Article re: circumcision

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

Fran, I wanted to say this last night, but I wanted to sleep on it. You are being patronizing. It's insulting. Cut it out.

I'm perfectly capable of deciding whether I am happy or not being circumcised. And I am. Obviously, we are capable of that decision as there are people here who are unhappy about it. You support their feelings, and yet patronize anyone who says it's not a big deal.

There is a bunch of bullshit being spewed here about an issue that, honestly, is exactly that: no big deal.

And to anyone who honestly wants to call me some names or accuse me or mutilation, or comment about my love for my children over this issue I'll say this: You are very brave when you are sitting behind your computer. I'll lay dollars to donuts you wouldn't be so brave to my face. I'll be happy to provide an address to any who PM me wanting to prove me wrong. Like most keyboard cowboys, I'm betting you are pussies when it comes to having to back your words up.

Side note: There are a whole bunch of new profiles that have been generated all since this thread has resurrected. And they all have similar name generation styles.

Pasa

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Kudos to you

This is not bout u Pasa or ne 1 who has already been circumcised..this is bout those yet 2 b.. patronisin? o well.. sumtimes bein patronisin is a way a expressin how distasteful me finds sum things...

It seems to me that some posters are on a crusade about circumcision. Like most guys who are circumcised, I don't really think about it. It doesn't keep me up all night worry about what bastards that my parents were to me to mutilate me. If it did, I would suggest to myself to seek out counselling as I would have an issue to deal with...lol

It remains a personal choice decision. I understand that most guys are not circumcised in Europe. Is there a country that absolutely bans male circumcisions? There doesn't seem to be any country where properly done male circumcision have resulted in a conviction. There have been cases where parents have disagreed about giving permission and they ended up in court. In Australia Queensland, it has been determined that technically a doctor may be charged with assault for performing an infant male circumcision but not one doctor has been charged. Neither the State nor any individual has laid a charge.

There are examples where botched circumcisions have ended up in the court and doctors have been found liable for their mistake in a botched circumcision but none for doing what is approved as a medically correct procedure.

Guys that want to regrow their foreskin as adults are doing so for aesthetic reasons. Some claim to have regained more sensitivity but not a majority of circumcised guys in North America are even considering this procedure. There must be a reason why they don't. They see no need or no big deal. Get over yourselves is what they would tell someone who would say that they are mutilated. Oh...look that is what guys are posting here...lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_and_law

Fran
It is about us...those who have been circumcised. We are telling you to get over yourself. The male babies who are getting circumcised right now if they fast forwarded would tell you the same thing in twenty years. If they become a minority in North America, they may agree with you but it is the norm still.

Besides I have a huge mistrust issue with the medical establishment as of late. If my forskin was used to help find a cure for some disease, all the better. But lately, the focus of finding cures for diseases has gone by the wayside in favour of managing and controllint the disease. Remeber people there is no $$$ in curing disease, but there is plenty in managing it.

" For someone who lives in a nation that would be speaking German right now if it weren't for us, that's pretty damned funny."

Oh...for gawd sakes Pasa...lol

I was right with you up until this last sentence. Gee...let's not start an argument about how glorious and wonderful that the US was by "winning" da war...cuz it just is not so...except those who buy that from their government....fock sakes man...lol

It is not the norm in North America? I am referring to North America. You may know men who believe that their penis is mutilated but I know of none. Are you one of these circumcised North Americans who are angry? If you are one of these North American angry circumcised men, why not lay charges against the doctor and your parents? Test the laws or stop whinning.

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Originally Posted by QueerandLoathing

Male genital mutilation is not the "norm". Most men in the world are not cut and have intact genitals with a foreskin. Look up the numbers for circumcision worldwide and it is not universally practiced and cut men are not the "norm" like you think.

I know men who had their cocks mutilated as infants and then when they became teenagers or adults and actually learned what happened and how not everyone gets cut and how it is genital mutilation they get angry and wonder just why it had to happen to them for pointless reasons and why their parents decided this for them and they had no choice, consent, or say in the matter.

