I should be more specific in my definition of myself as a bisexual.
    His implication was that I needed to grade my sexual orientation -- something like 60% homo and 40% hetero.
    Being the guy who sent him the message, perhaps I should clarify my intent:

    First, I thought his sexual preferences regarding guys vs. gals might be of interest to readers of a blog Dan has. Especially in reference to a post he made where someone asked him the age old question, "Don't you think you might be gay?", or some such.

    It might be illustrative to someone asking such a question to show how fluid one's sexuality might have been over a lifetime, as long time readers of this forum have discussed before.

    The percentages could be irrelevant to some, I suppose, but I find them of interest myself. Of course, sexual preference isn't always easy to quantify. I simply explained to Dan that, in my twenties, I was probably equally divided in interest between men and women- perhaps 50-50. Maybe even 60% towards men back then, though my homosexual desires were supressed back in the 80s so I didn't realize how queer I really was. My homosexual desires often came out just when I'd been drinking.

    Fast forward to today where my sexual interest is nearly 100% in men- sober, or not- although I might be able to claim 90/10 since I do still find women sexually attractive. I suppose I could say 5 to 10% of my sexual interest is directed toward women now.

    Anyway, we've been through this before in this forum. Just thought I'd try and explain. I still think it's a good idea, assuming someone can put their thoughts together well, to explain to non- believers how bisexuals might feel in regards men vs. women and let them know that, with most of us, our sexuality is fluid over time.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredtyg View Post
    The percentages could be irrelevant to some, I suppose, but I find them of interest myself. Of course, sexual preference isn't always easy to quantify. I simply explained to Dan that, in my twenties, I was probably equally divided in interest between men and women- perhaps 50-50. Maybe even 60% towards men back then, though my homosexual desires were supressed back in the 80s so I didn't realize how queer I really was. My homosexual desires often came out just when I'd been drinking.
    The problem with percentages is that most people tend to view them as an indication of interest,not activity. The fluidity comes primarily from the activity. While I classify myself as 50/50, being equally comfortable with both sexes, circumstances over time have caused a variance in actual activity.

    While my wife, who was bisexual, was still alive, the majority of my activity was with her (probably 70%), her and another woman (maybe 15%), or her and another man (15%). I still classified myself as 50/50.

    Today, as a widower, still advancing in age, the opportunities and available partners seem to have changed and I find my activity is now about 40% with males, 30% with women, and 30% with couples (either M/F or M/M). I would still classify myself as 50/50.

    Then, of course, you have a variance of activities with individual partners. If a man and woman enjoy strap-on activity does that change the classification? What if he sucks the strap-on as well? Is a female couple who engages only in oral activity classified differently that a female couple who uses toys?

    Gay sites are beginning to provide alternative selections. Are you a top, bottom, or versatile with oral activity and/or anal activity.

    The problem with all the classification BS is that it just furnishes a check list for easy rejection as opposed to an environment that encourages people to have actual communication with others to establish common grounds. While I might enjoy an activity that someone else does not, it should not give me reason to reject them. If we communicate and hit it off on another level, we can still enjoy those activities we both enjoy.

    There is a tendency to seek only the perfect match rather than an overall enjoyable liaison that includes some social communication instead of just jumping in bed and leaving after you are satisfied. The "Wham, Bam, Thank You Mam" quickie seems to be becoming more prevalent. I for one, try to avoid it because it diminishes the ability to communicate with each other and develop more ongoing relationships. Once you find that you like being with the person as a total individual, you are more apt to try those things that were not part of your original classification.

    The "What do you like?" chat room question to me receives a response that I like to ensure that both parties find satisfaction from the liaison, rather than a recitation of the list of things I would desire if I was thinking only of myself. Perhaps that is because after over 40 years of being bisexual, there are very few activities I don't enjoy and even fewer I will absolutely not participate in.

    Once this type of communication is opened, the possibilities of liaisons expands. The straight man can realize he should not be threatened by a bisexual man who can forgo M2M activity in a 3 some with his lady. Alternatively, one can have a good time with the couple where the man is bisexual and everything is OK except the other man having intercourse with the lady. I have even had the opportunity to have some great experiences with lesbian couples who enjoy oral activity but not intercourse and a few who like to receive oral from a man but have no desire to touch him below the waist.

