Holy shit canticle lol. Well, I hope that getting that novel off of your chest made you feel better :tongue:
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Holy shit canticle lol. Well, I hope that getting that novel off of your chest made you feel better :tongue:
If you think THAT one was extreme...... you should hear her when she is in one of her less lucid moments.Quote:
Originally Posted by rissababynta
But a statement like that indicates to me that you may very well be in serious need of some psychological counceling... Please try to seek some help.
In many cultures and religions its spoken of those that Can hear Spirits and know that a loved one is close. Clergie hear voices all the time, and they arent sent in to a shrink. Dont knock someone for their personal, cultural beliefs, Adam. Just because it isnt in your little realm of belief doesnt make it untrue.
Cat
One more comment. I have never been known, by friends and relatives, alike, to be anything but lucid, totally sane, truthful, trustworthy and have the ability to listen to the thoughts, ideas, views of others and even if I may violently disagree with them, be able to go away and take something from that experience...actually learn something...and therefore rejoice in the reality, that I have gained more depth of thought...more clarity of vision.
The Great Spirit moves through, within and around us all, Cat. You feel it, I feel, Twyla feels it and countless other people. We are enriched by that feeling and knowledge and not limited in our outlook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat
Without Her……Dante Gabriel Rossetti….on the death of his wife,
Elizabeth Siddal
What of her glass without her? The blank grey
There where the pool is blind of the moon’s face,
Her dress without her? The tossed empty space
Of cloud-rack whence the moon has passed away.
Her path’s without her? Day’s appointed sway
Usurped by desolate night. Her pillowed place
Without her! Tears, Ah me! For love’s good grace
And cold forgetfulness of night or day.
What of the heart without her? Nay, poor heart,
Of thee what word remains ere speech be still?
A wayfarer by barren ways and chill,
Steep ways and weary, without her thou art,
Where the long cloud, the long wood’s counterpart,
Sheds doubled darkness up the labouring hill.
"Tenni…are you really serious?? Why is the discussion of such things out of place on a bisexual site and disrespectful of other posters’ philosophical positions? Does that mean that only certain subjects should be discussed and only certain philosphical outlooks? Has it not occurred to you that the spiritual beliefs of wiccan and other pagan beliefs and the beliefs of Christian Spiritualists, such as myself, form the rock upon which we base our philosophy."
Canticle
Yes, I am serious. I would like to be respectful of your spiritual perspective. In fact, my own perspective is not Christian but nor is it Wicca or your own belief from what I read here.
After reflecting upon what I posted, I would like to clarify. I was about to post a topic that was not directly related to bisexuality and realized that I had better put my posts where my thoughts are...:eek: I'm not sure where the boundaries are but sensitivity to others beliefs is a good idea for all of us. I include myself. Too much political and religious chatter may divide us or even repulse some posters. I do love a good discussion on these topics though. I'm torn. :(
I am genuinely quite surprised at how often Wicca, Pagan and Spiritualism is posted on this site. It does give me the impression that many bisexuals are really into these belief structures if I didn't know otherwise. I realize that for some reason or other certain vocal posters are inclined to bring this perspective up. I have never seen so much written about Wicca, Pagan, Spiritualism posted on any other site dealing with sexuality or generally. There is also a certain amount of posting about Christian extremists and bigotry toward GLBT. That make much more sense to me than to read these other spiritual aspect coming up as frequently as they do.
I think that the poems are interesting on this thread. I think that discussing death is an interesting topic. I think that concepts about an after life may be inevitable to come up on this topic. I was just thinking as I read your post about the more scientific explanation about death. I have heard it explained scientifically as the dying process of the brain. The brain may live/function longer than other organs during the dying process. There is an area of the brain that will hallucinate if cut off from oxygen as the brain is shutting down. This causes this sensation/concept of travelling through a tunnel, seeing the dead, etc. I also was thinking about what determines a spiritual dream like experience from a delusional hallucination? I suspect that it might involve endangerment to self or others. I'm inclined to think that it is a fine line but that might be an intetesting thread not connected to bisexuality..or maybe better for me to research on my own..;)
Now, I also had a good friend who experienced near death. He said that he floated above his body and saw the doctors and his body. He was brought back. I actually have one of his paintings on this after death experience. I would no more ignore his experience than I ignore what science states about death and the hallucinations as the brain is dying. In fact, I find that science supports his after death experience but differently than a spiritual perspective. I think that his explanation of his near death experience is much more romantic...lol It changed how he chose to live his life. That is a fact.