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Pasa
I think that we also have to be realistic. Most "straight" guys do not talk about their dick at all with their buddies once past 15 or so...:eek:

You know what bothers me about all the "facts and figures" quoted in this thread?? They are all skewed. How you ask? This is how I see it. 100 men are asked various questions regarding sexuality. One of those questions is "are you circumcised".

Now in the US, most of the 100 men would say yes to that question. Let's deal in round numbers here. So say 80 of the men responded they were circumcised. 80% of the men. That's about right, probably higher. Now out of those 80 men, 50 reported premature ejaculation problems. That's half the circumcised men but only 40% of the entire survey.

See what I mean about skewed data? Researches on most googled sites are in it for their own reasons. Show me one impartial study backed by people with no agenda to push and it might be fair.

To be completely honest with this, just for guys.

Answer these questions.

1. Have you had problems with premature ejaculation?
2. Do you have problems with erection failure?
3. Do you have sensitivity problems, either increased or decreased?
4. Are you circumcised?

Answer it honestly....then we'll get a better idea of what is really out their versus what is posted by people getting funding from various lobbies.

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Originally Posted by QueerandLoathing

Get out and meet more men.

Of course you are from the generation of sexually repressed men who did not even admit that they masturbated let alone were something other than heterosexual to their male friends and peers, and this attitude even carries over into today. :rolleyes:

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LOL!!! dude, I think you're a chick. You really don't have a clue.

What? How old are you?

I wrote that "straight" men do not discuss their dick amongst their friends. They will discuss it with their girlfriend wife before a male straight buddy. They may not even know if their buddies are cut or uncut, unless they have seen each other naked in the locker room. Why would they discuss it? Masturbate? Guys over 30 who are married will not discuss it with other straight guys unless they are a bit drunk and not getting any from their wife.

* waits for comment about how QL has so many straight buddies who are married who talk to him constantly about their dick and masturbating:cool:

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Originally Posted by QueerandLoathing

Get out and meet more men.

Of course you are from the generation of sexually repressed men who did not even admit that they masturbated let alone were something other than heterosexual to their male friends and peers, and this attitude even carries over into today. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by tenni

* waits for comment about how QL has so many straight buddies who are married who talk to him constantly about their dick and masturbating:cool:

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LMFAO!

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

Fran, I wanted to say this last night, but I wanted to sleep on it. You are being patronizing. It's insulting. Cut it out.

I'm perfectly capable of deciding whether I am happy or not being circumcised. And I am. Obviously, we are capable of that decision as there are people here who are unhappy about it. You support their feelings, and yet patronize anyone who says it's not a big deal.

There is a bunch of bullshit being spewed here about an issue that, honestly, is exactly that: no big deal.

And to anyone who honestly wants to call me some names or accuse me or mutilation, or comment about my love for my children over this issue I'll say this: You are very brave when you are sitting behind your computer. I'll lay dollars to donuts you wouldn't be so brave to my face. I'll be happy to provide an address to any who PM me wanting to prove me wrong. Like most keyboard cowboys, I'm betting you are pussies when it comes to having to back your words up.

Side note: There are a whole bunch of new profiles that have been generated all since this thread has resurrected. And they all have similar name generation styles.

Pasa

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More kudos here.

Sorry Franny, you're on our ignore list as are all the "fake" handles on this thread.

As for the "side note", we listed the "fake" handles in an earlier post on this thread.

How does it feel to be talking to a brick wall?

Shy, Fran is awesome. She gets a mite aggressive at times but at least she doesn't cast insults to prove her point.

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Originally Posted by mikey3000

Besides I have a huge mistrust issue with the medical establishment as of late. If my forskin was used to help find a cure for some disease, all the better. But lately, the focus of finding cures for diseases has gone by the wayside in favour of managing and controllint the disease. Remeber people there is no $$$ in curing disease, but there is plenty in managing it.