    For myself, I find seeking the satisfaction of others much more enjoyable than a particular set of activities which I might selfishly enjoy the most. I would rather dispense with classifications and instead expand communication.
    The hardest part is not finding out who we need to be, it is being content with who we are.

  12. #12

    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Sorry to hang you out to dry, Fred. I was just curious as to whether that type of delineation was common, and I just wasn't getting it. I had never thought in those terms, only that I was very sexual and equally attracted to men and women.

    I have, however, thought in terms of whether I was capable of getting romantically involved with a man. While, long ago, I had male relationships that bordered on romantic love, I've never lived with a man as a couple for more than a few days. And, since I've been married (to three consecutive women) all of my adult life, I could never imagine having the same feelings for a guy that I've had for women -- until everything changed.

    At a convention just a couple of months ago, I picked out a guy at the bar who seemed a likely candidate (he was reading his Kindle, drinking Sambuca). Sure enough, after several more rounds (I was drinking vodka), and some intelligent, sometimes combative conversation, we found ourselves in his room. Moments later, we were naked. The chemistry was hot, and our love play got very emotional for me. I found myself feeling things I'd never felt before with another man. That was when I finally knew that I was bi, not just curious, not just ultra-sexual -- but actually BI-sexual. That was when I decided I couldn't wait much longer to come out to my wife. Because, now there's a chance that I might just get emotionally involved with another man. If that happened, an already very unfair and extremely hurtful situation would be even more painful for her.

    I love her. I don't want to lose her. I would rather die than hurt her. (Believe me, I've considered that option -- but, me ending my life would be even more excruciating for her than me finally 'fessin' up.) She lost her father when she was three. I even look like him. Oh, what a tangled web we weave.

    Btw, Fred, these days I'm much more gay than straight. But, I still drool when I see a well-constructed, female derriere swing back and forth. And I haven't been with another woman other than my wife since we first started dating.

    Bless me, Father, for I have sucked cock and not told my wife of my transgressions. Heaven have mercy on this closeted, married, stupid, compulsive, bisexual man. I'm gonna need all the forgiveness I can get.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by danreidbarmi View Post
    Sorry to hang you out to dry, Fred. I was just curious as to whether that type of delineation was common, and I just wasn't getting it. I had never thought in those terms, only that I was very sexual and equally attracted to men and women.
    Now that you and bityme mention it, I think I'm the only one that refers to sexual preference that way. I guess it's my own way of doing a Kinsey Scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by danreidbarmi View Post
    I have, however, thought in terms of whether I was capable of getting romantically involved with a man. While, long ago, I had male relationships that bordered on romantic love, I've never lived with a man as a couple for more than a few days. And, since I've been married (to three consecutive women) all of my adult life, I could never imagine having the same feelings for a guy that I've had for women -- until everything changed.
    You and me both. Even 15 or so years ago- whenever it was became almost exclusively interested in men sexually- I never really thought I could be emotionally close enough to another guy to consider marriage. That changed when I outed myself to another guy a few years ago and he accepted both me and my homosexuality.

    We've since "broken up" and it wasn't until we'd broken up that I realized how much I loved him and that I would of certainly married him had he wanted to go that route, if I wasn't already married.

    Quote Originally Posted by danreidbarmi View Post
    At a convention just a couple of months ago, I picked out a guy at the bar who seemed a likely candidate (he was reading his Kindle, drinking Sambuca). /snipped now there's a chance that I might just get emotionally involved with another man.
    I'm curious if you're still seeing that guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by danreidbarmi View Post
    Btw, Fred, these days I'm much more gay than straight. But, I still drool when I see a well-constructed, female derriere swing back and forth.
    You and me both!

  14. #14

    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Well, Fred, my friend, it's somewhat of a relief to hear that your Kinsey % scale is not the latest, hippest way of looking at being multi-sexual. Not because I think there's anything wrong with it, but because I would hate to think that I'm out of the loop, as it were. It's a Virgo thing, an ego thing, a "coolness" thing.

