can a person love and be loved by more than one person?

[mikey3000]

Is it fair to expect just one person to fulfill every single emotional need we have for the rest of our lives, and expect the same from that person? As humans can we not love and be loved by more than one person at a time? Is this our job as spouses?

[Annika L]

Is it fair to expect just one person to fulfill every single emotional need we have for the rest of our lives, and expect the same from that person? As humans can we not love and be loved by more than one person at a time? Is this our job as spouses?

Mikey, your title and your post ask two separate questions, so I'll address both.

*Can* a person love and be loved by more than one person? My personal belief and experience is yes, we can. There is no reason why we should not be able to...love is about intimacy and sharing and caring, and there is simply no reason why that *must* be limited to one person only.

Is it *fair* to expect such a thing? No, probably not fair to expect that one person will fulfill *every* emotional need for the rest of our lives. If you commit to a monogamous life, then it's probably only realistic to expect that some needs will go unmet, or that you'll have to find a way to meet some yourself or compensate in some other way (no, this does not advocate cheating...that's cheating...which is why it's called cheating).

To me, this is what people need to consider *before* committing to a monogamous relationship of any kind. Because once a person makes such a commitment, then it is *completely* fair for each partner to expect the other to hold to that agreement, regardless of whether *all* emotional needs are being met. If you don't think you can manage that, and you respect your partner, and you give a damn about ethics, then you should stay far away from monogamous expectations.

I am currently in a longterm monogamous relationship. I entered into it thoughtfully...but naively and at a young age. Over the past 24 years of this relationship, I have learned that I am indeed capable of loving others, and in fact have a strong tendency to do so...doing so *emotionally* causes no problem...but sharing a physical component of intimacy with others with whom an emotional bond exists would violate the understanding I have with my partner. This can cause frustration at times...but unless and until our understanding changes, I'll continue to do my damndest not to violate my partner's trust...which is no more nor less than I expect from her.

[darkeyes]

Yes.. and yes...

[mikey3000]

I'm not talking sex here. I'm talking emotional needs, ie, like a husband hanging out with his buds, or the wife having her girlfriends. Should a couple have their own friends aside form their spouse, or should that spouse be all that is required, with no other close friendships required?

[tenni]

Is it fair to expect just one person to fulfill every single emotional need we have for the rest of our lives, and expect the same from that person?
No
As humans can we not love and be loved by more than one person at a time?
Yes


Is this our job as spouses?
Please expand upon this a bit more.

Whether the relationship between non spouses is sexual or not, I think that it can indicate a suffocating type of possessiveness for any one person to expect to have all their needs met by just one other human.

Men tend to let their male friendships slip away once married unless they countinue some common activity such as a sport team. Sometimes it may be the wife demanding the man's attention universally or merely lazy social skills on the man's part to maintain his male friendships. I know one guy who would say that if he wife didn't plan social events and get togethers nothing would be happening in his life...lol Men tend to socialize based upon a common activity rather than emotional needs.

In fact, the general population of North American men are a bit fearful of being seen as too affectionate towards other men . That may be a bit of homophobia. Still, men can develop non sexual affection for their male friends but rarely demonstrate it too visibly. If anything, a guy may show affection towards a male friend with negative put downs that he knows the man will see as a joke. In a strange way men show affection towards their male friends with put downs more than saying I love ya man...lol. Hugging between men seems to be coming a more common expression of affection than it once way...maybe? It is often a side hug or shoulder bump.

Women tend to be more comfortable showing a physical affection towards other women and work more on a friendship relationship than many men. It is all individual though.

For whatever reason, in spousal situations where one spouse dies and the other spouse finds themselves totally without friends is a sign where the two either met all of their emotional needs or developed a rather intertwined co dependency to the point of excluding other humans outside of their family. Men who retire often find themselves in such an isolated position as well..sometimes to the point of irritation for the wife...lol

[DuckiesDarling]

I'm not talking sex here. I'm talking emotional needs, ie, like a husband hanging out with his buds, or the wife having her girlfriends. Should a couple have their own friends aside form their spouse, or should that spouse be all that is required, with no other close friendships required?

Not sure what you mean if you aren't talking about emotional attachments that can lead to sex. Yes you can have other friends besides your partner. Ideally you'd all hang out together and in a perfect world there would be no jealousy. But as was posted in another thread, sometimes the emotional cheating isn't so much sex as it is completely ignoring your partner in favor of football night with the guys every night. So it's just a subjective question. Honestly, there is moderation in a lot of things, friends are great but when they actually come between you and your partner that's when issues arise.

[Long Duck Dong]

I have sat here going over and over this in my head.....

I tend to agree with annika..... yes a person can love and be allowed by other people

is it fair to expect one person to fulfill your emotional needs, no, its ok to hope, but its a two way thing, can we fulfill others emotional needs on the same level as ours need fulfilling

in a relationship aspect however, we often find that we are expected to fulfill emotional needs, and thats awkward as not everybody will be able to do that.... some people can, some can't.... and so some people need numerous sources of emotional support, some don't.....

I find myself in a awkward situation cos of my dysthimia, I have a limited emotional range.... and I can not feel or express love as a emotion....
so I say to my partners that I express love thru actions, ie support, caring, loyalty...and I do that.....

but that does create issues when a partner wants to be the special one and only, and I am not able to feel or express love as a multi leveled emotion beyond the same feelings I would have for a close, dear friend and a family member.....
they are asking me to fulfill a emotional need and desire they have, that is not possible for me to do....... and yet that seems to be more important to a partner, than a partner that would be faithful, honest, loyal and caring, no matter what happens.....

so yes in a way it appears that in a relationship, its expected that you fulfill their emotional needs and desires.... and to not do so or be able to do so, can be seen as not acceptable

[darkeyes]

I adore my partner as I have oft said in these pages.. she is my life partner, lover, companion,friend, inspiration and emotional prop. As I think I am to her. We have, have had, and will have difficulties throughout our life together but these six things cover what we are to each other..

..yet Duckie is right when he says no single person can provide everything no matter how deeply we are in love with the person we have decided to spend our life with. I have a deep emotional attachment to family and to friends.. one friend in particular. We have never been lovers, but of all the human beings on this planet she is the one apart from my partner I love more than any other. She provides me with everything I can have from a best friend, including a detached view of me and of my relationship with Kate which we can't possibly have. In the dozen or so years we have known each other we have dug each other out of more holes than I care to think about, and have helped each other through crisis after crisis.. we are each other's greatest critic and as best friends do we are always there when needed. My other friends provide me with similar things to some degree as friends should but none has quite the inner view of me of either Kate or my best friend. But I need them. I need them all, and love them all, because we cannot, or at least should not live in isolation and we need to have friends who are at once our support and also our critic.. these friendships by their very nature help us survive and they also prevent us from becoming too partner obsessed.. with the dangers that causes.. they, as with close family ties, help provide for us a stability in our lives, at least mine do, which I think everyone needs..

..should we allow ourselves and our partner to be loved by another? or others? Physically and sexually and emotionally? I have never seen why we should not. It very much depends on who we are and how we think. For some it is the road to ruin in their own relationship, for others a scource of immense joy. Kate knows how I feel about this and if she took a lover, or lovers, male or female it is something I could live with quite easily and without rancour. I would even be prepared to share in such relationships if that was her wish. I do not own her and have no wish to do so.. our commitment to each other is absolute and while I recognise the dangers of such a change in our relationship, it is in my view no more than it is within the arrangemnt as it is now.. people do live monogamously and stray..and parnerships break up.. I am secure in our relationship and if Kate ever agreed to opening it up, I would have few fears, but we would both have a helluva a lot of fun.

Can we be in love with more than one person at the same time? Easily. I have been. Am. We are complex beings and falling in love is something we do well.. it is also something we dont preserve well, but that depends on the individual. I am in love with my partner but also am in love with another but that will never be. It could have been but it never was, and it was the catalyst to a long seperation between Kate and I which made me both miserable and self destructive. Kate is emotionally inacapable of living with one who she feels is unable to devote themselves to her and the children without the distraction of outside sexual and emotional love interests. She believes in one to one throughout her life with me and no one outside to ruin it. Exclusivity..it is her way and her belief..Some may argue that to be selfish, I certainly don't..it is how she is and I respect it.. my life without her was a bloody site more miserable than my life has been without another lover or going out shagging around. I miss it that aspect of my life sure, but what is most important to me? When I answer that question, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever..

Being in love with more than one person carries risks like any other event our lives, especially if we are living with someone else with whom we are in love. How we are able to deal with that marks us out as the person we are.. I deal with it my way, and it works. Others will in there own way, and for some how they deal with it works and others it is a disaster.. much is to do with upbringing and how that affects the psyche.. it isn't aways easy but for most of us it is always possible being in love with more than one person..

[mikey3000]

Wonderful answers, all of you!!! Thank you very much.

[RobUK]

One thing I don't understand is why people can have several friends but only one lover (well, people can have more than lover, but this is generally frowned upon and called 'cheating').

People normally have several friends, we 'love' them, but in a non-sexual way. This is not considered cheating.

However, people aren't supposed to have than one lover - is this the same 'love' that one shares with a friend? What gives it the extra 'exclusivity' condition?

Is it the added sexual dimension? In that case, does that make masturbation and pornography cheating? I've read on here that it's because sexual contact leads to a more intimate relationship between two people? But isn't two men who meet up at the pub for a drink once a week, or playing alongside each-other in a local sports team leading to more intimacy between the two guys?

