Gimmie a Break....

Proof positive that Someone had consumed a little too much Swiss Chocolate today.......lol

.– Sun Mar 7, 12:59 pm ET
GENEVA – The result was emphatic: Swiss voters don't think abused animals need to have their own lawyers.

It's a proposal that would never even come near a referendum in other countries, but the measure's defeat Sunday disappointed animal rights advocates, who say Switzerland's elaborate animal welfare laws aren't being enforced.
Opponents of the proposal, including key farmers' groups and the government, had argued that existing laws are sufficient and appointing special lawyers to act on behalf of animals would be unnecessarily expensive for taxpayers. (Not to mention that they didnt want their fees to be paid in cream and cheese)


"The Swiss people have clearly said our animal protection laws are so good we don't need animal lawyers," Jakob Buechler, a lawmaker for the centrist Christian People's Party, told Swiss television SF1. (Lawyer? We don' need no stinkin' Lawyers. Or unscented ones, either, evidently)

Official results showed that 70.5 percent of voters cast their ballot against the proposal to extend nationwide a system that has been in place in Zurich since 1992. Some 29.5 percent of voters backed the proposal, with turnout at just over 45 percent.

According to the country's only animal lawyer, Antoine F. Goetschel, public prosecutors are often unsure about animal rights and shy away from pursuing cases even if there is clear evidence of abuse. He said the cost of Sunday's measure would have been less than 1 Swiss franc ($1) per person a year.

Tiana Angelina Moser, a lawmaker for the Green Liberal Party, said animal rights advocates would look for other ways to make sure laws against animal abuse are properly applied and those who hurt animals receive appropriate punishment. (Atta Girl)

"It's definitely disappointing, I thought it would have been a closer vote," said Moser. "I don't think it's a 'no' to animal protection, but a 'no' for this particular measure."

Switzerland tightened its laws two years ago and now has among the strictest rules anywhere when it comes to caring for pets and farm animals.

The country's 160-page animal protection law states exactly how much space owners must give Mongolian gerbils. (233 square inches) and what water temperature is required for African clawed frogs. (18-22 degrees Celsius; 64-72 degrees Fahrenheit) Hey, Gerbils need their space and frogs dont wanna become soup, I can understand that)

It stipulates that pigs, budgies, goldfish and other social animals cannot be kept alone. Horses and cows must have regular exercise outside their stalls and dog owners have to take a training course to learn how to properly look after their pets. Unless the pets have had previous owners and know how to train their humans in a proper manner)

Like in other countries, the law also forbids killing animals in a cruel fashion or for fun. (Ok now this one I agree with whole heartedly)

Swiss daily Tribune de Geneve reported earlier this year that a woman who decapitated four chickens and left their heads on the doorstep of her love rival received a 90-day suspended sentence. Former fan of Ozzie Osbourne no doubt)

Goetschel said he represents about 150-200 animals annually in Zurich, while in other cantons (states), only a handful of cases go to court each year.

Most of his clients are dogs, cows and cats, Goetschel told The Associated Press in a recent interview. Many cases involve the serious abuse of animals, such as deliberate wounding, rape and neglect. Cant be constituted as rape if said animal is 3 years old and at age of concent and didnt say "Naaaaw")

But in one high-profile case last month, Goetschel represented a dead pike after an animal protection group accused the angler who caught it of cruelty for taking 10 minutes to haul the fish in.

The angler was found not guilty, and the Pike was delicious. :rolleyes:

The world is ending as we know and I don't mind...

Oh, kidding, but the above was funny.

DB :bipride:

So your puppy was going to have a lawyer? "My client denies that he left the mess in the living room." Yes, that would have worked well.

There are aspects of animal abuse which do need representation in law but one would hope that national and international bodies would have sufficient clout to pursue legal prosecution.

PETA has distributed a video of some oriento-asiatic culture skinning a dog alive - a strong stomach is needed to watch that - No one prosecuted there. Elsewhere there are fireworks attached to pets. Sheep are molested sexually. Entertainment such as Bull fighting or animals put into pain to enrage them to show off man's ability to joust. At one time foxes were chased for fun (but that was only halted by general public outrage in the UK).

