Homosexuality in Sport

[darkeyes]

I found this a terrific advance in a sport which has always been known as very macho and very heterosexual. Rugby League is, like football, in my blood, not as much as my first love, but enough, since my mum's family are all avid RL supporters coming from the heartland of the sport in the north West of England. Ever since I can remember I have been taken to League games when I visited family and have twice gone to Wembley and once Murrayfield for the Challenge Cup final and once for a Superleague final at Old Trafford. It is a hotbed of machismo with big beefy guys battering hell out of each other in a much more rugged and tough sport than ever its Union counterpart will be and makes American football look like a sport for wimps (a personal view). Australian fans in particular will know the truth of this. So it is no surprise that when a player has declared himself homosexual that many supporters of other teams play the homophobic card from the stands and terraces when that player and his side arrive for a match at their ground.

Castleford are a prime example and the Rugby League's decision to fine them for not doing enough to clamp down on homophobia and even hint at revoking their licence to play the game over the abuse of Gareth Thomas. This is a positive step which can only be of benefit to both the game and gay and bisexual players within the sport that the RL will not stand for any homophobic aggro from the terraces.. not all League fans are such but many are.. but the League's action is a positive move forward. Were such actions only taken in football when gay players have been almost driven out of the sport by shit such as Gareth Thomas received at Castleford and elsewhere..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/celtic_crusaders/8777708.stm

[DuckiesDarling]

Nice post, Fran. I have never understood what a person's sexuality had to do with whether or not they could play a sport, sing a song or kick some ass. I have never let that influence me one way or the other, neither have I let any actor or actresses offscreen comments and antics affect whether or not I enjoy a movie where they act or direct.

It's a sad day when someone is judged for their sexuality rather than any natural talent they have. Good on the Rugby League for the fine, perhaps it will save any future sports stars from the same treatment.

[Long Duck Dong]

correct me if I am wrong, but based around what I read in the article... the club got fined cos the fans were mouthy ......

it appears to me to be a token gesture... ie we need to be seen to be coming down hard on homophobia, so lets hammer the club cos its the fans that have the issue......

that would be like fining your school, fran, cos a student is homophobic....

what would be needed is identifying the fans and dealing with them... not punishing a club and its players for what a bystander is saying.....

tho yes I agree that there is no reason for the homophobic remarks from the bystanders

[darkeyes]

correct me if I am wrong, but based around what I read in the article... the club got fined cos the fans were mouthy ......

it appears to me to be a token gesture... ie we need to be seen to be coming down hard on homophobia, so lets hammer the club cos its the fans that have the issue......

that would be like fining your school, fran, cos a student is homophobic....

what would be needed is identifying the fans and dealing with them... not punishing a club and its players for what a bystander is saying.....

tho yes I agree that there is no reason for the homophobic remarks from the bystanders
No..the club got fined because it did nothing to stop it or discourage it.. similarly racist and religious chanting is not allowed on Scottish football grounds, and any club which is considered to have done not enough to have it stopped can have severe sanctions imposed upon it.. points deducted for instance and in theory chucked out of the league.. Eufa can fine or eject a club from a competition similarly should a club's supporters chant or sing racist, homophobic or religious sectarian songs and chants..

Such singing and chanting has no place in a sports ground and any club which does nothing to stop it deserves what comes their way.. you were born here.. if you had been raised in the west of Scotland you would know exactly the savagery which historically has gone on in some Scottish matches because of the sectarian divide here..

Anti homosexual singing and chanting has no place whatever in any sports ground.. allow it and we allow to be perpetuated the bigotry and prejudice against gay people which we are trying to stop. Certain types of singing and chanting are a threat to public order and an incitement to violence (Rangers/ Celtic football games for instance), and no player should be expected to have to put up with 80 or 90 and more minutes of bigotry of any kind because of his sexual orientation, his religion, his nationality or his planet of origin while plying his trade...

Clubs in all sports have a duty to fans and players alike to ensure that those who pay their money to watch them can ebjoy a fun afternoon or evening and anjoy the sport they love. Children go to football and rugby league and union matches in droves, and it is hardly satisfactory for them to be subjected to such chanting and singing.. do we want them to grow up like those fools who have cost Castleford so dear and may yet cost them more? Because by allowing it that is what we get.. and such bigotry very often, usually even spills out into the streets of our towns and cities.. witness the increase in stabbings assaults and other violent crimes which follow on from certain football matches not just here but accross the globe..

