Teen lesbian couple found shot in the head in Texas

[falcondfw]

Annika.... its difficult in a way, cos I do not see what happened as any more tragic cos of the sexuality / gender of the victims nor what happened, any more heinous because of sexuality / gender..... but I view it from the point of view as a parent.... would a possible crime against one child be more heinous than the same crime against another if one was LGBT and the other was not....

if it was one of the site members, how many of us would focus on the nature of the crime and reduce it to a possible hate crime against the LGBT and how many of us would mourn the loss of a loved one, a friend, a part of the family and pray for justice to be served, not cos the lost one was LGBT, but cos we lost somebody we cared so much about......

my heart goes out to the family and I do hope that the surviving teen is able to recover and provide answers....but I have the gut feeling that the sexuality aspect will continued to be pushed cos it makes better news and provokes more of a reaction from people, than the fact that one teen is dead and another is fighting to survive.....

exactly my sentiments.

[æonpax]

I begin to wonder why we have language.. so few seem to be able to comprehend it...

The problem is "literacy" and in particular, lack of critical thinking skills.

[DuckiesDarling]

The problem is "literacy" and in particular, lack of critical thinking skills.

You know, Aeon you and Fran should both stop having a go at other's comprehension skills, if you hadn't noticed by now most of the people who belong to a forum, you know a text based communication area, can read. It's when you keep trying to read into what people say that it gets to be an issue. So both of you need to stop your little digs and then maybe other's won't get defensive. See how easy it is to all just get along without being super bitch? Oh wait, you can't. Do continue.

[æonpax]

Annika.... its difficult in a way, cos I do not see what happened as any more tragic cos of the sexuality / gender of the victims nor what happened, any more heinous because of sexuality / gender..... but I view it from the point of view as a parent.... would a possible crime against one child be more heinous than the same crime against another if one was LGBT and the other was not....

if it was one of the site members, how many of us would focus on the nature of the crime and reduce it to a possible hate crime against the LGBT and how many of us would mourn the loss of a loved one, a friend, a part of the family and pray for justice to be served, not cos the lost one was LGBT, but cos we lost somebody we cared so much about......

my heart goes out to the family and I do hope that the surviving teen is able to recover and provide answers....but I have the gut feeling that the sexuality aspect will continued to be pushed cos it makes better news and provokes more of a reaction from people, than the fact that one teen is dead and another is fighting to survive.....

I'll respect your opinion on this but thankfully, everyone is not you nor thinks like you...or me for that matter. This incident is very important to the LGBT community not becuase in your opinion, "it makes better news" but becuase is another violent crime that has been seen as an affront against gays in general....in a political environment here in the US that is becoming hostile to gays.

The fact that these females were lesbian is NEWS aside from the tragic loss of life. Every time a white cop shoots a black person, it becomes news because of an alleged racist angle to it. To try to deny the fact that such a motivation is possible is an attempt to blow off reality, which is what you are doing with these lesbians.

You can convolute this issue all you want to fit your personal ideology but again, the fact remains, two females who were lesbians were shot for reasons unknown. It is being discussed, much to your chagrin, as a possible hate crime, such as in this HuffPost "Gay Voices" article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1627318.html

You are deliberately downplaying the possibility that they were shot becuase of their orientation, for your own purpose(s).

[æonpax]

You know, Aeon you and Fran should both stop having a go at other's comprehension skills, if you hadn't noticed by now most of the people who belong to a forum, you know a text based communication area, can read. It's when you keep trying to read into what people say that it gets to be an issue. So both of you need to stop your little digs and then maybe other's won't get defensive. See how easy it is to all just get along without being super bitch? Oh wait, you can't. Do continue.

And you my dear duckie, should learn the art of critical thinking. I could post a list of the forums and news services that are discussing this issue as a possible hate crime but I am afraid you would ignore them like you do all other facts that disagree with your ideology.

If this thread annoys you and your ilk, which is obviously does, why post in it? You and your buddies actually created this controversy here...then try to play the victim. So very sad there are people like this.

Perhaps if you would expand your horizons a bit more...you know, think outside that box you confine yourself in, it's not a pretty world but it is REAL and the dangers in it are REAL.

Can't handle this issue? The solution is obvious...don't post in threads containing adult issues. Problem solved.