As to whether Wicca, Christianity etc. form the basis of philosophy, I think that I would be inclined to write that it plays a role in some areas such as Metaphysics and Religion but I think that the word philosophy is far wider than any one religiion or spiritual belief. If Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language, then it is wider than the parameters that you mention. Socrates was not a Christian but was key to the foundation of western philosophy. Ethics, Aesthetics, Logic, Epistemology and several others are all part of philosophy. Karl Marx may be seen as a philosopher and Communism may also be argued as a philosophy by some. It may also be argued as a political system...so keep yer pants on about that argument...lol. Communism rejects spirituality and religion.
Now, how comfortable are some to accept discussions on the positives of Communism? etc. if someone has a spiritual or philosophical perspective it can be very subjective while others will examine it from an intellectual approach. We have posters who wish to emote all over these threads and others who wish to examine such issues from a more analytical intellectual approach. Are they compatible?
"’Lubrication with self medication can be alright. Just try not to over do it. You'd be missed.
Besides I can think of better use for lubrication.’’‘’
Methinks what you may be referring to, doth not exist…except in someone’s fantasies.
First, many of us know the Trickster of many faces. We may be a bit naive but far from stupid. Don't recall handing you reign as Mum. Appreciate the sentiment but I'm capable enough, too.
...and if you take Adam's words about respecting you, then you are sorely mistaken.
Possibly. Did you read further my post. It was clear I afforded him nothing more than I afford many here, respect. Oft it is said to gain a thing you first give it away.
And finally, my apologies for appearing so brogue with you here as to tack you unto the wall. That's not my intent. Merely further clarifying the perspective. "
You read Rossetti? Damn. Next you'll announce viewing Raffaello via Picaso's moon. And no I don't mean this a snark. I truly am impressed you read Rossetti. Of course, coming from a culture that gave us Coleridge suppose it ought be expected. Wonder if you dare read Arnold.
Not so surprisin Canticle read Rosetti.. Beeb did a drama serial called "Desperate Romantics" las year.. bout the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood.. wos very gud an all an not hugely innacurate as dramas go.. has meant a big increase in interest in ther art, poetry an readin books bout them an 'bout Lizzie Siddal an all. Ifya get a chance 2catch it on PBS or Beeb 'Merica.. hav lil look see.. is worth the effort..:)Quote:
Originally Posted by void_dweller
Its fun 2 wotch!!!:tong:
''Canticle
Yes, I am serious. I would like to be respectful of your spiritual perspective. In fact, my own perspective is not Christian but nor is it Wicca or your own belief from what I read here.''
I need to correct you here.....my own belief....I am a Christian Spiritualist. My church is a Christian Spiritualist church. I have moved on slightly in my spiritual beliefs, but as this has been a life long journey, with me now into the 41st year of being a Christian, I still identify, very much, as being basically Christian.
However, my Christian belief has always been a very personal one...not always in favour with other, so called Christians. Like I have never belonged to a church...not until the church I discovered in 2002. I didn't stay because of the belefs....but because of the people.
I've never believed in a virgin birth, or that a Jesus was the Son of God, or that Judas betrayed him. In fact in the last 3-4 years, with my spiritual growth, I have come to realise that I have never believed in a creator God and I think that if there was a man called Jesus...he died on the cross.
What for me, makes me a Christian...is that I believe in the purported words that man preached, but I believe that those word have also been preached by many other men/women...either of religion....or not.
I could go on being a Christian without the Spiritualism....I could not be a Spiritualist without my Christian beliefs. Hope that makes sense.
''After reflecting upon what I posted, I would like to clarify. I was about to post a topic that was not directly related to bisexuality and realized that I had better put my posts where my thoughts are...:eek: I'm not sure where the boundaries are but sensitivity to others beliefs is a good idea for all of us. I include myself. Too much political and religious chatter may divide us or even repulse some posters. I do love a good discussion on these topics though. I'm torn. :(''
There should be no boundaries. If there is no discussion, we do not communicate with, or learn about, the people and teachings of other belief systems. If there is no communication, there is stagnation and ignorance. Where there is stagnation and ignorance, there grows hatred and persecution happens. Where there is hatred and persecution, there is a numbing of the true spiritual growth, which could be achieved. Without that spiritual growth, humankind suffers.
