Are We Facing a Genderless Future?

[MarieDelta]

This spring, an Australian named Norrie May-Welby made headlines around the world as the world’s first legally genderless person when the New South Wales Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages sent the Sydney resident a certificate containing neither M for male or F for female.

For a few days, it appeared that the 48-year-old activist and performer had won a long legal battle to be declared “sex not specified”—the only category that felt right to this immigrant from Scotland. May-Welby’s journey of gender identity can only be characterized as a long and winding road. Registered male at birth, May-Welby began taking female hormones at 23 and had sex-change surgery to become a woman, but now doesn’t take any hormones and identifies as genderless. The prized piece of paper May-Welby sought is called a Recognised Details Certificate, and it’s given to immigrants to Australia who want to record a sex change.

But the victory was short-lived. After so much publicity, it was perhaps inevitable that the New South Wales government would backtrack—which it did a few days later, saying the registry didn’t have the legal authority to issue a certificate with anything but male or female. May-Welby (who now goes by the single name Norrie) has filed an appeal with the Australian Human Rights Commission.


Full article: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/16/life-without-gender.html

Do you think we are moving towards a fairly genderless future?

Or do you think perhaps that our gender needs a third option?

Personally, I dont know what business the government has in our pants anyways. Other than the typical government has its nose up your business, in every aspect of your life.

Is there any reason to list sex/gender on your drivers license, for example? Does that really affect your ability to operate a motor vehicle?

I suppose that as a form of identification, it stands as being part of the overall ID. Hair: Brown, Eyes: Blue, Sex:F But then, we do have pictures on our licenses, so do we really need all that? Again, government feels it needs to have all our details. In some ways I am just surprised they haven't started listing sexual orientaion. And when will they start listing DNA code samples? Fingerprints? Retina scans?

I suppose the time will come when the police oficer simply takes your fingerprint and has all your personal records availble.

(sigh)

[Pasadenacpl2]

Well, if we do go to finger print scans on ID, Muslim women can wear a burqua while presenting ID.

Zzziiing! ;)

I think the government tracks many things, gender just being one. Gender matters, so it makes sense. And please take thatin the way it was meant.

Pasa

[BiMale]

Hey MD; good discussion point. I don't think we facing a "genderless" future, but I think that in the future you will be able to select a gender and wear the clothes and live the lifestyle of that gender regardless of your actual sex. It's already happening really.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Oh good grief, how can he be genderless? Norrie has to identify with one or the other. Imagine the confusion at standing at one of those bathrooms that have men on one side and women on the other and he cant make his mind up on which to go into. Could get a little messy....
Cat, just being silly. ;)

[MarieDelta]

@ Cat - Unisex toilets honey.

@Pasa - But why other than the fact that they're just being officiously official?

[citystyleguy]

a genderliess future, hardly! there are way too many of us that enjoy what we are, while there is now the medical processes that allow change for those who are not what their physical beings dictate. so genderless may be an alternative that will be simply yet another possibility.

[darkeyes]

I doubt we will ever have a genderless future Marie.. there may be and is some blurring around the edges, and there will be some increase in that blurring, but gender will always matter and mark us out as who we are.. like so many things which mark us out as people, we surrender that at our peril

..but the more important point you make is information governments hold and wish to hold.. thank God the ID card idea is being abandoned here (for now.. I am unconvinced it will be for long)...what was proposed there was an appalling abuse of Government power and a huge move toward the big brother state, and the bastards were making us pay for the privilege... great way of keeping tabs on our lives.. its not that Governments are officiously official.. they are but what they want such information for is much more sinister than that... but of course there are those who like that idea and who don't think we should retain our independence and liberty..those that think we should sacrifice our freedoms to "retain" them.. that the state has the right to know just how often we scratch our arse and where we have plooks.. ID, at least official state sponsored ID, which contains so much of our personal information and can be used to spy on us and even track our movements is something all free minded believers in liberty should oppose.. even in times of stress and conflict..

[Pasadenacpl2]

@ Cat - Unisex toilets honey.

@Pasa - But why other than the fact that they're just being officiously official?

I don't understand the question. Not dodging, I just want to make sure I know what is being asked before I answer.

