Printable View
To each their own. Maybe if there were a Bi and About movement, or a Bi and Proud celebration put into place, more people would be more lenient to Gay Pride. But more folks are afraid to say anything or admit that they Are indeed Bi. So until there is more Bi awareness and public celebrations, why put down those who Arent afraid to show who they are?
I think we need some more Rodney King-isims in the world..."Cant we just all get along??"
My humble 2 cents worth.
Cat
well gear, there are a lot of people in the site with out multiple accounts, some have them for multiple reasons... I am not one of them either
as I said, the things I pointed out, were barely addressed.... but they have been the basis of a number of discussions in the site and barely addressed by you.....instead they were basically brushed off, instead of the aspects being addressed which was the majority of the issues are ones that revolve around bisexual men.......
there is nothing wrong with a anti monogamy stance, but its the stance around other aspects that can show where a persons true stance lays.......
as for bi visibility ( the aspect of bisexuals not being visible ) NOT the aspect of people ignoring the existence of bisexuals ( which is what is being used in the thread as a weapon against the gay and lesbian community _...... the fact remains that unless bisexuals themselves, make themselves visible, they are invisible......
and in that respect, in NZ where I live, the people that put themselves out there as the people that lead the bisexual community of NZ, actually ignore the majority of bisexuals in NZ as a lost cause and not worthy of acknowledgement..... UNLESS the rest of the bisexuals in NZ can be used as a cash cow or for acknowledgement of the group at the top of the north island that portray themselves as the head of the bisexual community....... yet its the LGBT community that acknowledge us more and offer support and help.........
if we were not visible and vocal in the public, we may as well sit in the closet in NZ, but we are not doing that....we are being responsible for representing and maintaining a on going bi visible for the top of the south island, we are making ourselves visible as a beacon and stand out because we do not have the support and help of the top of the north island bisexual community which is bigger and portray themselves to be the voice of bisexuality......
yes we have people that refuse to walk in a pride parade because they are anti the LGBT movement, they are also some of the people that are vocal about bi visibility ( both aspects ) and how we are being rendered invisible...... yet they are the ones that are refusing to be visible..... so I have first hand experience when it comes to talking about being bi visible in the community and in public.....and first hand experience with the bi community that do not care about helping, supporting and making sure that the bi community is visible.....
I am not going to ask what you are going to do about raising the visibility of the bi community because you have already answered......
I know what I am going to do, how and where, I know the people that are going to oppose me and the bisexual community, oppose the LGBT community, because they have been doing it and they will continue to do it.... but majority of them will not take the bull by the horns and start a bi group and start to being about the changes they want to see, they will not stand up publicly and say what they have to say because each time that has happened, they have stormed out of meetings and groups because they can not answer what they are going to do to help make the bisexual community more visible, most of the time they just yell and scream about who they blame for it not being possible and not once do they look in the mirror and say that if they were visible and vocal with their voice, they would be seen and heard.....they would be VISIBLE as a BISEXUAL PERSON......
And what ARE these 'things' that you don't address that you say I didn't address.....exactly? I addressed you being vague, and am doing it again!:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDD
Oh I know that sunshine. However many shoes a person claims to wear, they're always more comfy in one.Quote:
there is nothing wrong with a anti monogamy stance, but its the stance around other aspects that can show where a persons true stance lays.......
No. The visibility of Bisexuality is the issue of the thread, and the 'weapon' being used here is the 'closet'......by YOU!;)Quote:
as for bi visibility ( the aspect of bisexuals not being visible ) NOT the aspect of people ignoring the existence of bisexuals ( which is what is being used in the thread as a weapon against the gay and lesbian community _...... the fact remains that unless bisexuals themselves, make themselves visible, they are invisible.....as for bi visibility ( the aspect of bisexuals not being visible ) NOT the aspect of people ignoring the existence of bisexuals ( which is what is being used in the thread as a weapon against the gay and lesbian community _...... the fact remains that unless bisexuals themselves, make themselves visible, they are invisible......
It makes no difference if a 1000 bi's marched the street in a parade, if it's the sexuality that is being attacked by the gay community....not the people.
It's on a par with a 1000 Napoleon's in a Napoleon Parade. Nice parade.......but they're not really Napoleon.
'Put themselves out there' as in 'OUT'. Seems like you are worthless if not 'OUT' in NZ. Another feat of utter shitiness by the LGBT. Bravo!:rolleyes:Quote:
and in that respect, in NZ where I live, the people that put themselves out there as the people that lead the bisexual community of NZ, actually ignore the majority of bisexuals in NZ as a lost cause and not worthy of acknowledgement..... UNLESS the rest of the bisexuals in NZ can be used as a cash cow or for acknowledgement of the group at the top of the north island that portray themselves as the head of the bisexual community....... yet its the LGBT community that acknowledge us more and offer support and help........
