Why/What I do/don't protest [Archive]

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tenni

Jun 25, 2010, 5:52 PM

Well, the G8 meetings have started in my province. So many aspects to this as the world leaders gather first with the G8 and then the G20. Toronto is reported to be shut down in the downtown. Some obscure law has been extended by the provincial government giving police some strong stop and search rights. Unusual arrests are being made as the police take no chances. As mentioned the costs for security are now reported to be 1.3 billion. Protests have started and are so far peaceful.
My question to you is:

Why/why not protest?
What would you stand up and protest and what format would you use?

Below are the abbreviated words of a Torontonian as she explains why she protests.

I am a protester. I believe in the power of mass groups of people gathering to stand up for an issue that would otherwise be invisible. I was there in Seattle in 1999 in the rise-up against the World Trade Organization, and in Quebec City for the protest against the Free Trade Area of the Americas in 2001.
Over lunch one day with a seasoned union activist, I heard for the first time the idea of global economic agreements, institutions and decisions having an effect on what was happening in our own backyard. It felt like a log was being thrown to me, and that rather than drown I could find a way to stay afloat.
I began to question how much impact these mass protests were having on decisions being made. Should I just accept that inequity was the name of the global economic game and make peace with it? There were enough people encouraging me to move beyond my “rebel” phase and accept this truth about the world. Yet my heart wouldn’t have it. Certain moments were locked away in that most irrational of organs that kept pulling me back when my head began to stray.
What I learned is that mass protests do something that few other strategies achieve. When groups of people gather with clear purpose, there is an intangible force created. It’s the heart’s cry, echoed through the ages, for freedom, truth and justice to have open space for expression.
I am a Torontonian. I live in this city that is to be host to the G20 this weekend. And I am planning to protest. I will bring my face paint, banners and signs down to Queen’s Park. I will put my body on the line to march against this inequitable system where 20 nations make decisions affecting the whole world.
Yet this time, instead of being supported in my right to protest, I find myself explaining why I am legitimate, why I am not engaged in a terrorist act, and how many of our treasured Canadian social programs and rights that we take for granted resulted from people fighting for a better world.
My head can’t help but feel despair of ever reaching that world where decisions are truly democratic, where eradicating poverty is more important than furthering profit, and human rights matter more than the rights of capital. And yet my heart reminds me that magic is still possible. Even surrounded by fear and fences, hope and passion for an equitable and democratic world can yet be set free.

Annahid Dashtgard lives in Toronto.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/facts-and-arguments/why-i-will-protest-at-the-g20/article1616661/

Long Duck Dong

Jun 25, 2010, 9:37 PM

to protest or not to protest.... this is the question lol

I have protested in the past.... well, walked in support of, is a better term..... the cause was the civil union bill in nz..... and I walked in support because it raised lgbt rights up along with heterosexual rights, to have a marriage style union....
the civil union was a non religion based marriage style union and applied to ALL nz'ers..... not just the lgbt.....
so i supported it...... in the same way I support my fellow nz'ers, not just the lgbt......

generally I am not a protestor....not cos I do not believe in the cause but cos I do not see how it is of benefit to nz and nz'ers

equally tho I walk along side the vets of ww1( tho they are all resting now ) and ww2 and nam and korea on anzac day in nz...... and the activists and protestors want to turn that day into a day of anti war protest.....
yet the day is a day to honour and pay tribute to people that gave it everything, so many could have something......
it is not about glorifying war.... its about saying thank you for ending ww1 and ww2 and giving us the future we have now........

moving on..... protest is a stronger form of free speech, the right to raise voices about things that others feel strongly about...... yet, its what they feel strongly about and well protestors and activists can feel strongly about things that they believe, should be changed as they do not agree with it......
that doesn't make protest right or wrong, but it can make fools of people
in nz, the maori have protested and protested over their rights and compensation.... people say its right that they fight for their rights..... and thats truth..... but now they fight for seperation and seperate rights based around race.... the same thing that was fought against, in south africa...

I would stand again, for basic human rights for every person..... the rights to food, shelter a wage, healthcare etc..... as each person is entitled to that....
but I am a balanced rights protestor ( when i protest )...a cop hits me with a baton and I have done nothing wrong, I will take the baton off him and hit him with it......
however... I see a protestor laying into a cop with a metal bar for no reason, quess what protestor is gonna get a metal bar shoved up his ass.....
the cops are human too and doing a job..... its called law enforcement....

the right to protest and peaceful free speech needs to be balanced with the right to obey the law, respect the law and respect those that enforce the law......... that is often where protestors cease to protest and turn to riots...... and that is why I will not walk with most protests or protestors....

