The troll would be the ones telling people they fucked up and abused and mutilated and even molested their children for choosing to have circumsized. At least Darkeyes posts intelligent and non rude remarks in her debating replies.
Printable View
The troll would be the ones telling people they fucked up and abused and mutilated and even molested their children for choosing to have circumsized. At least Darkeyes posts intelligent and non rude remarks in her debating replies.
I've not read all the threads on this, but IMO people should not circumcise boys unless there is a good medical reason. I watched a video a while back where a woman who is an expert on issues about female genital mutilation said male circumcision was worse than the milder female forms, involving piercing, which are universally condemned in the west (along with the extreme forms which involve removing the whole clitoris or even parts of the labia). It is a fact it removes a lot of sensitive nerve endings and removes the possibility of the pleasurable feeling of the skin sliding over the head of the penis. I am from Europe and Europeans are usually quite surprised to hear that it is very common in the US. I don't really get the "it's cleaner" argument as cleaning under it is incredibly easy to do. I read one theory is that it was popular with some people in the 19th Century because they thought it might discourage boys from masturbating, I'm not sure if that is true or not. Anyway, I personally don't like how cut penises look, but then maybe that's just because, like I said, it's not the usual thing where I'm from. I don't think people who have it done to their children are evil abusers or anything though... I just think that logically if you think about it, it is better not to do it and there is no good reason for it; it is just something that has become a cultural norm in some places and people have it done because they think it must be right because it's usual.
Hi, by the way, this is my first post, and sorry if I picked a thread to comment on that some people sound irritated with. I guess it is a bit tangental to discussion of being bi.
Hmmm good point. Usually, when threads like this are brought back from the past for no reason, and the person who brought it back is being an asshole and has all of the same patterns and characteristics as the other trolls, it's a pretty in your face thing, yet obviously not clear to everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by shybipinay
Man! I'm surprised at the emotionalism over this thread!
Yes, I wish I'd never been cut.
BUT, I know my parents were trusting of the medical professionals and felt that the doctors would have the best advice about my health. Like Twyla, they did what they felt best for me, based on what they were told.
I assure you that they, nor Twyla, would ever do anything, that they felt would harm their children.
The fact that I wish I had not been circumcised, does not make me want to condemn them for doing what they thought was best.
The name calling and mean-spirited outbursts, that some of you wrote, certainly is not the actions of intelligent and reasonable people.
Troll or no is immaterial sometimes when old threads are resuscitated.. often it is a good thing when an old issue is given another hearing.. even if its something with which we feel uncomfortable and causes friction. We live in the real world, and the real world is a bloody site nastier than ever .com will ever be..:)
I'm not suprised by the emotive posts on this subject Realist.. I seem to remeber a few years ago writing a particularly emotive few myself saying things in a tone I now regret. What you say is right... parents do trust the medical profession, probably too much and it is their advice that they have relied on. European doctors give out quite different advice, as they do in many other countries. I believe a century ago most British boys were circumcised but there was a sea change in opinions in the UK over the following half century or so and now it is relatively rare as I have already said. It is the medical profession in the US who should be taken to task, and society in general.. not individual parents.. debates such as this are needed to keep the issue alive and if only one person changes their mind on a subject as a result of debate, then it is all worth while..:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Realist
do me a favour..... when you go on about being mutilated, bear in mind that there are people in the site that you are calling mutilated..... and that is something that can be really fucking insulting...
sure I was circumcised.... but look that the shit that is being posted.... about non cut males are better than me cos I am mutilated and I can not * perform * according to stats and fiqures....
as my partner can tell you, I am larger than average, I can maintain a erection for a few hours.... I have been known to go more than 9 times in one 24 for hour period... but that doesn't matter, all I am seeing is people constantly referring to cut people as mutilated.....
we have a surgical procedure done.... so does that make all people that have had surgery and parts removed * mutilated * too....
are they too some how less than * good enuf * now....
