I completely agree with your entire article. And yes I am Pagan as well. :bigrin:
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I completely agree with your entire article. And yes I am Pagan as well. :bigrin:
As a straight guy interested in exploring my potential bisexuality within the BDSM scene, I have to say I often feel uncomfortable with the idea of expressing this to my other kinky male friends (let alone kinky male play partners). I sense a fair amount of male-homophobia somehow. I can't say why or how or where it's coming from. I just feel it in the air.
It's interesting because the women I know from the scene are HIGHLY encouraging of guys being bi. Yet still it somehow feels as though declaring myself as bisexual might change the nature of some of my relationships-- you'd think it wouldn't given the expected open-mindedness of such an alternative community as that of people who tie, beat, and bleed each other for pleasure.
I understand that maybe I'll be surprised if I actually take the step of being open about this aspect of myself. Or that there may well be many bi guys in the BDSM world who have felt differently about the attitudes of other guys towards their bisexuality. I'd welcome hearing from bi guys about just these types of experiences.
One thing I will say about the BDSM world is it really does make you feel comfortable opening yourself up to new things for the most part. People are so crazy kinky and weird in it that it's just like there's always someone who is sufficienlty weirder than you in category X that it makes you feel comfortable, if not boring, by comparison. Love it!
Thanks for reading!
Relegion, preacher's daughter or son are of a horny sort,but us at belive in nature are on to path--true path to joy.
Well...Well...Well. There is one organization of gay men not mentioned here: the Radical Faeries: an anarchistic dis-organization with no rules and no bosses (M or F) very similar to the Rainbow Family. Both are a real mix of folks. The Rainbow may have begun as ST8 but now is a polyglot mix.
The Radical Faeries began as Gay Male but now is a polyglot mix including a few Hermaphrodites even.
When two herms get together are they Bi?
About: male bisexuality....Many years age I got into body language and the psychotherapy of it. Read: Julius Fast's book BODY LANGUAGE (published around 1965 or 70) Chapter 7 is about sexual body language. Then I started looking ,cruising men in public and ordinary places. Lots of sexual body language!!!! But no takers for sex!!!!! I got wise fast and gave up on it. However for two years I tried offering sexual body language to every man I met. Some responded immediately. If they didn't respond immediately I did it the second time and they almost all responded. Except one: he responded the third time!. No Sex ever because they all were ST8 or so they told me. Then I quit the experiment because I got bored.
But my conclusion is that all men are Bi in the body but many have their mind-brain-set disconnected from their bodies desires.
Homophobia is an epidemic in US among men. Women are not so homophobic as men. "Cocksucker!" used to be a curseword used by men about men and was applied to men ONLY. Has any woman ever cursed another woman as "Clitlicker!" -???? How about other oldtimey curses used by men about men "Up your ass!" "Up your ass with a meat-hook!" (My, how our language has changed in 20 years!!!!!) But the childhood learning-teaching process still produces Homophobia. We still, many of us, have to get ourselves, individualy, out of these closets.
Ah--Buddha! We live in a world of Illusion.
Or To quote Pogo the possum (Walt Kelly's cartoon creation)...."We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Last comment: In 1967 all States in US had laws against male homosexuality. None had laws against lesbianism except Texas!
Crazy Owl...
If you're out and such an activist why don't you even have a picture of yourself on here?Quote:
Originally Posted by bearisbare
Sexual politics and bisexual politics are so outdated and 1990s anyway.
I'm puzzled here. I wrote something back on April 28th that commented on a reply to something I did not originally write, and in my reply I stated "There are thousands of us who use various parts of this site who contribute to its whole. Every bit, whether large or small, contributes to the strength of the overall community, not only this online one, but other bisexual communities as well."Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDog
That was something I wrote that was in support of everyone and something I thought was positive. I wasn't pushing any sort of political thought there -- I was simply stating my support for this site and all it does for those who visit it.
As for why I don't have a picture here, since it's not mandatory, and I do not have an ad, I didn't feel I needed one. I visit this site to read forums, articles and check out some links I didn't know about anywhere else, but I decided long ago that I didn't want to post a personal.
First off, I"m gonna change a trend! Are you All ready, because your gonna get pissed!
The truth about bisexuality is coming to truth. It has ,more essence then a church. Fuck, nature itself confirms it. But I bet you fools don't know that. and you call yourself bisexual? Bisexual to what? Human? a rock has more sense. Do you know your symbol, or colors? No, of course not! Your a fool! igorene destorys and you know this, yet you apply it to your life. Insted of being wise as you think! The Bisexual symbol is to over laying upside down triangles, colors Blue and pink Purple in the middle is that beyond you?