''I am genuinely quite surprised at how often Wicca, Pagan and Spiritualism is posted on this site. It does give me the impression that many bisexuals are really into these belief structures if I didn't know otherwise. I realize that for some reason or other certain vocal posters are inclined to bring this perspective up. I have never seen so much written about Wicca, Pagan, Spiritualism posted on any other site dealing with sexuality or generally. There is also a certain amount of posting about Christian extremists and bigotry toward GLBT. That make much more sense to me than to read these other spiritual aspect coming up as frequently as they do.''
I would ask you. What makes a belief Pagan? To the Romans, Christianity and any other belief system was Pagan. I have heard 21st century creationist Christians, refer to the Roman Catholic Church, as pagan. Does mainstream. non-creationist Christiaity call Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism etc etc, pagan? I have never heard the other religions called pagan and yet, if the Christian church thinks it is the way, the truth and the light, surely, they should be calling other religions pagan.
As far as I am concerned there is no such thing as Pagan. The beliefs of Native Americans, the old ''pagan religions''....any belief system which venerates the earth and all on and in it, can never be thought of as pagan. I would not call the beliefs of the Greeks and Romans, pagan. There are spiritual things to be found, in most religion. We are of Spirit. The Spirit moves within us and makes us who we are.
''I think that the poems are interesting on this thread. I think that discussing death is an interesting topic. I think that concepts about an after life may be inevitable to come up on this topic. I was just thinking as I read your post about the more scientific explanation about death and the concept of going to an after life and then returning to this world. I have heard it explained scientifically as the dying of the brain. There is an area of the brain that will hallucinate if cut off from oxygen as the brain is shutting down that causes this concept of travelling through a tunnel, seeing the dead, etc. I also was thinking about what determines a spiritual dream like experience from a delusional hallucination? I suspect that it might involve endangerment to self or others. I'm inclined to think that it is a fine line but that might be an intetesting thread not connected to bisexuality..or maybe better for me to research on my own..;)''
I do not believe in the death of the energy, which some call the soul and I call spirit. I believe that it moves on, to another state. My late mother, once asked me to describe what I thought the Spirit World (paradise, heaven...call it what you will), was like.
I could only describe what I believe, in this way. In the series, Star Trek -Deep Space 9, there was a character, a shape shifter called, Odo. His natural state was liquid. When his home planet was eventually found, he went down to the surface. In front of him was a shimmering lake. It was not a lake. It was his people...all in liquid form, separate and yet one whole.
This was my explanation to her, a highly intelligent woman and she got what what I meant. I believe that what I call the universal essence...the life force, which joins us all....is very much like this, too.
Therefore, for me, death of the body is not the same, as the energy, spirit, soul, moving on. I have read all about the things you mention and also watched documentaries upon the subject. I don't know about near death experiences. I am sceptical myself. I guess that if I had had one, I would think differently.
Any Spiritual experience, which I have had, has been when I was wide awake, and perfectly in control of my senses. I've never hallucinated.....I think that you need certain things to cause hallucination and I neither imbibe, or swallow any. I know people who do see spirit, externally and they too, are not hallucinating. I don't see anything. Sorry to disappoint you there.
However, my son and daughter do. They are not likely to imbibe or take into their bodies anything, to cause halluciations, either. Many people see things. Most don't talk about it, for fear of ridicule. Thankfully, my son and daughter, are not afraid to say that they have seen things. However, being normal and perfectly sane young people, they do not dwell upon such matters and get on with what they are supposed to do...and that is living their lives.
If things are seen, heard, experienced in anyway, due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, illness, an injury to the brain, I would not call that a true experience. For me, things have to be experienced in the cold light of day.
Someone might try to say that the epilepsy I have and the drugs I require to control it, will cause any experience I may have witnessed or felt. Sadly, they would be very wrong. Now if I have back ache and take some codeine and paracetamol, I will get sleepy and maybe have a vivid dream...but anything spiritual.....the hell it will be....lol.