ok circumcision may not be a needed surgical procedure for babies, but in some people that are older, they have no option.... and they are getting labelled as mutilated too..... rather fucking insulting to say that about people that had no fucking chance....
there is a difference between people that * mutilate * their bodies with extreme body modding and cut parts off.... and people like me that are getting insulted cos we have NO FUCKING SAY in it
am I angry with my parents, NO.... were they wrong, NO... did they wreck my life NO... should I blame the doctors yadda yadda NO
what happened, has happened, I am a cut male.... but my partners have been more than satisfied with me, as I am more than a cut cock.. I make love with them using my body and that makes up for any issues with my cut cock
so if you wanna call us mutilated, go for it..... just remember that you are applying the label to any body like cut males, that had a surgical procedure to have parts removed..... and that can include ladies with breast removal and rebuilding surgery.... cos they are like the males that work to rebuild their foreskin
It's funny that that whole big thing was all one sentence...Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannaFUCKALLNIGHT
yeah and your point is ???.... you are taking my remarks about how circumcision can be viewed as mutilation, and comparing them to the way I am talking about how being called mutilated can be rather insulting .....there are two different aspects there.....Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannaFUCKALLNIGHT
now where in that post you quoted, did I call myself a mutilated person ?
its a lil like talking about saying you post like a troll, and calling you a troll.... big difference, one is personal and one is not... btw I am not calling you a troll, in case you misread that statement....
ok the doctor that called it mutilation was anti circumcision.... I am not anti circumcision cos I know at times it can be medically needed....
my issue with scarring is a benefit and a curse, sure I have limited feeling, but fucking a partner for 14 hours in one day, is something I think is quite good.... for ANY person, so I do use the scarring to my advantage and yes I can use vit E cream on my penis to make it more sensitive.... but my partner did enjoy sucking a cock that would make a horse cry... and the taste of vit E cream is not as tasty as a mouth full of cum....
now just do me a favour and bear in mind that calling a surgical procedure a mutilation is not the same as saying that people are mutilated and some how not good enuf any more.... cos my partner for one can tell you that I am anything but average for a cut male
We can't believe this guy has nothing better to do with his life than be a crusader for uncut cock. What a pathetic waste considering the billions who go hungry every day.
We decided it was time to use the "iggy" button. 3x just over this thread.
What I find odd, Iwannna, is that you have no problem pulling up other people's past posts and twisting them to suit your own purposes. Now why don't you tell us your past names so we can look at your former words, ooops sorry can't I believe Drew deletes when he bans. Now please, really you keep coming back and you keep causing crap. Is this how you get your jollies? Don't misunderstand me, I am calling you a troll. You are using same words and phrases as some who have recently been removed from this site. Either change the way you post or grow up, either way. Ignored.
Then, this must be mutilation logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannaFUCKALLNIGHT
Although it seems to me to be "I am so superior to you rage"
can you please hold up a second....Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannaFUCKALLNIGHT
I am not saying that circumcision is not a form of mutilation, I have said that in a lot of aspects it can be....
but I am being clear between a surgical produce that is done with good reason and a surgical produce that results in issues that could have been avoid
you tend to think that anybody circumcised is mutilated.... now I have a 27 year old friend that developed issues with the foreskin tightening excessively, and ended up having the foreskin removed....
so tell me, was he in hospital getting a surgical procedure to enhance his sex life and other aspects or in hospital being mutilated with no real benefits....
as I have also pointed out, there are pros and cons to my circumcision, I am sitting on the fence about it as I have no proof that being uncut is better as I can not compare the differences in my body..... and yeah it would be the same with uncut males, how would they know that they are better off being uncut than cut ......
simple answer is they do not.... they just copy and paste what others say, mutilate the posts into something that is more twisted than a cock with scar tissue.... and totally fail to understand that there is something called the middle ground....
the middle ground is me sitting here saying while in some cases circumcision is not needed, there are also cases where it is needed....
but your stance is a cut man is a mutilated male and that its cruel and unusual treatment of a penis.......