The Gays know who they are and there kind,You know nothing. Your living off the fat of the land, Pleasure. A spin off from gays, Wrong! Wake up! You are of a creed of kingship. A nature of knowing. Is this why you question everything. Wake up, you fools! and I know! you hate being called a fool!, So see the truth. For Bisexuality is far more then a dick in your hand or a pussy against yours. Its your way. Nature left this for the leadership. Is this why your resected? See if I'm lieing, look in history and you'll see the greatest leaders were bi, not gay. Wake up! Because of bisexual is intelligents, there decreeet., cool!, Power is in unity, thats cool too! Where is unity in igorence?>Your power is in decrection!:bipride:
that is so true in the pagan religion we believe that there is nothing wrong with m/m/f/f/m/f or evve m/f/m its just they think that it will corupt thier perfect lil world so more power to you :flag2:
Limited Debates: Gender Roles in Western Society
Firstly, denoting previous arguments in respect to the bisexuality and pagan ideology as a sociological debate, whereby concluding gender, and gender roles in a given society or culture. Society defines the normative behavior between gender, and gender roles, thus including sexuality, whereby labeling bi-sexuality as ante social behavior. Secondly, arguing pagan, religion into the dialogue of bisexuality behavior is not conclusive in the prior debates; should be more refined or broad in its scope. Notwithstanding, history which has stood the test of time, in this scope bi sexuality was a normative behavior in many cultures. However, in today’s society bisexuality, construed as ante social behavior, hence labeling, and deviance. In sum, it is a very controversial debate, and worthy of deliberation, in Western culture.
Thesis-1
Note: A very limited topic proposal, thus the scope should be more broad or refined
I look at life statistically. I find it curious that with over 3,000 world religions, the vast majority of religious folk choose the SAME RELIGION as their parents. In other words, they did no personal exploration of what may be the most important choice of their lives. They also choose the same sexuality - or at more like deny their own sexuality because of parent's on denial of theirs.
:bipride:
I've been many religions. Just like most of us need a few mates or a few cars to choose what's best for us; gaining a broad understand helps make an informed choice. Yet, again, most religious people are the SAME religion they chose (that was chose FOR THEM) at 9 or 10 when they were baptised. They gave more thought into selecting their pet's hair colour than their religion.
After exploring options, Wicca was the obvious choice for me. Had I stuck with the religion chosen for me by my parents I would still be frustrated with the control and narrow-minded leadership where its OK to molest children, but not OK to choose your own adult partner.
I was shocked when the Church Leader made the public statement (paraphrased) "It's NOT ACCEPTABLE to MOLEST CHILDREN".. Gee now THERE is a REVELATION! Their faithful had to be TOLD THAT?? I think I want a religion where the members can think for themselves, and don't have to be told things like this before they believe them?
Afterall The Goddess DID give us a brain- I presume she wanted us to USE IT?
Interesting article.
I have a little nag, as such, about being labelled part of an "outcast" group, being Pagan myself, and being a friend of Role-Players, Pagans, Goths, Metal-Heads, etc. I understand why you used this term of 'outcast', but I don't strictly agree with it. Perhaps 'niche' would have been a more agreeable one, or some such.
Also, I class myself as always having been Pagan, in it's broadest use of the term. And I class myself as having always been Bi, just that I never realized this until later in life (although my parents always 'knew', even before I did, in that divine way parent always do). I have never seen the two as intrinsically entwined as your article appears to suggest.
I am just me, and always was, and shall always be so.
I appreciate that we are now living in a more accepting world than, say, a mere generation or two ago, and I consider myself and my generation greatly fortunate for such.
But as regards being Pagan and Bi as having to go hand in hand, is a bit off. Many of my pagan friends are happily and confirmedly straight, and a few gay/lesbian. In fact, I'm the ONLY Bi-identified pagan I personally know of. If anything, I was the quirky odd one out amongst the group.:tongue: Much goes the same for many of the Goths, Grungers, Role Players, Metal-Heads, etc who I have made acquaintance with have all proved, in their own ways, although still open-minded and accepting, have predominated with Mono-sexuals (Straights or Gay/lesbians).
If only what your article seems to suggest was as true this side of the pond.:(
The only truly Bi people I've come across other than my self in actual life (i.e, out side of the Internet aether) are much like me, identifying themselves as individuals; happily befriending with anyone who's a decent person, regardless of their personal kinks or niches. Be they whatever faith or ideology or taste or fashion sense or whatever, has proved somewhat regardless of us wanting to know the person for who s/he are inside. The rest is but technicalities.