DuckiesDarling

Jun 26, 2010, 3:12 AM

Why/Why not protest? Hmmm loaded question.

I believe in the value of peaceful demonstrations and having your voice heard. I don't believe that any voice is heard that only speaks in screams. It would have to be for something where I not only believed in the cause but also could see benefits for all.

I do not agree with protestors like the Sea Shepherd who throw rancid butter at other human beings because they think a whale is more valuable than a human.

I do not agree with protestors driving spikes into trees so that loggers lose their limbs or their lives.

I do not agree with protestors becoming vigilantes in the case of PETA and their red paint on fur coats.

I do agree with the protestors who calmly make a stand.

So to sum it up, I would protest if it was something that benefited all people. I would not protest in any way that would actually break a law as I have more respect for laws than that.

I would not sit by and watch people abused because they are protestors but I would not lift a finger to help if their own mouths wrote checks their asses couldn't cash.

In short, the right to protest is as old as any governement on earth. Without protestors changes would not ever happen, but at the same time there are protests that are just without good cause. Some protest because it's their life and they would protest anything. Some protest to get publicity some protest to protest the protesters. But without doing it in a way that would actually make a difference and not endanger the livelihood and lives of others for nothing. Nothing is more valuable than human life. And that is what I will fight to save.

darkeyes

Jun 26, 2010, 4:40 AM

When I see injustice I protest.. when I see conflict I protest.. when I see poverty I protest.. when I see corruption I protest.. when I see dishonesty I protest.. when I see cruelty I protest.. when I see the rape of our world I protest.. when I see any ill in our world I protest...

..protest must be peaceful.. it must never be violent or threaten a single hair on a human head.. it should be good humoured.. yet it must be strong and not waver in the face of intimidation by the forces of the state or anyone else.. it must never be the cause of violence, and if violence there be it must be shown just who is at fault.. while the law should normally be obeyed, only in the most extreme cases of unjust law should the law be broken, yet still without violence.. march on and always remember a single protest is but that and in itself unlikely to change a thing.. but as part of an overall campaign it can be a true catalyst of change for there are many different forms of peaceful protest, all of which must be used when necessary to achieve its aim..

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 8:02 AM

Ah, the usual suspects speak on this issue. Thank you. Over the decades my belief in the success to make change by protesting has dimmed. There was a time when I believed in protest much stronger than I do today. The most significant thing that I will stand up to protest is if I perceive injustice. I do agree with such causes as "Save the Whales" and environmental issues. I have not stood up to protest these issues though. I have not lifted my pen to write about them to my legislative assembly.

I still have some belief in signing a petition but not as convinced that it works as I once use to. I have decided not to go to protest at the G20. I see no point. My opinion about protesting poverty and connected issues is not strong at all. The further away the issues are from my own personal surroundings or direct impact the less than I am now inclined to protest.

The last time that I was aroused sufficiently to rally protest was this past winter. I was enranged enough because I saw what was going on politically in my country as unjust. I wrote to politicians. I joined Facebook petitions. It became quite vocal and the numbers increased over prorogation of Parliament. I was not sure how much change that it would bring but it was a serious enough political issue that I believed that democracy was being affected. In the cold of winter, I did hit the street so to speak. I attended a national day of protest. It looked puny and weak where I went but I knew that nationally there was a voice. It was peaceful. The speakers were uninspiring. It might have been more exciting if I had attended the rally in a different city but I was not that committed to get up early enough to travel there. It was right to stand up for democracy. I feel good about doing it.

The time when I believed that I would be violent if the situation moved in that direction was another issue of my country. I was much younger then. The issue had to do with whether my country might split up. If the situation grew stronger, I stated that I would join a violent protest. I had no idea how or if I would because the situation did not go further along that route.

I've protested politically in a slightly different way. I travelled to the USSR at a time when some in the West saw Russia as evil. I was challenged and almost ridiculed when I came back and dared to speak positively about having gone there. I saw a form of injustice when people spoke negatively about a society that I had found positive. To speak out and to physically go to find out what is really going on is a form of protest.

I would write that my idealism has diminished over time but I do believe in protest for change. I've done it in a variety of ways and over a variety of causes over my life. I've done it in small ways and large gathering ways. I've shown my support for change as recently as Thursday when I attended a meeting that was reporting on the arts and municipal governments need to listen to artists. I had been involved in the question for more than ten years. Some of the things that I was involved in were reported. I no longer was attending meetings over it but I went to show my support in the cause.

Once we covered all public art in the downtown without city hall permission. We did it in the middle of the night. Civic employees removed the cloth by 9 am. Not a lot of people saw it...but we did it to show what we believed in public art and without artists in the community, the community would be diminished. Another time, I was involved in an underground art review rag. It was all done in secrecy and was quite satirically biting on the art politics of the community. The other artists thought that it was witty and funny....until we slammed them. We pissed off some of the art politicians...lol This too is a form of protest.

I'm also working towards an event that is more than a year away. I've attended planning meetings for a year already. My conviction has wavered and I'm not sure if it will work. It is about the economy and culture in my area. I see this as a positive form of protest. It is a form of involvement that I have done all of my life. By becoming involved in making change is as important as hitting the streets.

As an artist much of my work deals with social change. I protest through my art. My art speaks about social justice at times. It also speaks about idealized issues. It does not tend to deal with the same broader issues such as the environment on one hand and on the other hand it does. My artistic voice is less confrontational these days than what it was but the issues are still being expressed. I find that my art deals with the environmental issues and probably will for the foreseeable future. I have these abilities and so I use them.

I protest on this site. ..lol not much good but ....

darkeyes

Jun 26, 2010, 8:19 AM

It is simple Tenni me luffly..without protest and campaigns of protest more importantly, there is no change.. save of course for those changes which those who exercise power whether it be in politics, burocracy or commercial life deem fit.. not because it is good for the masses, but because it is good for those with power..and so without protest, our world becomes so much more unbearable to live in, for we have no control whatsoever over our lives and this beautiful world in which we live. We have surrendered our right to have any say in our future.. and remember.. in our western societies at least, the ballot box is one of the most powerful protests and the greatest catalysts for change we have.. I say that not because I am enamoured with our so called democratic way of life, for I patently am not, but because for all its limitations it remains true... even if that change is often not change we would wish for and certainly have a very limited ability to control..and so..against the change which our democratic protest brings, very often we have no alternative but to protest in other ways...

Long Duck Dong

Jun 26, 2010, 8:33 AM

I have the opinion that there is too many people saying, change things.... yet not enuf doing anything to change things

its like the oil spill.... its turning into a nightmare and everybody is slamming BP and obama and saying do something...... yet.... how many of them are helping with the clean up and how many of them are doing the arm chair protesting....

yes protest can bring change.... but protest lost a lot of power and support, when everything started to be protested.....

back in nam days, the nz vets were told, when you got on the bus, you were in uniform, when you get off the bus, be in civilian kit, and do not told anybody where you have been..... cos they hate your guts, they think you are fuckin baby killers and they are too stupid to realise that you had nothing to do with the my lai massacre and other issues, they just want a target and a reason to justify their stance, and you are it.....

tonight I watched a program on tv.... about the neo nazis parading in the us.... and yes they have the right to parade and are covered under free speech..... they agreed to being bussed in, checked for any illegal arms or drugs, etc...... and they were protected by riot police and other police with batons etc.....
what were they protected from ??? the anti facist protestors... 4 of whom were arrested for assault and one for carrying a concealed weapon ( pepper spray )....

I am not against protesting, as I have stated..... yet, I have watched things being justified IE the prom thread.... its ok for one person to cost a school their prom and go on to become a symbol of lgbt rights, go on a chat show, get 30k and a internship, go to the white house..... etc etc....
and I watch students that hold their own prom, get slammed to hell
.... but its collateral damage... its ok if the students lose the prom.... cos its about one persons right to go to the prom with their partner ( who incidentally never went to another arranged prom ) and its called lgbt rights.....

what happened to the fight for civil rights for people of color... what happened to the lgbt pride movement..... what happened to genuine protest that was for people ....

the right to protest is something I support.... the reason for protesting exists in peoples heads..... and often now.... its cos they want to see their view of things enforced cos its what they believe is right....... not cos its right or it benefits people, but cos they believe they are right and thats a reason to protest.....

as with the oil spills....well protest all you want.... it doesn't clean the oil up any faster.... but a few 1000 protestors helping out with the clean up of the animals, birds and shores, would make a bigger difference than a few 1000 protestors waving banners and chanting....

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 8:34 AM

I agree with you darkeyes as far as the power of the vote and using it. I have never not voted whether municipally, provincially or nationally. Even when I do not believe that my vote will change the political landscape of my country, I vote. I will admit to voting strategically. I'm a political slut. I do not adhere to my own personal political beliefs as much as voting for the person whose party has the best chance of being elected and closest to my beliefs. The ability to vote for multi parties is great fun. I feel sorry for the US people with having only two options to vote for. Britain, Canada, NZ and Australia give us more choices to protest politically via the vote. Voting out a political party that has screwed up is democratic and great fun if you can kick butt by doing so.

Right now, Canadians and the Brits have protested the various political parties inadequacies by refusing to give any one party the power of majority. :bigrin:

darkeyes

Jun 26, 2010, 8:39 AM

..and Tenni.. I am sorry if your ideals are somewhat dimmed.. ideals are not simply for ourselves but for those who come after..that our ideals are not achieved in our lifetime is important to us but not in the greater scheme of things.. the ideals we pass on will be carried like the torch they are by our successors and in time so many will come to pass.. I am an idealist.. that few if any have ever come to pass in my lfietime has never diminished my passion for them or my conviction of the right of them.. what matters is that the ideal remains bright and in our hearts to enable those who will pick up that torch, however dim or bright it may be, and carry it for future generations themselves.

My ideals remain undimished, which is not to say that I do not often get frustrated or depressed that there seems no progress or even that there have been reverses.. our ideals, beliefs and passions mark us out as who we are.. never lose sight of them and never despair for them.. never allow that bright torch to be extinguished, for by doing so we fail not only ourselves, but those yet to be..

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 8:44 AM

Long Duck Dong

Jun 26, 2010, 8:59 AM

LDD
I thought that more on this site would have commented about protesting for sexual orientation and rights that they thought should be stood up for. As far as race, there still is injustice. I see indigenous people as a group that has suffered from injustice. I will stand by them if I know them personally. I would go to rally for them if I knew them personally. I am less inclined to do so if I do not personally know some of them at the rally. I should feel ashamed for acting that way but as you write there are so many causes that we could protest for.

it took a atheist, female that was childless and only married for her career, to get the civil union bill up and signed in nz.... most of the government was opposed to equal rights for its own people
helen clark now heads the human rights and welfare division part of the UN, partly cos of that decision she made......

its strange in my eyes that a person that doesn't believe in lgbt, marriage or the right to adopt children.... helped give us those rights in nz.....

unfortunately, in nz, the protests in support of it.... didn't actually do anything..... the only thing that made a difference in the government vote, was the fear of the members of parliament losing their jobs, not cos of the public vote, but cos of the stance of their party leader, helen clark.....

we have MMP in new zealand, ( mixed member proportational ) a voting system that is about as good as a condom with holes in it )

the way it works is we have 37 political parties, 7 main ones... and for a country of 4.5 mill people.... 133 politicians....
we vote for a electorate ( district / state etc ) and we also get a vote for a party......
so... a party that wins no electorate seats can still get into goverment anyway under the party vote......

the majority seat / party vote handler, then creates a hybrid goverment with other parties.... and agrees to a confidence and supply vote.....
or simply, if you kiss our ass, we will give out votes for your laws to be passed

the greens party had no seats, yet in a hybrid government, got thru a law that removed a parents right to discipline their kids... and made it illegal to smack your kids....

nz hit the roof over that and a petition was created ( more than 250,00 voters signed it ) ... it went to the government and they shrugged and said... you protested, you signed a petition.... and your point is ??? the law remains unchanged.... smack your kids and you will end up in court....

so we can speak with our votes.... yet... we can not change anything... as the government will continue to pussyfoot around and make back room deals with other parties cos they know they have the power to do that, and nothing nz can do, will change it.....

we even did a petition to reduce the number of politicians from 127 to 100.... lol the government ripped it up and added 6 more politicians to the government.....

so much for the power of protest.....

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 9:11 AM

Very interesting.
There is much talk here amongst progressive thinkers about proportional elections. It is seen as a more just representation of the will of the people. Yet, LDD reports that it has permitted a party that does not get "last to the post" Parliamentary seats putting through a policy that many in NZ do not support? I will guess that the Greens did not state as their platform that they would do this?....lol

I believe that some US states like California have some form of petitions having some weight in making government decisions. I'm not convinced that they are the best either as is indicated by the vote on same sex relations.

Is there no democratic way that works?...lol Maybe not in all circumstances..?

darkeyes

Jun 26, 2010, 9:32 AM

No system of government is perfect.. authoritarian or what we call democratic.. not even a democratic system of government which allows every human being a vote and a say on every issue, every law and every decision.. why? Because whatever the system, whatever the decision making process, there will always be mistakes made and wrong decisions taken and there will always be dissenting voices.. and as long as there are dissenting voices, mistakes made and wrong decisions taken, then no system can be perfect.

..but what we can do is to devise a system which works as democratically as we can make it, to involve all people as much as is required to ensure that they feel empowered, and ensure that no one feels disenfranchised and divorced from that process.. and that is difficult enough..but that is not impossible...

..and there will still be a need for protest...

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 12:55 PM

The G20 protest is about to start. Speeches in a park (Allan Gardens) are to begin within ten minutes or so. After the speeches, it is reported that the protesters will begin to march down the main street of Toronto. They are suppose to turn at a corner and return to the park. Some protesters have stated that they will not turn but continue down the street to the 3+ metre tall fence(over 9 feet). It is raining and wet. That may work in the favour of keeping things quieter but protesters have been in the park overnight. Hopefully, the protesters who have stated that they will not turn back will change their minds and not have a confrontation with police. Even if they march to the fence, hopefully they remain peaceful. I expect that some anarchists are going to try something. The question is how many arnachist are mixed in with the peaceful protesters.

With the new enforcement of an unknown law, the police were in a confrontation and arrested one man yesterday amongst others. Apparently, he is deaf and has been taken to a large holding area in east Toronto. He can not speak or read lips and relies of sign language. Some claim that he was not part of the protest. Some protesters spent most of the night outside of the area where he was kept. Until Monday, it is reported that the law states that all citizens are expected to permit the police to search their body and personal property if asked. I don't know if this is just in Toronto or all over the province. It should be just Toronto.

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 3:56 PM

Presently, the protest has started to turn ugly. Bricks have been thrown at a CBCnewsworld van but no one was injured. Several police cars have been damaged. One has been set on fire in the heart of the financial district of Toronto. The protesters have turned their direction to a street well outside of where the G20 are meeting. Reports from some protesters refer to feeling under seige in a police state all week. Remember that 1.3 billion has been spent. Police in some areas have put on their pull down helmets. There has been a warning that tear gas may be used.

There is a group calling themselves Black Block making themselves visible. They arrived in normal clothes and then changed to black including masking their faces. Most TV reports show them as being peaceful protest.

Tear gas has now been reported as being fired at Adelaide and Bay( edge part of the Financial district) The protesters are spreading out and are approaching the outer perimeters of the G20 blockade. The actual number of protesters has reduced. It may be the violent ones are the only ones left. The tension has increased.

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 4:56 PM

There are reported various groups marching in various parts of downtown Toronto. Some are very peaceful. They are chanting "our streets"
"down with the wall". Some minority groups wandered towards Yonge where there are tourist areas such as the Eaton's Centre. Various stores have had broken window. One reporter stated that it looked like known US business stores have had their windows broken. It has been closed and now people who worked or were there are stuck wandering the streets as well. Average citizens not even protesting came down to take a look and add to the confusion. Two protesters have had head injuries from police batons. One had his head cut down to the skull bone. Some splinter groups are trying to break through the outer barriers. It is like the splinter groups are there to splinter the police action.

citystyleguy

Jun 26, 2010, 4:57 PM

one of the fundamental principles of a strong democratic republic is the activist citizen; always, constantly, and educated! knee-jerk populism is one of the first steps the enemies of the said republic utilize to bring the down the political system, in the ancient practice of divide and conquer.

there are many options for the practice of political activism, but couch potato's are just a whole lot of noise, signifying the ability of pushing hot air out of another orifice.

may our republic be free for the expression of diversity and activism!

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 5:23 PM

Reports are coming in that a variety of approaches of protest and police action are being used. The social network is being used. Tweeting is being used both by protestors to get the word out to media and each other as well as being monitored by the police and media. Many of the protestors are caring cameras and documenting what is happening. Reports that the police cars left on the street are decoys.

It has been tweeted that the Black Bloc is a tactic of protest and not a group. Protest groups come together at a location and then split after a certain period. A large group has appeared at a police blockade and are chanting "let us in". There is an ebb and flow but who or if someone is co ordinating the protest in this way is unknown. A man at the blockade is speaking with a megaphone but funny comments directed at the police.

tenni

Jun 26, 2010, 8:37 PM

What is going on is disgusting. There are holigans burning police cars. There are live shots of the police line approaching what seems to be peaceful people. Some are just walking on a street. The people are being pushed back from an area that was suppose to be set up for peaceful comments that would be sent via camera inside the protected area for G20 people to see/hear the people. It is rather frightening to watch the police lines but I suppose that they should look that way. I'm glad that I didn't go. I would not be able to get out of the area as all transportation has been stopped.

If they want to hold a G8 or G20 in your area, protest and say NO!

Long Duck Dong

Jun 26, 2010, 9:44 PM