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You've hit the nail on the head. Medicine is all about profit margins. Pharmaceuticals keep making money as long as they keeep the population sick and in ill health. Isn't this what we should be fighting? Not each other over a piece of skin on our cocks? Well, it may be more than that, but nothing is more important than banding together en masse and stopping the disease care system that is rampant among us because the pharmaceuticals and agri-business supposedly know what's best for us and we know jack-shit.

Just think, years from now, our species will be extinct because we were too stupid to get our priorities straight and we were too busy fighting amongst each other. And we thought good always won out over evil.

Kudos also to tenni and TwylaTwobits.

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

Thanks for the Kudos, but I have to disagree. Fran is not one of the trolls. That I disagree with her, and vehemently, doesn't change that. She is not fake. She honestly believes what she believes and she is warm, and caring.

She's also daft on a few issues, but if you ask her she'll say the same of me. Fran is on my top list of people from this site I want to meet in real life.

Pasa

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I do have to agree. It is very easy to agree with Fran, and it is also very easy to disagree, but she is still a great person who I believe would never be mean spirited or malicious to anyone.

Luff you Fran :-)

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

I honestly don't give a damn why you are being patronizing. When someone pats my head my first gut reaction is to break their wrist. It's rude. And I damn well won't have someone get pretentious, pat me on the head like a child, and treat me as if I'm incapable of knowing what's good for me.

You have two choices at this point. 1. Realize that you are being rude and change your behavior. 2. Continue to defend it as somehow noble and continue to be rude.

Honestly, Fran, I like you a lot. I've said so publicly and personally. But, your view of America is downright insulting at times. You spend so much time telling Americans how we should be and looking down your nose at us, as if we were children. For someone who lives in a nation that would be speaking German right now if it weren't for us, that's pretty damned funny.

Pasa

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Like u an all Pasa.. rude? can b sumtimes.. this time?? not reelly..exasperated mayb.. an tetchy.. me tries 2 reason wiv peeps but sumtimes reason dusn always work.. not that we can expect it always 2.. but for life a me jus cant undastand wy peeps r so determined 2 take decisions outa the hands a ther kids..they becum adults an responsible 2 ya kno.. an its bout time peeps sat back an accepted that ther sum things ya shudn take away from ya kids.. an parta ther mos personal bits for reasons otha than pressin medical need is 1a them.. yas deprivin THEM a choice wen they old ebnuff 2 make it...

..hav in anotha thread ansad the german speakin bit ...do a lil checkin pasa.. cos woot u sez is an arrogance in itsel..:eek:

.. an course wen me c's ( or thinks me c's) summat wrong wiv ne wer me will say so an say how me thinks they shud b.. u think me concentrates on the US? On this site mayb cos mosta wot is discussed seems 2 b 'merican issues cos most membas r 'merican.... u oughta 'ear wot me sez bout me own country.. now thers summaat 2 conjure wiv..;)

Awwwwww God ya don haff give me red face... *blush*

Luff u lot an all.. moren ya kno..even cheeky sods like Pasa who hav temerity 2 argify wiv me.. tee hee..

Now we hav big party goin on 'ere an wile me luffs ya oodles an oodles.. me promised me m8 a dance an its ovadue.. muaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

Dus luff ya.. reelly..:female::bipride::)

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Originally Posted by shybipinay

More kudos here.

Sorry Franny, you're on our ignore list as are all the "fake" handles on this thread.

As for the "side note", we listed the "fake" handles in an earlier post on this thread.

How does it feel to be talking to a brick wall?

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This niggled a wee bit.. bein thot of as a troll or fake.. wy? No justification.. its ok in a sense.. am not angry.. but cos I differ from u about summat that means a great deal 2 me I becum a "fake" or a troll.. peeps can iggy me all they like.. wudn b the 1st an no doubt won b the last time..

...but its sad.. its sad cos it says that peeps only wanna hear ther side's case.. they don wanna lissen 2 the otha.. they don like home truths.. an for alla me faults.. the 1 thing me has always encouraged is peeps takin issue wiv every word me has eva written.. thats wot freedom a speech means.. thats wot democracy an freedom a expression is 'bout..

