I hate monogamy, part II

[kcatthegreat]

I'm going to completely rephrase things...

I am a female in a wonderful relationship with a wonderful man and I would never ever EVER consider leaving him. Early in our relationship I explained to him that I don't like monogamy and we have always made it work. He has said that if I really need to have sex outside of our marriage, I can. However I have never done this because I love him very much and I am concerned that it would adversely affect our relationship.

However, I have occasionally flirted with other men and shown interest in sleeping with them, though I have never actually done it. (I always stop the flirtation before it gets to that point.) When I show interest in sleeping with people outside of the marriage, people act like I don't love my husband. They think I don't have a good relationship or that he is bad in bed.

This just isn't true. He is by far the best lover and the best man I could ever hope to have. I just like sex and I think monogamy is boring (always have, always will). It hurts me when people think that I don't love my husband. I get frustrated and I wish they understood that it is possible to love one person and still desire sex with other people.

It's also completely a two-way street. I would have no problem at all with him having sex outside of our marriage. (In fact, I offered to get him a hooker for a birthday present, but he declined.) I am open to threesomes with other women and all sorts of other things that most women would have a problem with, so it's not like there are no advantages for my husband.

I just wish people understood that polyamory doesn't mean I don't love my man! That's the only reason I hate monogamy, because people don't seem to understand anyone that doesn't want to be monogamous.

[Annika L]

Hi kcat,

I get what you're saying (in fact, I got it the first time you said it).

In these forums, monogamy seems to be a hot-button issue for lots of people. Just so you get the context, in the past year, we've had several threads about monogamy, polyamory, polyfidelity, cheating, and other related topics...some of these have been very recent. And disappointingly people don't seem able to discuss the topic rationally...no matter what is said at the outset, the whole things bogs down into a fight every time. The vast majority seem to approach the topic pretty defensively, assuming that their feelings or lifestyle are under attack just by *somebody else* discussing the topic. Interesting statement on society and values, really, but sad for a forum like this.

I think I feel pretty much as you do. Monogamy is fine for those for whom it works. Polywhichever is fine for those for whom it works. I am in a longstanding and longterm relationship with an incredible woman with whom I have no problem. But I find that my drives toward intimacy put me in places where the inability to be sexually flexible can be awkward, uncomfortable, or just limiting. I will not cheat, but I do feel that for me, a monogamous relationship is unnecessarily limiting...it's what I've got, but that doesn't mean it always has to be this way. And the fact that I feel this way does not mean that anything is lacking in my relationship with my partner...I am just capable of more love.

I just wanted you to know that someone gets it and feels similarly.

[just4mefc]

Hi kcat,

I get what you're saying (in fact, I got it the first time you said it).

In these forums, monogamy seems to be a hot-button issue for lots of people. Just so you get the context, in the past year, we've had several threads about monogamy, polyamory, polyfidelity, cheating, and other related topics...some of these have been very recent. And disappointingly people don't seem able to discuss the topic rationally...no matter what is said at the outset, the whole things bogs down into a fight every time. The vast majority seem to approach the topic pretty defensively, assuming that their feelings or lifestyle are under attack just by *somebody else* discussing the topic. Interesting statement on society and values, really, but sad for a forum like this.

I think I feel pretty much as you do. Monogamy is fine for those for whom it works. Polywhichever is fine for those for whom it works. I am in a longstanding and longterm relationship with an incredible woman with whom I have no problem. But I find that my drives toward intimacy put me in places where the inability to be sexually flexible can be awkward, uncomfortable, or just limiting. I will not cheat, but I do feel that for me, a monogamous relationship is unnecessarily limiting...it's what I've got, but that doesn't mean it always has to be this way. And the fact that I feel this way does not mean that anything is lacking in my relationship with my partner...I am just capable of more love.

I just wanted you to know that someone gets it and feels similarly.

Well said, Annika.

I for one am monogamous from total choice and almost by accident. We just happen to be here right now. I too get it and got it when first stated. I just happen to be monogamous but totally understand that it can be limiting. I love sex and could sleep with lots of people and never have it phase the love for my wife. I currently have no problem with her sleeping with anyone male or female. I am secure in our love and no longer fear she might leave me for someone better. The main issue for me is inclusion. By inclusion I simply mean knowledge that it is happening. Now if I were to watch or participate that would be fun too ;)

I think we get all riled up on the topic from simple fear. Of course on your last post there was one person who slammed you that I am certain is a new name for an old troll. So throw those comments out the window.

