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We all know bi people have worse mental and physical health stats than either gay or straight people; and we make a lower income than both as well. Individually we might be fine but collectively we average out pretty poorly.
In the US there are healthcare reforms being argued about. They look set to only make things worse for us.
Read a report on that here
You sound like a professional victim.Quote:
Originally Posted by bi-news
Obama care was a lie and total disaster.
ALL the bisexuals we know including us are happy, non mentally ill people, and we make just as much money or more than our hetero and gay/lez Co workers.
Government should never have been involved in Health Care in the first place....
Thank you Bi-news for another interesting article.
Government should always be involved in health care making sure that health care is fit for purpose, and as best it can be.. just about all of the 36 health care systems which rank higher than the US have massive government involvement. I have, and no doubt will again argue for a publicly owned publicly funded health service paid for by national insurance contributions by the population at large with no charge at point of use at times of need... hell, it saved my life more than once, helps keep me healthy, allowed me maternity care throughout my pregnancy and post natal care after my daughter was born... it provides health care for my child and any medicines she may require are free of charge..services available to all who are citizens and their dependants... as is the whole gambit of NHS services.. the UK is not the best health care service on the planet but at about 18 is pretty high up the list and is considered to be about the most cost effective and efficient of all....I would argue that government should always be involved in health care.. like with so many things, the market cannot be trusted to self regulate and it is governments job to ensure that affordable and good health care is available to all in every country.. how that is done is for each country to decide but government cannot be allowed to abrogate its responsibility to its people by depriving any of good safe health care in times of need.. we elect our parliament or legislatures and our governments to protect the people among other things... and part of that protection is in respect of health care.Quote:
Originally Posted by csreef
When Obamacare was enacted in the US, basically it decimated the health care industry, and thousands have lost their jobs, and many insurance companies have filed for bankruptcy, and been dissolved.
America is not a place for socialized medicine. People that don't have health care coverage do not go untreated, and people and not dropping dead like flies in the street.
Whatever the truth or the US system, it is found wanting.. every system is and always shll be but of all wealthy nations the US brings up the rear.. wherever there are human beings there is a place.. no, a need for what u call socialised health care..:)
There should never be socialized anything in this country. Things have gotten so out of control with entitlements and corruption. Our country was founded by people who wanted to be free from government control and to be able to live the way we want and do what we want without over regulation and government mandates. People from other countries either don't know or don't understand this. And it seems since government got involved in our schools many of our own children don't either. While I agree healthcare is a problem I believe the private sector is far more capable of solving it than the government. Especially since the government can only fund what we the taxpayers pay for. Some act like there's some magic money tree that funds the government. And government run healthcare is funding things like sex change operations for convicted convicts and breast enhancement and plastic surgeries for women on welfare I just don't think the government is responsible enough to run healthcare.
The government has been running the VA hospitals since 1930 and look what a mess that is. If after 87 yrs. they can't run those right why would you trust them with your families healthcare? As a Vietnam Vet. I can tell you I would never go to a VA hospital by choice.
What have you been smoking??? I have worked as a medical professional for 30 years now and I saw non of what you describe. We are building hospitals at a furious rate everywhere and the insurance industry is doing just fine. Their biggest problem has been how to lobby their way back in to fucking everyone with a pre-existing condition like back in the Good Old Days.
WHAT!? WTF!? :yikes2: Be careful making flaming generalizations like that! You are SO dead wrong! I have an Associates degree, two Bachelor of Science degrees, and an MBA. I make a six-figure income. Yes I have some health issues, but they are GENETIC or age-related and have NOTHING to do with my lifestyle. AND the bulk of my bi friends are in the same position as I; emotionally stable, financially secure, and very happy with their position in life.Quote:
Originally Posted by bi-news
The report is very easy to dissect and discredit. According to the report; "...15% of LGBTQ adults still need health insurance compared to 7% of non-LGBTQ adults.”
LGBTQ makes up roughly only 5% of the general population. 15% of the 5% is a minuscule number compared to the number represented by 7% of the general population. When that ratio is applied to the remaining arguments in the report, the numbers just don't add up.