[BiDaveDtown]

Well said DFWFalcon. As a bisexual Texan, I really resent when people talk about our state like it's the source of all anti-LGBT hate. I lived in a major city on the west coast, and had biphobic and homophobic slurs yelled at me publicly there three different times, and when I visited a large so called "progressive" city in Canada I also had slurs yelled at me there, which never happened in Texas even when I lived in small towns here. Yes, a lot of bigots live in Texas, but they do in California and even in Canada as well, and there are plenty of non-bigots in both places. And may I remind ya’ll that anti-LGBT bigotry is written into both states’ constitutions, and now there's a federal law against hate crimes for LGBT people. Also, Houston is the largest city ever to have an openly lesbian mayor, which is something SF has never had. Let’s talk about how we can make queer folks’ lives better in Texas, California, and everywhere instead of using gay rights as a reason to argue over whose state is better.

[æonpax]

Well said DFWFalcon. As a bisexual Texan, I really resent when people talk about our state like it's the source of all anti-LGBT hate. I lived in a major city on the west coast, and had biphobic and homophobic slurs yelled at me publicly there three different times, and when I visited a large so called "progressive" city in Canada I also had slurs yelled at me there, which never happened in Texas even when I lived in small towns here. Yes, a lot of bigots live in Texas, but they do in California and even in Canada as well, and there are plenty of non-bigots in both places. And may I remind ya’ll that anti-LGBT bigotry is written into both states’ constitutions, and now there's a federal law against hate crimes for LGBT people. Also, Houston is the largest city ever to have an openly lesbian mayor, which is something SF has never had. Let’s talk about how we can make queer folks’ lives better in Texas, California, and everywhere instead of using gay rights as a reason to argue over whose state is better.

No one was keying on Texas, not here nor in anyone of the news services or forums I have seen discussing this incident. I guess it must be Texas pride thing.

[DuckiesDarling]

And you my dear duckie, should learn the art of critical thinking. I could post a list of the forums and news services that are discussing this issue as a possible hate crime but I am afraid you would ignore them like you do all other facts that disagree with your ideology.

If this thread annoys you and your ilk, which is obviously does, why post in it? You and your buddies actually created this controversy here...then try to play the victim. So very sad there are people like this.

Perhaps if you would expand your horizons a bit more...you know, think outside that box you confine yourself in, it's not a pretty world but it is REAL and the dangers in it are REAL.

Can't handle this issue? The solution is obvious...don't post in threads containing adult issues. Problem solved.

Aeon, I have long had an issue with people, MOSTLY YOU, sensationalizing things as it makes for better news copy. As was pointed out with the Martin case, the photos presented as the victim were a much smaller younger Martin in an attempt to garner more sympathy. Someone died. That's the bottom line and answers need to be found. In this case someone died and someone is clinging to life and maybe if they survive answers will be more forthcoming. But the constant insistance of the LGBT in snatching any tragedy and pushing it for all it's worth backfires when things are proven to have not been because they are LGBT. I'm sorry you can't step down off your pedastal long enough to join us in the real world where bad things happen to good people all the time and there is no rhyme or reason.

[falcondfw]

I'll respect your opinion on this but thankfully, everyone is not you nor thinks like you...or me for that matter. This incident is very important to the LGBT community not becuase in your opinion, "it makes better news" but becuase is another violent crime that has been seen as an affront against gays in general....in a political environment here in the US that is becoming hostile to gays.

The fact that these females were lesbian is NEWS aside from the tragic loss of life. Every time a white cop shoots a black person, it becomes news because of an alleged racist angle to it. To try to deny the fact that such a motivation is possible is an attempt to blow off reality, which is what you are doing with these lesbians.

You can convolute this issue all you want to fit your personal ideology but again, the fact remains, two females who were lesbians were shot for reasons unknown. It is being discussed, much to your chagrin, as a possible hate crime, such as in this HuffPost "Gay Voices" article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1627318.html

You are deliberately downplaying the possibility that they were shot becuase of their orientation, for your own purpose(s).

Joan,

I think you are making a mistake and missing the point.

The fact these young women were attacked, whether lesbian, bi, or straight, is a complete tragedy.

The fact one of them is dead and the other fighting for her life absolutely sucks.

Those responsible must be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I think everyone agrees on these facts. At least I hope everyone does.

The fact is ALL media, right-wing or left-wing, is just media these days. They are not reporters. They are spinners.

Why is it so important they were LESBIAN lovers? because it serves the media agenda (and yours from what I see).

Why is it so important they are young? because it is better in sensation - "Cut down. In the prime of life."

Why is it so important they are in Texas? because we have had high profile stories blown up by the media in the past that make Texans look like right-wing, bigoted, red-necked, serial-killer, rubes. And yes, there are more than a few idiots to justify that.