So ....be 'OUT' or STFU you mean?Quote:
if we were not visible and vocal in the public, we may as well sit in the closet in NZ, but we are not doing that....we are being responsible for representing and maintaining a on going bi visible for the top of the south island, we are making ourselves visible as a beacon and stand out because we do not have the support and help of the top of the north island bisexual community which is bigger and portray themselves to be the voice of bisexuality......
Oh yes.....be 'OUT' or STFU and take the shite the 'OUT' members of the LGBT throw at you. Very clear of you.Quote:
yes we have people that refuse to walk in a pride parade because they are anti the LGBT movement, they are also some of the people that are vocal about bi visibility ( both aspects ) and how we are being rendered invisible...... yet they are the ones that are refusing to be visible..... so I have first hand experience when it comes to talking about being bi visible in the community and in public.....and first hand experience with the bi community that do not care about helping, supporting and making sure that the bi community is visible.....
I actually did tell you, in a way. But I don't think you got that right either.lolQuote:
I am not going to ask what you are going to do about raising the visibility of the bi community because you have already answered......
Oh yes...you're going to attack the closeted bi's as usual.;) If they don't do the 'OUT' thing, they are not worthy.Quote:
I know what I am going to do, how and where, I know the people that are going to oppose me and the bisexual community, oppose the LGBT community, because they have been doing it and they will continue to do it.... but majority of them will not take the bull by the horns and start a bi group and start to being about the changes they want to see, they will not stand up publicly and say what they have to say because each time that has happened, they have stormed out of meetings and groups because they can not answer what they are going to do to help make the bisexual community more visible, most of the time they just yell and scream about who they blame for it not being possible and not once do they look in the mirror and say that if they were visible and vocal with their voice, they would be seen and heard.....they would be VISIBLE as a BISEXUAL PERSON......
I wonder if you treat closeted gays & lesbians the same? I doubt it!
But of course there isn't a faction of the LGBT that denies homosexuality. NOBODY would be so utterly vindictive enough to prey on their choice to be closeted. They'd be respected, and the deniers treated as the bigoted homophobes they are!
I think you need to listen to bi's before they storm out of the room. Also read this thread better.
Language is an interesting tool. Why someone would chose words such as "bi visibility" and "bi invisibility" when there are official words (Bi Invisibility /bi erasure) is a bit of a mystery. Is the person attempting to layer and confuse the meanings?
True is the fact that bisexuals chose not to be as public about their sexuality as gays. (see how words may be used hopefully clearer). I don't think that there are any weapons being used against gays. There are statements about the benefits of taking part in Pride events or not. Some/most of these Pride events focus on marching with a banner. It has helped gays. Gays seem to have less reason not to march than bisexuals.(or more reasons to march. Some gays can not pass as hetero if they try) Are bisexuals "proud" like gays about their sexuality enough to march? It does not seem so as the numbers do not show it.
Why slur bisexuals about being in a closet(gay language) if a bisexual choses not to parade? Will bisexuals advocate for their rights like gays with methods not involving "pride" events? Time will tell but I would not put money on it.
couple of things....
its the BI community of the top of the north island that refuse to acknowledge us if we serve no financial or political gain for them. its the LGBT community that are helping us with getting a LBGT group to the pride.... thats the COMBINED gay, lesbian, bi and trans network, NOT the BI network that work with gay, lesbian and trans groups... you got them confused......
there is two very seperate groups there... one is about community and is getting things moving, the other is all about themselves and doing nothing other than putting up opposition to progress........
Being visible is not always about being out..... its possible to walk in the middle of a pride parade and be closeted and visible, but unless anybody knows that you are bisexual, you are just one of the crowd......... so it still comes back to the bisexual community and individuals....
they can be out and clearly visible, saying we are here, we are bisexual.....
they can be closeted and visible in the crowd, but nobody is going to know that they are not gay / lesbian / trans / bi / straight.....etc....
they can be out and not at the pride parade but active in helping others to go....
they can be closeted and not going at all........
it only takes one person to carry the banner for the BI... they can all be closeted or out and proud.....only one person needs to show why they are there and who they represent, in order to have more of a voice and a presence than all of the people who were not there as a way of making a stand
at the end of the day, that is the persons choice..... so its not about bashing the closeted people at all.....and thats not what I am doing as even a closeted person can boost the bi presence at a pride parade why those that are ok and happy with being out and proud, can tackle the meetings and the critics, so everybody has their place....... but if we do not go to the pride parades, then its not the gays and lesbians that have effectively shut us down, its ourselves by not going......
