I did it. I came out to my wife...

[danreidbarmi]

Sitting in the heat of a late August afternoon, on the edge of an Illinois lake, halfway home from saying goodbye to our youngest child (entering college), I finally had my long-anticipated moment of absolute truth with my wife. While I do not expect kudos (nor should I) for doing the only right thing (especially since my confession was years late) I do feel a sense of relief that I was finally able to gin up the courage and reveal that the man she married is bisexual.

She and I love each other. We are great friends. But, we don't want the same things from our marriage (and it would be unrealistic for me to expect that she would want to stay married while her husband continues to have sex with other people, regardless of their gender). The first thing she desperately needs is someone to talk to. In her pain and confusion, her assessment was that we will more than likely have to make plans to split up. That fills me with sorrow and regret. She said it may be six months from now, or two years from now. In the meantime, she just wants to pretend that nothing at all has changed. I appreciate her candor, and, although I do not want our marriage to end, my strongest desire is to live the rest of my life openly and honestly -- so, if that is her ultimate decision, I will have to face this reality.

Now, I'm finally out to my wife. There is an immense load off my shoulders. I can breath again. It definitely won't be easy from here, but I'm ready to face whatever future awaits. In the meantime, I hear her laughing from the great room and I'm off to watch the Emmys with my dear, best friend. While in some ways it's a whole new world, in some other, very important ways it remains the same.

[by~his~side]

dearest dan,
such a mixed bag of emotions you must be feeling. i'm just reading as an outsider and i'm feeling more than i can express.
'and the truth shall set you free'......how understated that statement is. whatever your future holds for you and for your wife, i wish you a genuine sense of self and a life that is fulfulling and true.
i've sent you my email address in a private message. i'd be more than happy to lend an ear and words of support to your wife if she should feel she wants to contact me.
it took alot for you to step up like you did. you did what you felt you needed to do and i'm proud of you. i wish you only the best....

~D~

[bicurcple]

Just read your post and congratulations....not only for coming out to your wife but for being ready to accept what happens. Although I have not had any expereinces yet my wife knows and supports my desires and she too would like to experience the same sex but we have agreed we will only do it together, but I could not imagine if it had not gone that way. I love her so much and would be mortified if we were thinking of splitting up. We wish you the best of luck and success in whatever happens.

[piercedcurious]

I came out too about a year ago and since then my wife and I tried out "sharing" and so far it hasn't worked out, nor has it ended our marriage. All I'm saying is it doesn't have to end. Being attracted to both sexes doesn't mean you have to act on those attractions. Good luck and I hope for the best for both of you.

[slipnslide]

I came out too about a year ago and since then my wife and I tried out "sharing" and so far it hasn't worked out, nor has it ended our marriage. All I'm saying is it doesn't have to end. Being attracted to both sexes doesn't mean you have to act on those attractions. Good luck and I hope for the best for both of you.

Your point is something that I've been curious about in others. I know that bisexuality means different things to different people so the idea that it means one needs to have sex with both is foreign to me.

[Not2str8]

Dan,
I went through that same agonizing decision several years ago now. The weight of keeping my secret and hiding it got heavier each day until I could no longer carry it. I came out to my wife with the realization that I very probably just ended my marriage. As with your wife, there was a lot of pain and confusion. She told me that our bond was broken, and that we would likely split up. Like any spouse who gets this particular bomb dropped on them, her first reaction was to feel threatened. She later told me that what she really feared was that my bisexuality was a stepping stone towards being gay; that she felt rejected and incapable of giving me what I needed. We agreed to take things one day at a time, and frankly the next year was pretty chilly. But in that year, she also saw that I was the same person she fell in love with and became best friends with. She began to see that my bisexuality was just another facet of my being, and that it need not be a threat to her. A little more than a year after I came out to her, one day she told me how my revelation forced her to examine her own life and attitudes and to face some long suppressed issues of her own. She credits me for forcing her to look inward and see that she has some bisexual leanings too. Fast forward to today (8 years later) ; our bond is stronger than it ever was. We encourage each other to explore and to embrace all parts of who and what we are. I tell you this because what your wife thinks and believes on the day you come out, may well change with the passing of time. She may come to realize that what you've built together is worth preserving and building on. She needs some time to realize that what you've told her doesn't mean you're pulling away from her, and that you're the same guy you've always been.
I hope your experience goes as well as mine. Like you, I knew the risk I was taking and I knew going in that I could lose everything. I decided I was prepared to live with whatever the outcome was. But instead I gained something invaluable; my best friend knows my darkest secret and loves me even more for it. I sincerely wish you both the very best.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Please invite your wife to this site. If she needs people to talk to, she can find those that understand here. Many of us came out to our spouses. Many of those spouses have accounts on this site and provide wonderful support.

I would also recommend finding support groups in your area or online for Mixed Orientation Marriages.

Pasa

[Realist]

Dan,

When you first posted your intentions, when you announced your plans after dropping your daughter off, I wrote a flippant answer. (My answer was generated by a personal experience) But, I really think you did the right thing and your wife's response indicated that she listened. She said what she felt at the time, but I hope she will do like another poster's wife did, finally come to accept your bisexuality.

She certainly took it better than my ex did.

I hope things work out for you and that you and she can come to terms with your love and "new" life.

[tenni]

Dan
I pondered whether to send you a PM or write here. For you, this decision has been moving forward probably for some time. Each of us makes decisions over and over again that leads us to certain paths. You chose this point in your life and marriage to disclose to your wife. I'm sure that there are a number of reasons why that happened. I'm sorry that one poster was rather less than supportive but happy that several are showing support for you now. May this decision lead you both to happiness and acceptance.

[gfofbiguy]

Hi Dan,

I'm glad you came out to your wife. I am the str8 g/f of a bi-guy.

I like the suggestion of having her come to this website and asking any questions she might have.

Also, there are some support groups for couples who are in a MOM (mixed orientation marriage):

Alternate Paths: which is for the woman of a gay/bi spouse and wants to work on keeping the marriage together. A very positive group, no bashing of the husband. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alternatepath/

HUGS: a support group where both spouses must join, but also a very positive group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HUGS_Couples2/

MMOMW: (Making Mixed Orientation Marriages Work) either spouse or both spouses may join, also a positive group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MMOMW/

Good luck to you both.

~~Gfofbiguy

[fredtyg]

Good to see you made it through your outing. Maybe not the best of all possible endings but, then again, it ain't necessarily over yet. Maybe she'll grow to accept your bisexuality?

[void()]

Good on you for the follow through, convict. At least you allowed your conviction to liberate you. Sorry that she will ultimately desire separating. But at least you were honest and true.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Congratulations for coming clean. From reading your other thread and posts it mustn't have been so easy and I am glad you feel some contentment from it.

But I am saddened by this at the same time.

You had the opportunity to mull over for a long time before actually telling her. Did you ever think to have some resources ready for her to help her beforehand? I mean... She just had her world turned upside down and now in a way, she needs an outlet and compassion and while she loves you, may not feel you are safe enough for her emotionally. gfofbiguy gave you some excellent resources to start with. I just think having had those ready beforehand would have shown her how much you cared about her feelings and can empathize with her.

I really hope the best for you both and that you both can navigate all the slopes that will come, amicably and with open heart.

[darkeyes]

I agree with Tidgie Fluffer.. it must have been awful for you both.. brave thing to come clean, but best in the long run.. however things turn out.. my fingers are well and truly crossed for u both and hope in both ur cases that ur stars are soon on the rise once again... kissie n huggle..:)

[open2both]

Bravo!
I'm pulling for ya'!

[danreidbarmi]

I can't tell you what a gift this forum is to me and how grateful I am for the compassion, support, and advice from this community. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

The bitterness has set in. For the time being, I am not allowed to sleep in my marital bed. She feels humiliated that I have discussed my sexuality issues and confusion with a few, select, trusted friends. She has requested that I make none of this public to anyone, until she goes through whatever process she needs to go through. Understandably, she feels very protective of our daughter, and doesn't want her to know, either.

She has made it clear that she will not stay in a marriage that isn't totally monogamous. To her, at this point, everything has changed. I've tried to point out that nothing has changed except for our mutual awareness. I still love her. I'm still devoted to her as my wife. I still love our daughter and remain devoted to being the best father I can be to her. We still have a beautiful home together, love the same movies, share the same spiritual beliefs and political points of view. The only thing that has really changed is that she is now aware that I am bisexual, that I desire to have sex with men, and that I'm not sure whether I can live without fulfilling those desires.

