Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

Thanks Duckie

My whole point in that is certain situations, there are grey areas. As for my friend, yes his family and his wife's family know he has a special friend, and we all support him. He is a wonderful husband and will take care of his wife for as long as he can, he loves her very much. He is Superman.

Abd I knew I was dealing with someone who is very irrational as soon as he said, "the health benefits, while good are still not a necessity." :eek:

But all he can do is try to attack my debating skills? LOL!!! There is no rational debating with an illogical person. I just let him spew and others will judge him too, just like he has the need to judge other adults. And it worked.

Mission accomplished.

Good lord. What a bunch of long winded blowhards. Enamored with the keen geometric precision of their logic. Go jump in lake Michigan mand end this tedious thread.

What puzzles me about this thread is why everyone seems to think that you are destroying your SO's life by cheating (an arguemtn that does have some basis), but that the same people say "if he/she won't accept you having bisexual experiences, divorce them.' Aren't you f***ing up someone life a lot more by doing that? And why do none of the moralists on here seem to think that it is a bad thing to screw up someone's life by leaving them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamieknyc

What puzzles me about this thread is why everyone seems to think that you are destroying your SO's life by cheating (an arguemtn that does have some basis), but that the same people say "if he/she won't accept you having bisexual experiences, divorce them.' Aren't you f***ing up someone life a lot more by doing that? And why do none of the moralists on here seem to think that it is a bad thing to screw up someone's life by leaving them?

---

That is a gray area, Jamie, but the whole thing revolves around honesty. Honesty is the key. If the basis of your relationship with your significant other is based on sex, then why even get married in the first place?

Also important is what would any of us feel if we were being cheated on?

Put yourself in your partner's shoes before you decide to cheat. Cheating is the deepest act of dishonesty and betrayal that anyone could do to their s/o.
it leaves much longer lasting scars than just simply getting divorced.

Cheating has some extremely negative repercussions, particularly against the cheater, both in court, when the cheater's spouse divorces them as well as in the community (if the community is small enough).

If I could not be honest with my spouse about our relationship, then I know that there is a problem with our relationship.

What does not help is why some people who claim that they do not cheat and claim to have never been cheated on, would even recommend cheating in the first place.

It does make one wonder what they are really doing.

And the act of cheating is 100% selfish. If one is selfish, they have a possession, not a relationship. People are not possessions. And a functional relationship is not selfish. It is honest and non-judgemental between all parties involved.

As far as leaving someone, it screws up their life a lot less than cheating on them will. Leaving is not as monumental a betrayal as cheating is. Because leaving them releases them to find the relationship that they want to have; it does not keep them trapped in a destructive relationship that is not working in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamieknyc

What puzzles me about this thread is why everyone seems to think that you are destroying your SO's life by cheating (an arguemtn that does have some basis), but that the same people say "if he/she won't accept you having bisexual experiences, divorce them.' Aren't you f***ing up someone life a lot more by doing that? And why do none of the moralists on here seem to think that it is a bad thing to screw up someone's life by leaving them?

---

The honorable thing to do is to tell them, and then allow them the choice. To not allow them the choice is where the actual problem is. They have a right to choose not to be married to some one who is sleeping around, let alone sleeping with same sex partners.

I agree, just up and divorcing them seems worse than cheating. But not being honest is the actual problem. They have the right to know, and to choose. When you take away that right, that is when you've actually caused harm.

Pasa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

Thanks Duckie

My whole point in that is certain situations, there are grey areas. As for my friend, yes his family and his wife's family know he has a special friend, and we all support him. He is a wonderful husband and will take care of his wife for as long as he can, he loves her very much. He is Superman.

---

Be careful who you choose as friends. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, but Duck will continue to support you as long as you continue to kiss his ass.

And if this is your best effort to justify doing what is wrong, then I have already proven that your skills are lacking, as is your story and excuses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

Abd I knew I was dealing with someone who is very irrational as soon as he said, "the health benefits, while good are still not a necessity." :eek:

---

Irrational people fall back on what you have done in this post; confuse need with option, not understand that you nation's laws only apply in your nation, make straw man arguments and all of the other things that you use as "excuses", rather than giving realistic reasons that are not selfish and self-centered.

Have you looked up the difference between necessary and beneficial yet?

The two words are not interchangeable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

But all he can do is try to attack my debating skills? LOL!!!

---

Actually, if you actually read the posts, I called you out on your debating skills after I had proven your points to be wrong and selfish.

You cannot make a point if you cannot defend it properly. And you have failed miserably at defending your selfish and self-serving irresponsible points.

So the whole point of that little diatribe is to embarrass yourself. Good job, by the way.

Every "excuse" that you have come up with to do what you claim that you do not do is lame and weak. And there is a difference between an excuse to do what you know to be wrong and a legitimate reason to do it.

Perhaps you just don't know the difference between an excuse and a reason. Those two words are only periferaly related and almost never interchangeable.

One has to really wonder why you speak out so strongly in support of something that you claim that you do not do it, yourself? If you believe in it so strongly, and you are not lying about not doing it yourself, then why support it at all?

I am not the only one to catch that inconsistency in your argument. What gives you the authority to do something that you, yourself are claiming that you do not do and have implied that you haven't either done or been a victim of:
Unless you, in fact do it and are back-peddaling to cover your tracks. Duck has taught you well, but as you are discovering, the lies can only hold up so long before you get called on them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

There is no rational debating with an illogical person. I just let him spew and others will judge him too, just like he has the need to judge other adults. And it worked.

