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Doggie_Wood
Jul 14, 2010, 8:50 PM
"A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

The U.S. government has a history of commandeering military technology for use against Americans. We saw this happen with tear gas, Tasers, and sound cannons, all of which were first used on the battlefield before being deployed against civilians at home. Now the drones - pilotless, remote-controlled aircraft that have been used in Iraq and Afghanistan - are coming home to roost.

Drones, a $2-billion cornerstone of the Obama administration's war efforts, have increasingly found favor with both military and-law enforcement officials. "The more we have used them," stated Defense Secretary Robert Gates, "the more we have identified their potential in a broader and broader set of circumstances."

Now the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is facing mounting pressure from state governments and localities to issue flying rights for a range of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to carry out civilian and law-enforcement activities. As the Associated Press reports, "Tornado researchers want to send them into storms to gather data. Energy companies want to use them to monitor pipelines. State police hope to send them up to capture images of speeding cars' license plates. Local police envision using them to track fleeing suspects." Unfortunately, to a drone, everyone is a suspect because drone technology makes no distinction between the law-abiding individual and the suspect. Everyone gets monitored, photographed, tracked, and targeted.

The FAA, citing concerns over the need to regulate air traffic and establish anti-collision rules for the aircrafts and their operators, has thus far been reluctant to grant broad approval for the use of UAVs in American airspace. However, unbeknownst to most Americans, remote-controlled aircraft have been employed domestically for years now. They were first used as a national-security tool for patrolling America's borders and then as a means of monitoring citizens. For example, back in 2006, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department was testing out a SkySeer drone for use in police work. With a 6.5-foot wingspan, the lightweight SkySeer can be folded up like a kite and stored in a shoulder pack. At 250 feet, it can barely be seen with the naked eye.

As another news story that same year reported: "One North Carolina county is using a UAV equipped with low-light and infrared cameras to keep watch on its citizens. The aircraft has been dispatched to monitor gatherings of motorcycle riders at the Gaston County fairgrounds from just a few hundred feet in the air - close enough to identify faces - and many more uses, such as the aerial detection of marijuana fields, are planned." In 2007, insect-like drones were seen hovering over political rallies in New York and Washington, seemingly spying on protesters. An eyewitness reported that the drones "looked kind of like dragonflies or little helicopters."

Drone technology has advanced dramatically in the ensuing years, with surveillance drones getting smaller, more sophisticated, and more lethal with each evolution. Modeling their prototype for a single-winged rotorcraft on the maple seed's unique design, aerospace-engineering students at the University of Maryland have created the world's smallest controllable surveillance drones, capable of hovering to record conversations or movements of citizens.
Thus far, the domestic use of drones has been primarily for surveillance purposes and, as far as we know, has been limited in scope. Eventually, however, police departments and intelligence agencies will make drones a routine part of their operations. However, you can be sure they won't limit themselves to just surveillance.

Police today use whatever tools are at their disposal in order to anticipate and forestall crime. This means employing technology to attain total control. Technology, which functions without discrimination because it exists without discrimination, tends to be applied everywhere it can be applied. Thus, the logical aim of technologically equipped police who operate as technicians must be control, containment, and eventually restriction of freedom.

In this way, under the guise of keeping Americans safe and controlled, airborne drones will have to be equipped with an assortment of lethal and nonlethal weapons in order to effectuate control of citizens on the ground. The arsenal of nonlethal weapons will likely include Long Range Acoustic Devices (LRADs), which are used to break up protests or riots by sending a piercing sound into crowds and can cause serious hearing damage; high-intensity strobe lights, which can cause dizziness, disorientation, and loss of balance and make it virtually impossible to run away; and Tasers, which administer a powerful electric shock.

Since June 2001, more than 350 people - including women, children and elderly individuals - have died in the U.S. after being shocked with "nonlethal" Tasers. "Imagine how incidents would skyrocket," notes Paul Joseph Watson for PrisonPlanet.com, "once the personal element of using a Taser is removed and they are strapped to marauding surveillance drones, eliminating any responsibility for deaths and injuries that occur.