I know that her grief and anger will go through stages. I'm willing to sleep on the couch and wait it out, to be there for her when she wants me to be, and to disappear when she doesn't. She has asked repeated, "What is it that you want from me?" My answer consistently is this: "I only want you to know two things: that I love you, and that I'm so, so sorry." She tells me that she knows. I can only hope that she really believes me. That's all I can ask right now.

[littlerayofsunshine]

I can't tell you what a gift this forum is to me and how grateful I am for the compassion, support, and advice from this community. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

The bitterness has set in. For the time being, I am not allowed to sleep in my marital bed. She feels humiliated that I have discussed my sexuality issues and confusion with a few, select, trusted friends. She has requested that I make none of this public to anyone, until she goes through whatever process she needs to go through. Understandably, she feels very protective of our daughter, and doesn't want her to know, either.

She has made it clear that she will not stay in a marriage that isn't totally monogamous. To her, at this point, everything has changed. I've tried to point out that nothing has changed except for our mutual awareness. I still love her. I'm still devoted to her as my wife. I still love our daughter and remain devoted to being the best father I can be to her. We still have a beautiful home together, love the same movies, share the same spiritual beliefs and political points of view. The only thing that has really changed is that she is now aware that I am bisexual, that I desire to have sex with men, and that I'm not sure whether I can live without fulfilling those desires.

I know that her grief and anger will go through stages. I'm willing to sleep on the couch and wait it out, to be there for her when she wants me to be, and to disappear when she doesn't. She has asked repeated, "What is it that you want from me?" My answer consistently is this: "I only want you to know two things: that I love you, and that I'm so, so sorry." She tells me that she knows. I can only hope that she really believes me. That's all I can ask right now.


I feel you telling her 'nothing' has changed is rather a flippant remark to her. Her whole world has changed, what she once thought was real and true is now seen as a illusion.. And to say bitterness has set in is rather insulting in regards to her feelings.

She is protecting herself, much as you did for yourself through your deceptions. You had a place and people to go to so satisfy yourself. But she just got blindsided and I am certain she feels she has no where to turn.

All the more reason for YOU to make her aware of resources she can turn to. She hasn't changed, you have in her eyes. You have a responsibility to make this fall she is taking and make is as painless for her as possible. Giving her a soft landing.

By the way you describe in your post.....you are taking the "sit back and wait and see" approach which means you are washing your hands of your responsibilities and leaving it all up to her.

Just as I said before, While you were taking time mulling over telling her, you should have prepared yourself to help her through this by giving her access to information and resources that she can rely on. Cause for right now, she can't rely on you.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I think you are being too hard, LROS. And I think you're reading too much into it. Cut him some slack. It's not easy, and no one gets it right all the way. He's taken the biggest step. Perhaps instead of nitpicking how he didn't get that step 100% right, you could be supportive, and make kind suggestions rather than "I told you..." and "While you were..." accusations.

Pasa

[littlerayofsunshine]

I think you are being too hard, LROS. And I think you're reading too much into it. Cut him some slack. It's not easy, and no one gets it right all the way. He's taken the biggest step. Perhaps instead of nitpicking how he didn't get that step 100% right, you could be supportive, and make kind suggestions rather than "I told you..." and "While you were..." accusations.

Pasa


While I may admit, the tone you have perceived may sound callous and not how it did in my frame of mind, which was of deep concern and genuine care. It was not meant to be accusatory. But showing how I drew my conclusions. If I wasn't being supportive, I would not have offered any advice at all or given bad advice or said he was a very bad bad bad man. Which I didn't do. Reading too much???? Don't we all at some point????

Honestly, I was just doing what LROS does best, Blunt, Clear, Concise, Honest. Which, usually is more helpful when helping people, than just telling them what they want to hear. There are times when you have to tell someone what they need to hear.

I have helped and supported many through this site. In just the same way I have offered advice with this one. And never has anyone ever complained and even more rare, was someone unappreciative and Many are still my friends today and still seek my advice and support.

If you had noticed, i started that post with the words "I feel" Not YOU ARE.

"I feel" pretty much leads the whole thought process of the post. *Sighs*

And it wasn't an intended purpose to report a failure of his methodology. But merely showing an avenue that is still open to him. And someone who is in a similar situation as He was when he was contemplating telling her, will read this, maybe ponder my advice and see it as something that they may do for themselves.

If it helps one person.. Then it has served a purpose.

[tenni]

I just read a wonderful support wording from LROS to a guy rape victim. Sorry but I think that LROS was too harsh as well in this situation. I do not see this as supportive but an attack even though it has the seeds of advice. Dan doesn't need to be kicked over what he didn't do. That is too late. I do not recall such harsh attack words being given to that woman a few months ago who did this to her religious boyfriend. No one told her to have brochures ready for her boyfriend? I believe that her boyfriend eventually left the engagement. I do think that LROS had the best intention though. I think that others have given more constructive advice to Dan.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Awww shucks...


*goes into the corner and sits in the naughty chair, twirling a curly hair tendril and nervously plays with her boobies. Thinking about her wrongdoings and mumbling "Where's Fran's tidgies when you need them? I want my mommy. Wahhhhh..." Looks in the mirror and notices how cute she looks with her big brown puppy dog eyes and her bottom lip stuck out and finds herself playing a little less nervously with her boobies, but definitely more intensely. Releases a soft moan*

[by~his~side]

wtf?.......can't anyone just stick to the intended point of threads without making it somehow all about themselves?

Anyway, back to being supportive of Dan. Which should be the purpose of this thread.
Dan, I think you have the right approach. Be there for her when she needs you....when she has questions and needs reassurance. Give her space when she needs to deal with her thoughts and feelings on her own. But remember to always communicate. And let her know you are here for her.
I never took any of your statements to mean you were washing your hands of your responsibilities. It's obvious you love your wife and family.
Hang in there. Many of us are hanging on tight for you.

~D~

[mikey3000]

I just read a wonderful support wording from LROS to a guy rape victim. Sorry but I think that LROS was too harsh as well in this situation. I do not see this as supportive but an attack even though it has the seeds of advice. Dan doesn't need to be kicked over what he didn't do. That is too late. I do not recall such harsh attack words being given to that woman a few months ago who did this to her religious boyfriend. No one told her to have brochures ready for her boyfriend? I believe that her boyfriend eventually left the engagement. I do think that LROS had the best intention though. I think that others have given more constructive advice to Dan.

Ditto.

Rather harsh.

Dan, you did the right thing. Congradulations!!! And you're doing right by giving her some space too. Let her process this news and stay close if she wants some answers. It she flips and yells at you, take it. She is in shock and most likely very scared of the future. I know cause I'm just going through the same thing. I came out a year ago and it's still not perfect, but it does get better every day. We're still together and we're still talking and working on it. For me it helped to discover why I had these feelings for men, then communicate them to her the best I can. Your marriage doesn't have to end. Just let her take everything in.

Good luck.

[mikey3000]

Awww shucks...


*goes into the corner and sits in the naughty chair, twirling a curly hair tendril and nervously plays with her boobies. Thinking about her wrongdoings and mumbling "Where's Fran's tidgies when you need them? I want my mommy. Wahhhhh..." Looks in the mirror and notices how cute she looks with her big brown puppy dog eyes and her bottom lip stuck out and finds herself playing a little less nervously with her boobies, but definitely more intensely. Releases a soft moan*

Wasn't it you just a few days ago who asked for compassion with your medical condition? How about give some respect back to others when they need it. No one asked for your your snarky, straight from the hip attitude. Be constructive if you must, but be respectful or shut up. You cannot demand respect without giving it first. Shame on you.

[DuckiesDarling]

If you're not going to be monogamous with her and are just still going to cheat on her with men or force her to accept the fact that you're going to sleep with men despite her wishes that you do not, a divorce is the right thing to do.

If your wife wants a monogamous relationship and you are not willing to give this to her if you respect her you should end the marriage.

I'm a bisexual woman and if I found out someone who I was in what I thought was a monogamous relationship with had been lying and cheating on me I wouldn't let them sleep with me either and I'd end the relationship because they can't be trusted.

You're bisexual having sex with men is not something that you need since you have a wife who you have sex with and you have a relationship with her that should have came first before cheating on her with men and going out and having sex with men did.

Get a divorce if you refuse to stop having sex with men.

You've shown her how you can't be trusted to be monogamous and not cheat on her and lie to her.

I agree with littleray are you unable to stop being selfish and stop thinking about yourself and put yourself in her viewpoint?

You lied and cheated on her for years and knew all long that you're bisexual and you're expecting her to be supportive of your lying and cheating. The whole "nothing has changed for her" attitude is very flippant and so is the whole sit back and wait and see approach is just shifting the responsibility onto her.