[Yoyome100]

KCat,
Some folks have a hard time wrapping their mind around the idea of Polyamory. There are those of us out here who do understand.:2cents:

[ninetythree]

Some folks have a hard time wrapping their mind around the idea of Polyamory. There are those of us out here who do understand.:2cents:

I am a husband in a monogamous relationship of 20-plus years who recently told his straight wife he's bisexual. I've never acted on it.

One of the reasons non-monogamy is a hot button, at least for me, is that I'm afraid that if I gave up monogamy even with the prior approval of my wife, I would end up blowing up my marriage. I trust monogamy because I was raised to believe in it and have lived it for 20 years. I don't know about people who have lived non-monogamy. If anyone in my life is living that way, they're keeping it secret for fear of the kind of reaction KC describes in this post.

[TamLin]

Your sex life is an entirely private matter, and the only people whose business it is or who are in any position to judge are you, your husband, and whoever other many people are involved. Other people's opinions on whether your non-monogamy leanings mean that you love your husband less or make your marriage less significant are not only unimportant, those opinions shouldn't exist in the first place because it's simply none of their damn business.

Besides, from the way you tell it, it sounds like you're probably more faithful to your marriage than the scores of lip-service couples out there who put up a front of being monogamous and then go sneaking around behind each other's backs. There's a whole lot of glasses houses in the world, all this stone throwing can't be wise.

[Yoyome100]

I am a husband in a monogamous relationship of 20-plus years who recently told his straight wife he's bisexual. I've never acted on it.

One of the reasons non-monogamy is a hot button, at least for me, is that I'm afraid that if I gave up monogamy even with the prior approval of my wife, I would end up blowing up my marriage. I trust monogamy because I was raised to believe in it and have lived it for 20 years. I don't know about people who have lived non-monogamy. If anyone in my life is living that way, they're keeping it secret for fear of the kind of reaction KC describes in this post.

This is a topic to be discussed prior to marriage. Poly or Mono both fail. Choosing one or the other will not automatically guaranty happiness nor will indicate that one is automatically unhappy in either type of relationship. The problem is a lack of desire of folks to listen to and ask questions instead of assuming and judging. This is a problem with society today and not just on the topic of sex. I'm not saying you are the "assuming and judging" type since I sense you were just pointing out possible reasons for the reaction.

How did your wife take it?

Good luck to all in whatever relationships you choose,

[ninetythree]

How did your wife take it?

My wife took it amazingly well. She isn't grossed out by the idea of two men having sex, which I feared, and we've incorporated it into our sex life in amazing ways.

There's a bit of insecurity from her that I will leave someday because of it, but overall it was foolish of me not to tell her sooner. She deserved to know the whole me. I did, too.

[Yoyome100]

I am a husband in a monogamous relationship of 20-plus years who recently told his straight wife he's bisexual. I've never acted on it.

One of the reasons non-monogamy is a hot button, at least for me, is that I'm afraid that if I gave up monogamy even with the prior approval of my wife, I would end up blowing up my marriage. I trust monogamy because I was raised to believe in it and have lived it for 20 years. I don't know about people who have lived non-monogamy. If anyone in my life is living that way, they're keeping it secret for fear of the kind of reaction KC describes in this post.


My wife took it amazingly well. She isn't grossed out by the idea of two men having sex, which I feared, and we've incorporated it into our sex life in amazing ways.

There's a bit of insecurity from her that I will leave someday because of it, but overall it was foolish of me not to tell her sooner. She deserved to know the whole me. I did, too.

I wish you both much happiness:)

[Long Duck Dong]

polyanything.... can be sexual, communal, supportive etc..... there is more levels to it, in the same way there is more levels to a person than sex and emotions.....

yes there is sexual satisfaction and enjoyment with others.... but thats the obvious aspect .... there can be underlaying aspects to it to.... like its nice to have the knowledge that our partners are not the only people that find us attractive...... and that others would love to get to know us better as people..... and well we will get the people that just want us in bed... there are others that will remember our names a hour later.......

there can also be the * hunted and caught * aspect, the thrill of the chase.... and while it can end up in sex... its nice to know that we can * hunt * with the best of them.... its similar to the * cougar * women...

but if we put the sex aside for a moment..... there is something else that often gets over looked...... and that is knowing people beyond the facade that they show the world..... as inside us there is other secrets and aspects that are often missed or unseen, that make us into the people we are.....

doing the hook ups and casual sex thing, we often doesn't reveal the * secret * us to the world..... yet in a poly relationship.... we can get to see and know the real person behind the persona.... we can get to know people on a level that can be very beneficial.... and that is similar to the clan aspect that jean auel writes about in the earths children book series......

now while I talk about being monogamous, I am referring to my relationship status..... but I have other aspects of myself that can not be monogamised
and the same thing is found in poly people, specially the ones in poly relationships......
think of it as the spiderweb effect...... a group of 4 people in a poly relationship... they are all interconnected on multiple levels.... not just on a sex and love level....... they become a multi faceted support, love, advice, sharing, cooking and cleaning unit.... and able to connect together like building blocks......

we as monogamous people, can do the same thing.... we just do not do it on a sexual level.... but we can become part of a emotional and mental spiderweb......we do it with our friends and loved ones...... and it doesn't mean that we do not love other people as well as our partners.... its just that we do not express ourselves freely sexually......

with people that struggle with monogamy, yet also struggle with emotionally connecting with others outside of the relationship...... there are times that their sexual expression can be a part of other aspects and issues.....
that is not to say that people in open relationships are fucked up messes.... cos thats not true.... some are... many are not.....

its simply a case of some people connect better with others outside of a relationship, on a sexual level, some do it on the emotional level, some on the mental level.... some on a partnership level.... some do the whole lot.......

some are reversed, they can do the whole love, caring, support, advice cooking and cleaning aspects with one partner only..... yet they connect with others sexually and that can lead to the situation of people in relationships being fulfilled totally, but seeking the sexual freedom......

as katthegreat says.... she loves her partner, they have a good and strong relationship..... but she connects with others on a sexual level.....
a emotional / mental and sexual partner level connection.... but its just not connecting sexual on all levels.... there is a loose strand of the spiders web.....and nothing for it to attach to....

so there is more to monogamy and poly anything, than just sex...... one hell of a sight more....... and monogamy can be sexually limited, but there is more to people than sex.......
when monogamy and monogamous people are judged, we are judged according to sex..... not the rest of who we are and what we are.... but sex....
and the same with poly people..... they are seen as people with multi sexual partners.......

however the people that judge us purely on sex.... say a lot more about themselves than what they realise........

I would rather be monogamous and embracing everybody that is monogamous and polyanthing........ than be a person that judges everybody based around who is getting some and with how many
and I will stand beside the ones like katthegreat and the others.... that are acknowledging that while they have great relationships and are loved and love equally... that the spiderweb strand of sex is just floating free in the wind
cos there is more to us all than who we are fucking.....

[citystyleguy]

...still going to stay with my statment back in part I; :cool:

[sammie19]

I have tried to write this post several times but it never looks right. It says something about me I do not intend it to say. Kcats world reminds me of my own in so many ways. There are glaring differences but the similarity is there plain to see.

I live with and am in love with my partner and I am unable to imagine my life without her. It fills me with dread the thought that she was not there. We have been lovers since I was still at High School, but I have loved her since I was a very small child.

We are now in a Civil Union, a marriage, and I intend that it shall always be that way. When we could finally open our relationship to the world I thought it was all I wanted. I had lived a very exciting teenage life and had my share of other lovers of my own age principally of both sexes, but older as well, since I am particularly attracted to older women. I had my partners blessing at this time but when we began living together we agreed we be monogamous. It was what I wanted as well as she, or so I believed at the time.

Now, just a few years down the road, and I find myself increasingly being attracted to men once again, and missing every spect of the sexual experience of a man in my bed or anywhere else the mood takes us. I had never lost my attraction to them but felt I could live without them in my life. I miss their touch, their firmness of body, their scent and taste. The roughness of it all and the gentleness they could bring.

My attraction for my own sex has never gone or diminished but this too I felt no need of since my partner more than filled my needs when it comes to sex. Now I find myself attracted to another older woman, a friend, and can't help myself. I want her like no other woman other than my partner. It feels so different but the attraction is so strong I am giddy sometimes when we are in close proximity. I fantasise in ways I have not fantasised since before Meg and I set up home.

I am not restrained in any way at home from going out with friends and enjoying myself, and this I do every few weeks. She trusts me because I gave my promise. I have been sorely tempted to stray on more than one occasion and in fact almost did so once but thankfully my promise came back to me ringing in my ears.

None of what I have said means I love Meg any the less. I want to live and grow old with her, and will love her until the day I die, but there is no doubt that my promise is creating strains which I would rather were not there. My need for opening up our relationship is stretching things and I will not open up to my partner and tell her how I feel and that I want to change the agreement. I surrendered that right when I gave my promise of fidelity.

Meg knows I am attracted to other people, as she is herself. But we gave to each other a solemn promise to forego others and while she seems to find it easy, I do not and am finding it much less easy with every passing day.

However, a promise given is a promise to keep and I do intend to keep it. There are always times and circumstances when this could prove impossible, and I dread that day should it ever come.

[just4mefc]

I have tried to write this post several times but it never looks right. It says something about me I do not intend it to say. Kcats world reminds me of my own in so many ways. There are glaring differences but the similarity is there plain to see.

I live with and am in love with my partner and I am unable to imagine my life without her. It fills me with dread the thought that she was not there. We have been lovers since I was still at High School, but I have loved her since I was a very small child.

We are now in a Civil Union, a marriage, and I intend that it shall always be that way. When we could finally open our relationship to the world I thought it was all I wanted. I had lived a very exciting teenage life and had my share of other lovers of my own age principally of both sexes, but older as well, since I am particularly attracted to older women. I had my partners blessing at this time but when we began living together we agreed we be monogamous. It was what I wanted as well as she, or so I believed at the time.

Now, just a few years down the road, and I find myself increasingly being attracted to men once again, and missing every spect of the sexual experience of a man in my bed or anywhere else the mood takes us. I had never lost my attraction to them but felt I could live without them in my life. I miss their touch, their firmness of body, their scent and taste. The roughness of it all and the gentleness they could bring.

My attraction for my own sex has never gone or diminished but this too I felt no need of since my partner more than filled my needs when it comes to sex. Now I find myself attracted to another older woman, a friend, and can't help myself. I want her like no other woman other than my partner. It feels so different but the attraction is so strong I am giddy sometimes when we are in close proximity. I fantasise in ways I have not fantasised since before Meg and I set up home.

I am not restrained in any way at home from going out with friends and enjoying myself, and this I do every few weeks. She trusts me because I gave my promise. I have been sorely tempted to stray on more than one occasion and in fact almost did so once but thankfully my promise came back to me ringing in my ears.

None of what I have said means I love Meg any the less. I want to live and grow old with her, and will love her until the day I die, but there is no doubt that my promise is creating strains which I would rather were not there. My need for opening up our relationship is stretching things and I will not open up to my partner and tell her how I feel and that I want to change the agreement. I surrendered that right when I gave my promise of fidelity.

Meg knows I am attracted to other people, as she is herself. But we gave to each other a solemn promise to forego others and while she seems to find it easy, I do not and am finding it much less easy with every passing day.

However, a promise given is a promise to keep and I do intend to keep it. There are always times and circumstances when this could prove impossible, and I dread that day should it ever come.

Sammie back when I would try to stay monogamous I would fail because I was only doing it for them. One time I even went over to someones house to explain that I was loyal and their teasing was really not appropriate, then after we had sex, I said that can never happen again... arghhh. Now I am monogamous for me. I still have crushes on occasion (although very infrequent these days) but now if I feel an urge I share it with her. This keeps the energy at bay. Sort of a relief valve if you will. The issue is not the crushes, the issues always seem to grow as we deny they exists. Once I tell my partner I am having a bit of a crush there is an uncomfortable moment but by being open and honest with my wife, she feels included and cared for. Also by removing the hidden energy I find the drive just about dis-appears. I know no one wants to hear the words "talk to your spouse/partner" but it certainly does work for me. :2cents:

[tenni]

Just4 re your post #13

I think what you described is very insightful and goes quite a bit further than the general "talk to your partner" comments. You are a rather extraordinary man who has learned and grown so much from his experiences as seems has your wife. Thanks for sharing.

I was reflecting on what you wrote and recalling a recent conversation with a man who was describing part of his life experiences. The man is around 40 and so has experienced a few relationships. He is just an average working class man with little formal education but he seems to have some interesting insights. I may get attacked for writing my thoughts but .... The man spoke to me about his relationship with his wife and a few other women. There is a shift in relationships between men and women in these past few generations. I'm not sure if the media or ? have created some expectations and perceptions that may not be easy for the "average person" to meet. I'm afraid that most people may not have the insights and skills to face such disclosures that you mention. I think that it is absolutely an uplifting concept that you wrote about but even with counsellors I suspect that many of us might find it difficult to reach the type of relationship that you have with your wife.

