Courted by a Shadow Lover

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

Oh good grief. Twy! End this thread before it become a 15 page thesis paper somewhere. Stick a fork in it you guys, its over done.
Hey Twy, Riss, and Duckie and a cpl others..lets got to the pub..lol
Cat

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Expressing what one believes, the ideas one has, the thoughts which go through ones head and getting them down on paper, or in type, can never be ''over done.'' How sad that you feel that something should be ended, because the thread has changed coiurse slightly and although keeping to a basically spiritual theme, has branched out in other directions (except for the ridiculous troll calling...as usual). This change is called, ''evolution''......but you would like to see evolution stifled. How sad.

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

Oh good grief. Twy! End this thread before it become a 15 page thesis paper somewhere. Stick a fork in it you guys, its over done.
Hey Twy, Riss, and Duckie and a cpl others..lets got to the pub..lol
Cat

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I got a better idea, why don't you all come over to my house where there is FREE alcohol ;)

Well...at least I understand why you would want the thread closed...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Canticle

Don't know who you mean, Void, but it sure as hell isn't me. Do you reckon that your little digs are clever, because they are not. Your attempts, at deciding who and what. are this and that, merely come over as very deliberately worded, flowery, pseuso-intellectual nonsense.

Too true...too many things sum it up. You and others are obsessed with trolls...and I've not see such an obsesseion on any other site and you only like things to be said in a certain manner. Get a grip Void, this is a web site. There is a real world out there. If people cannot exchange views and threads cannot be allowed to change course, then people are not communicating properly.

Twyla, I think my reply to Fran was quite appropriate. I was talking about my Dad, as having been an inspiration to me. A man who was the best you could find and he departed this life in 1984. Each year, I miss him more and more...appreciate him more and more. That's no poem....but like a poem...those words express thoughts and feelings.

And you want a thread locked! Sheesh, bang goes freedom of thought being expressed....once again.

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Obsession with Trollies Canticle? I've put my ore in about that from time to time. Voidie isnt the only oneas you will have noticed.. being obsessed and goin gaga bout the buggers only encourages them...

..and I agree with u about locking down the thread. Why? I can see no reason whatever but maybe cat and Twyla can enlighten us...

My dad thankfully is alive and very hale and hearty, and I adore the old gett. He more than anyone has been my inspiration for so many things. O I know he spoils me, and I have always played on that much to the chagrin of my elder brother and sister. Yet there are good reasons for why we are so close. We have much the same warped sense of humour, and both of us are a bit childlike. Ever since I can remember it has been him and me against the world. It was he, like your dad with you who gave me my grounding into socialism, and he who more than anyone encouraged me never to allow the world to grind me down.

He isn't like your dad Twyla. He is a baby boomer, and has all of his life lived under the welfare state. Coming from a mining family his father made it clear from a very young age that he was never to go down the pit. My granpa worked like a trojan to ensure that his children would never struggle like he had, and would never want. He worked hard to provide all the resources for them to get the education he believed was their right.

I am considered middle class, although my attitudes are those of the old working class, because my dad has never lost sight of his roots. He knows and is eternally grateful for the sacrifices his father made for him to get where he is today, and he has made sure my brother, sister and I remember what working people have gone through so that we and our generation and the generations yet to come never endure the misery of those who went before. He has made a very good career for himself and is pretty well off.. Mum too, and they make a wonderful team. He more than anyone was crestfallen when I decided to finally leave the Labour Party. Yet he stood back and did not criticise.. he listened and understood and accepted I have my own life to lead. He accepted that the Labour Party no longer played any part in my life and that differences were both irreconcilable and irreversible.

We are products of our ubringing as I have often said in the past. The person I am, and the attitudes I have, and the beliefs I hold are due more to my dad than to any other human being. Spoiled sure. I am certainly that. But not in a bad or nasty way I think. When my old man dies, it will hit home in a way which I know you will understand. No one can lose their mentor, their confidante, their oldest and dearest friend, their adored father and not have that leave a hole in their heart. He has always been there for me at the best and worst of times. I don't dwell on it, but it terrifies me that some day he will just not be there any more and sometimes at unexpected moments I break down in uncontrollable tears at that very thought.

It is my dad who coined the name "darkeyes" when I was very little. Deep dark and mysterious he used to say. Ha... shows what he knows.. but maybe when I was little I dont know. Nowadays he calls me Frankie like the rest of my family. I hate it and they know it, but they all persist..but when it rolls off his tongue there is a love and gentleness which comes through like from no one else. When my dad calls me Frankie it says to me I'm truly special.