''Now, I also had a good friend who experienced near death. He said that he floated above his body and saw the doctors and his body. He was brought back. I actually have one of his paintings on this after death experience. I would no more ignore his experience than I ignore what science states about death and the hallucinations as the brain is dying. I think that his explanation of his near death experience is much more romantic...lol''
Near death experience, I have commented on. Out of body experience...I don't know. I have a friend...very much alive...who claims to have had one. Maybe she did.....I don't know.
''As to whether Wicca, Christianity etc. form the basis of philosophy, I think that I would be inclined to write that it plays a role in some areas such as Metaphysics and Religion but I think that the word philosophy is far wider than any one religiion or spiritual belief.''
I would agree and very awkwardly and stubbornly say...''Well of course it would.''....lol
''If Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language, then it is wider than the parameters that you mention.''
Well of course it is. However, I was talking about a certain mindset, more than the wider field of play.
''Socrates was not a Christian but was key to the foundation of western philosophy.''
There is no argument there. He was alao a Pagan! :bigrin:
''Ethics, Aesthetics, Logic, Epistemology and several others are all part of philosophy.''
Filling ones head with these is all very well, but if one does not lead a life where one treats others humans, with respect and love, the study of all that jazz means nothing. A member of a rain forest tribe, is just as wise and understanding of the world he lives in and the stars in the sky and the hearts of other humans, as any philosopher. Probably, more so.
''Karl Marx may be seen as a philosopher and Communism may also be argued as a philosophy by some. It may also be argued as a political system...so keep yer pants on about that argument...lol. Communism rejects spirituality and religion.''
Maybe it can...and maybe it can't. It can also be seen as a good excuse for exerting control over a people......a State Religion. Ultimately Communism fails....probably because it does deny spirituality. I did read, that before he died, Karl Marx had come to the conclusion, that he had got it all very wrong.
You can keeps the pants Tenni...lol....I don't wear trousers....lol....and for shame....guess what.....I'm a Socialist!
LOL...I don't watch television. I've loved Pre-Raphaelite art since about 1973.....and way back then, watched a series about the Pre-Raphaelites, with Ben Kingsley playing Rosetti. Also been to Ruskin's home. Brantwood, overlooking Conistonwater. Even was naughty and stood at his viewing point window...and it said not to. Drooled over a Burne-Jones and scowled at a Holman-Hunt. Must read the 6 volumes of Ruskin's, Stones of Venice....one of these days. I love the later paintings of Rosetti...but think is poetry is naff.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeyes
Ever heard the story about poor Lizzie being the model for John Everett Millais' Ophelia and she had to lie in a bathtub full of water...for the realism. Millais and Rosetti were meant to keep lighting candles under the tub, to keep the water warm. They forgot and poor Lizzie...she caught a chill.
Void......I never have been....never will be a trickster.....that's if you were referring to me. If someone else...then...whatever....and if a someone else...then No, you don't know the trickster....you really don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by void_dweller
Never a Mum!!!! Perish the thought!!! It's either Mother or Mummy.
Tack me to the wall???.....LOL.....Not a chance!
''You read Rossetti? Damn. Next you'll announce viewing Raffaello via Picaso's moon. And no I don't mean this a snark. I truly am impressed you read Rossetti. Of course, coming from a culture that gave us Coleridge suppose it ought be expected. Wonder if you dare read Arnold.''
I think I was reading Rossetti, before you were born, I like poetry, but would never claim to be an expert, or as widely read as others. Have your snark, I don't know who or what Raffaello was or is.....though I do know the art of Raphael. I like some Picasso, but I am not a great lover of most of his work. Rossetti's poetry I'm not too fond of, nor Coleridge. Arnold....no I have never read him.
I do believe .that you think me some kind of moron, Void. Well I'm not. You try too hard. It doesn't wash with me.
I can agree with much of this Canticle hun. I dont agree with there being something after my clogs are popped except a reversion to stardust.. and whether Marx recanted at the end is very much something no one can say for sure. I doubt it but who knows. But your and my beliefs are very personal.. they cant be proved one way or other.. neither can those of God believers.. no one has yet come back to tell.. unless of course you count Christ and like you I have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canticle
There are those even among athiests who believe Jesus was probably a real person.. maybe he was.. no documentary or other evidence for his existence exists from the time he actually lived and died to prove or disprove it other than the scriptures written 30 years and more after his supposed death. That he was not the son of God, or God the Son or whatever people wish to call him is debatable, and I for one think it a terrific fairy tale. A not even very original fairy tale at that... but many believe it and thats fine with me.. you and I are as different from each other as we both are from those who believe in God and the Christ doctrine.