Mission accomplished.

---

Actually, the irrational one has been you. Since you were not paying attention to your "spew", as you call it, let us address that.

You have come up with excuses for cheating (not reasons), something that you have claimed that you do not do.

Why? To give "choices"? That is the piss poorest excuse.

I am fairly certain that people can figure out that "choice" (as you put it), without your half-thought help.

Particularly when your "advice" does not include the potential pitfalls. Pitfalls that they may not consider. You do not know these people and, no offense to everyone, but not everyone considers those options when they consider that most abhorrent "choice" of cheating. Maybe they have never considered it at all before.
You do not know. Particularly when they are first timers to this site or their bisexuality. New Bisexuals come here for answers not solutions that create more problems than they solve.

What they need to be reminded of, for reasons given in earlier posts, that there are other, less selfish options and that there are long term negative repercussions when they follow your poorly thought out "advice".

Advice that you, yourself, claim to not even follow.

Why do you not believe in your own advice enough to follow it yourself?

Native Americans have a saying; "Walk your talk." I walk my talk and you do not. It is as simple as that.

If you don't practice what you preach, then what gives you the appropriate level of authority to recommend it to others?

what would that authority be? Do as I say, not as I do? Look up the word "Hypocrite" when you get that new dictionary and take a good long look at yourself.

If you consider me to be irrational for that, then perhaps you need a better dictionary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl2

The honorable thing to do is to tell them, and then allow them the choice. To not allow them the choice is where the actual problem is. They have a right to choose not to be married to some one who is sleeping around, let alone sleeping with same sex partners.

I agree, just up and divorcing them seems worse than cheating. But not being honest is the actual problem. They have the right to know, and to choose. When you take away that right, that is when you've actually caused harm.

Pasa

---

Better said than I, Pasa.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DC_looking

Good lord. What a bunch of long winded blowhards. Enamored with the keen geometric precision of their logic. Go jump in lake Michigan mand end this tedious thread.

---

I'm trying, man, he just won't shut the fuck up. I think he's broken.:eek:

seeing this thread from a thrid person point of view really shows how useles it is to debate on these forums. why? because Falcon, Mikey could give a million actual reasons to justify cheating and but you'd say they were "excuses" because it is your personal oppinion. I agree with some of your points don't get me wrong, but I also agree with some of his. Not everyone is you Falcon....not everyone feels that being cheated on is such a horrable life shattering thing, some people can get over it quicker than others. Otherwise how would a marrage survive such a thing?

And you continually think of it from the victims point of view falcon...never the one faced with the choice.

For example my grandmother was married for 20 or 30 years when my grandfather was diagnosed with diabetes and it gave him ED and back the viagra wasn't nearlly as common as today. She was married to him for 20 more years until he died and never cheated on him.

Now you may say Good for her, way to stay faithful! But think of it from her end of the deal. she was in the prime of her life and sex was completely cut off. could you really deal with a sexless marrage for that long, with only your hand to be with? to cuddle up to and be intimate with? could you be reduced to only quick pecks every now and then? and sleeping on opposite sides of the bed?

Could your marrage really stand when one of the support collums has been taken away? I hate people who consider sex just a fun perk that goes along with the relationship. I feel their just as bad as the people who think sex has no meaning and are willing to date someone for just the sex.

Sex is VERY important to a relationship! maybe not "nessacery" as you put it, like my grandmother situation, but still very important.

the whole reason cheating hurts so bad is the exact reason sex is so important. sex creates intimacey which is one of the foundations of love, and to betray that by cheating yes is a horrable thing, but to for a person to live in a closeness, sexless, stale relationship, can be even worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FalconAngel

Be careful who you choose as friends. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, but Duck will continue to support you as long as you continue to kiss his ass.

---

where am I supporting mikey.... I am actually talking about his friend, and the ethics of that situation as opposed to my stance on cheating..... and the differences.....

if your head was not stuck up your own ass, you would have seen that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong

where am I supporting mikey.... I am actually talking about his friend, and the ethics of that situation as opposed to my stance on cheating..... and the differences.....

if your head was not stuck up your own ass, you would have seen that

---

Yeah that sort of confused me too...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rissababynta

Yeah that sort of confused me too...

---

me three but then Falcon oh so publicly declared he was putting Duckie on ignore so why would he be saying anything about posts he can't see?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crazy_cat_lady

the whole reason cheating hurts so bad is the exact reason sex is so important. sex creates intimacey which is one of the foundations of love, and to betray that by cheating yes is a horrable thing, but to for a person to live in a closeness, sexless, stale relationship, can be even worse.

---

Go ahead and cheat, then. But give your spouse the courtesy of telling them so they can make an informed decision. It is the right thing to do.

I will never say that sex out of the marriage bed is a bad thing. I will say, however, that sex out of the marriage bed without allowing your spouse the opportunity to decide if they can live with you cheating or not is where the actual betrayal is.

If my spouse had ED, I'd tell them that I was going to go elsewhere to meet my physical intimacy needs. If they wish to stay with me, fantastic. If they want to divorce me, that's their choice. But at least they have the choice.

Pasa

Well, now we are getting to a more clear and important discussion about this situation where one partner, usually a woman, withholds sex from the other partner or can not physically perform sexually. Legally, if one spouse withholds sex what are the consequences for the other spouse? Frequently, in a divorce situation that spouse who withholds sex to the point of the other spouse seeking sex outside the relation wins part of the other spouses share. Children in such marriages are often used as a weapon against the spouse who "cheated" and visitation becomes a nightmare. There are so many injustices that may lead a person not to disclose and when desire/need for same sex is added, there is such resistance to same sex activity that most in society support the partner who is hetero and shows little sympathy for the bisexual.

If the spouse does not acknowledge and accept a need for same sex sexual activity, that spouse may react by withholding sex or ask for a divorce. I can not understand why bisexuals do not begin to support other bisexuals in such situations? Perhaps bisexuals should fight to alter society's understanding and acceptance of bisexual needs? Those that do not acknowledge such needs but perceive them as desire are rigid. There is no coming to agreement with such draconian thinkers. Let's just agree to disagree and not turn this thread into an argument of needs versus desires(happened in the past)..move on.

Lordy Lordy, This stuff again.... It has actually gone off topic to the OP. But none the matter.

Discreet or cheat, what is the difference?

This day and age they have been entangled to mean "Don't let my secret out, but also begs for someone trusting and secretive.

They have become synonymous terms in forums in personal ads all over the web. Discreet is a ribbon and bowed word used to reflect " I'm married or attached and don't want them to find out."


Now mind you, if you use the concrete definitions, they mean nothing alike.

The word cheating causes shame and probably goes against someone's idea of themselves which is why some choose to use Discreet over saying "I'm a married/attached male/female seeking to cheat on my spouse/sig-other for (Enter reason here).

Now, outside of all that, I have always found it curious that those who do cheat, seek trust and disclosure. Same as with those who are knowing participants in the cheating.
That's sort of like Berney Madoff going "yeah I know I did that thing with all those people's money, those who had faith I was doing the right thing and helping them build their lives. But you can trust me with yours.. Honest :)".

Now I don't think cheating is always the wrong thing to do, but I also don't think that if it happened that it would END all relationships, if the other found out about it.. And honestly I think there is a misogynist tone towards female spouses that are left in the dark. Women have been dealing with spouses doing such since biblical days and Most tend to try and stay and work out the issues. Honestly, If your spouse loved you and felt you were worthy of love and Feels that your worth is greater than your flaws, He/she would stay and work it out.

A spouse that can no longer perform to your desired sexual needs, may in themselves feel they no longer provide for you and have their own guilt. I don't think cheating should be the first avenue taken, there are doctors to be seen, counselors that could assist. You have to take the journey before you see cheating as your only option..

Now why am I against cheating in many ways... Well..I became a Dominatrix since I stopped coming to this site. And as part of my training, one of the first things I learned was "What is the difference between a sub and a slave?" The difference is a sub has choice and a slave has none. When there is some sig-other left in the dark, with no choice, then they are forced into slavery. A prisoner in a cell with no visible bars. Now this is my own opinion I have developed. And one of the basis of a D/s relationship is trust and openness. Which is built and nurtured.

Now another reason is, There are those who leave their marriage for the one's that they cheat with. Those relationships rarely survive and usually end the same way they began. And when children are involved it can get confusing and hurtful for the children. Not knowing who's going to potentially be their next step mom/dad.

Maybe its the empathy I have for others that also make me against it. When normal human behavior, especially for a woman is "What did I do wrong, What could I have done differently, I am too fat, too ugly, too unworthy".. Yep the blame game. When a world is ultimately flipped upside down, and what was once safe no longer is, you look inward and break yourself down. Even though its not really all your fault.. Much like a rape victim.

A cheating spouse normally won't ever say " Its not you, its me!" It's most likely "You didn't do this for me, You weren't right for me, I love you, but I am not 'in love' with you anymore."

Most cheaters see the detriment to themselves and the facade they wish to maintain. Then the actual destruction of someone else's spirit. "If my spouse finds out he/she will take me to the cleaners, get half my house and take my kids away". But for the spouse that has been cheated on, they lose the life they worked to build, the years they put in.. Not only losing faith in whom they loved, but faith in any future love prospects and in themselves and in their ability to judge others.

I know I will be attacked by the "Right Fighters". And that's fine. But I have written in the past of how sometimes cheating is right thing to do. As in with the story of my Aunt that died of brain cancer, who months before she died had regressed to that of a 2-3 year old child. My Uncle found comfort in another woman's arms, and I find that was best to do, considering even though legally he still had "marriage rights" with my aunt, having sex with her would have been rape and almost like child rape.

Now, I saw in previous posts about grounds for divorce.. The one that is "Due to not having any sexual relations".. Is called Alienation of Affection. The marriage is no longer being continually consummated.


I agree that sex is a biological need, but one we can control.. similar to that of a diet or exercising. We choose the diet we want or the duration/intensity of the exercise. We as humans develop choice.

Compulsion is something that is not as controllable. Usually due to brain/emotional dysfunction. And in those affected with a compulsion (OCD for example). It doesn't matter what facts or figures that are stated. That person will always rationalize their compulsion to make sense to them.


This will always be a never ending Chicken/egg style argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

I'm trying, man, he just won't shut the fuck up. I think he's broken.:eek:

---

Actually...broken is not knowing the difference between right and wrong, I.E. defending wrong and attacking right.

That would actually be you.

Check all of your posts to see the proof of that.

Oh yeah, it turns out that you have been (possibly still are, but trying to cover it up) a cheater.

Here is your admittance of that.

http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showp...4&postcount=25

Now, we know why you are such a proponent of cheating and it gives us another look into your integrity-free nature.

One would think that you would be smart enough to know better, but you don't.

It is interesting what one finds through a few sources and some research.

It isn't a crime to be wrong, but trying to convince people that wrong is right and not understanding why no one of any integrity supports your position is just stupid.

See, I already know that you post your smart-assed lies and ignorant remarks in the forum because you will get a response.

And I have no tolerance for liars and fools, so yes, I will blast every stupid, amoral ignorant excuse that you come up with for trying to justify doing wrong where right is the better way to go.

If your weak-willed "friends" want to kiss your but and take your side just because they don't like me, I have to wonder just how valid is their support, or your already weak position, when they abandon what they know to be right just to "get back" at someone that they don't like.

That is piss poor support that will turn on you as quickly as they turned to you.

You don't want this to end because it will detract from the tiny little bit of power that you believe that it gives you. You are not a troll, but you sure act like you are not too far from being one.

If you really wanted to respond to the others without a response from me, then you would send a private message.
Now if I am wrong about that, then it just means that you are not bright enough to figure out how to send a private message. But that would be proof that I am right about you in another way, if that were the case.

I have power over you because you know that I am right and you are too weak to admit it, honestly.

If you really want this to end, then you would not be so snarky about me with your responses to others.
You would be man enough to address me directly, but you are not man enough for that, since all of your other attempts were addressed and arguments shot down and you have nothing left but to pursue the identical course that all of your "allies" have done: Your arguments failed, so behaving like a spoiled little child about it is the only choice left to you.

Man up and honestly and sincerely admit the truth. You will be amazed at how cathartic that feels.

But it also requires you to be paying attention and noticing things that others do not, which is why I don't lose when it is a subject that I know and others do not.

Umm...He came clean to his wife, Falcon. That's doing what he should do: admit, and give her the opportunity to either deal with it, or leave.

This shouldn't be a finger-pointing exercise.

Pasa

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

Discrete = not out in the open for all to see. Often applies to alternative lifestyles. Sometimes a betrayal, but not always

Cheat = behind the s/o in such a way as to not let them know what you are doing what you know you should not be doing. A betrayal of your relationship arrangement or marriage vows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FalconAngel

I have power over you because you know that I am right and you are too weak to admit it, honestly.

---

Dude, You're fucking cracked in the head.

Other's realized that I came clean to my wife, why couldn't you? I have threads all over this board on my comming out process in detail. No secrets at all. The guilt from my affair is what prompted me to come out to her and luckily we over came it. It made me a much better person.

If you were smart enough to put two and two together, you'd have figured out that. Maybe that's why I don't condemn and judge others, because I've been there and understand where they're comming from.

Falcon, you have no power over me or anyone else on this board. You don't even have power over your own sensibilities.

I repeat. I think you're broken. No need to pm that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FalconAngel

I have power over you because you know that I am right and you are too weak to admit it, honestly.

---

First let me say I am not saying this to be a bitch, I am just pointing out something that is a universal truth on message board such as these. NO ONE has POWER over ANYONE except Drew and even then he only has the power over the posting ability of that person.

The only thing we can do on this board is either report or ignore that is the only power anyone has.

Now back to the thread that won't end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littlerayofsunshine

I know I will be attacked by the "Right Fighters". And that's fine. But I have written in the past of how sometimes cheating is right thing to do. As in with the story of my Aunt that died of brain cancer, who months before she died had regressed to that of a 2-3 year old child. My Uncle found comfort in another woman's arms, and I find that was best to do, considering even though legally he still had "marriage rights" with my aunt, having sex with her would have been rape and almost like child rape.

---

yes, I agree.... under NZ law, the uncle could have been charged with spousal rape as his wife would have been deemed unable to give consent......
I am not sure how the laws apply in other countries there.....

there is a underlying issue there that mentally, the aunt was not the person who he married, she is wife in body, but her mind is far removed from the state at the point of marriage.....

again it challenges my stance against cheating, as its impossible for the uncle to express to or inform his wife of what is going on.....
that clearly removes the resolution or right of choice for the aunt.....

that leaves me only with the options of being judgmental over his * cheating * and labelling him as a dishonest person etc etc..... OR... accepting of the fact that circumstances had changed on a level that is far beyond normal resolution.....

while it would be easy to walk the moral high way.... and be a opinionated bigot full of my own self importance..... I perfer to be a hypocrite on my own stance against cheating....and accept that while some people may cheat.... there are times when being judgmental serves no purpose at all, and its best for one such as me, to admit that yes I do accept cheating happens and can well be understandable and acceptable.....

takes off my halo..... and joins the rest of the human race.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

Dude, You're fucking cracked in the head.

---

Problem with that statement is that I did not say that you did lie about that. I posed it as a possibility, an option or "choice" to pick from, based on existing evidence and your statements.
I never said it as a definitive statement.
And you have not really been doing anything to prove that possibility wrong.
And it still remains a possibility as long as you keep up the insulting spew of bullshit and insult.
Like I said before, you behave like the kid who lost a game and wants to blame the other kids for his loss instead of just admitting that he lost at the game.

Simple attention to details (Perhaps not so simple for you). Any trained observer can do it. And you make it even easier for me, and anyone that pays attention, to do.

As Sherlock Holmes would have said, "Once you eliminate all reasonable possibilities, then what is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth".

I noticed that, on your profile, your wife is not even included on it with you. If your wife is in this with you, as a couple, then why not include her on your profile?