Pasa

[MarieDelta]

Why should gender matter to the government? If they can ID me accurately without it, why should it matter? Other than it being "officially official" seems like once they have your picture, maybe even your fingerprint (Colorado Drivers License requires a fingerprint scan.) Why should your gender (sex actually, but thats another argument) matter?

Not only that its based only on what the Dr saw when you were born, it doesnt even cover all those options, IMO.

A case could be made, for intersexed, genderqueer, and for trans people in transition, that we need a third designate.

[Long Duck Dong]

the trouble is that we are facing a great deal of variables and extra labels just cos somebody decides they do not want to * fit in *.... they want to stand out .....

hell I am pansexual, intersexed, mentally ill, ex serviceman, ex criminal, monogamy minded, asexual natured, two spirited, genetically unique, mentally gifted, spiritually aware, european, scottish descent male etc etc etc etc etc......

why can I just not be one of the crowd ??????

the reason is that people want to be one of the crowd, but have their differences recognized, without making them stand out from the crowd.....

if people want to be genderless,... I could not care less..... but I would fight like hell to avoid being put in a genderless category just cos I was born intersex......
for all intents and purposes, I am a male and I am fine with that label......

its time that people start to realise that the problem is not how people see themselves, but that they want the system changed to match what they want to see for themselves....... and that is creating more and more problems.....

the biggest mistake the human race has made, is crossed the line from basic human rights to * my rights * cos every body thinks that their rights should be addressed as a unique case..... and different rules and laws should apply to them and that the rest of the world should adjust......
the trouble with too many rules and laws, is you will get to the point that breathing will mean you are breaking a rule somewhere in the world.....cos its a violation of the rights of people that believe they breath argon gas, not oxygen and oxygen breathers are offensive to them

[darkeyes]

It was argued here during the big barney about the issuing of state id cards that having all that vast information about us in a single place would enable government to more accurately supply the proper balance in things like health services to people.. they would be able to see from area to area at a glance what was needed to better supply the services our taxes pay for.. to some degree I understand that, yet the information they required is personal to us as individuals and could be readily accessed by central government and its agencies be they scrupulous or unscrupulous.. that it is held elsewhere is not the point, what matters is how much we think the government should be able to access easily such personal information if at all.. the census which is held every 10 years with personal details kept kept confidential for a century, can easily do the same job government wanted for ID cards regarding logistics.. governments and local government, universities and many other institutions carry out more studies into how we live and feel, where our society is headed, that personal information of the kind governments want it for is made substantially redundant, for like an opinion poll, unless government wants it for security purposes and all the ramifications of that, it becomes almost meaningless..

[MarieDelta]

why can I just not be one of the crowd ??????

\

“Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else” -Alison Boulter

[darkeyes]

“Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else” -Alison Boulter

..one reason governments.. odious and otherwise wish to keep tabs on people is because so many just wish "to be one of the crowd".. official paranoia makes it impossible to believe that for the most part people just want to be left alone to live very ordinary and decent lives.. because a relative few wish not to live such lives within that group which covers most people, they feel they have to know everything about us from the colour of our skin, to our DNA, have our fingerprints, our biometric eye imprint, our gender, sexuality, and other private proclivities and personal details which are quite simply none of their business.. they are our business and the business of anyone we allow to have this inormation..

We are all unique and that uniqueness is our affair until such times as we do something which makes it their affair... what that may be is open to debate, but in essence, they should keep out and have nothing which in the everyday business of running a country they have any business whatsoever..

That many wish to, and do stand out from the crowd makes it easy for the authorities, and such people have personal information which, just like personal information on anyone else which is none of the business of the state.. I am not paranoid in the least but I do believe it healthy always to be suspicious of the forces of the state and of the reasons they go about their business.. my country is currently, even allowing for the recent change of government a relatively liberal representative democracy whose citizens have much liberty and rights which they surrender at their peril.. but no state is ever entirely free of dictatorial and authoritarian measures about which we should all be concerned.. and no state is immune to changing from liberal democracy to being a totalitarian dictatorship whose citizens are no longer allowed any control over their lives and liberties.. I do not believe that we should make it easy for the state to oppress us or simply to misuse information which belongs to us... the state is supposed to be our servant... it isn't true, but I see no reason to give it a free ride...:)

[void()]

Do you think we are moving towards a fairly genderless future?

We already have androgyny in our society at large. There are few if any real gender boundaries left us. So, yes, I think we are moving in that direction.

