When will NZ pride parade grow up ?

[Long Duck Dong]

Over the years in this site, I have posted at times about an on going disagreement with the NZ LGBT... or mostly the auckland LGBT... and today I read in the online media site, that once again, they are at it again.

This time they want to ban cops in uniforms from being involved in the pride parade because apparently cops do not encompass community spirit and divide rather than unite the community..... it was originally the cops that wanted to be involved as part of the community and show their support and encouragement of the community, some cops are LGBT and liaison with the LGBT community in order to make things safer for the LGBT

Yes in NZs past there was issues between the police and the LGBT back in the days where homosexual acts were illegal but generally for the most part, they were left alone. Many many years later after laws passed to remove the homosexual sex act crime law, the granting of same sex marriage law and anti discrimination laws that protect against discrimination on the grounds of sexual preference and identity, there is still discrimination and intolerance going on and surprise surprise, its the group that is supposed to be encouraging unity and community spirit.

a few years ago, the cops did up a car in the rainbow colors in order to show their commitment to the rainbow community and immediately had to deal with a backlash from within the LGBT community leadership or more specially the trans representative who accused the police of using it for self promotion and business purposes and that it was not a permanent change to the car, just a token gesture....... in part that is true, the rainbow colors were only to be on the car for 2 weeks but that is due to the rules about any form of symbolism on police cars so the police bent the rules for those two weeks.

What is heartening to see, is the backlash from the LGBT community who are not impressed that the organizers of the pride parade are advocating discrimination and trying to dictate how people can represent themselves and the groups they are involved in.... and in this case, I support the police, if they can not wear their uniforms with pride and be involved in the pride parade without hiding who they are, they are not going to be involved.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/l...o-pride-parade

[Long Duck Dong]

I will give an update on this issue

the heart of the matter is a protest group called people against prisons aeotearoa. The main spokesperson and leader is a young person that believes that the police should not be in the pride parade because of what the police did in stonewall amongst other things.... yes stonewall in the USA 1969 and they have mentioned support from other LGBTI groups and people in the USA backing them.....
OK fair point, the police did some pretty serious shit... but this is pride parade auckland NZ, 2019 we are talking about
When leading an activist group and speaking out against the treatment of the LGBTI at the hands of the police over the last 30 years, well thats a good move until you acknowledge that you are not even 30 years old and did not actually witness any of it, you are just going on what other people say, thats a dumb move
Back it up with the idea that prisons should not exist in NZ, and that would mean that you are putting convicted rapists and murderers back out in amongst the community... some of whom have raped and murdered LGBTI people..... where is the logic in that ??? put the very same people that harmed members of the community back in amongst the community and exclude the very people that helped remove them from the community, in order to protect the community........


They have also claimed reports of transphobic treatment of trans people in prison. I accept that, except prisons are run by the corrections dept, not the police.... and of the 3 cases she mentions, 2 are under investigation and one was fully investigated including review of CCTV footage by independant reviewers which showed NONE of the claimed attacks on the trans person.
It does not mean that there is not problems in the system, there always will be and one of the problems that have been highlighted is that some trans people have not changed their gender on their legal paperwork, fair point EXCEPT there is a exemption under NZ law which means that your gender does not have to match your legal gender which means a trans person that may be male on paper, can be classed as female if that is how they id, so they can go into a womans prison.....

Thats not to say that transphobia does not exist in NZ because it does, the same as bi phobia, homophobia but not heterophobia as apparently discrimination against hetero or non LGBTI people does not exist..... cough cough bullshit, cough.....

Now the argument has been brought up that in regards to the police and the trans community, there is still a long way to go... I get that.... and my answer is that it was no different to the 30+ years of fighting in NZ to overturn the law against homosexual sex, to get same sex marriage rights etc..... its not going to happen overnight.....

currently as it stands, this is ONE pride parade in the whole of NZ, there is about 12 others that include the police and have had minimal problems and issues ....

Almost all of the major sponsors and funding providers have pulled their funding and support, the fire dept, defence force and other major groups have pulled out, the rainbow support group that also provides funding, have cancelled funding for the pride but not the other events and parades planned for that month, run by other groups..... and 4 members of the auckland pride council have turned against their own fellow members with a special AGM coming in december in which the entire council may be ended....

slow clap.... the auckland pride council have said they consulted with all main LGBTI groups over their decision to exclude the police.. the problem there is all the main groups are saying WHEN ???
and saying that this decision was made in the interests of the safety, health, mental health and wellbeing of the LGBTI community??? its the LGBTI community that is welcoming the police as we all want to move forward from the past which unfortunately, yes has some very dark times and episodes.