Yet for all our differences I find that you too are a socialist.. it warms the cockles of my heart to know that.. but I also have no doubt that if we sat down and debated our views on socialism, they would be as far apart as our views on Christianity and spirituality..:tong:
I guess one ought to go to Kensal Green Cemetery....and shout at that old devil with the beard, but would he hear....''Oi, Karl....did ya realise it was all a lot of claptrap, after all''.......Nah......he'd be snoring too much to hear the dulcet tones of this English rose.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeyes
Yes, Fran.....I'm a Socialist.....but like any other beliefs...ideas....it's a very personal view. Let's face it....I am a Socialist who votes for a Conservative MP. Why do I do that? Simple...he is a darn good MP...and I'd vote for him....whatever his political colour. He asks questions...he keeps asking questions....he looks into every problem that people have....and he gets mighty and frustrated when he can't get a result.
I studied British Constitution and one thing sticks in my memory. If you have a good MP...what ever his party...hang on to him. I got an 'A' too...so I must have quite good at the subject....LOL!
I know why I am a Socialist.....my Dad. Not because he was a political activist, nor because he voted Labour (which he did)....but because of who he was. Born at a time when a lot of working class lads didn't get the chance of an education, he had to leave school and go straight ito the Mill ad then joined the Army.
When he came back to Blighty, he trained as a Sheet Metal Worker...a skilled man...and yet throughout his working life, this skilled man got no pay when he was sick and no pay when he was on holiday. He also suffered with an ulcer for 30 years and sometimes had to almost crawl to work, so that he could feed his family, living on steamed fish and bread and milk.
Yet this man was not stupid and any artistic skills I have, I get from him and I have passed those down to my children. He lived for nine years after his retirement and then we watched him die from lung cancer. He was a fine man, loved and respected by all who knew him. I respect him more and more each year.
I have a son who is exactly like him and a daughter he watches over, even though she never knew him. Her grandad Bill is very much a real grandad for her, as is her paternal grandfather. I've been told by many Mediums that he watches over my daughter and one day, we were in my bedroom, and sat on my bed, sorting some pictures or something out...can't remember. My daughter suddenly said...in a very matter of fact manner...the way we do at 17....''Oh, by the way, I saw grandad Bill in my room, a couple of weeks ago''....Mother is sat there...mouth open and managed an, ''Oh'' and then a ''What happened''....''I was doing my homework, looked up and there he was''.......
I believe she saw him. She has seen him since and very often will say...''he's over there''.....It pleases me to think that he might be around,,,but I don't dwell upon it and she most certainly does not. Too busy being nearly 21.
I wish he had had the chance to be educated. He was artistic, in a practical way and he was good at maths and boy, could he make a mean Victoria sponge and the best cup of tea in the world.
I miss him and I wish I had appreciated him as much before he passed. That's why I'm a Socialist. My Dad. And Dennis Potter was responsible for me becoming a Christian....but that's another story...LOL.
"I think I was reading Rossetti, before you were born,
From reading your post to dark_eyes, you were reading Rossetti from 1973 on. I was born in 1972, I know it's not much but it is what it is. :)
I like poetry, but would never claim to be an expert, or as widely read as others. Have your snark, I don't know who or what Raffaello was or is.....though I do know the art of Raphael.
Um, Raffaello is Rapheal's proper Italian name. And I remain and will remain earnest about not snarking.
I like some Picasso, but I am not a great lover of most of his work. Rossetti's poetry I'm not too fond of, nor Coleridge. Arnold....no I have never read him.
Here's Buried Life for you, one of Arnold's that has stuck with me for a quite a spell.
Matthew Arnold (1822-1888)
The Buried Life
1Light flows our war of mocking words, and yet,
2Behold, with tears mine eyes are wet!
3I feel a nameless sadness o'er me roll.
4Yes, yes, we know that we can jest,
5We know, we know that we can smile!
6But there's a something in this breast,
7To which thy light words bring no rest,
8And thy gay smiles no anodyne.