Of course there are countries whose ethos is to harvest whales for 'scientific purposes' or apes for bush-meat. The last is often associated with countries where children are accused of witchcraft and butchered and whose remains are reportedly used in 'ceremony'

Then there are the abuses of agricultural animals en-masse for human food - unbridalled mechanisation and overcrowding in poor conditions. It is felt here that Halal butchery is one of the real offences to western animal welfare culture.

The only thing wrong with the Swiss approach is that it opens animal welfare efforts to ridicule. Could it be the rarified mountain atmosphere?

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Originally Posted by thatcher29

So your puppy was going to have a lawyer? "My client denies that he left the mess in the living room." Yes, that would have worked well.

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or the puppy sez: I did NOT have sex with that bitch

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Originally Posted by **Peg**

or the puppy sez: I did NOT have sex with that bitch

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....or the bitch sez... "No m'lud.. we did not have sex.. he is a right dog!"

Awww me poor luffly ole Curio..still nower on planet 'e can get a lawyer...;)

*Huggles*

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

According to the country's only animal lawyer, Antoine F. Goetschel...
:

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What kind of animal is he? A shark?

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Originally Posted by Hephaestion

There are aspects of animal abuse which do need representation in law but one would hope that national and international bodies would have sufficient clout to pursue legal prosecution.

PETA has distributed a video of some oriento-asiatic culture skinning a dog alive - a strong stomach is needed to watch that - No one prosecuted there. Elsewhere there are fireworks attached to pets. Sheep are molested sexually. Entertainment such as Bull fighting or animals put into pain to enrage them to show off man's ability to joust. At one time foxes were chased for fun (but that was only halted by general public outrage in the UK).

Of course there are countries whose ethos is to harvest whales for 'scientific purposes' or apes for bush-meat. The last is often associated with countries where children are accused of witchcraft and butchered and whose remains are reportedly used in 'ceremony'

Then there are the abuses of agricultural animals en-masse for human food - unbridalled mechanisation and overcrowding in poor conditions. It is felt here that Halal butchery is one of the real offences to western animal welfare culture.

The only thing wrong with the Swiss approach is that it opens animal welfare efforts to ridicule. Could it be the rarified mountain atmosphere?

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Or Rattle Snakes being hunted out, gathered enmasse, as part of some kind of sick community effort and then, they get their heads chopped off. And what the hell for? And that happening in a very western country.

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Originally Posted by Canticle

Or Rattle Snakes being hunted out, gathered enmasse, as part of some kind of sick community effort and then, they get their heads chopped off. And what the hell for? And that happening in a very western country.

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Because Rattle snakes are a very dangerous pest. Where I used to live they had a law(made in the 1800's) that one could not kick the head of a rattle snake if it stuck its head up through the sidewalk boards. It wasn't and isn't uncommon to reach for a piece of firewood and happen upon a rattler.

No one is eliminating them entirely, just reducing the population a bit.

Rattlesnakes aren't friendly, and they are quite prolific. Some places its quite common to catch them in your lawnmower or run over them on the highway.
Don't try running your bare hand over a flat tire to find the puncture though.

When you live with and in nature , you have to learn to be part of nature. That doesn't mean just letting animals run over you , either.

Or putting your hand in the hen coop while gathering eggs to get a handful of Bull snake in there eating eggs...
I dont really see much work for rattle snake defenders.

"Bitch stepped on me your honor, so I biteded her"
"She squated out here in the middle of the Mojave desert to pee,, so I bit her butt"
"Stupid tourist was doing his Steve Irwin imatation and picked me up whilst I was napping, so I bit his nose"
"Yes, I did a premeditated striking at the idjet from the city who thought it was cleaver to poke me with a stick"
"I proved that the the premise of 'Oh its not very big, how poisioneous can it be" is more than just thought and conjecture."
lol

I sympathise with the intent of the referendum but think its a cack-handed way of going about animal protection and animal rights. Most countries have legislation on animal welfare and protection. It varies in strength, enforcement is patchy and sometimes half hearted. Does that remind you of the waft of legislation which is intended to protect a single species of naked ape? If we cant get ourselves sorted how the hell can we ever hope to protect the animal world? We certainly have to try, and on both counts get down to improving how we manage things and what we do, and provide the resources so that we do things much better. If we fail, then the world, humanity and the natural world will be much the poorer..

You know, apparently people who abuse animals are more likely to abuse people, too. So animal abuse IS pretty damned serious.