my friend that had to be circumcised at 27.... as a different opinion.... he had a surgical procedure that was medically needed.....
should he have been prevented from having it cos circumcisions should be banned ??????
if you say no, there you are supporting circumcision and penile mutilation... and therefore being a hypocrite
if you say yes, you are forcing a person to suffer cos you think you know whats best for everybody
if you say the middle ground that while you do not agree with circumcisions, that yes they are sometimes medically needed.... you are standing beside me....
thats the advantage to having a open mind...I can stand in the middle ground and look at a issue from multiple sides....
as for a cock sizing contest, you have me beaten hands down...
I may be a dick with a prick, but you are a prick with a dick.... and well, 6 ft pricks will win any day
Iwanna hun..there are ways and ways of saying the same thing.. so much I agree with in your posts but not the way they are written. There is so much information that people would study it more if your posts were better considered. Sit down take 5 and think it through. Sometimes I too get carried away and rant. Invariably I regret it and have calmed down a lot in the last year or two. You can have the passion without the flame getting out of control..:)
You are correct, I said I would not waste my time with it anymore, but looking at these idiot assholes telling me I was mutilated and telling me I molested my sons by having them circumcised really pissed me off.Quote:
Originally Posted by shybipinay
The subject is dead to me and I will not be back, but believe me, if I ever meet someone on the street and listen to them tell me I molested my sons.............I will be spending time in the local jail for assault.
"Doctors and nurses do frequently tell lies about circumcision to the parents such as "Oh he slept through the entire thing!" or "He didn't cry at all!" which is all total bullshit since infants are strapped down and even with anesthesia they do feel lots of pain since a very sensitive part of their penis is being cut off. They actually do pass out from the pain or stay awake and fully conscious and then go into shock from it. "
This section of Iwanna's post may need further clarification. As I understand it that the baby is strapped down because he is a baby and they use a local anesthesia. Babies may move a lot whether they are being operated on under a local or just lying there. Even though he may feel no pain, he may feel the touch of the instruments near the edge of the freezing boundary. I refer to any dental work being done while under a local anesthesia as a reference.
If a baby were to pass out from the pain, then would the anesthesia not have taken effect yet or some other anesthesia problem? If it is an anesthesia problem, what might be done to determine that the anesthesia has taken effect? Again, in an adult, you simply ask them if they can feel anything but not with a newborn. I would expect a doctor or nurse would do something to test if the anesthesia has taken effect. The bottom line though is how does Iwanna know that this crying and passing out from shock has happened? Is Iwanna a doctor who has performed circumcision or a nurse who has actually witnessed these operations? If not, what credibility does Iwanna have to make such statements as fact rather than opinion or even hearsay?
I don't wish to pour oil on already inflamed waters, but several years ago Channel 4 televised a documentary on male child circumcision in the US. The babies were plainly awake and strapped down on something resembling a metal food dish such as the military or schools may use in food halls, contoured to a baby shape. This may not be the case in all American hospitals, but it is certainly the case in some.
And lest we forget the story of David Reimer
BTW: His brothers urinary issues resolved themselves on their own.Quote:
David Reimer was born as a male identical twin in Winnipeg, Manitoba. His birth name was Bruce; his twin brother was named Brian. At the age of 6 months, after concern was raised about how both twins urinated, both boys were diagnosed with phimosis. They were referred for circumcision at the age of 8 months. On April 27, 1966, a Urologist performed the operation using the unconventional method of cauterization. The procedure did not go as doctors had planned, and David Reimer's penis was burned beyond surgical repair.[1]
Accidents do happen.
"We also have a neato word that disguises the nastiness of what we do - circumcision ( round cut); rather than the descriptive "mutilating an innocent baby's penis".
The decision as to whether to refer to this operation as a "circumcision" or "mutilation" is done for a personal and political reason. Many operations may be said to leave the body "mutilated". Posters here are chosing to use this word, "mutilated" for shock impact. That is all.