There are calls from within the LGBTI community and also the straight community to end the pride parade..... again slow clap as while they have a good point which is why is it needed now, we have rights...... it would remove one of the events where there is a public display and reaffirmation of the community spirit between the alternative and main stream sexuality groups, the which and desire to move forward from the past and also to continue work on ironing out the wrinkles we have in laws and guidelines.......
It would be like taking one of the largest areas of openly public unity and removing it, and putting the LGBTI back behind closed doors

Unfortunately in the interests of moving forward, in glasglow, scotland, in their pride parade, they banned drag queens for fear they would offend trans people..... good bye tolerance, understanding and recognition of the unique differences within communities and hello the opposition of minority groups......

As for myself, I have managed to get death threats, abuse, offensive emails..... just not trolled on social media as I hate FB.....
How dare I suggest that people with concerns over the police in uniforms that have suffered discrimination and intolerance, actually meet with the police that were going to march in the pride parade, they may actually find that those police have nothing to do with the discrimination and intolerance that some LBGTI have recieved at the hands of police......

That of the 20 or so trans people in prison in NZ, the majority are in there for violent offenses against other people, including police officers and correction officers

That yes, as a national and country, we are not perfect and never will be.... but why do we ignore the fact that the LGBTI are not paragons of innocence ourselves, we can give just as good as we get and that our high suicide rate of LGBTI in new zealand, is not just the sole domain of the treatment of LGBTI by the straight community but also by our own community.....


fingers crossed that the NZ auckland pride parade is still going ahead next year but chances are it will not as word has just come in that the ponsonby business committee has said no to supporting the auckland pride parade....

A parade with over $150k funding involving over 30k people, including defense force, cops, fire dept and the wider community, as well as the LGBTI community, with the potential to generate millions in funding for LGBTI projects and events over the year and with 80+ cops involved in improving LGBTI+ community relations and easing the differences between different groups..... all brought down by 6 people with an agenda that are supposed to represent the LGBTI........slow clap.... thats 10 years of work going down the drain

[tenni]

Hi LDD
Surprise. In 2017, a similar protest happened during the Pride Parade in Toronto Canada. Black Lives Matters stopped the Pride Parade and refused to permit it to go forward unless the Pride Committee banned the police taking part in the parade in the next year. In 2018, the police were banned to wear their uniform. The next year, Pride agreed to allow the police to take part and wear their uniforms. My dates could be off. I understand that Pride and the Police meet monthly or more to try to resolve the concerns. Sadly, there was a serial gay killer who killed 8? men over years of the LGBT asking the police to look at the missing men as a serial killer. He was discovered this year and some of the murders happened decades before. It was a gross killer who cut the bodies up. So, there was serious cause to not trust the police.

[Long Duck Dong]

There are 7 confirmed LGBT serial killers that I know about, ranging from the 1960s onwards....estimates of 16+ killers.... one of the more well known is john wayne gacy....But I tend to view it that we ignore that we have serial killers amongst our midst that do target our own, preferring to focus on non lgbt that target our own. What is the difference between one of our own and one not of our own? to my way of thinking, its perception......it is estimated that there is over 300+ active serial killers in the US alone..... what makes a killer of LGBT take priority ?

The police are not superhuman beings, they may have a lot of resources but they also have a lot of extra work to do in order to make a case that will stand up in court as its actually the lawyers and the legal system that is the biggest obstacle to justice..... and I do know cops in NZ that are so frustrated that they often can not get a case to court because the lawyers would tear it apart, even tho the cops know the offender is guilty beyond reasonable doubt, yet its the cops that get slammed over that, not the legal system

with the black lives matters issue, yes there was reason for concern over the treatment of people at the hands of the cops... yet why was race more important than the behievour and attitude of black people towards their own ? yes there was serious issues over what was done by the cops but why when the attacks on police by black people was at a higher rate, was there silence from the black community ?

Yes in NZ there is some police that I would openly and vocally oppose from being in the pride parade and that is because they are known to be intolerant but not just of the LGBT but by the same token there is some LGBT that I would also have the same attitude with but its because they have the opinion that everybody other than gay and lesbian, are not welcome in the pride parade.....
originally we did have the hero parade in NZ, in auckland that was the fore runner of the pride parade and it ran for a few years until finally the internal back stabbing, discrimination, intolerance and exclusion by the majority gay and lesbian group that ran it, ended up spelling out the end of the hero parade.... and even now, they blame the gay and lesbian community for not supporting the hero parade enough, where as the gay and lesbian community replied its the intolerance and discrimination we did not support and still do not......

its generally my stance that we expect people IE cops to reach a standard of tolerance, respect and impartial treatment that we can not reach ourselves and we use the argument that it is a requirement of the police to act according to that standard, while they deal with high levels of intolerance, disrespect, abuse etc from the general public..... that does not excuse the behievour of some cops at all...... but nor does it excuse our own attitude towards the police and our unreal expectations of them.....