I am absolutely certain that there are plenty of legitimate reasons (as opposed to excuses) for that. Plenty of folks here have them, but in your case, are they going to be true? we have only your word for that and the fact that you lied to your spouse, the person most trustworthy of all, shows that you are as likely to lie to everyone else, since you have lied to the person most trustworthy in your life.

You have lied to her before, so why not now, to the us,here? What is stopping you? Certainly not your moral compass.

Bad habits are very difficult to break, aren't they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

Other's realized that I came clean to my wife, why couldn't you?

---

You must have missed the part where I didn't need to "come clean" to my wife (more than a couple of posts ago), since I told her all about it when we were dating and she was, at that time, my girlfriend.

See, I caught you in another lie; a piss poor and easily disproven lie, at that.

I will tell you what I tell Creationists: "Facts do not change simply because they are inconvenient or contradictory to your beliefs."

Didn't you notice that picture and profile data, which included her basic info, on our profile, whiches gives you any indication that she is informed and included in what I do?

You miss too much and ignore everything that could possibly prove you wrong.

Like I said once before. If you want to argue with me, then have your facts straight and correct.
You fail miserably in that area. And it has been repeatedly proven.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

I have threads all over this board on my comming out process in detail. No secrets at all. The guilt from my affair is what prompted me to come out to her and luckily we over came it. It made me a much better person.

---

Good for you. Many of us do. Mostly in response to others who are new to being Bi and need advice about coming out. One, mabe more, of those threads even has my story about coming out to my wife.
But while it may have made you a better person, the fact that, even after that, you still endorse cheating as the primary option, you have a long way to go to be a much better person.

The real point is that you lied to her in the first place, so what about you should tell us that you are not lying now?
Your word?
Your word lost it's value when you lied in the first place.
Admitting that you lied is a good start, but the fact that you omit things that you think will put you in a bad light is still a lie of omission. And a lie of omission is also a lie.

If you want to be a much better person, then stop lying to yourself.

I have no secrets; either from my wife or my friends and social groups. I don't advertise it, but when asked, I answer honestly. My ex-wife even knows, and knew before we married as well.

I never needed guilt to come out to my wife, since I had the integrity to not lie and the trust in my relationship's strength to be honest in the first place.
My son, on the other hand does not know because, quite frankly, it is not his business to know and he has never asked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

If you were smart enough to put two and two together, you'd have figured out that.

---

Sorry, but I am far smarter than you (the reason that I argue with known data and not insults) and I pay attention to details, something that you do not do and have been called on in your arguments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

Maybe that's why I don't condemn and judge others, because I've been there and understand where they're comming from.

---

Yes, the "let he who is without sin" defense. It is human nature to, as you put it, "condemn and judge" others. it is just a cop out, to avoid admitting your own faults.

But wait.....you have condemned and judged me. Many times over and usually to avoid addressing issues that I have brought up.
Here's the latest one (From this same post that I am responding to, even):

"If you were smart enough to put two and two together, you'd have figured out that."

Sorry, but hypocrisy does not help your stance and that statement is a judgment, and, to be honest, making your statement that you don't judge (after than quote from you) is a lie as well.
Perhaps you just don't know what a judgment or condemnation is?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

Falcon, you have no power over me or anyone else on this board. You don't even have power over your own sensibilities.

I repeat. I think you're broken. No need to pm that.

---

More proof that you are wrong.

First of all, I really don't want power over anybody on this board, but you rose to defend a position that had no moral high ground at all and I rose to defend doing right over wrong. you lost before the battle was engaged and I easily moved the battlefield to ground of my choosing, knowing that you would follow.

That gave me power over you. If you were really honest, then this would not still be going on, here.

If you were really honest, then you would have admitted that you were defending what you knew to be wrong and this would be all behind us.

INSTEAD, you chose to continue to defend a position that was both amoral and unwinnable, on the grounds of amorality.

If you knew anything about predatory sentient species (of which man is only one, and the only one with technology), you would have known better than to do that and that is what gave me the power. I don't enjoin a fight that I cannot win.
But you chose to fight a fight that you knew, in your heart, that was a losing fight. Quite a foolish thing to do. Deep down, even your "friends" know that cheating is wrong, but they stood by you only because they don't like me.
So your friends can do nothing but support you and your same lies because, quite frankly, they can't add anything of value to use to defend the immorality of your position.

Even LDD, has to admit that cheating is wrong, and if he doesn't then perhaps Twyla (unless she has some form of arrangement with him) should consider a different boyfriend.

LDD, I know that you believe that cheating is wrong. Remember what I said earlier about the enemy of your enemy?

I had the power, since you and your ego gave it to me, since you supported an argument that cannot be one on the basis of right and wrong and you knew it.
You gave me the power to irritate you, because deep down, you knew that you were wrong but cannot control your ego's drive to win at all costs; to the point that you feel that you need to win, no matter how insulting, nonsensical, amoral or dishonest your arguments get.

Just like your claims that you are right and I am wrong.

I had the power to remain calm in the face of insults when opposing arguments or conceding the point would have served you infinitely better (your "friends" should have warned you about that mistake, since they did the same thing with me, in one case, over and over again until the only responses were insults and irrationality).

You have, thus far, demonstrated that you;

have little to no moral compass,

that you back-peddle when you start to lose an argument,

that you do not pay attention to what you are responding,

that you do not know the definitions of some of the simplest and most basic words used in regards to this subject,

that you cannot admit that you are wrong when you know it,

that you choose your allies poorly (as do they).

If you believe that you have the power to end this, then stop responding, stop with the snide and ignorant remarks about me, because every time that you say something stupid about cheating, I will shut the point down with facts, again.

You desperately need the attention of thinking that you are a "big man". You are not. the fact that you fight what you know is a losing battle proves that. There comes a point in every battle where the only choices are surrender or withdraw. That point was passed, by you, quite a while ago.

You seem to be under the impression that this is personal for me.

It honestly is not. My issues with my ex have long since been over. if it hadn't, then I could not have the relationship with my wife, that I have had since before we were married.
But I will defend right over wrong. It is personal for you, but you cannot be the bigger man until you stop defending the moral low ground; something that you appear to not yet be willing to do.

As they say in all of the mafia films, "nothing personal. It's just business".

You have been defending what you know to be wrong; namely cheating. Concede, honestly and sincerely, that you are wrong for defending it and this can all end.

So man up and do what is right. Only that will give you your power back.

No need to pm that, either. It is spread through this thread for all to see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FalconAngel

Even LDD, has to admit that cheating is wrong, and if he doesn't then perhaps Twyla (unless she has some form of arrangement with him) should consider a different boyfriend.

LDD, I know that you believe that cheating is wrong. Remember what I said earlier about the enemy of your enemy?

---

I do not have to admit anything.... I am free to speak or say nothing as I see fit...... twyla has the freedom to come and go as she sees fit......

my partner can satisfy my needs and desires and that gives her a edge over people like you that can not be satisfied by your wife.... as twyla knows that i will not stray from her bed......

thats a gift, a blessing and tells the world just how special twyla is and how much of a woman she is as a person...... the fact that twyla has chosen me to stand beside her, is a blessing far beyond anything I could wish for.....

so falcon, go and wander the bed of mortal men as you seek satisfaction at the hands of others..... I am blessed far beyond your wildest dreams

may you burn elder wood to warm your hearth

"First of all, I really don't want power over anybody on this board, but you rose to defend a position that had no moral high ground at all and I rose to defend doing right over wrong. you lost before the battle was engaged and I easily moved the battlefield to ground of my choosing, knowing that you would follow.

That gave me power over you. If you were really honest, then this would not still be going on, here."

What? I don't think that you realize what your words indicate about you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong

may you burn elder wood to warm your hearth

---

Ok I gotta admit that I did LOL at this.

Ok so you know how when Tom Cruise started getting weird...and we all started wondering what was going on with him...then after his appearance on Oprah we finally said to ourselves "yeah...I think he may have just cracked."

Well I hate to say it but I think that Falcon is like Tom and this thread is like Oprah's couch...

Discreet-a human being who knows how to use the word appropriately as opposed to "discrete". They also know not to suck cock at mid day at the intersection of the two main streets of their community :bigrin:


Cheat v. -to sexually go outside of a relationship (regardless of numbers in the relationship) for sexual release due to being a person who is sexually dissatisfied with their relationship. The other person(s) do not know about their actions. They find the delemna impossible to resolve other than this act for a wide variety of reasons because they need sexual release, affection, etc. that is unobtainable from the other person. They do not wish to leave their relationship for a wide variety of reasons. Making a moral judgement about their actions has nothing to do with the meaning. That happens in room 402 between 12:00 and 12:01. Sorry, but I'm too discreet to tell you whether it is am or pm. If you are able to find which building and which community, we will give you the judge gavel and a black garment to judge and declare the morality of the case.....(not a dress but a pretty black robe that hides your figure quite well :)

Discreet adj

Discreet is an adjective connected with the virtues of prudence, circumspection, modesty, and self-restraint. Here are two examples:

The heiress was anything but a show-off, dressing in a discreet manner and making no ostentatious purchases.

Enrico felt justified in confiding in Dr. Wiggins, who was celebrated not only for her insights into people’s lives and problems, but also for being entirely discreet.

Discreet came into English through Old French. Its roots are in the Latin past participle of the word discernere, meaning “to discern” or “to separate.” Discreet covers a variety of meanings related to the “discern” element of the Latin word’s meaning. It is pronounced /dih SKREET/.

Discrete adj

Discrete is an adjective that is used to designate the separateness of something from other things or to identify a particular whole as having distinct, separate-or non-continuous- parts. It also has a particular mathematical meaning in describing a set of values. An example of the standard use is:

The driving exam has several discrete, non-overlapping sections, all of which must be passed in order for you to be awarded a license, Mr. Mantigua.

Like discreet, discrete came into English through Old French and has its origins in the past participle of the Latin discernere, meaning both “to separate” and “to discern.” Discrete covers a variety of meanings related to the “separate” element of the Latin word’s meaning.

You can see now that each of the words in the pair discreet/discrete develops one of the two main meanings of the Latin root from which they both come. The branching of this one Latin word into two English words clarifies why they are so very similar and difficult to distinguish.

Distinguishing Discreet and Discrete

One way to recall the difference between discrete and discreet is to use this mnemonic:

Discrete is about separating into distinct parts: notice how the two e’s are separated. Discreet, on the other hand, is about keeping information contained and under wraps: notice how the e’s are closed up within the boundaries of the word. Keeping this in mind may help you remember which of these words is which.

disclaimer 1: Some of us who have been cheated on, do not think like Falcon.

disclaimer 2: All of the meanings above have been "tongue in cheek" couched in terms of a relationship between two, three or more human beings whether they are narrow minded, rigid thinking, sexually bigotted,hypocritcal people who lack tolerance or not. :eek: This includes men who like to dress in "celtic costumes ( a manly form of a woman's skirt..not cross dressing at all. So don't say that it is ;)" etc., practice some form of witchcraft regardless of what term that they use, suck cock and like to bring another person into their relationship only if their spouse agrees. They rationalize that they are moral and others are not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hot_fun_summertime

For those who are cool with cheating and are defending cheating would you be fine with your wife, husband, or s.o. who you are in a monogamous relationship with cheating on you?

---

I don't think I'd mind. The only problem is, she's pretty religious and thinks sex should only be between two people so, if she did decide to fool around, it would be because she wanted to leave me. I've never thought of leaving her, whether it be for a guy or girl so that would seem unfair to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hot_fun_summertime

For those who are cool with cheating and are defending cheating would you be fine with your wife, husband, or s.o. who you are in a monogamous relationship with cheating on you?

---

Now there's the key, are they in a monogamous relationship. That makes the difference in the perceptions. By virtue of a monogamous relationship you are with ONE partner. Those that choose to have an open relationship and communicate with their partner, in my opinion are not cheating. But the ones who have to hide from their partner and sneak around to fulfill whatever needs, not just physical but emotional are cheating.

The same way that there are different levels of cheating. And sometimes the emotional betrayal is much worse and cuts so much deeper than any physical act.

Once the trust is gone in a relationship, it takes a lot of time and open communication to build it back up. I applaud Mikey for realizing what he was doing and communicating clearly to his wife. She had the choice to leave the marriage or just turn a blind eye. She did the unexpected, she not only understood but she actually interacts with his male partner as a friend.

I understand open relationships, they are just not for me. But the very word "open" means by that you are open to your partner about what you need to be complete. They have the choice to stay or go.

So good question, it's been asked often on here of the people who go outside relationships for sex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hot_fun_summertime

For those who are cool with cheating and are defending cheating would you be fine with your wife, husband, or s.o. who you are in a monogamous relationship with cheating on you?

---

Cool with cheating?
defending cheating?

The two above statements are your interpretation of what is being posted. I'm not sure as I skip over some of the comments from the narrow minded primary relationship thinkers but I don't know if anyone has actually used that language? I may be wrong.

Some of us are capable of not being so closed minded as to see the greys that some narrow minded primary relationship thinkers who function at lower levels of moral development are not able to understand or accept.

Cool may be more positively replaced with "compassion"
Defending may be more positively replaced with "comprehending"

I do agree that being cheated on does hurt a lot. I don't believe that one side only is responsible though. It wasn't in my situation. I ignored the facts and only really saw them after the cheating. I chose to ignore the facts because I thought that I was different and special...pfft..lol

here is a curve ball that I was thinking about last night

we can base cheating around doing what your partner doesn't know about ....so.... if you are in a relationship where you have permission to take other lovers... but with the criteria that there is a DADT policy over your activities.... then if you are not telling your partner who you are sleeping with..... is it in fact cheating.....

in my eyes it actually causes conflict with a lot of the anti cheating arguments as the definition of cheating is a person sleeping with other people that their partner doesn't know about....
and in this case, while there is permission, the partner STILL doesn't know who you are sleeping with, or if you are sleeping with other people

hi wnna join!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits

me three but then Falcon oh so publicly declared he was putting Duckie on ignore so why would he be saying anything about posts he can't see?

---

Because duck will pick the side that is against me, figuring that the enemy of his enemy is actually his friend.
The US is still learning that lesson with Israel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits

Now there's the key, are they in a monogamous relationship. That makes the difference in the perceptions. By virtue of a monogamous relationship you are with ONE partner. Those that choose to have an open relationship and communicate with their partner, in my opinion are not cheating. But the ones who have to hide from their partner and sneak around to fulfill whatever needs, not just physical but emotional are cheating.

The same way that there are different levels of cheating. And sometimes the emotional betrayal is much worse and cuts so much deeper than any physical act.

Once the trust is gone in a relationship, it takes a lot of time and open communication to build it back up. I applaud Mikey for realizing what he was doing and communicating clearly to his wife. She had the choice to leave the marriage or just turn a blind eye. She did the unexpected, she not only understood but she actually interacts with his male partner as a friend.

I understand open relationships, they are just not for me. But the very word "open" means by that you are open to your partner about what you need to be complete. They have the choice to stay or go.

So good question, it's been asked often on here of the people who go outside relationships for sex.

---

Exactly. Cheaters only consider themselves and put their wants above their partner. That is not a relationship, it is possession, which I said before.

They rarely, if ever consider what the consequences are to their partner and relationship.

They don't stop to think about how they would like it done to them. Which is why I have pointed out that reminding those who ask for advice to suggest that they cheat, Needs to include the warning about the consequences for when, not if, one gets caught.

Not pointing all of those negatives out is just plain irresponsible.

And yet, Falcon, in your misguided attempt to go after Duck you made very irresponsible remarks about his relationship with me. I don't appreciate it and yeah this is picking a fight. You want to fight with me, bring it on. I have not a damned thing to lose, and apparently neither do you, since you have lost the respect of most everyone here at this point. You publicly flame people, call them liars and hide behind what you don't even believe in yourself. But I will warn you, be careful when you play with fire, cause I AM what you pretend to be. I walk with my Goddess, do you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FalconAngel

Because duck will pick the side that is against me, figuring that the enemy of his enemy is actually his friend.
The US is still learning that lesson with Israel.

---

I have a general anti cheating stance, tho I make allowances as cheating is not all black and white......

you have a anti cheating stance stance that requires everything to be black and white......

the side that separates us,.... is I do not need to use personal attacks such as your remarks about mikey...... remarks that are uncalled for, and actually incorrect....... mikey is out to his wife and have been for a while.... he was not refering to you and your wife.....

you failed to realise that and continued to launch a personal attack on mikey and his morals and ethics in your vain attempt to support your own misguided desire to play the higher moral ground and portray yourself as a upstanding member of society....

honestly... a good number of the forum, have the opinion that the only way you could be upstanding.... is with viagra

there is a old saying....

tis a foolish man that walks the high ground, for while they believe they look down on others, in truth their heads are in the clouds.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FalconAngel

If you believe that you have the power to end this, then stop responding, stop with the snide and ignorant remarks about me, because every time that you say something stupid about cheating, I will shut the point down with facts, again.

---

I'm still waiting to see ANY facts from you dude. So I'll give you the power to go look some up. :tongue:

hot_for_summertime
"I'm out and not interested in closeted or DL men who are going to cheat on their GF or wife and expect me to be their secret on the side. "

I think that the above statement in your profile explains your position. Such statements in a profile suggest a story about what has happened to you in your past to bring you to this position.

We may want to agree to disagree. I do not believe that I used the words "cool" or "defending" in connnection with cheating. You see me as defending cheating and yet I have not said that I defend it. I'm not for cheating but I am able to understand that it does happen. I make no judgements as to who is to blame when it does. I agree that when someone does something in a relationship that the other person may not be happy with that. There are a lot of emotions that may follow whether it is cheating or other deeds. I have been cheated on in a relationship and suspect that you have as well?

My morals are jaded in your perspective. Ok. We have different morals. If you suck cock, others will condemn you and your morals as well. They will state that you have no values or morals...and worse.

Now, about your strong desire to be out. Are you out enough to suck cock on the two major intersections of your community..say at noon? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hot_fun_summertime

I meant what I asked. Don't add stuff in that I did not write and pretend to yourself that I wrote what you wanted to read or try to twist my writing around to suit your own argument and agenda for lying and cheating.

I've read this thread and the only person who seems to be defending cheating or making up excuses for cheating is you Tenni.

If you want to cheat on a partner go right ahead and do it. Just be honest and tell your partner first that you're going to cheat on them since it's only fair since you're jaded, have no morals, and do not communicate well with partners to break up with them first if you want to fuck someone else.

I have no sympathy or compassion for people who cheat. Is it really that hard to understand? Most people even if they are in open relationships like Falcon is would not be OK with a partner lying and cheating on them or with lying and cheating to their partner.

This has nothing to do with being close minded or being in your words a "narrow minded primary relationship thinker who function at lower levels of moral development". Since you are so blindly for cheating and lying you yourself are a narrow minded thinker who functions at lower levels of moral development since you have no values or morals.

Even if I were in an open relationship and whoever I was with cheated or did something we did not agree upon I still would not be happy or feel like they somehow had a right or an excuse to do this.

Sometimes the reasons for cheating are one sided such as the person being greedy or not being able to communicate with their partner and end the relationship since they no longer want to be faithful like both people have agreed upon.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pasadenacpl2

Go ahead and cheat, then. But give your spouse the courtesy of telling them so they can make an informed decision. It is the right thing to do.

I will never say that sex out of the marriage bed is a bad thing. I will say, however, that sex out of the marriage bed without allowing your spouse the opportunity to decide if they can live with you cheating or not is where the actual betrayal is.

If my spouse had ED, I'd tell them that I was going to go elsewhere to meet my physical intimacy needs. If they wish to stay with me, fantastic. If they want to divorce me, that's their choice. But at least they have the choice.

Pasa

---

And I agree pasa. I wasnt saying to cheat and not tell them and give them a choice in the matter. what I was trying to do was make Falcon look at the potential cheaters point of view and what he'd do in that situation, because according to him either stay in a sexless intamacy starved marrage or devorce them on the spot. no choice for the spouce either way. because honesty forms trust which is another foundation of love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikey3000

I'm still waiting to see ANY facts from you dude. So I'll give you the power to go look some up. :tongue:

---

Why do you insist on being a horses ass?

The facts are there and you must have some experience with that, even though you are lying about them.

Someone smart would have learned by now, but I guess that isn't you.

I would call you a tool, but I respect tools more than you.

And at least I have a moral compass to help guide my actions. You, on the other hand, talk like you have the same moral compass of a lawyer (moral compass surgically removed).

No offense to the Lawyers out there that were smart enough to hang on to their moral compasses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TwylaTwobits

And yet, Falcon, in your misguided attempt to go after Duck you made very irresponsible remarks about his relationship with me. I don't appreciate it and yeah this is picking a fight. You want to fight with me, bring it on. I have not a damned thing to lose, and apparently neither do you, since you have lost the respect of most everyone here at this point. You publicly flame people, call them liars and hide behind what you don't even believe in yourself. But I will warn you, be careful when you play with fire, cause I AM what you pretend to be. I walk with my Goddess, do you?

---

Sorry, but you have been telling everyone that you are LDD's girlfriend.

Is that an inaccurate statement?
I mean, you have said it more than once and even made specific mention of it for a thread that you started on that very subject.

Whatever agreement that you two have is not anyone's business, but if you both know that the other has approval to mess around behind your back on their own, then that is not the same as cheating, since, in that case, you are both aware of and approve.

Cheating is sneaking around and violating one's relationship agreement (or marriage vows).