That is not to write that it is impossible but very difficult. Thanks for sharing details beyond just posting "talk to your partner".

Opps I somehow left out the details that he disclosed but you get the drift.

[just4mefc]

Just4 re your post #13

I think what you described is very insightful and goes quite a bit further than the general "talk to your partner" comments. You are a rather extraordinary man who has learned and grown so much from his experiences as seems has your wife. Thanks for sharing.

I was reflecting on what you wrote and recalling a recent conversation with a man who was describing part of his life experiences. The man is around 40 and so has experienced a few relationships. He is just an average working class man with little formal education but he seems to have some interesting insights. I may get attacked for writing my thoughts but .... The man spoke to me about his relationship with his wife and a few other women. There is a shift in relationships between men and women in these past few generations. I'm not sure if the media or ? have created some expectations and perceptions that may not be easy for the "average person" to meet. I'm afraid that most people may not have the insights and skills to face such disclosures that you mention. I think that it is absolutely an uplifting concept that you wrote about but even with counsellors I suspect that many of us might find it difficult to reach the type of relationship that you have with your wife.

That is not to write that it is impossible but very difficult. Thanks for sharing details beyond just posting "talk to your partner".

Opps I somehow left out the details that he disclosed but you get the drift.

Not so sure I am worthy of such praise, but I thank you whole heartedly. I am so lucky to have found such an amazing wife. In all honesty, I doubt I would have ever come to know my true self if not for her! I said at our wedding she was NOT a dream come true, for I never could have imagined a match like her!

"I'm afraid that most people may not have the insights and skills to face such disclosures that you mention..." ~Tenni

Interesting point, it really is an acquired skill. One that took small steps of trust and an internal commitment to stay the course even when it hurt. Perhaps it is more then luck? Still trying to figure out how we got here. Certainly my failures along the way were part of my growth.

I do know from much experience that relationships are so damn scary. We want to keep what we have, even if it is not right. The fear of them looking at us with that "disgust face" is enormous. So when I was younger I would simply try to be "more committed" rather then be honest with a partner or myself. Speaking only for myself and not suggesting anything for another's life, the risk of loss was/is worth it. This has not been easy at all. But in my opinion few things of great reward ever come without risk and often failure. Even with all the connection and reward I have experienced with my wife, I still get nervous when I have to open up about something that might scare or hurt her. So while I often say "talk to your partner..." or "cheating is the wrong way to go..." I don't actually judge anyone who ignores my advise. I simply try to point out that being those things for ones self has the potential for huge rewards.

[sammie19]

Sammie back when I would try to stay monogamous I would fail because I was only doing it for them. One time I even went over to someones house to explain that I was loyal and their teasing was really not appropriate, then after we had sex, I said that can never happen again... arghhh. Now I am monogamous for me. I still have crushes on occasion (although very infrequent these days) but now if I feel an urge I share it with her. This keeps the energy at bay. Sort of a relief valve if you will. The issue is not the crushes, the issues always seem to grow as we deny they exists. Once I tell my partner I am having a bit of a crush there is an uncomfortable moment but by being open and honest with my wife, she feels included and cared for. Also by removing the hidden energy I find the drive just about dis-appears. I know no one wants to hear the words "talk to your spouse/partner" but it certainly does work for me. :2cents:

I am trying as hard as I can to stay monogamous for me as well as Meg. For her because she wants me to, and me because I am not acustomed to breaking promises and it is the right thing to do. Once made, I believe we should honour a promise no matter how difficult, and if made to the one we love it should be doubly so. I have seen the wreckage and pain broken promises bring, and have been at the blunt end of others breaking them to me.

We do talk about who we are attracted to and even what we would like to do. It doesn't help much except in the immediate to very short term, but when I am alone things do get to me and that is just the way I am. I'm not miserable at all, simpy dreamy and a lot lustful wishing what I will never be.

[TamLin]

While this may not be particularly useful in any practical way, I do think it's worth reflecting on the fact that this is simply a part of marriage and something most every couple has to deal with sooner or later. At some point in any relationship, gay, straight or bi-inclusive, one partner or the other is going to feel attracted to a person outside that relationship. What you're suffering from is simply human nature.