These women need justice, not spin. If the evidence shows it is a hate crime, the bastards should be hung from a tree.
If not, they should still be hung from a tree.

Crime is crime. Sick as it is. Do you, or anyone else, seriously think you can determine someone's motives for a crime without a confession? If so, I seriously need to come see you to get my head straightened out. lol.

[falcondfw]

No one was keying on Texas, not here nor in anyone of the news services or forums I have seen discussing this incident. I guess it must be Texas pride thing.

BULLSHIT!
STOP LYING!
The freakin headline itself says killed in Texas!

[Long Duck Dong]

I'll respect your opinion on this but thankfully, everyone is not you nor thinks like you...or me for that matter. This incident is very important to the LGBT community not becuase in your opinion, "it makes better news" but becuase is another violent crime that has been seen as an affront against gays in general....in a political environment here in the US that is becoming hostile to gays.

The fact that these females were lesbian is NEWS aside from the tragic loss of life. Every time a white cop shoots a black person, it becomes news because of an alleged racist angle to it. To try to deny the fact that such a motivation is possible is an attempt to blow off reality, which is what you are doing with these lesbians.

You can convolute this issue all you want to fit your personal ideology but again, the fact remains, two females who were lesbians were shot for reasons unknown. It is being discussed, much to your chagrin, as a possible hate crime, such as in this HuffPost "Gay Voices" article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1627318.html

You are deliberately downplaying the possibility that they were shot becuase of their orientation, for your own purpose(s).

I see a tragedy with two females shot for unknown reasons, that happen to be lesbians.... you see two lesbians shot for unknown reasons....

people are people regardless of the sexuality... they are human beings just like the rest of the human race.... and I will continue to see people as people regardless of sexuality, cos sexuality is a aspect of who people are, not the sum total of their existence......and while my heart goes out to the family and friends over the tragedy, it goes out to them cos they are suffering cos of what happened to their daughters / friends.... not to two lesbian females that just happen to be their family / friends....

I am a lil surprised that you are making a big deal out of this over the sexuality and remaining very silent over one of the main leaders in the san francisco fight for same sex marriage, being charged with objectionable material of a illegal nature, and the claims that he is being targeted cos he is gay.... or is he the wrong sexuality for you to post about in the forums ?

[ExSailor]

I've been checking out some of the stories about this and right off the top of my head I can think of different scenarios that have nothing to do with the sexuality of these two people. The major one coming to mind is drugs. It's a tragedy but just trying to sensationalize it as a LGBT tragedy is indeed "cashing in". Every day in this world someone is the victim of a crime, the sexuality of the person does not make the crime any more or less horrific. So I want to wait before I lament the poor lesbian couple and would rather have the facts in the case and know exactly who did the shooting if not why. But I'd be willing to lay odds it will come down to someone being where they shouldn't have been for an act they shouldn't have been engaging in.

I agree with your post. It does sound like a drug related crime. These are not bisexual or gay men so they wouldn't have been in a park at 12AM looking for sex like we used to do before the internet! People who are into hard drugs like cocaine, crystal meth, crack, and heroin do however go to parks and other places very late at night or at all hours of the day and night to cop drugs. It could be a scorned ex who went crazy as well, or even a murder-suicide. Even the police chief of that Texas city says how it's not a hate crime and there's no evidence that these women were shot because of their sexual orientation. caller.com/news/2012/jun/26/portland-police-chief-no-evidence-suggest-teenage/

[falcondfw]

I agree with your post. It does sound like a drug related crime. These are not bisexual or gay men so they wouldn't have been in a park at 12AM looking for sex like we used to do before the internet! People who are into hard drugs like cocaine, crystal meth, crack, and heroin do however go to parks and other places very late at night or at all hours of the day and night to cop drugs. It could be a scorned ex who went crazy as well, or even a murder-suicide. Even the police chief of that Texas city says how it's not a hate crime and there's no evidence that these women were shot because of their sexual orientation. caller.com/news/2012/jun/26/portland-police-chief-no-evidence-suggest-teenage/

Excellent and honest sailor. If it turned out to be an LGBT hate crime, I am sure you would, as I would fight to see the criminals never see the light of day again.

[falcondfw]

I see a tragedy with two females shot for unknown reasons, that happen to be lesbians.... you see two lesbians shot for unknown reasons....

people are people regardless of the sexuality... they are human beings just like the rest of the human race.... and I will continue to see people as people regardless of sexuality, cos sexuality is a aspect of who people are, not the sum total of their existence......and while my heart goes out to the family and friends over the tragedy, it goes out to them cos they are suffering cos of what happened to their daughters / friends.... not to two lesbian females that just happen to be their family / friends....

