Article re: circumcision

Shy, Fran is awesome. She gets a mite aggressive at times but at least she doesn't cast insults to prove her point.

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Originally Posted by mikey3000

Besides I have a huge mistrust issue with the medical establishment as of late. If my forskin was used to help find a cure for some disease, all the better. But lately, the focus of finding cures for diseases has gone by the wayside in favour of managing and controllint the disease. Remeber people there is no $$$ in curing disease, but there is plenty in managing it.

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You've hit the nail on the head. Medicine is all about profit margins. Pharmaceuticals keep making money as long as they keeep the population sick and in ill health. Isn't this what we should be fighting? Not each other over a piece of skin on our cocks? Well, it may be more than that, but nothing is more important than banding together en masse and stopping the disease care system that is rampant among us because the pharmaceuticals and agri-business supposedly know what's best for us and we know jack-shit.

Just think, years from now, our species will be extinct because we were too stupid to get our priorities straight and we were too busy fighting amongst each other. And we thought good always won out over evil.

Kudos also to tenni and TwylaTwobits.

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

Thanks for the Kudos, but I have to disagree. Fran is not one of the trolls. That I disagree with her, and vehemently, doesn't change that. She is not fake. She honestly believes what she believes and she is warm, and caring.

She's also daft on a few issues, but if you ask her she'll say the same of me. Fran is on my top list of people from this site I want to meet in real life.

Pasa

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I do have to agree. It is very easy to agree with Fran, and it is also very easy to disagree, but she is still a great person who I believe would never be mean spirited or malicious to anyone.

Luff you Fran :-)

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

I honestly don't give a damn why you are being patronizing. When someone pats my head my first gut reaction is to break their wrist. It's rude. And I damn well won't have someone get pretentious, pat me on the head like a child, and treat me as if I'm incapable of knowing what's good for me.

You have two choices at this point. 1. Realize that you are being rude and change your behavior. 2. Continue to defend it as somehow noble and continue to be rude.

Honestly, Fran, I like you a lot. I've said so publicly and personally. But, your view of America is downright insulting at times. You spend so much time telling Americans how we should be and looking down your nose at us, as if we were children. For someone who lives in a nation that would be speaking German right now if it weren't for us, that's pretty damned funny.

Pasa

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Like u an all Pasa.. rude? can b sumtimes.. this time?? not reelly..exasperated mayb.. an tetchy.. me tries 2 reason wiv peeps but sumtimes reason dusn always work.. not that we can expect it always 2.. but for life a me jus cant undastand wy peeps r so determined 2 take decisions outa the hands a ther kids..they becum adults an responsible 2 ya kno.. an its bout time peeps sat back an accepted that ther sum things ya shudn take away from ya kids.. an parta ther mos personal bits for reasons otha than pressin medical need is 1a them.. yas deprivin THEM a choice wen they old ebnuff 2 make it...

..hav in anotha thread ansad the german speakin bit ...do a lil checkin pasa.. cos woot u sez is an arrogance in itsel..:eek:

.. an course wen me c's ( or thinks me c's) summat wrong wiv ne wer me will say so an say how me thinks they shud b.. u think me concentrates on the US? On this site mayb cos mosta wot is discussed seems 2 b 'merican issues cos most membas r 'merican.... u oughta 'ear wot me sez bout me own country.. now thers summaat 2 conjure wiv..;)

Awwwwww God ya don haff give me red face... *blush*

Luff u lot an all.. moren ya kno..even cheeky sods like Pasa who hav temerity 2 argify wiv me.. tee hee..

Now we hav big party goin on 'ere an wile me luffs ya oodles an oodles.. me promised me m8 a dance an its ovadue.. muaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

Dus luff ya.. reelly..:female::bipride::)

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Originally Posted by shybipinay

More kudos here.

Sorry Franny, you're on our ignore list as are all the "fake" handles on this thread.

As for the "side note", we listed the "fake" handles in an earlier post on this thread.

How does it feel to be talking to a brick wall?

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This niggled a wee bit.. bein thot of as a troll or fake.. wy? No justification.. its ok in a sense.. am not angry.. but cos I differ from u about summat that means a great deal 2 me I becum a "fake" or a troll.. peeps can iggy me all they like.. wudn b the 1st an no doubt won b the last time..

...but its sad.. its sad cos it says that peeps only wanna hear ther side's case.. they don wanna lissen 2 the otha.. they don like home truths.. an for alla me faults.. the 1 thing me has always encouraged is peeps takin issue wiv every word me has eva written.. thats wot freedom a speech means.. thats wot democracy an freedom a expression is 'bout..