.. hav been a memba a this site almos since its incepotion an used 2 frequent its predecessor from time 2 time.. an hav luffed it..an hav luffed..an do luff so many wondaful amazin peeps.. lotsa whom me has fell out wiv verbally at 1 time or totha..fell out wiv verbally..an quite vehemently an all.. but very very rarely personally.. it has happened..an it has hurt..an don escape me own responisbility for it..

.. but "fake"? Jeez.. we all hav perceptions a how peeps r.. am lotsa things.. but nowt me has ev sed has been fake.. it cums from the soul.. hav passion for the causes in wich me believes.. me nev says owt me dusn believe.. fact that me differs in opinion from peeps don make me a fake ne more than me own perception a wot they say makes them so..

Me has a peculiar view a the world an all its wondas.. an this "fake".. or "troll" ifya prefer will b bak beatin 'er drum wetha Shy or ne 1 else puts 'er on iggie or not!!!!:)

QL, Dude, You talking like you personally discovered dick for the entire male population. LOL!!!

Guys have been blowing eachother long before you were even thought of. And I'm only 40, same generation if you are 36. It all has to do with the social status of the crowd you move with. Not every class of people can or would talk freely about their buddy's penis. It just isn't proper in polite society.

I have one question about all that.... do you speak for all males.... or just regard your opinion to apply to all males ?

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Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl

Bullshit. No damage inflicted here. I have a perfectly working penis. I get great pleasure from it, and have been told I am at least capable with it's use. No grief here either other than that I could hve been blessed with an inch or two more in length. But, we can't have everything.

I'll tell you the same thing I told Fran. Pat my head and tell me I don't know any better and I'll break your fucking wrist. I'll further tell you the following as I said before: If you wish to say these things in the comfort of your computer chair, how about saying them to my face? I'll be more than happy to PM you my address. I'm betting, however, you're a pussy.

I don't consider those who are against circumcision to be heretics. I consider them to be simply of a different opinion.

I consider those who tell me I'm mutilated or that I am a monster to have done this to my three sons to be morons. I consider them to be the same morons as the Evangelical Atheists, PETA members, and anyone else who feels that they have to be insulting and proselytizing when presented with a different viewpoint. I mean, honestly. In this thread circumcision has been offered up as a reason for rape. REALLY? HONESTLY? Fucking morons.

Side note: Anyone who says it to my sons personally will get a physically violent reaction from me. Not your fucking job, and I'm not above giving an ass kicking to a grown man for interfering with my children. Violence doesn't solve everything, but the willingness to use it creates a more civil society. And you will be civil where my sons are concerned.

At this point, it's not about the actual topic. It's about your methodology. It's about your attitude (all of you who have been insulting). It's about you, as a person, and how you treat others.

Since correlation is so loved by y'all, I'll put forth this correlation:

There is a direct correlation between those on this board who have been 'unmutilated' and those who act like assholes. Since there is a direct correlation, I'm so glad I'm cut.

Pasa

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Our feelings exactly!!!! Thanks so much for stating it so eloquently.

All of this business about made-up 'medical' reasons to be against circumcision or all of this nonsense about how it affects sexual satisfaction is just a smokescreen for the reaal reaason- prejudice. Circumcision would be as noncontroversial as having your ears pierced but for the fact that it is associated in people's minds with Jews (and in Europe, with Muslims as well).

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Originally Posted by jamieknyc

All of this business about made-up 'medical' reasons to be against circumcision or all of this nonsense about how it affects sexual satisfaction is just a smokescreen for the reaal reaason- prejudice. Circumcision would be as noncontroversial as having your ears pierced but for the fact that it is associated in people's minds with Jews (and in Europe, with Muslims as well).

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.. and that little outburst Jamie.. I find fucking offensive in the extreme.. that statement I do take personally.. that Jamie is as bad as calling parents who have had their children circumcumcised monsters, because what you are telling ME and is that I am a racist and religious bigot..