not every body in a protest march or a pride parade, needs to have a name or a face, but they have the presence that makes up the numbers and as long as ONE person is carry the banner saying that is what that group represents, then it becomes known why they are there.... and I would rather have 100 closeted people at a pride parade with one person carrying a banner than 100 of them sitting at home in a thread posting hell no, we won't go...............
most of the unsung heroes of the fight for equality, same sex marriage and rights, will never have their names mentioned.... but in pics of the marches, they are the ones that made the difference between one person marching and 100k people marching...... most of our opponents are the unsung opponents, we do not know how they are because it was not their names we saw in their protest marches, it was the number of people there that we saw and heard about......
so you can try and make a difference by not going to a pride parade.... and I will try and make a difference by helping send close to 20 people to one and we will see who makes the bigger difference
So after the 'If your are not out, you are shite' Parade, and bisexuality is still invisible, erased and confused for a phobia of 'out gay'.....what then?Quote:
Originally Posted by LDD
How do you propose to tackle the the erasure of a sexuality from within the LGBT, where many are opposed to its visibility?
simply and honestly ??? I am going to continue the work I do outside of the site with the LGBT groups .......and leave you and others to continue your war against the Gays and Lesbians..... and monosexuals and monogamy.... and guns.... and .... I can not remember the rest.....
how do I propose that people stop the erasure of a sexuality..... for a start, give them bisexual.com back and go create your own site for your issues with the gays and lesbians..... or the bisexuals may go create or find their own communities and sites where the borderline hate speech is not welcome.... and if they leave the site, well you can not blame the gays and lesbians for your behievour can you
ResponseQuote:
Originally Posted by Gearbox
"I am going to continue the work I do outside of the site with the LGBT groups"
Missing in the response 78 is what the poster actually is doing to fight Bi Invisibility within GL organizations. It would seem to me that I have read some suggestions.
1/ Since bisexuals are the largest non heterosexual group, the Boards of Umbrella organizations like GLBT organizations need a clear large(majority) number of bisexuals sitting on the Board as part of the bylaws and constitutions of such organizations.
2/ These Board have within their education and advocacy policies ideas of pointing out the positive roles that bisexuals have played in history, make public statements when the media reports inaccuracies about bisexuals, advocate for more inclusion of positive images of bisexuals in movies, television and documentary etc.
3/ Insure that education and support workshops etc. provide services to meet the needs of bisexuals that are unique to bisexuals rather than fit in with "gay" workshop etc. needs.
Ask the poster how many of these three changes that he is working on? How many has he been successful on changing?
[QUOTE-LDD]simply and honestly ??? I am going to continue the work I do outside of the site with the LGBT groups .......and leave you and others to continue your war against the Gays and Lesbians..... and monosexuals and monogamy.... and guns.... and .... I can not remember the rest.....[/QUOTE]
You've already pointed out your failings with bisexuals, your lack of communication, understanding of them and also your contempt for the closeted bi. But you'll just carry on doing what you're doing. This is the apathy towards bisexuality in the LGBT that the thread is about.:bigrin:
As you can not seem to accept that there are many gays & lesbians who ARE just as bad as hetero homophobes, it isn't surprising you claim there's a 'war' against them all. Monogamy & guns?:rolleyes: You want me to pinpoint why YOU should not be allowed a gun....again?
This is typical LGBT Gay Reich spiel - if you don't join us, you're against us! There is no discussion, no debate, no acceptance, no admittance and certainly no calling a gay bigot a 'bigot' coz that is homophobic.:rolleyes:Quote:
how do I propose that people stop the erasure of a sexuality..... for a start, give them bisexual.com back and go create your own site for your issues with the gays and lesbians..... or the bisexuals may go create or find their own communities and sites where the borderline hate speech is not welcome.... and if they leave the site, well you can not blame the gays and lesbians for your behievour can you
Your utter bollocks written here on a public forum, can and will be read by and contested or agreed to by anybody who thinks it's worth the wear & tear on their finger pads. Same goes for me & ALL!
As the LGBT is NOT above any criticisms either, same goes for that too. If you don't like it, tough luck!;)
Sometimes, Duckie, u seem to misunderstand what the site is about.. it is about peeps who have cares and concerns about their sexuality and who have something to say about themselves, their sexuality and those of other sexualities as well as the world at large..... and both tenni, for all the fact he makes me gnash me teeth at times, and Gear who makes me wanna forget I am a pacifist at others, have much to say and a lot to offer.. u may or may not agree but it is not ur place to tell anyone to fuck off and go elsewhere so "they"can have "their" site back... who are "they"? People who agree with u generally? And detest Gear and tenni? I doubt this site ever was what u or any of us wished for exactly... and I've been a member since a few weeks at most after it fired up....
..and guns? Well... guns are used to kill and lots of bisexuals and gay people are killed by them.. and not a few even use them to kill... I think guns is a very suitable subject for people to discuss on this or any other site which discusses human social issues.. it's a while since we discussed guns... and a while since we discussed war and capital punishment and world peace, and the environment and climate change, and conservation.and capitalism and bankers and the economy and feminism and rape and the many other issues we have discussed over the years and which of course shouldn't b discussed cos they don't affect bisexuals... ur not copping alzheimers or some otha form of dementia are ya to forget so much? ;) Lucky u have a national health service.... summat else of course we shouldn't discuss...
Personally I'd rather gnash me teeth and get really agitated (and honestly, I do both.. a lot) than stop peeps discussing such issues even if as I do, I loathe what is said, how it is said, and on occasion even the people who happen to say it.. I would rather listen to or read the most awful reactionary crap than have the gall to try and stop people saying what they think and what they believe.. and babes.. so should u and so should every other member of this site who believes in freedom of speech.. but some people claim to be in favour of our liberties and make a mint out of it.. while becoming very rich as they do everything in their power to stop those with whom they disagree having anything of the kind...
It happens I think both tenni and Gear are very wrong in what they say and how they think about Pride and they arent as right as they think they are about the lgbt or gays and lesbians...... so I get worked up and agitated.. but many bisexuals think as they... and many do not attend pride and will not for they have many of the same beliefs and reasons both Gear and tenni have... it is a genuine concern for the entire lgbt.. and serpently for every gay and lesbian since we are accused of things which whether there is justice in them or not we must address.. I may get hot under the collar but I am not offended.. maybe about tenni's flippancy a day or two ago and what I perceive as a homophobic comment which is not to say that I believe him to be homophobic.. but in general no I'm not offended... if we are to progress as a movement we must discuss these issues and the concerns of any lesbian, gay, bi or transperson.. indeed of str8 peeps who may or may not support us.. but principally those who are gay or bi or lesbian or trans... for it is they in whose interests we are supposedly fighting:)..
darkeyes
You generally are a very tolerant and intelligent poster. I raised three issues in post 79 that are a need and benefit to bisexuals. Your thoughts?
I was reading the Toronto LGBTQ1 or whatever organization's mission and vision and a few of its programmes. To its benefit it does not lock bisexuals formally out and the vision statements refer to on going needs of the community. This community is so diverse with all the letters, an issue is can it effectively offer programmes that suit the bisexual (in particular but non LG may also question it).
What I found was a programme meeting for GLBTQ1(whatever) that are over 50. Statements refer
"The Older LGBT Program provides people with opportunities to make deeper connections with their peers by socializing and learning through special events, guest speakers and promoting related community resources. The Older LGBT Program offers a weekly Monday drop-in with programming for older LGBT people in our community. Everyone is invited, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation. Monday Drop-In times: 1:00pm to 4:00pm"
Realistically can bisexual peers include not just people in an age group but a sexual orientation and gender identity or do Bisexual men have different issues even from bisexual women..let alone a transwoman? The commonality is age for creating this group. The assumption is that there is sufficient connection and sexuality or gender issues do not create a problem. A married bisexual man who has just discovered his sexuality will identify with a trans man? They might have commonality and offer support but effectively?
To add to this the co ordinator is also the trans co ordinator. I know staffing issues make it necessary to multi task and the woman may be a wonderful and skilled person but in all honesty, I think that such groups end up serving no one effectively.
How many such organizations exist in Britain attempting to be all things to all sexualities and gender identity peeps that really are succeeding enough to march in a parade of pride? I'm sure that they try but married to a woman bisexual men are not going to be comfortable with someone(maybe a transwoman) telling him that he needs to come out of the closet like she did etc.