On the other hand, animals with lawyers are pretty damned hilarious.

DB :bipride:

Marie, I'm all for control of any insect, reptile, amphibian, mammal, marsupial, if the numbers increase and unnaturally, so that they become a threat to other wild life, the environment, humans. A tiger, which turns man eater, needs to be got rid of.....not only it being a threat to the human population, but to other tigers, who may get killed, when the poor things have never ventured near a human.

What I found distasteful, in a documentary I watched, some years ago, was a whole community, searching out snakes, making it into some kind of jolly festival, then being thrilled, as one after another, the snakes were decapitated.

I once saw an eel (snake like enough in appearance), taken from a barrel, where it was being kept, along with other eels and just chopped into pieces, for a customer at the fishmonger's shop. That has stayed with me, for over 40 years. Nothing can excuse or condone, taking any animal and killing it, in such a fashion. Nothing.

By the way, Marie, I do happen to live in a country area, so living with nature does come my way. I've had to put traps out for many a field mouse, because I had rabbits and guinea pigs. I didn't like doing it, because the field mouse is not vermin, but they do carry diseases which could possibly have killed my animals. I took no pleasure in seeing their dead bodies.

Had to shoosh away a country rat, too, who was smaller than my guinea pigs. That was done with noise only audible to him/her.

''Or putting your hand in the hen coop while gathering eggs to get a handful of Bull snake in there eating eggs...
I dont really see much work for rattle snake defenders.

"Bitch stepped on me your honor, so I biteded her"
"She squated out here in the middle of the Mojave desert to pee,, so I bit her butt"
"Stupid tourist was doing his Steve Irwin imatation and picked me up whilst I was napping, so I bit his nose"
"Yes, I did a premeditated striking at the idjet from the city who thought it was cleaver to poke me with a stick"
"I proved that the the premise of 'Oh its not very big, how poisioneous can it be" is more than just thought and conjecture."
lol ''

Cat......and your point is? I think this rattle snake defender...and defender of countless other things....will see much work...much work indeed. I really do not see the point of that remark.....who/whatever it was aimed at. If it was humour, then it passed me by, especially the part mentioning Steve Irwin.....and I have a very good sense of humour...very good.

1) Cat - I am struggling to decide which comment to offer
a) you can sit on my face anytime in the desert
b) a strong desire to bite your bum is not limited to snakes

2) "....But your Honour, in my defence, I caught him hugging MY tree"

3) Animals were prosecuted in French Courts of Law of the Middle Ages and thus had defence lawyers it would appear. Worrying that, at the time, one case was of a 'Declaration of Buggery' where 'The cohabitation of a Christian with a Jewess was declared to be sodomy' this in the context of "The Criminal Prosecution and Capital Punishment of Animals" (through the ages). However, in the same context, there is also mention of Pope Steven VI putting the cadaver of a previous Pope on trial.

Doh!

Cat......and your point is?

Yes, it Was an attempt at my brand of humor. Most got it. :rolleyes:
Cat

1) Cat - I am struggling to decide which comment to offer
a) you can sit on my face anytime in the desert
b) a strong desire to bite your bum is not limited to snakes


LOL Thank you Heph. I appreciate that. Muah to your cheek.
Blushing Cat

I'm not sure animals need to be represented in court. It would be impossible for a lawyer to present his client's thoughts and feelings in the matter, and so I think that a lawyer in this case would be pointless. I think it should be up to the Judge overseeing the case to review the police evidence concerning the case and decide whether an animal attack might have been provoked or not and if any sort of abuse took place. Perhaps neither party should be allowed a lawyer, just to even things up.

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

Cat......and your point is?

Yes, it Was an attempt at my brand of humor. Most got it. :rolleyes:
Cat

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Most?........but not all?.......Gee...guess not on my own there!
Oh, I got it, just didn't find it funny...and you only quoted five words from my post! Ah, well....rolls your eyes back atcha...:bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::eek:

nit pick much? ;)

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Originally Posted by rissababynta

nit pick much? ;)

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No Rissa, not really. Not really.

Uh huh

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Originally Posted by rissababynta

Uh huh

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LOL...that reminds me of a song.....''Uh huh, Oh, No.....don't let the rain come down, my roof's got a hole in it and I might drown''

That's all I remember of it.