I am a lil surprised that you are making a big deal out of this over the sexuality and remaining very silent over one of the main leaders in the san francisco fight for same sex marriage, being charged with objectionable material of a illegal nature, and the claims that he is being targeted cos he is gay.... or is he the wrong sexuality for you to post about in the forums ?

Good point LDD. I read the report an hour ago. In the RIGHT-WING media. Turnabout is fair play. Evil bastards, ON BOTH SIDES, need to be fried. Stir fried even. After they are suitably recruited (forced) by BUBBA to be ... entertaining.

[ExSailor]

Excellent and honest sailor. If it turned out to be an LGBT hate crime, I am sure you would, as I would fight to see the criminals never see the light of day again.

Even if it's a hate crime or isn't one I still don't want the person who murdered the one woman and tried to kill the other one to see freedom ever again.

[æonpax]

Joan,

I think you are making a mistake and missing the point.
Prove it.

The fact these young women were attacked, whether lesbian, bi, or straight, is a complete tragedy.
No one said it wasn’t.

The fact one of them is dead and the other fighting for her life absolutely sucks.
I agree

Those responsible must be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I think everyone agrees on these facts. At least I hope everyone does.
I agree

The fact is ALL media, right-wing or left-wing, is just media these days. They are not reporters. They are spinners.
Now that is your opinion and to a certain extent, I agree. However, what makes to come to that conclusion? Can you cite examples? Do you think this particular news article had a spin to it and why? What do you consider good journalistic reporting and why?


Why is it so important they were LESBIAN lovers? because it serves the media agenda (and yours from what I see).
Because, it is “topical” which is to say, pertaining to or dealing with matters of current or local interest. Like it or not, Gay rights and incidences involving gays has the attention of the nation. The same holds true for the elections, voting rights and the recent SCOTUS decision on immigration. It's all topical.


Why is it so important they are young? because it is better in sensation - "Cut down. In the prime of life."
Good question. Any assault, anywhere, especially involving a murder of young people, is news. Would you tell the media to stop reporting of murders and assaults because you don’t like it? Did the age of the victims offend you? Do you remember when Elizabeth Smart was abducted? Should the media have ignored her age and religion becuase YOU feel it's sensational?


Why is it so important they are in Texas? because we have had high profile stories blown up by the media in the past that make Texans look like right-wing, bigoted, red-necked, serial-killer, rubes. And yes, there are more than a few idiots to justify that.
1) This happened in Texas. Would you have liked it better if the news agencies kept the location a secret or made up a new location, lets say Alabama or North Dakota?
2) The article did NOT mention Texas other than a location. Your reference to a few of the citizens there as being right-wing, bigots and red necks may have merit but it is NOT what the story was about. Please remain focused.


These women need justice, not spin. If the evidence shows it is a hate crime, the bastards should be hung from a tree. If not, they should still be hung from a tree.
Can you point out the supposed “spin” in this article or are you assuming something without facts? I agree whomever was responsible for this should be prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Unlike you though, I do not believe in “mob justice” nor “capitol punishment.”


Crime is crime. Sick as it is. Do you, or anyone else, seriously think you can determine someone's motives for a crime without a confession? If so, I seriously need to come see you to get my head straightened out. lol.
I seriously see you are looking for any wacky idea, no matter how far fetched, how unrealistic and how contrived, to derail this thread. What you just stated proved absolutely nothing other than your inability to accept facts as they are. Moreover, you blame me for reporting ,verbatim, something that hundreds of other news agencies are reporting in the same exact language.

I can respect your opinion that you disagree with what you perceive, (for reasons you did not fully articulate) as being sensationalistic reporting, but I don't agree. Now you can close your eyes, put your hands over your ears and keep saying La la la, but that is not going to change the reality that many people feel and think, this could be a hate crime against homosexuals.

If you have ever read Don Quixote, there is a point where the stories protagonist criticizes Quixote for not seeing "life as it is" to which he replies most poignantly, what is life as it is? Quixote had seen the horrors of war and it overwhelmed him..."life as it is." Does the media have a responsibility not to overwhelm the viewer in reporting "life as it is"...in all it's unpleasantries? Now that's for you to decide. For me, I don't want mine sanitized or editorialized.

[æonpax]

I see a tragedy with two females shot for unknown reasons, that happen to be lesbians.... you see two lesbians shot for unknown reasons....

people are people regardless of the sexuality... they are human beings just like the rest of the human race.... and I will continue to see people as people regardless of sexuality, cos sexuality is a aspect of who people are, not the sum total of their existence......and while my heart goes out to the family and friends over the tragedy, it goes out to them cos they are suffering cos of what happened to their daughters / friends.... not to two lesbian females that just happen to be their family / friends....