9Give me thy hand, and hush awhile,
10And turn those limpid eyes on mine,
11And let me read there, love! thy inmost soul.
12Alas! is even love too weak
13To unlock the heart, and let it speak?
14Are even lovers powerless to reveal
15To one another what indeed they feel?
16I knew the mass of men conceal'd
17Their thoughts, for fear that if reveal'd
18They would by other men be met
19With blank indifference, or with blame reproved;
20I knew they lived and moved
21Trick'd in disguises, alien to the rest
22Of men, and alien to themselves--and yet
23The same heart beats in every human breast!
24But we, my love!--doth a like spell benumb
25Our hearts, our voices?--must we too be dumb?
26Ah! well for us, if even we,
27Even for a moment, can get free
28Our heart, and have our lips unchain'd;
29For that which seals them hath been deep-ordain'd!
30Fate, which foresaw
31How frivolous a baby man would be--
32By what distractions he would be possess'd,
33How he would pour himself in every strife,
34And well-nigh change his own identity--
35That it might keep from his capricious play
36His genuine self, and force him to obey
37Even in his own despite his being's law,
38Bade through the deep recesses of our breast
39The unregarded river of our life
40Pursue with indiscernible flow its way;
41And that we should not see
42The buried stream, and seem to be
43Eddying at large in blind uncertainty,
44Though driving on with it eternally.
45But often, in the world's most crowded streets,
46But often, in the din of strife,
47There rises an unspeakable desire
48After the knowledge of our buried life;
49A thirst to spend our fire and restless force
50In tracking out our true, original course;
51A longing to inquire
52Into the mystery of this heart which beats
53So wild, so deep in us--to know
54Whence our lives come and where they go.
55And many a man in his own breast then delves,
56But deep enough, alas! none ever mines.
57And we have been on many thousand lines,
58And we have shown, on each, spirit and power;
59But hardly have we, for one little hour,
60Been on our own line, have we been ourselves--
61Hardly had skill to utter one of all
62The nameless feelings that course through our breast,
63But they course on for ever unexpress'd.
64And long we try in vain to speak and act
65Our hidden self, and what we say and do
66Is eloquent, is well--but 't is not true!
67And then we will no more be rack'd
68With inward striving, and demand
69Of all the thousand nothings of the hour
70Their stupefying power;
71Ah yes, and they benumb us at our call!
72Yet still, from time to time, vague and forlorn,
73From the soul's subterranean depth upborne
74As from an infinitely distant land,
75Come airs, and floating echoes, and convey
76A melancholy into all our day.
77Only--but this is rare--
78When a belovèd hand is laid in ours,
79When, jaded with the rush and glare
80Of the interminable hours,
81Our eyes can in another's eyes read clear,
82When our world-deafen'd ear
83Is by the tones of a loved voice caress'd--
84A bolt is shot back somewhere in our breast,
85And a lost pulse of feeling stirs again.
86The eye sinks inward, and the heart lies plain,
87And what we mean, we say, and what we would, we know.
88A man becomes aware of his life's flow,
89And hears its winding murmur; and he sees
90The meadows where it glides, the sun, the breeze.
91And there arrives a lull in the hot race
92Wherein he doth for ever chase
93That flying and elusive shadow, rest.
94An air of coolness plays upon his face,
95And an unwonted calm pervades his breast.
96And then he thinks he knows
97The hills where his life rose,
98And the sea where it goes.
I do believe .that you think me some kind of moron, Void. Well I'm not. You try too hard. It doesn't wash with me.
Believe as you will, even if incorrect. I don't think you a moron at all. I do not try hard enough to be honest. I have a fear of actually stepping up and making full use and application of the gifts bestowed, for leading to success. There's a stigma regarding power absolute corrupting as so. Really prefer not to be royal jerk that can astound you with one hundred quid lexicon when a mere farthing does as well. As for what washes or doesn't, again believe as you will.
"
''From reading your post to dark_eyes, you were reading Rossetti from 1973 on. I was born in 1972, I know it's not much but it is what it is. :)''
Wrong.....I've loved Pre-Raphaelite art since about 1973.......the poetry of Rossetti, came much later. :rolleyes:
Um, Raffaello is Rapheal's proper Italian name. And I remain and will remain earnest about not snarking.