    To answer your question as to whether I'm still seeing the guy who brought out "those feelings": No. As I was leaving Martin's room (not his real name), I suggested that maybe we could see each other again. He just gave me one of those sad, cock-headed grins that suggested I was a dope. It was a very uncomfortable and, frankly, humiliating moment. It was also a good dose of kharma for me, as I have often been on the other side of that conversation, answering a post-sex query if we could hook up again with no response at all. I've always thought it was too risky to give any personal info to anyone, a better idea to keep it all on the downlow.

    Also interesting: I asked Martin if his wife knew. "That I'm bi?" "Yes." "Yeah, sure. She's bi, too." I wonder how some guys get so lucky to find a woman they can love, marry, have a home and kids with, who will give them the freedom, support, and trust to satisfy their desires for men. If what Martin told me is true, I envy him, and I admire him and his spouse for having what seems, for me, to be a perfect and perfectly evolved relationship.

    (As it was a pivotal event in my journey, I will be covering the encounter with Martin in detail in a future chapter in my memoir-in-progress -- I Know You, You Know Me, currently available for download on a chapter-by-chapter basis on my website.)

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by danreidbarmi View Post
    If what Martin told me is true, I envy him, and I admire him and his spouse for having what seems, for me, to be a perfect and perfectly evolved relationship.
    Yep. You'll find couples on this site that have such relationships and you can't help but envy them.

    I would think that if there's any lesson for the younger, unmarried folks to learn from this site it's that, at the very least, you should let your potential spouse know of your bisexuality early on. Don't think your bi or homosexuality will just go away. It often gets stronger over time, as many here have related.

    Whether they should agree to an open relationship should be another issue entirely that would be up to the individuals involved, but the fact that one is bisexual should definitely known earlier, rather than later.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    I would say I am mostly a bottom bi sexual . Enjoy giving and receiving oral with men and women , sex with women vaginally and anally and receiving anal from men . And any combination of the above . Kissing ? Women only . That's what Bi sexual means to me . Different strokes for different folks . You have to decide what it means to you . I am not sure about using % to descibe myself .

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    As far as my % version of the Kinsey Scale, I guess one way to try and figure it is how often you think of sex with guys or gals when you masturbate. Something I've brought up here before.

    Back in my 20s I can't remember what my predominant fantasy was when jacking off, but I know I often thought of mansex back then. Maybe it was 50-50? I'm not sure.

    I do know for at least the last ten years I've only thought about men when jacking off, and I try to jack off at least once a day. Don't always get to, but I try to and it's always fantasizing about sex with Mr. Right. I'd say that makes me 100% homo, yet I still find far more women sexually attractive than men.

    I actually remember the last girl I jacked off fantasizing about. She was a very obese friend of the wife's. I think I only thought of her once out of the 300, or more, times I jacked off that year. That was probably 15 years ago.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    I dont' think of it in percentages. Dunno, just seems odd to me. I'm mostly straight. My love/lust for women has not changed. A great set of tits, a tasty pussy, bedroom eyes, or even just a wink will send me in a whirl of testosterone driven need. Oh...and I happen to like sucking cock.

    I don't think it's a percentage thing. I don't think as one rises another lowers.

    Pasa

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by bityme View Post
    The problem with percentages is that most people tend to view them as an indication of interest,not activity. The fluidity comes primarily from the activity. While I classify myself as 50/50, being equally comfortable with both sexes, circumstances over time have caused a variance in actual activity.
    I disagree. Interest also varies, not only activity.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    bityme
    The problem with all the classification BS is that it just furnishes a check list for easy rejection as opposed to an environment that encourages people to have actual communication with others to establish common grounds. While I might enjoy an activity that someone else does not, it should not give me reason to reject them. If we communicate and hit it off on another level, we can still enjoy those activities we both enjoy.