God I've gone on so.. I'm sorry. I can talk about my dad till the cows come home.. he may think me special.. but it is nothing to how I feel about him...:)

DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas


Death the Leveller


The glories of our blood and state

Are shadows, not substantial things;

There is no armour against Fate;

Death lays his icy hand on kings:

Sceptre and Crown

Must tumble down,

And in the dust be equal made

With the poor crooked scythe and spade.



Some men with swords may reap the field,

And plant fresh laurels where they kill:

But their strong nerves at last must yield;

They tame but one another still:

Early or late

They stoop to fate,

And must give up their murmuring breath

When they, pale captives, creep to death.


The garlands wither on your brow;

Then boast no more your mighty deeds!

Upon Death's purple altar now

See where the victor-victim bleeds.

Your heads must come

To the cold tomb:

Only the actions of the just

Smell sweet and blossom in their dust.

James Shirley (1596-1666)

Canticle
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would like to add a few thoughts.
First, My first statement about Christians etc. was not directed at you and your beliefs but thanks for expanding your perspective. I also note that Cat and Rissa are begging that this thread stop and they want to go to the "pub" or get drunk together. That is an example of some posters wanting to emote on this site and damn the other comments. In my opinion this seems to reinforce a perspective that there is a controlling clique mentality on this site.

As far as Marx, those of us from societies with universal healthcare are not the ones who might choke about discussing the positives of Communism. Oh, I can not resist commenting on Socrates as a pagan. Now, the way that I see it is that Socrates lived an era many years prior to the birth of Christ. It is the Christians that used the term "pagan" in a derogatory word to refer to non Christians. Since the gods of Socrates' time were the mainstream belief of his society, it seems inappropriate to apply a term to Socrates that was not used in the way that it is used today. I believe that "pagan" meant "country dweller" at one time?

Cheers, I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. I agree with you about the illness on this site perhaps from here forth called "trollphobia"....:bigrin:

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Originally Posted by tenni

Canticle
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would like to add a few thoughts.
First, My first statement about Christians etc. was not directed at you and your beliefs but thanks for expanding your perspective. I also note that Cat and Rissa are begging that this thread stop and they want to go to the "pub" or get drunk together. That is an example of some posters wanting to emote on this site and damn the other comments. In my opinion this seems to reinforce a perspective that there is a controlling clique mentality on this site.

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Excuse me, I am not BEGGING for this to be shut down, I simply said that I understood why Cat and Twyla would want it shut down. As for the pub, Cat said we should all go and I said instead of that, just come to my house and get it free.

I grow tired of having to constantly rewrite what I clearly say in this forum JUST so you don't make me look like an asshole Tenni. From now on when referring to me, please make sure you read what I write first cause this is starting to get annoying. If I look like a jerk because of something I do or say, then so be it. I refuse to look like an idiot because you can't seem to grasp what people say. That is just bullshit.

As another note...I'm beginning to think that perhaps you are just jealous that you aren't in any particular kind of clique;)

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Originally Posted by tenni

Canticle
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would like to add a few thoughts.
First, My first statement about Christians etc. was not directed at you and your beliefs but thanks for expanding your perspective. I also note that Cat and Rissa are begging that this thread stop and they want to go to the "pub" or get drunk together. That is an example of some posters wanting to emote on this site and damn the other comments. In my opinion this seems to reinforce a perspective that there is a controlling clique mentality on this site.

As far as Marx, those of us from societies with universal healthcare are not the ones who might choke about discussing the positives of Communism. Oh, I can not resist commenting on Socrates as a pagan. Now, the way that I see it is that Socrates lived an era many years prior to the birth of Christ. It is the Christians that used the term "pagan" in a derogatory word to refer to non Christians. Since the gods of Socrates' time were the mainstream belief of his society, it seems inappropriate to apply a term to Socrates that was not used in the way that it is used today. I believe that "pagan" meant "country dweller" at one time?

Cheers, I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. I agree with you about the illness on this site perhaps from here forth called "trollphobia"....:bigrin:

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As far as Socrates goes.....his beliefs (if he had any), would have been seen as pagan to others. One man's meat, is another man's poison. One man's heaven, is another man's hell. I don't know the original meaning of the word ''pagan,'' but what you posted seems reasonable to me. Oh...and I did understand that the points you made, were not aimed at me personally.

Rissa can I come over for some drinks? After reading this thread I sure as hell need a drink. :tongue:

The more the merrier. I've got Arbor Mist :bigrin:

This change is called, ''evolution''......but you would like to see evolution stifled. How sad.