"Also available to police," writes Watson, "will be a drone that can fire tear gas as well as rubber pellets to disperse anyone still living under the delusion that they were born in a democratic country." In fact, the French company Tecknisolar Seni has built a drone armed with a double-barreled 44-millimeter Flash-Ball gun. The one-kilo Flash-Ball resembles a large-caliber handgun and fires so-called nonlethal rounds, including tear gas and rubber impact rounds to bring down a suspect. Despite being labeled a "nonlethal weapon," this, too, is not without its dangers. As David Hambling writes for Wired News, "Like other impact rounds, the Flash-Ball is meant to be aimed at the body - firing from a remote, flying platform is likely to increase the risk of head injury."

One thing is clear: While the idea of airborne drones policing America's streets may seem far-fetched, like something out of a sci-fi movie, it is no longer in the realm of the impossible. Now, it's just a matter of how soon you can expect them to be patrolling your own neighborhood. The crucial question, however, is whether Americans will be able to limit the government's use of such surveillance tools or whether we will be caught in an electronic nightmare from which there is no escape.

Constitutional attorney and author John W. Whitehead is founder and president of The Rutherford Institute. His book The Change Manifesto is available in bookstores and online. He can be contacted at johnw@rutherford.org . Information about The Rutherford Institute is available at Rutherford.org.

source: www:rivercityreader.com

Long Duck Dong
Jul 14, 2010, 9:28 PM
lol democratic society ???? I have not see the right to break the law and commit crimes listed as part of the us constitution....lol

its a catch 22.... people want to live in a safe society... but they do not want to live in a society where things are done to ensure their safety as best, possible in a society that is falling apart

my advice.... move to the arctic lol

criminals will hide behind the same laws we want to hide behind ourselves....

recently in nz, the cops nailed a pedophile mastermind with one of the largest and hardest to break, child porn rings.... 3 years it took them to nail the bastard... but they had to work inside the laws protecting this guys rights to privacy, in order to nail him...... yet, in 3 years they knew the number of items traded ran into the 10's of millions.....

yes the same laws we want to protect us, protect the criminals we do not want in our society......

as long as people have rights, criminals will abuse those rights.... and law enforcement will have to play by the rules in order to catch the rule breakers....

if the rights to privacy applied on the internet, as people believe they should.... then cyber crime would reach epidemic levels, and yet, society would be screaming at law enforcement to catch the cyber criminals.... and how ???? we have limited their ability to catch them cos we want privacy on line.......

lol the endless circle that we live in

DuckiesDarling
Jul 14, 2010, 10:10 PM
Interesting post....personally I can immediately see advantages and disadvantages to the drones.

There are areas inaccessible to police on foot or horse and the terrain would be as dangerous as the the alleged criminal they are trying to capture. But I get the feeling that more people will be worried about their "privacy" Remember when Google Earth came out and there were all these stories about how some people were caught flagrante indelicto around the world?

Anytime there is technology that is beneficial to all humans there will be people who will use it to circumvent the laws.

Sound familiar... oh yeah that was said about the internet. And we have proven it's true.

curious married m
Jul 14, 2010, 10:18 PM
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Looks like George Orwell's "1984" is about 26 yrs late but TRUE. :eek:

wrzwldo69
Jul 14, 2010, 10:20 PM
This is an issue of deep concern to everyone
That does not belong in this forum

better if motivated to provide occasional link to where it does belong

hey - the plan of fives lives!
wudi

Doggie_Wood
Jul 14, 2010, 11:17 PM
This is an issue of deep concern to everyone
That does not belong in this forum

better if motivated to provide occasional link to where it does belong

hey - the plan of fives lives!
wudi

The forums were designed to comunicate ideas, thoughts, items that could or do concern those of this community.
This is a thought provoking article that I felt benificial in posting.
If you think this issue does not belong here, fine, that's your opinion.
However, you do not have the right to dictate to me or anyone else here on what they should or should not post.

If it does not belong here, Drew will remove it.

Doggie :doggie:

citystyleguy
Jul 14, 2010, 11:36 PM
...the greater part of our technological advances were nurtured, developed, and deployed by our military, hence the massive funding that the military receives from all of our administrations; from this we now have access to an incredible array of technological advances.

as always, with the good comes the bad; and that is why an open and democratic society has the best means to control the application(s); said society is only efficient with an activist, participant, and educated population at the helm.

i am less afraid of the technology, then the society that fails to involve itself with its surroundings; as i am less afraid of guns, then the person behind the sightlines.

take this medium of communication that we are participating in; it began with an itch that the military needed scratching!

so here is to technology, may our society remain democratic and free! :rolleyes:

wrzwldo69
Jul 14, 2010, 11:50 PM
of course i meant
imho
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

wudi

Cherokee_Mountaincat
Jul 15, 2010, 12:33 AM
Where I lived in Calif was a major Naval Air Weapons Station, and we got accustomed to seeing drones in flight frequently, and saw them tracked with lasers and blown up in flight as well. Sounds like bad Sci-Fi, but its a fact.
I dont claim to know Military protocol, so I cant comment on this too much. I know people are thinking if they can use drones to spy, to locate and to spot, rather than send in humans to be put in harm's way, then perhaps they have the right idea. Drones are light-weight, stealthy, almost noiseless. Vertually invisable at night if they are painted black, and are now capable of going great distances.
I dont know about them cruising our streets, that's too much like Big Brother watching all over again. So, we'll just have to see what all they have in mind.
Cat

MissyMissy
Jul 15, 2010, 2:28 AM
I know dogwood. And I am not going to be punished like THEY are.
And I hope that all these badgilrs and badboys realize it soon.
They think they know me here. They do not. They have never met me personally. And Sir Fire and badgrll are in deep shit too. Not my fault they listen to a MORON. I am not a drone. I am a Queen. My name means honey bee. wink wink.

Cherokee_Mountaincat
Jul 15, 2010, 2:53 AM
Originally Posted by wrzwldo69
This is an issue of deep concern to everyoneThat does not belong in this forum better if motivated to provide occasional link to where it does belong
hey - the plan of fives lives!
wudi

This group is about open, honest, communication among Everyone. What does this have to do with the original poster? And where is this not appropriate?I'm lost...

And Missy? I didnt see Anywhere that Doggie or anyone mentioned your name as being a drone....
Confused Cat

Dead Account
Jul 15, 2010, 5:24 AM
Actually, the OPs post is not too far off, but a bit out of context- our skies are already being patrolled, partly because of the Mexican drug cartels moving into Arizona and all the crime theyve brought there. The civilian UAVs used are NOTHING like the military versions (believe me, I still work in this field) and have nowhere near the capability of the military UAV and UCAV technology. They cant and guarantee the safety of the public. As you can imagine, its a whole lot safer to have a UAV armed to the teeth flown into a battlefield scenario than it is to send one to patrol say, a neighborhood. They would definitely be useful, though. I see a advantage for public safety for sure.

void()
Jul 15, 2010, 12:27 PM
"Unfortunately, to a drone, everyone is a suspect because drone technology makes no distinction between the law-abiding individual and the suspect. Everyone gets monitored, photographed, tracked, and targeted."

Bah. The software used in the targeting systems is capable of far more accuracy than you accredit. We're talking dime sized target from over five miles, no collateral. And it can do voice, face, dna identification of a human target. I know this due to knowing a guy who used to set in a little office creating the software for DOD, he worked at Boeing, still does. He also does stuff for NASA. The guy is a real math genius as well. Has offered to teach my nephew advance trigonometry. My nephew is barely able to do basic math. This guy says it's a piece of cake. But then, I'm probably off on one of my delusional bits. Please ignore this post as I'm likely discussing eel soup and fried perch roe.

csreef
Jul 15, 2010, 4:23 PM
I hear Drones flying over West Point,(at low level flight, they sound like large remote controlled airplanes) near where I live...No big deal...