I'm falling asleep and now you have my mind racing in different directions....thinking about all sorts of things.

Tangents, tangents.....heading off on one and then returning to base camp.

More coffee needed.....I think.

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Originally Posted by Canticle

No Rissa, not really. Not really.

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Wotchit u..me ver anti Nitist.. am memba a the anti-nitzi league an will hav me lawyer on u!!.. hav an x bf who is a lawyer..he is a heid bummer in the Scottish Solicitors against Nitism..will hav 'im on ya ifya not careful!!!:eek:

:tong:;)

Was going through some emails and followed this link from a story in Reader's Digest.

Shakes head and goes off to name a cow and purchase some tequila.

http://improbable.com/ig/ig-pastwinners.html

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Originally Posted by darkeyes

Wotchit u..me ver anti Nitist.. am memba a the anti-nitzi league an will hav me lawyer on u!!.. hav an x bf who is a lawyer..he is a heid bummer in the Scottish Solicitors against Nitism..will hav 'im on ya ifya not careful!!!:eek:

:tong:;)

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lmao ... lol.

Send him to me, I need a good lawyer

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Originally Posted by darkeyes

Wotchit u..me ver anti Nitist.. am memba a the anti-nitzi league an will hav me lawyer on u!!.. hav an x bf who is a lawyer..he is a heid bummer in the Scottish Solicitors against Nitism..will hav 'im on ya ifya not careful!!!:eek:

:tong:;)

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Having recently awoken.....again....and had yet another mug of coffee...it took me a couple of reads of your post, Fran, before I was with it enough to roar with laughter (and there's me thinking that the only funny person to be produced by Scotland, was Chick Murray :tong:).

Aaaaarrrrgggghhhh..do not mention those beastly creatures, which, thankfully, I have had only one experience of.....little females tending to put their heads together more (if that makes sense), than little males, when working and playing together, at school. I remember my daughter's cries, as I washed her hair.....''Are the nasty things all gone now, Mummy.''

Those darn creatures are so intelligent, they probably do have legal representation....unlike other pests.....my 9 year charge, to me, when walking her home from school..''Someone at school has worms''....''Well, don't mention any names, please''.......''It was.....'' And a few days later....''I've had worms, too''

Don't ya just luvem!!

a

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Originally Posted by Canticle

Having recently awoken.....again....and had yet another mug of coffee...it took me a couple of reads of your post, Fran, before I was with it enough to roar with laughter (and there's me thinking that the only funny person to be produced by Scotland, was Chick Murray :tong:).

Aaaaarrrrgggghhhh..do not mention those beastly creatures, which, thankfully, I have had only one experience of.....little females tending to put their heads together more (if that makes sense), than little males, when working and playing together, at school. I remember my daughter's cries, as I washed her hair.....''Are the nasty things all gone now, Mummy.''

Those darn creatures are so intelligent, they probably do have legal representation....unlike other pests.....my 9 year charge, to me, when walking her home from school..''Someone at school has worms''....''Well, don't mention any names, please''.......''It was.....'' And a few days later....''I've had worms, too''

Don't ya just luvem!!

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Actually met Chic Murray a few times wen me wos wee.. 'e wos m8s wiv me Grandad an still hav an ole haff crown wich e' gave me wen 'e 1st saw me in me pram.. 'e crossed me palm wiv silver, an ole tradition (in Scotland ne way) for new babbas for luck an that silver wos a haff crown..me bro an sis also hav haff crowns e' gave them.. me dad still says "typical a the ole bugga.. handin out dosh peeps cant spend!" Half crowns (also known as a haff dollar) wer worth the equivalent a 12.5p wen old money wos replaced by new bak in the 70's. Soz.. useless piece a info.. will shurrup..always wos a name dropper.. tee hee:tong:

Since ya like the ole nit (tee hee... joke..soz..) so much Canticle..thotya mite like a few a 'is funnies...

dunno bout funny.. corny more like ..but sum raise a lil smile..:tong:http://www.valebowlingclub.co.uk/Chic_Murray.htm

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Originally Posted by darkeyes

Since ya like the ole nit (tee hee... joke..soz..) so much Canticle..thotya mite like a few a 'is funnies...

dunno bout funny.. corny more like ..but sum raise a lil smile..:tong:http://www.valebowlingclub.co.uk/Chic_Murray.htm

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Thanks Fran. Was nice to read some of his ''one liners,'' again. I was trying to put the voice to them, as I read. I know that when I was a kid he was very popular and I always liked to watch him..then he seemed to disappear and I used to wonder what had happened to him. If I remember correctly, he only died a few years back.

Of course my all time favourite, has to be Tommy Cooper. I don't know of anyone who will not smile, if one says, ''Tommy Cooper.'' And Ken Dodd.

Ahh...half-crowns. I remember them well. My grandmother used to give me half a crown each week. I didn't get pocket money, so it felt like one had a lot of money. And yeah, half a dollar....that's what we called half a crown...harping back to the days when the the value of the British Pound was fixed at $4 American Dollars to the Pound...hence....5 Shillings got called a Dollar, etc.

Decimalisation......February 15th 1971! How do I remember? All those BBC ads to tell people about it...''Decimalisation, decimalise, decimalisation will change your lives. Decimalisation, decimalise, decimalisation....decimal five.'' Five minute ads. Two workmen played by two actors, one who would become very famous. I remember saying to my Mum. ''That guy is going places.'' He did...it was Bob Hoskins!

I also remember that date, because my grandmother died on the 6th Feb and there was a Postal Strike.

Oh....you've got me remembering all sorts of things about that year, now.

'Cordin 2 Wiki 'e died in 1985 jus afta New Year.. don memba it at all an don even memba me Granpa talkin bout it.. no real reason me shud is ther me spose.. hardly memba 'im at all cept as a nice ole guy who spoke very quickly in a sorta clipped manna an used 2 give me Smarties..

mmmmmmm wud die for Smarties... almos did 1ce wen me nicked me sistas...:bigrin: well moren 1ce me seems 2 recall.. tee hee:tong:

Tommy Cooper?? E's the big ugli guy who wore a fez.. a comic magician wosn 'e? Think me mum is a big fan.. or wos...didn 'e die on stage or summat?

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Originally Posted by darkeyes

'Cordin 2 Wiki 'e died in 1985 jus afta New Year.. don memba it at all an don even memba me Granpa talkin bout it.. no real reason me shud is ther me spose.. hardly memba 'im at all cept as a nice ole guy who spoke very quickly in a sorta clipped manna an used 2 give me Smarties..

mmmmmmm wud die for Smarties... almos did 1ce wen me nicked me sistas...:bigrin: well moren 1ce me seems 2 recall.. tee hee:tong:

Tommy Cooper?? E's the big ugli guy who wore a fez.. a comic magician wosn 'e? Think me mum is a big fan.. or wos...didn 'e die on stage or summat?

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1985!!!!!!!!!.......Lordy!...That shows just how quickly the years pass! I was 30!!......Yikes!!

Smarties.....and Munchies and Mintolas..........

Tommy did indeed, die on stage, Fran....1989...............sighs

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

Proof positive that Someone had consumed a little too much Swiss Chocolate today.......lol

.– Sun Mar 7, 12:59 pm ET
GENEVA – The result was emphatic: Swiss voters don't think abused animals need to have their own lawyers.

It's a proposal that would never even come near a referendum in other countries, but the measure's defeat Sunday disappointed animal rights advocates, who say Switzerland's elaborate animal welfare laws aren't being enforced.
Opponents of the proposal, including key farmers' groups and the government, had argued that existing laws are sufficient and appointing special lawyers to act on behalf of animals would be unnecessarily expensive for taxpayers. (Not to mention that they didnt want their fees to be paid in cream and cheese)


"The Swiss people have clearly said our animal protection laws are so good we don't need animal lawyers," Jakob Buechler, a lawmaker for the centrist Christian People's Party, told Swiss television SF1. (Lawyer? We don' need no stinkin' Lawyers. Or unscented ones, either, evidently)

Official results showed that 70.5 percent of voters cast their ballot against the proposal to extend nationwide a system that has been in place in Zurich since 1992. Some 29.5 percent of voters backed the proposal, with turnout at just over 45 percent.

According to the country's only animal lawyer, Antoine F. Goetschel, public prosecutors are often unsure about animal rights and shy away from pursuing cases even if there is clear evidence of abuse. He said the cost of Sunday's measure would have been less than 1 Swiss franc ($1) per person a year.