Got a mirror handy?Quote:
Originally Posted by JudeQuinn
Bad girl, feeding the troll! I will have to give you a spanking. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by csrakate
oh, you're a quick one lmao!Quote:
Originally Posted by csrakate
I'm Pleased! :impleasedQuote:
Originally Posted by csrakate
Please be respectful of other religions even if you dont agree with them. Please keep in mind that ALL religions started off at the beginning and were new or young at one point. it doesnt make them ANY less valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittengirl
I am Wiccan. I am a witch. I think you will find most wiccans are witches, but NOT all witches are wiccans.
there are some wiccans who are very new agy, and others who are deeply devoted and serious about their beliefs, crafts and practice.
Just to note: I am NOT Gardenarian-I am an eclectic solitary wiccan. And a pagan is defined as someone who does not follow the major religions. its original meaning was country dweller.
Just so you know, not all Wiccans or Witches for that matter are accepting and open minded. There are close minded people in EVERY religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by purple rose
i was raised in the church of christ and knew from a young age that i like both boys and girls, mentally, physically and spiritually. it wasnt until i was a late teen that i began to explore pagan and spiritualist communities, maybe i was lucky in the fact that i was accepted by the church i was raised in, as well as pagan community, maybe it was because of my utter acceptance of the idea that this is who i am , take me or leave me, either way ill survive. i have noticed, more recently, that younger girls are claiming bisexuality, but seem to be just playing around, because they are taught that it is cool. that in itself could me dangerous simply because of how impressionable these girls are and how manipulative some young men are, not wanting a girl unless they will be with another girl in the attempt to achieve the alleged ultimate fantasy.
I really like how you finished off this post. I did do role-playing, sci-fi/ fantasy long before I even could understand my sexuality and now I just like to say that since I have broken many taboos already, why not just see how far down the rabbit hole goes. :three: Also, I know that in my search for acceptance, one of the best places that I found (barring some people who took my inventory one too many times) was the Wiccan community. Myself, I tend to believe in a more shamanistic belief, but my prayers and energy in sending to Hecate and Dionysus help me on a daily basis as well to keep my mind open to all branches of spirituality. Still, I find close-mindedness in society wherever reprehensible since it takes the judgment out of a Higher Power's hands and gives it to limited human intelligence. I don't say this to anyone here, obviously, but when people judge others it makes me very irritated to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhuth
I also appreciate the OP for putting together a very good post and am glad that I am a part of this community (found through a yahoo group) because it helps me to find affirmation with people like me (or even slightly different) to keep accepting myself no matter what my choices for partners or bedroom habits are. Hugs for taking the time to post this and share your views with us.
Just want to correct a few things here if I may Long Duck Dong, hope you dont mind:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong
Crowley didn't write High Magicks Aid, that was Gerald Gardner.
Anton Lavey was the founder of the Church of Satan (1967) not Crowley.
Gardner didn't join Crowley's witchcraft coven (Crowley wasn't a witch, he was a ceremonial magickian), although Gardner was a short term member of the O.T.O
Forgive my pedanticism (not being rude just straightening a few things out here:)), Im a magickian myself and a member of the OTO hence Im acquainted with Crowley and the history of the occult.
All you so called know it all wiccans and pagans need to study history,
pagans were mainly farmers who worshiped fertility the four seasons and nature and its gods and godesses.
Bisexuality among pagan women was natual and normal, when the men were gone for weeks or months it was normal to give each other (sexual) comfort.
if a husband was killed and never came back she and her kids were taken in as a second wife where the kids became his kids.
the wiccan was a spiritual leader but also the worlds first phamasist with herbal remidies past down from generations, and they knew the art of fixing broken limbs.
It was the jelousy of christian religion that turned against the wiccan and pagans as more people started to attend wiccan gatherings and taking herbs that cured, the christians only offered prayer, no preyers were ever answered, people died in agony and disese, and the church lost its flock and its money.
It was the evil cathlic church that invented the words "witches" incest, evil, SIN, the devil, evil spells, magic,heratic, infidel, the none believers, the church blamed them for every bad thing they couldent explain and burnt thousands of wiccan/pagans alive thoughout england and europe, this fear brought most back to the church with their money.
todays moden witches, goths, with their dark spells and wichcraft is money generating bullshit, its everything the wiccans and pagans were not, but more what the Evil cathlic church wanted and portrade pagans and wiccans to be.
modern day witches are evil Cathlics looking for your money through fear..But the cathlic church has always been about forced religion through fear, where procreation and sex is SIN..
let me start by saying I did not read the full article nor all of the posts.. Honestly, it was all too long...lol
but, I do have a comment on Pagan Bisexuals. The first pagan person I met was actually a bisexual. She is the reason why today I am very open minded or bi curious (whatever label you want to put on it). We dated for a few years and she taught me alot of things (not all sexual). To name a few are to be more open minded, to try anything once (if I didn't like it then dont do it again but at least you try), take risks, and to explore just to name a few. The one thing that she constantly talked about is the energy that you produce is the energy that you will attract.