If you are not doing anything wrong, why be afraid of them????

sammie19
Jul 21, 2010, 1:21 PM
I hear Drones flying over West Point,(at low level flight, they sound like large remote controlled airplanes) near where I live...No big deal...

If you are not doing anything wrong, why be afraid of them????

As anyone who has the slightest amount of intelligence can tell you, there are innumerable instances of people not doing anything wrong who have been hounded, prosecuted and jailed every year. Many largely because of what technology has inferred they were or were not doing, or because people were in the wrong place at the wrong time (for them), but the right place at the right time for the authorities.

Asking why people are afraid of drones, cctv or anything else the police or authorities use because they were not doing anything wrong is a silly cheap shot and one which people should put a little more thought into before making. Tell that to the many innocent who have had jail time because of technological evidence and subsequently been proven innocent of wrong doing.

I am not saying the police and authorities should not have such equipment in the fight against crime. It can be a useful aid to them, but it must never be the sole source of evidence for conviction because I am saying that no tool is infallible and we must remember that.

sephirothtx
Jul 21, 2010, 2:43 PM
im no obama hater, he's much better than the choice of mczombie and the zionist gun toating self proclaimed "violent pitbull" or anything else the right had to throw at us

but the post is true, the drones have been shadowing our skies for months now, first it was the simple bombing like drones without weapons, equiped with high definition cameras they could zoom in better than any sattalite immage, but inside your house was pretty s afe

untill now, the goverment has created what they orignally called the "pigone drone" it was a rotational drone with hovering and landing capabilities shapped to act much like a bird, and about the size of one.

To call us a "democracy" is a foolish arrend anymore though, since this new war we have been moving towards a "plutocratic oligarchy" meaning"the few rich are in power" aka, the corporations rule us, and big brother is their right hand, this was all finalized with the supreme court decision that allowed as much money as corporations to wanted to put into a campaign, while being able to stay anon.

There's not much we can do other than push poloticions and unless somone leashes the corporatiosn im not sure there's much poloticions can do either, so we just kinda have to sit back and take the raping of privacy.
What is privacy anyway? right now somone may be watching what i type through my IP adress, anytime the gov wanted to they could tap your phone, easily from a desk in washington, they don't even have to actuyally tap the line anymore like you used to.

The digital and technology age brang us allot of good, but it gave big brother weapons both digital and non that they will always use against us.

12voltman59
Jul 21, 2010, 10:57 PM
Things like the use of drones for survelliance and such has been on the uptick long before anyone knew who Barack Obama is and no matter who would have been president or will be president come the next election--you can be sure that the use of drones will increase as the techonology advances and the price comes down---look at the growing use of monitoring cams all over the place for not only traffic control--but to monitor public and private spaces for crime.

Certainly--the use of all these sorts of things went up after 9/11 and they are only going to increase--such is the price it seems we have to pay to live in a high-tech but "dangerous" world where we have all kinds of forces that wish to do ill and also---people are willing to sacrifice some freedoms in order to think they are going to be safer.

With the budget cuts that local governments are going to be experiencing here in the us with the cuts in the number of police officers---we are only going to see more and more use of both stationary and mobile forms of survelliance cameras.

I hate to say it--but get used to it--if you cannot do so, then totally bug out from civilization to live far from population areas of any size at all so you don't, for the most part, have to worry about it.

AsianDream
Jul 22, 2010, 1:39 AM
its a catch 22.... people want to live in a safe society... but they do not want to live in a society where things are done to ensure their safety as best, possible in a society that is falling apart

This debate comes back to

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

While the USA is probably a less stable and civilized society than those in Europe - and thus more prone to Tyrany - it has nothing like the internal problems and contradictions of China.

So I don't see the USA as a "society that is falling apart" nor one that is in imminent danger of doing so. China on the other hand - is a society that may well blow up in a horrible bloody heap - though I think there are signs of hope that this may not happen

I