    I agree 100%. It has nothing to do with the brains need to label, it has everything to do with fear of relationship and lazy thinking. Kind of like looking for a house, so many options we need to quickly eliminate as many as possible. Does it have 4 bedrooms? No ok thanks moving on. The problem is with people there is so much more to the equation then "do you like anal or whatever" label you are asking about. I am a ME-sexual or a tri-sexual personally. But for the convenance of others I use the term Bisexual. That at least lets you know I am not gonna sock you in the mouth if you make a pass but forces you to ask more questions and establish some kind of communication. Besides just because I have not liked something with one person does not mean I won't try it or like it with someone else. So as we often quote around here "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges"

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Well, I know that this is not going to be the most popular answer, but I think that homosexuality and/or bisexuality is something written in the genetics of people. I dont think that our sexual orientation is something that we choose (allright, the environment in which we are raised and our personal decision can influence us, but only to a certain extent), but rather, something that we are born with. There has been homosexual and bisexual people since the dawn of time, and examples of homosexual and bisexual behaviour are found in the animal kingdom on thousands of species and individuals. However, I consider that there are more bisexual than homosexual people around, but probably most of them prefer to identify as gay/lesbian due to biphobia or misunderstanding of sexuality. I think that there is genetic component that makes people homosexual and bisexual ,and that there has always existed. And I think that this component has a different degree of presence in every individual. For example, it is very present in a person who is completely homosexual and attracted to only people of the same-sex, and less present in people who is attracted to both sexes (like me and most people on this site), and completely absent from people who are attracted only to the opposite sex. You have to understand that the word "homosexuality" and "bisexuality" were introduced to the popular language only in the 19th century. Until then, there were a variety of words to refer to homosexual and bisexual behaviour, and it was present on lots of cultures around the world and its history (some people estimate the presence of homosexuality in around 42% of cultures in etnographic works).

    For me, bisexuality is something fluid, and bisexuals are among the people who experiment most and are most adventurous when it comes to sexual matters (although it sounds like estereotyping, clearly not all bisexual people like to experiment, and not all of them are adventurous). I have recognized sexual attractions since I was a young kid, and although I didnt acted upon them until recently, I recognize they were something that were inside me from when I was a little kid.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    for me, i am a true bisexual all the way. i had my first man on man sexual experiance when i was 18 by my old landlord, he was gay and i was str8. we had some drinks watched some gay porn and one thing led to another, before you knew it we ended up having sex, wow was it ever great and i would not trade it for anything in the world,

    now that i am married to a wonderful lady, yes she knows of my bisexuality and loves it. we both love men and women just as equal,
    now that we are both bisexuals we love it and are very happy.

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Well, I don't know how to discribe bisexual activity. The Kinsey scale has me straight as an arrow, at 14% score, but I still love a great BJ from a guy, or a girl. A hot woman will always get me going, and guys are like friends, I don't get excited looking at a guy, but I sure do with a lady! I'm more attracted to the act itself, which is I guess genderless, as I really enjoy a guy blowing me, maybe even more the a woman, as I can relax, with nothing to prove.
    So, Is that Bisexual?

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    Re: What Does Bisexual Mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJ Hunter View Post
    Well, I don't know how to discribe bisexual activity. The Kinsey scale has me straight as an arrow, at 14% score, but I still love a great BJ from a guy, or a girl. A hot woman will always get me going, and guys are like friends, I don't get excited looking at a guy, but I sure do with a lady! I'm more attracted to the act itself, which is I guess genderless, as I really enjoy a guy blowing me, maybe even more the a woman, as I can relax, with nothing to prove.
    So, Is that Bisexual?
    I dunno for sure. You might be a little bit like me. I happen to like women a lot more than men, but I dont mind when I guy gives me head and sucks me off, it even excites me as much as with a girl. But if you are 14% I think I might be a little higher than you (at 20-25%,maybe). But anyway, if you were completely straight, the scale would be not 14%, but 0%. 14% means that you are at least a little bit attracted to same-sex behaviour. You could be what people calls "bicurious", or "heteroflexible", a guy who is predominantly straight but who sometimes (out of curiosity or just for plain attraction) has sex with men.

 

 

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