I am not telling anybody to leave..... I suggested they make their own site.... there is a difference.......Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeyes
its in line with what I have posted I have been doing outside of the site........ working with people to help create groups for people to meet, network, get help, support and advice..... there are a line I will not cross tho, I will not use bisexual.com to advertise the groups ( the reason for that, is actually because a lot of them have been here or heard about it and some of the members are people that have been run off or made to feel so unwelcome and judged in the site that some have left in tears... 17 bisexuals belong to one group I belong to and they have all been hounded from the site by the same person )
it would make no sense to me to advertise NZ LGBT groups in a site where there is very few NZ members and there is a strong anti LGBT sentiment.....so any advertising and sharing is done in sites where there is less of a negative reaction as that also means less of a platform for anti LGBT people to use for their own personal agenda.......
yes bisexual.com is a place for us to talk, discuss, share and debate, tho some people tend to view it as a place where they make the rules, not drew, therefore they decide who is wanted and welcome here or not, not drew and that has have a negative impact on the site..... hence why I have suggested that people create their own sites so they can make the rules around who is welcome and belongs and is bisexual enuf to have a opinion.....because the very people they want to be in this site, are the people that are leaving and going to other sites.... that is impacting on the bisexual site community and hurting the bisexual community as a whole........
so no, I am not saying that gearbox should leave at all..... thats another line I will not cross.... tho its been crossed with me a few times....... I help create groups, sites etc outside of this site and remain a member here..... I see no reason why that should apply any differently to gearbox or any other member........
now.... what have I been up to.......
helped set up 4 LGBT sites, one failed because it was immediately trolled and hit with a DDOS attack......
helped set up the LGBT hunters and trampers group ( NZ wide with 14 sub groups, is open to non LGBT as well, to gain firearms, hunting and tramping experience, also has some active search and rescue members in the groups, was responsible for a recent op where they found a lost tramper )
helped create the local LGBT business group ( shared ownership of a loan company to ensure that LGBT have equal access to funding and loans, 3 LGBT B&B, one caravan park and a bar amongst other ventures ) group later splintered over division with the bisexual part of the group because of issues where the bisexual community would not support the bisexual only nights at the bar, they wanted to be in with the LGT nights..... the patrons wishes were respected, that led to bitching over how there was lil offered for the bisexual people, the group splintered, it is now reforming as a LGBT group again with new bisexual partners, the bar was sold as a ongoing concern to a lesbian and gay group, the LGBT nights ended.......
helped create the local unified schools teen LGBT support group, it runs outside of the schools using a youth club premises, all inclusive, was removed from the school premises after issues with a gay adult member of the group, using the group as a meat market........
helped set up and operate the LGBT gamers groups ( now linked with 37 groups around the world with websites and links to major games and support from the game owners and devs.....)
helped set up and create funding for the local LGBT community to get people to pride parades, groups, festivals and events.....
helped set up 7 local LGBT and L, G, B groups.... most of the LGBT and B groups have failed.... banning 4 people ( 3 bisexuals and one gay ) from the groups has seen a change in the * life * of the groups increase, as a end was put to the constant anti gay and lesbian stances... most of the meetings are now in private homes, ( one bisexual was arrested for vandalism and destruction of property at a local function center so the LGBT have lost the use and access to it )
provided funding for the local indoor cricket, netball, laser strike, and paint ball LGBT team, they occasionally have a sexuality versus sexuality tournament with hetero teams.....
looking at a combined fetish / LGBT coffee group and judging support for it..... not much support or interest unless its run as a hook up group, most of the fetish people do not want a hook up group....
helped to set up, fund and advice with the top of the south LGBT network which helps with counseling, support and information and event sharing for the top of the south, also includes assistance with funding, traveling, accommodation and works in with the loan centre that the local LGBT business group originally brought .....and it also is the LGBT mental illness and disability and elderly network and support
all of them are run as LGBT and L, G, B and T groups, so they have the combined support of each other but also their own sub groups where there is enough people to make it viable...... and the response has been very positive and up lifting, some of the groups have been featured in NZ interest shows such as radio and tv shows ( both current affairs and community interests ) and featured in some NZ magazines..... some groups have done the same around the world....and are gaining interest from other interested groups......
yes there are the nay sayers that are trying to say that we are doing it all wrong or we are not addressing the right areas or concerns or not addressing bisexuals and their needs... OUR answer to that is... * there is a opening for YOU to something then since YOU see the need and YOU want something done about it, we are doing our own thing *...... and yes I do expect the same thing to happen in this thread..... and the answer will be the same..... YOU go deal with it because I do not live in your country, I do not watch your tv, I do not go to your groups and I do not involve myself in changing your countries laws........I am doing what I can in my country for the community around me that I live in...
...I heard a rumour, LDD...
Do not try and make out you are innocent either.
Somebody who shall remain nameless, approached the NZ LGBT HQ with a vision of connecting the halves of NZ together. This would have the Top of the South community acting as the Southern LGBT network Hub to create a New Zealand network with access to services and information, events and organizations across NZ for the LGBT.