Pagans are very earthy / simple people. The whole religion is based on earth and its energy. They are very open minded. I do believe that being pagan you do let all of your walls down and believe in being free and nurturing.
Think about it for a minute. Without the walls in todays society how sexually free we would be. For example we constantly hear about men that do not want not wanting to explore certain sexual acts because it would construe them as being gay.
I do not know if this is off the topic or not but from the pagans I have talked to I'd say that about 80% are bi...
Quote:
Originally Posted by boca.openminded
yeah, i know many many pagans and only one is straight but not disgusted by the idea or anything. I'm not surprised...us pagans are always striving for balance :tongue:
bi female pagan and the group i am in i am the only bi person there so i would have loved to have seen the group she was talking about lmao
bi-pagen here to. Love the freedom it gives.
I'm not a Pagan, but had a Pagan room-mate and past aquaintances and so I am fairly familiar with its essence. As I recall, the central tenet (or Pagan Golden Rule) goes something like this:
"Do what you will, but do no harm (onto others or yourself)."
There are those inside or outside of that tradition that ignore it fit their own biases. Because every creed or spiritual path has its extremists, and there are con artists that use anything for selfish superficial gains, i.e. kinky hype/marketing/etc.
Nuttin' new in either case.
That sexual orientation becomes prey to this isn't surprising.
Ignore the b.s. and live your own integrity.
with all due respect, women don't have it "easy"...it may be easier in society for us, but once a man or woman comes to realize that it matters not what society thinks of us, we are free...it's hard for us all...where i'm from i'm considered an old maid...i'm 26 years old and i've never been married, i have no kids...they ask me why...now, take the stress of this and combine it with the stress of being pagan and bi....MUCH HARDER...
but, being bi, gothic, pagan...and happy...is something i am...i'm not "this way" because it fits the norm or the stereotype of this and that...it is who i am...
there is no place in any tradition that i've heard of that looks down on bi men or women...we are all accepted for our differences because that's what makes us work as a community...we would suck if we were all the same...coming from my POV, knowing many women and men who are pagan...the majority of us are not bi...bi-friendly perhaps...we know how it is to be lashed out at for our "satanic ways" and our "evilness"...pretty much the outlook had by homophobics...we fear things we don't understand...
all of us are individuals...we are all different...there is no where written that you have to be bi to be a pagan...you don't have to, but you're less afraid to take that particular title...you're more open to it because the fear of rejection and public denouncement...those of us who have had to live with the fear of it all know what i mean...how can something so beautiful be so wrong...
my point is...and i don't mean to ramble...just because the stereotype says so doesn't make it so...
Two things I would address in this paragraph:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
1) Most who reject biblically based spirituality do not actually challenge the "ideal" as you suggest. They instead take for granted that the ideal is indeed biblically based.
They assume that because so many people say that the bible says something, that this must be what the bible says. Then they reject both the people and the bible.
The fact is that the few passages from the bible which many use to condemn homosexuality as sin, do not actually support their prejudice.
You will notice that the ones who are not just repeating things someone else has told them, but who actually try to make convincing arguments, rely heavily on non-biblical texts to support their distortions of the bible.
For example, there is a passage in 1 Corinthians where several types of sinners are listed. The original King James Version of the Bible specifies one of those as the "effeminate". The New King James Version says "homosexuals".
However, there is a footnote. The term they have now decided to translate as "homosexuals" actually refers to catamites. Catamites are boys who have sex with adult men!
The obvious challenge is, why have they translated this term as homosexual when the more obvious sinner would be pedophile? It is difficult for a Christian who is not prejudiced against GLBT people to believe that the Bible would concern itself with the personal relationships of consenting same-sex adults but have nothing to say about pedophilia.
By the way, you'll notice that there is no reference to lesbians at all. In fact, I cannot find a reference in the Old Testament that even comes close to discussing lesbianism. The passages that do seem to mention them along with gay men, are actually condemnations of "unnatural" pagan worship services that appear to have more to do with straight people, or all people.