Ah...I was misled.....for I had toyed with idea of you meaning Raphael.....but was sure that there was only one 'f' in the Italian.....and anyway...was that not his ''professonal'' name.....I'm sure he had a given name...rather different
from Raphael. I hate to point something out to you..... Rapheal's
;)
By the way...I loathe the works of Raphael. Now...Giotto or Hieronymous Bosch....quite another matter.
Believe as you will, even if incorrect. I don't think you a moron at all. I do not try hard enough to be honest. I have a fear of actually stepping up and making full use and application of the gifts bestowed, for leading to success. There's a stigma regarding power absolute corrupting as so. Really prefer not to be royal jerk that can astound you with one hundred quid lexicon when a mere farthing does as well. As for what washes or doesn't, again believe as you will.
LOL......You leave one almost speechless and gasping for air. :tong:
The Arnold was interesting...though immensely depressing.......(I have forgotten....are there two ''e''s in immensely......Ho Hum.
You guessed........I always believe what I will...........:tongue:
Bingo. The script roll just became unglued. A troll enters the net.
Too many little things sum it up.
Oh good grief. Twy! End this thread before it become a 15 page thesis paper somewhere. Stick a fork in it you guys, its over done.
Hey Twy, Riss, and Duckie and a cpl others..lets got to the pub..lol
Cat
ROFLMAO Cat, let's go me and Duckie are definitely up for it.
And agreed, this simple thread about the topic of death has led to a discussion of politics. Get a grip guys. Drew please lock this thread.
Don't know who you mean, Void, but it sure as hell isn't me. Do you reckon that your little digs are clever, because they are not. Your attempts, at deciding who and what. are this and that, merely come over as very deliberately worded, flowery, pseuso-intellectual nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by void_dweller
Too true...too many things sum it up. You and others are obsessed with trolls...and I've not see such an obsesseion on any other site and you only like things to be said in a certain manner. Get a grip Void, this is a web site. There is a real world out there. If people cannot exchange views and threads cannot be allowed to change course, then people are not communicating properly.
Twyla, I think my reply to Fran was quite appropriate. I was talking about my Dad, as having been an inspiration to me. A man who was the best you could find and he departed this life in 1984. Each year, I miss him more and more...appreciate him more and more. That's no poem....but like a poem...those words express thoughts and feelings.
And you want a thread locked! Sheesh, bang goes freedom of thought being expressed....once again.
Expressing what one believes, the ideas one has, the thoughts which go through ones head and getting them down on paper, or in type, can never be ''over done.'' How sad that you feel that something should be ended, because the thread has changed coiurse slightly and although keeping to a basically spiritual theme, has branched out in other directions (except for the ridiculous troll calling...as usual). This change is called, ''evolution''......but you would like to see evolution stifled. How sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat
I got a better idea, why don't you all come over to my house where there is FREE alcohol ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherokee_Mountaincat
Well...at least I understand why you would want the thread closed...:rolleyes:
Obsession with Trollies Canticle? I've put my ore in about that from time to time. Voidie isnt the only oneas you will have noticed.. being obsessed and goin gaga bout the buggers only encourages them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Canticle
..and I agree with u about locking down the thread. Why? I can see no reason whatever but maybe cat and Twyla can enlighten us...
My dad thankfully is alive and very hale and hearty, and I adore the old gett. He more than anyone has been my inspiration for so many things. O I know he spoils me, and I have always played on that much to the chagrin of my elder brother and sister. Yet there are good reasons for why we are so close. We have much the same warped sense of humour, and both of us are a bit childlike. Ever since I can remember it has been him and me against the world. It was he, like your dad with you who gave me my grounding into socialism, and he who more than anyone encouraged me never to allow the world to grind me down.
He isn't like your dad Twyla. He is a baby boomer, and has all of his life lived under the welfare state. Coming from a mining family his father made it clear from a very young age that he was never to go down the pit. My granpa worked like a trojan to ensure that his children would never struggle like he had, and would never want. He worked hard to provide all the resources for them to get the education he believed was their right.
I am considered middle class, although my attitudes are those of the old working class, because my dad has never lost sight of his roots. He knows and is eternally grateful for the sacrifices his father made for him to get where he is today, and he has made sure my brother, sister and I remember what working people have gone through so that we and our generation and the generations yet to come never endure the misery of those who went before. He has made a very good career for himself and is pretty well off.. Mum too, and they make a wonderful team. He more than anyone was crestfallen when I decided to finally leave the Labour Party. Yet he stood back and did not criticise.. he listened and understood and accepted I have my own life to lead. He accepted that the Labour Party no longer played any part in my life and that differences were both irreconcilable and irreversible.