I am a lil surprised that you are making a big deal out of this over the sexuality and remaining very silent over one of the main leaders in the san francisco fight for same sex marriage, being charged with objectionable material of a illegal nature, and the claims that he is being targeted cos he is gay.... or is he the wrong sexuality for you to post about in the forums ?

First, may I suggest you contact the hundreds of agencies worldwide that have reported this incident and voice to them your objections. I do not see your objections as being unreasonable, albeit unrealistic and short-sighted. While you are at it, please contact all the LGBT organizations with your protests.

It is YOU bringing up sexuality. It is YOU mentioning sexuality and it is YOU with the problem here. You also don't like my opinion but hey, deal with it.

It's not a perfect world my friend, you just have to know your own limitations if you want to change things. Whining to me about something I posted is rather useless...usless. of course, your real intention is something other than than to be critical about journalistic techniques.

[Long Duck Dong]

First, may I suggest you contact the hundreds of agencies worldwide that have reported this incident and voice to them your objections. I do not see your objections as being unreasonable, albeit unrealistic and short-sighted. While you are at it, please contact all the LGBT organizations with your protests.

It is YOU bringing up sexuality. It is YOU mentioning sexuality and it is YOU with the problem here. You also don't like my opinion but hey, deal with it.

It's not a perfect world my friend, you just have to know your own limitations if you want to change things. Whining to me about something I posted is rather useless...usless. of course, your real intention is something other than than to be critical about journalistic techniques.

I am still waiting to see ANY legal outfit prove that the sexuality had ANYTHING to do with the tragedy..... and until that point, the sexuality of the females is simply and bluntly to make headlines.... I reckon if they were not lesbians, the headline would have read two teens shot in Texas and not two heterosexual teens shot in texas, and you would have not bothered to post it in here, cos they are heterosexuals.....

as for me bringing up sexuality.... WTF is your thread titled ??? teletubbles riot in texas ???? barney the dinosaur has a sex change in arkansas ??? wonder woman joins WBC in texas ? ????? nope, its Teen lesbian couple found shot in the head in Texas.......

now I will say it again, its a fucking tragedy, I hope in the event that its proven to be a crime, that justice is done... not cos they are lesbians, teens, females or they shave their fucking legs and wax their bikini lines..... but cos justice needs to be done, cos they are PEOPLE, not just lesbians teens from texas, but people....

I am pretty fucking sure that their parents are not mourning what happened to their lesbian children, but to their own flesh and blood, their kin, their children....and I am not overly sure that they are happy about the fact that the tragedy is being made any more of a tragedy in peoples eyes, just cos they are lesbians.....

on a foot note, why have you not posted anything about the reopening of the case in australia from the 80s, where the police now believe that up to 10 if not more, gay males may have been pushed to their deaths over the side of a cliff at a gay cruising spot... cos if that is proven to be a hate crime, it is going to be one of the worst that australia has ever seen......

[æonpax]

I was asked to produce evidence that a) crimes against gays or the LGBT are on the rise. b) I also volunteered to make the correlation between such crimes and the rise in anti-gay rhetoric coming from the conservative right.

I’ll start with a);

Anti-LGBT Hate Crimes Rise, But So Does Reporting - Hate crimes committed against LGBTs in the United States and Puerto Rico in 2011 included 30 murders, the highest number ever recorded by a coalition of anti-violence organizations. The deaths, an 11 percent increase from 2010 (when there were 27), were among statistics in an annual report the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs issued on May 31. But in New England -- where none of the reported murders occurred -- increased reporting is beginning to address the problem. - http://www.edgenewyork.com/news/loca...does_reporting


Crimes against LGBT community are up, despite social gains - Violent crimes, including murder, increased last year against people identifying themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT), and people of color among those groups were most likely to be targeted, an advocacy group reports.