Or do you think perhaps that our gender needs a third option?

Androgyny is already here, sweet one. There doesn't need to be a third option, it exists already.

Is there any reason to list sex/gender on your drivers license, for example? Does that really
affect your ability to operate a motor vehicle?

I'm not aware of gender affecting, or effecting one's ability to do, or not do anything. Then again I'm not a god, nor do I pretend to be.


I suppose the time will come when the police oficer simply takes your fingerprint and has all your personal records availble.


No, I think in the near future we'll see a vast implementation of radio-frequency identification used. Lots of whispers been going on recently over it. And it really is just a matter of time before we get hit with martial law globally. Then, you can be scanned simply by radio waves. Everyone will probably have their own frequency. I plan to broadcast Twisted Sister's _We're Not Gonna Take It_ constantly, just to piss 'em off.

(I nominate that song as our National Anthem by the way. Star Spangled Banner just doesn't really say to the world "Hey, I'm American and I don't take any shit!" But this song does and then some.)

If they can use RFID, just a small tech jump to use the same radio waves to implant thoughts, read thoughts. Electrical current produces ions, which in turn can be assimilated into radio waves. Our brains create electrical currents. Recall subliminal advertising? There you are, luv, have a cookie whilst we rape you. "Song remains the same."

So, of course even whilst decrying a new anthem, it is seen they plan to make us all die on our bellies as dogs. "Fuck the Bozos!"

[darkeyes]

Do you think we are moving towards a fairly genderless future?

We already have androgyny in our society at large. There are few if any real gender boundaries left us. So, yes, I think we are moving in that direction.

Or do you think perhaps that our gender needs a third option?

Androgyny is already here, sweet one. There doesn't need to be a third option, it exists already.

Is there any reason to list sex/gender on your drivers license, for example? Does that really
affect your ability to operate a motor vehicle?

I'm not aware of gender affecting, or effecting one's ability to do, or not do anything. Then again I'm not a god, nor do I pretend to be.


I suppose the time will come when the police oficer simply takes your fingerprint and has all your personal records availble.


No, I think in the near future we'll see a vast implementation of radio-frequency identification used. Lots of whispers been going on recently over it. And it really is just a matter of time before we get hit with martial law globally. Then, you can be scanned simply by radio waves. Everyone will probably have their own frequency. I plan to broadcast Twisted Sister's _We're Not Gonna Take It_ constantly, just to piss 'em off.

(I nominate that song as our National Anthem by the way. Star Spangled Banner just doesn't really say to the world "Hey, I'm American and I don't take any shit!" But this song does and then some.)

If they can use RFID, just a small tech jump to use the same radio waves to implant thoughts, read thoughts. Electrical current produces ions, which in turn can be assimilated into radio waves. Our brains create electrical currents. Recall subliminal advertising? There you are, luv, have a cookie whilst we rape you. "Song remains the same."

So, of course even whilst decrying a new anthem, it is seen they plan to make us all die on our bellies as dogs. "Fuck the Bozos!"

Don' u worry Voidie.. will neva come...not absolutely.. not unless we go down Mao's road.. but in the west we r much 2 individualistic an free spirited an will only go so far down that road... how bloody dull it wud b.. how bloody dull we wud b...am tryin 2 imagine me an me m8's all goin down a club on a saturday nite wearin same androgenous clobber an bumpin inta 700 otha girls an guys all dressed similarly.. nope..will nev happen.. or if it dus me will b dead unda the steamroller of androgeny... gender is and always will b.. now me knos androgeny is bout much more than fashion an dress.. an we hav moved sum way 2 overlappin the masculine an feminine roles.. an long may that continue.. but nope.. absolute androgeny will neva b... we r much much 2 wise...:)

[void()]

"we r much much 2 wise"

Even with all that wisdom we can not explain gravity or stupidity. Both are inevitable states and forces, which oft foul it all. Not attempting pessimism but observing the obvious aloud.

[darkeyes]

"we r much much 2 wise"

Even with all that wisdom we can not explain gravity or stupidity. Both are inevitable states and forces, which oft foul it all. Not attempting pessimism but observing the obvious aloud.

Humanity isn't wise about everything Voidie sadly.. I almost added "as well as too individualistic and too vain.. ".. I think there is truth in that too...

..and its not pessimism, hun.. merely realistic..:)