2) Sex as sin is rarely confronted by Judeo-Christians in the secular, political realm, as they do homosexuality. One almost gets the impression that opposite-sex sin is AOK.
For example, in order to be consistent, my fellow Christians who think that they know what the term "unnatural" refers to in those infamous passages, and who want to ban marriage for same-sex couples, must also ban marriage for opposite-sex couples, if those couples participate in the same "unnatural" act that many gay men participate in. Don't they?
What I am trying to say is, as a bi-sexual man, I do not have to abandon biblical spirituality. I prefer to challenge and reject the peer pressure which leads to prejudice.
I'm Asatru, which is a reconstructionist religion based on the religion of the ancient Norse. I'm the only one I know of that's bisexual, actually. Sadly, the religion is itself the subject of lots of prejudice from outside because of the fact that Hitler attempted (and failed) to hijack the religious symbols of the old Norse during WWII in an attempt to get the local peoples to support him. He only succeeded in making them angry, but more recently, certain neo-Nazi groups have attempted to associate themselves with the Asatru religion (much to the disgust of every Asatru I've ever met).
So, yeah...
I think you'll find a lot of bisexual people in the Neo-Pagan community because at it's core, paganism honors the duality of God AND Goddess. Male and Female are very much at play as core concepts of divinity, hence, its adherents tend to be more open to exploring both the male and female sides of their sexuality.
I am a Neo-Pagan and I'm Bi. Personally, I enjoy exploring the energies of both males and females. Both are unique and VERY enjoyable!!!
Blessings.
totally agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoll
Hm... Ever since I was a little girl I have been a role-player, gamer and into sci-fi. I used to be Wicca (but now Agnostic)... And I've always been bi..
This explains everything!!!
LOL.
This article is interesting, to say the least.
Fun read.
excuse me if i didn't read all hundreds of the posts
i've been an avid online religious political debater for a while now
some background im x-christian that turned atheist, dabbled with some satanists, then confirmed my ahtiesm, atheism isn't the "beleif there is no god"
it is the lack of any beleif for the observance of the scientifically proven and the truth, atheist is literally a abbreviation for AntiTheist
Now in my studies i haven oticed one thing, anti-homosexuality bigotry is focused mainly on those "newer" religions known as the RHP or Right Hand Path religions.
This includes all forms of christianity, Judiasms, and Islam, as well as any sect of religion broken and mixed from these.
The majority of "ancient/pagan" religions either has no involvment in sexual preferences or promotes the act of homosexuality one way or another.
In other words there is no bigotry in the laws of the religion that forbids any kind of homosexual action, and in some religions getting naked and having orgy's was part of the practice of the religion and not seen as a sexual deviancy.
The oddest thing is, the original RHP religion, Greece "mythology" from which all RHP religions evolved from the most, has no outspoken preference against gay people and it is known by recordings that bisexuality was avidly practiced by the ancient greek people.
In for a penny, in for a pound. We are what Dr. Helen Fisher ('Why Him, Why Her?') calls "Explorers"
Liked this and I think it's a simple matter of when you accept you are bisexual there is automatic rejection by the religions. Yet, discovering one's sexuality is a spiritual path. To retain a spiritual identity and be bisexual can only lead to occultism, the pagan way. Maybe it works the other way too?
I discovered my pagan identity about twelve years ago, well after my sexuality. It provides me with comfort and joy. My paganism leans towards Druidism.
My daughter is a Wiccan. I think women go for Wicca in a big way, more than men?
My Grandfather was Druid and it was kept secret from me. I think the family were ashamed of his values. He was pacifist and served as an ambulance officer in France in the first world war.
I don't think we are kinky. I think we are kind people getting on as best we can in a cruel world.
I am a Bi Pagan, I was raised by an atheist mother and Baptist father. I have traveled far and met many different pagan groups as well as ceremonial, chaos and satanic magi. I have found that groups who are ensconced in a particular tradition that has been around for awhile, tend to have more closed minds, Gardnarians and Dianics, as well as followers of the Golden Dawn and Kabbalah, just to name a few. I have also come across groups in which if you are not bi, you were an outcast. It seems the looser the organization, the more open minded they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrat74
Yup even Pagans and Wiccans can be very close minded, big into ritual and loving their dogma.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrat74
I thought about being pagan, but if I can not tolerate one god how will I ever tolerate many?:eek:
What happens their is no control people and their sexual habits???/How many dynasties have colapsed from bad sexual practices??? Lots..Quote:
Originally Posted by ghytifrdnr
:eek: i DONT KNOW.
MABY THEY ARE ALL ALIENS :tong: