Wikileaks: right, wrong or ?

[tenni]

After almost a month in the shadows, Julian Assange, the controversial founder of WikiLeaks, surfaced in Brussels on Monday.

U.S. officials reportedly want to question him about how he obtained controversial film of an Apache helicopter attack on civilians in Baghdad, posted on the site in April.

WikiLeaks has only said it obtained the video “from a number of military whistleblowers,” but the U.S. military last week said it had arrested Specialist Bradley Manning, a 22-year-old military intelligence analyst in Iraq, as allegedly the source of the leak.

Spc. Manning, considered by Daniel Ellsberg of Pentagon Papers fame as a hero of the highest order, was turned into the military after he confessed in a web chatroom to what he had done.

The young soldier bragged he had sent 260,000 State Department cables on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to WikiLeaks. The military is now holding him incommunicado in Kuwait.

“[U.S.] public statements have all been reasonable. But some statements made in private are a bit more questionable,” Mr. Assange told the British newspaper The Guardian in Brussels.
“Some fear for my life,” he said. “I’m not one of them. We have to avoid some countries, avoid travel, until we know where the political arrow is pointing.”

Apart from preparing much more material for release, WikiLeaks is planning to publicize a secret U.S. military video of one of its deadliest air strikes in Afghanistan in which scores of children are believed to have been killed in May last year.
http://wikileaks.org/

What are your views about wikileaks?

[Long Duck Dong]

wikileaks...... I am open minded about it..... they walk a dangerous line but in a lot of respects, they are doing what governments and businesses will not do, they are revealing the facts and many say the truth

the blacklist of internet sites in australia is one, with the private list that not meant to be known to the public, revealed to the public... including a dentist business.... because the sites were not actually checked to see if they violated any laws or not.....

other things like the air strike.... that can be viewed as shit stirring, anti us propaganda or revealing what the us denies..... civilian causalities cos of a military fuck up....

it rises the question, does knowing the truth serve any benefit to the general public.... as the general public will often use the truth to further their own biased and dislike of groups or people or even countries....and thats just causing more bs....

personally, I support the revealing of the bank info and the blacklist info.... but as for the air strike and other fuck ups... I can see that leading to more and more anti america sentiment..... and the extremists will love that..... most americans will hate it, cos they have to deal with the bs... and some americans will end up trying once again to educate the general public that america is not responsible for the civilian deaths, military error is responsible for it........and that it is no different to the german / british bombings of ww2 where civilians got killed......

I can see this fast turning into another anti american / bash america thread....... but I feel bloody sorry for the soldiers that did the air strike.... they must feel like absolute shit....... maybe its better that the truth is not known about some things

[DuckiesDarling]

Hmmm...


On his Facebook page Sunday night, after Manning had been detained, Lamo said he was "heartsick" for the specialist and his family. "I hope they can forgive me some day for doing what I felt had to be done."

He added: "I've never turned anyone in before, and don't plan to again. But he was like a kid playing with a loaded gun. Someone was bound to get hurt."


I agree with that statement. The danger in today's society with the proliferation of cell phone vids and instant communications means that there is greater access to information about things that can be misconstrued to the average person not having all the details. It's also dangerous to have reporters telling the world where the soldiers are and basically doing the reconnaissance, albeit unknowingly, for the enemy.

As for whistleblowing on Wikileaks...I'm torn. Part of me craves information but the other part is annoyed at the callous way people are portrayed at times. It reminds me of the scene in Independence Day when Jeff Goldblum is upset that Bill Pullman as President ordered a nuclear strike against the aliens. Without being privy to the scene where the alien attacked the President and said there could be no peace it must be annihilation for mankind then Goldblum jumped to an incorrect conclusion. So too can people form opinions that are not really fair about certain things when all the evidence is not available to regular citizens.

[MarieDelta]

Like DD said, I'm torn. I do see the need to have a safe place for whistlblowers to get information out, however I think (from reading the comments on the site ) that most folks are very callous / harsh in their judgements of others. Tend to leap to the most critical judgement of people in a situation they have never been in.

[TaylorMade]

Free information is good. Free information forced the Co$ from weird, but harmless to dangerous in ways we never thought possible. Information is power, but like all power, it has to be used judiciously.

*Taylor*

[GremZealot]

I've looked at that video of the attack in Baghdad, and despite the low quality of the camera, and how much it was moving, to me it didn't look like they had any weapons at all, so how the soldiers who were there thought so, I'll never know.

I think the truth needs to always be revealed, to quote; "Governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way around."

The government may act sometimes without our approval, but who elected the officials?

[MarieDelta]

Oh and btw this from the person who posted that infamous video -


(1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and... its important that it gets out... i feel, for some bizarre reason
(1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something
(1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just... dont wish to be a part of it... at least not now... im not ready... i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me... plastered all over the world press... as boy...
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense... the CPU is not made for this motherboard...
(1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
(1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out... to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
(1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now...
(1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged... and figure out how on earth im going to transition
(1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed
(1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically

[TaylorMade]

Oh and btw this from the person who posted that infamous video -

Is this supposed to arouse sympathy? He betrayed state secrets so he could get home and transition? Am I reading this right?

<Side eye>

*Taylor*

[MarieDelta]

I dunno about sympathy.

But in some ways I am sympathetic with them.

Not because they are trans, btw.

No, I dont think it was done to get back home. For whatever that is worth.

Lastly some "State secrets" need to be pulled out of the closet.

[TaylorMade]

I dunno about sympathy.

But in some ways I am sympathetic with them.

Not because they are trans, btw.

No, I dont think it was done to get back home. For whatever that is worth.

Lastly some "State secrets" need to be pulled out of the closet.


That is not the way to do it. . .he violated his oath. For this, he should spend some time in Leavenworth.

*Taylor*

[DuckiesDarling]

Now, Marie, apparently there is some question as to what Manning meant by that transitioning remark. I read that as well on a site but there is no conclusion as to whether he meant transition from military to civilian life or from male to female, a vast difference between the two.

[Long Duck Dong]

from a military point of view..... and I am not saying this is what manning means

transition to civilian life, is not as easy as taking off a uniform....

we have to readjust to not being on com alert 24 / 7, not needing a weapon in our hands, never knowing who is non com and who is com, getting used to daily life, etc... it goes on and on......

some of us never do transition, some of us are stuck in com mode and never do readjust to civilian life.....

manning may be refering to a trans aspect..... its hard to say...

[citystyleguy]

...as for sites and individuals, wikileaks or whomever, they are empowered by the availability of the net to desiminate information; as to the particular content of which you post, what the hell do people think happens in war, in the past, now, or in the future? the sole purpose of the military in any war, is to succeed, at any consequence, to WIN! ...and to those that will chose to leak, write of, take photos, there will be consequences; that is the risk factor in journalism; in an authoritarian society the answers to the above are short and sweet, but in a democratic society, it will be tangled web before any choices are made! right or wrong, the one making the choice will be damned, if not by one side of the spectrum, then the other side! just read the postes in the newsites regarding the general in charge of military policy in the afghan war! in closing, i pick the democracy over the tyrant anyday, and support the freedom of choice, just be careful of where you tread, to the individual as well as the politicos!

[MarieDelta]

FWIW I'm not opposed to them doing time in Ft Leavenworth. This is the risk you take when you reveal secrets. Then blab about it. Whether or not those secrets need to be revealed is another question.

[darkeyes]

FWIW I'm not opposed to them doing time in Ft Leavenworth. This is the risk you take when you reveal secrets. Then blab about it. Whether or not those secrets need to be revealed is another question.

Wers the Fort Leavenworth? Reely havta buy this guy a drinkie..

..bloody secrets.. more peeps that leak 'em the happier the world will b...

[DuckiesDarling]

Wers the Fort Leavenworth? Reely havta buy this guy a drinkie..

..bloody secrets.. more peeps that leak 'em the happier the world will b...

http://garrison.leavenworth.army.mil/sites/about/history.asp

Fran, Ft. Leavenworth is traditionally where military prisoners go to spend their terms of confinement.

As for the rest... again as I've said I'm torn. I love information but I do not like information leaked that costs human lives and no matter your feelings on soldiers you can't say they aren't human.

[darkeyes]

http://garrison.leavenworth.army.mil/sites/about/history.asp

Fran, Ft. Leavenworth is traditionally where military prisoners go to spend their terms of confinement.

As for the rest... again as I've said I'm torn. I love information but I do not like information leaked that costs human lives and no matter your feelings on soldiers you can't say they aren't human.

I know what it is, not where it is Darling darling, but wos makin a funny wile makin a point by suggestin it was name of pub...

..an no Darling, darling would never suggest squaddies, jolly Jack Tars or flyboys arent human.. they have the best and worst of us in their number however much I loathe the military as an institution.. but sometimes keepin secrets to save human lives is to save some human lives only..those of the soldiers who will do this or that..and by not doing so will cost the lives of many others.. a conundrum indeed.. even for me.. none however if it was an attack on what I believe to be a civilian target..

[DuckiesDarling]

I know what it is, not where it is Darling darling, but wos makin a funny wile makin a point by suggestin it was name of pub...

..an no Darling, darling would never suggest squaddies, jolly Jack Tars or flyboys arent human.. they have the best and worst of us in their number however much I loathe the military as an institution.. but sometimes keepin secrets to save human lives is to save some human lives only..those of the soldiers who will do this or that..and by not doing so will cost the lives of many others.. a conundrum indeed.. even for me.. none however if it was an attack on what I believe to be a civilian target..

That's why I put the link, Fran dear. It's in Kansas :)

[Gay2Bi]

Now, Marie, apparently there is some question as to what Manning meant by that transitioning remark. I read that as well on a site but there is no conclusion as to whether he meant transition from military to civilian life or from male to female, a vast difference between the two.

Given the context, I read it as "transition to civilian life," which can be an issue for many soldiers who have seen combat. Just the other day, I was waiting to get a haircut and two army soldiers were in the shop. They'd struck up a conversation because one of the older man's kids was getting a military haircut and that led to the revelation that they were both army and that the younger man's troop was actually scheduled to deploy to relieve the older man's troop (they were both on leave).

As they sat there discussing their experiences, the theme that kept popping up was that they had no one else to talk to about what they'd seen, that civilian's don't understand, and the older man kept insisting that the younger man find someone through the base that he could talk to rather than try to keep it all inside because the older man had seen too many people crack while trying to deal with things that they couldn't discuss with their significant others and other civilians. It was actually both sad and heartwarming - sad because of what these men had gone through as part of their service, but heartwarming because they genuinely bonded over a shared sense of isolation in a matter of minutes. At least now the younger guy has someone who understands if he needs to talk and maybe that might spare him further problems down the road when he eventually does transition to civilian life.