[Long Duck Dong]

so the logical action is to remove the bystanders.... and for some reason I get the gut feeling that its easier said than done, cos you have to get the buggers first....

based around what I understand of hooligans and soccer / football in the uk..... you go after the fans, you risk a riot any way....lol

personally I have the point of view that a fine is a way of saying * see, we are getting tough on things, we are just trying not to get our hands dirty actually dealing with the real issues IE the fans with big mouths.... * and personally rather than fine the club, I would have worked with them to sort out the issue and get it dealt with

it does remind me of nz and our ignorance stance of dealing with idiot drivers, with big fines every time they break a law.... and we have some kids with 100K fines and still driving..... but PM mentions a car crusher and immediately the PC crew start crying about human rights and poor kids not having a car yadda yadda....... ahhhhh driving the cars is the reason for the bloody ineffective fines..... sighs.....

[just4mefc]

I found this a terrific advance in a sport which has always been known as very macho and very heterosexual. Rugby League is, like football, in my blood, not as much as my first love, but enough, since my mum's family are all avid RL supporters coming from the heartland of the sport in the north West of England. Ever since I can remember I have been taken to League games when I visited family and have twice gone to Wembley and once Murrayfield for the Challenge Cup final and once for a Superleague final at Old Trafford. It is a hotbed of machismo with big beefy guys battering hell out of each other in a much more rugged and tough sport than ever its Union counterpart will be and makes American football look like a sport for wimps (a personal view). Australian fans in particular will know the truth of this. So it is no surprise that when a player has declared himself homosexual that many supporters of other teams play the homophobic card from the stands and terraces when that player and his side arrive for a match at their ground.

Castleford are a prime example and the Rugby League's decision to fine them for not doing enough to clamp down on homophobia and even hint at revoking their licence to play the game over the abuse of Gareth Thomas. This is a positive step which can only be of benefit to both the game and gay and bisexual players within the sport that the RL will not stand for any homophobic aggro from the terraces.. not all League fans are such but many are.. but the League's action is a positive move forward. Were such actions only taken in football when gay players have been almost driven out of the sport by shit such as Gareth Thomas received at Castleford and elsewhere..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/celtic_crusaders/8777708.stm

Well other then your ignorance of American football :tongue: this is a good post indeed. Fans will say anything to get under the skin of athletes. Every athlete has been called "fag" etc... It is certainly worse when an openly gay man is called those things. I love that your teams have enforcement policy on racial and homophobic slurs. Not certain it works but it does keep it in the consciousness... Here in the US fans are awful to opposing players. Racial and homo comments never end. Can't even take your kid to some games cause of all the idiots.

[TaylorMade]

I'm glad people are discussing doing something about it, but I think the solution is education, not fining the club for their idiot fans.

How about ad campaigns (print/TV) with the players stating that homophobia has no place in the game. To me, that seems like a better way to spend money than fines.

*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

These actions arent taken in isolation.. there are campaigns against various seedy aspects of what goes on in our football and rugby league grounds..fans abusing people because of race, sexuality or religion at games is simply not on.. clubs know the rules and are, in theory at least, part of these campaigns.. it is when a club which has to abide by the laws of the sport, whichever sport it is, refuses to act or acts inadequately to stamp out the evils which go on in our stadia that the controlling body takes dusciplinary action against them.. anyone who takes a child to a football or rugby ground does not wish their child to hear things like "Fuck the Pope", "String the Orange bastard up" or "Shoot the fucking poof" being screamed at players and opposition supporters, and songs and chants which reflect that sort of bigotry. They do not wish to be witness to violence (more a football problem than a rugby league one) caused by that hatred. Children are very impressionable, and hearing such things chanted and sung hardly helps eliminate prejudice.. more likely it will encourage them to hate.. they see adults screaming and singing hate.. o its ok then isnt it? So the prejudice continues, and the hate and violence into the next generation.. fans in football are sometimes banned for life from going to a football game, for their espousing of hatred, they are ejected from supporters clubs, and very often the law steps in and makes such decisions for the sporting authorities..and it has the additional penalty of imprisonment as a final resort...

If a club fails in its duty to both its own and opposition supporters and players, and in its duty to the safety of those players and supporters, then it is right that the controlling body acts against that club, and acts effectively. I must say I am suprised at the resistance to such moves by British and European sporting bodies.. the reluctance from outside of Europe to ensure that sporting clubs meet their responsibilties to players and fans, society is indeed a mystery to me. However.. it does not in the least surprise me...

[chook]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring on the Leap Frog events at the Gay Olympics :tongue:



Cheers Chook :bigrin:

[DuckiesDarling]

These actions arent taken in isolation.. there are campaigns against various seedy aspects of what goes on in our football and rugby league grounds..fans abusing people because of race, sexuality or religion at games is simply not on.. clubs know the rules and are, in theory at least, part of these campaigns.. it is when a club which has to abide by the laws of the sport, whichever sport it is, refuses to act or acts inadequately to stamp out the evils which go on in our stadia that the controlling body takes dusciplinary action against them.. anyone who takes a child to a football or rugby ground does not wish their child to hear things like "Fuck the Pope", "String the Orange bastard up" or "Shoot the fucking poof" being screamed at players and opposition supporters, and songs and chants which reflect that sort of bigotry. They do not wish to be witness to violence (more a football problem than a rugby league one) caused by that hatred. Children are very impressionable, and hearing such things chanted and sung hardly helps eliminate prejudice.. more likely it will encourage them to hate.. they see adults screaming and singing hate.. o its ok then isnt it? So the prejudice continues, and the hate and violence into the next generation.. fans in football are sometimes banned for life from going to a football game, for their espousing of hatred, they are ejected from supporters clubs, and very often the law steps in and makes such decisions for the sporting authorities..and it has the additional penalty of imprisonment as a final resort...

If a club fails in its duty to both its own and opposition supporters and players, and in its duty to the safety of those players and supporters, then it is right that the controlling body acts against that club, and acts effectively. I must say I am suprised at the resistance to such moves by British and European sporting bodies.. the reluctance from outside of Europe to ensure that sporting clubs meet their responsibilties to players and fans, society is indeed a mystery to me. However.. it does not in the least surprise me...

Sorry, Fran, this is where I disagree with you a bit. First, most parents know that sporting events tend to be rowdy with enthusiastic fans. In my opinion, responsible parents would not take a child who was too young to hear some things and too impressionable to a sporting event especially soccer or rugby. Those are some of the games with the most vocal fans around. This started out being a thread about one club being fined for failure to control homophobic fans. Now it's being turned into you can't say jack shit at a ball game? I'm a fan of some games and I've been known to scream at my tv set quite often "You fucking dickhead how could you drop the ball" That kind of thing goes on at games too, by ardent fans who are commenting on the sportsman's athletic ability not his bedroom habits.

[baachus]

I seem to remember several soccer matches in europe and south america where the home team played a match in an empty stadium, the fans being barred because of riots outside the stadium from the previous match. This penalizes the home team as well as supporters. Maybe something similar can work when it comes to racial or sexual slurs. Hecklers at various events have been kicked out for crossing over the line, it's just a matter of setting the line.

Also there is a culture, especially with the macho sports, that homosexuals aren't welcome. Several pro athletes have stated they 'wouldn't be able to trust a gay teammate' whatever the hell that means. John Amaechi, a british basketball player who was in the NBA with several teams, didn't come out as gay until he retired. But, maybe the culture is changing, albeit slowly.

Recently, as reported by Sports Illustrated website, the Chicago gay pride parade had a float sponsored by the Chicago Cubs with Ernie Banks riding on it. For those unfamiliar, he is an icon with the team, a hall of fame former player and now an ambassador for the team. Also in the parade was Brent Sopel, late of the stanley cup winning Chicago Black Hawks. He rode in the parade, with the cup, in part as a tribute to a gay friend who had died in a car accident.

With some teams showing leadership, hopefully the fans will follow suit. More than likely wishful thinking on my part.

[TaylorMade]

I seem to remember several soccer matches in europe and south america where the home team played a match in an empty stadium, the fans being barred because of riots outside the stadium from the previous match. This penalizes the home team as well as supporters. Maybe something similar can work when it comes to racial or sexual slurs. Hecklers at various events have been kicked out for crossing over the line, it's just a matter of setting the line.

Also there is a culture, especially with the macho sports, that homosexuals aren't welcome. Several pro athletes have stated they 'wouldn't be able to trust a gay teammate' whatever the hell that means. John Amaechi, a british basketball player who was in the NBA with several teams, didn't come out as gay until he retired. But, maybe the culture is changing, albeit slowly.

Recently, as reported by Sports Illustrated website, the Chicago gay pride parade had a float sponsored by the Chicago Cubs with Ernie Banks riding on it. For those unfamiliar, he is an icon with the team, a hall of fame former player and now an ambassador for the team. Also in the parade was Brent Sopel, late of the stanley cup winning Chicago Black Hawks. He rode in the parade, with the cup, in part as a tribute to a gay friend who had died in a car accident.

With some teams showing leadership, hopefully the fans will follow suit. More than likely wishful thinking on my part.

Now I'm mad I missed this parade.... THIS is what I'm talking about. I'd rather see money go toward floats and shit than fines.

*Taylor*

[baachus]

For those interested, here is the SI article

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jeff_pearlman/06/25/cubs/index.html

[TaylorMade]

For those interested, here is the SI article

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jeff_pearlman/06/25/cubs/index.html


http://erroraccessdenied.com/files/images/relevant_interest.jpg

*Taylor*

[niftyshellshock]

Oh, I clicked on the thread and thought it was going to be a thread about Cristiano Ronaldo.

Since it's not, this is my contribuition..

http://www.thefunnyblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/funny-cristiano-ronaldo-wayne-rooney-415x550.jpg

[TaylorMade]

Oh, I clicked on the thread and thought it was going to be a thread about Cristiano Ronaldo.

Since it's not, this is my contribuition..

http://www.thefunnyblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/funny-cristiano-ronaldo-wayne-rooney-415x550.jpg

Hey, it's more acting! :D They'd probably actually do it if it resulted in the opposite team getting a red card.

:p

*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

Sorry, Fran, this is where I disagree with you a bit. First, most parents know that sporting events tend to be rowdy with enthusiastic fans. In my opinion, responsible parents would not take a child who was too young to hear some things and too impressionable to a sporting event especially soccer or rugby. Those are some of the games with the most vocal fans around. This started out being a thread about one club being fined for failure to control homophobic fans. Now it's being turned into you can't say jack shit at a ball game? I'm a fan of some games and I've been known to scream at my tv set quite often "You fucking dickhead how could you drop the ball" That kind of thing goes on at games too, by ardent fans who are commenting on the sportsman's athletic ability not his bedroom habits.

There is nothing worng with most of the screeching nd screaming and singing which goes on in most of our sports grounds.. this is acceted and acceptble.. what is not accepted or acceptable is to scream and screech racial and sectarian hatred within a ground or the loathing of anyone because of their sexuality. Everyone shouts and screeches at games and I am no exception, but never do I scream at anyone because of his sexuality, race, place of origin or religion.. and no one should ever be subjected to such abuse either individually oir collectively..that is why the Castleford action is so important .. it is but one SMALL, step, as part of a larger campaign to eliminate the worst kind of intolerance in our Rugly League grounds and is a makrker to all other clubs to get their act together or face the consequences..

.. Rugby, like football would die without new blood coming into the sport.. Rugby League, like football has always allowed and encouraged the young to attend, and in most sports grounds parets have always happily taken their children along to watch sport. Sometimes however, the atmosphere of hate can be too much, and the threat of violence just not worth the risk.. when I was wee my dad would never take me or my brother and sister to watch certain clubs at Tynecastle because of his concerns of violence which existed from the sectarian supporters of certain clubs. Our grounds of whatever sport should be, and are open to all.. not simply the foul mouthed, evil, racist , homophobic and religious bigots. Everyone should be welcome in sports grounds.. but equally everyone should be aware of the consequences should they break the laws and by-laws which govern the and football clubs, of whichever code are no exception..

.. and pick up on some thing Taylor said about paying for floats and parades rather than fines.. and why not? So would I.. but I would rather clubs just lived up to their responsibilities and not needed floats and parades.. I would much rather clubs spent their money ensuring those who watch their games were safe and had a lovely and exciting day watching the sport they love. I would rather the clubs spent their money on giving as much vaue as possible to the paying customer by having the best team they could. But sometimes clubs responsibilties to those fans also involve acting against the bigotted.. and where those clubs fail..that is when the aurthorities have to act against them.

[sammie19]

When I was outed I worked part time in pub in the nearest town just across the border from where I lived, and also in a local shop during the day. It was not very nice watching customers gather into a huddle and whisper perfectly aware that your sexuality and outing were the subject of their conversation. It was much worse when customers blatantly abused me fverbally and publicly at my workplaces for being a dyke, which I am not.

I understand exactly what Gareth Thomas endured while playing rugby and no person should ever be abused such as he or I were while at their place of work. The laws of the United Kingdom specifically forbid this and all employers must take steps to protect their employess from such abuse and discrimination. It is the sporting association responsible which must ensure that their member clubs obey the law and do what they must for the benefit of all who watch and play the sport.

I am not a sport lover but have been and am an employee. Those of you who feel it is acceptable for the kind of abuse aimed at the participants of any sport should place yourself in the boots of any sportsman or woman who is abused by fans because of his or her religion race or sexuality. It is one thing being name called for what happens on the field of play or because a player is of the wrong team. It is quite another if it is done to someone because of their origin their beliefs and gender orientation.

[niftyshellshock]

I will gladly go for someone's country of origin in an international match. It's fair.