I think the one thing that best emphases my point is the speed camera and traffic cop issue in NZ.... speed cameras and fines are regarded as revenue collecting by the cops and government, yes it is, it generates revenue from us speeding wand breaking the laws that we agree to obey as a condition of our license and use of NZ roads..... but some how it makes the cops wrong, not us......

[Long Duck Dong]

A further update or two
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/376544/pride-parade-on-edge-of-collapsing-founder the Rainbow New Zealand Charitable Trust, originally Gay and Lesbian Business Association is a inclusive trust that caters for all alternative sexuality that was providing funding for the pride parade... amongst them are the people that helped create and set up the pride pride after the demise of the hero parade.....the general understanding of the pride parade is that it would be all inclusive, without discrimination and exclusion

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/natio...thers-momentum the NZ public, not just the LGBT is crowdfunding to save the pride parade and keep it inclusive of all, but not ignoring the concerns of people that may feel intimidated or opposed by the police presence as that is also a concern...
Cissy rock current head of the auckland pride board, was not elected to lead the board, shes a stand in until the next AGM as the previous chair stood down, she has made it clear she does not want corporate funding or sponsorship of the pride parade, she wants it to be queer and edgy, even exclusive, which flies in the face of everything the pride parade was created for and has stood for.....4 members of the 9 member board have called for a vote of no confidence in the board, with a special AGM in december.....

Nobody is saying that there is not intimidation, discrimination or mistreatment of LGBT by cops, they are questioning why it is so shrouded in secrecy, there is very little if any information about the issues and the wider LGBTI community as well as the police are not able to confirm any issues.... even the head of the PAPA or people against prisons aeotearoa, said herself, she did not witness the majority of homophobic and transphobic incidents as she was too young but she has heard stories about stonewell so thats a valid reason to exclude the cops from the NZ pride parade...
stonewall happened, it was documented tho versions of events do differ.... however it would be like me saying I have a issue with the NZ cops because of a event in another country that happened before I was born, has made me fearful of the NZ police who had nothing to do with it....

one case of transphobia / homophobia that has been mentioned was a LGBT male at a party where the police say he was drunk, the complainant does not say if he was or not... but the police investigated, the person that assaulted the LGBT male was not charged, the official response was there was too many different stories of what actually happened at the party and why the assault happened.....when you have a party with people drinking, thats going to happen, I have seen it myself..... yet that is one of the people saying that the cops should not be at the pride parade because of their homophobic attitude......

some other reports have to do with treatment in prison, mostly not confirmed but stated as proof of police homophobia and transphobia.... but its not the police that run the prisons, its a private company that has the contract from the government to run the prisons and they hire corrections officers, the police are not involved and yes there has been serious concerns raised over their mismanagement of the prisons including assaults on prisoners and officers......some prison officers have been fired which is... I want to say a step in the right direction but firing a person does not mean that the next person hired, is any better.....
What raises the red flag is that the reports of attacks and mistreatment of trans prisoners can not be confirmed by the trans community or their workers in the prisons, including the one main case that was investigated, including CCTV footage and nothing could be found that supported the claims.....

again it comes down to what can be proven to be true or true beyond reasonable doubt by the LGBTI community as well as the cops because thats what the cops have to do here as well and then hope they can get enough evidence to get charges laid that will stand up in court.....
The rate of violence against LGBTI is low in NZ but not that low that it does not happen and the majority of claims are now mostly things like I did not get a job, ergo the employer is homophobic, ignore the fact the employer may have had 300 people apply for the same job....

I am personally willing to put up $100k to support and ensure the running of the pride parade next year with the understanding that $20k is set aside for support of those people that wish to participate in the pride parade but feel concerned or intimidated by the police also being there in the parade.... thats not a personal move to stamp on anybodies toes, its simply because people want the pride parade to go ahead as it was always intended, as an inclusive parade.....but if I am to be 100 % honest, I will not do it as long as people like cissy rock remain in charge as her stance that the pride parade is to be queer and edgy and exclusive, goes against everything that the pride parade stands for.....