You should have told your wife about your bisexuality before you got married and had children.

My goodness the bitch is back. New name but still a twit who knows nothing about the real world. Still work at Walmart chasing your straight "friend"? Dan, just ignore her, her other name was Bemyonlyone and you can see from the history of her posts despite numerous attempts to help she just refused to listen.


Now to the point of this, just hugs Dan. Being the straight one in a relationship is not easy even if there is no extramarital sex going on. As had been said, please invite her to this site. There are several of us here that are involved with bi men and that will give her someone to talk to.

[Long Duck Dong]

I agree with LROS,...... offering the wife some resources in advance would have been a good move..... it doesn't change things, but it cushions the blow a lil

many times when i was doing counselling, I have said to people, that the coming out is the hard part.... giving your partner some insight and understanding is the important part.....

with DD, I directed her to the site and allowed her to make her own opinion about me and bisexuality...... and I waited patiently for her reaction...... I can not change the fact I am bisexual, but I can change how the bisexuality is addressed and dealt with within a relationship.....so it was important to me that DD was forewarned and well armed and could come back as me on the same level as I would be talking to her....

she would have the understanding that bisexuality is a attraction to both genders, but not a request to be allowed to sleep with both genders in the relationship and that I accepted and expected rules and guidelines from her in regards to the relationship and what she could handle and cope with....

unfortunately people often see a admittance to bisexuality as a request for extra martial relations as well..... but they are separate issues...... and that is one part of coming out, that we tend to err on..... we do not seperate them both for our partners and in our partners eyes......

the other aspect is that we may be bisexual, but our sexual attractions and desires are only one part of a partnership, our partners own feelings and desires are the other part, and they will not always match ours...... unfortunately, that can end to the ending of a marriage / relationship.... or cheating and discreet liaisions.... or the pressuring of a partner to agree to / allow us to wander, something that the partner may do rather than lose us as a partner.....

[Pasadenacpl2]

Cheating is bad. And we should not do it. I think Dan had had enough on his conscience. We all make bad decisions. We don't all come clean right away. I"m not someone who condones cheating. I especially don't condone people justifying it.

I haven't heard Dan justify it. I've heard contrition, and a desire to get back on the right path. And more, I've heard that he is willing to accept whatever the outcome is. That takes guts.

No, he didn't hit everything he could have done. Yes, he could have had some things ready to show her. Yes, he probably could have been better in his response. But, BOTH people are goign through heavy duty shit.

Never ceases to amaze me that the GLBT "community" is so rife with such assholes who turn on each other. It's just never good enough for many of you, is it? They either should stay in the closet, or come out of the closet, but not do it over dinner, or not too close to Christmas, or Kwanza, and especially don't tell over Ramadan. And you'd better have a full spread of pamphelets and websites in advance, but don't look to eager, and you'd better have just the right tone when you answer questions, but don't tell too much, and make sure you don't hide anything....

FOR FUCK'S SAKE SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

Pasa

[DuckiesDarling]

He didn't say he cheated or wanted to cheat. What he said was that his wife is having a hard time accepting the fact her husband might have desires to sleep with anyone else, regardless of gender.

Yes, they are both going through a hard time and I know it's hard on both. I do feel a bit more sympathy for the wife in this situation as I can just imagine the shock. With LDD, I had a bit of warning and that was BEFORE we were really involved, it wasn't after years of thinking I was his one and only and satisfying his every need and desire and then getting hit with it on an emotional day.

So, Dan, give her time, but also make her aware there are places she can go for information that won't judge her or you for things out of your control.

[DuckiesDarling]

and that changes the fact that someone who's posted on here about never even being kissed is now telling him what a scumbag he is? Back to ignore you go no matter how many new names you create.

[Pasadenacpl2]

In his case a divorce is a good thing since he does not want to be monogamous and is into lying and cheating and has been doing this for years to his wife.

It's not my fault that his marriage ended because he lies and cheats since he doesn't respect his wife, love, or care for her at all.

He should have just been honest with her from the start about being bisexual and never cheated at all. None of this would have happened if it hadn't been for his choice to cheat on someone who he supposedly cares about.

Bisexuality like LongDuck said is not an excuse to force non-monogamy or extramarital affairs on a spouse who you supposedly care for, love, and respect like danreidbarmi is doing.

Oh and Pasa I remember on your old name that was banned for trolling that you wrote about how you had cheated quite a bit on your wife who you supposedly love and care for.

Some people just shouldn't be married at all. If you're going to cheat. or wind up lying and cheating on a spouse then marriage is not for you.

You don't know the fist thing about me. Nor my marriage. If you'd recalled accurately of what I'd posted about it, you'd know that I admitted my infidelity, she forgave me, and we moved on to rebuild our marriage.

I'll go a step further. Marriage is not always defined by your silly little boundaries. If you knew anything, you'd know that marriage is a multi faceted thing that is defined only by the people involved.

I'll go a step further and remind you that you shouldn't throw stones. You've been banned more than once from this site. I, on the other hand, have still not gotten an explanation, though it has been requested. Most people who have been around seem to think it was a fluke.

I'll take it even further. I'm a member of this community with a great many good friendships developed through time and shared experiences. You, on the other hand, are beaten back every time you pop up. Perhaps when you get to spending quality time here, and show something other than your ass, you can develop into a community member.

I made a general statement that covered a great many people. You decided to get personal. f you want to get personal with me, be my guest. But it won't go places you like.

Pasa

[Pasadenacpl2]

Never been banned, eh? Then why the new account with only 7 posts? Hrmm? I guess I could be wrong, but we all know that this isn't your first rodeo around here.

And yes, we all remember your stalker stories.

And finally, you don't know who I've spent time with in person on this site and who I have not. I'd venture to say it is a far greater number than you have. If you don't care about this community, that's fine. You'll continue to get the same treatment from it, then.

And on the iggy list you go along with your last account.

Pasa

[TaylorMade]

What makes you think I'm still a virgin? I'm not.

I'll believe it when I see it. . .but I'll throw in a . . .yay. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enSYlCEz5VI)

*Taylor*

[TaylorMade]

Anyhow, dan . . . you may not have known to soften the blow, but you did the right thing all around. :) Give her time, hugs, a backrub... if it ends, so be it . . .if not, be grateful.

*Taylor*

[danreidbarmi]

Once again, as I experienced on the Craigslist Queer Forum, a few judgmental meddlers have taken over the discussion, making assumptions that lump me in with every other troll who has manipulated and hurt people simply to satisfy his desires. Calling my language flippant, declaring that I should have told her back when we first started dating, and insisting that I divorce my wife is not constructive advice, nor is it appreciated. From here, it's entirely up to her as to whether we remain married. You moralistic nazis can butt out.

I am learning continually -- about myself and my sexuality. When my wife and I first started dating, and thru the first five-plus years of our marriage, I thought I had put my gay "phase" behind me years before. I sincerely thought it was a non-issue. Then there was a re-awakening of my curiosity: gay porn, masturbating in the bushes in the park while observing guys going at it, then in booths at adult book stores. Years later, I allowed another man to touch me. More years went by before I started returning those touches, and it was only recently that I began exposing myself to any serious risk. Ever since I began putting my own health and therefore my wife's in jeopardy, I have been battling with facing the tortured truth: that I may not have the strength to resist having sex with men, and that I had to finally tell my wife.

Some of you use such terms as "choosing" and "choice," assuming that I have casually decided to live this way with no regard for consequences. I believe wholeheartedly in personal responsibility (and integrity and honesty); but, from my experience, compulsive behavior virtually eliminates choice from the equation. I have found my gut churning and my car turning toward one of those places where I am liable to meet another guy for a quick, exciting, mutually pleasurable encounter. Reason told me that what I was about do was very, very wrong. Reason, however, was not at the wheel.

Although I am an intelligent, creative, successful person, I compartmentalized my life, justifying my illicit behavior by explaining to myself that because I have never cheated with another woman, my hook-ups with men didn't constitute being untrue to my marriage. My therapist set me straight on that account. It was only a month or so ago that I swallowed that jagged pill. Yes, I have been, in fact, a liar and a cheat. I know that now. But, I'm no longer a liar. Cheating, however, is something I'm not so sure I can cure.

As far as being flippant about my wife seeing only the dark clouds in this storm, I'm only trying to point out (probably feebly) that, although it may look all black to her at this moment, the most fundamental parts of our partnership are still there. In spite of what she has believed about me in the past, I am still the same man. Understandably, what she now knows about me colors everything else, but that is only perception. In the long run, I don't think she'll hate me because I've finally decided to be honest. She may, however, hate me because I cheated, put her health at risk, and tore her world apart, and for those reasons, she has every right.

As far as providing resources for my wife to cope and get through her pain and confusion: first of all, this is all new information for me; I really appreciate you sharing, and I know how valuable this kind of support system can be. She, however, is not receptive to anything that I suggest. I have tried to pass this info along lovingly, and it only exacerbates an already incendiary situation. So, for the time being, all I can do is try to stay out of the line of fire, be there and be understanding and compassionate when she wants to communicate, and keep telling her that I love her and that I'm sorry.

[tenni]

"Although I am an intelligent, creative, successful person, I compartmentalized my life, justifying my illicit behavior by explaining to myself that because I have never cheated with another woman, my hook-ups with men didn't constitute being untrue to my marriage. My therapist set me straight on that account. It was only a month or so ago that I swallowed that jagged pill. Yes, I have been, in fact, a liar and a cheat. I know that now. But, I'm no longer a liar. Cheating, however, is something I'm not so sure I can cure."

Dan
I admire you.

As I have been reading the comments reacting to your thoughts, I am aware of how it is difficult or awkward to determine which of us are worthy of listening to and which are so wounded for whatever reason it is best to let them be. Sometimes such wounded posters disturb me with their lack of compassion for us. I will try to show them a bit more tolerance. We are just a group of bisexuals trying to live our lives. None of us have "the" answer.

[darkeyes]

The problem with confession, as with any other kind of exposure of our betrayals, it does tend to fundamentally change how our partner views us or thinks of us.. the belief in and trust in us is gone.. it is possible to rebuild that sometimes but not always. Im one of the lucky people who has I think managed that with my partner.. but not after a lengthy seperation and a great deal of pain.. and a hell of a lot of hard work and commitment to rebuilding what we had. Yes it is possible, but not for everyone, for not everyone is prepared to forgive and to try and understand. Why should they? It is not they who broke the trust and the vow of fidelity.. and yet many do, and in time lives are rebuilt and relationships not only saved but prosper.. and very often.. those of us who have betrayed another.. find it impossible to forgive themselves... I have come to terms with my betrayal but I have never forgiven myself.. it is only through the love of my partner I managed that..

People who are so judgemental about our betrayals look on such things in black and white.. no we should not betray, but we are human with human weaknesses and desires and no matter who we are, there is always the circumstance, the chance meeting, the brief moment of insanity which may bring everything crashing down.. I often say that I am a flawed human. We are all flawed human beings.. but our sexuality whatever that may be is never a justification for our betrayal, but that is no different in my mind to for anyone who strays the nest.. bisexuals may have twice the choice but the betrayal is the same as any straight or gay person who because of commitment and agreement with another breaks a promise of fidelity.. straight and gay people give up much to be faithful. Because one is bisexual is not so very different if at all...

[Realist]

Dan,

Hang in there, don't give up. You're in a bad way, right now, and no one can predict the outcome. Many of us have had similar fights with fate and life. The way I look at advice and criticism is, everyone has their own opinion and some are less tactful at sharing their thoughts. Drastic advice, that goes against your grain, should be overlooked.

I'm sure your nerves are on edge and may be overly sensitive. I've been there, too! The guilt, uncertainty, and depression is sometimes overwhelming.

I think you are dong what's right for you and hope the outcome is what ever is best.

About advice: There's good and bad advice; take what you need, can understand, feel right about, then forget the rest. Don't let your detractors get to you. No one can say what is exactly right for your particular situation.....in the end, you must do what is in you to do and then, live with the results.

For myself, I hope things turn out well for both you and your wife.

[tenni]

"Reason told me that what I was about do was very, very wrong. Reason, however, was not at the wheel."

I also like this line Dan. I'm not sure if it applies more to bimen than biwomen but it hold a lot of weight for me in understanding the pressure and complexity of being bisexual. It is for others to personally determine how or if this is a factor for them.

[ninetythree]

The first thing she desperately needs is someone to talk to. In her pain and confusion, her assessment was that we will more than likely have to make plans to split up.

There's a mailing list on Yahoo with a lot of straight women with gay or bisexual husbands:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MMOMW/

Your wife should join that list. She will find people to talk to who've been in her situation.

[ninetythree]

Your point is something that I've been curious about in others. I know that bisexuality means different things to different people so the idea that it means one needs to have sex with both is foreign to me.

Me too. I'm attracted to both sexes and have been completely monogamous with my wife for the entire 20-plus years of our marriage. I don't need to have sex with men any more than I need to have sex with Giada De Laurentiis of the Food Network. Though, admittedly, it would rock. :-).

I can understand why others feel they need to have sex with both. That's just not me.

[ninetythree]

The bitterness has set in. For the time being, I am not allowed to sleep in my marital bed. She feels humiliated that I have discussed my sexuality issues and confusion with a few, select, trusted friends. She has requested that I make none of this public to anyone, until she goes through whatever process she needs to go through.

You should do what she asks and be extremely patient with her. It is a massive hit to self-esteem to be cheated on and it hits you a dozen different ways.

If you are not in marriage counseling, you can probably help each other by finding a good counselor.

You can assert over and over that nothing has changed, but it's not true. Maybe it has ultimately changed for the better, but it has definitely changed.

[fredtyg]

Again you're making up excuses to free yourself from blame and personal responsibility and the personal choice to cheat on your wife and free yourself of all responsibilities and blame for your lying and cheating.

I'm getting to think there's nothing Dan can do to satisfy some of the holier- than- thou strictly monogamous folks here. Seems to me he's fessed up and done everything he can to settle things, but that's not good enough for some of you.


Did you honestly really think that you would never have any attractions to men ever again at all?
You are an example of why people should come out very early and often as teenagers and as young adults or before they get married so they don't wind up lying, cheating, and hurting a spouse like you did.

That's a very common problem seen here. It seems many, if not most of us here, thought their homosexual desires would go away over time, but they didn't.

As I've written before, I agree with you that the vast majority of us should have come out much earlier in our lives, especially when getting involved in relationships. Many of us didn't. You don't need to rub salt in that wound.

My only hope is the younger folks that come here will learn a lesson from our mistakes.

[ninetythree]

You are an example of why people should come out very early and often as teenagers and as young adults or before they get married so they don't wind up lying, cheating, and hurting a spouse like you did.

Too harsh.

Some people don't know they're bisexual or gay at the time they make a lifelong commitment to a partner. Others think -- while they are in the thrill of early romance -- that they've been cured.

Though everybody should come out before they get married, lots of people come out after marriage without cheating. The issue here isn't sexuality, it's dishonesty.

[tenni]

Too harsh.

Some people don't know they're bisexual or gay at the time they make a lifelong commitment to a partner. Others think -- while they are in the thrill of early romance -- that they've been cured.

Though everybody should come out before they get married, lots of people come out after marriage without cheating. The issue here isn't sexuality, it's dishonesty.

I would write that it is a bit more complicated than writing the word "dishonesty" but that is a case by case situation. He was not being dishonest about stealing cookies. It took Dan some time to evolve to a position where he could "disclose". It also took him to get the help of a counsellor to reach that point. He was not able to reach this point on his own. Simplistic words written on a website do not always work. I would say that this is about sexuality and in particular bisexuality in a mixed orientation relationship. It is also in some side bar way about bigotry towards non heteros. Hetero women are more inclined to have difficulty with accepting bimen than the reverse(apparently). In that respect, it may also be about hetero women and their issues. But the main thing is that it is about Dan.

[tenni]

"You're not thinking about his wife either."

I am thinking about his wife. His wife is a hetero woman and I stated that this is also about their issues. It is about mixed orientation relationships as well. If you do not see or agree with that, then that will have to do. As I stated, Dan, started this thread and it is mainly about him. It is also about the other issues but they are the broader issues. What I will not do is throw Dan to the lions to be ridiculed and devoured under a mantra of "oh the poor hetero wife".

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

First of all: Dan, kudos on coming out, even if it might be one of the most difficult things in your live, but at least you were honest to her. Right now her whole world is upside down, she feels the loss of a child going off to college, then in the same instance the man of her life comes out as being bi. Step into her shoes for a bit, hon.
Just keep reassuring her that you Do love and care for her over and over again.
Good luck to you in what ever you decide to do.
Cat

[Wrenn]

Oh dear lord, she's back.

[csrakate]

Don't y'all see our troll is back...as aggravating as this bemyonlyone may have been, the vernacular of THIS person is that of our troll.....ignore this person....don't fan their flames.....PLEASE!!!

[mikey3000]

Dan, just remember that you do not have to apologize to anyone here for your actions. You handled the situation the best way you could and as you saw fit. I think you did a fine job. Just keep it up.

[ninetythree]

I would write that it is a bit more complicated than writing the word "dishonesty" but that is a case by case situation.

I know we don't see eye to eye on this, but I think the word applies. It is dishonest to let your mate think you are in a monogamous relationship when you're out having sex with other people. Your mate might want to avail herself (or himself) of that opportunity and see other people too. Or she or he might want to find a monogamous partner.

There's nothing wrong with non-monogamy if both partners know and accept it. If one is in the dark, though, as Dan acknowledged himself, it is hurtful.

[TaylorMade]

First of all: Dan, kudos on coming out, even if it might be one of the most difficult things in your live, but at least you were honest to her. Right now her whole world is upside down, she feels the loss of a child going off to college, then in the same instance the man of her life comes out as being bi. Step into her shoes for a bit, hon.
Just keep reassuring her that you Do love and care for her over and over again.
Good luck to you in what ever you decide to do.
Cat

Q(uoted) F(or) T(ruth).

*Taylor*

[danreidbarmi]

As of today, my marriage is over. I was partaking of a small cup of granola and scanning the morning news, when my wife stormed in, slamming the door behind her, and charged into the dining room. "I have something to say," she declared through clenched teeth. Our eyes met. "You have destroyed our marriage!"

She went on to make it ever-so clear that she and I would never make love again, and that all that remains now is for us to work out a timeline to bring our marriage to an end. The rest of the tirade instructed me that I am a complete narcissist who spends all of his time "blogging," while she is forced to deal with the real world (a challenge she is now unable to face, due to her husband's uncontrollable sexual compulsions, which she subsequently claimed she "doesn't give a shit about"). Then, she marched up the stairs to lie down, while I attempted to gather my thoughts. About ten minutes later, after discovering that it was hopeless for me to swallow another bite, let alone concentrate on whatever "letter to the editor" had intrigued me before her tirade stole my attention, I took the stairs to respond.

"I have a couple of things to say," I said softly. She sat bolt-upright, quickly stealing herself for yet another confrontation. "I heard everything you said," I confessed, "and I deserve all of it." Her face softened for a moment. "As far as the future of our marriage is concerned, that is entirely up to you. I'm not trying to gang up on you with people who are going to try to convince you to stay in a relationship you don't believe in. But, you need somebody to talk to. Somebody who has experienced what you're going through right now."

"I have my own friends," she protested. "I don't need to go to strangers for help."

"Go ahead and talk to your friends," I responded. "But, they don't have any perspective other than they love you and hate to see you in pain.

As much as I dread seeing this marriage coming to an end, I will not try to convince her to stay with me. That is her decision. Above all sins, she disdains philandering. So, it's not looking good today. I am deeply saddened by this turn of events. But, at least I am finally being honest. And, a fragment of hope remains.

[mikey3000]

Stay strong buddy.

My wife went through the divorce stage too. Give her a little more time. I too didn't try to change her mind. I just let her go on. She might change her mind or she might follow through. Just remember that you are an amazing person who did the best he could. I do believe it's your time to be true to you, after being the best Dad, husband and provider you posibly could. If she wants to join you on your new journey, wonderful, but if not, you'll still be ok.

Peace Brother.

[danreidbarmi]

Mikey: thank you, thank you, thank you. Your kind and compassionate words mean a lot to a man who is trying to do the only right thing, but is only getting pummeled for making the attempt.

When the spouse tells you she wants an "honest relationship" but condemns you for finally being honest, it's tuff to take. I am trying to be as patient, empathetic, and understanding as I can be. My native tendency is to say, "Fuck it!" But, somehow I stay silent. As a first-born, Virgo "know-it-all," this is putting what there is of my humility to the ultimate test. I do know now that I don't know much, that I still have plenty to learn, etc. My pride and ego, however, don't get that. And, it never gets easy. If it ever does, I guess then I'll start making plans to cash it in.

[onewhocares]

Dan,

First, a big hug to you. Second, as someone who has been in her shoes the anger is normal, so is the feeling of betrayal and of lack of trust. I agree with an earlier comment of the stages of a marriage which is dying. But like a phoneix, it can rise. Honest, communication, understanding, realizing what your marriage is worth to each of you, and it may not be the same.

Coming out is not easy for either partner in a marriage. Seemingly you have taken much time to come to the descision to come out to yourself and then to her. You must give her equal time to come to the shock of this recent revelation.

I do agree with this quote:

Also, there are some support groups for couples who are in a MOM (mixed orientation marriage):

Alternate Paths: which is for the woman of a gay/bi spouse and wants to work on keeping the marriage together. A very positive group, no bashing of the husband. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alternatepath/

HUGS: a support group where both spouses must join, but also a very positive group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HUGS_Couples2/

MMOMW: (Making Mixed Orientation Marriages Work) either spouse or both spouses may join, also a positive group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MMOMW/

I think she will find some understanding. No one there is going to push her into something she does not want, but rather folks in both of your shoes who can offer advice, compassion and similar situations.

If at ANYTIME your wife needs to talk to someone who has walked in her shoes, do not hesitate to have her contact me.

Belle

[mikey3000]

She's right about you being a complete narcissist who cares about nobody but himself and she's right that you did ruin your marriage by lying and cheating on her.

You get what you deserve for not coming out to her before you got married.

If you had actually cared about her as a person and a friend and about your marriage you wouldn't have lied and cheated on her like you did.

What are you, fucking 12 years old? You obviously don't know anything about love, marriage and life, so please STFU till you have a clue what you're talking about, TROLL TROLL TROLL!!!!!

[DuckiesDarling]

As of today, my marriage is over. I was partaking of a small cup of granola and scanning the morning news, when my wife stormed in, slamming the door behind her, and charged into the dining room. "I have something to say," she declared through clenched teeth. Our eyes met. "You have destroyed our marriage!"

She went on to make it ever-so clear that she and I would never make love again, and that all that remains now is for us to work out a timeline to bring our marriage to an end. The rest of the tirade instructed me that I am a complete narcissist who spends all of his time "blogging," while she is forced to deal with the real world (a challenge she is now unable to face, due to her husband's uncontrollable sexual compulsions, which she subsequently claimed she "doesn't give a shit about"). Then, she marched up the stairs to lie down, while I attempted to gather my thoughts. About ten minutes later, after discovering that it was hopeless for me to swallow another bite, let alone concentrate on whatever "letter to the editor" had intrigued me before her tirade stole my attention, I took the stairs to respond.

"I have a couple of things to say," I said softly. She sat bolt-upright, quickly stealing herself for yet another confrontation. "I heard everything you said," I confessed, "and I deserve all of it." Her face softened for a moment. "As far as the future of our marriage is concerned, that is entirely up to you. I'm not trying to gang up on you with people who are going to try to convince you to stay in a relationship you don't believe in. But, you need somebody to talk to. Somebody who has experienced what you're going through right now."

"I have my own friends," she protested. "I don't need to go to strangers for help."

"Go ahead and talk to your friends," I responded. "But, they don't have any perspective other than they love you and hate to see you in pain.

As much as I dread seeing this marriage coming to an end, I will not try to convince her to stay with me. That is her decision. Above all sins, she disdains philandering. So, it's not looking good today. I am deeply saddened by this turn of events. But, at least I am finally being honest. And, a fragment of hope remains.

Dan,

Right now your wife is very hurt and in all likelihood making statements that may very well change later. You said it yourself it's the other people not the sex of the other people she is having a hard time with. My heart goes out to you both but I feel very strongly that your marriage has ALREADY ended in her mind and all that remains is the legal tactics. I know that's a hard thing to accept but it really takes two to make a marriage work. And when one party walks away from the marriage table then communication breaks down. You have a large network here, she has nothing and doesn't seem to want anything more. I do suggest perhaps cutting down on your computer time as that seems a major issue with you "blogging" and just spending some time rediscovering what you love so much about her. Show her you are still the man she loves and you may have a chance.

[Long Duck Dong]

Mikey: thank you, thank you, thank you. Your kind and compassionate words mean a lot to a man who is trying to do the only right thing, but is only getting pummeled for making the attempt.

When the spouse tells you she wants an "honest relationship" but condemns you for finally being honest, it's tuff to take. I am trying to be as patient, empathetic, and understanding as I can be. My native tendency is to say, "Fuck it!" But, somehow I stay silent. As a first-born, Virgo "know-it-all," this is putting what there is of my humility to the ultimate test. I do know now that I don't know much, that I still have plenty to learn, etc. My pride and ego, however, don't get that. And, it never gets easy. If it ever does, I guess then I'll start making plans to cash it in.

it has a lot to do with the fact that strangers knew more about you than your own partner......

for a partner thats a world class slap in the face..... and its something many people do..... use the argument that they can not talk to their partners cos their partners do not understand....... and that can be the same reason our partners do not talk to us.... we refuse to accept what they have to say.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I've been married and my wife when she was alive and before we were married knew about my bisexuality long before we were married and I never lied and cheated on her.

It's called respecting your spouse and her wishes, being honest, and being in a monogamous relationship. You and danreidbarmi should try it sometime.

You're only reacting this way since you probably are or were into lying and cheating on your wife.

So...once somone makes a mistake, they are a narcissist no matter what they do? If they keep it to themselves, they are a narcissist? If they come out and confess, they are a narcissist? Only if you came out as a child are you worthy?

Your logic baffles me. Your lack of compassion is predictable, however.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Dan,

For the first time, I will tell you I think you are making a mistake. If you allow her to make that decision about the marriage, it is unfair. If you love her, and want to keep your marriage, then you need to fight for it. You need to prove to her that there is something there to fight for, to believe in.

I am reminded of a scene in the TV show Bones. I was pissed when I viewed it the first time because Angela was right.

Hodgins: "You're the one walking out."
Angela: "You're the one not stopping me."

Don't be that guy. If it ends, fine. But, if it ends and you didn't put up a fight, then you made the decision every bit as much as she did.

Pasa

[Pasadenacpl2]

I don't believe I said manipulate. I said fight for your marriage if you still want it and believe in it.

I've read his posts. I find them full of care for her and what she's going through. I also find confusion about the best path.

But, according to you, once he'd made his first mistake, he is condemned no matter what he does after that. Black and white is not at all what the real world is like.

Glad you knew young, and was always honest. Good for you. Not everyone is that smart that young. But, that doesn't mean that there isn't redemption available. This is an option you apparently don't consider, or discount all together.

I cheated on my wife. I was not honest with her. I came clean, I confessed, and I asked for forgiveness. She, being wiser than I, forgave me. Even when at one point I had given up and asked for a divorce she fought for me and for US. She was, even then, wiser than I.

Confession, and fighting for a relationship you don't want to give up can work, and can be the right choice.

Pasa

[BiCycler]

I'm not sure how the nasties here think they are contributing to this community. And if not, just what are they doing here?
Dan, I think you have done wrong too. We have all made mistakes, none, including the nasties, are immune to making poor choices. You seem a little cavalier in your descriptions of events. "I was partaking of a bowl of granola..." "I took to the stairs..." but I could be reading into that. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and your wife's. I'd be pretty blistered if I was your wife. I think we can all agree to that and you have spoken to that saying you are willing to accept her decisions and the consequences from this point. In your shoes, I don't quite understand the need to have sex with men. I, like another spent a marriage of 12 years happily monogomous. (The marriage ended when she left me for someone else). I don't understand the need, desire maybe, but not the need to have sex with a man. That doesn't mean your experience is the same as mine. Others have spoken to that need. I have to respect that. In your shoes, I have to say I have deep respect for you as well. You have stepped up to the plate, You have acknowledged your misdeeds. That couldn't have been anything but tough. Kudos for that. You talk the talk about the next step. Time will tell if you are the man you profess to be. I hope so.
The past is done and unchangeable. Beating someone up at this stage is like kicking a man on the ground. It takes no guts and even less compassion and understanding. Should have, could haves are uneeded here. Self rightiousness is uneeded anywhere including here in this thread.
I really like that people have come forward to speak about their own experiences. Some from the wife's POV and some from yours, Dan. Some comfort must be felt that others have weathered this storm you and your wife are in. I believe that should you two successfully find yourselves on the healing side of this, your relationship will be different. (I also think your relationship is changed as a result of this however you see it). If done with care and sensitivity and a lot of work, you may end up with a much stronger union. I believe for that to happen, you need to face the years of dishonesty fully. You need to acknowledge that your desires are not your ruler. I don't buy your excuses for messing with guys outside your relationship. You are an adult and adults utilize their executive function to make decisions different than you have done. As I said before, the past is past. It's your move from here. If you need to be with men, you need to accept, as I believe you have already said that you would, your wife's decision in that matter. That doesn't mean that you should continue to cheat. If she somehow comes to the point where she gives her blessing to have sex with men, that a different story.
Time has a way of healing wounds but some wounds don't heal and some leave scars. You have work to do and your wife needs to be open to allowing time to soften the blow as well. Your marriage may be saved. Your marriage may be ending. Either way not all is lost if you face this truthfuly. I hope the best for both of you.

[tenni]

I think that there are two things going on in this thread beyond Dan's personal situation. Bicycler has pointed out that the issue of desire and need for some bisexual men varies. Unlike some others, Bicycler choses to acknowledge and respect this difference without moralizing. I think that in the past some people's attitude (mainstream hetero?) or moralizing has prevented this community from moving our understanding forward. We speak about the variations in bisexuality. This may be just another variation that moralizing has blocked from supporting. Second, I am less clear on but in the past the moralizers like Hare have prevented the desire to help each other. Despite Hare's statements to the contrary, i add to Pasa and Mikey's statement that there is something unresolved for Hare if he can not find compassion in his heart for another bisexual's struggle. Hare try to look more within to understand why as a bisexual that you can not show compassion for other bisexual men's struggle.

Dan
I think that Pasa's message to you may be important. Sometime soon, ask yourself if you have presented your position and strongly communicated that you wish forgiveness and that you want to remain in the marriage. She may still leave and you may have to judge her point of anger as to when she may be open to actually even hearing the words. "I'm sorry" may not be the same as "forgive me"?

[ninetythree]

"I have a couple of things to say," I said softly. She sat bolt-upright, quickly stealing herself for yet another confrontation. "I heard everything you said," I confessed, "and I deserve all of it." Her face softened for a moment. "As far as the future of our marriage is concerned, that is entirely up to you. I'm not trying to gang up on you with people who are going to try to convince you to stay in a relationship you don't believe in. But, you need somebody to talk to. Somebody who has experienced what you're going through right now."

It sounds to me like you handled her anger just right and were patient and supportive. Good for you.

[danreidbarmi]

As March Hare has so much to say to me and about me (most of which is just the same, self-righteous blathering over and over - get a new theme, Hare, or take your sermonizing someplace else), here's my suggestion for him: change his identity to "BiJesus." It would be a much more appropriate moniker for he that so obviously walks on water.

Today's report: last night, we had a blowout. "I want you to know this," she announced, her face rigid and pale, tears streaming down her cheeks. "You have destroyed our marriage. I don't give a fuck about sexual addiction. I don't give a fuck about compartmentalizing. Our marriage is over!" Her speech went on for several more minutes, further describing me as a heartless scoundrel and her as the helpless victim. I listened, until I couldn't take it any longer.

I love my wife unconditionally. I cannot imagine anything she could tell me about herself that would change how I feel. If she had an uncontrollable jones for cannibalizing babies, I would still love her without condition. That doesn't make me a better person than her. It's just the truth. The fact is this: she has idealized me and our marriage, creating a fantasy romance in her head that has never been real. I tried to live up to her rose-colored vision. Meanwhile, she could see that I was troubled, sometimes even filled with rage. She was afraid to ask, to probe into what it was that was taking me deep into those dark, remote emotional places. She just pretended everything was fine -- and, I did my best to play along.

I am a writer by profession. I feel privileged to follow my Muse, and I love what I do. My wife, however, has never read a single thing I've written (fiction or non-, with the exception of my many letters to the editor), because she is afraid my writing will reveal a side of me she doesn't care for. It hurts that she continues to ignore my life's work. It hurts worse that she doesn't want to know who I really am. Her love has only been for the parts of me she chooses to acknowledge, not for the whole person. I called her on that. It wasn't pretty. We went to bed (I've been sleeping in our daughter's room, ironically waking up every morning surrounded by those Jonas twinks on posters and calendars all over her pink walls). This morning's evidence that my wife didn't get much sleep was a lengthy letter to me on the wood block in the kitchen. She copped to the whole thing. She apologized for not supporting my writing career and confessed that she doesn't want to know those things, or see what she might consider an unpleasant side of my character.

You can't just keep stuffing the unmentionables in a drawer. Out of sight, out of mind only works for so long. Sooner or later, the drawer is overflowing with a tangled mess and it can no longer be closed (or reopened, for that matter). As I took the beagle for her morning consitutional, it occurred to me that I hadn't "come out of the closet," I had actually "popped out of the drawer." I know some of you are thinking my language is "cavalier." But, I need to find some levity in life, or it just ain't worth it. Please give a guy a break.

A little while ago, we had a really lovely talk. It was good, healthy communication indicating that we still care deeply for each other and we're both learning a great deal from this very difficult, very painful experience. Still, she still can't fathom the idea of being in a non-monogamous marriage, and I can't promise her that I can be faithful.

On that note, those of you who think I'm not being "adult" by admitting my helplessness to my extra-marital, homosexual desires obviously know nothing whatsoever about compulsive behavior. When my belly begins to rumble and my face begins to flush, there is no reasoning. You might as well be telling a junkie on the verge of plunging a needle into his vein, "You don't really need that, do you." Yeah, try to take the syringe from my hand. If you don't know what that's like, then I suggest you read, "Out of The Shadows" by Patrick Carnes, before you criticize anyone for succumbing to lust.

Best to All, especially you, BiJesus

[fredtyg]

I'll have to admit to not understanding your wife's perspective on this but maybe it's just me? If my wife came to me and said she was bisexual and been seeing other girls for sex, I just can't imagine it bothering me.

Then again, I'm not a straight guy.

[Wrenn]

Dan, please help me understand something correctly. I don't wish to misunderstand your situation. Did you say your compulsion to have sex with men was a sexual addiction?

[ninetythree]

I love my wife unconditionally. I cannot imagine anything she could tell me about herself that would change how I feel. If she had an uncontrollable jones for cannibalizing babies, I would still love her without condition. That doesn't make me a better person than her. It's just the truth.

That's easy to say in the abstract, but as someone who had a huge betrayal dropped on me by my longtime spouse, it's not that easy in practice.

Your wife is probably feeling worthless as a result of being cheated on. She's also dealing with the fact that you confided in other people before she found out.

Given time and patience, she may realize that she'd rather forgive and be with you than give up on the marriage. She might even believe she can forge a better, more real relationship with you. You have already seen her admit that she was wrong to avoid your writing. That seems like a pretty big concession on her part.

[fredtyg]

A reminder to all- especially the new folks here- you can add March Hare and others like him you don't like hearing from to your Ignore List by going to his personal profile and clicking on the Add To My Ignore List link on the upper right of his profile.

You don't see the comments once you put them on your Ignore List.

[danreidbarmi]

Well, here comes March Hare (or BiJesus, as I like to call him) hop, hop, hoppin' down the bunny trail again. As this blowhard has declared himself the arbiter of all things moral or im- and an expert concerning every detail of my character and my marriage, I would like to fill "His Honor" in on some facts (and, I'll bet that his ability to identify the narcissist in me is due to his having seen one in the mirror every day for however long he's been livin' in this briar patch of a world, so he probably LOVES all this attention).

Sexuality wise, I am bi. I struggled for years to come to that conclusion, and when I finally identified that orientation in myself, I also realized that my wife deserved to know. Now she knows, and we're going through the process of dealing with it. (WE're going thru it, not you. Get it?) Another issue that has gone hand-in-hand with my sexual ambivalence is compulsion. I have been reluctant to blame my illicit behavior on sex addiction, because I have no desire to look for excuses. My therapist, a professional with numerous actual diplomas on her wall recommended that I read Patrick Carne's definitive tome on the subject. "I'm not saying that this applies to you," she explained, as she wrote down the title, "but you might recognize yourself in this book." (I suspect there exists no sheepskin honoring BiJesus with a PHD that would give him the credentials to make the kinds of unwelcome declarations he regularly spews in this forum. And, if he is a certified, practicing mental health professional, I wonder why he trolls these discussions to pontificate his snap diagnoses.)

From Carnes' Out of the Shadows:

"Research is further complicated by the delusional thought processes of addicts, who, in fact, are not aware of the extent of their problems. A long time elapses before recovering addicts have clarity, let alone before they are able to describe their past situations to others."

This describes me to the proverbial "T". We got trouble, my friends. Right here in River City. So, BiJesus, save your poisonous, ignorant, amateur, psychological rants for somebody who might actually care about what you think. You don't know shit (which is exactly what your hatred-filled crap smells like).

[ErosUrge]

Wow wow wow....after finally finishing reading all the posts to this thread, I feel like I've had the wind knocked out of me.
Most contributions here have shown decency and compassion and in my opinion, as it should be.
There is no doubt that this is one of the most difficult of circumstances to experience. Speaking for myself, I can remember whenever I found out that the person I thought was being monogamous with me was not. And I remember very well the feelings of hurt, anger, and loss....and feeling inadequate somehow that I could not keep their interest in me as when the original attractions and passions that brought us together first happened. The difference with those situations though, was the fact that they did not care in the least about my emotional well being and did not have the decency to explain anything. I am talking about women here that did not stay monogamous to our relationship.
However, in the history of my relationships and with others, I too was not 100% either, though I did try to explain.
I remember someone in one of these posts commented how there are those who somehow believe that the desire for wanting to continue with same sex excursions will somehow stop because they are so in love with someone. I remember feeling this way so many times and when the desire didn't stop, I couldn't understand it. And I felt horrible for hiding though somehow maintaining the hope that somehow it would cease eventually. But it never did.
Nowadays, I tell right from the beginning where there can be no deception and it's either understood or it's not leaving the woman the choice as to whether she wants to continue or not as was the case in my last relationship.
I think it terribly wrong to pounce upon someone who is doing the right thing now and has finally chosen to be true and honest to himself and consequently to his wife. It's amazing that some would tear this action down though it might be late. He certainly could have continued to deceive and NEVER reveal any of it; would that have been better? Always amazes me how some are ready to pounce once someone decides to finally bring light to themselves and others instead of continuing to live a lie. No credit given from the 2 trolls on here with their comments for coming clean. Wow!....
But their true colors are revealed and their judgments reveal who and what they are also.
For those who have been so harsh in their judgments here; they are the ones who continually look at the world from a pedestal of their own imaginings; that their views are above all others....probably profess to be Christian too whilst ignoring compassion....very Christian indeed. Ahhh yes, and judgments too....I think somewhere there is something about casting judgment on others so harshly as to have no compassion....you know, casting the first stone, etc...
Indeed Danreidbarmi has come to us to purge and rather than condemn him, he needs support. His wife too is no doubt suffering and is in horrible pain enduring these events which are shattering her world that once was. But the outcome is not realized just yet and what happens now is entirely between the two of them. I commend you Dan for your actions and let the Pharisees continue to parade as they always have and always do.

[tenni]

March Hare
I will answer a few of your questions although I suspect some would prefer that I ignore you.

"Why should I (March Hare) show empathy and compassion to someone who lied and cheated on their spouse?"

I think that you should find the ability to show empathy and compassion if not for Dan then for yourself. That may read simplistic but I'm suspecting that it would be damn hard for you to find this within yourself right now. As I inferred there is something not working inside of you or you have a huge connection to something in your past for you to be so strident. Dan did not cheat on you. You are identifying with his wife it seems. You have compassion for her but not Dan. You are not the victim but you wish to perpetuate something about being a victim rather than look at both sides. I find that I have empathy and compassion for many people who are struggling in life but I'm not an easy mark. It is much easier to give compassion to what looks like "the victim" but life is not always that simple on deeper examination. I've worked in the helping professions and it can be extremely hard and draining but rewarding in many ways. I offer what I can and get back at least as much as I give. Yes, sometimes you do get hurt and you have to protect yourself from the users as best you can. I do believe that we (reap) get what we sow and that it may not be a direct return. Mostly though you should because it will enrich your life. That may sound sappy to you and it would to me except that I've lived that path.

"WTF do you mean by "mainstream hetero values"?"
Well, this is very clear to me but maybe not others. The belief in Coupledom and monogamy are two mainstream values based upon a heterosexual lifestyle designed to raise children for the future of society. One husband and one wife who do not have sex with any other person regardless. This value seems designed for people to die before 40 though..lol. Mainstream values reject any sexuality other than heterosexuality..although there are signs of change this is very new. Non heteros may also uphold these mainstream hetero values well except for the one about only hetero relationships being the way to live...lol

[tristancir]

Very courageous. I know it must have been difficult. Your wife will go through an ordeal. You are right to be patient and let her work it out. In the end honesty and openness is the best policy.

I wanted to point out that being bisexual does not mean you have to have sex.

[Pasadenacpl2]

A PhD in what? Can't be anything relevant. No professional shrink of any stripe would diagnose without having met the person, and cretainly wouldn't do so publicly.