I said stick a fork in it because it was and IS getting ridiculous with these long assed posts that have totally diviated from Twy's original meaning! I'm not knocking evolution or religious nor spiritual beliefs, with my heritage that would be the Last thing I would do.
This has just gotten waaay out of hand with the comments by morons, the run downs, and all of the un-needed retoric that has drowned Twy's original meaning.
Good Thread Twy, lets go fuel up the Leer...lol Riss, put the goodies on ice and fire up the BBQ! lol
Cat, done with the subject

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

This change is called, ''evolution''......but you would like to see evolution stifled. How sad.

I said stick a fork in it because it was and IS getting ridiculous with these long assed posts that have totally diviated from Twy's original meaning! I'm not knocking evolution or religious nor spiritual beliefs, with my heritage that would be the Last thing I would do.
This has just gotten waaay out of hand with the comments by morons, the run downs, and all of the un-needed retoric that has drowned Twy's original meaning.
Good Thread Twy, lets go fuel up the Leer...lol Riss, put the goodies on ice and fire up the BBQ! lol
Cat, done with the subject

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By evolution, I was talking about the thread evolving, changing direction, changing it's pace, coming back to it's origin and then moving on again. Not evolution, in scientific terms, as in the origin of the species.

What you call ''long assed posts.'' are to others, their way of expressing their intellectual and spiritual and personal views. If the poems posted have led the way, for the thread to evolve, in such a manner, then this is what was meant to happen and it has not deviated from the original aim. People have been made to think about a subject and put down, in type, exactly what they feel deep inside.

''This has just gotten waaay out of hand with the comments by morons, the run downs, and all of the un-needed retoric that has drowned Twy's original meaning.''

I have not noticed that the thread has got out of hand, not in any way.

Which are the comments by ''the morons''...who are these people. I have seen perfectly intelligent posts, made by intelligent people.

What are the ''run downs''? I am not sure what that refers to....content of posts or posters.

What may seem unneeded rhetoric to you, appears as intelligent discourse, to others.

Nothing has been drowned. It has been added to and where someone may have made remarks, which are incorrect, those do have to be addressed.

A more worthy subject, could not have been raised up, as a discussion point. Whether the subject is covered by poetry, or prose; death, spirituality and connected subjects, are bound to be brought into the conversation.

In the midst of life, we are in death and in the midst of death, we are in life. An ending and a new beginning. It's interesting to see how people think, whether in poetry held dear to them, or just their own deep and long held beliefs.

*facepalm*

Waiter...check please?

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Originally Posted by Canticle

What you call ''long assed posts.'' are to others, their way of expressing their intellectual and spiritual and personal views. If the poems posted have led the way, for the thread to evolve, in such a manner, then this is what was meant to happen and it has not deviated from the original aim. People have been made to think about a subject and put down, in type, exactly what they feel deep inside.

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canticle..... simplify..... that is the key

there are people that wish to express their view, I agree.....and I have no objection to the sharing of beliefs

but it shows the difference between people that have a simple and simplistic view of things.... and those that like to over complicate the simple things as to them, having a well worded, * intelligent * novel of a post, is the correct way of expressing their feelings and opinions

I am curious, would the same people go to a poetry reading and talk like that.... or would they have the ability to just listen and share a few words

intelligence is not measured in how many big words a person uses or how big the post is, but how simplistically they can express a simple view for the masses....

albert einstein was a genius, very astute man, yet E=MC2... something most of the world can understang.....a very simplistic term... yet says so much

I quess my point is simply that some of us can see the sky and admire it
others can see the sky and need to post about the colour spectrum in relations to the direct influence of carbon gases on a set angle that is parallel to the direct center of the gradient of the earth from the equator to the north pole at 3.12 am on sunday the 24th of november 2009

while people have the right to share and post in forums, some of us love the basic, simplistic beauty of wisdom in a few verses.... and it would be nice to have a thread like that without the other view points about religion, politics and opposition to beliefs in it

''canticle..... simplify..... that is the key''

Umm LDD, what I put in any post about spirituality, is a simplified version of what I am thinking, of what I understand and what I believe. I am a wordy person. I am a writer of long letters....the record was 52 pages I believe. I put what is in my heart, mind and spirit. If I did anything differently, I would not be expressing myself as me.

''there are people that wish to express their view, I agree.....and I have no objection to the sharing of beliefs''

See above.