Or is the requirement, often stated in a marriage ceremony, but otherwise rarely expressed out loud, the only reason why this type of relationship is 'exclusive'? If it is that, what if a couple never say it out loud? Is it just assumed'? Why should fidelity be assumed, but an 'open relationship' needs to be explicitly agreed on?

I know this sounds a load of dumb questions, but I've never really thought about it before...

[tenni]

Well Rob post 11
There will probably be a lot of the monogomist groupies coming out if full force with their "cheating is bad" "it is the deception that is wrong" mantras. Duck....:bigrin:

Some on this thread have already stated that non sexual love is acceptable and you may love more than one person. I think that it is based on heterosexual belief structures that society is built on. These belief structures may be based upon the traditional needs of child rearing etc. The concept of exclusivity can raise its head in non sexual relationships but it is easier to legally dumb such a "friend" than a sexual partner who demands exclusivity and becomes smotheringly possessive. It may also be argued that your non sexual friends are aware of the other friends. Multi sexual friends are frowned upon in our societies and such a person is deemed a harlot or some such thing...:rolleyes: A person who is very open to having multi sexual friends/lovers is looked down on in our societies. Add to that multi sexual friends/lovers of both genders and the top comes of the kettle.

It may be that jealousy and insecurity are stronger in sexual love situations based upon hetero sexual societal beliefs? I suspect that it is a rather strong hetero belief structure that blinds some to accept easily that you may love sexually more than one. It does seem that the default position is exclusivity for sexual lovers and non exclusivity for non sexual lovers....we of course do not call them lovers but friends.

[RobUK]

TY Tenni

(It's nice not to have some moronic answer [x=y. because x=y PERIOD] for once!)

I wonder, if this is because of traditions in society, as all traditions change (sooner or later), whether our preconceptions of what is (and what is not) to be expected in a relationship will change as well...
;)

[tenni]

I do not see that happening very quickly Rob. Sexual exclusivity is a very deeply rooted hetero main stream societal belief when it comes to love. Add bisexuality to any love scenario rather than monosexuality (hetero or gay) and it becomes even more complicated taboo laden issues.

A funny thing is entering my head as I write these thoughts...I feel that the character from Sex in the City , Samantha is whispering in my ear....lol Sluts unite sort of thing...lol

[allbimyself]

One thing I don't understand is why people can have several friends but only one lover (well, people can have more than lover, but this is generally frowned upon and called 'cheating').

No, it's not. I dare you to find one instance of anyone saying that having multiple lovers is, in and of itself, "cheating."

Anyone can have all the lovers they want and not be cheating UNLESS one or more of those lovers believes that they are in a monogamous relationship with that person.

Why is that so hard to understand?

You guys don't like monogamy. Great! You should live your life how you want. However, when you deceive others to do so you are wrong. End of story.

When you are in a sexual relationship and you ALLOW that person to believe the relationship is monogamous, yet you are having sex with others, THAT is cheating. If they know and agree to not be monogamous, it isn't. Sheesh, this isn't rocket science.

[tenni]

hmm

A little touchy, sensitive there all ...lol

There would be no need for a concept called cheat if the society did not focus on monogomy as much as it does. Extreme monogomy may result in discouraging non sexual friendships as well.

[DuckiesDarling]

hmm

A little touchy, sensitive there all ...lol

There would be no need for a concept called cheat if the society did not focus on monogomy as much as it does. Extreme monogomy may result in discouraging non sexual friendships as well.

I don't believe that for a minute. You aren't talking monogamy when you get into "can't have friends" you are talking slavery. They are not mutual concepts.

[darkeyes]

hmm

A little touchy, sensitive there all ...lol

There would be no need for a concept called cheat if the society did not focus on monogomy as much as it does. Extreme monogomy may result in discouraging non sexual friendships as well.

The concept of the cheat would exist whether every human being was exclusive to their partner or not Tenni.. it is not monogamy in any way shape or form which discourages non sexual relationships..but possessiveness, which can happen even in some form or other in open relationships..trust me.. Ive seen it on more than one occasion.. Ive even had a slap in the face because of it...

..and why is it that so many of us sort of look down on those who believe in fidelity? It is a valid human way to live... I may prefer to live other than monagamously but have accepted it for for reasons I have explained, but believing in monagamy and sexual fidelity are equally valid concepts with the alternatives. They are not as you put it heterosexual concepts, but very human ones. As is living in an open relationship.. as is cheating and fucking anyone you like behind your partners back for that matter...

[tenni]

I don't believe that for a minute. You aren't talking monogamy when you get into "can't have friends" you are talking slavery. They are not mutual concepts.

Well, it happens both ways from men and women who are thinking this is monogomy. The person thinks that they are being monogomous and demanding exclusivity. I was just chatting with a guy who said that his wife doesn't like him having friends. My own bio sister lives in such a relationship where her husband is so very possessive. They have couple friends only where both are present during the social activity. Rarely is she permitted to do much other than work without him. Yes, it is a form of something other than monogomy but it exists under the name and concept of monogomy. Being a person who provides everything to the other is probably not really love either.

Let me think about what you have written darkeyes. My brain grows foggy...I think that I have a summer cold or something..daamn. But through the fog I would propose that if society was not so monogomous thinking the entire barriers of being outside a relationship would diminish to the point where it could become more casual to have friendships sexual or non sexual with the other partner not feeling threatened as much as they do. It might as casual as saying that I bumped into Bob and went for a drink after work. No need to be interviewed by the other spouse to see "if we are a match". No need to feel threatened...although some spouses can be threatened when their partner goes out for a beer without telling them ahead of time too. (which is different from a spouse going out for a beer and not telling the other one they arrive home late drunk loooong after dinner...;) (excuse any bitchiness more than normal..damn head cold)

[DuckiesDarling]

And again that is not monogamy, as Fran stated that's possessiveness, as I stated that's slavery. That's believing one own's a person body and soul and that is not monogamy. Please do not turn this into just another forced to cheat cause of monogamy thread, the question asked was a good one and Mikey further went on to take sex out of the equation in the refinement of the question. The question is can you love another person other than your partner and be loved by other people.

When you take sex out of the equation, the answer is unequivocally yes. Can some of the friendships interefere with your partnership, absolutely, as I said there is moderation to a lot of things. If you go out with your buddies drinking and watching soccer games the whole season even though your partner hates soccer. You are deliberately excluding the partner. Is that fair to spend so much time with your friends when you are deliberately excluding the partner? That depends, how much do you make it up to the partner. Do you go to the opera or something with partner that they love and you loathe? Do you actually try to respect the partner or get lost in the friendships going even if they dump me I got friends? That's why this question is thought provoking, there are scenarios that can be hypothesized for every situation with sex or without.

[darkeyes]

The concept of the cheat would exist whether every human being was exclusive to their partner or not Tenni.. it is not monogamy in any way shape or form which discourages non sexual relationships..but possessiveness, which can happen even in some form or other in open relationships..trust me.. Ive seen it on more than one occasion.. Ive even had a slap in the face because of it...



I intended to mention also obsession... that is the worst of all..

[tenni]

DD
I basically agree with your post #20 but I thought that Mikey brought sex back into the equation with certain comments. It can go overboard with hang'n with the friends versus your spouse. I've seen this from both genders. It is a balance but I wonder if the personality of the person is also a factor as to whether it needs to be 50 /50 or some other ratio. My theory still is that if society was not so obsessed with monogomy it might be better...lol ( I know. I won't win. Its like the Israeli Gaza disagreement...lol)

[DuckiesDarling]

Tenni, as long as you recognize that for some people monogamy is not only good for them, it's the only way for them. Some people are just hardwired to need to be loved by and only love one person whether that is same or opposite sex. It occurs in nature as well, some species famously mate for life, so it is not a foriegn concept exclusive to humans.

[darkeyes]

DD
My theory still is that if society was not so obsessed with monogomy it might be better...lol ( I know. I won't win. Its like the Israeli Gaza disagreement...lol) o I don't know Tenni.. u mite.. I reckon tween cheats, hypocrites, liars, people like me, open relationships and the foot loose and fancy free we already have in a way... society may frown but I reckon.... we may wish it to be open, honest and above board, and monogamy is still the accepted societal "norm", but it is more by default than a reality...

[tenni]

"It occurs in nature as well, some species famously mate for life, so it is not a foriegn concept exclusive to humans."

Ya, ya...I've heard that penguins claim to mate for life and some swans...but I've also been told on the QT by a swan that a little on the side is ok and he was not sure about that last breed from last year being "his"...She kept saying that she was with a friend and he shouldn't get his feathers ruffled .....;) :)

* I know...I'm bad...I'll go to my room.

[DuckiesDarling]

"It occurs in nature as well, some species famously mate for life, so it is not a foriegn concept exclusive to humans."

Ya, ya...I've heard that penguins claim to mate for life and some swans...but I've also been told on the QT by a swan that a little on the side is ok and he was not sure about that last breed from last year being "his"...She kept saying that she was with a friend and he shouldn't get his feathers ruffled .....;) :)

* I know...I'm bad...I'll go to my room.

ROFLMAO yeah go to your room and polish all the nice handcuffs and oil the leather whips :tong:

[allbimyself]

hmm

A little touchy, sensitive there all ...lol

There would be no need for a concept called cheat if the society did not focus on monogomy as much as it does. Extreme monogomy may result in discouraging non sexual friendships as well.

*rollseyes*

Look up the word cheat in the dictionary. You do have one don't you?

Cheating is the appropriate word and it has nothing to do with monogamy. You can be in certain types of non-monogamy and still cheat. Cheating is going outside the rules, the agreed upon rules of those involved.

If you haven't told your spouse that he/she shouldn't expect you to be monogamous, then they certainly have the expectation that you will be. If you aren't, you are cheating.

If you are in a relationship where you are allowed same sex partners but have sex with with the opposite sex, you are cheating.

If you are in a poly relationship with 18 people and fuck someone that isn't in that group, you are cheating.

I'll say it again, maybe you will understand. Cheating is not limited to monogamy so stop bringing it up.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Well of course you can, Hon. The human heart is so capable of loving more than one person, easily. A person with a big enough heart can love several different people in a myriad of ways, and love each one equally strong. Blessed are those who Can. :}
Cat, the hard hearted...lol

[darkeyes]

*rollseyes*

Look up the word cheat in the dictionary. You do have one don't you?

Cheating is the appropriate word and it has nothing to do with monogamy. You can be in certain types of non-monogamy and still cheat. Cheating is going outside the rules, the agreed upon rules of those involved.

If you haven't told your spouse that he/she shouldn't expect you to be monogamous, then they certainly have the expectation that you will be. If you aren't, you are cheating.

If you are in a relationship where you are allowed same sex partners but have sex with with the opposite sex, you are cheating.

If you are in a poly relationship with 18 people and fuck someone that isn't in that group, you are cheating.

I'll say it again, maybe you will understand. Cheating is not limited to monogamy so stop bringing it up.

Go gerrim, cowboy... sighhhh... my hero....:)

[tenni]

Oh..no little missy.
I would never treat my friends that way....sexual or non sexual friends...not even if they asked me to...:)

ROFLMAO yeah go to your room and polish all the nice handcuffs and oil the leather whips :tong:

Allbimyself
Look up open mind. You do have one don't you? Can you brainstorm a bit or are you such a tight ass?....:rolleyes:

The only point about the concept of cheating and the point being made by Rob is that we connect cheating to paired sexual beings a hell of a lot more than non sexual friends. We don't get our shorts in a knot when a friend spends time with another friend??...well not without looking a bit possessive. Sexual friendships (particularly with one bi) that are more connected to monogomy from mainstream society might benefit if they loosened up the possessiveness as outlined by monogomy.

Rules...pftt Drop some of them connected to monogomy and maybe you don't have to worry so much about cheating?

* I know that I'm pushing the envelope and have a half baked idea..but then I have not had a thousand years to develope the "rules".



*rollseyes*

Look up the word cheat in the dictionary. You do have one don't you?

Cheating is the appropriate word and it has nothing to do with monogamy. You can be in certain types of non-monogamy and still cheat. Cheating is going outside the rules, the agreed upon rules of those involved.

If you haven't told your spouse that he/she shouldn't expect you to be monogamous, then they certainly have the expectation that you will be. If you aren't, you are cheating.

If you are in a relationship where you are allowed same sex partners but have sex with with the opposite sex, you are cheating.

If you are in a poly relationship with 18 people and fuck someone that isn't in that group, you are cheating.

I'll say it again, maybe you will understand. Cheating is not limited to monogamy so stop bringing it up.

[allbimyself]

Allbimyself
Look up open mind. You do have one don't you? Can you brainstorm a bit or are you such a tight ass?....:rolleyes: Ahh, and so it begins. Open mind has nothing to do with it. I noticed you totally ignored everything I said and are again trying to create a direct relationship between monogamy and cheating even after I proved there wasn't one. Maybe if I say it one more time you'll get it... The RULES aren't based on monogamy. The rules are what are agreed upon, explicitly or implicitly, by those involved. Going outside those rules is cheating. Just like playing poker, if you don't play by the rules, you are cheating. The RULES are not fixed! You want to claim that society is setting rules on you. BULLSHIT! You are free to define any rules for your relationship that you want as long as you and your partner(s) agree to them. So, anyone can define the rules, or boundaries, of their relationship. Society or a few centuries of human behavior have nothing to do with it EXCEPT that if you do NOT specifically discuss those rules and boundaries, your partner does have a reasonable expectation that you abide by them.

You just ignore that and keep on with your silly mantra. You can only accuse me of being closed minded and a "tight ass." That's the refuge of someone that knows he can't argue his position. Give it up, you've exposed yourself.

[oldcalhippie]

No......

[RobUK]

(THERE IS NO NEED TO KEEP STATING WHAT IS CLASSED AS CHEATING - WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE WORD, I WAS JUST QUESTIONING WHY WE CLASS WHAT WE CLASS AS CHEATING)

There seem to be so many (seemingly arbitrary) rules about what is/isn't considered acceptable. For something that is supposed to be so important, you would expect the boundaries to be clearer.

For example - 2 guys being friends = OK, 2 guys watching a porno = OK, BUT 2 guys jerking off whilst in the same room whilst watching said porno = CHEATING, AND, if 1 of those guys goes (on his own) into the bathroom to J/O, after watching the porno, that, again = OK

Just seems very pedantic, really...

[RobUK]

Oh, and regarding the comment "You are free to define any rules for your relationship that you want as long as you and your partner(s) agree to them" -

A lot of bi men feel unable to raise this issue with their s/o's. As most of these 'rules' are never said out loud and just EXPECTED, the subject never comes up and (unless they raise the subject themselves - which they don't, because they're scared) and these 'rules' (which they never agreed upon) are just assumed.

[darkeyes]

Ahh, and so it begins. Open mind has nothing to do with it. I noticed you totally ignored everything I said and are again trying to create a direct relationship between monogamy and cheating even after I proved there wasn't one. Maybe if I say it one more time you'll get it... The RULES aren't based on monogamy. The rules are what are agreed upon, explicitly or implicitly, by those involved. Going outside those rules is cheating. Just like playing poker, if you don't play by the rules, you are cheating. The RULES are not fixed! You want to claim that society is setting rules on you. BULLSHIT! You are free to define any rules for your relationship that you want as long as you and your partner(s) agree to them. So, anyone can define the rules, or boundaries, of their relationship. Society or a few centuries of human behavior have nothing to do with it EXCEPT that if you do NOT specifically discuss those rules and boundaries, your partner does have a reasonable expectation that you abide by them.

You just ignore that and keep on with your silly mantra. You can only accuse me of being closed minded and a "tight ass." That's the refuge of someone that knows he can't argue his position. Give it up, you've exposed yourself.

Sighhh..my hero strikes again... don need 2 say a bloody word...:tong:

[darkeyes]

No......

No? Is that it? You wouldn't care to extrapolate on that would you? I am genuinely interestd to know why I talk through my arse and have lived an illusory life...

[Long Duck Dong]

Sighhh..my hero strikes again... don need 2 say a bloody word...:tong:

shove over, I wanna worship him too lol

[darkeyes]

shove over, I wanna worship him too lol

Oi u.. findya own hero.. Allbi is mine.... tee hee..:tong:

naaaa kiddin ya Duckie.. ther plenty a Allbi 2 go round... an am only talkin bout 1 lil part a 1 issue afta all fore the daft bugga finds 'is heads swell..;).. an we can't hav that.. all that blood rushin 2 'is teensy weensy heads..'e mite pass out an do 'imsel an injury... an am much 2 fonda 'im for that 2 happen..:bigrin:

[allbimyself]

Oh, and regarding the comment "You are free to define any rules for your relationship that you want as long as you and your partner(s) agree to them" -

A lot of bi men feel unable to raise this issue with their s/o's. As most of these 'rules' are never said out loud and just EXPECTED, the subject never comes up and (unless they raise the subject themselves - which they don't, because they're scared) and these 'rules' (which they never agreed upon) are just assumed.Never said it was easy. Never said it was fair. That's life. Maybe someday in the future things will change (I hope they do) but that is the future and we live in the present. What you said doesn't change facts, it just points out a problem that many of us have. How one deals with that problem is up to the individual. However, don't expect automatic sympathy from other bisexuals if you choose to cheat and use your bisexuality as an excuse.

See, that's the WHOLE issue I have. When someone uses their bisexuality as an excuse to cheat that reflects on ALL bisexuals. Some of us don't cheat. We can be monogamous. We can discuss with our S/Os and redefine the boundaries of our relationships WITH them.

It's hard enough getting people to accept bisexuality without having the extra baggage of those that use it as an excuse for bad behavior "proving" the stereotype of the greedy, oversexed bisexual.

[onewhocares]

Ahh, and so it begins. Open mind has nothing to do with it. I noticed you totally ignored everything I said and are again trying to create a direct relationship between monogamy and cheating even after I proved there wasn't one. Maybe if I say it one more time you'll get it... The RULES aren't based on monogamy. The rules are what are agreed upon, explicitly or implicitly, by those involved. Going outside those rules is cheating. Just like playing poker, if you don't play by the rules, you are cheating. The RULES are not fixed! You want to claim that society is setting rules on you. BULLSHIT! You are free to define any rules for your relationship that you want as long as you and your partner(s) agree to them. So, anyone can define the rules, or boundaries, of their relationship. Society or a few centuries of human behavior have nothing to do with it EXCEPT that if you do NOT specifically discuss those rules and boundaries, your partner does have a reasonable expectation that you abide by them.

You just ignore that and keep on with your silly mantra. You can only accuse me of being closed minded and a "tight ass." That's the refuge of someone that knows he can't argue his position. Give it up, you've exposed yourself.



Ah, be still my heart. A man with a brain and a wonderful bottom. Is there room on the bench for this admirer?

Belle

[MarieDelta]

Ah, be still my heart. A man with a brain and a wonderful bottom. Is there room on the bench for this admirer?

Belle

You can sit next to me , Belle. I share popcorn , too :bigrin:

[Plumhead2]

Of course, and it happens all the time. It is called Multilateral marriages and was chronicled by Larry and Joan Constantine in the 1970's. There are people all over the United States (and I bet the world) who are "married" in groups of three, four, maybe six people. They live together, raised kids together, and love together. There are pros and cons to these kinds of relationships, but they tend to last longer than the traditional monogamous marriages.

I used to think that such arrangements would be perfect for me. However, with age (and multiple divorces), I have come to think that since it is so hard to find one other person who you could love and who could love you in return, finding more people than that who would all love each other and be love by each other would be almost impossible. Hope still exists, but it is fading fast.

[csreef]

Well of course you can, Hon. The human heart is so capable of loving more than one person, easily. A person with a big enough heart can love several different people in a myriad of ways, and love each one equally strong. Blessed are those who Can. :}
Cat, the hard hearted...lol

If you are able to have the emotional strength and balance to be in a Polyamorus (sp?) I'd say go for it :three:

[mikey3000]

Geez. Another tread turned into a cheating battle with winning and loosing opinions. Look, I never mentioned sex at all. I just wanted to know if a person can love and be loved by more than one person. Really simple. Unless... you consider that emotional cheating? OMG is that it? Is even having very close friendships with others than your spouse considered cheating too? Wow. Maybe there's the revelaton.

[allbimyself]

Geez. Another tread turned into a cheating battle with winning and loosing opinions. Look, I never mentioned sex at all. I just wanted to know if a person can love and be loved by more than one person. Really simple. Unless... you consider that emotional cheating? OMG is that it? Is even having very close friendships with others than your spouse considered cheating too? Wow. Maybe there's the revelaton.Uh huh. I apologize that it happened, but you can look to your buddies tenni and rob for why it happened. But you are being dishonest. AFTER tenni and rob brought up the aspects of sexual cheating you replied along the lines of "great posts everyone!" yet when some of us challenged them you get huffy that it's gone off topic.

Your little missive about close friendships being considered cheating exposes that you don't like the word cheating either. I explained what I defined cheating as but you ignored that and tried to say I mean something else. Again, that's the refuge of someone that can't argue their position.

[allbimyself]

Wow! Talk about totally missing the point. It seems you actually agree with me.

I don't give a rat's ass if someone cheats (as long as it isn't on or with me). I do take exception to people not wanting to call it what it is or use their bisexuality as an excuse for it.

Reading comprehension is a good thing, summertime.

[allbimyself]

If a person is bisexual or gay cheating is going to be looked at differently if they are in a relationship with a same sex partner than if they are in a relationship with an opposite sex partner that appears to be heterosexual and is full of mainstream heterosexual values.

It's not possible for most men to be monogamous and there are some enlightened women who have realized this or who like men know that it's just sex and that the other person does not take the place of a spouse or husband or wife.

"mainstream heterosexual values" stop and think about that term. You use it so much in a derogatory way I don't think you even know what it means.

As to the rest, more power to them. My point, again, is if your S/O believes the two of you are going to be monogamous, NO MATTER WHY THEY BELIEVE THAT, and you fuck around, it's cheating. Doesn't matter if they are subscribing to "mainstream heterosexual values." If you hate "mainstream heterosexual values" and don't tell your S/O that but let them continue to believe that you agree with them and abide with them, who is wrong?

[tenni]

"t seems to me that lots of people here think that gay male and even bisexual relationships are exactly like Heterosexual monogamous marriages or exactly like Heterosexual mainstream values and this is simply not the case."

I agree with you Summer on this point. The entire concept about cheating has been created for a hetero mainstream belief structure. If as a bi person you wish to follow that concept because you are in a relationship with a closed minded hetero or it is your own desire. Go for it. However, this thread is not was not to be about that word. it seems to freak some posters out and they can not see beyond that word. Maybe, I will start to refer to it as the "c" word...lol

I myself have enjoyed a monogomous love relationship several times with women. Been cheated on in such a relationship and yes it hurts. So what! My fault as well. I survived and became a bit wiser...but I might make the same mistake again..dumb me. How I defined monogomy would not match the mainstream voices expressed here though. It his how I dealt with my bisexuality and colours my views still to some extent. I'm not telling the bigots....fuckya....lol :bigrin: Yep, this is a very welcoming and open forum..if you agree with mainstream more than less.

[MarieDelta]

Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others,[1] Cheating implies the breaking of rules. The term "cheating" is less applicable to the breaking of laws, as illegal activities are referred to by specific legal terminology such as fraud or corruption. Cheating is a primordial economic act: getting more for less, often used when referring to marital infidelity. A person who is guilty of cheating is generally referred to as a cheat (British English), or a cheater (American English).

I think that covers it.

Monogamy - is the understanding of having and being faithful to one (mono) partner

Polyamory - Having multiple loves , generally started in the late 60's early 70's. Some credit RAH with the invention of polyamory some do not. Generally the most in depth study of this type of lifestyle is The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities (http://www.amazon.com/Ethical-Slut-Infinite-Sexual-Possibilities/dp/1890159018) written by Dossie Easton & Catherine A. Liszt ...

Both of whom agree that to be ethical it is important to be honest especially in this day and age of HIV and other STI's.

By the way both of these authors are Bisexuals...

[MarieDelta]

Dossie Easton is a lesbian and she's not bisexual.

What's called Polyamory is nothing new and it was not invented in the 60s or 70s.

People have been having open or non-monogamous marriages and relationships for hundreds of years and there was no need to label it with a modern day philosophy or term.

Being Ethical is nice but c'mon I'd rather my partners use safer sex all the time even if they are cheating on me than rely on a failed philosophy and relationship model that doesn't really work out well in reality as much as it does in theory.

Being ethincal makes you a good person.

Being un-ethical makes you a cheat and a liar, also someone I'd never ever be caught dead in a relationship with.

[tenni]

Look people We all know how a dictionary defines these words but this thread is not about those words...exactly.

You can love more than one person. You can get emotional support from more than one person and that should be accepted in society.or at least bisexuals. You may want to re examine other aspects of your sexual relationships and how you have blindly accepted loving another person. You already accept that you may love or be attracted to your own gender as well as the "accepted" other gender. If you do not, fine. Those that are exploring alternative ways will do so anyway. We do not need your condemnation and use of hetero mainstream definitions. If you do, go for it. Leave us alone and stop imposing your values on us.

[allbimyself]

Excellent points Tenni!

Allbi you would do well to learn about Heterocentrism and Heteronormativity since you and others here subscribe heavily to these anti-bisexual viewpoints.


LOL So now I'm "anti-bisexual?"

Honesty with one's partner is NOT heterocentric or hetero anything. It's a HUMAN value. Maybe you are anti-bisexual since you seem to think we aren't human. I DO think monogamy is wishful thinking, it fails more often than not. Those facts don't excuse cheating. If you can't be monogamous be honest. Thinking yourself superior by saying "Well, I don't have to be monogamous even if my partner thinks we are because that's an outdated, heterocentric view" is intellectual salve for the guilt of acting like a jackass.

BTW, bringing up examples of some woman's delusions about her marriage with a gay man has nothing to do with the topic of discussion.

[MarieDelta]

That's not necessarily true.

Just look at the concepts of "Good" and "Bad".

People are a mixture of the two even the most "ethical" people.

Cheating is cheating, no matter what you think. It isnt heterocentric to expect people to be honest. But I guess you wouldnt know that Horned or was it gay..wait hot...

[allbimyself]

Look people We all know how a dictionary defines these words but this thread is not about those words...exactly.

You can love more than one person. You can get emotional support from more than one person and that should be accepted in society.or at least bisexuals. You may want to re examine other aspects of your sexual relationships and how you have blindly accepted loving another person. You already accept that you may love or be attracted to your own gender as well as the "accepted" other gender. If you do not, fine. Those that are exploring alternative ways will do so anyway. We do not need your condemnation and use of hetero mainstream definitions. If you do, go for it. Leave us alone and stop imposing your values on us.Oh, but you ask for it, tenni! You do it here. You are using bisexuality as an excuse for being dishonest with your partner. As bisexuals, we have every RIGHT to say that you can't use a trait we share as an excuse! No one is telling you not to cheat, just don't use your sexuality, which we share, as an excuse to do so.

[MarieDelta]

It's not an excuse.

It's called living in reality as opposed to living completely in theory like you and Marie love to do.

Cheating goes on and if a man is in a relationship with a straight woman or even a bisexual woman usually if he comes out she winds up leaving him.

However if it's the opposite and the woman comes out as bisexual to a heterosexual or bisexual man the relationship stays together.

I see nothing wrong with bisexual men not wanting to come out to their girlfriend or wife and ruin their marriage or fuck up a relationship just because then the woman will claim that the man has been cheating on her all along and being dishonest.

This is where it's OK for a bisexual man to have a fling or affair or two and as long as he uses safer sex and his wife never finds out what she does not know will not hurt her.

Heck if she wants to have a fling with a man or two and does not get pregnant by him or get any STDs from him and keeps it a secret and wants to spice up her sex life and marriage that's fine too.

Hate to tellyou this , but I have a real life poly family composed of myself, 2 men and 2 women...

and yes we are all honest about it. They date others, as do I.

Its called being open & honest, duh

[allbimyself]

It's not an excuse.

It's called living in reality as opposed to living completely in theory like you and Marie love to do.

Cheating goes on and if a man is in a relationship with a straight woman or even a bisexual woman usually if he comes out she winds up leaving him.

However if it's the opposite and the woman comes out as bisexual to a heterosexual or bisexual man the relationship stays together.

I see nothing wrong with bisexual men not wanting to come out to their girlfriend or wife and ruin their marriage or fuck up a relationship just because then the woman will claim that the man has been cheating on her all along and being dishonest.

This is where it's OK for a bisexual man to have a fling or affair or two and as long as he uses safer sex and his wife never finds out what she does not know will not hurt her.

Heck if she wants to have a fling with a man or two and does not get pregnant by him or get any STDs from him and keeps it a secret and wants to spice up her sex life and marriage that's fine too.
Yes it is an excuse how he uses it. He's said over and over that a bisexual man should be allowed to cheat (tho he doesn't use that word).

"Cheating goes on." Whoop de doo! Good on ya, cheat all ya want. Murder goes on, too. Doesn't mean I have to condone it. Is murder ok too if no one ever "finds out?"

[darkeyes]

It's not an excuse.

It's called living in reality as opposed to living completely in theory like you and Marie love to do.

Cheating goes on and if a man is in a relationship with a straight woman or even a bisexual woman usually if he comes out she winds up leaving him.

However if it's the opposite and the woman comes out as bisexual to a heterosexual or bisexual man the relationship stays together.

I see nothing wrong with bisexual men not wanting to come out to their girlfriend or wife and ruin their marriage or fuck up a relationship just because then the woman will claim that the man has been cheating on her all along and being dishonest.

This is where it's OK for a bisexual man to have a fling or affair or two and as long as he uses safer sex and his wife never finds out what she does not know will not hurt her.

Heck if she wants to have a fling with a man or two and does not get pregnant by him or get any STDs from him and keeps it a secret and wants to spice up her sex life and marriage that's fine too.

Jus a lil point..wetha protection or ne otha kinda safer sex is practiced.. no sex is guaranteed 2 b 100% safe certainly not 'gainst std's.. THATS wy so many r so worried bout cheatin.. I have cheated.. I dont any more, but I have.. but never did I cheat by using my sexuality as the excuse.. selfishness and sexual greed sure... but neva me sexuality..

[MarieDelta]

What's the point of even having a relationship like that?

It's even more of a failed concept than Heterosexual monogamy or monotony is!

Pretend that you are open and honest all you want with Heterocentric mainstream values but don't complain when you find out that someone broke one of the rules, "cheated", or had sex with someone else and did not tell anyone about it.

The point is the same in any other relationship... Love and being loved, duh...It supplies the needs we have.

[Annika L]

Wow...it feels like so many people here talking completely at cross-purposes. That's different from simply disagreeing...it's like you're all having different conversations or debating different things entirely!

I think this post by tenni points up the disconnect quite nicely:


Look people We all know how a dictionary defines these words but this thread is not about those words...exactly.

You can love more than one person. You can get emotional support from more than one person and that should be accepted in society.or at least bisexuals. You may want to re examine other aspects of your sexual relationships and how you have blindly accepted loving another person. You already accept that you may love or be attracted to your own gender as well as the "accepted" other gender. If you do not, fine. Those that are exploring alternative ways will do so anyway. We do not need your condemnation and use of hetero mainstream definitions. If you do, go for it. Leave us alone and stop imposing your values on us.

Ok, so it's not the definition of cheating he has a problem with. And I don't think any of the major debators here are in dispute over whether you can love more than one person or get support from them...we seem to be mostly agreed there. So in that sense, we should *all* consider this thread case-closed...miikey got what he wanted...and stop posting.

But there's something else going on here...we seem so in agreement. So where does it break down?

"Those that are exploring alternative ways will do so anyway." I think we're all agreed there as well. Just like we all know the definition of cheating, we also all know that some people do it, and will do it no matter what anyone thinks of it. We also know that some people explore alternative ways *without* cheating, and that's fine too.

"We do not need your condemnation and use of hetero mainstream definitions." Wait...there it is!! Tenni started the post by saying that we all know the definition of cheating, but he now is referring to that definition as hetero mainstream...but the definitions of cheating given have nothing to do with sex or sexuality! They have to do with breaking rules or understandings. How can such a thing be hetero mainstream? If we're playing poker, and you sneak an ace out of your sleeve into your hand, and I call you a cheat...surely, I'm not making a hetero-based claim, am I?

As to condemnation, I don't see Allbi exactly *condemning* people for sexual cheating...he condemns people for using their sexuality as an excuse for doing it. And he gives good reasons for condemning that. Tenni, can you see that saying "*I* cheat because I'm bi" reflects on all bi people, and perpetuates the stereotype that we all cheat? I mean, yeah, I'm not whining about the fact...it's just unfortunate...but do you agree that that excuse perpetuates the stereotype that we all cheat?

And finally, "Leave us alone and stop imposing your values on us." Well, tenni hon, I'm afraid that's just unrealistic. If I think your behavior reflects poorly on me, I'm gonna ask you to stop, as are others who feel similarly. That's just a normal human response.

Does this set of reflections help any to see where people are coming from?

Ok, now to sew up two bits of old business:


No......

I agree with Fran...I'd like to hear this person's thoughts. That is a thread, not a poll. Please tell us the basis you have for making this response.

Finally...in so many places here, Allbi says exactly what I've been thinking, to the point where I've not felt the need to contribute until now (when it just seems like people, allbi included, are spinning their wheels). So I too would like to join the Allbi Fan Club. I'm thinking that a bench is too small a world for such a club...how about an actual pub? I reserve that table over there in the corner...but you're all welcome to join me there! :tong:

[allbimyself]

Hmmm. A fan CLUB? Why do I get the feeling I'm gonna end up buying the drinks for my fans at this club?

LOL

[MarieDelta]

Hmmm. A fan CLUB? Why do I get the feeling I'm gonna end up buying the drinks for my fans at this club?

LOL

Ohhh a good point!

*joins Annika at her table*

I'll have a rum and coke, honey;)

[Annika L]

I just wanted to know if a person can love and be loved by more than one person. Really simple. Unless... you consider that emotional cheating? OMG is that it?

Mikey, I've got a revelation for you.

I once had a wonderful friend with whom I'd thought I had a beautiful, deep friendship. We are both partnered in monogamous relationships. As we became closer, we realized that our feelings for one another went beyond simple friendship...we loved one another. This was no specific conflict for me, since my agreement with my partner does not forbid such an emotional closeness with others. But it did create conflict for my friend, since her agreement with her partner *did* forbid loving others...not just sexual fidelity, but emotional fidelity as well. Basically, this conflict appears to have destroyed our friendship, and my friend barely speaks to me now...at least I presume this is why...she won't say, but there is no other apparent reason...it would at least appear to have something to do with it.

So yes, some people do struggle with issues of "emotional cheating", if that's what you'd like to call it. Personally, I don't believe people can (or even should if we could) help loving one another...the more love there is in the world, the better for the whole world...that's my sappy view, anyway. So I don't think my friend's partnership agreement is particularly reasonable. But their agreement is what it is, it's between the two of them, and I doubt it is (at all) unique.

But that's not what Allbi, Fran, Marie, etc. are talking about.

As far as this degenerating into another thread on cheating...I believe you set us up for that, hon. If your surprise isn't completely disingenuous, then you are more naive than you appeared after a few months of reading your posts. :tong: *hugs*

[Annika L]

Hmmm. A fan CLUB? Why do I get the feeling I'm gonna end up buying the drinks for my fans at this club?

LOL

Allbi, that would be downright messianic of you!! :tong:

However, it's not required. I'll buy your first drink, in fact...I'll even take the first sip of it to prove it isn't poisoned *evil smile*.

[MarieDelta]

Love is just icing on the cake of life baby.

Even long duck dong will agree with me on that.

Do not be surprised if your collective sex partners all wind up cheating on each other, you discover that what you have with these people is anything but love, or if the group breaks up eventually in the name of being open and honest and you're left all alone without any love at all and it was something that you never had with any of them.

Love is what we live for. Not talking about *sex*. Talking about compainionship and all that other stuff.

I'm not woried about cheating, its prety hard to cheat in such a relationship anyways. Unless of course your bent on doing it.

But then, thats YOUR problem.

[Annika L]

It's not that hard to cheat in such a relationship.

I have friends who have been in 3 and 4 person open relationships like you are in and they were cheated on by their partners and these people did cheat on their partners who pretended they were being open and honest.

Then when it came down to really being open and honest nobody was and nobody took the relationship seriously at all.

See, that's why these relationships work far better in theory than they do in reality.

If it's all about love why do you have 3 other partners and then go off and date and fuck other people on the side besides them?

How is it my problem that you are in a failed relationship model that you've all agreed upon based on being open and honest?

"These relationships" work better in theory than in reality because you have some friends who got hurt? What do we learn from a sample size of 1, exactly? Calling a relationship model failed because it didn't work for some of your friends is a bit self-absorbed, says me.

Do you realize you just accused Marie of sleeping around behind her partners' backs? Of course you do.

You want to change this site? Let's see how long you even last here (this time around).

[mikey3000]

As far as this degenerating into another thread on cheating...I believe you set us up for that, hon. If your surprise isn't completely disingenuous, then you are more naive than you appeared after a few months of reading your posts. :tong: *hugs*

Yes, apparently I am naive on bisexuality. That's kind of why I came here in the first place. But after your compliment, Annika, maybe I'm naive to stick around too. Sorry I don't over analyse everyone's comments to the Nth degree. Maybe I am just too stupid. Got it. Thanks for finally being honest.

[tenni]

Annika
I do not agree with you that Mikey set this thread up to discuss cheating. He did not mention it in his OP. You, as the second poster, never referred to that. It was in post 11 that Rob used the "c" word in connection to wondering why people differentiate having multiple friends but only one lover. He mentioned love for many friends and love in a non sexual way without the "c" word. He question the addition of some form of sexual activity makes it not acceptable. Should this not be permitted? Later, he question masturbation in front of another man and why or if this should be considered as inappropriate. Now, Annika, masturbation between young men does happen at certain stages of their lives. It is fairly common but not universal. They are often with a close male friend when they explore their emerging sexuality. Some men enjoy masturbating later in life with another man. If that man is with a good friend, you may not be aware of this but some guys like it. It crosses self imposed male taboos but they like it. Rob questions why should two men not be able to do this and it is none of his wife's business. Men sometimes look at this activity quite differently than women. )(well apparently not mr alibi...lol)

Mikey seems to question emotional interaction between men and how or why it can not be demonstrated. I happen to know that this is an important need for Mikey. Anyone who reads his posts might be able to decipher this. Some of us do not see this as inappropriate for men. It doesn't reflect upon his love for his wife. Mikey may be questioning "acceptable" ways of demonstrating male affection between men. He feels a need for a close emotional and ya...maybe physical interaction with other men. Perhaps, he doesn't see this as inappropriate for his spouse to be concerned about. Women hug and kiss all the time without being accused of the "c" word. Should that be appropriate for women and not men? Well, guys are a little more dickcentric than lipcentric. Not only do we think with our little head at times but some would rather express themselves and maybe even affection through out dick and not our lips. It is just a possibility. I may be wrong about what Mikey's intent was.

Now, it would be nice if some of us might explore this without this nonsense from the rest of you. If you do not identify, butt out.

[Annika L]

You want to change this site? Let's see how long you even last here (this time around).

Not long, I see.

[tenni]

Annika
I do not agree with you that Mikey set this thread up to discuss cheating. He did not mention it in his OP. You, as the second poster, never referred to that. It was in post 11 that Rob used the "c" word in connection to wondering why people differentiate having multiple friends but only one lover. He mentioned love for many friends and love in a non sexual way without the "c" word. He question the addition of some form of sexual activity makes it not acceptable. Should this not be permitted? Later, he questions masturbation in front of another man and why or if this should be considered as inappropriate. Now, Annika, masturbation between young men does happen at certain stages of their lives. They are often with a close male friend when they explore their emerging sexuality. Some men enjoy masturbating later in life with another man for a variety of reasons. If that man is with a good friend, you may not be aware of this but some guys like it. It crosses self imposed male taboos but they like it. Rob may question why should two men not be able to do this and it is none of his female partner's business. Some men sometimes look at this activity quite differently than women.

Mikey seem to question emotional interaction between men and how or why it can not be demonstrated. I happen to know that this is an important need for Mikey. Anyone who reads his posts might be able to decipher this. Some of us do not see this as inappropriate for men. It doesn't reflect upon his love for his wife. Mikey may be questioning "acceptable" ways of demonstrating male affection between men. He feels a need for a close emotional and ya...maybe physical interaction with other men. Perhaps, he doesn't see this as inappropriate for his spouse to be concerned about. Women hug and kiss all the time without being accused of the "c" word. Should that be appropriate for women and not men? Well, guys are a little more dickcentric than lipcentric. Not only do we think with our little head at times but some would rather express themselves and maybe even affection through out dick and not our lips. It is just a possibility. I may be wrong about what Mikey's intent was.

[Annika L]

Annika
I do not agree with you that Mikey set this thread up to discuss cheating.

No, no, tenni, I wasn't trying to say I thought Mikey set this up to discuss cheating...and I tried to stay away from that topic in my post #2, because I didn't *want* this to be another thread about cheating.

But it felt like a setup nonetheless...I don't see how (especially given the recent history with cheating threads here) you can post about multiple loves, and then be *surprised* when it degenerates into another war about cheating. Seemed like a certain kind of "entrapment": I'm gonna place this next to an open wound...now don't scratch at it! That's all I meant.

[tenni]

No, no, tenni, I wasn't trying to say I thought Mikey set this up to discuss cheating...and I tried to stay away from that topic in my post #2, because I didn't *want* this to be another thread about cheating.

But it felt like a setup nonetheless...I don't see how (especially given the recent history with cheating threads here) you can post about multiple loves, and then be *surprised* when it degenerates into another war about cheating. Seemed like a certain kind of "entrapment": I'm gonna place this next to an open wound...now don't scratch at it! That's all I meant.

Annika
I do agree that it feels like an open wound. I feel attacked by those who are hung up on the "c" word. We should be able to discuss this on a bisexual web site even if we are cumbersome with our words as we try to stay away from some people's narrow mindedness. As I wrote, there were nine posts outside of the OP without the "c" word. These "people" should just skip over a thread if someone uses the word in a discussion as we try to explore concepts.

Discussion on multiple loves should not be a taboo on this site. Should it? We know the moralists' views. Let it go.

[lovescum2]

I define cheating as going behind the back of your spouse. If they know then its not cheating.

Moral: Its not my business who you do, when you do it, or how you did it with them, Its not my place to put my morals onto you or vise versa. each person has their own and follow them, whether they are good or bad.

Moral#2: Mind your own business. It never pays to poke your nose in other peoples business, it could get it cut off.

Just the way I see it :rolleyes:

[tenni]

lovecum
We know...we have heard it before. (and I agree with you but) Now what are your thoughts on the thread topic please?

"Is it fair to expect just one person to fulfill every single emotional need we have for the rest of our lives, and expect the same from that person?

As humans can we not love and be loved by more than one person at a time?
Is this our job as spouses?"...

"I'm not talking sex here. I'm talking emotional needs, ie, like a husband hanging out with his buds, or the wife having her girlfriends. Should a couple have their own friends aside form their spouse, or should that spouse be all that is required, with no other close friendships required?

[lovescum2]

Ok well yes you can because every love is not the same, I may love my wife, one way my male lover another.. Not that one is better than the other or is less than the other...Its just different :) is that what you wanted to hear :shades:

[mikey3000]

No, no, tenni, I wasn't trying to say I thought Mikey set this up to discuss cheating...
That's exactly what you said Annika. Don't back pedal now. You said it, own it. Nowhere did I mention sex at all, and I actually clarified my question in a subsequent post. You were the one to turn it into a sex/ cheating thread. So you got what you wanted. Fire away.

[tenni]

Oh...my You are correct Mikey. Annika used the "c" word first in post #2. She did seem to be trying to "exclude" her thoughts though as not about the "c" word. See Anika... the moralists have you walking on egg shells and assuming that one of them will attack your thoughts too. :(


Allbi "went postal" though in post #14.

[mariersa]

Yes, sexual Love and the Old Humdrum Love

[mikey3000]

...As far as this degenerating into another thread on cheating...I believe you set us up for that, hon. If your surprise isn't completely disingenuous, then you are more naive than you appeared after a few months of reading your posts. :tong: *hugs*

Annika, this is a direct quote from post #61, your post. Are you really going to try and privately tell me that I misquoted you? That that is not what you wrote, and that I misunderstood you? Really? Honey, I'm not fucking stupid. So now, let's see if you're gonna put your money where your mouth is and do the right thing.

And don't snivel asking if I'm gonna hate you. It's not very becomming. I don't hate anyone, I'm not that petty. But I do expect you to either stand up and support your accusations, or shut the fuck up with your flippant, off the cuff insults and happy faces. Cause this time I'm not very amused. You've got some fucking nerve talking to me like that, then denying it, saying I misunderstand you. It's right there in black and white. Deny it here then if you can.

[Annika L]

That's exactly what you said Annika. Don't back pedal now. You said it, own it. Nowhere did I mention sex at all, and I actually clarified my question in a subsequent post. You were the one to turn it into a sex/ cheating thread. So you got what you wanted. Fire away.

Mikey, read the friggin post...it is not "exactly" what I said. I said "I believe you set us up for that"...as in "it's a setup"...exactly as I explained to tenni in my post right before this one...that I own with no backpeddling. I neither said nor meant that you *wanted* this to be a thread on cheating...I didn't say you *set the thread up for that*.

I shared my personal views and circumstances on this topic...on the questions you asked...and honestly, I found it difficult/impossible to do so without the concept of physical infidelity coming up...they are too tightly intertwined (which is exactly why I find it strange that you're surprised that this turned into a cheating thread)...but I stayed as far away from it as I could, and certainly didn't get critical or bashy, sheesh.

Your clarification happened to come *after* my response, btw, in case you didn't notice. But even *with* that clarification, I believe that with love (emotional closeness) comes pretty naturally the desire for physical closeness...and so questions of fidelity arise naturally even if you are only inquiring into emotions.

If you've read my views on fidelity in other threads, you'll know that I'm *not* one of the hardliners...I call a spade a spade, yes, but I at least try to understand and hear out the reasons *why* people do what they do and think as they think. If you've read *anything* I write in forums, you should know that I do *not* look to stir up shit-storms...I'm typically on the side of quelling them (as I'll say I've tried to do here as well). I have no desire to "fire away" at anything or anybody or their views.

I have one (civil) reply to make to tenni, then I'll get the hell off your damned thread and let it sort itself out or not. And for your greater comfort, I'll stay clear of others of your threads in the future.

I am sorry I've pissed you off. But I'll not apologize for being myself, expressing myself in my own way, or for having my views and experiences.

[Annika L]

Annika, this is a direct quote from post #61, your post. Are you really going to try and privately tell me that I misquoted you? That that is not what you wrote, and that I misunderstood you? Really? Honey, I'm not fucking stupid. So now, let's see if you're gonna put your money where your mouth is and do the right thing.

And don't snivel asking if I'm gonna hate you. It's not very becomming. I don't hate anyone, I'm not that petty. But I do expect you to either stand up and support your accusations, or shut the fuck up with your flippant, off the cuff insults and happy faces. Cause this time I'm not very amused. You've got some fucking nerve talking to me like that, then denying it, saying I misunderstand you. It's right there in black and white. Deny it here then if you can.

Un-F-ing believable. Ok, I lied about only posting once more, and will respond to one more thing here.

Here's the exchange:




"If your surprise isn't completely disingenuous, then you are more naive than you appeared after a few months of reading your posts."

Tell me that wasn't a slight, go ahead.


Mikey, it wasn't a slight.

I think what you're reading is "...then you are even more naive than you appeared...."

That is neither what I wrote nor what I meant.

My experience based on your past few months of posting here is that you are a thoughtful and decent person...I think I've even told you that before. Based on that I did not consider you at all naive...yes, maybe new to bisexual "stuff", but not naive in any way.

Hence, if you are surprised that a thread about multiple loves would degenerate into another bashfest on cheating, then you are more naive than I'd thought....still not saying you're naive...just a greater level of naivte than I'd thought (i.e., none).

I see now how you thought what you did, and I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. I should have said, "If your surprise isn't completely disingenuous, that strikes me as somewhat naive, which surprises me, since all the other posts I've read by you seem pretty intelligent, thoughtful, and reflective."

Ok, I've explained this as well as I can, and I thank you for pointing out directly what offended you. I did not mean offense. If you must believe otherwise, I suppose that's as must be, and you'll just have to hate me.

I wish you well.

Peace,
-- Annika


I'm willing to be judged by the public on this one. That a person would find this pm offensive blows my mind. I tried to settle this misunderstanding in private because I think too much gets aired in public here. And this post by Mikey is exactly the kind of inappropriate public airing I'm talking about.

I neither sniveled, nor asked if you hate me. I frankly don't give a damn dear.

I did wish you well and did have respect for you. Now I wish you well, but think you a bit of an ass.

[Annika L]

Annika
I do agree that it feels like an open wound. I feel attacked by those who are hung up on the "c" word. We should be able to discuss this on a bisexual web site even if we are cumbersome with our words as we try to stay away from some people's narrow mindedness. As I wrote, there were nine posts outside of the OP without the "c" word. These "people" should just skip over a thread if someone uses the word in a discussion as we try to explore concepts.

Discussion on multiple loves should not be a taboo on this site. Should it? We know the moralists' views. Let it go.

I agree with you that discussion of multiple loves should not be taboo here or elsewhere. But don't act surprised when such a discussion brings up the topic of fidelity/infidelity.

Ok...THAT'S my last word on this thread. Apologies for the one additional post...didn't expect the OP to attack like that.

[mariersa]

Welcome to the Club Annika, sad, but Welcome!!!

[RobUK]

Hi guys

Sorry, I only intended to ask a (admittedly slightly off-topic, but still related) quick question about what (and why) we consider the parameters of certain types of relationship (oh, and I didn't think of the "women hug and kiss, but men don't" argument - thanx for mentioning that Tenni). I certainly didn't mean to make this whole thread about it with everyone at each others' throats!

Sorry again
Rob
:)

[Gay2Bi]

Is it fair to expect just one person to fulfill every single emotional need we have for the rest of our lives, and expect the same from that person?

I don't really think it's realistic to expect one person to "fulfill every single emotional need we have for the rest of our lives." Everybody has their own strengths and weaknesses, and emotional intelligence (the ability to recognize and respond appropriately to the emotions of others) is no different. Ideally, one partner's strengths will complement the other partner's weaknesses and vice versa, but rarely is the ideal 100% realized. Communicating your needs to your partner definitely helps, but sometimes your partner just won't be able to meet certain needs.

An example would be a man's need for male bonding. A female partner can't provide that (the social/emotional dynamics are different when it's "just guys" as opposed to mixed company), which is why guys tend to have "boys' nights out" even when in a relationship with a woman. By the same token, guys are no good at "girl talk" (again, the social/emotional dynamic changes) so women have "girls' nights out." A guy's male friends are thus fulfilling a social and emotional need that his female friends/partners don't, while a woman's female friends fulfill a social and emotional need that her male friends/partners don't. Nothing wrong with that.


As humans can we not love and be loved by more than one person at a time?

Of course. I love lots of different people in different ways for different reasons, and I assume their reasons for loving me back in the way they do are equally as varied. Some of those relationships are purely social but no less meaningful, others have a strong emotional bond but without any sexual overtones, and with some of the relationships - both social and emotional - we could easily add a sexual component but currently haven't for a variety of reasons. The important thing is that each of those relationships is meaningful and fulfilling to me (and presumably to the other person) just as it is. They are what they are because they are fulfilling specific needs for me and the other person; if those needs change (either on either person's part), the relationship will change too.


Is this our job as spouses?

Well, I'm not married, so I can't give a concrete answer, but putting myself in that hypothetical situation, this is how I think it would work for me - just me, not necessarily anyone else:

I would certainly encourage my partner to have friends outside of the relationship (as I would), because I'm sure he (it would probably be a "he") would have interests that I don't share and vice versa (i.e. he likes sports and hates theatre, I hate sports and occasionally like to take in a play). This would be especially important if we have different social needs - I tend to be very introverted, so I don't like entertaining or going out to big events very often, but if my partner did like these things, I wouldn't want to say "no, you can't do that because I don't want to go with you." Of course, if we don't share enough common interests and our social needs are too different, we'd probably be better off as friends than partners. Ideally we would have figured that out before deciding to become partners.

Would I be comfortable with my partner having emotional bonds outside of the relationship? It's hard to say. I've been in situations where the person I was with developed an emotional bond to someone else that led to them abandoning their relationship with me. That hurt deeply at the time, but eventually I realized that the other person's needs had changed, and our relationship had changed with it. So on the one hand, I have a strong fear of loss - that another emotional bond will "compete" with the relationship and lead to abandonment - but on the other hand I understand that it doesn't have to compete, it can complement, and if it does lead to a change in the relationship, that change would have happened anyway eventually because the relationship is no longer meeting one or both of our needs.

Would I be comfortable with my partner having sex outside of the relationship? Again, it's hard to say. I've seen relationships where one partner had a sexual fetish not shared by the other, and the non-participating partner was fine with the other going outside the relationship to satisfy that particular craving. I've also seen relationships where that kind of arrangement led to jealousy. I like to think I'd be okay with my partner exploring "other interests" that I don't share, but again, I have that fear of loss which would lead to jealousy, so I really won't know until I'm in the situation. I think I'd probably have less fear (and less jealousy) if I knew about it in advance rather than finding out about it after the fact, but that would be something my partner and I would have to work out on our own.

If I were in an exclusive relationship with a man or a woman, obviously there are certain needs not being met - a man can't satisfy my desire for a woman and vice versa. Would I set aside one of those desires for the sake of the relationship? I don't know. It depends on the relationship. I think I would probably set aside my desire for women to be with a man since my desire for men is stronger and I tend to form deeper emotional bonds with men, but again, I don't know; it depends on the relationship. If the unmet need remains too strong to set aside, that again would be something my partner and I would have to work out, just as if he had a sexual desire I didn't share.

Again, I'm not married nor in a romantic relationship, so this is all hypothetical and could all very well change with the next person I meet.

[mikey3000]

Ok...THAT'S my last word on this thread. Apologies for the one additional post...didn't expect the OP to attack like that.

That's right, you didn't expect to be called on for your insensitive and rude remarks. That's more like it. Sugar coat it all you like and gloss it over, you still made that remark.

And for the record, I knew you wouldn't have the balls to do the right thing. I'm very disappointed. I thought you were better than that.


GAY2BI: Very nicely put. That is the kind of imput I was looking for Differences in emotional attachments. Boy's night out vs. Girl's night out. Well put. Many couples experience jealousy when one person of the couple want to keep/have their friends aside from their spouse. I have a friend thatI've been close to since I was six years old. He was my best man at my wedding, the God father to one of my daughters, and I helped him bury both of his parents. He's like the brother I never had and I love him dearly. Three years ago he got married (at 43 for the first time) and is having a difficult time. His new wife preferrs that he does not go out with the boys anymore cause he is now a family man. He has lost touch with all his male friends, but has just recently started calling me up to sneak out for a burger and beer. He is very miserable and lonely now (especially since his wife's mother has moved in with them) and misses his male friends terriby. She and her mother are dictating who he can see and when. She wants only couples of her choosing to socialize with now. And this hurts me too. That was the point of my thread, and you got it right on. Thanks.

[tenni]

Gay2Bi
Thanks for sharing your views. I agree with most of them. Perhaps, the answer of "I don't know" the most ;)

It may be an individual situation that might vary. I know that I would not be in either a non sexual or sexual relationship with someone who I felt was trying to keep me to themselves. I could not be comfortable being responsible for meeting all of their needs. One of my personal needs is "me" time so that I am able to recharge. I am very comfortable making public statements etc. but "need" this time to myself. A clingy person wanting me to meet all of their needs or vice versa would suffocate me. I actually travelled with a non sexual friend and before I knew that I needed "me" time was freaking out with him being beside me all the time. I refused to travel with him again until I figured it out and simply told him that I needed to be alone sometimes. When married, I never felt that. She gave my me time without me even asking for it. As I wrote, I didn't even know that I needed me time at that point in my life. I thought that I was tired and took a lay down when I came home from working a job where people were "at me" all day...lol

[csrakate]

I have found that I not only need time with my friends...I also need and desire ME time....time for myself without having to meet the needs of someone else. I know it sounds selfish..but that is when I recharge my batteries..so to speak...and not THOSE kind of batteries LOL!!! And as for ME time...I'm not talking about what you're thinking either LOL....just time to read....relax....do something that I want to do.

[mikey3000]

Ha ha ha!! What is this "me" time you refer to? I haven't had ME time is so long, I don't even know what it is anymore. I don't have 10 minutes a day alone just for me. Even when in the can, I have someone pounding on the door needing me. At work too.

To have an hour alone, just for me would be a dream.

[csrakate]

Ha ha ha!! What is this "me" time you refer to? I haven't had ME time is so long, I don't even know what it is anymore. I don't have 10 minutes a day alone just for me. Even when in the can, I have someone pounding on the door needing me. At work too.

To have an hour alone, just for me would be a dream.

It's called "Empty Nest Syndrome"...LOL! But before that...I just made ME time..with the threat of death or dismemberment if it were interrupted....but it took a long time to achieve such a goal....might have been after they went off to high school and were driving themselves LOL!

It actually took longer for the hubby to understand ME time....now that he does, he actually looks at me and asks, "Need some time to yourself?" But we'll be celebrating our 30th anniversary this weekend...so it took a very long time LOL!

[mikey3000]

We're still in the "mummydaddy" phase, where neither my wife nor I have our own identity and are blended into one parental unit. And it drives me nuts some times, especially being the only male in a house full of girls/women. Even the dog and cat are girls.:(

[Gay2Bi]

GAY2BI: Very nicely put. That is the kind of imput I was looking for Differences in emotional attachments. Boy's night out vs. Girl's night out. Well put. That was the point of my thread, and you got it right on. Thanks.

You're welcome. I understand about your friend. I've had several situations like that where I've been the "third wheel" as it were after a friend "got committed" (or should have been, in my opinion). The problem wasn't so much the fact that they started new relationships, but more the fact that the person with whom they started the relationship had a need to control what they did and whom they did it with. And in the end, no one was happy but the person doing the controlling, and even they weren't very happy because they had to put up with miserable partners.


One of my personal needs is "me" time so that I am able to recharge. I am very comfortable making public statements etc. but "need" this time to myself. A clingy person wanting me to meet all of their needs or vice versa would suffocate me.


I have found that I not only need time with my friends...I also need and desire ME time....time for myself without having to meet the needs of someone else. I know it sounds selfish..but that is when I recharge my batteries..so to speak...and not THOSE kind of batteries LOL!!! And as for ME time...I'm not talking about what you're thinking either LOL....just time to read....relax....do something that I want to do.

Exactly! For me I think part of it comes from being an introvert. Social interactions can leave me feeling drained if there are too many in too short a span of time. I'm good one-on-one and with a small group of friends, but put me in a large party and I'll be drained in no time. (Ironically, I have no trouble performing on stage - I can tune out the audience - just don't ask me to do a meet-and-greet afterwards!) When I get drained, I tend to get ever so slightly tetchy :rolleyes: which is never fun for anyone else to be around, so taking a break and spending some quiet time alone with a good book, movie, favorite CD or whatever is what I need to get back to feeling somewhat centered. I also meditate, so a few minutes of deep breathing if I can't get away also helps.

Part of it too is the fact that I'm a writer. I spend so much time immersed in my stories that I tend to lose track of the real world. Sometimes I get so lost in a story that I start referring to its events as if they'd really happened and the person I'm currently talking to should know what I'm talking about. Mildly embarrassing, that is... :oh:

[csrakate]

Exactly! For me I think part of it comes from being an introvert. Social interactions can leave me feeling drained if there are too many in too short a span of time. I'm good one-on-one and with a small group of friends, but put me in a large party and I'll be drained in no time. (Ironically, I have no trouble performing on stage - I can tune out the audience - just don't ask me to do a meet-and-greet afterwards!) When I get drained, I tend to get ever so slightly tetchy :rolleyes: which is never fun for anyone else to be around, so taking a break and spending some quiet time alone with a good book, movie, favorite CD or whatever is what I need to get back to feeling somewhat centered. I also meditate, so a few minutes of deep breathing if I can't get away also helps.

Part of it too is the fact that I'm a writer. I spend so much time immersed in my stories that I tend to lose track of the real world. Sometimes I get so lost in a story that I start referring to its events as if they'd really happened and the person I'm currently talking to should know what I'm talking about. Mildly embarrassing, that is... :oh:

LOL....sounds like me. I have no problem with public speaking. Give me a microphone and I am one happy person. I am a ham onstage while acting if given the opportunity. BUT mixing and mingling in crowds of people I don't know well or being around a lot of activity with other people is difficult for me. As an introvert myself (yes...I am an introvert for those of my friends that are thinking otherwise LOL), this takes a great deal of energy and I find it extremely exhausting. I need my ME time to get myself together.

[darkeyes]

It's called "Empty Nest Syndrome"...LOL! But before that...I just made ME time..with the threat of death or dismemberment if it were interrupted....but it took a long time to achieve such a goal....might have been after they went off to high school and were driving themselves LOL!

It actually took longer for the hubby to understand ME time....now that he does, he actually looks at me and asks, "Need some time to yourself?" But we'll be celebrating our 30th anniversary this weekend...so it took a very long time LOL!

:eek: b..b..b..bu..but.. M..Mumsie.. dus that mean u an Dadsy wern married wen me wos born.. u told me this wos ur 32cd.. me maths not gr8 but me reckons that makes me 9 months old wen u an Dadsy got hitched... God..me jus a lil basket case...:(:eek:

[allbimyself]

:eek: b..b..b..bu..but.. M..Mumsie.. dus that mean u an Dadsy wern married wen me wos born.. u told me this wos ur 32cd.. me maths not gr8 but me reckons that makes me 9 months old wen u an Dadsy got hitched... God..me jus a lil basket case...:(:eek:
Hmmmm, this explains a lot! :bigrin:

[csrakate]

:eek: b..b..b..bu..but.. M..Mumsie.. dus that mean u an Dadsy wern married wen me wos born.. u told me this wos ur 32cd.. me maths not gr8 but me reckons that makes me 9 months old wen u an Dadsy got hitched... God..me jus a lil basket case...:(:eek:

But you're a precious lil basket case!!!!....and a luffly tart!!

[just4mefc]

To the original post, depends on what you mean by Need. If you mean actual emotional needs (not desires nor wants) then yes it is possible to find a partner to meet your emotional needs. But if by needs you really mean "wants" then no it is not really possible. Of course I don't think we as humans are actually meant to have every want/desire met. The pursuit of such folly only leads to unhappiness. Now that being said, I am a very lucky man. My wife was my best friend for years before we became a couple and 10 years later she is still my best friend, best lover, my confidant and I spend as much time with her as I can. Even if all we are doing is watching TV I love sharing the experience with her. BUT I still have other friends to talk sports, workout, etc... In my opinion emotional needs are not all equal. It is a weighted scale, with each person having a different hierarchy of said needs. If you have a partner that meets the upper level needs, then all is good. Does seem that some people feel that if ALL needs (desires) are not met, they are being robbed.

On the notion of fidelity, I have no issue with my wife sleeping with someone else...yes that is an offer :tongue: , sex is easy to understand. But emotional fidelity is more sacred to me. After all this time I am very connected to her and have no issues with her having other relationship (sexual or emotional) but I took awhile to get there. At first I saw her need for other emotional attachments as an inadequacy in me. I lacked emotional security and felt threatened by these outside connections. Knowing I am not perfect I worried she would find someone better then me. Over time I learned the more freedom I gave her the more attached we became. Over the years many a person has come, some have stayed long time friends others faded away. I no longer feel jealously, in fact I now rejoice in her happiness. But I do understand how people become possessive.

[just4mefc]

That's right, you didn't expect to be called on for your insensitive and rude remarks. That's more like it. Sugar coat it all you like and gloss it over, you still made that remark.

And for the record, I knew you wouldn't have the balls to do the right thing. I'm very disappointed. I thought you were better than that.



Mikey, Being a 3rd party and Having read your posts back and forth with Annika I think you might have missed something in her language. What she wrote really reads much more neutral from the outside looking in. The remark reads much more in jest then it came off to you. I think this was a classic failure to communicate from both sides. But you seem to have slammed her pretty hard even if she did call you naive.

[NYFiddler]

Yes, it is very possible to love more then one. I know this from personal experience. I was 17 years old and she was 15. We were sweet hearts from day one and lost our virginity to each other. We were together for 21 years and had 3 children. Long story short, things went amiss for a multitude of reasons and I felt abandoned. I met another and remarried and have been for 10 years. My ex wife is going through so very bad times right now and even after all the pain and hurt that I felt, 10 years later I will not abandon her. We have had physical contact during my current marriage of which my current wife is aware of. I love them both very much and could never make a choice between the two without causing serious heart break to myself. So they were both told that if you really love me and don't want to hurt me don't make me make choices and just try and share my attention. That has worked out well and as a matter of fact all 3 of us are going out to dinner tonight. So yes, you can love and be loved by more then one. It is very REAL!!!