I am a firm believer, and I believe history has shown, that if you want something FUBAR, give it to our Federal Government to manage. As a population we should NEVER have allowed our government to take over healthcare.
I will argue against socialized medicine until I am blue in the face or dead in my grave. Socialized medicine eliminates the motivations that provide for excellence in healthcare. A shitty doctor or medical facility makes the same money as a top notch doctor or medical facility. Incomes for doctors in general decline. Look at Canada as an example. There is a shortage of health care providers. There is a long line of Canadians at our border waiting to get healthcare in the US that they cannot get in Canada, and they are willing to pay cash for it out of their pockets. There is a multitude of cases of Canadians dying from their maladies while waiting to get health care.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeyes
There were just as many Americans covered by healthcare before the ACA as after. The difference is in the numbers; who is covered by Medicaid and who has to buy their coverage. AND in the US it is, and always has been, illegal to refuse medical care to a person in need based on the inability to pay for it.
In a socialized system there is only one guarantee; eventually the taxes required to fund socialized benefits consumes the income of those required to fund it and the system fails. Do you suppose Greece and Venezuela might be prime examples?
Keep your damn socialized medicine!
Our VA system is a sad state of affairs. One of my ex-wives worked in a VA hospital and the stories she brought home were horrendous.Quote:
Originally Posted by elmwood7
Our veterans and their families should never want for ANYTHING! They have paid a high price in sacrifice to our country. Our veterans should get the VERY BEST in healthcare with NO LIMITS. Our veterans and their families should get FREE education, 0% interest mortgages, and anything else they need to make their lives whole and complete. I am ASHAMED at they way our veterans have been treated by our government. Our government will give a worthless POS who contributes NOTHING and is a leech to our society free medical, housing assistance, food stamps...the list goes on, and yet deny a veteran because they don't meet some silly-ass criteria dreamed-up by some worthless scum-sucking politician.
Whoops! You got me started. I'll get off of my soap box. And, by the way, I am NOT a veteran! Never even served in the military.
No health care system is perfect wherever it is and however it is run... but it is interesting that at a world ranking of 37, the US system is far more costly to the "customer" and generally far less efficient than those more egalitarian "socialised" systems higher up the world rankings... publicly funded health services have many problems and they are huge very often... but for most who fall ill, the advantage is that there are no medical bills to worry. As for Greece and Venezuela, it is true that in the case of Venezuela the health service is of a lower overall quality than the US but it isn't an abject failure.. and for all Greece's problems economically its health service is less costly, more efficient and of an overall better quality than either the US, Germany, Israel or the UK..it wasn't the health services which created the economic problems for either country but problems of a much greater complexity and general scope. Greed, corruption.. incompetence to name but a few. U keep the American system if u must.. it is ur pocket that is being emptied by US health care far more than mine is by the system which has done me so well over the last 37 years ...Quote:
Originally Posted by bw299
Exactly. We believe that Obama and his family and all of the politicians who voted for the disaster known as Obama care should have been forced to use Obama care for their medical insurance for the rest of their lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by csreef
We know many doctors and other medical professionals who hate Obamacare and all socialized medicine as it forces them to treat their patients not as people, but as numbers or a quota, the care for their patients suffers, and they are forced to fill out all sort of unnecessary forms and paperwork which takes time away from what really matters like being with patients that need help.
There are fundamental differences in various country's attitude. You either care for your fellow citizens or you do not. As darkeyes points out no system is perfect. If you do not see the need for maintaining universal health care for all citizens, people from the country's who do question why you have a country if not to provide to provide services that all can benefit from? Whether it is a form of health care, transportation roads, education or other services: some services are considered so basic that there should be no fee and paid for from the taxpayers. Why is defense considered universal need that all must pay but not health care?
While I don't agree with our resident troll's assessment that you are playing the victim, I do think the stats regarding bisexuals being worse off than other segments of the population are sketchy at best.
In regards to the broader conversation of Obamacare and socialized medicine, I'll only add a couple of points that probably go without saying.
First, the most cost efficient healthcare insurance system in this country is Medicare. It's socialize medical care. It's been around for 50 years and, as anyone who is on it knows, it beats the hell out or pretty much everything else that's available.
Second, the idea that the health costs and the Healthcare industry was doing fine before Obamacare is just plain silly. Costs were going up before Obamacare and they went up (slower) after Obamacare. The only difference is that for a little while people had a scapegoat to blame their problems on.
Personally I would love to see them scrap Obamacare in favor of a single-payer system, but that's just my opinion. And opinions are like asses. Everyone has one - but some look better than others :-)
Often enough, I need to inform a patient they are going to need an operation, expensive testing, or likely need to take expensive drugs, possibly for the rest of their life or all of the above. Then, I ask if they have medical insurance. Before, Obamacare, I received a lot of NO answers. Which of course means they were now totally SCREWED, because they now a have a preexisting condition. Which would make it impossible, or prohibitively expensive to get insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by pole_smoker
With Obamacare in place, I get much fewer NO answers than before and preexisting conditions are not as big of a problem.
Also, any doctor that cares less about his patients that require more paperwork, I would not want to be my doctor. Care for patients is determined by what is in the heart, not the bank account.
The flip side of that buffalo nickel is that man insurers fled O'bamaCare BECAUSE of being forced to accept and insure pre-existing conditions. It's called "adverse selection" in risk management in the insurance industry. Medical insurance companies are no different than any other company; they are in business for one reason and one reason only...to make a profit. O'BamaCare made it impossible or difficult for many companies in the industry to be profitable, so they got out.Quote:
Originally Posted by jem_is_bi
Also, of those who gave you "No" answers to the question, "Do you have medical insurance?, I'm sure most, if not all, of them were on Medicaid. Medicaid is a form of medical insurance, so the "No" answer was not totally correct. They had coverage, maybe not the best coverage, but they had coverage.
One of the slight of hand tricks committed by O'BamaCare; not more people insured that didn't have insurance, more people PAYING for their own insurance versus using Medicaid.
Actually---it seems to me a system that the US could model for health care is the sort of hybrid system that they have in Germany. I have a few friends who moved to Germany just to be a part of that system--first off--they learned how to be totally proficient in the German language and as such they got 100 percent FREE college tuition--not one dime in debt to get it--just be totally verbally and visually fluent in the language and they got very good jobs, the guy in a technical field--making industrial glass, his wife, working in finance and they do very, very well in one of the most robust economies in the world.
For their health care, they do buy it from a private company, but the government does set a number of standards that those private insurance companies must meet and provide with one of the biggest ones being--the level of top CEO pay is capped at a set percentage--far less than what CEOs can make here since we don't cap such pay. I don't know what the top number is for both the US and Germany but I am sure that no matter what it is--the CEOs of the German insurance companies do quite well.
The government also caps off how much the pharmaceutical companies can charge for medications and they also seem to do quite well--since most of the companies we have here, also operate there and vice versa.
You do have levels of plans that run from fairly basic based on what a person can afford or simply wants to spend--but even with the most basic of plans--they provide for a complete FREE yearly full pop health exam and if they find some budding health issue--they are proactive and not reactive like we are. They send you out for no or modest cost to find out and treat health issues while the cost of doing so is low and the health outcome most likely leading to be a positive one which is good for the person and good for the economy in that a little money is spent to deal with a budding health issue--rather than spend all kinds of money on dealing with an acute or chronic health issue that didn't need to reach that point.
Our system is pretty much "Penny Wise, Pound Foolish."
One example my friend shared with me was a non-life threatening situation, but as an example of the way things work over there, the last time I saw him, a few years before that, he had a tooth go bad that required a root canal and later a crown to be put on the dead tooth.
When it came time for the crown, they offer FOR FREE the standard crown that is made of porcelain---and of course if you want gold which is standard-you can pay for that---I think he said that was like a $150 American for the gold one--but they offered him the ultimate crown---one made of titanium---the cost of that?? $250 US equivalent!! I don't even know if they offer that metal over here, but if it is, I bet it is not that cheap!!
Guess what sort of cap he got??? The one made from Titanium!!!
Last year I got a gold crown--since I don't have insurance coverage for dental---out of my pocket for the whole deal--oh yeah--his root canal--FREE!!! My total bill for the root canal and gold crown--over two grand out of pocket!!!
They each have their own insurance policies---he is in good health--and he pays like less than a thousand a year TOTAL--never any deductibles--his wife-since she is an executive type--her company gives her the money for her plan and that money they provide allows her to get one of the top level plans offered in Germany---which if she did pay it herself, might run like around five grand for the whole deal, but for that, SHE PAYS NOTHING for any medical treatment. She did get breast cancer a few years back- but never paid even the German equivalent of a penny for all that treatment. The government also didn't tax her for that company contribution to cover her health care plan.
Sounds to me like we could to the best degree possible--replicate what they have done in Germany----and you cannot say that what they have done has hurt the German economy or productivity--the facts show quite the opposite. Germany is the engine that drives the entire EU as things now stand.
It does get me--so many of our people we have put into elected office in this nation--hold some pretty damned backward ideas with one of them being that Darwin's Theory of Evolution is so much bunk--but when it comes to the social structure--they believe very strongly in "Social Darwinism" in the form of "Survival of the Fittest" (mostly of the economic sort)
You can't look at tuition or health care in another country without looking at other factors. For example Germany's tax-to-GDP rate is around 36%, compared to the US at 26%. Plus Germans pay almost twice as much in VAT tax as the highest American sales tax.
and yes, we pay a lot more for pharmaceuticals here in the US, but we also lead in drug innovations. If you push the price of drugs down, you take innovation away. I'm not saying we should continue to fund world-wide innovations by keeping drug prices high, just that there's a flip side to everything.
If there is one thing I learned in my International Economics class in college it's that everything reached equilibrium eventually with pluses and minuses on one side balancing the same on the other.
That's the problem with Socialism. Socialists think that money/benefits are the fruits of ever-bearing trees when the real provider is the working tax-payer who gets taxed out the ass to provide everyone else's benefits. The provider doesn't get anything extra and eventually that well dries up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher South
No, they did not have any coverage with Medicad. Often, I encouraged them to try to get Medicaid coverage. Now, in Michigan, with Obamacare expanded Medicaid coverage, that is much easier to get than before. I do not understand the flip-side argument unless you believe they should not receive any treatment and suffer from terrible losses of health.Quote:
Originally Posted by bw299
No, my argument isn't that they shouldn't have health care. My argument is that it needs to be funded AND it's got to be profitable for the insurer or it isn't going to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by jem_is_bi
The fact that your patients didn't have Medicaid when they qualified for it was a fault of the system. If we can prove we have medical coverage through the IRS process than we sure as hell can enroll people for Medicaid through that same process when they qualify for it.
Obamacare was Unconstitutional, and full of lies. Also Obama is the worst president in American history. Obama is a tyrant.
That was a great Article to read for sure. I think the main issue in the US is that most people don't look for insurances that will allow them to feel less stressed about possible negative outcomes in the future. I mean if you look at the pandemic and in general the healthcare system you're not in a safe spot even with a 400 K plan. Of course looking for an insurance provider is also quite tricky at the point that you might get a bad plan that you cannot easily change or recover from. I was reading the other day another interesting article from lifeinsuranceblog.net regarding how important is the age itself when we choose our plans.
that's actually a fact. I was talking the other day with a good friend of mine that happens to be a licensed insurance agent and he told me the exact same story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemay
Here in Texas and as a medical professional I have seen nothing like what you are describing. Large new hospitals are being built everywhere in Houston and we have a pretty robust public health system.Quote:
Originally Posted by csreef
Do not confuse Health *Care* with Health *Insurance* - they are, by definition, unrelated.
Health Care should be discussions and decisions between a Dr. and Patient.
Health Insurance is merely a payment method. Thus the name of a closer to appropriate law was titled Affordable Care Act, it has to do with paying for health care for all in the USA. Unfortunately, politicians and special interests corrupted a focused law into a typically overstuffed law. In part, so there would be a fight over it, and a means to discredit each other at every turn. As usual, a valid government effort to improve lives has been politicized to divide and eventually allow the big business of insurance companies to gain more power and money while the bulk of Americans suffer.
i don't mind this. i just do not think we should be, spelling might be wrong, penalized for not having it.
Yes, because they always wants to be on safer side.Quote:
Originally Posted by csreef