We are products of our ubringing as I have often said in the past. The person I am, and the attitudes I have, and the beliefs I hold are due more to my dad than to any other human being. Spoiled sure. I am certainly that. But not in a bad or nasty way I think. When my old man dies, it will hit home in a way which I know you will understand. No one can lose their mentor, their confidante, their oldest and dearest friend, their adored father and not have that leave a hole in their heart. He has always been there for me at the best and worst of times. I don't dwell on it, but it terrifies me that some day he will just not be there any more and sometimes at unexpected moments I break down in uncontrollable tears at that very thought.
It is my dad who coined the name "darkeyes" when I was very little. Deep dark and mysterious he used to say. Ha... shows what he knows.. but maybe when I was little I dont know. Nowadays he calls me Frankie like the rest of my family. I hate it and they know it, but they all persist..but when it rolls off his tongue there is a love and gentleness which comes through like from no one else. When my dad calls me Frankie it says to me I'm truly special.
God I've gone on so.. I'm sorry. I can talk about my dad till the cows come home.. he may think me special.. but it is nothing to how I feel about him...:)
DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas
Death the Leveller
The glories of our blood and state
Are shadows, not substantial things;
There is no armour against Fate;
Death lays his icy hand on kings:
Sceptre and Crown
Must tumble down,
And in the dust be equal made
With the poor crooked scythe and spade.
Some men with swords may reap the field,
And plant fresh laurels where they kill:
But their strong nerves at last must yield;
They tame but one another still:
Early or late
They stoop to fate,
And must give up their murmuring breath
When they, pale captives, creep to death.
The garlands wither on your brow;
Then boast no more your mighty deeds!
Upon Death's purple altar now
See where the victor-victim bleeds.
Your heads must come
To the cold tomb:
Only the actions of the just
Smell sweet and blossom in their dust.
James Shirley (1596-1666)
Canticle
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would like to add a few thoughts.
First, My first statement about Christians etc. was not directed at you and your beliefs but thanks for expanding your perspective. I also note that Cat and Rissa are begging that this thread stop and they want to go to the "pub" or get drunk together. That is an example of some posters wanting to emote on this site and damn the other comments. In my opinion this seems to reinforce a perspective that there is a controlling clique mentality on this site.
As far as Marx, those of us from societies with universal healthcare are not the ones who might choke about discussing the positives of Communism. Oh, I can not resist commenting on Socrates as a pagan. Now, the way that I see it is that Socrates lived an era many years prior to the birth of Christ. It is the Christians that used the term "pagan" in a derogatory word to refer to non Christians. Since the gods of Socrates' time were the mainstream belief of his society, it seems inappropriate to apply a term to Socrates that was not used in the way that it is used today. I believe that "pagan" meant "country dweller" at one time?
Cheers, I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. I agree with you about the illness on this site perhaps from here forth called "trollphobia"....:bigrin:
Excuse me, I am not BEGGING for this to be shut down, I simply said that I understood why Cat and Twyla would want it shut down. As for the pub, Cat said we should all go and I said instead of that, just come to my house and get it free.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni
I grow tired of having to constantly rewrite what I clearly say in this forum JUST so you don't make me look like an asshole Tenni. From now on when referring to me, please make sure you read what I write first cause this is starting to get annoying. If I look like a jerk because of something I do or say, then so be it. I refuse to look like an idiot because you can't seem to grasp what people say. That is just bullshit.
As another note...I'm beginning to think that perhaps you are just jealous that you aren't in any particular kind of clique;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni
As far as Socrates goes.....his beliefs (if he had any), would have been seen as pagan to others. One man's meat, is another man's poison. One man's heaven, is another man's hell. I don't know the original meaning of the word ''pagan,'' but what you posted seems reasonable to me. Oh...and I did understand that the points you made, were not aimed at me personally.
Rissa can I come over for some drinks? After reading this thread I sure as hell need a drink. :tongue:
The more the merrier. I've got Arbor Mist :bigrin: