monogamous mixed orientation marriages

[mamadee]

hi...

i've been lurking for a while and decided i'd ask a question...i've searched the forums and didn't find exactly what i was looking for...

i'm a straight woman married to a bicurious/bisexual man (he's not sure himself)...we both want to have a monogamous relationship and i'm curious if anybody has any suggestions as to how to satisfy his desires within the confines of him having no physical contact with men...

we both are decidedly against phone/cyber/cam sex (for both him and me)...

we tried a gay porn video and (without going into details) that didn't go well for us...we may revisit that in the future, but for the time being that's out...

in the past (not since he came out to me) we have read gay erotic stories...i'm not sure how that would go at this point...

i do use a vibrator on him for massage purposes only (i stuck it in once and he didn't enjoy that--i think his desires are more along the oral side--and just being attracted to men in general)...

any suggestions from a straight woman married to (or in a committed relationship with) a bi man or from a bi man who is monogamous (only with his wife/SO) would be greatly appreciated...

i've started therapy (many issues, not just his bi orientation--but his coming out was the catalyst)...

we start couples therapy next week and he starts individual therapy early next month...

we're trying to navigate this and i'm married to a wonderful man--separation/divorce is not even something i would consider...i honestly would sooner die...

thanks in advance for helpful suggestions...i am not trying to "change" him...i am not trying to deny his orientation...but just as i don't want him to have intimate contact (sexual or emotional) with another woman, i don't want him to have it with a man either...i want our relationship to remain exclusive...and he has stated he wants the same...we have been married almost 12 years and i trust him completely...

[just4mefc]

Interesting dilemma for sure. I think you are both on the right path. I personally am a big fan of the therapy process and I trust you will find your way through this. Be patient with each other. It will be a challenging journey but one of even greater connection if you allow it. May I suggest you make sure you find a Psychologist for your couples therapy. Many "counselors" are not psychologist and you are delving into some really great but intense stuff here. I have been to both types of therapy and I can say with the utmost honesty that the non-psycholgist were way under qualified. Just my 2 cents.

Both my wife and I are Bi and we have been monogamous for at least 7 years now. But that was not the case in the beginning... I did not know I was "bi" until I got together with my wife. Now at that time I knew she was bi but I was very str8 and had zero sexual attraction to men. I was a trisexual (try anything) . She was very open about her sexuality and we did have ffm sex a time or two. Then she wanted to try a str8 3 some mfm. I thought ok sounds like fun. We had a mutual str8 friend who was very attracted to her and we all went out one night for a dinner that led to us all in the bed together. Once things began she gave me a nudge in the right direction and I discovered I was indeed bisexual. We had many an encounter together from that point on. I had a few male on male encounters without her at that time as well. Then as we became a committed couple we both stopped having sex with other partners of either gender. To me it is the same as saying I married a brunette but I am still attracted to redheads. Bisexuality (like hair color) is not an excuse to cheat on my partner (IMHO). Attraction is not an issue it is what we do with it that matters. I married a woman and I still might like sex with a man or a woman but I am in a committed fulfilling relationship with my wife.

BUT I had the chance to really explore my sexuality and your husband has not had that yet. Might be more difficult for him at first. Now in our case we watch gay and bi porn and we enjoy each others attraction to same sex. If we see someone on TV we will comment (he is hot or she is sexy kind of stuff) to each other. The Bi energy is in our relationship all the time, but the actions are monogamous. We do use toys and that is lots of fun and I do have chat sex with men from time to time. It is much easier for us because we really rejoice in the others desires and fantasies. I don't think of it as "man I can never have that again" I am just enjoying the now and that does not include male on male sex.

I know you are in a scary place and I would love to say "there there all will be ok" but it is not that easy. I do believe that if you commit to stay together no matter what, you will come to a really intimate place in your relationship. Try to go with the flow and see it as a chance to go beyond anything you ever thought possible. It might hurt from time to time. But keep in mind his attraction to men and his self discovery, as to what that might mean does not in itself diminish his love for you. Nor is it a comment on your personal value. It is different then saying "that woman has a better ass then mine so he slept with her" it is an issue of self identity. Hopefully he will discover as many have here that "bisexual" is so much and identity as it is an openness. You will discover that the term "bi" runs a wide wide gamut of desire and action.

To me the key is to stay open in your communication. To give him the space to find out what being "bi" means to him. I think anyone can get through anything when all are honest and open. If we shut down the other person we wind up hurt as they cheat or become resentful. Don't try to control the future so much, let it roll and you will grow with it.

Big Hug and keep the faith!

[gfofbiguy]

This is a great site for information and helping both the bi-spouse as well as the str8 spouse - I am str8 myself, and my b/f is bi and we both are members of this site. Also, there is a yahoo group call MMOM (monogamous mixed orientation marriages) that the two of you might join - here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mmom/

Good luck to you both!!

~~Gfofbiguy

[DuckiesDarling]

Okay here goes, I'm in a monogamous relationship with a bisexual male. He told me before we got involved and we decided on a monogamous relationship. Feeldoes are great but you mentioned he didn't like penetration. You might want to insert the pony in yourself and let him suck your cock *the feeldoe horse end* You can use lots of lube on your finger and just massage his anus and slowly work your finger in. Even straight guys enjoy a prostrate massage.

You can be monogamous and satisfy his desires if you are a bit adventurous. I wish you all the luck in the world.

[onewhocares]

This is a great site for information and helping both the bi-spouse as well as the str8 spouse - I am str8 myself, and my b/f is bi and we both are members of this site. Also, there is a yahoo group call MMOM (monogamous mixed orientation marriages) that the two of you might join - here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mmom/

Good luck to you both!!

~~Gfofbiguy

I was going to suggest this as well as two other Yahoo Groups:

Alternate Path- for the wives and significant others of bi and gay men who want their relationships, mostly marriages to work.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alternatepath/


HUGS- a group where both partners must join and which offers viewpoints and support from both sides

.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HUGS_Couples2/


Try and check out both. Both Groups have face to face get togethers...I hosted one for the wives on Cape Cod last month. There is a couple gathering in New York City in July.

Belle

[bikiniman]

I have been married and monogamous for over 10 years and have recently discovered I am bi-sexual.

I would not expect my wife to approve of me of having sex with another woman and therefore would not expect her or even ask her to approve of me having sex with a man. Whilst we have not discussed it phone/cyber/cam sex this fall into the same category.

This leaves me in the difficult circumstance of trying to explore, understand and satisfy my bi-sexual desires whilst remaining monogamous.

I have been down the counselling route and would recommend it, providing your counsellor is bi-friendly. I admitted my bi-sexuality to my counsellor first before telling my wife.

I watch gay pornography on my own, as my wife is not into porn, which I find helpful. I am not yet comfortable fully expressing my bi-sexuality with my wife and maybe I never will.

I think the power of imagination and sexual fantasy should not be overlooked as a valuable tool.

I would ask your husband to share with you some of his bi-sexual fantasies and then try to incorporate some of this in to your sex life.

Good Luck

[Pasadenacpl2]

Interestingly, my wife would rather I have sex with another man than another woman. Odd, but true.

I respect those who choose to be monogamous. Monogamy is hard, and those that can make it work have my admiration.

Pasa

[gfofbiguy]

I was going to suggest this as well as two other Yahoo Groups:

Alternate Path- for the wives and significant others of bi and gay men who want their relationships, mostly marriages to work.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alternatepath/


HUGS- a group where both partners must join and which offers viewpoints and support from both sides

.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HUGS_Couples2/


Try and check out both. Both Groups have face to face get togethers...I hosted one for the wives on Cape Cod last month. There is a couple gathering in New York City in July.

Belle

hehehe, great minds think alike! :)

[gfofbiguy]

Interestingly, my wife would rather I have sex with another man than another woman. Odd, but true.

Pasa

I feel exactly the same way as Mrs. Pasa, I would much rather my b/f have sex with another man than another woman - as he knows.

~~Gfofbiguy

[tenni]

I don't think that it is odd that Mrs. Pasa has such a perspective. Personally, I think that it is most reasonable and rationale. It indicates that she has a good self esteem, respect and love for you Pasa.

One of my concerns/complaints about a mixed orientation relationship is the monogomous component that some believe in. I think that it is much more logical to accept that a bisexual needs both genders and in fact may deal with their emotions differently than the hetero partner. This is particularly true for those bisexuals who enter a traditional monogomous relationship with the opposite gender before they are aware of their bisexuality. It requires a certain openness and maturity on the hetero partner to separate their feelings /fears of insecurity that are logical but perhaps misplaced. They will never be able to provide what the bisexual wants/desires/needs. Dildos may do the trick for male bisexuals who want anal penetration for awhile. If the bisexual has wider needs then that won't do it for long. They will be required to deny in some respects who they are. I know many disagree with me on this site and so be it. My thoughts may be wrong for some bisexuals.


Interestingly, my wife would rather I have sex with another man than another woman. Odd, but true.

I respect those who choose to be monogamous. Monogamy is hard, and those that can make it work have my admiration.

Pasa

[just4mefc]

I don't think that it is odd that Mrs. Pasa has such a perspective. Personally, I think that it is most reasonable and rationale. It indicates that she has a good self esteem, respect and love for you Pasa.

One of my concerns/complaints about a mixed orientation relationship is the monogomous component that some believe in. I think that it is much more logical to accept that a bisexual needs both genders and in fact may deal with their emotions differently than the hetero partner. This is particularly true for those bisexuals who enter a traditional monogomous relationship with the opposite gender before they are aware of their bisexuality. It requires a certain openness and maturity on the hetero partner to separate their feelings /fears of insecurity that are logical but perhaps misplaced. They will never be able to provide what the bisexual wants/desires/needs. Dildos may do the trick for male bisexuals who want anal penetration for awhile. If the bisexual has wider needs then that won't do it for long. They will be required to deny in some respects who they are. I know many disagree with me on this site and so be it. My thoughts may be wrong for some bisexuals.

I will not say your thoughts are wrong, they are your own and based on your own opinion so they can not be "wrong" per se. I do however disagree. To me the problem with saying how a "bisexual" should act or be entitled too is impossible! Bisexual runs way to wide a gambit. Speaking for myself, as a Bi labeled man, I do not see my orientation having anything to do with my ability to be monogamous. When I was straight I did not get to go to my brunette girl friend and say "you are denying me my desire for redheads" etc etc... I feel being bisexual means I am open to either gender as a partner and potential lover. But just as I was open to brunette's and redheads I fell in love with a brunette and that meant no more redheads.

Now I do understand that when one discovers they have bisexual desires after being in a long term monogamous relationship it would be very difficult to never get in touch with what that might mean. But I think many bi ppl see this as an excuse perhaps showing a lack of commitment by the bi partner.

Just as str8's run the gambit of open marriage to complete monogamy bi's are the same. Some bi sexual ppl speak in terms of "needs" of same sex while others see it as want for same sex. So each person must define if it is a need or a want for themselves?

I think if we are open and honest, then too each is own.

:2cents:

[tenni]

I agree with you just4mefc that there are different situations as to when a person realizes their bisexuality and it may impact on a previously established monogomous relationship quite differently than a person who explored their bisexuality before entering a monogomous relationship. Some of the former (unknowing entering a mono relationship) may very well be able to be monogomous but they may also experience difficulty and uncertainty. There may remain doubts as to whether they really are bisexual and their identity itself may be impacted. Still, they may also make a decision that their monogomous relationship is worth it. I have known such types. One waited until his wife died before exploring his bisexuality. He then decided that he would never enter another relationship with a woman. (He was in his 50's by then). He felt that he had denied himself all the years that he remained quiet. He never disclosed it to his wife. In hind sight he regretted his mixed orientation relationship but he seemed to continue to love very deeply his deceased wife as he visited her grave every two to three weeks even three years after her death. He had moved and needed to drive for three hours to get to her grave.

I agree that the wide range of bisexuality makes it difficult to declare a one size fits all formula. Why would that not impact a variety of differences as to whether a monogomous relationship with a hetero partner be defined differently than what the main stream define it? I know that my thoughts make some people tell me that I'm wrong...it is not monogomy yada yada. Traditional monogomy no. It is polyfedility or something like that. It does require a hetero partner to broaden their understanding of the bi partner. So why not redefine your traditional monogomous relationship? Bisexuality is quite differently than whether the potential person is a brunette or red head though from my perspective. Very different parts that are sexual in nature is different than mere hair colour. Although if that is how you exist as a biman and it makes sense. Good for you.

Your statement about being open and honest is a good "theory" and a good goal.

[bikiniman]

I agree with you just4mefc that there are different situations as to when a person realizes their bisexuality and it may impact on a previously established monogomous relationship quite differently than a person who explored their bisexuality before entering a monogomous relationship. Some of the former (unknowing entering a mono relationship) may very well be able to be monogomous but they may also experience difficulty and uncertainty. There may remain doubts as to whether they really are bisexual and their identity itself may be impacted. Still, they may also make a decision that their monogomous relationship is worth it.

You have hit the mark here for me Tenni. It has been 2 since I realised my bisexuality (I have been married for 16 years) and I experience great difficulty and uncertainty. I believe that my monogomous relationship is worth it but I do not think that I can go through my the rest of my life without knowing or experiencing sex with another man. As you said in an earlier post Dildos can only do the trick for a while.

[Long Duck Dong]

the issue I have, and its one I have always had.... is why do bisexuals enter into a relationship with one person, telling them they are bisexual.... and feel that its a automatic right to have the partner and the extra sexual lifestyle.....

if your partner allows for the extra sexual enjoyment, its a non issue..... but too often its portrayed as a selfish partner not allowing the bisexual the extra sexual encounters.... and i am interested to notice how we can portray it as the selfish partner, but the bisexual is not selfish for wanting their partner and their extra sexual roaming as well

I am a monogamous bi male by choice, as I have admitted that extra sexual encounters lead to me feeling a sense of betrayal of my partner, regardless if I have permission or not......
yes I do have the desires for a good deep, long and hard pounding... but I balance it out with the understanding that my ( female I am male ) partner can deliever that with a feeldoe, and while its not perfect... it beats a few weeks of the guilt trip and self loathing of myself.....

before anybody says that its social conditioning and religion based feelings.... I have a on going loyalty to my ex partners, that outlasts the relationships, so its not social / religion enforced thinking..... but indeed a personal trait of mine, to not turn my back on people just cos the relationship has ended.......

at the end of the day, my partner is equal to me... if they can not handle a straying partner, that is not selfish at all.... not all of us can handle straying partners or open relationships..... and my partner is not responsibility for my bisexuality..... but I am responsibility for my actions, deeds and my choice to be monogamous or not..... and from that, I make a choice for my partner that she may not agree with... so she should have the right to stay or go ....not have the choice made for her by me

[just4mefc]

You have hit the mark here for me Tenni. It has been 2 since I realised my bisexuality (I have been married for 16 years) and I experience great difficulty and uncertainty. I believe that my monogomous relationship is worth it but I do not think that I can go through my the rest of my life without knowing or experiencing sex with another man. As you said in an earlier post Dildos can only do the trick for a while.

I think this hits my point on the head, Bikini seems to be saying he has a "need" to discover his sexual Identity. This is different then a "want".

I "want" to eat all the candy in the store. I "need" to get gas for the car. I personally want to have sex with other men and do not want to have sex with women (other then my sexy wife). I "need" the love of my life, my best friend, my wife. Therefore, I happily choose to be monogamous (or not) within her comfort level. I am not saying this applies to all bi ppl. Bikini seems to be in a deeper "need" type place and I do not begrudge him that.

[just4mefc]

Tenni...

"...Some of the former (unknowing entering a mono relationship) may very well be able to be monogomous but they may also experience difficulty and uncertainty. There may remain doubts as to whether they really are bisexual and their identity itself may be impacted...."

Here is where we part on this issue. I do not think that the behavior has much to do with the identity

from the american psychological assoc. (APA)...
Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others. ....Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex.... Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. Individuals may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.

Just as a monk knows he is still straight regardless of his behavior so does a bi person know they are bi regardless of there current actions.

Still, they may also make a decision that their monogomous relationship is worth it. I have known such types. One waited until his wife died before exploring his bisexuality. He then decided that he would never enter another relationship with a woman. (He was in his 50's by then). He felt that he had denied himself all the years that he remained quiet. He never disclosed it to his wife. In hind sight he regretted his mixed orientation relationship but he seemed to continue to love very deeply his deceased wife as he visited her grave every two to three weeks even three years after her death. He had moved and needed to drive for three hours to get to her grave.

Sounds more like the classic gay closeted marriage to me.

....It is polyfedility or something like that. It does require a hetero partner to broaden their understanding of the bi partner....

So does the str8 partner get to have outside physical relationships as well?

So why not redefine your traditional monogomous relationship? Bisexuality is quite differently than whether the potential person is a brunette or red head though from my perspective. Very different parts that are sexual in nature is different than mere hair colour. Although if that is how you exist as a biman and it makes sense. Good for you.

Again as an IDENTITY of self. Behavior is not the issue. What you are speaking of sounds more like sexual desire then orientation and identity. I feel a person can have same sex contact and not be bisexual. The classic "I was in college" or "I was drunk one time" does not make the person str8 bi nor gay. Just as Str8 ppl run extremes in sexual desire and behavior so do bi ppl. But wanting to take it up the ass does not make you bi nor gay, you might simply like the pressure on your prostate. If I shove a dildo up my ass I do it cause it feels good. This is sexual desire not orientation.

Your statement about being open and honest is a good "theory" and a good goal.

Not a theory at all it is a commitment! Not a commitment to the other person but a commitment to ones self!!! I am a Taoist by nature and in my personal view finding and being in one's true self is the point of life. The key word there being TRUE as in TRUTH. If one must lie then there can be no discovery of true self. Takes extreme courage and often has extreme consequences. But I feel if you really love your partner you will be true to them as well as you. Years ago I cheated on every woman I ever knew. I learned it was soul crushing for both my partner and myself. Once I had that epiphany I never cheated again. This has caused pain at times but nothing like the soul crushing experience of seeing the hurt in a partners cheated eyes.

[just4mefc]

Long Duck Dong...

.... is why do bisexuals enter into a relationship with one person, telling them they are bisexual.... and feel that its a automatic right to have the partner and the extra sexual lifestyle.....

if your partner allows for the extra sexual enjoyment, its a non issue..... but too often its portrayed as a selfish partner not allowing the bisexual the extra sexual encounters.... and i am interested to notice how we can portray it as the selfish partner, but the bisexual is not selfish for wanting their partner and their extra sexual roaming as well...

...at the end of the day, my partner is equal to me... if they can not handle a straying partner, that is not selfish at all.... not all of us can handle straying partners or open relationships..... and my partner is not responsibility for my bisexuality..... but I am responsibility for my actions, deeds and my choice to be monogamous or not..... so she should have the right to stay or go ....not have the choice made for her by me

I agree with you whole heartedly!
Just like it is not fair for a str8 man who is a swinger to marry a woman who is not and then expect her to let him participate in swinging while she takes care of the house and mines her place. Now if all parties are on board for the fun sex lifestyle regardless of orientation then great everyone have fun. But sexual desire is separate from being "bisexual" All this fulfills the myth that all bisexual ppl just want to be sex fiends. Perhaps some bi aware ppl are using this as an excuse to have it all. As you said, who is the selfish party in that scenario? IMHO if you are to really find out who you are you must find your true nature and that can only happen with honesty to self and partner

[tenni]

just4mefc

The question of sexual orientation or identity is complicated and much more varied than the AMA definition but they do refer to the "continuum". Psychologists who have researched bisexuality do not agree with your interpretation of the AMA definition but it has been a few years since I read their research. Didn't the AMA classify homosexuality as a mental illness at one time? I think that is important not to forget.

If you focus a bit more on their definition section "Individuals may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors." it indicates various forms of expressing one's biseuxality and a possible variance in needs for bisexuals. There is no judgement. No one is stating that a bisexual is incapable of remaining monogamous. What may be examined by unbiased studies is what factors makes some bisexuals live in a monogamous relationship? What factors make a bisexual reject monogamous relationships or find it difficult to adhere to?

Bisexuality does not need an emotional component for some bisexuals and that would be part of the continuum of bisexuality. Hell, heterosexuality does not need an emotional/affectional component for some...lol Affection for same or opposite gender is just one indication of deciding about sexual identity. Some bisexuals are capable of establishing an emotional relationship with both genders while others remain only capable for opposite sex but have a sexual attraction for same sex activity. Whether they identify as bisexual may be another matter though.

Although I can partially agree that sexual identity is not always shown in sexual behaviour, to refer to a person as a closeted gay man seems to be placing yourself in a judgement position. I wondered if he was gay myself though but it was not my position to judge. I think that the various components that were impacting him since he was still grieving the death of his wife may alter over the next few years. He may very well be gay. Bisexuals may live in a same sex relationship and still be bisexual. Some in such a relationship may not "need" hetero contact while some may. It is the same for hetero bisexual relationships.

If find your posting 16 entering into a judgemental position and that is not constructive for any bisexual and how they decide to live their life. Other posters have demonstrated more tolerance. I think that it is more positive when I read bisexuals tell others who wonder about their sexual identity to ignore the labels and be who you feel that you are. Since the OP has disclosed that her husband is wondering about his sexual identity and she is asking him to remain monogamous, I am inclined to see her desire for monogamy at a higher importance than her husband's identity. I wonder if she is really asking him to deny knowing himself. He may or may not be able to handle that. Whether he need to test the waters or not only he knows. It is clearly an increasing need for him or he may not have disclosed. He may not be bisexual at all. Fantasy is not reality.

[just4mefc]

just4mefc

The question of sexual orientation or identity is complicated and much more varied than the AMA definition. Psychologists who have researched bisexuality do not agree with the AMA but it has been a few years since I read their research. Maybe they have changed their perspective. Didn't the AMA classify homosexuality as a mental illness at one time?

Bisexuality does not need an emotional component for some bisexuals and that would be part of the continuum of bisexuality. Hell, heterosexuality does not need an emotional component for some...lol

To refer to a person as a closeted gay man seems to be placing yourself in a judgement position. I wondered if he was gay myself though. I think that the various components that were impacting him since he was still grieving the death of his wife may alter over the next few years. He may very well be gay.

If find your posting 16 entering into a judgemental position and that is not constructive for any bisexual and how they decide to live their life.

First let me say, So sorry to have offended you! I am not in anyway judgmental regarding your friend I simply meant it as an observation not a judgement. I have known several gay men who lived closeted lives and they were great human beings and had similar stories so again I am not judging him in any way what so ever!!!

I do not have a reference for the AMA (american medical association nor for their branch the American psychiatric association confusingly also called the APA) but the American Psychological Association - APA did at one time in the 70s classify homosexuality as a mental disorder. Of note this was a more of a political stand and was later rescinded to be in line with the scientific data.

regarding my post 16 what do you find judgmental? I did say IMHO (in my humble opinion) and this was in response to Long's post. It was not intended to be judgmental in terms of judging HOW another might live. But it is my opinion and I stand by it! It is not fair to one's partner to lie. It hurts the partner and it hurts the lying person as well. So if that is judgmental then it is what it is. If someone does not like being called out on their disingenuous nature... then to paraphrase Shakespeare "Me thinks they do protest too much"

[tenni]

just4mefc
Thanks for your clarification. As I wrote, I wondered about him myself but said nothing to him. He was a casual friend and has moved away. I do not hear from him but I would suspect that he is a very monogomous person regardless of his sexual identity. You actually read more like a gay man who thinks all people are either gay or straight but I see that is not your position now.

Sorry if I mixed up the AMA with the APA. I think that studies of bisexuality seem still rather new and that definitions will change. I hope that you understood my placing a greater importance on their meaning of continuum. I wonder if that is a catch all word because of the lack of research?

As far as the OP and your concern about honesty; are not your concerns resoled because the bisexual partner did disclose to the hetero partner? Again, though I read judgement about whether a bisexual should disclose. You may very well be right but all circumstances are not uniform and as bisexuals it may be more tolerant to acknowledge this. The husband is still left uncertain about his sexual identity even though he has been honest in disclosing to his hetero wife. He seems now expected to put his identity in her hands.... hmmm some accept that and others may not. I wish them well but his conditions about discovering his sexual identity remain unclear. Maybe, counselling may help him? I do know that some are curious and test the waters to retreat. What I do not know but have heard is that later in life some eventually acknowledge their sexuality while others realize that there was a fantasy and it is not who they really are. To get to that point, they had to try it. It also may take time. With today's more open discussions on sexuality it is not surprising that some wonder or are curious. I also believe that for some older men (in particular but not excluding women) who were not raised in today's open society there are factors that make them curious and want to explore. For some, it never entered their mind until well over 40. Will this be same in twenty years or will this test happen earlier in life? I don't know what makes a person either acknowledge their sexuality or change their sexuality. I believe that both are possible and especially for bisexuals who are not aware of their bisexuality.

I may protest too much due to my experience on this thread and my own perceptions about how I and other bisexuals chose to live our lives....lol

[just4mefc]

tenni...

... I wonder if that is a catch all word because of the lack of research?

Well certainly plays a part. The research is very difficult because there are so many shades of bisexual. Ppl who will accept a blow job but not reciprocate, people who love to have mmf sex but not m/m nor f/f sex, those who love both genders equally and could be in love with either, and what about those that same sex encounters are more of a fetish then an identity? on and on and on...

To top it off it appears that for most bisexual people there is really no need for the coming out process at all. With so many people potentially in this group not speaking or even needing much help, well that is a hard group to study.

As far as the OP and your concern about honesty; are not your concerns resoled because the bisexual partner did disclose to the hetero partner?

Admittedly we appear to have highjacked her post. We have wondered off into more general stuff.

Again, though I read judgement about whether a bisexual should disclose. You may very well be right but all circumstances are not uniform and as bisexuals it may be more tolerant to acknowledge this.

I only feel strong about disclosure of behavior. It is up to the individual to decide if they need to disclose there orientation to there partner. I would hope so because it can be a great thing but then again it might only be fantasy and the partner might freak out for nothing

The husband is still left uncertain about his sexual identity even though he has been honest in disclosing to his hetero wife. He seems now expected to put his identity in her hands.... hmmm some accept that and others may not. I wish them well but his conditions about discovering his sexual identity remain unclear. Maybe, counselling may help him?

I think it will work out as long as both are open and honest. Who knows it might be more about the energy of sex from boredom in a long term relationship then about being "bi" A very confusing time for them I am sure.

[mamadee]

thanks for the responses...i thought i would find a lot more tolerance here than i did...but thanks to everybody for their opinions...

btw, my husband has the capacity to love anybody, but that does not mean he needs to go have sex with every person he sees to just "make sure"...

my wanting a monogamous relationship is not me being controlling, this is both of us having decided to have a monogamous relationship when we married (and that goes both ways--i have been propositioned by my ex-boyfriend for sex but i will not have sex with him because i am in a monogamous relationship with my husband)...if that's not your thing, great, but do not assume that i am a bitch because i don't want my husband to have sexual contact with other men (or women)...

i accept that he has desires, but that does not mean i need to accept him going outside of the marriage for sex...

i will find another group where tolerance of other peoples' opinions is practiced, not just preached...we tried signing up for that monogamous mixed orientation marriage list but never heard back from them...is that even active any more?

so sorry to have offended any bis out there who think because they like both men and women (and possibly transgendered) that monogamy is crap...

[DuckiesDarling]

hugs, Mamadee, monogamy most certainly does exist among all people but it's a matter of choice. Some choose it, some don't. Those of us who do are happy, those that don't are happy.

[TaylorMade]

Interestingly, my wife would rather I have sex with another man than another woman. Odd, but true.

I respect those who choose to be monogamous. Monogamy is hard, and those that can make it work have my admiration.

Pasa

Not really that odd. She knows she doesn't have the corresponding parts another man does, so . . .no threat.

Lord knows if I had a bi boyfriend and we were working toward an open relationship, I'd start from the same sex end and work it outward.

*Taylor*

[csrakate]

Mamadee,
It is possible to be monogamous and happy with a bisexual spouse and I am sorry you have been given the impression that no one is being supportive about it. I have written to you privately and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me through this site.

Hugs,
Kate

[gfofbiguy]

i will find another group where tolerance of other peoples' opinions is practiced, not just preached...we tried signing up for that monogamous mixed orientation marriage list but never heard back from them...is that even active any more?


As far as I know, that MMOM - monogamous mixed orientation marriage group is still active. Sometimes it does go quiet for a while and sometimes it takes a bit for them to get back to you when you sign up. Maybe send them another request? I do know that group is very supportive and I found that it really helped me as well. Also the group HUGS that Belle/onewhocares is very supportive as well, and they do have couples who are in open marriages as well as in CLR (closed loop relationships) as well as monogamous couples in that group.

Good luck, Mamadee. I'm sorry you feel this site isn't supportive - I've always found great support here, and the ones I don't care for I don't read or just ignore. Kind of like "take what you like and leave the rest".

~~Gfofbiguy

[foreverbi]

hi...

i've been lurking for a while and decided i'd ask a question...i've searched the forums and didn't find exactly what i was looking for...

i'm a straight woman married to a bicurious/bisexual man (he's not sure himself)...we both want to have a monogamous relationship and i'm curious if anybody has any suggestions as to how to satisfy his desires within the confines of him having no physical contact with men...

we both are decidedly against phone/cyber/cam sex (for both him and me)...

we tried a gay porn video and (without going into details) that didn't go well for us...we may revisit that in the future, but for the time being that's out...

in the past (not since he came out to me) we have read gay erotic stories...i'm not sure how that would go at this point...

i do use a vibrator on him for massage purposes only (i stuck it in once and he didn't enjoy that--i think his desires are more along the oral side--and just being attracted to men in general)...

any suggestions from a straight woman married to (or in a committed relationship with) a bi man or from a bi man who is monogamous (only with his wife/SO) would be greatly appreciated...

i've started therapy (many issues, not just his bi orientation--but his coming out was the catalyst)...

we start couples therapy next week and he starts individual therapy early next month...

we're trying to navigate this and i'm married to a wonderful man--separation/divorce is not even something i would consider...i honestly would sooner die...

thanks in advance for helpful suggestions...i am not trying to "change" him...i am not trying to deny his orientation...but just as i don't want him to have intimate contact (sexual or emotional) with another woman, i don't want him to have it with a man either...i want our relationship to remain exclusive...and he has stated he wants the same...we have been married almost 12 years and i trust him completely...

If you want to help him live out his bi fantasies give him a B/J, but do not swallow his cum. Instead give him a a big wet French Kiss. If he's anything like me it just might satisfy his bi side without his cheating on you. As time goes by try using a dildo or strap-on again as he will probably crave your helping him with his bi feelings. It works when my wife does this for me & I would not EVER think of divorce.

[allbimyself]

I agree that the wide range of bisexuality makes it difficult to declare a one size fits all formula. Why would that not impact a variety of differences as to whether a monogomous relationship with a hetero partner be defined differently than what the main stream define it? I know that my thoughts make some people tell me that I'm wrong...it is not monogomy yada yada. Traditional monogomy no. It is polyfedility or something like that. It does require a hetero partner to broaden their understanding of the bi partner. So why not redefine your traditional monogomous relationship? Bisexuality is quite differently than whether the potential person is a brunette or red head though from my perspective. Very different parts that are sexual in nature is different than mere hair colour. Although if that is how you exist as a biman and it makes sense. Good for you.

Your statement about being open and honest is a good "theory" and a good goal.You're projecting. I don't recall anyone here EVER saying that you're "wrong" because "it is not monogomy (sic)." Many, myself included, have taken issue with the idea that because one is bi, one has a license to cheat. "We're bi, we don't have to accept society's norms." You are right, you do NOT have to accept society's norms BUT, unless you discuss it with your partner, they have a very reasonable expectation that you will accept those norms.

That's why they are called norms. No one says that two adults in a relationship can't define what they expect from each other, what is allowed and what isn't. But if you don't define that with your partner, the "societal norm" has to be the default. Saying otherwise is only a lame attempt to salve your conscience.

I hear you say often that bisexuals should have their own "norms." I disagree for three reasons. One, that doesn't solve anything. The diversity of human emotion, experience, etc. means that it isn't as simple as saying "here's a norm for str8s, here's a norm for bisexuals, here's a norm for gays." Two, who defines what is the norm for bisexuals? You? That isn't how a societal norm comes into being.

Third and most importantly, it doesn't matter! Even if you could say "X is the norm for bisexuals" it doesn't relieve you of the obligation you have to your partner. If your partner thinks you are str8 then they would have the reasonable expectation that you would abide by the norm for straight people. If you don't tell your partner you are bi, you can't expect them to accept you as bi!

Mamadee, my apologies for contributing to the hijacking of your thread.

[coyotedude]

I am a bisexual male in a monogamous mixed marriage. My wife is straight and is accepting of my bisexuality, but is not comfortable with sharing me with a man. We've been married nearly 14 years now, and my wife has known of my bisexuality since the night we first started dating.

It is certainly possible to maintain a healthy, loving monogamous relationship with a bisexual man. It requires hard work and commitment from both of you to make it happen. It also requires open and honest communication between the two of you - not only speaking from your heart, but being able to listen to what the other has to say. (But then, isn't that true of any relationship?) I'm glad to hear that the two of you are in counseling; I think that working through these issues in a safe environment will be important for your relationship to not only survive, but to continue to grow.

I won't lie to you; it won't always be easy. You asked whether there are ways for you to satisfy his desires for male sex, and honestly I think there are limits to what you can do. In my experience as a bisexual male, sex with a man is different from sex with a woman - and not just because of the obvious differences in plumbing.

Yet what the two of you have in your relationship is precious and special. Your commitment to each other is valuable, and it is not lacking because you are a straight woman and not a bisexual man. It appears your partner is very well aware of that, and I applaud him for that awareness.

One of the complications that is coming through in this thread is that the word "bisexuality" is a label that covers a broad range of thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. For me personally, there is a difference between bisexuality and polyamory or polyfidelity, although some bisexuals happen also to be poly. There are bisexuals, however, who feel strongly that strictly monogamous relationships are too restrictive to accommodate their own personal expressions of their bisexuality. Please understand that this is a controversial question within the bisexual community itself. Our community is a diverse lot, as this one thread indicates!

I certainly cannot claim to speak for all bisexual men, but I hope this helps, for what it is worth.

Peace

[citystyleguy]

thanks for the responses...i thought i would find a lot more tolerance here than i did...but thanks to everybody for their opinions...

btw, my husband has the capacity to love anybody, but that does not mean he needs to go have sex with every person he sees to just "make sure"...

my wanting a monogamous relationship is not me being controlling, this is both of us having decided to have a monogamous relationship when we married (and that goes both ways--i have been propositioned by my ex-boyfriend for sex but i will not have sex with him because i am in a monogamous relationship with my husband)...if that's not your thing, great, but do not assume that i am a bitch because i don't want my husband to have sexual contact with other men (or women)...

i accept that he has desires, but that does not mean i need to accept him going outside of the marriage for sex...

i will find another group where tolerance of other peoples' opinions is practiced, not just preached...we tried signing up for that monogamous mixed orientation marriage list but never heard back from them...is that even active any more?

so sorry to have offended any bis out there who think because they like both men and women (and possibly transgendered) that monogamy is crap...

...now here is a major reason we need to focus on the question from the poster, and leave all these side tangents for another time, place, and thread!!!

as to her question, probably too late now, she is a hetero woman in a marriage (or any other type of ltr) to a bi-guy, and has an honest question. simply put she has staked her position, but has attempted to be accommedating with her man, even seeking therapy. in his turn, he has chosen to accept her position, at the same time trying other possible options that each can accept individually, as well as a couple.

as there are several people in this website neighborhood who are in the very same situation, or have been, much can be gathered to help you.

for myself, having been in a monogamus marriage (or ltr, whatever type a person finds themself) as an intense bi-sexual male with a singularly hetero woman, it comes down to those choices we must make down our pathway of life. for me it was to stay, to remain monogamus completly and fully to her alone. it was a decision not taken lightly, and has stayed with me down the years, even now years after the relationship ended.

as the poster has long fled from this site, more than likely, i still had to put in my piece.

should she return to this site, best wishes in this very important point in your marriage.

damn, focus peeps! ...okay, i am going to my favorite coffeehouse, and get a triple macchiato; i need to calm myself! :cool:

[coyotedude]

...okay, i am going to my favorite coffeehouse, and get a triple macchiato; i need to calm myself! :cool:

Dude, if you're going to get a triple shot to calm yourself, I'm now scared! :eek: (J/K, of course.)

I'm hoping that mamadee will think to take another peek back to her thread, which is why I decided to post. I also think it's important because as you said, a lot of us are in the same position.

We've got to help each other out here. Life is hard enough without us conspiring to slit our own throats. Not that we have to all sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya and pretend we don't have our differences - difference is the spice of life, after all. But let's respect each other like the precious human beings we all are!

Oh, wait, I'm a canine...

Peace

[ninetythree]

i will find another group where tolerance of other peoples' opinions is practiced, not just preached...we tried signing up for that monogamous mixed orientation marriage list but never heard back from them...is that even active any more?

If you are still here, there's another Yahoo Group for mixed-orientation marriages that is actively adding members. I just joined it myself not long ago:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MMOMW/

That group has several couples who are committed to monogamy. My wife and I are doing that. Having a bisexual spouse does not automatically mean you have to accept a non-monogamous relationship. Some people go that route, but others decide they want monogamy.

[onewhocares]

Hubby and I just returned from a weekend in NYC with a group of folks who are trying to make their MOM work. I can tell you the weekend was fantastic as we were able to me some super wonderful folks who, among them were many who were indeed trying to be monogamous and it is working. Is it for everyone? perhaps not. But those who make a commitment to try and make a marriage work...it can be heaven.

Also...there are others who are married and make their marriages work..is it easy..no, most likely not, but they try.

Belle

[biinlou]

Very impressive discussion topic and many insigtful people in our "world of bisexuailty". I have always believed that we, as bisexuals are more thoughtful than people give us credit. Great points brought forward!

Biinllou