Tiana Angelina Moser, a lawmaker for the Green Liberal Party, said animal rights advocates would look for other ways to make sure laws against animal abuse are properly applied and those who hurt animals receive appropriate punishment. (Atta Girl)

"It's definitely disappointing, I thought it would have been a closer vote," said Moser. "I don't think it's a 'no' to animal protection, but a 'no' for this particular measure."

Switzerland tightened its laws two years ago and now has among the strictest rules anywhere when it comes to caring for pets and farm animals.

The country's 160-page animal protection law states exactly how much space owners must give Mongolian gerbils. (233 square inches) and what water temperature is required for African clawed frogs. (18-22 degrees Celsius; 64-72 degrees Fahrenheit) Hey, Gerbils need their space and frogs dont wanna become soup, I can understand that)

It stipulates that pigs, budgies, goldfish and other social animals cannot be kept alone. Horses and cows must have regular exercise outside their stalls and dog owners have to take a training course to learn how to properly look after their pets. Unless the pets have had previous owners and know how to train their humans in a proper manner)

Like in other countries, the law also forbids killing animals in a cruel fashion or for fun. (Ok now this one I agree with whole heartedly)

Swiss daily Tribune de Geneve reported earlier this year that a woman who decapitated four chickens and left their heads on the doorstep of her love rival received a 90-day suspended sentence. Former fan of Ozzie Osbourne no doubt)

Goetschel said he represents about 150-200 animals annually in Zurich, while in other cantons (states), only a handful of cases go to court each year.

Most of his clients are dogs, cows and cats, Goetschel told The Associated Press in a recent interview. Many cases involve the serious abuse of animals, such as deliberate wounding, rape and neglect. Cant be constituted as rape if said animal is 3 years old and at age of concent and didnt say "Naaaaw")

But in one high-profile case last month, Goetschel represented a dead pike after an animal protection group accused the angler who caught it of cruelty for taking 10 minutes to haul the fish in.

The angler was found not guilty, and the Pike was delicious. :rolleyes:

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Your just kidding around for those that bite on the post and get snagged in.

nice post - Cat

lol TY Gray, and I'm glad that some got my poke at humor over such insanity.:}
Cat

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

lol TY Gray, and I'm glad that some got my poke at humor over such insanity.:}
Cat

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Actually, Cat....when re-reading your first post, it is fairly obvious, to anyone, that most of the laws in Switzerland, referring to animals, make a lot of sense. Some animals cannot be left on their own, to lead solo lives, no matter how much they are loved and cared for. Guinea Pigs cannot....and I know quite a bit about Guinea Pigs. They get lonely, for they are sociable animals and when my Guinea Pig, Martha, died, just before Christmas, a new friend was needed for her housemate, Beatrice. Both animals are happy..alone they would sit quietly and not be so lively.

Very much the same goes for most other animals, especially if they interact best, with one another, in a social group. It's a lonely life, stuck in a stable, field, small paddock, cage or fish tank, if there is no other living thing to communicate with....even an animal from another species.

Obviously, these laws, to protect animals can be taken to the extreme....and therein lies the humour. The absurd things, which lawyers, different groups, individuals, will try to read into these laws.

Ardent animal activists will go to extremes and think that they are doing the right thing, by releasing mink, from a mink farm, into the wild. The animals, terrified, will fight one another and those which escape, into the wild, will kill the indigenous wildlife.

From one extreme to another!

In Sweden and Denmark, bestiality is legal.......as long as the animal is not traumatised. One has to ask...who decides when an animal is traumatised or not. Locally, a few years back, a farmer in my neck of the woods was fined heavily and banned from keeping animals.....the conditions, in which they were kept, were filthy and Ahem!...he was doing things with sheep and goats, that were rather illegal. Some months later, he was caught keeping goats and a police officer visited him....and caught the ex-farmer...standing behind a goat, trousers around his ankles. His excuse....he was making the goat feel more comfortable!

There is, indeed, humour to be found, in the absurdity of many laws..but I reckon that the Swiss have got it fairly right. After all....a cat that has been de-clawed, a dog which has had it's vocal chords severed, or an animal being kept in cramped or filthy conditions, deserves to be protected by the law of the land, within which they live.