''but it shows the difference between people that have a simple and simplistic view of things.... and those that like to over complicate the simple things as to them, having a well worded, * intelligent * novel of a post, is the correct way of expressing their feelings and opinions''

All is simple and simplistic...all is deep and unfathommable (sp). How I write is the correct way and only way for me. Blame spirit...not the writer of the words. They lead me on my pathway and on my journey of uderstanding.

''I am curious, would the same people go to a poetry reading and talk like that.... or would they have the ability to just listen and share a few words''

Me....I'd listen and talk....and I would probably be reading some of the poetry.

''intelligence is not measured in how many big words a person uses or how big the post is, but how simplistically they can express a simple view for the masses....''

Correct...which is why I despise anyone who churns out words. to make them seem intellectually far superior to others. You'll not see me use long words, that are unnecessary.

''albert einstein was a genius, very astute man, yet E=MC2... something most of the world can understang.....a very simplistic term... yet says so much''

Einstein.....genius...maybe....great scientist...sure.....but adulterous husband and not a very good father. Another of those who maybe thought himself the most important thing in existence.

''I quess my point is simply that some of us can see the sky and admire it
others can see the sky and need to post about the colour spectrum in relations to the direct influence of carbon gases on a set angle that is parallel to the direct center of the gradient of the earth from the equator to the north pole at 3.12 am on sunday the 24th of november 2009''

Oh.....I'm with you on just appreciating the night sky and wondering at it...even though it's nice to know the astronomy, too. I'll leave it to someone I know, to go into very great detail about atoms and particles. Me...I'm just wondering why the ice cream tastes so good.

''while people have the right to share and post in forums, some of us love the basic, simplistic beauty of wisdom in a few verses.... and it would be nice to have a thread like that without the other view points about religion, politics and opposition to beliefs in it''

Oh, LDD, you know that is an impossibility. The nature of the beast makes us thinkers and doers and writers down of all that comes. Hence the need to have a pencil balanced upon the ear at all times. Verses trigger thoughts, memories, things that need to be shared. When I was writing prose, I came to understand what great writers meant, when they said they had to write, not wanted to. If you don't get those words down on paper.....you explode.

And I think you can take what I said about the pencil balanced upon the ear ;)

thats the thing canticle, there are things that can never be expressed in words.... yet people try to do it any way.....

embracing death as a friend, mentor, teacher.... a short sentence yet says so much to those that understand it.... but there is no way to express it beyond a few words, than over complicate it.....

a wise person is not the one that talks, but the one that listens and speaks a few short words, for they know how to answer a person in a way that says more and shares more, than a book could

''thats the thing canticle, there are things that can never be expressed in words.... yet people try to do it any way.....''

I would agree....if we were discussing face to face, human to human contact, in the real sense of the words, but this is a forum, where words have to be used, to express inner most feelings and thoughts. Thus, we all do it differently.

''embracing death as a friend, mentor, teacher.... a short sentence yet says so much to those that understand it.... but there is no way to express it beyond a few words, than over complicate it..... ''

I have to begin by saying, I don't believe in death. By that, I mean death of the spirit. The spirit world is our true home and when the mortal shell dies, the spirit is released, to return home. Upon the earth plain we learn, we interact, we live a life.

I think the rest of this paragraph, I covered in my first.

''a wise person is not the one that talks, but the one that listens and speaks a few short words, for they know how to answer a person in a way that says more and shares more, than a book could''

A wise person is one that knows, before there is the need to listen. That is the mark of a true sensitive...a true empath. In real situations, I would agree, that less means more.

In September I heard that a friend was terminally ill, with but a few weeks to live. Two days later, her husband died. At his funeral...at the ''wake,'' I said to my friend....''There are no words'' and kissed her forehead. Six weeks later she was dead. At her funeral, I merely said to her daughter, ''They're fine, they are together now''......and she knew that. So it is true...words are not always needed.....but very often they are.

Tad of info. Pagan comes from the Latin pagani, those who live in the hills. Folks living in the hills were often kept uneducated. At least they lacked what the Church viewed as education so, yeah it became a slur to call folk pagan.

Excuse me, withdrawing now. I tire of strife.

In the poetry thread today herbwoman posted a poem i liked that very much. Ps. this is lively this discussion but the next thread should be called say something people for those who never post maybe they feel intimidated by the goings on.

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Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat

Adam just because you are emotionally and spiritually constipated, it doesnt mean that the rest of us are.

Go on back under the rock, and have a cookie.
Cat

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ROFLMAOAASM - Gawd Cat - you kill me - I laughed for a good five or ten minutes. You're precious Cat. LOL :bigrin: