"The last person out of the closet? The bisexual male" [Archive]

TamLin

Jun 28, 2010, 3:53 PM

You know, this is a pretty decently written article that has its heart in the right place and is a nice indication of some efforts to make the community more visible in the mainstream.

That said, even here there's some stuff that just makes me see red:

The couple says they've grown closer over time, but like any marriage, two people can have differences -- including sexual orientation. Christine Winn is straight, and she has been supportive of her husband, who is openly bisexual.

"I don't think about it [his bisexuality] as a part I have to accept," she said. "It's just a part of him like any other husband who loses their socks on the floor or doesn't take the trash out."

Boy would it have been nice if she had compared her husband's orientation to something other than bad housekeeping habits...

Her husband feels a sexual and emotional attraction toward men and women. While he fantasizes about Angelina Jolie just as his straight male friends might do, he is also attracted to Brad Pitt.

Two things: One, is there anyone who really needed the term defined for them, and two, couldn't you have picked some other celebrity couple? Like, ANY other celebrity couple?

More than 50 percent of Americans accept the idea of a gay or lesbian relationship, signaling growing support for same-sex couples, according to a Gallup poll in May.

They quote that number like it's good news. "More than fifty percent," means "Less than sixty percent," which of course means "Way too fucking few." I mean, it's good that it's a majority, but this is what I would call a thrilling, surprising poll result in, say, Iran.

It's either you're in the closet or out of the closet, and it's not that simple," David Malebranche, a physician and professor of psychology at Emory University, says about the common perception of bisexuals.

I realize this has nothing to do with the article itself, but can I just ask, "Doctor Malebrance"? Man, it must be tough getting patients when you're named after one of the demons from Dante's "Inferno".

About 1.8 percent of men and women between the ages of 15 and 44 identified themselves as bisexual, according to a 2005 survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Considering that that's the same survey where more people identified as "other", I've never really cared to fall back on those numbers.

Ben Pierce, a 22-year-old recent college graduate living in Massachusetts who identifies as bisexual, can understand why bisexuals are hesitant to come forward. He likens being bisexual today to being biracial in the 1960s

Really? I would like it to being a leper in the 60s from how some people talk. Or today. Check the comments section if you don't believe me.

So far, his results among college athletes showed that 90 percent of the students surveyed believe bisexuality exists.

That last ten percent must be working through some issues.

Some say that coming out as bisexual has been easier for women than men. In recent years, several Hollywood female stars have proudly declared their bisexuality. Female celebrities like Lady Gaga, Lindsay Lohan and HBO "True Blood" actress Anna Paquin have said they are bisexual.

Yeah, isn't it wonderful to think that frat boys' puerile, immature lust for girl on girl action is shepherding in a wonderful new age of tolerance for the small fraction of bisexual women they consider attractive enough.

He's heard the phrase "Bi now, gay later" many times.

Next guy who says that to me is getting punched in the face, I don't care who he is or where we are.

The academic world has also questioned the idea of bisexuality. In 2005, a controversial study from professors in Toronto, Canada, and Illinois reported males identifying as bisexual were typically not aroused by both sexes. Most of the bisexual men surveyed were physically aroused by images of men instead of women, the study said.

Apparently their bi-dar wasn't up to snuff. Why do I get a suspicion this study was funded by my ex boyfriend?

just4mefc

Jun 28, 2010, 4:34 PM

Good article. But so incomplete. Part of the difficulty of studying Bi ppl is so many appear to see themselves (ourselves) as simply being the normal ones and have no need to "out" themselves. We seem to view our orientation as us just being us. But there is a smaller group who take on what we call the "bisexual" identity. This group needs and wants the outing processes for their own emotional well being (a good thing btw).

The mass majority (in my opinion) of people are actually bisexual by nature. I say this based on the APA's current stance of orientation....

"Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female), and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).
Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. ...
Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept.

Individuals may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors."

It is this last line that I find of most interest. If behavior is separate from identity then does having same gender sex necessarily make one Bisexual? One could say that if you like sex with the same gender but do not have same gender emotional/affection attachments (et al) then one might see their orientation as being "str8" but open minded to the fun of sex.

This is the inverse of the argument... a gay man on an isolated island is still gay. He can not act on his orientation but he is who he is. So can one be str8 and yet have a sexual liking for same sex without losing the "str8" internal identity. Some will call this a "fetish" but I don't like that word per se.

Freud felt all people were bisexual in nature. Kinsey has his scale, but notice there are more points in the middle of the scale then on the ends of the scale.

The biggest problem for the sake of study appears that most people think behavior and orientation are the same thing. The Canadian study referenced in the article looked at the sexual arousal of self identified bisexual men. WTF? First problem, arousal is not good measure orientation. Even if the arousal were a good measure how do you know if this applies to "closeted bisexual's" who in theory are the largest orientation group" etc etc

Another issue, when we try to "out" our bisexuality in hopes of joining a bisexual community we don't have a real definition of what that means. When someone comes out as "gay" they pretty much know what they are saying to the world. Take this website as an example even here it seems very few people can agree on what bisexual is? Is it having or wanting sex with same sex? Is it a sense of self? Do you have to have had same-sex sex to confirm you are bi? Etc, etc, etc. Hell I have even seen some people tell others that they are not real bisexuals because of some criteria or another.

Hell I only identify myself with the label "bisexual" for the ease of conversation with others here. I have no need to "out" myself to the world at large. My wife and potential lovers all know my "orientation" but that is for the point of honesty, not group inclusion. I suspect there are many like me who never even make it too such a "label" but academically they are very important to our demographic and our mental health.

We need more study to rid the myths of what being bisexual is, but there is so far to go! I am glad to see the article and I hope it leads to more like it. But bisexuality scares people to no end. Gays fear we undercut their "I was born this way" argument and undermine their political clout. Straights fear they might be us and that is very scary. So both sides want to push us to the extremes. Be Str8 or be Gay those are easy to comprehend. As we see in the comments of the article there is lots of fear out there and that leads to intolerance.

just4mefc

Jun 28, 2010, 4:41 PM

from Tamlin

He's heard the phrase "Bi now, gay later" many times.

Next guy who says that to me is getting punched in the face, I don't care who he is or where we are.

I always say "remember that when I am fucking your wife" :eek:

I don't care at all if people think I am on my way to all "gay" that is just there fear so they never get to me.

Cherokee_Mountaincat

Jun 28, 2010, 4:46 PM

Great minds must think alike, Drew. This was posted this morning, too..:}
Cat

bensonmum65

Jun 28, 2010, 6:26 PM

Came here to post this. Thanks Drew.

void()

Jun 28, 2010, 6:53 PM

darkeyes

Jun 28, 2010, 7:44 PM

"It's either you're in the closet or out of the closet, and it's not that simple," David Malebranche, a physician and professor of psychology at Emory University, says about the common perception of bisexuals.

I realize this has nothing to do with the article itself, but can I just ask, "Doctor Malebrance"? Man, it must be tough getting patients when you're named after one of the demons from Dante's "Inferno"."

An article posted on Christian News Network and you don't think they aren't going to add a little coloring? I just see the reference as a poorly used alliteration, to mask the ploy to make homosexual, bisexual, trans, as demons. And even then, it was a farce at best. I mean hey, "it's CNN after all."

"Some say that coming out as bisexual has been easier for women than men. In recent years, several Hollywood female stars have proudly declared their bisexuality. Female celebrities like Lady Gaga, Lindsay Lohan and HBO "True Blood" actress Anna Paquin have said they are bisexual.

Yeah, isn't it wonderful to think that frat boys' puerile, immature lust for girl on girl action is shepherding in a wonderful new age of tolerance for the small fraction of bisexual women they consider attractive enough.
"

It is still mass media controlled by the mass popular opinion. America is not a Christian nation, was not founded as such either. But America has roughly about 80% or so identifying as Christian. Money changed hands somewhere is all. These gals ... um Gaga ... um ... erm okay. I've heard like two songs by her, hate both, they get constantly repeated. So what if she says she's bi, doesn't matter ... like doesn't matter the sky is blue, same as the ocean.

Those other broads ... not really heard of 'em nor seen 'em but still applies. Their press agents / managers are paying off some sludge sheeple to broadcast. "Oh look, we're filthy rich stars, afflicted with these nasty demon diseases ...."

Good way to prod a flock back into a herd, or maintain. Sorry Drew, not meaning to go all psycho / religious ... just not seeing this as news.

Bisexuals have existed all along, same as homosexuals, lesbians, straights ... recently ( in the grand scheme ) we got transformers. But they fit in too, so it's not news, at least to me. Mainstream has been more inclusive over the past five years or so. *sighs* Gosh darn it, I'm gonna go hush out of this one.

I actually agree with some of what you say Voidie.. I read the article and thought "is that it?" Tosh it was.. but it seems to have stirred up the opposition and I like to know they are still ready with a quote or two and are still as shitty as ever...

..where we would part company however is your reference to celebrities who are or claim to be bisexual.. or gay for that matter.. personally I dont give a bugger what anyones sexuality is.. the sooner we all accept our sexuality is and accpet that the happier we as a species will be.. but celebrity biseuxals or gays do serve a useful purpose..two I suppose.. firstly they help keep lgbt on the agenda by being open and honest about it (or lying for publicity..it does the same.. and we dont always know which is which..).. and secondly, assuming that they are genuine from Angelina to Anna to Lady Gaga or anyone else..that celebrity can and does say to the young in particular.. they are so whats wrong with it? And so it can help open up the true sexuality of many..it can encourage many of course to try it while they do not believe they are gay or bisexual.. and some may well find out they have been living a lie..

An interesting development this week in the case of celebrity lesbians was the marriage this week of the President of Iceland and her long time partner.. this kind of event says something important to the world and is a statement by those two women that they have as much right to live their lives as who they are as anyone else..

..so celebs do have a role to play.. I hate the cult of celebrity, but I have drooled over my fair share.. we cannot ignore their contribution to the fight for acceptance and understanding of all gay and bisexual people and the importance of those who decalre to the world that they are gay or bisexual.. it does matter.. and we shouldn't dismiss it as nothing... to do so would be the height of folly and do our cause a great deal of harm..

onewhocares

Jun 28, 2010, 10:31 PM

Great minds must think alike, Drew. This was posted this morning, too..:}
Cat

Darn....I was hoping to get here earlier to post...guess Drew is on top of things.

While I thought the article was perhaps an introduction for the general public about bisexuality, I, as a straight wife of a bi/gay man, I would have liked a more in depth article. I support my husband in his decision to try and live the most authentic life and to be true to himself, I was a bit surprised by the comments of Christine Winn. I found them to be rather cool with a tinge of underlying nonacceptance of her husband's orientation. I have met so so many bisexual men, both in real life and on line who have not shared their desires with their partners and I firmly believe that if they could find a supportive partner, their relationship would be better. Perhaps some would say that I am naive, but I think if you truly love your partner and want their happiness, then their need or want to have a partner of the same sex would not be trying for some relationships.

Another positive of the article was the inclusion of research on the subject. I wish there was more study on the subject. Hubby and I are participating in a study of commitment in a bisexual marriage along with other members here and from other bisexual groups. I look forward to seeing the fruits of the research.

Belle

michaelaaron

Jun 28, 2010, 11:11 PM

Just read this, before I saw it here, actually... Thought it was great. Really summed up a lot of things I agree with.

onewhocares

Jun 29, 2010, 12:02 AM

I read the article where does it say that being bisexual is the most common sexual orientation?

What did Christine Winn say? I did not read all of the comments on CNN.

"I don't think about it [his bisexuality] as a part I have to accept," she said. "It's just a part of him like any other husband who loses their socks on the floor or doesn't take the trash out."

This is what she said....in MY opinion, not overly supportive.

Belle

DuckiesDarling

Jun 29, 2010, 12:23 AM

I agree with you, Belle. It not only doesn't sound supportive it doesn't sound accepting. She would have been better off to just say that it was a part of him that made up the whole she loved. IMO

citystyleguy

Jun 29, 2010, 12:59 AM

...a decent article posted by a mainstream news bureau, hardly infomative; something everyone doesn't know already. comparing my sexuality to male involment with the family laundry or the household garbage, what the hell is that?!

as to the commentaries, makes me wonder if a disproportionate number of people who hate others for __________ (fill-in the blank) respond to these articles more often then others; always, statements of the most asinine ideas, filled with some kind of hatred! must give them an equally disproportionate feeling of importance, to verbalize this garbage!

did like this guy's comment;

"The world is not black or white to me, but a rich diversity of colors, and it is not either/or, but both/and,"

pretty much a definitive statement on the state of the bisexual's mind-set.

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 2:30 AM

"I don't think about it [his bisexuality] as a part I have to accept," she said. "It's just a part of him like any other husband who loses their socks on the floor or doesn't take the trash out."

This is what she said....in MY opinion, not overly supportive.

Belle

Yeah, I didn't like that. I realize what she probably meant is that it's just part of his overall personality and not something that seems unusual or out of the ordinary to her, but it comes off like it's something she has to tolerate or overlook to avoid friction in her marriage, not something she loves, celebrates, and accepts about him.

Perhaps what's rubbing me and a few others the wrong way about this article (which really is just trying to help) is that it seems to be written toward an audience that has never even heard of bisexuality, or that regarded bisexuals as some sort of strange urban myth and will be shocked to find out that "Surprise, we're real!" Then again, maybe that's the way things actually are and we just don't realize it because we're on the inside...

Long Duck Dong

Jun 29, 2010, 3:17 AM

"I don't think about it [his bisexuality] as a part I have to accept," she said. "It's just a part of him like any other husband who loses their socks on the floor or doesn't take the trash out."

interesting remark... and I understand what she is saying......
she loves her husband, but there are some aspects of her husband that she doesn't have to agree with or accept...... IE bad house habits, she doesn't have to accept them in the house.... BUT the bisexuality is something that is a aspect of him, and she doesn't have to be the sweet loving housewife that just smiles and says ok baby, have other lovers, and we will continue to play happy married people.....

I can not see how she is wrong..... she has stated her stance and her view on things.... and thats what a partner should be allowed to do..... and it appears the husband has accepted her stance

if we reverse it, we would have the husband annoyed cos his wife would not allow him to have extra lovers cos he is bisexual..... and we all know that a number of the site would label her as selfish and non understanding....

TaylorMade

Jun 29, 2010, 4:13 AM

Great article, but the comment section is scary. This country is so ass backward...

CNN has commenters from all over the world on there so . . .yeah.

*Taylor*

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 5:02 AM

"
and she doesn't have to be the sweet loving housewife that just smiles and says ok baby, have other lovers, and we will continue to play happy married people.....

Who suggested she do that? The assumption that accepting bisexuality in your relationship means accepting infidelity is exactly the kind of stereotype we should be fighting, and I don't think anyone who was critical of the comment suggested that she do that.

The point is that it would be nice if CNN could have talked to a bi-inclusive couple in which the non-bisexual partner was more than grudgingly accepting of the situation and didn't treat it as a bad habit that had to be tolerated. Not because there's necessarily anything wrong with the couple they profiled instead or the way their relationship works, but because I'm sure a lot of us in the bi community would have liked for the mainstream to get as positive a depiction of bisexuality as possible. God knows we could use it.

Long Duck Dong

Jun 29, 2010, 5:04 AM

Who suggested she do that? The assumption that accepting bisexuality in your relationship means accepting infidelity is exactly the kind of stereotype we should be fighting, and I don't think anyone who was critical of the comment suggested that she do that.

The point is that it would be nice if CNN could have talked to a bi-inclusive couple in which the non-bisexual partner was more than grudgingly accepting of the situation and didn't treat it as a bad habit that had to be tolerated. Not because there's necessarily anything wrong with the couple they profiled instead or the way their relationship works, but because I'm sure a lot of us in the bi community would have liked for the mainstream to get as positive a depiction of bisexuality as possible. God knows we could use it.

so we should just use a cookie cutter type couple ????

actually I think that CNN did the right thing.... they posted a article about a couple that do not have the * perfect * relationship...... for a imperfect audience......

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 5:27 AM

IS there a cookie cutter couple when it comes to bi-inclusive relationships? The template for a generic, ideal bi relationship doesn't exist, because no one has put one in the public eye. All I'm asking for is an example that doesn't treat bisexuality as an obstacle to overcome, I don't think that's unreasonable.

The couple are fine in themselves, but in absence of almost any positive publicity (or any publicity at all most of the time), a better exemplar would have done more for the community. CNN, of course, is primarily interested in pursuing the story lead that presented itself, not in advocating for recognition and validity for bisexuals. Which is fine, they've got their priorities. But I have mine too.

darkeyes

Jun 29, 2010, 5:34 AM

Who suggested she do that? The assumption that accepting bisexuality in your relationship means accepting infidelity is exactly the kind of stereotype we should be fighting, and I don't think anyone who was critical of the comment suggested that she do that.

The point is that it would be nice if CNN could have talked to a bi-inclusive couple in which the non-bisexual partner was more than grudgingly accepting of the situation and didn't treat it as a bad habit that had to be tolerated. Not because there's necessarily anything wrong with the couple they profiled instead or the way their relationship works, but because I'm sure a lot of us in the bi community would have liked for the mainstream to get as positive a depiction of bisexuality as possible. God knows we could use it.

I am one half of a bi inclusive couple who does not begrudge for one minute the fact that my partner is bisexual.. but I doubt our relationship is is one which fits the bill, Tamlin hun...:(

Long Duck Dong

Jun 29, 2010, 5:38 AM

ok lets look at the article

a monogamous bi male..... omg hes monogamous..... shock horror.... a bi male being monogamous.....
right there, is positive..... a monogamous male in a marriage... yes bisexuals can be monogamous.... ( shut up tenni, monogamous is a choice not a religious law of the land nor is it a hetero law of the land either )..... that goes against the idea that bisexuals are not able to keep it in their pants or their hands out of anybody elses

near 18 years of a bisexual / straight marriage.... thats a fucking good marriage.... 18 years is very good.... some marriages do not last 18 months...

Christine Winn is straight, and she has been supportive of her husband, who is openly bisexual. wtf ?? a supportive wife ????? ( btw thats just above her comment that shes is trouble for saying )
it shows that straight people are supportive of bisexual male partners..... and that is positive.....

"He frequently battles the stereotypes of bisexuality: That bisexual men are promiscuous. That his relationships with men were just an adolescent phase. That his bisexuality is imaginary. That he's really a gay man trying to camouflage his orientation. " and that part is coming from where ???? the LGBT community themselves

all that positive stuff, portraying bisexuals in a good light.... a supportive wife, a long marriage...... but its not portraying bisexuality in a good light????

the reason that bisexuality is not protrayed in a good light,.... is cos of the way bisexuals have been seen to act and carry on..... we only have ourselves to blame for the public image of us.....

once again.... good on CNN for posting a good example of NON mainstream bisexuality

darkeyes

Jun 29, 2010, 5:44 AM

ok lets look at the article

the reason that bisexuality is not protrayed in a good light,.... is cos of the way bisexuals have been seen to act and carry on..... we only have ourselves to blame for the public image of us.....

once again.... good on CNN for posting a good example of NON mainstream bisexuality

I knew there was a reason the str8 community had a bad press carryin on like they do.. kinda double standard there methinks. Triple if u take the gay community along 2...

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 5:49 AM

the reason that bisexuality is not protrayed in a good light,.... is cos of the way bisexuals have been seen to act and carry on..... we only have ourselves to blame for the public image of us.....

Bull. The image the public has, if it has an image at all, is mostly the result of narrow minds, broad assumptions, unfortunate stereotypes, and an overall lack of education, not any real, tangible behavior.

I'm certainly not a promiscuous, untrustworthy, "Anything that moves" bisexual, are you? I've never even met such a person. We're certainly not naive enough to believe that there aren't misbehaving bisexuals who give us all a bad name, but the bulk of the infidelity and promiscuity that I've observed people engaging in has been perpetrated by heterosexuals, and there's certainly no more of that going around in the bi (or gay, for that matter) community than in the straight community.

Just off the top of my head I can name five straight friends that I know are fucking around on their significant others, but I can't think of a single bi person that I know for sure is. Doesn't mean they don't exist or that I don't know one (I'm sure I do, human nature being what it is), but it's an interesting little ratio all the same. Heterosexuals get the beneficial end of the double standard on this one, which I guess is just the benefit of being the "norm", but being bi means having to go the extra mile to defend your character whether it's warranted or not, often to no effect.

As I've already said, the article is good, the couple is fine, but it's worth noting that even in this piece, a piece which was written at least in part to foster awareness and combat stereotypes, there are things that show just how far people are from really understanding this orientation, and that little comment was one of them. Not saying it kills the entire article or that the woman doesn't have the right to feel that way. Just saying I don't have to like it. And I don't.

I am one half of a bi inclusive couple who does not begrudge for one minute the fact that my partner is bisexual.. but I doubt our relationship is is one which fits the bill, Tamlin hun...

I dunno, sounds like a good foundation to me.

DuckiesDarling

Jun 29, 2010, 5:57 AM

Just a little note to you, Tamlin. There is a large history of threads on this board that actually support that bisexuals have propogated the stereotypes. There are threads asking how to get their straight wife to let them sleep with guys. There are threads asking how to convince the straight wife they are bisexual too. There are threads asking how to get the partner to understand the need to cheat. There are threads that make it look like most bisexual males are not interested in loving another man, they just want the cock.

Just look around, you'll find em. All over this board, unfortunately.

Long Duck Dong

Jun 29, 2010, 5:59 AM

Bull. The image the public has, if it has an image at all, is mostly the result of narrow minds, broad assumptions, unfortunate stereotypes, and an overall lack of education, not any real, tangible behavior.

I'm certainly not a promiscuous, untrustworthy, "Anything that moves" bisexual, are you? I've never even met such a person. We're certainly not naive enough to believe that there aren't misbehaving bisexuals who give us all a bad name, but the bulk of the infidelity and promiscuity that I've observed people engaging in has been perpetrated by heterosexuals, and there's certainly no more of that going around in the bi (or gay, for that matter) community than in the straight community.

Just off the top of my head I can name five straight friends that I know are fucking around on their significant others, but I can't think of a single bi person that I know for sure is. Doesn't mean they don't exist or that I don't know one (I'm sure I do, human nature being what it is), but it's an interesting little ratio all the same. Heterosexuals get the beneficial end of the double standard on this one, which I guess is just the benefit of being the "norm".

As I've already said, the article is good, the couple is fine, but it's worth noting that even in this piece, a piece which was written at least in part to foster awareness and combat stereotypes, there are things that show just how far people are from really understanding this orientation, and that little comment was one of them. Not saying it kills the entire article or that the woman doesn't have the right to feel that way. Just saying I don't have to like it. And I don't.

I dunno, sounds like a good foundation to me.

I have 4 years in the site, reading thread after thread of people complaining cos their partners will not let them sleep around..... how cheating should be accepted by the bi community... how monogamy is unfair and selfish....

I love the way that its never the bisexual communities fault for our own bad image....... so I guess its the spouses fault for divorcing us for cheating.... its the fault of the numerous casual partners that some bis hook up with.....
hey it must be the straight partners that join the site looking for hook ups for their bi partners......

everybody is telling lies about us that are untrue.... and in bisexual,com there is no ads looking for discreet ( wife must not know ) hookups...and no lovers hurt by cheating...and no people posting how to get away with cheating....

dude seriously.... read the forums.... read the ads.... the proof is right there.... amongst the threads by monogamous bi males with straight supportive partners..... IE me and my partner..... amongst others....

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 6:16 AM

There's always folks who embody the stereotype. There are black people who deal drugs and rob liquor stores and have five kids on welfare, there are Latinos who steal cars and work as illegal day laborers, there are Arabs and Muslims who are indeed terrorists and Asians who can't drive, and there are gay men who are effeminate shopoholics who sleep around and have AIDS and lesbians who are angry, man-hating bikers. All of these people exist, and we could fill volumes talking about all of the ugly stereotypes in the world and all of the various people who are living breathing examples of them, but that doesn't make the stereotype any less a stereotype and it doesn't make it any less important to do away with it and it doesn't make it any less offensive when it's broadly applied.

And I still more straight guys who say it's okay to fuck around than bi guys who say it. That's not part of them being straight, that's just part of them being them. Locker room talk exists for a reason ya know, but hey, I'm not gonna sit here and cast aspersions on straight men as a community. I could, but I'm not going to, because for all of the bad apples I might be able to pick out of a barrel, I know that just plain wouldn't be fair, or accurate, or right.

Long Duck Dong

Jun 29, 2010, 6:28 AM

right, you judge people on the visible...... not the invisible..... and the stereotypes you mention are visible stereotypes......

thats exactly my point..... monogamous bi males in long term marriages is not a stereotype..... but its nice to see that we are acknowledged as a valid type of bisexual........ yet nooooo... we have bisexuals kicking up a stink cos of it....

hence you prove my point.... you want a more * valid * type of bisexual protrayed... one that better fits your image of bisexuality..... and how YOU want to be seen......

should us monogamous bisexuals just sit in a corner and shut up cos we are not good role models of bisexuality????? cos we do not encompass the * right image * of bisexuality?????

thank you for reenforcing the disunity in the bisexual community and the understanding that monogamous bis are the new * outcasts * for not conforming to the bisexual mainstream image

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 6:38 AM

Uh, when did I say that monogamous bisexuals aren't good role models? That's the polar opposite of what I said. Didn't I just spend half an hour being offended at the way bisexuality is (unfairly) linked to infidelity? Not to pick a fight, but you're the one who was ten minutes ago making the argument that most bi men are promiscuous, and you're the one who suggested that by saying I thought the woman's comments in the article weren't as supportive as they could have been that I was suggesting she should condone infidelity, something that came away out of left field I might add.

The image of bisexuality that I want portrayed is one that gives the benefit of the doubt to the bisexual (at least to the same degree that we do for heterosexuals. Few articles on a heterosexual marriage would make such a point of mentioning that they were monogamous, it's usually implied in the word "marriage", whether said implication turns out to be true or not), one that doesn't imply that a monogamous bisexual is some sort of fucking novelty and that we have to go out of our way to differentiate them. THAT was the tone I was objecting to, not the example of a monogamous bisexual in the first place. I honestly don't see how you could interpret that from anything I wrote, since I did just spill quite a bit of ink talking about how much I hate and resent the image you've accused me of endorsing.

darkeyes

Jun 29, 2010, 6:39 AM

I dunno, sounds like a good foundation to me.

Us 2.. but am not sure CNN or ne otha newsgroup wud find it newsworthy in a way so as 2 put bisexuals (or gays for that matta) in gud lite.. tittilation mayb but thats bout all..:)

Long Duck Dong

Jun 29, 2010, 6:50 AM

Uh, when did I say that monogamous bisexuals aren't good role models? That's the polar opposite of what I said. Didn't I just spend half an hour being offended at the way bisexuality is (unfairly) linked to infidelity? Not to pick a fight, but you're the one who was ten minutes ago making the argument that most bi men are promiscuous, and you're the one who suggested that by saying I thought the woman's comments in the article weren't as supportive as they could have been that I was suggesting she should condone infidelity, something that came away out of left field I might add.

its the bisexual community that has issues with monogamy and fidelity.... hence I said read the forums or check the profiles of bisexual people..... cos I am pointing out what people in the bisexual community are doing ( not all of them ) and it is a lot of the bisexual community that are promiscuous ....thats why there are profiles full of bi males seeking hook ups.....

so its not what I am saying.... I saying go bloody look for yourself....

I am applauding the female for speaking her truth.... saying what she felt and believed.... not saying what others want to hear her say.....

I was the one that stated that monogamous bi males is not the type of bi image that the bisexual community wants.... as it would lead for more partners saying, if they can be monogamous, why can't you

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 6:57 AM

You can applaud the woman for speaking her mind, but I'm still going to criticize the writer for not picking a quote that implied a more accepting tone. Like I said, I've got my own priorities when it comes to the piece and I recognize that they're different from those of the folks who wrote or were the subject of the piece, but that doesn't make them less valid.

I don't buy into this "Most bisexuals are promiscuous," story for a minute and no amount of personals ads are going to convince me anymore than a stack of police reports are going to convince me that black people are all criminals. I resent even having to make the denial.

Long Duck Dong

Jun 29, 2010, 7:01 AM

nods fair enuf..... you are gonna frown at the writer for using the womans words, not their own words..... and yes... believe what you want to believe. that most bi males are not promiscuous.......
btw do you want failed relationships and marriages cos of cheating / infidelity, filed under B for bullshit or M for myths

Pasadenacpl2

Jun 29, 2010, 8:35 AM

Yeah, I didn't like that. I realize what she probably meant is that it's just part of his overall personality and not something that seems unusual or out of the ordinary to her, but it comes off like it's something she has to tolerate or overlook to avoid friction in her marriage, not something she loves, celebrates, and accepts about him.

I thought her statement was genius. It's just a part of him. It is a part that can sometimes cause her grief, but it isn't something she is willing to get super emotional about.

Knowing how my wife feels about my bisexuality, I can relate. She accepts, she still loves me and that's a part of me, but it sometimes is something she only tolerates.

Pasa

csrakate

Jun 29, 2010, 8:54 AM

I thought her statement was genius. It's just a part of him. It is a part that can sometimes cause her grief, but it isn't something she is willing to get super emotional about.

Knowing how my wife feels about my bisexuality, I can relate. She accepts, she still loves me and that's a part of me, but it sometimes is something she only tolerates.

Pasa

I agree...that is how I interpreted it....I never took it that she negated the importance of his sexuality....just expressed how it is part of him that she accepts just as she would any other part of him.

littlerayofsunshine

Jun 29, 2010, 9:28 AM

I agree with Pasa and Kate...

I didn't take it as a slight or cold statement at all.... Maybe it's just I'm more laid back and easy going.. Or maybe because I just got through picking up my bisexual husbands underwear and socks off the floor while he poured me a touch more coffee, and then we kissed. It's just a part of Marriage that occurs without thinking and needs little processing because that is who we are and the roles we exude.

And Writers "technically" are supposed to be unbiased *chuckles*. One can assume she doesn't know any bisexual people or is not aware they are. And therefor relied on facts and statistics she uncovered through her research.

Going through the comments, All sides were touched in some way to respond and dialogue took place.. Which is what any person who writes an article would appreciate. People talking about it. And just one article is never going to change anyone's mind.. The idiots and bigots will still be, the bisexuals and bi friendly's will be.. For most people.. Unless it affects their own life, be though someone they love/care about or examining themselves, they just aren't going to change their way of thinking, no matter how many rainbows and unicorns and used... Its just a human trait..... The "Not in my Backyard" mentality.

Well, I might just recant a little on my previous statement.. If there were more thorough, psychological and medical journals done on bisexuality, more polls and studies.. Maybe that would change People's mind.. But an attention grabbing article done during pride month, probably won't.

She laid out the stereotypes, the wrote about something that is nothing like the stereotypes.. Showing that the stereotypes don't represent All Bisexuals.

Anyone is free to write on Op/Ed piece to a paper and try to get published if a bisexual wanted to write about themselves and the positive aspects and negative ones. That may have pleased more bisexuals and bi friendlies..

Overall, I say she did a fine job, considering the Media format, and knowing she was going to get ripped a lot for doing it. She didn't make it personal.. For the most part.

At least a lot of people talked about it, that probably didn't before.

rutemptedalso

Jun 29, 2010, 10:32 AM

Wow! This is really wierd. Just when I need it most. I recently told my wife about my attraction towards men. It's been tough trying to explain it all to her. We're still together and have been closer in many ways. She still thinks it will go away though. Maybe this will help her understand. Thanks a bunch!

void()

Jun 29, 2010, 1:01 PM

Oi darkeyes,

"I dont give a bugger what anyones sexuality is."

And while you say we may part company, mate, I kind of don't think so.
Understand your view about celebs playing a role. It's just that everyone is so inundated with them as to make the role disenchanted. We're bombarded with adverts either for products or ideas. That's where I was going. And sure a good celeb role model might be helpful but it's difficult to see it.

And I don't give a bugger either. Hell, Tchaikovsky genius that he was, was homosexual. Got my arse saved once in fire by a lesbian. Doesn't matta who or what ya be s'long as de job being done. speaking of jobs, wifey has called out for KP duty ... funny how I get the ever present short straw ... *sigh* oh well.

darkeyes

Jun 29, 2010, 1:39 PM

And while you say we may part company, mate, I kind of don't think so.
Understand your view about celebs playing a role. It's just that everyone is so inundated with them as to make the role disenchanted. We're bombarded with adverts either for products or ideas. That's where I was going. And sure a good celeb role model might be helpful but it's difficult to see it.

Once I used to give a bugger about their sexuality..while I was lusting and hoping and chasing and seducing,Voidie..tee hee.. I know I was naughty..but it was brill fun naughty..

and re celebs..your right.. except that the young arent yet disenchanted..those whose sexuality is well buttoned down because that is how the world is.. they still believe in the cult of personality.. and there are many others who are much older who are no different..you just have to read the adoration in some of the forums of the past to realise that..:) Not all celebs are bad role models.. a lot are. but then a lot of people in every walk of life are that..way of the world I'm afraid..

TamLin

Jun 29, 2010, 3:14 PM

nods fair enuf..... you are gonna frown at the writer for using the womans words, not their own words...

Hey, I've been a reporter, I know that that writer had hours' worth of notes and recordings from that couple and any one of at least a hundred takeaway quotes that could have been used in place of that one. When you pick a quote like that, you do it with intent and purpose.

btw do you want failed relationships and marriages cos of cheating / infidelity, filed under B for bullshit or M for myths

Well I'll file mine under "N" for "nonexistant" and I'll file others' under "H" for "human nature."

And Writers "technically" are supposed to be unbiased *chuckles*. One can assume she doesn't know any bisexual people or is not aware they are. And therefor relied on facts and statistics she uncovered through her research.

Impartiality is a myth, there's ALWYAYS bias that goes into journalism. I'm not saying that as a knock on the institution, it's just a fact, it's the way things have to be. The writer chose to spend her time on this story instead of any number of others, and there HAD to have been a reason for that, something that made her favor this couple and this article over any number of other things, so that's an inherent bias toward the subject matter right away, as a necessity.

This is particularly true in human interest pieces like this. This isn't hard news or breaking world events, but the writer and her editors have made a conscious decision that it's something important that people should know about, something presumably equally as important as the latest headlines out of Afghanistan or Gulf of Mexico, even if the importance is not as apparent.

That means there must be something they want to say with this piece, otherwise they wouldn't bother to run it. Soft news always has an agenda, particularly in the case of stories like this that deal with controversial subjects and "alternative" lifestyles, since you're risking alienating the more uptight of your readers by doing it and thus possibly undermining your bottom line as a business (which is the REAL hidden agenda in all journalism). So this isn't just a case of an objective, unbiased writer finding a story and reporting just the facts, there was a point of view here, and like I said, that's not a dig on journalism, that's the way these sorts of stories work.

Whether she knows any bisexuals or not I couldn't say, though I'd hate to think that anyone so worldly would have led such a sheltered life.

onewhocares

Jun 29, 2010, 5:57 PM

Forgot to mention to mention a couple of things......

I agree that the comments on the article did not give me a sense of us, as a society, is making progress to accept each person as an individual and their sexual orientation is not a big hoopla. It was sad in many respects to be honest.

As an aside...How does one comment on the article? I tried every way I could think of to no avail.

Also, what difference does Mr. Mann's sexual preference have to do with his ability to be a good and caring physician? His medical experience and education make him the fine doctor he may be and who he chooses to sleep with is no reflection on his qualification as a doctor.

Sorry if I am being too critical about the article.

Belle

void()

Jun 29, 2010, 6:37 PM

"ou just have to read the adoration in some of the forums of the past to realise that..

Eh, meh. Got a point there lady. One not argued against. In fact I can admit admiration of a few select 'stars'. And yes, I now, grasp a little better your point about the yougins as we call them here in the South. Those chillin be imitating apes, though ifin ye let em. :)

Not all celebs are bad role models.. a lot are. but then a lot of people in every walk of life are that..way of the world I'm afraid..

Oy vey mey rea 'tis the way o' Gia. *nods* I just still don't get where such an article is 'news' really. But hey I'm a curmudgeon and cynic at times, probably lots o' folk are the same."

n2b&d,

May I ask you here openly and politely to not use personal attacks. I may read you incorrectly but don't think so. Much appreciated if you ease off, as part of the forum regulations suggest you not use personal attacks. Thanks again. :)

onewhocares

Jun 29, 2010, 6:38 PM

She sounds like she's fine with her husband's bisexuality.

What would you prefer that she do? Ignore it? Pretend it's not there at all? Or not see his bisexuality as an aspect of him when it is? Think that it means that he's going to cheat on her or give her HIV?

He's bisexual and she's straight and their monogamous marriage works since they both have sexual satisfaction with each other and nobody else.

She's not married to a gay man in a marriage of convenience for both of them where the man does not want to really have sex or a relationship with the woman at all compared to sex and a relationship with a man for him, and the gay husband does not want to or really know how to please the woman sexually at all since he's gay.

BTW I read your profile onewhocares since your husband is gay why are you claiming that he's somehow gay and bisexual too which is impossible, and since you're with a gay man why are you lying in research studies that are written and designed only for people who are really bisexual?

The surveys do not apply to you or your gay husband since you're not in a bisexual relationship/bisexual marriage as he's not bisexual, and you are giving them false data and lying.

I am only commenting on MY impressions from the article. Perhaps it is my take on the article that if it were to have been a positive viewpoint, the wife may have conveyed a bit more positive impression...or perhaps devolved into the down side of a relationship with a bi/gay man. Perhaps she did make such comments and the editing process it was overlooked and not conveyed to the general audience.

I take homage to your comments that a gay man ( or bi man for that matter) may or may not be able to satisfy a woman. It is a wide spectrum of satisfaction where people can place themselves. Some fall on the total satisfied side and other on the not so much side. It is with any subject. Many differing viewpoints. It is up to each couple to decide.

I too took a look at our profile and unless my glasses need adjusting, in no place did I mention that my husband is gay. Oops...let me check again. Our Profile does not mention he is gay.

May I ask, what data are your referring to?

Belle

void()

Jun 29, 2010, 7:21 PM

Umbrage?

Sorry, writer / editor in me. Homage is like reverence or respect, umbrage is to take offense. Again, sorry.

onewhocares

Jun 29, 2010, 7:34 PM

Umbrage?

Sorry, writer / editor in me. Homage is like reverence or respect, umbrage is to take offense. Again, sorry.

I stand corrected Sir. I did use the incorrect word....must be these new bifocals...not able to see the H's and the U's worth a hill of beans. Best I consult a Thesaurus.

Belle

Long Duck Dong

Jun 30, 2010, 12:19 AM

Hey, I've been a reporter, I know that that writer had hours' worth of notes and recordings from that couple and any one of at least a hundred takeaway quotes that could have been used in place of that one. When you pick a quote like that, you do it with intent and purpose.

but the point remains, if that was her comment about her husbands sexuality and how she views it..... then its the right quote to use.....

you may have been a reporter.... but that doesn't mean its ok to misquote people for a * better image *......

the article really stated she supports her husband, her remark states how she sees his bisexuality..... not how she sees bisexuality

TamLin

Jun 30, 2010, 1:50 AM

but the point remains, if that was her comment about her husbands sexuality and how she views it..... then its the right quote to use.....

you may have been a reporter.... but that doesn't mean its ok to misquote people for a * better image *......

the article really stated she supports her husband, her remark states how she sees his bisexuality..... not how she sees bisexuality

I didn't say misquote her, I said use another quote, there's a difference. You've always got lots of material to work with, but only a little can actually go into an article. A reporter can create two completely different pieces with two completely different points of view without altering a single quote or taking one out of context. You choose the material you do depending on what you want the article to be about.

If the point of the article is to combat stereotypes, educate people about bisexuality, and portray a loving and supportive couple, which it clearly seems to be, then that wasn't the best quote to use (although the article still succeeds for the most part). On the other hand, if that's the most supportive thing she said in any interview and there was no better way to buttress the point of the piece without radically misrepresenting her views, then they probably weren't the best couple to profile.

I agree that the comments on the article did not give me a sense of us, as a society, is making progress to accept each person as an individual and their sexual orientation is not a big hoopla. It was sad in many respects to be honest.

To be fair, there are also lots of people leaving very supportive, intelligent, open minded comments to bat down the more ignorant ones.

Long Duck Dong

Jun 30, 2010, 2:48 AM

I didn't say misquote her, I said use another quote, there's a difference. You've always got lots of material to work with, but only a little can actually go into an article. A reporter can create two completely different pieces with two completely different points of view without altering a single quote or taking one out of context. You choose the material you do depending on what you want the article to be about.

If the point of the article is to combat stereotypes, educate people about bisexuality, and portray a loving and supportive couple, which it clearly seems to be, then that wasn't the best quote to use (although the article still succeeds for the most part). On the other hand, if that's the most supportive thing she said in any interview and there was no better way to buttress the point of the piece without radically misrepresenting her views, then they probably weren't the best couple to profile.

right so again its either change what she said,.... or choose a couple that expresses your point of view......

I said that earlier in the thread..... about the cookie cutter couples, the * prefect * couple....that present the * right * image......

all you are doing is proving what I said earlier in the thread.... its about presenting a image to people that the bisexual want people to see..... and you are enforcing that by saying the writer should have used other things than what she said...... but like I said.... whats wrong with the truth..... what she actually said....

TamLin

Jun 30, 2010, 3:03 AM

Long Duck Dong

Jun 30, 2010, 3:29 AM

Isn't the article about presenting bisexuality in a positive light? Isn't the article about educating people and undermining stereotypes? Is that not the intent? Did I misinterpret that? Were they going for something completely different?

Assuming that I am not way off the mark and that that is indeed the underlying motivation in this piece, then what's "wrong" with that quote is that it runs contrary to those goals. It doesn't help. It defeats the writer's own intent. Another quote or another couple, one that would have better supported the argument that the article is making, would have been the smarter choice, and been equally as true.

if you want to portray bisexuality.... use a bisexual person.... if you want to portray bisexuality in a marriage between two partners, one straight, one bi.... use two partners, one bi, one straight

she is talking about her view as a straight person, about her husbands bisexuality.... not bisexuality in general...... and she is making the statement that she doesn't view it as a issue that annoys her or upsets her like him not taking out the trash or leaving dirty socks on the floor....
sure he is bisexual.... so what... its a aspect of the man I love... its not the whole of the man I love