.. hav been a memba a this site almos since its incepotion an used 2 frequent its predecessor from time 2 time.. an hav luffed it..an hav luffed..an do luff so many wondaful amazin peeps.. lotsa whom me has fell out wiv verbally at 1 time or totha..fell out wiv verbally..an quite vehemently an all.. but very very rarely personally.. it has happened..an it has hurt..an don escape me own responisbility for it..

.. but "fake"? Jeez.. we all hav perceptions a how peeps r.. am lotsa things.. but nowt me has ev sed has been fake.. it cums from the soul.. hav passion for the causes in wich me believes.. me nev says owt me dusn believe.. fact that me differs in opinion from peeps don make me a fake ne more than me own perception a wot they say makes them so..

Me has a peculiar view a the world an all its wondas.. an this "fake".. or "troll" ifya prefer will b bak beatin 'er drum wetha Shy or ne 1 else puts 'er on iggie or not!!!!:)

QL, Dude, You talking like you personally discovered dick for the entire male population. LOL!!!

Guys have been blowing eachother long before you were even thought of. And I'm only 40, same generation if you are 36. It all has to do with the social status of the crowd you move with. Not every class of people can or would talk freely about their buddy's penis. It just isn't proper in polite society.

I have one question about all that.... do you speak for all males.... or just regard your opinion to apply to all males ?

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

Bullshit. No damage inflicted here. I have a perfectly working penis. I get great pleasure from it, and have been told I am at least capable with it's use. No grief here either other than that I could hve been blessed with an inch or two more in length. But, we can't have everything.

I'll tell you the same thing I told Fran. Pat my head and tell me I don't know any better and I'll break your fucking wrist. I'll further tell you the following as I said before: If you wish to say these things in the comfort of your computer chair, how about saying them to my face? I'll be more than happy to PM you my address. I'm betting, however, you're a pussy.

I don't consider those who are against circumcision to be heretics. I consider them to be simply of a different opinion.

I consider those who tell me I'm mutilated or that I am a monster to have done this to my three sons to be morons. I consider them to be the same morons as the Evangelical Atheists, PETA members, and anyone else who feels that they have to be insulting and proselytizing when presented with a different viewpoint. I mean, honestly. In this thread circumcision has been offered up as a reason for rape. REALLY? HONESTLY? Fucking morons.

Side note: Anyone who says it to my sons personally will get a physically violent reaction from me. Not your fucking job, and I'm not above giving an ass kicking to a grown man for interfering with my children. Violence doesn't solve everything, but the willingness to use it creates a more civil society. And you will be civil where my sons are concerned.

At this point, it's not about the actual topic. It's about your methodology. It's about your attitude (all of you who have been insulting). It's about you, as a person, and how you treat others.

Since correlation is so loved by y'all, I'll put forth this correlation:

There is a direct correlation between those on this board who have been 'unmutilated' and those who act like assholes. Since there is a direct correlation, I'm so glad I'm cut.

Pasa

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Our feelings exactly!!!! Thanks so much for stating it so eloquently.

All of this business about made-up 'medical' reasons to be against circumcision or all of this nonsense about how it affects sexual satisfaction is just a smokescreen for the reaal reaason- prejudice. Circumcision would be as noncontroversial as having your ears pierced but for the fact that it is associated in people's minds with Jews (and in Europe, with Muslims as well).

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Originally Posted by jamieknyc

All of this business about made-up 'medical' reasons to be against circumcision or all of this nonsense about how it affects sexual satisfaction is just a smokescreen for the reaal reaason- prejudice. Circumcision would be as noncontroversial as having your ears pierced but for the fact that it is associated in people's minds with Jews (and in Europe, with Muslims as well).

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.. and that little outburst Jamie.. I find fucking offensive in the extreme.. that statement I do take personally.. that Jamie is as bad as calling parents who have had their children circumcumcised monsters, because what you are telling ME and is that I am a racist and religious bigot..

I guess my views on circumcision stem from being a nurse. I go the medical veiw of this. I know a lot of ppl think that it is not cleaner to have the forskin removed but i am sure you have never seen a boy come in who was never taught to clean his uncircumcised penis correctly. i wont go into specifics but its not pretty or health.

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Originally Posted by topheavynurse

I guess my views on circumcision stem from being a nurse. I go the medical veiw of this. I know a lot of ppl think that it is not cleaner to have the forskin removed but i am sure you have never seen a boy come in who was never taught to clean his uncircumcised penis correctly. i wont go into specifics but its not pretty or health.

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thank you nurse, this is the type of post I like to read as it raises a lot of issues that are not addressed

over here in NZ a lot of fathers are very careful about cleaning their sons penis, as it only takes one misassumed action to result in a accusation of child molestation... if the person is a step father, then its seriously dangerous

that does make it differcult nowadays for parents to be good parents in that respect, teaching and aiding good hygiene if there is the specter of assumption hanging over their heads.....