The story goes that the NZ LGBT HQ decided YES, and that the Top of the South group would come under the umbrella of the NZ LGBT HQ. The HQ run the media, website and the LGBT HQ. LGBT visibility events such as the Mr Gay NZ, Queens on the Quay, Big gay out are used as a means to make the NZ LGBT visible. All of this happens in Auckland at the top of the north island.
Funding that the Top of the South received, would be sent to HQ, any government funding and resources would go to HQ, HQ would decide what Top of the South needed as funding and services. Surplus funding would be retained by HQ for other LGBT ventures
The Top of the South group is a pool of community and privately owned resources and assets, capable of providing funding for services and community groups with a community / families first approach. A real cash cow for HQ
LDD told them to go fuck themselves and shove their LGBT network up their ass.
So the story goes......
And what is this I hear about Overwatch attending a pride parade in NZ ?
ROFLMAO..... NO thats not what happened......
what did happen is that after a show on TV, we were contacted by the crew in auckland about joining them and becoming a extension of them..... I said I want to know more about what they have in mind..... because I had some very clear ideas that I wanted to see.... there was meetings and discussions, they laid out what they wanted which was
They handle any funding by government and official channels and decide where and when it is used......
We advertise thru their services such as the GNA, pink triangle, pink news etc etc....and we get discounted costs for the advertising...
requests for LGBT services and resources go thru them so they could ensure the needs of the LGBT community were meant.....
we set about setting up a cruise bar for nelson so that people have a place to hook up rather than rabbit island......
etc
my reaction was no fucking way......
they would not get control over funding because of the issues they had with their own funding and how they were using more many for the parades than they were using for LGBT community groups......what they did with their funding in auckland was up to them, but they would not use us as a way of getting extra money that we may never see......
we had our own advertising network, it cost us 1/3 of what it would cost us to advertise using their limited coverage sites and newspapers .... and I think the pink triangle went bankrupt.....
their * help * with LGBT services was not needed ( we had 3 independent LGBT counsellors and a psychologist ) etc, nelson lost their services because of the way auckland ran it.... and cut it off when they decided there was not a need for it.. and it was all run by the DHB
cruise bars ? nelson had 3, CHCH had a few, nelsons ones all went broke, chch lost a few then the earthquake fucked the rest..... we said we could provide trained bar staff but we would not do the cruise bar scene and as for rabbit island..... they have a short memory of how the locals threatened to start arresting the gay and bi guys that were having public sex out there and they wanted rabbit island ( a family pack ) turned into a gay cruising area....... there was no way in hell we were going to be involved in that place, specially with the police following up reports of gay and bi guys have public sex in front of kids......
I said that if the Top of the South wanted to unite with NZ LGBT, I was out...... we were never good enuf for them in the past and they were not offering us anything to further the support of the LGBT in my area.....most of the LGBT business group agreed, a lot of the LGBT groups agreed......
thats basically what happened.... it was not all me and my decision.....
Overwatch.... yeah they were at the pride parade 2014 and representing all NZ LGBT people......we supported them but as a low key aspect, no names mentioned type of thing.....
What you actually do is try to alienate me. Lets not pretend you are some Saintly moralistic avenger of the people.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDD
The anti-monog and anti-gun statements of yours was to incite the monog and American weapon owners to join you in your slurring of me. Also, your claims that 17 bisexuals have left the site in protest, was an attempt to incite Drew to think of me as a bad member here too.
This is a purely manipulative and deceptive manner you use to deal with ONE bisexual who doesn't see you as you wish. No surprise that the bisexuals who meet you in person, walk out on you.
So why is it that you don't dare address the issue of the thread about biphobia in the LGBT, yet are only too eager to slate bisexuals here?
BTW....due to your propaganda bollocks that makes me out to be some gay, lesbian & monogamist hater...
Last night I was with a biphobic, bi-erasing gay monogamist. There were no guns and wars going on. In fact there was chocs, nibbles, a bit of alcohol and a lovely evening of passion and lovemaking. That's not unusual.:rolleyes: Not quite the distorted image you'd like people to believe tho.
He was still a biphobic, bi-erasing monogamist when he left in the morn....but that's 'visibility' for you.
My response to ur poser.. I agree that probably, although that is as yet unproven, bisexuals are the most numerous of the queer sexualities.. probably, but we do not know for sure.. so what u suggest is that we remove power and authority from what u perceive is presently in error the dominant group, the gay and lesbian bloc, and give that power and authority within the lgbt to the bisexual.. a straight swap. wise move? Even if it was proven it would not be a wise move... for we see just how much resentment exists when there is perceived to be a power bloc of overwhelming power and representation... that resentment exists now even although no one knows for sure whether bisexual or gay are the larger grouping.. democracy, which is what we are discussing, within the lgbt is a far more complex issue than u seem to realise... where an overwhelmingly powerful grouping exists in any structure, democratic or otherwise the minority groupings will resent the power of the overwhelming majority.. the UK is a case in point. Arguably the break up of the Soviet Union was another... it would be an unwise move to simply reverse the relative position of gay and bisexual groups within the lgbt... a fairer and more equitable division of responsibility must be found which is responsive to the desires and aspirations of all sexualities and groups within the lgbt..Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni
I concur with ur second point although I would say that this should be done for all groupings within the lgbt.. there are attempts at it now but these are patchy and I will accept that the greatest success has been with the gay and lesbian grouping, even although I think these are 2 separate groupings for gender is something else that the lgbt has to take account of... and similarly in respect of ur 3rd point, the needs of all irrespective of sexuality has to be catered for, but there are good reasons why within the lgbt that a division of education and support for gay, lesbian, bisexual (man and woman) and trans(man and woman) can be justified allthough neither should be absolute.. there will always be a need for unified education and support structures..... because we must ensure that the unity of the lgbt is maintained.. it is hardly perfect now or we wouldn't have this discussion.. but however good or bad it is, we should always consider ways of improving it to meet the needs of all...
darkeyesQuote:
Originally Posted by jamieknyc
I think that Jamie has made a very valid point and disclosure about the inequality of treatment of bisexuals in New York LGBT organizations. I missed this. Did you also?
darkeyes
The issue about the largest group of non heterosexuals is fairly clear that it is bisexuals. Several reports, including the San Francisco Human Rights commission of Bi Invisibility state that bisexual numbers are far greater than gays. The exact number is unclear due to the difficulty in counting bisexuals but it is clear that they are the largest group.
The issue of control is at the root of the issues in the San Francisco report. It accused the GLBT organizations of not providing proper services to bisexuals based on the concept that bisexuals are the largest group. The reason why there has not been a greater outcry of injustice is due to the nature of bisexuals. Many just want to blend in with the hetero monosexuals. The issue of “being out” like gays to fight for your rights is not being done by bisexuals.
As far as gay invisibility, the LGBT have done a good job at fighting this. Therefore, I don’t understand your point about it being done for all sexualities. So far, gays in control of money in the GLBT hierarchy have not done much if anything about Bi Invisibility. It is not about equality. It is about injustice and failure of these organizations fighting against Bi Invisibility.
As far as point 3 about workshop and services, I provided an example from Toronto GLBT organization known as 519(Church st) about a programme for 50+ people. They place them in one group and do not consider that bisexuals (for one) have aging issues that are different from gays. This is again at the crux of criticism about the umbrella. It applies strategies based on gays and expects bisexuals (and trans) to fit in. In this case, trans may have a better chance since the co ordinator is the trans co ordinator for the organization. I wonder if there is such a thing as a bisexual co ordinator? (the largest group) I know that 519 under the bisexual network has come to terms that bisexual men do not attend meetings at the 519 and needed a meeting place separate from 519 if they were going to be helped accept their bisexuality. The peer counselling group meets several blocks away in a more neutral medical building. So, 519 may be failing 50+ bisexuals but reacted to the demand /need for bimen to meet elsewhere. (there are mixed bisexual groups meet and bi women are comfortable meeting at 519 which is seen by the public as a gay place.
gearbox...... you seriously need to chill....
the 17 people ? most of them have stated in the site who they have the issue with and its definately not you..... drew knows who the person is, some of them sent him a message telling him that they were leaving and why, others posted in threads saying the persons name and why......
unite the pro monogamy and american gun and weapon owners against you ? why ? they have had their say and moved on.... if they had anything more to say to you, they would say it....
as for who you want to have sex with.... dude, I really do not want to know and nor do I care..... I hope you enjoy..... but the saying, make love, not war, does come to mind
I expect you do that coz it's in your nature to resort to underhanded tactics when you just can't resolve anything civily. It's also obviously your nature to be dismissive of blame. Yet you wonder why you have such failings with LGBT people, especially the bisexuals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong
No gun totting American has left the site due to me. That's another tactic to deflect people having a good look at you. It's very silly!
As for my dealings with the biphobic gays, you either don't understand it, or you just don't want to. 'War' isn't what you'd have it be IMO.