Pasa

[mikey3000]

I do have a PhD but what's the point in arguing about this online with a closet case like yourself?

Dude (if you really are a dude, though I doubt very much) there is no way you have a PhD from any reputable school. You are way too ignorant. Again I call TROLL TROLL TROLL!!!!! :eek:

[just4mefc]

I agree with you Mikey TROLL TROLL TROLL same sorry ass, really is so sad. I pity this troll. Not really more fun to laugh at then anything else :)

[fredtyg]

Danreidbarmi
Fredtyg on the other hand is a closeted gay man that calls himself bisexual.


I was waiting to hear him say that. Remember this guy always saying I'm a homo?

Whoever wrote earlier that he's back was right. This is the guy that keeps coming back and hassling everyone. Used to go by Horned Up Ram and some other names before he got booted.

[fredtyg]

Nope. Whoever picked up on it earlier on is right. Same writing style and same obnoxious comments.

[fredtyg]

Never said I wasn't.

[fredtyg]

Whatever. It's a signature issue with you that you've been bringing up for at least a year or two (or however long I've been with this site).

I prefer to think of myself as homosexual but that wouldn't explain the attraction I have to women.

[march hare]

Fred you're not attracted to women at all and you are a terrible liar.

You know that you're a gay man. Stop denying it to yourself and everyone else here.

You've even said how you don't have an attraction to women and don't masturbate or fantasize about women at all and this makes you gay.

You're lying about being bisexual and you are a gay man.

[danreidbarmi]

I only have a few minutes to report in this morning, so I'll try to be brief.

Communication has improved considerably, and I'm grateful for that. In fact, both my wife and I are going thru admitting a lot of difficult things both to ourselves and to each other. I feel that, regardless of the future of our marriage (which, at this point, has none) that we will come out of this stronger and even better friends.

As far as BiJesus (with the PhD in self-righteousness) is concerned, I quite enjoy the interchange with him. He is such an easy target, exposes his ignorance and lack of compassion in his every pontification. Unfortunately, every post is exactly the same pompous message, and that doesn't challenge me intellectually, thus making it unworthy of any response other than a sad chuckle over the sad fact that someone feels so justified in tearing others down, while never offering anything positive, supportive, or constructive. Only a very unhappy person would spend so much time lecturing absolute strangers on their moral misdeeds. (I am, however, pleased to learn that he is an agnostic and not a Bible-beater.)

Thanks to all of you caring folks for caring and contributing to this discussion. I am learning a great deal. It's been a real life-saver for me. And, even in the throes of the pain, life goes on.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Still waiting to hear what kind of PhD Hare has.

Personally, I think it's a red Hareing.

Pasa

[DuckiesDarling]

Still waiting to hear what kind of PhD Hare has.

Personally, I think it's a red Hareing.

Pasa

Hard for him to respond when it appears his posts got deleted by Drew..... and ROFLMAO I thought it was one in bovine scatology.

[fredtyg]

Hard for him to respond when it appears his posts got deleted by Drew..... and ROFLMAO I thought it was one in bovine scatology.

If so, let's see what name he shows up under next time. That was definitely the same person as Horned Up Ram, or whatever name he used.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Really? He didn't use 'closeted', or any of his other usual trademark quips. I didn't find March Hare's posts to be all that similar to HornedUpMyGayAZN.

Pasa

[darkeyes]

Really? He didn't use 'closeted', or any of his other usual trademark quips. I didn't find March Hare's posts to be all that similar to HornedUpMyGayAZN.

Pasa

I actually agree wivya Pasa for 1ce.. he wos rude, obnoxious an unpleasant.. but don think 'e wos a troll... certainly not THE troll... in short 'e wos an arse.. but did 'e deserve bannin? Soz.. nope.. ther 2 much bannin on this site an its gettin on me tits..

[Pasadenacpl2]

I don't think he was banned. I saw one of his posts that was removed by Drew, and then several more after that that are still there. So, don't get too riled too quickly, dear.

Pasa

[darkeyes]

I don't think he was banned. I saw one of his posts that was removed by Drew, and then several more after that that are still there. So, don't get too riled too quickly, dear.

Pasa

Don like censorship eitha... an am not riled.. a tadge irked mayb.. thot u wud b the last person 2 approve... howeva offensive they may or may notta been..

[Pasadenacpl2]

Meh...an armed society is a polite society. And deleting certain posts is a forum's way of being armed. I believe in the right to say what you want to say, free speech and all that. But I also believe in a proprietor's right to moderate traffic through his business, and in a society's right to tell people to be polite, or they will be ignored.

I think it's a balancing act, and one that trolls use against polite people.

Pasa

[tenni]

Well, this thread seems to have wandered from Dan's issue and even he has started another thread on his status.

I do not think that March Hare was really that rude...certainly, not in comparison to some other versions that people have associated this persona with. He was however perhaps harsh and maybe even cruel. Hell, so were a few others of the groupie "cheaters are nasty". One or two others began with harsh words but backed off quickly once some others stood up and said that they had crossed the line. March Hare did not though. He kept repeating his mantra.

So, darkeyes, I think if you look at this from the aspect of cruelty it is a bit more than censorship. I think that it is good that after Dan stated that he had confessed his cheating that there were posters who found the compassion to offer support and advice. Now, if a few others would tone down their "cheaters are nasty" statements and ridiculing cheater threads this site might become a more supportive site for bisexuals and not just for those who present themselves as "victims".

I watched a bit of what I assume is Drew removed March Hare's posts. What I noticed is that they seemed to be done one at a time. Gee, it seems like a lot of work for him to have to go through!!!

[darkeyes]

Meh...an armed society is a polite society. And deleting certain posts is a forum's way of being armed. I believe in the right to say what you want to say, free speech and all that. But I also believe in a proprietor's right to moderate traffic through his business, and in a society's right to tell people to be polite, or they will be ignored.

I think it's a balancing act, and one that trolls use against polite people.

Pasa

It is his right, I agree.. doesnt mean to say that he should use it willie nillie.. an unlike u..I actually think trolls have rights 2 and a place on sites such as this, and I don't mind them.. for sometimes they do provide us with some thought provoking stuff... actually think that ur oft repeated cliched statement bout an armed society is the biggest loada cobblers... its macho shite..

"Excuse me dear, this is a 45 magnum and if u dont take ur knickers down I'm going to blow ur head off. I'm going to do it anyway, and you won't much like what comes before, I apologise for that, but I can't have the authorities being told what I look like . "

"Thats all right, I understand. You will forgive me however if I do not concede your wish and fight a little for my honour and my life".

"Of course dear, that is your right."

[DuckiesDarling]

So the pacifist does understand the need to fight...interesting, was beginning to wonder :tong:

[darkeyes]

So the pacifist does understand the need to fight...interesting, was beginning to wonder :tong:

Not so as to take 'is life Darlin darlin'... hav always fought for that in wich I believe.. just not violently... ther r diff ways a fightin.in ne case.. wosnt talkin bout me.. wos talkin bout humanity in general as it is now..

..an in fact as I rite I am in the process a doin summat wich meets my criteria a how 2 fite... but thats anotha story wich may b a thread on Monday.....

[danreidbarmi]

Obviously I'm relatively new around here. I don't know all the regular personalities. BiJesus seems to be ubiquitous in these discussions. The sad thing is that he/she only has one, droning note to sing. It's such a sad and lonely song, and so very uninteresting. I think he/she quite enjoys stirring up such a shit storm and getting all this attention.

After all, he/she was able to identify the narcissist in me, so there must be a whole lot of egocentricity (and ego) in him/her. He/she must be a very sad and lonely person to feel so compelled to troll these discussions for those he/she can preach to. I hope that he/she someday discovers that you can never raise your own consciousness and find your higher self by tearing others down. In the meantime, he/she is a happy little piggy in shit, trying to pull every other piglet into the same stink hole. I, for one, am ready for a shower and a walk in the sunshine.

[void()]

Not tearing down, just constructive suggestion about writing.

"I hope that he/she someday discovers that you can never raise your own consciousness and find your higher self by tearing others down. "

If you don't know a gender you may try using they, them, the author and so on. It saves having to say it, or he/she all the time, or even s/he. Using s/he bugs me for some reason. It may not bug others, just saying.

Of course, it may be proper grammar. After all it sounds out of place, or stilted. Right, off to ponder bursitis a little. Darn shifty weather.

[danreidbarmi]

Not tearing down, just constructive suggestion about writing.

Gee, thanks for the literary tip. Learning more every day (articles, who would have thought they'd come in so handy?) Or, maybe I was making a point...