A report last month by the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs, a group that supports victims of anti-LGBT harassment, found: (read the link) - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...l-survey_n.htm


Hate crimes against gay, transgender people rise, report says - The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs report says violent crimes against people in the LGBT community rose 13% in 2010, and that minorities and transgender women were more likely to be targeted. - http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul...rimes-20110713


Hate Crimes Against LGBTQ People Highest In 14 Years - The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Projects today released a collective report on hate crimes against LGBTQ people. Despite increased public and political acceptance of gays and lesbians, the number of crimes against LGBTQ people is the highest since 1998, the year they began tallying such attacks and also the year Matthew Shepard was murdered. - http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/hat...-14-years.html

[æonpax]

1) I am still waiting to see ANY legal outfit prove that the sexuality had ANYTHING to do with the tragedy..... and until that point, the sexuality of the females is simply and bluntly to make headlines.... I reckon if they were not lesbians, the headline would have read two teens shot in Texas and not two heterosexual teens shot in texas, and you would have not bothered to post it in here, cos they are heterosexuals.....

2) as for me bringing up sexuality.... WTF is your thread titled ??? teletubbles riot in texas ???? barney the dinosaur has a sex change in arkansas ??? wonder woman joins WBC in texas ? ????? nope, its Teen lesbian couple found shot in the head in Texas.......

3) now I will say it again, its a fucking tragedy, I hope in the event that its proven to be a crime, that justice is done... not cos they are lesbians, teens, females or they shave their fucking legs and wax their bikini lines..... but cos justice needs to be done, cos they are PEOPLE, not just lesbians teens from texas, but people....

4) I am pretty fucking sure that their parents are not mourning what happened to their lesbian children, but to their own flesh and blood, their kin, their children....and I am not overly sure that they are happy about the fact that the tragedy is being made any more of a tragedy in peoples eyes, just cos they are lesbians.....

5) on a foot note, why have you not posted anything about the reopening of the case in australia from the 80s, where the police now believe that up to 10 if not more, gay males may have been pushed to their deaths over the side of a cliff at a gay cruising spot... cos if that is proven to be a hate crime, it is going to be one of the worst that australia has ever seen......

1) Look at my original post. I said it was too early to tell if it was a hate crime.

2) I quoted the headline. Would you have preferred I made up something that did not mention the gender or orientation of the victims?

3) Thank you Captain Obvious.

4) What's your point in all that? See #3

5) Is this a trick question? I live in the US and can barely keep up with the news here. If you consider it important, then by all means, post it.

[Long Duck Dong]

1) Look at my original post. I said it was too early to tell if it was a hate crime.

2) I quoted the headline. Would you have preferred I made up something that did not mention the gender or orientation of the victims?

3) Thank you Captain Obvious.

4) What's your point in all that? See #3

5) Is this a trick question? I live in the US and can barely keep up with the news here. If you consider it important, then by all means, post it.

1) what does your original post have to do with what I said in my post... I never mentioned your original post, nor did I mention hate crime in the paragraph you are refering to

2) yeah you quoted the headline, than accused me of bringing up sexuality.... so was sexuality first mentioned by me, or by you ????

3) once again, I am not making it about sexuality, and nor are the cops, the media is doing that quite nicely

4) my point is that the parents are lamenting what happened to their daughters, their flesh and blood... and I would be surprised if they are crying bigger tears cos of the sexuality of their daughters....

5) well I assumed since you had so much time to misread what I post and then put words in my mouth that I did not say, that you would have time to check out some of the other big LGBT issues going on around the world......

so lets try this again... I am not making it about sexuality, that was done by the media.... I see a tragedy, they see a way make a headline stand out.... I see a possible crime, the media see sexuality, I see two teen females shot in strange circumstances, the media sees lesbians and a possible hate crime..... I see a family strugging with the loss of a daughter and another family with a daughter in hospital, the media sees a dead lesbian and a lesbian in hospital.....the police see two teens shot at night with a large calibre gun, the media sees two lesbians, the police see no connection between the sexuality and the event, the media sees lesbians....

I could go on and on.... but my point is simple, its tragic, my heart goes out to the family, if its a crime, i hope that justice is done fairly etc etc... and the sexuality still doesn't matter to me.... only to the media and you

[æonpax]

1) what does your original post have to do with what I said in my post... I never mentioned your original post, nor did I mention hate crime in the paragraph you are refering to

2) yeah you quoted the headline, than accused me of bringing up sexuality.... so was sexuality first mentioned by me, or by you ????

3) once again, I am not making it about sexuality, and nor are the cops, the media is doing that quite nicely

4) my point is that the parents are lamenting what happened to their daughters, their flesh and blood... and I would be surprised if they are crying bigger tears cos of the sexuality of their daughters....