I did notice that there were remarks about cleanliness and keeping the penis clean and I did wonder about who the person was that would teach the child to keep it clean.... as if I was a person that was teaching a child how to get themselves clean, I would never admit to it on a forum ..... misunderstanding is everything and it only takes one report to make a good male parent into a father under suspicion and with the risk of losing their kids and relationship/ marriage for doing the right thing by their kids

unfortunately, in nz it has happened.... the rate of fathers that do not take care of their kids is on the rise, cos of the risks involved, and there has been cases of historical charges laid against fathers that included things like touching their kids in the bath etc... and the fathers have been jailed for it....

we are a society that is about protecting the rights of the kids... unfortunately, we do protect them from a lot of the help they need

I do understand what you are saying my husband and i have had to deal with what he can and cant do. I have 2 girls from proir to us meeting. In most cases i would assume if you were afraid of this happening and accusations being thrown it would be the mother that should teach. and the teaching should begin at a very early age. You should not wait until they are bathing themselves to teach proper hygine.

I know this is a odd request but do you have any links to sites that can help and show partners that have male uncut boys the best way to clean their penis

this would help many people more than the long winded posts by some of the other posters

Okay once again, let me just make my point. I am not saying you are wrong for being uncircumcised, don't tell me I'm wrong for having my boys circumcised. It's a personal choice. In the US the choice is offered while your son is still a newborn and in the hospital, to have it done and make sure they are peeing fine before they are discharged. I have made my choice and no amount of name calling is going to make me secondguess that choice. If my children want an explanation when they are older, I will gladly explain why I did the things I did.

3. Males who have been (choking back the 'm' word) circumcised are equally unlikely to ever be able to admit to themselves the damage inflicted. LDD is not a bad guy, but he certainly cannot come to terms with the fact he only feels half of what he should be feeling. The logic and evidence are infallible. Also is the Kübler-Ross grief cycle.

how can it be proved that I am feeling half of what I would feel if I did have a uncut penis and please, copy and paste from sites is not a measure of lack of feeling

I enjoy penetration, I love penetration, I function well as a male..... and I feel it just fine, my partner knows how touching and stroking and sucking the different parts of my penis, can give me extreme pleasure, ....

I could only grief the loss of something I have had a experience of knowing...and I have never had sex with a foreskin so I have nothing to compare it with in order for the grief cycle to take place

now I do find it very interesting that the lack of a foreskin is being compared to the grief cycle for a terminal illness and I do question how in hell a circumcision is a terminal illness...


so yeah I may have a lack of feeling in my penis, but I enjoy sex with my partner, she enjoys sex,. my penis size is fine for her, I am a functioning adult male..... and I find it hilarious that the only people that have a issue with my cock and how sex feels for me, are in a online site on the net....
yet I am being told that I do not know my own penis and that I can not be happy with my penis so logic dictates that I must be suffering from a grief cycle associated with terminal illness.....

may I say that this is the danger when people with no medical or counselling knowledge get hold of info and read it and think that they are suddenly experts in the field of medicine, surgery, counselling, religion and believe that they are the perfect parents and experts on child rearing

Iwanna, in the US only the sons are circumcised with advice of the medical profession. If I had daughters, no I wouldn't have done anything as it's not medically recommended. Furthermore I wouldn't have pierced their ears as I see some parents do, that's a personal choice as well and one I make based on information that I have or was given by medical personnel.

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Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong

I know this is a odd request but do you have any links to sites that can help and show partners that have male uncut boys the best way to clean their penis

this would help many people more than the long winded posts by some of the other posters

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No, but it's not very complicated is it? From what another poster said, in early childhood the foreskin may be fused to the penis and if it does not move down easily you should leave it alone or just occasionally try, gently, to see if it is ready to move. Once it does, all you do is slide it down and wash under it while you are in the bath. Not rocket science.

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Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits

Iwanna, in the US only the sons are circumcised with advice of the medical profession. If I had daughters, no I wouldn't have done anything as it's not medically recommended. Furthermore I wouldn't have pierced their ears as I see some parents do, that's a personal choice as well and one I make based on information that I have or was given by medical personnel.

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Twyla, for what it's worth, I support your decision and would have done the same thing. I am circumsized, and have absolutely no issues at all. Actually I'm rather happy with me, despite what some here feel I should be experiencing. So please don't sweat it. Some people feel superior when they make others feel bad, especially when they see some personal axe to grind. Just be proud that you did what you think is best for your boys, and that you didn't cave to any political agenda. Good for you.!!!