They wish to stop circumcision it appears. If you are realistic, you will know that will not happen in North America any day soon. It may evolve that the operation will be done fewer and fewer times. Circumcision in North America is a cultural act: plain and simple. It may be true that it reduces the sensitivity in the penis. For some young men, they may be happy about that but not even know that is why they suffer less frequently from pre mature ejaculation..:bigrin:. Unless they lose all sensitivity they will still have a pleasant orgasm. So what is the big deal?
It's because Iwanna is full of crap tenni. In a lot of cases a parent can be present when it is happening if they ask and they have a good doctor. A friend of mine and myself stood in for our sons, and with her son, he was awake the whole time, never passed out or flinched from any pain...and with my son he was asleep when they brought us to the room, they did what they had to do without him flinching or acting as though he was being touched, and he was still asleep until we got to the room when I woke him up for a bottle. It's funny that he can sit there and bitch about how nurses and doctors lie about this when parents themselves can see it :rolleyes: He's just another troll dear, please take anything he has to say with a grain of salt...Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni
Do you have any credentials to give yourself credibility or is this hearsay?
I had understood that newborns were not given anesthesia but someone else has posted that they believe that local anesthesia is used?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontheside
http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcis...ns/article.htm
Pros and cons as listed by actual medical people, you know the ones with licenses that went to school to help humanity have a better life.
Thanks Rissa for your in person observations. That is proof. Do you know if they used a local anesthesia? (not that it will change me personally because I don't believe that I was anesthestised).
A funny side note is that my mother was a great horder of bills. We found the bill for my circumcision as we were cleaning up her house. By today's standards, it was cheap. I think that I might still have that bill hanging around somewhere. So, in one respect, I still have a memento of my circumcision of my former foreskin. :bigrin:
They used a little numbing ointment and then I believe they injected a small amount of anesthesia into the foreskin if I remember correctly. I was more focused on my sons face than anything else so I didn't watch step by step what they did with the whole numbing department. He told me what he was doing too, but I wasn't focused on him lol. In some cases, they use a sugar water solution on the baby. It's bizarre, but because their pain receptors aren't properly developed as an infant, the solution almost mimicks the effects of a narcotic for a few minutes. I thought that was interesting when I first learned that years ago...I wonder if today they use it more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni
They used to not do this because doctors a long time ago believed that babies brains weren't developed enough to be able to feel pain, so they felt it was unnecessary, but now the majority of doctors in the world would never dream about doing any kind of procedure on an adult or child without some form of anesthesia.
I would also like to add for all of the people going off about how the baby is in OBVIOUS pain because they are crying and screaming...umm...yeah. Ya know how that happens? The second they are strapped onto the table, they start carrying on, because babies generally like being swaddled and held tightly like in the womb. The second you have them in that position with their arms and legs strapped out of the way...they get annoyed by it. Some babies don't care, like my son who preferred not to be swaddled right after he popped out of me haha. But the ones who do, tend to be the ones who get annoyed the second they are strapped onto the table.
Thanks Rissa
Everything that you wrote makes sense to me. I had heard about the question about how well developed the neurological system is in newborns. Sugar as a drug...lol I was feed commercial baby food that had sugar in it. The argument was so that the parent who might taste it would think that it was good. Now you tell me that I was being drugged....lol I always thought that is how I developed a sweet tooth.
"these people are referred to in psychological fields as cowards."
LOL...get fuck'n real. "Coward" is not a term used in psychological journals as a descriptor for any condition or theory that I have read.....
Then I guess it's pointless for anyone to ever get anesthesia since apparently, according to you, there is no way for anyone to not feel pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontheside
LMFAO well, it mainly only works in babies 3 months and under...and that's a bit too young for babyfood...so I wouldn't go thinking that you were drugged just yet haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni
*puts away the "victim card".:cool:
Searches through desk for another explanation for my sweet tooth:bigrin:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rissababynta