5) well I assumed since you had so much time to misread what I post and then put words in my mouth that I did not say, that you would have time to check out some of the other big LGBT issues going on around the world......

so lets try this again... I am not making it about sexuality, that was done by the media.... I see a tragedy, they see a way make a headline stand out.... I see a possible crime, the media see sexuality, I see two teen females shot in strange circumstances, the media sees lesbians and a possible hate crime..... I see a family strugging with the loss of a daughter and another family with a daughter in hospital, the media sees a dead lesbian and a lesbian in hospital.....the police see two teens shot at night with a large calibre gun, the media sees two lesbians, the police see no connection between the sexuality and the event, the media sees lesbians....

I could go on and on.... but my point is simple, its tragic, my heart goes out to the family, if its a crime, i hope that justice is done fairly etc etc... and the sexuality still doesn't matter to me.... only to the media and you

First off, no one reported on the female's sexuality. What was reported was their ORIENTATION, which is Lesbian. Does that offend you? It seems to. The media reports on specific crimes against; gays, Jews, Islamics, women, blacks, Latino's, elderly and handicapped. Do you oppose this kind of reporting too? If you have an ax to grind against journalism and reporting methods such as Who, What, When, Where and Why? take it to those who teach it and maintain that structure.

You are looping yourself here. Any human death is a tragedy and loved ones morn. No sane person will say otherwise. What makes certain deaths NEWS and what you seem to have a problem with, is specifics such as "orientation". I may be wrong but in my opinion, you are hiding behind the human agony of death in order to take pot shots at a legitimate topic such as violence against gays....a topic that tens of millions are concerned about.

You can be such a phoney sometimes. At least have the backbone to admit what you are really doing, instead of harping on false issues that only exist with you and those who share your ideology about homosexuals.

[FinkDoodle]

I'll phrase my statement so it could be better understood by some parties. The deaths of two strangers is a tragic thing and is not the business of gossiping magpies on an adult chat board, no matter how they try to make it so . . . is that better?

[Long Duck Dong]

jesus christ..... do you listen to yourself... ????

I do not give a fuck about their sexuality, their orientation, the state of their hair last year during the full moon at 2.13 in the morning on a tuesday in june......

I have posted a number of times in the forum about how I see things in terms of basic human rights for people, I leave the politicking and all that BS for people like you and fran that like to go on about religion and politics etc etc, I really could not give a rats ass about that shit.....

I saw the same BS when my former bisexual / lesbian sister and her lesbian partner died of aids and the LGBT community suddenly had a interest in it cos they were lesbians that died of aids and all wanted to be a part of the funeral and do interviews with me about what happened etc... and I turned around and said how many of you fuckers ever bothered to send them a card, a email, ring them, call in and say hi.... and they wanted to talk about how they wanted to give their condolences and pay their respects.... my answer was no, you want to turn their funerals into a fucking media circus and get attention for your cause.....

I lost a best friend and a sister, two of the people that I loved so much, but they only mattered when other people could use them to get attention for themselves... up until that point, most of the LGBT never gave a fuck about them and kept the hell away...... skye was so much more than just a sexuality / orientation, she was my sister, my friend, my supporter and I was not the only one that loved her to bits.....

to the LGBT media community, she was just a lesbian that died of aids and somebody to make a story out of.....

so yeah, call me a phoney all you want..... I have lived thru the pain, the heartache and the loss that one family is going thru.... the loss of a family member that also happened to be a lesbian... so I know just how much it can hurt and how much of a pack of assholes the media can be when it comes to dehumanising a person and turning them into a headline

[falcondfw]

I was asked to produce evidence that a) crimes against gays or the LGBT are on the rise. b) I also volunteered to make the correlation between such crimes and the rise in anti-gay rhetoric coming from the conservative right.

I’ll start with a);

Anti-LGBT Hate Crimes Rise, But So Does Reporting - Hate crimes committed against LGBTs in the United States and Puerto Rico in 2011 included 30 murders, the highest number ever recorded by a coalition of anti-violence organizations. The deaths, an 11 percent increase from 2010 (when there were 27), were among statistics in an annual report the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs issued on May 31. But in New England -- where none of the reported murders occurred -- increased reporting is beginning to address the problem. - http://www.edgenewyork.com/news/loca...does_reporting


Crimes against LGBT community are up, despite social gains - Violent crimes, including murder, increased last year against people identifying themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT), and people of color among those groups were most likely to be targeted, an advocacy group reports.

A report last month by the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs, a group that supports victims of anti-LGBT harassment, found: (read the link) - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...l-survey_n.htm


Hate crimes against gay, transgender people rise, report says - The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs report says violent crimes against people in the LGBT community rose 13% in 2010, and that minorities and transgender women were more likely to be targeted. - http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul...rimes-20110713


Hate Crimes Against LGBTQ People Highest In 14 Years - The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Projects today released a collective report on hate crimes against LGBTQ people. Despite increased public and political acceptance of gays and lesbians, the number of crimes against LGBTQ people is the highest since 1998, the year they began tallying such attacks and also the year Matthew Shepard was murdered. - http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/hat...-14-years.html

I think the first headline/notation says it all - Anti-LGBT Hate Crimes Rise, But So Does Reporting.

REPORTING is up. That is why you hear more about it and why the statistics have risen. Yes, that is a good thing. Crimes against people should ALL be reported and responded to. Not just because they are black or latino. Not just because they are Bi, Les, or TG. But because they are CRIMES!

[falcondfw]

"First off, no one reported on the female's sexuality. What was reported was their ORIENTATION, which is Lesbian."

ok. pardon my ignorance on this subject, but what is the difference?

"What makes certain deaths NEWS and what you seem to have a problem with, is specifics such as "orientation"."

no. that makes it sensationalism. News would be - "Two women found shot in the park". Even in Houston or Dallas, that doesn't happen every day. That makes it news. Adding color or sexuality makes it sensationalistic spin for a political purpose.

[void()]

*void comes dancing along, stops upon seeing it ... gasps ... runs to it and leaps on it, catching it firmly ... he stands back up and dances about madly brandishing the 'nutball brush' and singing "my precious, precious precious", splattering nutball paint all over randomly as he dances on ...*

[void()]

Seriously? Two people dead, and it's nobody else's business but theirs and their families? Criminy, what do we pay police detectives for, I wonder? I mean, there's a killer on the streets (unless it was an extremely clever double suicide), but hey, it's not really anyone else's business, right?

In general, just to throw my two cents in as a reader of the thread (and I'm sure I'll be seen simply jumping in on the activist side, or maybe the women's side if there is one in this case), but all I saw was Joan *entertaining the possibility* that this could be a hate crime, given the circumstantial evidence...not inferring that it actually was, or claiming it was and then denying the claim.

Such rancor in this thread, sheesh. Feels a lot more to me like highschool pettiness than a discussion of anything; more to do with who dislikes whom than with who said what.

I eagerly await being told what I just said.

You said we need more silver because of it somehow mysteriously vanishing when I come to visit. And no, I'm not using it to support a meth/dragon habit despite that possibly being a first consideration. I actually have an allergy of silver, something to do with mother Luna. * void dances on to the local Habibb shop to buy stainless steel flatware, singing the hairy eel song as he goes * Oh, you also said that if I can make you laugh, we can go out for coffee later.

Ha! And I agree with you. Now, let me move this bishop to diamond jack, plus one fly ball and presto I got Rummy!

Seriously, I agree. Aeon did not say it absolutely was a hate crime. While I may feel her implications were given to sensationalism, that is merely my opinion. Brass tacks, she did not state it was a hate crime, even posted a pull quote, quoting the police whom said they were unsure, that it being a hate crime may be considered. Frankly, it sounds like the police are doing their job, investigating a homicide.

[falcondfw]

*void comes dancing along, stops upon seeing it ... gasps ... runs to it and leaps on it, catching it firmly ... he stands back up and dances about madly brandishing the 'nutball brush' and singing "my precious, precious precious", splattering nutball paint all over randomly as he dances on ...*

I think I've been splashed with some of that "nutball paint", but not in a violent sort of way. lol

[Annika L]

You said we need more silver because of it somehow mysteriously vanishing when I come to visit. And no, I'm not using it to support a meth/dragon habit despite that possibly being a first consideration. I actually have an allergy of silver, something to do with mother Luna. * void dances on to the local Habibb shop to buy stainless steel flatware, singing the hairy eel song as he goes * Oh, you also said that if I can make you laugh, we can go out for coffee later.

Ha! And I agree with you. Now, let me move this bishop to diamond jack, plus one fly ball and presto I got Rummy!

Seriously, I agree. Aeon did not say it absolutely was a hate crime. While I may feel her implications were given to sensationalism, that is merely my opinion. Brass tacks, she did not state it was a hate crime, even posted a pull quote, quoting the police whom said they were unsure, that it being a hate crime may be considered. Frankly, it sounds like the police are doing their job, investigating a homicide.

Aye, matey! Finally, someone who can read *and* write!! Just gie me back the silver, and I'll happily supply ye wi' all the reusable plasticware ye can shake a rude stick at (or at least eat potater salad wi').

Now I don't *exactly* recall the line about the coffee...but what the hell, you've got Rummy and you did make me laugh, so it's your call! Where and what time should we meet?