Originally Posted by
Canticle
''Canticle
Yes, I am serious. I would like to be respectful of your spiritual perspective. In fact, my own perspective is not Christian but nor is it Wicca or your own belief from what I read here.''
I need to correct you here.....my own belief....I am a Christian Spiritualist. My church is a Christian Spiritualist church. I have moved on slightly in my spiritual beliefs, but as this has been a life long journey, with me now into the 41st year of being a Christian, I still identify, very much, as being basically Christian.
However, my Christian belief has always been a very personal one...not always in favour with other, so called Christians. Like I have never belonged to a church...not until the church I discovered in 2002. I didn't stay because of the belefs....but because of the people.
I've never believed in a virgin birth, or that a Jesus was the Son of God, or that Judas betrayed him. In fact in the last 3-4 years, with my spiritual growth, I have come to realise that I have never believed in a creator God and I think that if there was a man called Jesus...he died on the cross.
What for me, makes me a Christian...is that I believe in the purported words that man preached, but I believe that those word have also been preached by many other men/women...either of religion....or not.
I could go on being a Christian without the Spiritualism....I could not be a Spiritualist without my Christian beliefs. Hope that makes sense.
''After reflecting upon what I posted, I would like to clarify. I was about to post a topic that was not directly related to bisexuality and realized that I had better put my posts where my thoughts are...:eek: I'm not sure where the boundaries are but sensitivity to others beliefs is a good idea for all of us. I include myself. Too much political and religious chatter may divide us or even repulse some posters. I do love a good discussion on these topics though. I'm torn. :(''
There should be no boundaries. If there is no discussion, we do not communicate with, or learn about, the people and teachings of other belief systems. If there is no communication, there is stagnation and ignorance. Where there is stagnation and ignorance, there grows hatred and persecution happens. Where there is hatred and persecution, there is a numbing of the true spiritual growth, which could be achieved. Without that spiritual growth, humankind suffers.
''I am genuinely quite surprised at how often Wicca, Pagan and Spiritualism is posted on this site. It does give me the impression that many bisexuals are really into these belief structures if I didn't know otherwise. I realize that for some reason or other certain vocal posters are inclined to bring this perspective up. I have never seen so much written about Wicca, Pagan, Spiritualism posted on any other site dealing with sexuality or generally. There is also a certain amount of posting about Christian extremists and bigotry toward GLBT. That make much more sense to me than to read these other spiritual aspect coming up as frequently as they do.''
I would ask you. What makes a belief Pagan? To the Romans, Christianity and any other belief system was Pagan. I have heard 21st century creationist Christians, refer to the Roman Catholic Church, as pagan. Does mainstream. non-creationist Christiaity call Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism etc etc, pagan? I have never heard the other religions called pagan and yet, if the Christian church thinks it is the way, the truth and the light, surely, they should be calling other religions pagan.
As far as I am concerned there is no such thing as Pagan. The beliefs of Native Americans, the old ''pagan religions''....any belief system which venerates the earth and all on and in it, can never be thought of as pagan. I would not call the beliefs of the Greeks and Romans, pagan. There are spiritual things to be found, in most religion. We are of Spirit. The Spirit moves within us and makes us who we are.
''I think that the poems are interesting on this thread. I think that discussing death is an interesting topic. I think that concepts about an after life may be inevitable to come up on this topic. I was just thinking as I read your post about the more scientific explanation about death and the concept of going to an after life and then returning to this world. I have heard it explained scientifically as the dying of the brain. There is an area of the brain that will hallucinate if cut off from oxygen as the brain is shutting down that causes this concept of travelling through a tunnel, seeing the dead, etc. I also was thinking about what determines a spiritual dream like experience from a delusional hallucination? I suspect that it might involve endangerment to self or others. I'm inclined to think that it is a fine line but that might be an intetesting thread not connected to bisexuality..or maybe better for me to research on my own..;)''
I do not believe in the death of the energy, which some call the soul and I call spirit. I believe that it moves on, to another state. My late mother, once asked me to describe what I thought the Spirit World (paradise, heaven...call it what you will), was like.
I could only describe what I believe, in this way. In the series, Star Trek -Deep Space 9, there was a character, a shape shifter called, Odo. His natural state was liquid. When his home planet was eventually found, he went down to the surface. In front of him was a shimmering lake. It was not a lake. It was his people...all in liquid form, separate and yet one whole.
This was my explanation to her, a highly intelligent woman and she got what what I meant. I believe that what I call the universal essence...the life force, which joins us all....is very much like this, too.
Therefore, for me, death of the body is not the same, as the energy, spirit, soul, moving on. I have read all about the things you mention and also watched documentaries upon the subject. I don't know about near death experiences. I am sceptical myself. I guess that if I had had one, I would think differently.
Any Spiritual experience, which I have had, has been when I was wide awake, and perfectly in control of my senses. I've never hallucinated.....I think that you need certain things to cause hallucination and I neither imbibe, or swallow any. I know people who do see spirit, externally and they too, are not hallucinating. I don't see anything. Sorry to disappoint you there.
However, my son and daughter do. They are not likely to imbibe or take into their bodies anything, to cause halluciations, either. Many people see things. Most don't talk about it, for fear of ridicule. Thankfully, my son and daughter, are not afraid to say that they have seen things. However, being normal and perfectly sane young people, they do not dwell upon such matters and get on with what they are supposed to do...and that is living their lives.
If things are seen, heard, experienced in anyway, due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, illness, an injury to the brain, I would not call that a true experience. For me, things have to be experienced in the cold light of day.
Someone might try to say that the epilepsy I have and the drugs I require to control it, will cause any experience I may have witnessed or felt. Sadly, they would be very wrong. Now if I have back ache and take some codeine and paracetamol, I will get sleepy and maybe have a vivid dream...but anything spiritual.....the hell it will be....lol.
''Now, I also had a good friend who experienced near death. He said that he floated above his body and saw the doctors and his body. He was brought back. I actually have one of his paintings on this after death experience. I would no more ignore his experience than I ignore what science states about death and the hallucinations as the brain is dying. I think that his explanation of his near death experience is much more romantic...lol''
Near death experience, I have commented on. Out of body experience...I don't know. I have a friend...very much alive...who claims to have had one. Maybe she did.....I don't know.
''As to whether Wicca, Christianity etc. form the basis of philosophy, I think that I would be inclined to write that it plays a role in some areas such as Metaphysics and Religion but I think that the word philosophy is far wider than any one religiion or spiritual belief.''
I would agree and very awkwardly and stubbornly say...''Well of course it would.''....lol
''If Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language, then it is wider than the parameters that you mention.''
Well of course it is. However, I was talking about a certain mindset, more than the wider field of play.
''Socrates was not a Christian but was key to the foundation of western philosophy.''
There is no argument there. He was alao a Pagan! :bigrin:
''Ethics, Aesthetics, Logic, Epistemology and several others are all part of philosophy.''
Filling ones head with these is all very well, but if one does not lead a life where one treats others humans, with respect and love, the study of all that jazz means nothing. A member of a rain forest tribe, is just as wise and understanding of the world he lives in and the stars in the sky and the hearts of other humans, as any philosopher. Probably, more so.
''Karl Marx may be seen as a philosopher and Communism may also be argued as a philosophy by some. It may also be argued as a political system...so keep yer pants on about that argument...lol. Communism rejects spirituality and religion.''
Maybe it can...and maybe it can't. It can also be seen as a good excuse for exerting control over a people......a State Religion. Ultimately Communism fails....probably because it does deny spirituality. I did read, that before he died, Karl Marx had come to the conclusion, that he had got it all very wrong.
You can keeps the pants Tenni...lol....I don't wear trousers....lol....and for shame....guess what.....I'm a Socialist!