Coz I don't judge a person for their opinions, but judge their opinions by their beliefs. We all have those, and we'd be daft to not explore them IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrugstoreCowboy
Wouldn't you prefer to know what causes a homophobic, biphobic, racist etc belief than just ignore those who cling to them?
Just coz you can't do that, doesn't mean that nobody can.;)Quote:
Making love? LOL! The guy was a hook up.
lol ok gearbox.... well its been fun....but the thought that you are going to keep posting your sex life as a example of how you deal with biphobic gay guys, has me rolling my eyes...... maybe it works for you and tenni I have no idea.... but I would rather not read about your sex life so I am going to leave you to go play bi phobia bedroom battles.... and yeah... I am hitting the ignore button ......
play safe, be safe......
As best I am able to tell, tenni.. what u intend is to replace what u believe to be one much too dominant group by another... nothing u have said tells me that u have thought any of it through since it seems to be by what u have said that u are unable to see that even established successful groups will require education and support, and it is all too possible the erasure and invisibility of other groups becomes a fact as bisexuals flex their muscles once they have become the dominant sexuality within the lgbt and activities of the other now lesser groupings wither on the vine....... I don't intend to say any more on this thread.. I just leave it with u to mull it over and consider how we safeguard the rights and and aspirations of what have become de facto lesser and less influential groups? As best I can tell what u want is the boot to be on the other foot assuming that the gay and lesbian communities have it on the opposite.:eek2:.
You are buggering off coz you don't have the balls to look at yourself, or the courage to be looked at....cartoon dog.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong
Good luck looking down on those with a sexlife. Very appropriate of you.lol
darkeyes
I see in part your point. Democratically, the majority of an LGBT organization should represent bisexuals. An often maximum for a Board of non profits is 12. That would mean that democratically there would be seven bisexuals, one gay man, one lesbian, one transgendered and two other categories whether different sexualities, lawyers, city representative etc.
This seems fair by democratic standards but life gets complicated. Would seven bisexuals step forward? It might be better to state that bisexuals would represent five to seven board members. The question is how close is any representation of bisexuals on GLBT organizations boards by the bylaws or constitution? Some have said that bylaws do not indicate such bylaws or any reference to mandatory representations of bisexuals on these boards. The representation of bisexuals on GLBT organization's boards was a reccommendation of the San Francisco report.
Nobody did.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrugstoreCowboy
........making love to them?Quote:
I did some in the past a few times but it is not my thing, and I don't like it. That's entirely different than 'You can't do that'.
Oh thanks.:rolleyes:Quote:
If you want to have meaningless casual sex or hook ups with all the biphobic gay men in the UK go for it. Nobody's stopping you if this is what you want to do for some strange reason.
Yes I know I don't. I have sex with them coz it's really nice.Quote:
You do not have to have sex with a bigot to find out why they are bigoted.
That's often true! There's always a cause tho. They are not 'born that way'......pun intended.lolQuote:
Plus people who are homophobic, racist, biphobic, etc. do not even realize this about themselves and will just deny it if you tell them about it.
Nope, I personally am not likely to change anybody biphobic etc. I have tried that until I'm blue in the face. It just doesn't register.:thumbu:Quote:
There's no sense in figuring out why these people are bigoted as it's their issue or problem and you personally are not going to change them.
Doesn't mean I should shun them, or not take an interest in the reasons for it tho. I think it's fascinating.YAY!
This is what you said - "Making love? LOL! The guy was a hook up.". And this was my reply - "Just coz you can't do that, doesn't mean that nobody can.;)"Quote:
Originally Posted by GiovanniPHL
That little two sentence convo was about you questioning making love to a hookup. Not ever having a hookup. Don't get a kindle!:tongue:
Quote:
However, there are some people who are into sleeping with the enemy (bigots), and therefore acting as though it's OK for them to be biphobic/bigoted, or excusing it just because they want to hook up. You're one of them.
OMFG I'm in West Side Story.:bigrin: Well it kinda worked for the jets & the Sharks......so yu neva know!lol
Well, Giovanni is a special kind of asshole! I just ignore him now!
Thanks Drew
newlynympho
He was a troll who has used other names such as drugstore cowboy, top fucker etc. Drew seems to have put him in cooling off and removed his posts . There is an unhealthy method to this or trolls like him. You are correct to try to ignore him if you recognize his post style. Gear clearly knew who he was and even called him by one of his other names....Gear's such a tease..like playing with fire eh Gear?
Here in New York there is a certain amount of bad blood between the LGBT Center and the two bisexual groups that use its facilities. Even at the front desk, they react with a certain amount of distaste when you ask for the bisexual events.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni