Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

[welickit]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.

[tenni]

hmm
This is interesting. You admit that you have set this up to attack in particular bisexuals who are not able to have an open relationship due to their partner not being willing or open to their bisexuality.

This is not a very positive nor supportive approach for bisexuals to discuss our issues in my opinion. You merely want to attack bisexuals who are not able to live up to your expectations and moral values.

Let me be the first to flame you. Bless your heart...and I write this with all the love that you deserve...Fuck off. :)

[Wrenn]

There is no difference. I will never cease to be amazed at some peoples capacity to rationalize their behavior.

[FalconAngel]

To me, discrete is when you do not want the outside world to know and cheat is when you don't want your s/o to know.

The former is not bad, but the latter is bad. There are plenty of Bi couples, straight couples and mixed orientation couples out there that are discrete, but it does not mean that there is cheating going on. In our case, we both try to meet any of the guys that we are interested in, together. It does not always work out that way (when the wife is tired or ill), so the wife sends me off to do the meet and I return and report to her what my feelings are about the guy.

That is not cheating, but it is discrete.

Like I said, if the s/o does not know and is kept in the dark about anything even happening (like lying about it), then that is definitely cheating.

[by~his~side]

I say exactly what he says.

[fredtyg]

Like I said, if the s/o does not know and is kept in the dark about anything even happening (like lying about it), then that is definitely cheating.

I suppose many would think it is cheating but how about this:

Let's say you're older and you and the wife haven't had sex for 6 or 7 years. There's no real desire for it by either of you. The wife has a chronic disease that has taken away her sex drive. You've become more interested in just men, sexually, as you've gotten older so you end up looking for guys to fool around with and succeed now and then.

You're not looking to move out or leave the wife and you're not dumping your wife emotionally. You just enjoy sex activity with a man on occasion.

Is that cheating? I suppose by many folks' definition it is, but I just don't see anything wrong with it. No harm. No foul.

[FalconAngel]

I suppose many would think it is cheating but how about this:

Let's say you're older and you and the wife haven't had sex for 6 or 7 years. There's no real desire for it by either of you. The wife has a chronic disease that has taken away her sex drive. You've become more interested in just men, sexually, as you've gotten older so you end up looking for guys to fool around with and succeed now and then.

You're not looking to move out or leave the wife and you're not dumping your wife emotionally. You just enjoy sex activity with a man on occasion.

Is that cheating? I suppose by many folks' definition it is, but I just don't see anything wrong with it. No harm. No foul.


Yes, it is cheating if she is not aware and approving of it. To not be cheating, the s/o must know and approve.

When you marry someone, you have taken vows to each other and those vows can only be changed if both of you agree to do so.
No one can unilaterally change one side of an agreement, so any changes must be agreed upon by both partners.
Anything else is selfish and disrespectful.

And remember that if you do it to your partner, then they can (and will) do it to you.

[katz368923]

To cheat is to inflict emotional harm by not being truthful to your partner. To be discreet one has to be aware of the emotions of all involved. When my husband and I find someone who is right for our relationship we will be discreet due to my job. If one of us goes out every night and is having sex with whom ever we can find, that is a cheat. A cheat does not care about others feelings, someone who is discreet does.

[Wrenn]

I should clarify my comment. If you say you need to be discreet about what you're doing because you don't want your significant other to find out then it is the same as cheating. If you are discreet to protect your privacy from the rest of the world then that is totally justifiable . How you live your life is no one's business but yours and your significant other, if you have one.

[mikey3000]

I suppose many would think it is cheating but how about this:

Let's say you're older and you and the wife haven't had sex for 6 or 7 years. There's no real desire for it by either of you. The wife has a chronic disease that has taken away her sex drive. You've become more interested in just men, sexually, as you've gotten older so you end up looking for guys to fool around with and succeed now and then.

You're not looking to move out or leave the wife and you're not dumping your wife emotionally. You just enjoy sex activity with a man on occasion.

Is that cheating? I suppose by many folks' definition it is, but I just don't see anything wrong with it. No harm. No foul.

All very good points. But let's take it ove step further. What if one partner looses all interest in sex, yet will not grant their partner permission to find it elsewhere because of a vow made 20-30-40 years ago. Is that partner supposed to only masturbate for the rest of their life? Is that acceptable and/or fair to the active partner?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

There IS no difference. Cheating is cheating. Its selfish, thinking only of ones self, and hurtful. Cheating is lying, and how can Anyone ever trust someone if he/she cant even be trusted by their own spouses to be true and truthful. People can justify it all they like by saying "Oh my wife/husband doesnt want sex anymore, and I have needs." :rolleyes:
If you cant trust them on one subject, how can you trust that they are playing safe and clean behind their spouses' back? You cant trust a cheater and you Damn sure cant trust a liar.
My :2cents:, deal with it.
Cat

[FalconAngel]

All very good points. But let's take it ove step further. What if one partner looses all interest in sex, yet will not grant their partner permission to find it elsewhere because of a vow made 20-30-40 years ago. Is that partner supposed to only masturbate for the rest of their life? Is that acceptable and/or fair to the active partner?

Good question.

Let's address that in a logical and reasonable manner, then. Shall we?

Either you have to be honest with your spouse and communicate or leave the relationship.

Trying to justify cheating is a pretty lame thing to do to someone who is not cheating on you.
And, in a case of cheating on someone because they are cheating, or one thinks that they are cheating on one, does not make it better. It loses the moral high ground.

If you one thinks that one has to cheat, because of an inability to be honest with their s/o then the problem is not the relationship. It is the person who feels the need to cheat.

Be honest with the s/o and and if one cannot work it out, then one needs to not be with that s/o. In the long term, it is the best way to go.

[goldenfinger]

hmm
This is interesting. You admit that you have set this up to attack in particular bisexuals who are not able to have an open relationship due to their partner not being willing or open to their bisexuality.

This is not a very positive nor supportive approach for bisexuals to discuss our issues in my opinion. You merely want to attack bisexuals who are not able to live up to your expectations and moral values.

Let me be the first to flame you. Bless your heart...and I write this with all the love that you deserve...Fuck off. :)

Where is the word "bisexual" in the post??

Anyway, talking about flogging a dead horse.:eek:

[tenni]

What is really wrong are all the men on this site who suck dick and all the women who eat pussy. Now that is just wrong...lol It much worse than a hetero man cheating with a woman. It is cheating on god and what he put you here on this earth to do. Make babies and only have sex when you are working on having a baby. (written in white and black moral speak ;)

[Jackal]

hmm
This is interesting. You admit that you have set this up to attack in particular bisexuals who are not able to have an open relationship due to their partner not being willing or open to their bisexuality.

This is not a very positive nor supportive approach for bisexuals to discuss our issues in my opinion. You merely want to attack bisexuals who are not able to live up to your expectations and moral values.

Let me be the first to flame you. Bless your heart...and I write this with all the love that you deserve...Fuck off. :)

Um, what? They didn't say anything about it being 'bi-specific'. A spouse or partner not wanting to be in a non-monogamous relationship has nothing to do with not accepting bisexuality and everything to do with not willing to have their partner sleep with other people. Being bi doesn't give you the right to a non-monogamous relationship. Was the OP edited? Sorry if this was sarcasm and I missed it but I don't think it is.


To me, discrete is when you do not want the outside world to know and cheat is when you don't want your s/o to know.

The former is not bad, but the latter is bad. There are plenty of Bi couples, straight couples and mixed orientation couples out there that are discrete, but it does not mean that there is cheating going on. In our case, we both try to meet any of the guys that we are interested in, together. It does not always work out that way (when the wife is tired or ill), so the wife sends me off to do the meet and I return and report to her what my feelings are about the guy.

That is not cheating, but it is discrete.

Like I said, if the s/o does not know and is kept in the dark about anything even happening (like lying about it), then that is definitely cheating.

I'd say that being discrete means that you don't advertise or talk about your sexuality in open company. Someone discrete may or may not lie if asked directly. I think it involves not telling certain people in your life for one reason or another. A discrete person (as opposed to closeted) could be someone who is comfortable with their sexuality, but not with their personal affairs being widely known. Just my :2cents:

Cheating is doing something sexual without a partner's knowledge or consent. It involves lying, either by saying things that aren't true or not telling them what you're up to.

[NEPHX]

I agree with the posters that mention the difference between someone keeping their personal business discreet vs. married person cheating on their mate/spouse/lover/whatever....

One can be discreet and not be a cheater

One can be discreet and certainly be a cheating on someone.

and, I guess

One can cheat on their mate and NOT discreet about it.

On a side note, I just glad that at least the initial poster, Jackal, spelled the word discreet correctly. The rest, well, its certainly a mixed bag :eek:

For all those that would like to be discrete, unless you're planning on becoming a number anytime soon... or something consisting of separate parts, you really can't be DISCRETE!

Hmmm.. I wonder if a number could be discreetly discrete?

dis·creet (dĭ-skrēt')
adj.
Marked by, exercising, or showing prudence and wise self-restraint in speech and behavior; circumspect.
Free from ostentation or pretension; modest.

dis·crete (dĭ-skrēt')
adj.
Constituting a separate thing. See synonyms at distinct.
Consisting of unconnected distinct parts.
Mathematics. Defined for a finite or countable set of values; not continuous.

[RobUK]

Just adding my 2 cents worth....

(No, I'm not in a relationship, so don't think I'm trying to justify actions that I feel guilty about...)

I've read a few times in this thread the words "causing emotional distress on the partner" (or words to that effect - feel free to use your own synonyms). People say that messing around with other people behind your s/o's back = cheating, and will lead to emotional harm to your s/o.

People are saying that you should be honest and open about things with your s/o, but some people do not have that option - they know their s/o will not accept it.

So, the question I'm throwing out there is, does it cause more emotional trauma on the s/o if they break up completely? Is it not, then, better for both partners' emotional well-being if one of them is enjoying some discreet fun on the side?

Some people's partners will not accept any bisexual leanings of anyone. Yet, you cannot just say "well, they were not a good match in the first place". You love who you love. Even if he/she is closed-minded about some things...
:2cents:

[TwylaTwobits]

Just adding my 2 cents worth....

(No, I'm not in a relationship, so don't think I'm trying to justify actions that I feel guilty about...)

I've read a few times in this thread the words "causing emotional distress on the partner" (or words to that effect - feel free to use your own synonyms). People say that messing around with other people behind your s/o's back = cheating, and will lead to emotional harm to your s/o.

People are saying that you should be honest and open about things with your s/o, but some people do not have that option - they know their s/o will not accept it.

So, the question I'm throwing out there is, does it cause more emotional trauma on the s/o if they break up completely? Is it not, then, better for both partners' emotional well-being if one of them is enjoying some discreet fun on the side?

Some people's partners will not accept any bisexual leanings of anyone. Yet, you cannot just say "well, they were not a good match in the first place". You love who you love. Even if he/she is closed-minded about some things...
:2cents:

I agree with you love who you love. But if you love someone who doesn't want to share you then you need to decide if you love them enough to respect them and stay faithful. It would be the same if two men were married and one said I want to go sleep with a woman. Do you not think the male partner would feel that he wasn't good enough? That he wasn't enough? It's time to realize you can be bisexual and not act on feelings, it's not all about sex.

[goldenfinger]

Cheating is a package of many things, not just sexual. If my partner cheat with money, she is cheating me, and can not claim the high moral ground.If I drink too much and rub her of a stable life, I'm cheating her and can't claim the high moral ground. So to the people here who take the high moral ground, make sure you have a clean record.
I can't claim the high moral ground, can you???:eek:

[mikey3000]

Sorry, but did you say logical? Wouldn't that include gray areas as well? Not everything is so black and white. There are many different types of relationships.

So are you saying that, if a mutual understanding cannot be worked out, it would be best to leave your elderly, frigid spouse alone and lonely, and quite possibly economically destitute cause she doesn't want to have sex anymore? Never mind that both still have affection for one another and enjoy eachother's company, no sex at all is grounds for separation?

Remember people, EVERYTHING is justifiable, even murder. Look it up.




Good question.

Let's address that in a logical and reasonable manner, then. Shall we?

Either you have to be honest with your spouse and communicate or leave the relationship.

Trying to justify cheating is a pretty lame thing to do to someone who is not cheating on you.
And, in a case of cheating on someone because they are cheating, or one thinks that they are cheating on one, does not make it better. It loses the moral high ground.

If you one thinks that one has to cheat, because of an inability to be honest with their s/o then the problem is not the relationship. It is the person who feels the need to cheat.

Be honest with the s/o and and if one cannot work it out, then one needs to not be with that s/o. In the long term, it is the best way to go.

[FalconAngel]

I'd say that being discrete means that you don't advertise or talk about your sexuality in open company. Someone discrete may or may not lie if asked directly. I think it involves not telling certain people in your life for one reason or another. A discrete person (as opposed to closeted) could be someone who is comfortable with their sexuality, but not with their personal affairs being widely known. Just my :2cents:

Cheating is doing something sexual without a partner's knowledge or consent. It involves lying, either by saying things that aren't true or not telling them what you're up to.

Exactly.

Our sexuality and activities are no one's business outside of those within the circle of people that we wish to allow that intimate knowledge to be known.

That is being discrete.

My wife knows about my sexuality and we have a plan all worked out about it. Now if something changes between us as far as sexual desires, then we can sit down and discuss the issue and work something out. This prevents cheating.

[Coastocoast]

I have always insisted when looking for a guy that they are discrete because I do not want the world I do business in to know that I am bisexual. I would describe this as discrete but I am not willing to be a cheat or be with anyone who is. I always insist when I look for any person of either gender that the person has no body else they are married to, living with or seeing in any way on any level. I will mention that this belief has often kept me alone for longer than I wanted to be but so be it.

[innaminka]

For me, being discreet meant I operated withing the rules my husband and I had set when I revealed my bi-sexuality.
After a lot of negotiation, compromise and heart-searching, it operated along the lines of "don't ask, don't tell."

Cheating was when (I admit I did) operate outside the rules. He had no idea, but I had to shoulder the guilt.

Cheating is cheating - its not nice: its an emotional cancer in the long run.

[FalconAngel]

Sorry, but did you say logical? Wouldn't that include gray areas as well? Not everything is so black and white. There are many different types of relationships.

There is always one that thinks the rules of common decency and respect do not apply to them, because it interferes with their selfish desires. My son's mother is one of them; Lie, cheat, steal; do whatever it takes to get what you want. Eventually, it comes back to bite you in the ass. Like she eventually found out.

Yes, there are different types of relationships, but this is not the movies or TV dramas. This is the real world, in which there are no scriptwriters that suddenly make everything okay.

Simple rule; if your s/o does not know of and approve/give the go ahead, then it is cheating.

It is that black and white. There is no gray area in that. And no excuse for cheating.



So are you saying that, if a mutual understanding cannot be worked out, it would be best to leave your elderly, frigid spouse alone and lonely, and quite possibly economically destitute cause she doesn't want to have sex anymore? Never mind that both still have affection for one another and enjoy each other's company, no sex at all is grounds for separation?


Well, if the relationship is not working and the love is gone (indicated by the intent to cheat), then the only realistic option is to go your separate ways.

I never said that there were no repercussions, but if you have to be the "bad guy", by leaving the relationship, to find your happiness, at least you are not the "dirt-bag" cheater who screwed around on his spouse.



Remember people, EVERYTHING is justifiable, even murder. Look it up.

Maybe in your dictionary, but not amongst society, as a whole. There are a lot of murderers on death row that would argue your point as well.

And before you use war as a justification, think again, since that is a whole different thing from cheating on your spouse.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I agree that the 'discrete' definition given by many on here is the ideal.

But when a person's ad says they need to be discrete, that's code for "I don't want my wife to find out.' We all know that's what is meant.

Cheat. Discrete. Name games don't change the issues.

Pasa

[mikey3000]

Well, if the relationship is not working and the love is gone (indicated by the intent to cheat), then the only realistic option is to go your separate ways...


...Maybe in your dictionary, but not amongst society, as a whole. There are a lot of murderers on death row that would argue your point as well.

And before you use war as a justification, think again, since that is a whole different thing from cheating on your spouse.

Who said the love was gone? There are many aspects to a relationship, sex being just one. Should 100% of all relationships be based on sex alone and not include friendship or affection? And that sex should just be with the one you love? If so, they why do YOU have sex with others (consentual or not)? As you state, you and your spouse do have sex with others. Why? Are you two in a loving, comitted relationship with everyone you two sleep with? Many people feel that even consent from your spouse does not give you the right to sleep around. Your open lifestyle can easily be judged by others too, and actually is.

And for the record:

justifiable homicide n. a killing without evil or criminal intent, for which there can be no blame, such as self-defense to protect oneself or to protect another, or the shooting by a law enforcement officer in fulfilling his/her duties. This is not to be confused with a crime of passion or claim of diminished capacity which refer to defenses aimed at reducing the penalty or degree of crime. (See: homicide, self-defense)

There's my dictionary. Pretty standard. LOys of people who have killed are walking around free too. Justifiable homicide.

[FalconAngel]

Who said the love was gone? There are many aspects to a relationship, sex being just one. Should 100% of all relationships be based on sex alone and not include friendship or affection? And that sex should just be with the one you love? If so, they why do YOU have sex with others (consentual or not)? As you state, you and your spouse do have sex with others. Why? Are you two in a loving, comitted relationship with everyone you two sleep with?

Ahh, here we go. First of all, supporting the dishonest act of cheating automatically lost you the high ground in this argument. A relationship that is not honest is not a relationship, so by saying that you feel the need to cheat says, quite factually, that you do not have a real relationship.

a relationship without honesty and integrity is no relationship at all. You argument FOR cheating is all backwards. Sex outside of the relationship is cheating as long as your partner knows nothing about it and it would cause them hurt, or anger towards you, if they found out about it.



Many people feel that even consent from your spouse does not give you the right to sleep around. Your open lifestyle can easily be judged by others too, and actually is.

What others are judging our relationship? You?
You are not in a position to judge, since all of your words seem to say that you do not have an open and honest relationship with your s/o and hide your actions from them for fear of repercussion from them.


And for the record:

justifiable homicide n. a killing without evil or criminal intent, for which there can be no blame, such as self-defense to protect oneself or to protect another, or the shooting by a law enforcement officer in fulfilling his/her duties. This is not to be confused with a crime of passion or claim of diminished capacity which refer to defenses aimed at reducing the penalty or degree of crime. (See: homicide, self-defense)

There's my dictionary. Pretty standard. LOys of people who have killed are walking around free too. Justifiable homicide.

Okay, the "justifiable homicide" argument. Since we are not talking the law, your argument is way out of context. And just to address that, argument, in case you want to drag that out, people who have committed "justifiable homicide" have to live with that stain on their heart, mind and soul for the rest of their lives. Unless one has no conscience whatsoever, that has it's own punishment.

Your argument has no real bearing in this context. Epic fail, but nice try, anyway.

[Annika L]

To cheat is to inflict emotional harm by not being truthful to your partner. To be discreet one has to be aware of the emotions of all involved. When my husband and I find someone who is right for our relationship we will be discreet due to my job. If one of us goes out every night and is having sex with whom ever we can find, that is a cheat. A cheat does not care about others feelings, someone who is discreet does.

Your notion of discretion certainly sounds right, but your definition of cheating sounds suspiciously like it implies "it's not cheating if you don't get caught".

If you sneak extra aces into your hand (to better your hand) while playing poker, it is cheating, regardless of whether emotional harm is inflicted and regardless of whether you get caught. In fact, some would say that not getting caught is simply "cheating well" as opposed to "cheating poorly". Any cheater who actually gives a rat's ass about getting caught is discreet!

Cheating is simply trying to get away with breaking the rules. As Mikey points out, there are times when that is more or less justified, but it's still cheating, and could almost always be handled differently.

And NEPHX...bless you for pointing out the difference between discretion and discreteness.

[mikey3000]

Ahh, here we go. First of all, supporting the dishonest act of cheating automatically lost you the high ground in this argument. A relationship that is not honest is not a relationship, so by saying that you feel the need to cheat says, quite factually, that you do not have a real relationship.

a relationship without honesty and integrity is no relationship at all. You argument FOR cheating is all backwards. Sex outside of the relationship is cheating as long as your partner knows nothing about it and it would cause them hurt, or anger towards you, if they found out about it.




What others are judging our relationship? You?
You are not in a position to judge, since all of your words seem to say that you do not have an open and honest relationship with your s/o and hide your actions from them for fear of repercussion from them.



Okay, the "justifiable homicide" argument. Since we are not talking the law, your argument is way out of context. And just to address that, argument, in case you want to drag that out, people who have committed "justifiable homicide" have to live with that stain on their heart, mind and soul for the rest of their lives. Unless one has no conscience whatsoever, that has it's own punishment.

Your argument has no real bearing in this context. Epic fail, but nice try, anyway.
LOL!! Dude, you didn't answer any of my points at all, you just deflected and declared an epic fail.

Where did I say I support the act of cheating? Again you twist the words to your liking. I support a person's right to do what they feel is necessary, given their circumstance, THEIR CHOICE, get it? I have no arguement for cheating. I agrue for freedom of choice.

And no, I'm not judging your relationship, as I'm in a very similar situation. Been with my wife for 23 years now and with my male half for just over a year now. I've mentioned it all over the place here. The point is that WE as people in open relationships are judged by main stream society every day, like it or not. But you are right on one point, I'm not in a position to judge others, so I don't. You, on the other hand, do at every chance you get. See the difference?

So you don't like my definition of justifiable because we aren't talking about murder? Not talking about the law you say? Well what is the #1 reason people get divorced (another legal action)? Infidelity (or, if you like, cheating). And a legal defence (justification) to infidelity is frigidity.

When one person in a marriage rejects all sexual advances from their spouse for an extended period of time, or is declared frigid (yes, a medical term) by a medical professional, then that person has no right to petition for divorce on the grounds on infidelity if they catch their spouse cheating. The act of marriage is contract between the two implying a sexual relationship, and if one breaks that contract the agreement is considered voidable (divorce or annulment). That, my good friend ,is called justification. Very appropriate in this context.

So my position isn't a fail. Cheating is happening all over the place, even on this site. Just peruse the public profiles and see all the requests for "discretion". You and I are in the minority. We are lucky and should be very thankful. I am, and want to help others find their way and hopefully come out to their spouses honestly, but within their own time frame. I don't cast stones at them for not being just like me.

[wildwestgoob]

hmm
This is interesting. You admit that you have set this up to attack in particular bisexuals who are not able to have an open relationship due to their partner not being willing or open to their bisexuality.

This is not a very positive nor supportive approach for bisexuals to discuss our issues in my opinion. You merely want to attack bisexuals who are not able to live up to your expectations and moral values.

Let me be the first to flame you. Bless your heart...and I write this with all the love that you deserve...Fuck off. :)

I have to agree with Tenni.
It's not nice to go and poke sticks in a hornets nest just for shits and giggles.
I hope you get stung.

[Long Duck Dong]

I have always believed that the marriage vows refer to for better or for worse, in sickness and in health......

now maybe I am a lil confused here, but as I have said in other threads, it appears that the * for worse* part doesn't cover monogamy or lack of sex in the relationship

it does appear to me that marriage is now a case of I love my partner but I have rights that supersede any obligations to my partner where sex is concerned.....

now I am aware that there are people that feel the need to be discreet, by reason of risk of loss of housing, employment etc.... things that are valid concerns, and inside that aspect may be concern that telling their partner may result in the person being *outted * anyway..

cheaters I view as people that are sexually motivated, they will justify their actions by any means possible and at the end of the day, they do not care about others opinions, only that their sexual desires are furfilled....
there is a minority group of cheaters that are not solely sexually motivated, they have ended up in a situation that was not sexually motivated but has become that anyway.......

personally myself, cheating is something that I could not do, its not in my nature, yet I respect the fact that others with their different views of cheating, may regard things like writing erotic stories for others pleasure, to be a form of verbal / written cheating and betrayal.....

there is also the aspect that some people are simply not suited to one on one monogamous relationships / marriage, yet marry anyway..... they often become the people with 3-4 divorces or people that are more prone to cheat in a marriage, not for the sake of sex, but as a way of coping in a marriage that can feel like a prison of sorts

[JP1986UM]

The verbal gymnastics in this thread are quite amusing.

Being out of the closet I take a rather stern view of cheating. I had to face myself and be honest with me long before I was able to disclose to my wonderful spouse. I have a great marriage now, one that far supercedes my prior fake heterosexual one. I have found that honesty made my marriage much stronger.

When a spouse holds out or loses interest, there is still a rule of fidelity. Taking the good with the bad. Can't put that out of context. Sex is not a given, its a privilege. There should be reasonable expectations and if the spouse cannot meet them, then a voidance of the marriage is in order and you can go about your merry way fucking whomever and whenever you want. Unless that spouse consents to that behavior, which does affect her or him, then sorry, there is no hall pass for cheating in a marriage unless the spouse explicitly consents to said behavior.

That said, even my own open marriage situation comes with rules and regulations. No Craigslist hookups, no quickies in bookstores, no random this or that....that's what we agreed to and what I must abide by.

[lv69cpl69]

To me, discrete is when you do not want the outside world to know and cheat is when you don't want your s/o to know.

The former is not bad, but the latter is bad. There are plenty of Bi couples, straight couples and mixed orientation couples out there that are discrete, but it does not mean that there is cheating going on. In our case, we both try to meet any of the guys that we are interested in, together. It does not always work out that way (when the wife is tired or ill), so the wife sends me off to do the meet and I return and report to her what my feelings are about the guy.

That is not cheating, but it is discrete.

Like I said, if the s/o does not know and is kept in the dark about anything even happening (like lying about it), then that is definitely cheating.

bingo!

[DC_looking]

It must be wonderful to live in a world where everything is either black or white. I've never encountered so much sanctimonious moralizing outside of a Jerry Falwell broadcast.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I know, right? How dare anyone call a spade a spade.

Pasa

[FalconAngel]

LOL!! Dude, you didn't answer any of my points at all, you just deflected and declared an epic fail.

I did, but you choose to not pay attention and call it "not answering your points"

There is NO EXCUSE FOR CHEATING. What part of that are you incapable of understanding?


Where did I say I support the act of cheating?

In every post that you try to "justify" cheating.

I have seen your posts on this subject in other threads. NOT EVEN ONCE have you ever suggested remaining faithful or being honest with people's spouses.

One has to wonder where your moral compass is pointing; particularly since you are listed in your profile as married.
Does your wife know that you imply to others that cheating is a better option than honesty?
How does she feel about that stance?



Again you twist the words to your liking. I support a person's right to do what they feel is necessary, given their circumstance,.......

Necessary? The only thing that sex is "necessary" for is procreation. Sex is fun and a healthy activity, but it is not necessary for feeling good about one's self. It helps but is not necessary.



.......THEIR CHOICE, get it? I have no arguement for cheating. I agrue for freedom of choice.

Aaaah, the "freedom of choice" argument.

What about the promises made to your spouse when you married her? You took those vows together.
Did you not understand them? You CHOSE to take those vows, as did every other married person here, and all of the implications therein.
You, for all intents and purposes, "signed a document", before whatever deity that you believe in, that you would abide by those vows. SO when you violate those vows, what does that make you?

Did you not know that your word should be enough in a relationship and you actions should comply with that word?
Are you even remotely aware of the damage that is done when cheating enters the picture?
If you are aware, then, in order to support your "freedom to choose to cheat" agenda, why do you not explain the pitfalls of cheating?
Do you think that cheaters don't get caught? Well, they do get caught; all of the time. And it often does irreparable damage to a relationship.
Your "freedom of choice" did not, apparently take that into consideration, now. Did it?

You "freedom of choice" COMPLETELY IGNORES THE REPERCUSSIONS OF YOUR ACTIONS.
Your post on another, new, thread clearly shows that you do not consider the ramifications of cheating, or did you expect the rest of us to come to your intellectual rescue when you failed to mention those ramifications?

Freedom of choice has the moral mandate to be as informed as possible of all of the options: The good and the bad of whatever one is making a choice on.
Had you posted the bad along with the rest of your drivel, you would have been informing others of the truth of that choice.

You chose to not do that, presuming that the other person would already know that. You forget that people, being people, do not always think about the bad that can happen.

If you truly did not support cheating, in and of itself, then you would have taken the step necessary to remind people of the ramifications, both long and short term, of those actions.

As my ex found out, the lies fall apart on you pretty quickly and that breeds suspicion, which destroys a marriage.



And no, I'm not judging your relationship, as I'm in a very similar situation. Been with my wife for 23 years now and with my male half for just over a year now.

Actually, your implication was that you did. Neither of us cheat. We have a very clear set of rules in that aspect and neither of us needs to lie about what we do. My wife knew that I was Bi long before we got married (11years together, 9 years married and still going strong) and we worked things out long before we said our vows.

Now the big question:

Does your wife know about your male lover?

If she does, then does she know that he's your lover or does she think that you are actually straight and he's just a "drinking buddy" or some other such thing?

If she does not, then it will without question, be that un-disarmable bomb that blows up in your face. Maybe not today; maybe not this week, but it will blow up on you and you will be an even worse bad guy for the deception.



I've mentioned it all over the place here. The point is that WE as people in open relationships are judged by main stream society every day, like it or not. But you are right on one point, I'm not in a position to judge others, so I don't. You, on the other hand, do at every chance you get. See the difference?

Now you are switching to the mainstream society argument. That has to do with being discrete and does nothing to address the cheating issue.

We have already addressed "discretion". so this is just an attempt to sidetrack the argument away from your support of the cheating issue.

I know what right and wrong are. Not so sure about you, though, at this point.

Do we both agree that Lying to your spouse about your relationship (in and outside of marriage) and anything that can directly affect it is wrong (not including surprise gifts and good things)?

Do we both agree that cheating is wrong?

Do we both agree that to cheat we have to eventually lie to continue doing so?

If the answers to those questions are all yes, then we are on the same page. But I do not believe that you can support your argument for the "choice" to break your marriage vows and cheat, unless you answer "no" to those questions.

You will, likely not answer them at all, "choosing" to ignore them, instead.



So you don't like my definition of justifiable because we aren't talking about murder? Not talking about the law you say? Well what is the #1 reason people get divorced (another legal action)?

Cheating (legal term is infidelity), usually, at least here in the US.


Infidelity (or, if you like, cheating). And a legal defense (justification) to infidelity is frigidity.

Which statute would that be in?

And, since you are in Canada (according to your profile) I cannot comment on Canadian law without seeing the statute, but here in the US, cheating for any "reason" is justifiable grounds for divorce and in many states, the cheater gets slammed hard by the courts.

Frigidity is also weak, but justifiable, grounds for a divorce (don't recall the legal term, off hand right now) in which things come out a bit more evenly.



When one person in a marriage rejects all sexual advances from their spouse for an extended period of time, or is declared frigid (yes, a medical term) by a medical professional, then that person has no right to petition for divorce on the grounds on infidelity........

Again, Canadian law, not US law. If you are going to discuss how the law pertains to this issue, then compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

Canadian divorce law does not apply outside of Canada, so legally, that argument is a moot point, as it may not be applied to anyone outside of Canada.

But if you insist on going there, then I am willing to do so.

But more importantly, if, as you say, frigidity is grounds for divorce in Canada, then why not just do that?
It has to be a lot easier then getting had for cheating which, by your own words, is also grounds for divorce. And divorce on the grounds of a lack of sexual interest by your partner has to be less messy than getting caught cheating.


[/QUOTE]if they catch their spouse cheating. The act of marriage is contract between the two implying a sexual relationship, and if one breaks that contract the agreement is considered voidable (divorce or annulment). That, my good friend ,is called justification. Very appropriate in this context.[/QUOTE]

Again, only in Canada. Cheating is considered grounds for a divorce in the US, but Frigidity is not; HOWEVER, if a spouse refuses to have consensual sex with their partner that CAN be grounds for an annulment, if there were no children produced in the marriage. Even in the US.

It still does not justify cheating; Annulment or divorce, yes, but not cheating.



So my position isn't a fail. Cheating is happening all over the place, even on this site.

And that makes it right?

To quote my parents: "if all of your friends decided to jump into Lake Michigan in the middle of winter, does that mean that you have to?

You are right though. The other post wasn't an epic fail.......THAT ARGUMENT was the real epic fail.
The very immature "but everyone else is doing it" argument.


Just peruse the public profiles and see all the requests for "discretion". You and I are in the minority.

I know, from more than a few threads like this, that I am not in the minority. I think about how my advice affects those that I give it to. So I always discourage cheating because ending a disfunctional relationship is better than staying in it and getting caught in the lies of cheating. I recommend other, less risky options than cheating.

Starting with honesty. If you cannot be honest with your spouse, then who can you be honest with?


[/QUOTE]We are lucky and should be very thankful. I am, and want to help others find their way and hopefully come out to their spouses honestly, but within their own time frame. I don't cast stones at them for not being just like me.[/QUOTE]

I am very thankful, but instead of recommending the riskiest choice, I suggest other options that can either save the marriage or end it with the least long term pain possible.

You do not even suggest that as an option.

Maybe you have never been cheated on, but many people, myself included, have. And yes, that has changed our views of this issue. We have been through it and DO NOT recommend it to anyone. It destroys trust, not just between the partners involved, but future involvements as well
Many of us have been in that "battlefield" and do not want others to go there, while you have sat back and encouraged others to do so, telling them why they should without even one single reason why they should not.
That is not giving them a choice.....it is giving them an uninformed choice and is not very honest.

[mikey3000]

Falcon, the length and passion of your post impressed me. Obviously I've hit a very tender nerve for you, so I'm sorry that you were obviously so hurt in the past. Now I understand your position totally.

Let me clarify one thing though. I am out to my wife, she actually picked my b/f for me, met him and talks with him all the time. They have a great respect for each other. I thought you would have picked up on that when I mentioned open relationships, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. My bad.

So now back to you, cause really, it's all about you, isn't it. Sure, no sex necessary except for procreation. There are absolutely no other health benefits, either physical, mental or emotional. None at all. ( http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/10-surprising-health-benefits-of-sex ) . My mistake. But actually don't need to have sex to procreate anymore either ( http://www.emedicinehealth.com/in_vitro_fertilization/article_em.htm) so really there is no biological need for sex at all right? Right. Again, my bad. Good thing you don't have to look outside your marriage for sex, eh?

And there absolutely is no excuse for having extramarital sex without your spouses prior consent, ever. Doesn't matter if your spouse denies you sex and you still want it, or even if they become medically incapable of having sex, best to divorce them and move on (http://www.dadsnow.org/studies/heritage1.htm). Who cares if you still love them. It's so wrong. Divorce them. Isn't that what you believe? "...For however long it lasts", right? The sexually active person does not have any rights as a human being anymore. I have to suggest that idea to my 42 y/o friend whose wife suffered a massive stroke several years ago and can't even feed herself, let alone give consent to play. Yes, leave her.

I didn't have to suggest any negative aspects of infidelity, since he's an adult, I assume he is well aware of them. Besides I knew you would write volumes on it, and I was right.

So, in conclusion, I give in. You are right, right, right. Because of your past experience,your morals fit everyone else and no one has the right to think for themselves, to choose their own situation cause you were once cheated on and know better than every one else. You are judge and jury for every person on the planet. So sorry. I was wrong, wrong wrong. Judge all you want. You are always right.

End of very tiring and annoying discussion.

And for the record, I have received several PMs from others sighting your sanctimonious attitude, and I must agree, it is so fucking annoying, so dude claim your victory.

[FalconAngel]

Falcon, the length and passion of your post impressed me. Obviously I've hit a very tender nerve for you, so I'm sorry that you were obviously so hurt in the past. Now I understand your position totally.

Well, I am not the only one to go through it and that should take precedence when recommending things like that. Look at it from the other side and ask yourself if you would want to be the victim of that kind of deception. Those are repercussions.


Let me clarify one thing though. I am out to my wife, she actually picked my b/f for me, met him and talks with him all the time.

And that is good. What I find confusing is why you would suggest what you have when that is not the relationship that you have?


They have a great respect for each other. I thought you would have picked up on that when I mentioned open relationships, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. My bad.

But an open relationship has no secrets. They are honest about the things going on with both of them. That is not cheating.


So now back to you, cause really, it's all about you, isn't it.

No, but it is all about having an honest relationship. Something that I am very passionate about.



Sure, no sex necessary except for procreation. There are absolutely no other health benefits, either physical, mental or emotional. None at all. ( http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/10-surprising-health-benefits-of-sex ) . My mistake. But actually don't need to have sex to procreate anymore either ( http://www.emedicinehealth.com/in_vitro_fertilization/article_em.htm) so really there is no biological need for sex at all right? Right. Again, my bad. Good thing you don't have to look outside your marriage for sex, eh?

Health benefits is a straw man argument. I have never argued against ththe health benefits of sex. But you said "necessary", which does not apply to what you are saying about the health benefits or about the "necessity" to cheat. the health benefits, while good are still not a necessity.
There is a difference between necessity and just being a good alternative for additional health benefits. Perhaps some study into the difference is in order for you.

And, actually, it's a good thing that you don't know how to make a point that can stick. This would be a lot tougher to do if you were a decent debator.


And there absolutely is no excuse for having extramarital sex without your spouses prior consent, ever. Doesn't matter if your spouse denies you sex and you still want it, or even if they become medically incapable of having sex, best to divorce them and move on (http://www.dadsnow.org/studies/heritage1.htm). Who cares if you still love them. It's so wrong. Divorce them. Isn't that what you believe? "...For however long it lasts", right? The sexually active person does not have any rights as a human being anymore. I have to suggest that idea to my 42 y/o friend whose wife suffered a massive stroke several years ago and can't even feed herself, let alone give consent to play. Yes, leave her.

And cheating on them is less selfish, how, exactly?




I didn't have to suggest any negative aspects of infidelity, since he's an adult, I assume he is well aware of them. Besides I knew you would write volumes on it, and I was right.

But you have underestimated the power of human stupidity.

Most people, when it comes to reasons that they want something (if they want it badly enough), take the real time and effort to consider what will happen as a repercussion of doing something when they feel that it does not affect others. People need reminding because of the simple fact that, even adults, need to be jogged into thinking before acting.

So you presume that everyone thinks about those repercussions of cheating when, in fact, most guys that cheat do not think about the repercussions of cheating.


So, in conclusion, I give in.

And you should. You are not a good debator.



You are right, right, right. Because of your past experience,your morals fit everyone else and no one has the right to think for themselves, to choose their own situation cause you were once cheated on and know better than every one else.

Well, My morals fit in with honest people. I expect people to choose what is right and what will not do harm to their partners. If someone wants to cheat after learning ALL of the facts and pitfalls of cheating, then I have done what I can to inform them of the pitfalls and repercussions of their actions.
After all of that, if they choose to cheat, knowing all of that, the responsibility is theirs. I have done what I can to help prevent them from ruining 2 lives (maybe more, if they have kids to consider in the family).



You are judge and jury for every person on the planet. So sorry. I was wrong, wrong wrong. Judge all you want. You are always right.

Yes, I do judge people based on both their words and actions. Your words said one thing and you claim that your actions are different. But is it true or, like cheaters, are you lying about that.

The words of an honest man match his actions and claims. You have too many inconsistencies in that area.


End of very tiring and annoying discussion.

Of course it's tiring it is hard work to support an opinion that is both dishonest and known to be morally wrong.


And for the record, I have received several PMs from others sighting your sanctimonious attitude, and I must agree, it is so fucking annoying, so dude claim your victory.

And I know exactly which 3 or 4 people that they are. They are the same ones that have already done what you have just failed to do......defend an indefensible position. One in particular has been called out on his inconsistencies repeatedly by me and others.

You should choose your friends a bit more wisely......just a suggestion, since most people are often judged by the company that they keep.

[tenni]

Falcon
Judge not least you be judged.

You seem to be a sad wounded soul who is very intolerantly judgmental of those that do not conform to your rigid beliefs and moral perspective. Your lack of tolerance and rationalizations puts you in the same extremist radical camp as those who would stone and kill you for your evil lifestyle if they could get away with it. Do not ever think that there are not other rigid moralists who condemn you as you condemn others. They have it all figured out too.

[Long Duck Dong]

The sexually active person does not have any rights as a human being anymore. I have to suggest that idea to my 42 y/o friend whose wife suffered a massive stroke several years ago and can't even feed herself, let alone give consent to play. Yes, leave her.


that rises a interesting point, mikey.... and thats a grey area in my eyes.... the person is not able to consent to sex or to extra marital playing.....
so communication is not really a option there.....

its one of the very few areas that I do allow for a weakening of my opinions about cheating as its not a situation that can be dealt with on a equal terms level between two people and that is a key point of a lot of my stance on cheating.....

I endorse the right to make a informed choice by both partners, and in the case you share, thats not a option...... so in that case, I would put aside my judgment of cheaters and cheating, and say, may they both be at peace with whatever happens.... as its possible the wife may never know or if told, even understand that the husband has taken a lover for sexual, emotional etc support.....

yes, I concede that its a clear grey area....

btw, sorry for not PM'ing you about falcon..... I just hate PM'ing people...... besides, the * holy crusader * appears to be gaining his own anti fan club anyway :tong:

[mikey3000]

Thanks Duckie

My whole point in that is certain situations, there are grey areas. As for my friend, yes his family and his wife's family know he has a special friend, and we all support him. He is a wonderful husband and will take care of his wife for as long as he can, he loves her very much. He is Superman.

Abd I knew I was dealing with someone who is very irrational as soon as he said, "the health benefits, while good are still not a necessity." :eek:

But all he can do is try to attack my debating skills? LOL!!! There is no rational debating with an illogical person. I just let him spew and others will judge him too, just like he has the need to judge other adults. And it worked.

Mission accomplished.

[DC_looking]

Good lord. What a bunch of long winded blowhards. Enamored with the keen geometric precision of their logic. Go jump in lake Michigan mand end this tedious thread.

[jamieknyc]

What puzzles me about this thread is why everyone seems to think that you are destroying your SO's life by cheating (an arguemtn that does have some basis), but that the same people say "if he/she won't accept you having bisexual experiences, divorce them.' Aren't you f***ing up someone life a lot more by doing that? And why do none of the moralists on here seem to think that it is a bad thing to screw up someone's life by leaving them?

[FalconAngel]

What puzzles me about this thread is why everyone seems to think that you are destroying your SO's life by cheating (an arguemtn that does have some basis), but that the same people say "if he/she won't accept you having bisexual experiences, divorce them.' Aren't you f***ing up someone life a lot more by doing that? And why do none of the moralists on here seem to think that it is a bad thing to screw up someone's life by leaving them?


That is a gray area, Jamie, but the whole thing revolves around honesty. Honesty is the key. If the basis of your relationship with your significant other is based on sex, then why even get married in the first place?

Also important is what would any of us feel if we were being cheated on?

Put yourself in your partner's shoes before you decide to cheat. Cheating is the deepest act of dishonesty and betrayal that anyone could do to their s/o.
it leaves much longer lasting scars than just simply getting divorced.

Cheating has some extremely negative repercussions, particularly against the cheater, both in court, when the cheater's spouse divorces them as well as in the community (if the community is small enough).

If I could not be honest with my spouse about our relationship, then I know that there is a problem with our relationship.

What does not help is why some people who claim that they do not cheat and claim to have never been cheated on, would even recommend cheating in the first place.

It does make one wonder what they are really doing.

And the act of cheating is 100% selfish. If one is selfish, they have a possession, not a relationship. People are not possessions. And a functional relationship is not selfish. It is honest and non-judgemental between all parties involved.

As far as leaving someone, it screws up their life a lot less than cheating on them will. Leaving is not as monumental a betrayal as cheating is. Because leaving them releases them to find the relationship that they want to have; it does not keep them trapped in a destructive relationship that is not working in the first place.

[Pasadenacpl2]

What puzzles me about this thread is why everyone seems to think that you are destroying your SO's life by cheating (an arguemtn that does have some basis), but that the same people say "if he/she won't accept you having bisexual experiences, divorce them.' Aren't you f***ing up someone life a lot more by doing that? And why do none of the moralists on here seem to think that it is a bad thing to screw up someone's life by leaving them?

The honorable thing to do is to tell them, and then allow them the choice. To not allow them the choice is where the actual problem is. They have a right to choose not to be married to some one who is sleeping around, let alone sleeping with same sex partners.

I agree, just up and divorcing them seems worse than cheating. But not being honest is the actual problem. They have the right to know, and to choose. When you take away that right, that is when you've actually caused harm.

Pasa

[FalconAngel]

Thanks Duckie

My whole point in that is certain situations, there are grey areas. As for my friend, yes his family and his wife's family know he has a special friend, and we all support him. He is a wonderful husband and will take care of his wife for as long as he can, he loves her very much. He is Superman.

Be careful who you choose as friends. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, but Duck will continue to support you as long as you continue to kiss his ass.

And if this is your best effort to justify doing what is wrong, then I have already proven that your skills are lacking, as is your story and excuses.



Abd I knew I was dealing with someone who is very irrational as soon as he said, "the health benefits, while good are still not a necessity." :eek:

Irrational people fall back on what you have done in this post; confuse need with option, not understand that you nation's laws only apply in your nation, make straw man arguments and all of the other things that you use as "excuses", rather than giving realistic reasons that are not selfish and self-centered.

Have you looked up the difference between necessary and beneficial yet?

The two words are not interchangeable.



But all he can do is try to attack my debating skills? LOL!!!

Actually, if you actually read the posts, I called you out on your debating skills after I had proven your points to be wrong and selfish.

You cannot make a point if you cannot defend it properly. And you have failed miserably at defending your selfish and self-serving irresponsible points.

So the whole point of that little diatribe is to embarrass yourself. Good job, by the way.

Every "excuse" that you have come up with to do what you claim that you do not do is lame and weak. And there is a difference between an excuse to do what you know to be wrong and a legitimate reason to do it.

Perhaps you just don't know the difference between an excuse and a reason. Those two words are only periferaly related and almost never interchangeable.

One has to really wonder why you speak out so strongly in support of something that you claim that you do not do it, yourself? If you believe in it so strongly, and you are not lying about not doing it yourself, then why support it at all?

I am not the only one to catch that inconsistency in your argument. What gives you the authority to do something that you, yourself are claiming that you do not do and have implied that you haven't either done or been a victim of:
Unless you, in fact do it and are back-peddaling to cover your tracks. Duck has taught you well, but as you are discovering, the lies can only hold up so long before you get called on them.



There is no rational debating with an illogical person. I just let him spew and others will judge him too, just like he has the need to judge other adults. And it worked.

Mission accomplished.

Actually, the irrational one has been you. Since you were not paying attention to your "spew", as you call it, let us address that.

You have come up with excuses for cheating (not reasons), something that you have claimed that you do not do.

Why? To give "choices"? That is the piss poorest excuse.

I am fairly certain that people can figure out that "choice" (as you put it), without your half-thought help.

Particularly when your "advice" does not include the potential pitfalls. Pitfalls that they may not consider. You do not know these people and, no offense to everyone, but not everyone considers those options when they consider that most abhorrent "choice" of cheating. Maybe they have never considered it at all before.
You do not know. Particularly when they are first timers to this site or their bisexuality. New Bisexuals come here for answers not solutions that create more problems than they solve.

What they need to be reminded of, for reasons given in earlier posts, that there are other, less selfish options and that there are long term negative repercussions when they follow your poorly thought out "advice".

Advice that you, yourself, claim to not even follow.

Why do you not believe in your own advice enough to follow it yourself?

Native Americans have a saying; "Walk your talk." I walk my talk and you do not. It is as simple as that.

If you don't practice what you preach, then what gives you the appropriate level of authority to recommend it to others?

what would that authority be? Do as I say, not as I do? Look up the word "Hypocrite" when you get that new dictionary and take a good long look at yourself.

If you consider me to be irrational for that, then perhaps you need a better dictionary.

[FalconAngel]

The honorable thing to do is to tell them, and then allow them the choice. To not allow them the choice is where the actual problem is. They have a right to choose not to be married to some one who is sleeping around, let alone sleeping with same sex partners.

I agree, just up and divorcing them seems worse than cheating. But not being honest is the actual problem. They have the right to know, and to choose. When you take away that right, that is when you've actually caused harm.

Pasa

Better said than I, Pasa.

[mikey3000]

Good lord. What a bunch of long winded blowhards. Enamored with the keen geometric precision of their logic. Go jump in lake Michigan mand end this tedious thread.

I'm trying, man, he just won't shut the fuck up. I think he's broken.:eek:

[crazy_cat_lady]

seeing this thread from a thrid person point of view really shows how useles it is to debate on these forums. why? because Falcon, Mikey could give a million actual reasons to justify cheating and but you'd say they were "excuses" because it is your personal oppinion. I agree with some of your points don't get me wrong, but I also agree with some of his. Not everyone is you Falcon....not everyone feels that being cheated on is such a horrable life shattering thing, some people can get over it quicker than others. Otherwise how would a marrage survive such a thing?

And you continually think of it from the victims point of view falcon...never the one faced with the choice.

For example my grandmother was married for 20 or 30 years when my grandfather was diagnosed with diabetes and it gave him ED and back the viagra wasn't nearlly as common as today. She was married to him for 20 more years until he died and never cheated on him.

Now you may say Good for her, way to stay faithful! But think of it from her end of the deal. she was in the prime of her life and sex was completely cut off. could you really deal with a sexless marrage for that long, with only your hand to be with? to cuddle up to and be intimate with? could you be reduced to only quick pecks every now and then? and sleeping on opposite sides of the bed?

Could your marrage really stand when one of the support collums has been taken away? I hate people who consider sex just a fun perk that goes along with the relationship. I feel their just as bad as the people who think sex has no meaning and are willing to date someone for just the sex.

Sex is VERY important to a relationship! maybe not "nessacery" as you put it, like my grandmother situation, but still very important.

the whole reason cheating hurts so bad is the exact reason sex is so important. sex creates intimacey which is one of the foundations of love, and to betray that by cheating yes is a horrable thing, but to for a person to live in a closeness, sexless, stale relationship, can be even worse.

[Long Duck Dong]

Be careful who you choose as friends. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, but Duck will continue to support you as long as you continue to kiss his ass.


where am I supporting mikey.... I am actually talking about his friend, and the ethics of that situation as opposed to my stance on cheating..... and the differences.....

if your head was not stuck up your own ass, you would have seen that

[rissababynta]

where am I supporting mikey.... I am actually talking about his friend, and the ethics of that situation as opposed to my stance on cheating..... and the differences.....

if your head was not stuck up your own ass, you would have seen that

Yeah that sort of confused me too...

[TwylaTwobits]

Yeah that sort of confused me too...

me three but then Falcon oh so publicly declared he was putting Duckie on ignore so why would he be saying anything about posts he can't see?

[Pasadenacpl2]

the whole reason cheating hurts so bad is the exact reason sex is so important. sex creates intimacey which is one of the foundations of love, and to betray that by cheating yes is a horrable thing, but to for a person to live in a closeness, sexless, stale relationship, can be even worse.

Go ahead and cheat, then. But give your spouse the courtesy of telling them so they can make an informed decision. It is the right thing to do.

I will never say that sex out of the marriage bed is a bad thing. I will say, however, that sex out of the marriage bed without allowing your spouse the opportunity to decide if they can live with you cheating or not is where the actual betrayal is.

If my spouse had ED, I'd tell them that I was going to go elsewhere to meet my physical intimacy needs. If they wish to stay with me, fantastic. If they want to divorce me, that's their choice. But at least they have the choice.

Pasa

[tenni]

Well, now we are getting to a more clear and important discussion about this situation where one partner, usually a woman, withholds sex from the other partner or can not physically perform sexually. Legally, if one spouse withholds sex what are the consequences for the other spouse? Frequently, in a divorce situation that spouse who withholds sex to the point of the other spouse seeking sex outside the relation wins part of the other spouses share. Children in such marriages are often used as a weapon against the spouse who "cheated" and visitation becomes a nightmare. There are so many injustices that may lead a person not to disclose and when desire/need for same sex is added, there is such resistance to same sex activity that most in society support the partner who is hetero and shows little sympathy for the bisexual.

If the spouse does not acknowledge and accept a need for same sex sexual activity, that spouse may react by withholding sex or ask for a divorce. I can not understand why bisexuals do not begin to support other bisexuals in such situations? Perhaps bisexuals should fight to alter society's understanding and acceptance of bisexual needs? Those that do not acknowledge such needs but perceive them as desire are rigid. There is no coming to agreement with such draconian thinkers. Let's just agree to disagree and not turn this thread into an argument of needs versus desires(happened in the past)..move on.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Lordy Lordy, This stuff again.... It has actually gone off topic to the OP. But none the matter.

Discreet or cheat, what is the difference?

This day and age they have been entangled to mean "Don't let my secret out, but also begs for someone trusting and secretive.

They have become synonymous terms in forums in personal ads all over the web. Discreet is a ribbon and bowed word used to reflect " I'm married or attached and don't want them to find out."


Now mind you, if you use the concrete definitions, they mean nothing alike.

The word cheating causes shame and probably goes against someone's idea of themselves which is why some choose to use Discreet over saying "I'm a married/attached male/female seeking to cheat on my spouse/sig-other for (Enter reason here).

Now, outside of all that, I have always found it curious that those who do cheat, seek trust and disclosure. Same as with those who are knowing participants in the cheating.
That's sort of like Berney Madoff going "yeah I know I did that thing with all those people's money, those who had faith I was doing the right thing and helping them build their lives. But you can trust me with yours.. Honest :)".

Now I don't think cheating is always the wrong thing to do, but I also don't think that if it happened that it would END all relationships, if the other found out about it.. And honestly I think there is a misogynist tone towards female spouses that are left in the dark. Women have been dealing with spouses doing such since biblical days and Most tend to try and stay and work out the issues. Honestly, If your spouse loved you and felt you were worthy of love and Feels that your worth is greater than your flaws, He/she would stay and work it out.

A spouse that can no longer perform to your desired sexual needs, may in themselves feel they no longer provide for you and have their own guilt. I don't think cheating should be the first avenue taken, there are doctors to be seen, counselors that could assist. You have to take the journey before you see cheating as your only option..

Now why am I against cheating in many ways... Well..I became a Dominatrix since I stopped coming to this site. And as part of my training, one of the first things I learned was "What is the difference between a sub and a slave?" The difference is a sub has choice and a slave has none. When there is some sig-other left in the dark, with no choice, then they are forced into slavery. A prisoner in a cell with no visible bars. Now this is my own opinion I have developed. And one of the basis of a D/s relationship is trust and openness. Which is built and nurtured.

Now another reason is, There are those who leave their marriage for the one's that they cheat with. Those relationships rarely survive and usually end the same way they began. And when children are involved it can get confusing and hurtful for the children. Not knowing who's going to potentially be their next step mom/dad.

Maybe its the empathy I have for others that also make me against it. When normal human behavior, especially for a woman is "What did I do wrong, What could I have done differently, I am too fat, too ugly, too unworthy".. Yep the blame game. When a world is ultimately flipped upside down, and what was once safe no longer is, you look inward and break yourself down. Even though its not really all your fault.. Much like a rape victim.

A cheating spouse normally won't ever say " Its not you, its me!" It's most likely "You didn't do this for me, You weren't right for me, I love you, but I am not 'in love' with you anymore."

Most cheaters see the detriment to themselves and the facade they wish to maintain. Then the actual destruction of someone else's spirit. "If my spouse finds out he/she will take me to the cleaners, get half my house and take my kids away". But for the spouse that has been cheated on, they lose the life they worked to build, the years they put in.. Not only losing faith in whom they loved, but faith in any future love prospects and in themselves and in their ability to judge others.

I know I will be attacked by the "Right Fighters". And that's fine. But I have written in the past of how sometimes cheating is right thing to do. As in with the story of my Aunt that died of brain cancer, who months before she died had regressed to that of a 2-3 year old child. My Uncle found comfort in another woman's arms, and I find that was best to do, considering even though legally he still had "marriage rights" with my aunt, having sex with her would have been rape and almost like child rape.

Now, I saw in previous posts about grounds for divorce.. The one that is "Due to not having any sexual relations".. Is called Alienation of Affection. The marriage is no longer being continually consummated.


I agree that sex is a biological need, but one we can control.. similar to that of a diet or exercising. We choose the diet we want or the duration/intensity of the exercise. We as humans develop choice.

Compulsion is something that is not as controllable. Usually due to brain/emotional dysfunction. And in those affected with a compulsion (OCD for example). It doesn't matter what facts or figures that are stated. That person will always rationalize their compulsion to make sense to them.


This will always be a never ending Chicken/egg style argument.

[FalconAngel]

I'm trying, man, he just won't shut the fuck up. I think he's broken.:eek:

Actually...broken is not knowing the difference between right and wrong, I.E. defending wrong and attacking right.

That would actually be you.

Check all of your posts to see the proof of that.

Oh yeah, it turns out that you have been (possibly still are, but trying to cover it up) a cheater.

Here is your admittance of that.

http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137574&postcount=25

Now, we know why you are such a proponent of cheating and it gives us another look into your integrity-free nature.

One would think that you would be smart enough to know better, but you don't.

It is interesting what one finds through a few sources and some research.

It isn't a crime to be wrong, but trying to convince people that wrong is right and not understanding why no one of any integrity supports your position is just stupid.

See, I already know that you post your smart-assed lies and ignorant remarks in the forum because you will get a response.

And I have no tolerance for liars and fools, so yes, I will blast every stupid, amoral ignorant excuse that you come up with for trying to justify doing wrong where right is the better way to go.

If your weak-willed "friends" want to kiss your but and take your side just because they don't like me, I have to wonder just how valid is their support, or your already weak position, when they abandon what they know to be right just to "get back" at someone that they don't like.

That is piss poor support that will turn on you as quickly as they turned to you.

You don't want this to end because it will detract from the tiny little bit of power that you believe that it gives you. You are not a troll, but you sure act like you are not too far from being one.

If you really wanted to respond to the others without a response from me, then you would send a private message.
Now if I am wrong about that, then it just means that you are not bright enough to figure out how to send a private message. But that would be proof that I am right about you in another way, if that were the case.

I have power over you because you know that I am right and you are too weak to admit it, honestly.

If you really want this to end, then you would not be so snarky about me with your responses to others.
You would be man enough to address me directly, but you are not man enough for that, since all of your other attempts were addressed and arguments shot down and you have nothing left but to pursue the identical course that all of your "allies" have done: Your arguments failed, so behaving like a spoiled little child about it is the only choice left to you.

Man up and honestly and sincerely admit the truth. You will be amazed at how cathartic that feels.

But it also requires you to be paying attention and noticing things that others do not, which is why I don't lose when it is a subject that I know and others do not.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Umm...He came clean to his wife, Falcon. That's doing what he should do: admit, and give her the opportunity to either deal with it, or leave.

This shouldn't be a finger-pointing exercise.

Pasa

[FalconAngel]

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

Discrete = not out in the open for all to see. Often applies to alternative lifestyles. Sometimes a betrayal, but not always

Cheat = behind the s/o in such a way as to not let them know what you are doing what you know you should not be doing. A betrayal of your relationship arrangement or marriage vows.

[mikey3000]

I have power over you because you know that I am right and you are too weak to admit it, honestly.

Dude, You're fucking cracked in the head.

Other's realized that I came clean to my wife, why couldn't you? I have threads all over this board on my comming out process in detail. No secrets at all. The guilt from my affair is what prompted me to come out to her and luckily we over came it. It made me a much better person.

If you were smart enough to put two and two together, you'd have figured out that. Maybe that's why I don't condemn and judge others, because I've been there and understand where they're comming from.

Falcon, you have no power over me or anyone else on this board. You don't even have power over your own sensibilities.

I repeat. I think you're broken. No need to pm that.

[TwylaTwobits]

I have power over you because you know that I am right and you are too weak to admit it, honestly.




First let me say I am not saying this to be a bitch, I am just pointing out something that is a universal truth on message board such as these. NO ONE has POWER over ANYONE except Drew and even then he only has the power over the posting ability of that person.

The only thing we can do on this board is either report or ignore that is the only power anyone has.

Now back to the thread that won't end.

[Long Duck Dong]

I know I will be attacked by the "Right Fighters". And that's fine. But I have written in the past of how sometimes cheating is right thing to do. As in with the story of my Aunt that died of brain cancer, who months before she died had regressed to that of a 2-3 year old child. My Uncle found comfort in another woman's arms, and I find that was best to do, considering even though legally he still had "marriage rights" with my aunt, having sex with her would have been rape and almost like child rape.


yes, I agree.... under NZ law, the uncle could have been charged with spousal rape as his wife would have been deemed unable to give consent......
I am not sure how the laws apply in other countries there.....

there is a underlying issue there that mentally, the aunt was not the person who he married, she is wife in body, but her mind is far removed from the state at the point of marriage.....

again it challenges my stance against cheating, as its impossible for the uncle to express to or inform his wife of what is going on.....
that clearly removes the resolution or right of choice for the aunt.....

that leaves me only with the options of being judgmental over his * cheating * and labelling him as a dishonest person etc etc..... OR... accepting of the fact that circumstances had changed on a level that is far beyond normal resolution.....

while it would be easy to walk the moral high way.... and be a opinionated bigot full of my own self importance..... I perfer to be a hypocrite on my own stance against cheating....and accept that while some people may cheat.... there are times when being judgmental serves no purpose at all, and its best for one such as me, to admit that yes I do accept cheating happens and can well be understandable and acceptable.....

takes off my halo..... and joins the rest of the human race.....

[FalconAngel]

Dude, You're fucking cracked in the head.

Problem with that statement is that I did not say that you did lie about that. I posed it as a possibility, an option or "choice" to pick from, based on existing evidence and your statements.
I never said it as a definitive statement.
And you have not really been doing anything to prove that possibility wrong.
And it still remains a possibility as long as you keep up the insulting spew of bullshit and insult.
Like I said before, you behave like the kid who lost a game and wants to blame the other kids for his loss instead of just admitting that he lost at the game.

Simple attention to details (Perhaps not so simple for you). Any trained observer can do it. And you make it even easier for me, and anyone that pays attention, to do.

As Sherlock Holmes would have said, "Once you eliminate all reasonable possibilities, then what is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth".

I noticed that, on your profile, your wife is not even included on it with you. If your wife is in this with you, as a couple, then why not include her on your profile?

I am absolutely certain that there are plenty of legitimate reasons (as opposed to excuses) for that. Plenty of folks here have them, but in your case, are they going to be true? we have only your word for that and the fact that you lied to your spouse, the person most trustworthy of all, shows that you are as likely to lie to everyone else, since you have lied to the person most trustworthy in your life.

You have lied to her before, so why not now, to the us,here? What is stopping you? Certainly not your moral compass.

Bad habits are very difficult to break, aren't they?


Other's realized that I came clean to my wife, why couldn't you?

You must have missed the part where I didn't need to "come clean" to my wife (more than a couple of posts ago), since I told her all about it when we were dating and she was, at that time, my girlfriend.

See, I caught you in another lie; a piss poor and easily disproven lie, at that.

I will tell you what I tell Creationists: "Facts do not change simply because they are inconvenient or contradictory to your beliefs."

Didn't you notice that picture and profile data, which included her basic info, on our profile, whiches gives you any indication that she is informed and included in what I do?

You miss too much and ignore everything that could possibly prove you wrong.

Like I said once before. If you want to argue with me, then have your facts straight and correct.
You fail miserably in that area. And it has been repeatedly proven.



I have threads all over this board on my comming out process in detail. No secrets at all. The guilt from my affair is what prompted me to come out to her and luckily we over came it. It made me a much better person.

Good for you. Many of us do. Mostly in response to others who are new to being Bi and need advice about coming out. One, mabe more, of those threads even has my story about coming out to my wife.
But while it may have made you a better person, the fact that, even after that, you still endorse cheating as the primary option, you have a long way to go to be a much better person.

The real point is that you lied to her in the first place, so what about you should tell us that you are not lying now?
Your word?
Your word lost it's value when you lied in the first place.
Admitting that you lied is a good start, but the fact that you omit things that you think will put you in a bad light is still a lie of omission. And a lie of omission is also a lie.

If you want to be a much better person, then stop lying to yourself.

I have no secrets; either from my wife or my friends and social groups. I don't advertise it, but when asked, I answer honestly. My ex-wife even knows, and knew before we married as well.

I never needed guilt to come out to my wife, since I had the integrity to not lie and the trust in my relationship's strength to be honest in the first place.
My son, on the other hand does not know because, quite frankly, it is not his business to know and he has never asked.



If you were smart enough to put two and two together, you'd have figured out that.

Sorry, but I am far smarter than you (the reason that I argue with known data and not insults) and I pay attention to details, something that you do not do and have been called on in your arguments.


Maybe that's why I don't condemn and judge others, because I've been there and understand where they're comming from.

Yes, the "let he who is without sin" defense. It is human nature to, as you put it, "condemn and judge" others. it is just a cop out, to avoid admitting your own faults.

But wait.....you have condemned and judged me. Many times over and usually to avoid addressing issues that I have brought up.
Here's the latest one (From this same post that I am responding to, even):

"If you were smart enough to put two and two together, you'd have figured out that."

Sorry, but hypocrisy does not help your stance and that statement is a judgment, and, to be honest, making your statement that you don't judge (after than quote from you) is a lie as well.
Perhaps you just don't know what a judgment or condemnation is?


Falcon, you have no power over me or anyone else on this board. You don't even have power over your own sensibilities.

I repeat. I think you're broken. No need to pm that.

More proof that you are wrong.

First of all, I really don't want power over anybody on this board, but you rose to defend a position that had no moral high ground at all and I rose to defend doing right over wrong. you lost before the battle was engaged and I easily moved the battlefield to ground of my choosing, knowing that you would follow.

That gave me power over you. If you were really honest, then this would not still be going on, here.

If you were really honest, then you would have admitted that you were defending what you knew to be wrong and this would be all behind us.

INSTEAD, you chose to continue to defend a position that was both amoral and unwinnable, on the grounds of amorality.

If you knew anything about predatory sentient species (of which man is only one, and the only one with technology), you would have known better than to do that and that is what gave me the power. I don't enjoin a fight that I cannot win.
But you chose to fight a fight that you knew, in your heart, that was a losing fight. Quite a foolish thing to do. Deep down, even your "friends" know that cheating is wrong, but they stood by you only because they don't like me.
So your friends can do nothing but support you and your same lies because, quite frankly, they can't add anything of value to use to defend the immorality of your position.

Even LDD, has to admit that cheating is wrong, and if he doesn't then perhaps Twyla (unless she has some form of arrangement with him) should consider a different boyfriend.

LDD, I know that you believe that cheating is wrong. Remember what I said earlier about the enemy of your enemy?

I had the power, since you and your ego gave it to me, since you supported an argument that cannot be one on the basis of right and wrong and you knew it.
You gave me the power to irritate you, because deep down, you knew that you were wrong but cannot control your ego's drive to win at all costs; to the point that you feel that you need to win, no matter how insulting, nonsensical, amoral or dishonest your arguments get.

Just like your claims that you are right and I am wrong.

I had the power to remain calm in the face of insults when opposing arguments or conceding the point would have served you infinitely better (your "friends" should have warned you about that mistake, since they did the same thing with me, in one case, over and over again until the only responses were insults and irrationality).

You have, thus far, demonstrated that you;

have little to no moral compass,

that you back-peddle when you start to lose an argument,

that you do not pay attention to what you are responding,

that you do not know the definitions of some of the simplest and most basic words used in regards to this subject,

that you cannot admit that you are wrong when you know it,

that you choose your allies poorly (as do they).

If you believe that you have the power to end this, then stop responding, stop with the snide and ignorant remarks about me, because every time that you say something stupid about cheating, I will shut the point down with facts, again.

You desperately need the attention of thinking that you are a "big man". You are not. the fact that you fight what you know is a losing battle proves that. There comes a point in every battle where the only choices are surrender or withdraw. That point was passed, by you, quite a while ago.

You seem to be under the impression that this is personal for me.

It honestly is not. My issues with my ex have long since been over. if it hadn't, then I could not have the relationship with my wife, that I have had since before we were married.
But I will defend right over wrong. It is personal for you, but you cannot be the bigger man until you stop defending the moral low ground; something that you appear to not yet be willing to do.

As they say in all of the mafia films, "nothing personal. It's just business".

You have been defending what you know to be wrong; namely cheating. Concede, honestly and sincerely, that you are wrong for defending it and this can all end.

So man up and do what is right. Only that will give you your power back.

No need to pm that, either. It is spread through this thread for all to see.

[Long Duck Dong]

Even LDD, has to admit that cheating is wrong, and if he doesn't then perhaps Twyla (unless she has some form of arrangement with him) should consider a different boyfriend.

LDD, I know that you believe that cheating is wrong. Remember what I said earlier about the enemy of your enemy?



I do not have to admit anything.... I am free to speak or say nothing as I see fit...... twyla has the freedom to come and go as she sees fit......

my partner can satisfy my needs and desires and that gives her a edge over people like you that can not be satisfied by your wife.... as twyla knows that i will not stray from her bed......

thats a gift, a blessing and tells the world just how special twyla is and how much of a woman she is as a person...... the fact that twyla has chosen me to stand beside her, is a blessing far beyond anything I could wish for.....

so falcon, go and wander the bed of mortal men as you seek satisfaction at the hands of others..... I am blessed far beyond your wildest dreams

may you burn elder wood to warm your hearth

[tenni]

"First of all, I really don't want power over anybody on this board, but you rose to defend a position that had no moral high ground at all and I rose to defend doing right over wrong. you lost before the battle was engaged and I easily moved the battlefield to ground of my choosing, knowing that you would follow.

That gave me power over you. If you were really honest, then this would not still be going on, here."

What? I don't think that you realize what your words indicate about you.

[rissababynta]

may you burn elder wood to warm your hearth

Ok I gotta admit that I did LOL at this.

Ok so you know how when Tom Cruise started getting weird...and we all started wondering what was going on with him...then after his appearance on Oprah we finally said to ourselves "yeah...I think he may have just cracked."

Well I hate to say it but I think that Falcon is like Tom and this thread is like Oprah's couch...

[tenni]

Discreet-a human being who knows how to use the word appropriately as opposed to "discrete". They also know not to suck cock at mid day at the intersection of the two main streets of their community :bigrin:


Cheat v. -to sexually go outside of a relationship (regardless of numbers in the relationship) for sexual release due to being a person who is sexually dissatisfied with their relationship. The other person(s) do not know about their actions. They find the delemna impossible to resolve other than this act for a wide variety of reasons because they need sexual release, affection, etc. that is unobtainable from the other person. They do not wish to leave their relationship for a wide variety of reasons. Making a moral judgement about their actions has nothing to do with the meaning. That happens in room 402 between 12:00 and 12:01. Sorry, but I'm too discreet to tell you whether it is am or pm. If you are able to find which building and which community, we will give you the judge gavel and a black garment to judge and declare the morality of the case.....(not a dress but a pretty black robe that hides your figure quite well :)

Discreet adj

Discreet is an adjective connected with the virtues of prudence, circumspection, modesty, and self-restraint. Here are two examples:

The heiress was anything but a show-off, dressing in a discreet manner and making no ostentatious purchases.

Enrico felt justified in confiding in Dr. Wiggins, who was celebrated not only for her insights into people’s lives and problems, but also for being entirely discreet.

Discreet came into English through Old French. Its roots are in the Latin past participle of the word discernere, meaning “to discern” or “to separate.” Discreet covers a variety of meanings related to the “discern” element of the Latin word’s meaning. It is pronounced /dih SKREET/.

Discrete adj

Discrete is an adjective that is used to designate the separateness of something from other things or to identify a particular whole as having distinct, separate-or non-continuous- parts. It also has a particular mathematical meaning in describing a set of values. An example of the standard use is:

The driving exam has several discrete, non-overlapping sections, all of which must be passed in order for you to be awarded a license, Mr. Mantigua.

Like discreet, discrete came into English through Old French and has its origins in the past participle of the Latin discernere, meaning both “to separate” and “to discern.” Discrete covers a variety of meanings related to the “separate” element of the Latin word’s meaning.

You can see now that each of the words in the pair discreet/discrete develops one of the two main meanings of the Latin root from which they both come. The branching of this one Latin word into two English words clarifies why they are so very similar and difficult to distinguish.

Distinguishing Discreet and Discrete

One way to recall the difference between discrete and discreet is to use this mnemonic:

Discrete is about separating into distinct parts: notice how the two e’s are separated. Discreet, on the other hand, is about keeping information contained and under wraps: notice how the e’s are closed up within the boundaries of the word. Keeping this in mind may help you remember which of these words is which.

disclaimer 1: Some of us who have been cheated on, do not think like Falcon.

disclaimer 2: All of the meanings above have been "tongue in cheek" couched in terms of a relationship between two, three or more human beings whether they are narrow minded, rigid thinking, sexually bigotted,hypocritcal people who lack tolerance or not. :eek: This includes men who like to dress in "celtic costumes ( a manly form of a woman's skirt..not cross dressing at all. So don't say that it is ;)" etc., practice some form of witchcraft regardless of what term that they use, suck cock and like to bring another person into their relationship only if their spouse agrees. They rationalize that they are moral and others are not.

[fredtyg]

For those who are cool with cheating and are defending cheating would you be fine with your wife, husband, or s.o. who you are in a monogamous relationship with cheating on you?

I don't think I'd mind. The only problem is, she's pretty religious and thinks sex should only be between two people so, if she did decide to fool around, it would be because she wanted to leave me. I've never thought of leaving her, whether it be for a guy or girl so that would seem unfair to me.

[TwylaTwobits]

For those who are cool with cheating and are defending cheating would you be fine with your wife, husband, or s.o. who you are in a monogamous relationship with cheating on you?

Now there's the key, are they in a monogamous relationship. That makes the difference in the perceptions. By virtue of a monogamous relationship you are with ONE partner. Those that choose to have an open relationship and communicate with their partner, in my opinion are not cheating. But the ones who have to hide from their partner and sneak around to fulfill whatever needs, not just physical but emotional are cheating.

The same way that there are different levels of cheating. And sometimes the emotional betrayal is much worse and cuts so much deeper than any physical act.

Once the trust is gone in a relationship, it takes a lot of time and open communication to build it back up. I applaud Mikey for realizing what he was doing and communicating clearly to his wife. She had the choice to leave the marriage or just turn a blind eye. She did the unexpected, she not only understood but she actually interacts with his male partner as a friend.

I understand open relationships, they are just not for me. But the very word "open" means by that you are open to your partner about what you need to be complete. They have the choice to stay or go.

So good question, it's been asked often on here of the people who go outside relationships for sex.

[tenni]

For those who are cool with cheating and are defending cheating would you be fine with your wife, husband, or s.o. who you are in a monogamous relationship with cheating on you?

Cool with cheating?
defending cheating?

The two above statements are your interpretation of what is being posted. I'm not sure as I skip over some of the comments from the narrow minded primary relationship thinkers but I don't know if anyone has actually used that language? I may be wrong.

Some of us are capable of not being so closed minded as to see the greys that some narrow minded primary relationship thinkers who function at lower levels of moral development are not able to understand or accept.

Cool may be more positively replaced with "compassion"
Defending may be more positively replaced with "comprehending"

I do agree that being cheated on does hurt a lot. I don't believe that one side only is responsible though. It wasn't in my situation. I ignored the facts and only really saw them after the cheating. I chose to ignore the facts because I thought that I was different and special...pfft..lol

[Long Duck Dong]

here is a curve ball that I was thinking about last night

we can base cheating around doing what your partner doesn't know about ....so.... if you are in a relationship where you have permission to take other lovers... but with the criteria that there is a DADT policy over your activities.... then if you are not telling your partner who you are sleeping with..... is it in fact cheating.....

in my eyes it actually causes conflict with a lot of the anti cheating arguments as the definition of cheating is a person sleeping with other people that their partner doesn't know about....
and in this case, while there is permission, the partner STILL doesn't know who you are sleeping with, or if you are sleeping with other people

[myglendon]

hi wnna join!

[FalconAngel]

me three but then Falcon oh so publicly declared he was putting Duckie on ignore so why would he be saying anything about posts he can't see?

Because duck will pick the side that is against me, figuring that the enemy of his enemy is actually his friend.
The US is still learning that lesson with Israel.

[FalconAngel]

Now there's the key, are they in a monogamous relationship. That makes the difference in the perceptions. By virtue of a monogamous relationship you are with ONE partner. Those that choose to have an open relationship and communicate with their partner, in my opinion are not cheating. But the ones who have to hide from their partner and sneak around to fulfill whatever needs, not just physical but emotional are cheating.

The same way that there are different levels of cheating. And sometimes the emotional betrayal is much worse and cuts so much deeper than any physical act.

Once the trust is gone in a relationship, it takes a lot of time and open communication to build it back up. I applaud Mikey for realizing what he was doing and communicating clearly to his wife. She had the choice to leave the marriage or just turn a blind eye. She did the unexpected, she not only understood but she actually interacts with his male partner as a friend.

I understand open relationships, they are just not for me. But the very word "open" means by that you are open to your partner about what you need to be complete. They have the choice to stay or go.

So good question, it's been asked often on here of the people who go outside relationships for sex.

Exactly. Cheaters only consider themselves and put their wants above their partner. That is not a relationship, it is possession, which I said before.

They rarely, if ever consider what the consequences are to their partner and relationship.

They don't stop to think about how they would like it done to them. Which is why I have pointed out that reminding those who ask for advice to suggest that they cheat, Needs to include the warning about the consequences for when, not if, one gets caught.

Not pointing all of those negatives out is just plain irresponsible.

[TwylaTwobits]

And yet, Falcon, in your misguided attempt to go after Duck you made very irresponsible remarks about his relationship with me. I don't appreciate it and yeah this is picking a fight. You want to fight with me, bring it on. I have not a damned thing to lose, and apparently neither do you, since you have lost the respect of most everyone here at this point. You publicly flame people, call them liars and hide behind what you don't even believe in yourself. But I will warn you, be careful when you play with fire, cause I AM what you pretend to be. I walk with my Goddess, do you?

[Long Duck Dong]

Because duck will pick the side that is against me, figuring that the enemy of his enemy is actually his friend.
The US is still learning that lesson with Israel.

I have a general anti cheating stance, tho I make allowances as cheating is not all black and white......

you have a anti cheating stance stance that requires everything to be black and white......

the side that separates us,.... is I do not need to use personal attacks such as your remarks about mikey...... remarks that are uncalled for, and actually incorrect....... mikey is out to his wife and have been for a while.... he was not refering to you and your wife.....

you failed to realise that and continued to launch a personal attack on mikey and his morals and ethics in your vain attempt to support your own misguided desire to play the higher moral ground and portray yourself as a upstanding member of society....

honestly... a good number of the forum, have the opinion that the only way you could be upstanding.... is with viagra

there is a old saying....

tis a foolish man that walks the high ground, for while they believe they look down on others, in truth their heads are in the clouds.....

[mikey3000]

If you believe that you have the power to end this, then stop responding, stop with the snide and ignorant remarks about me, because every time that you say something stupid about cheating, I will shut the point down with facts, again.

I'm still waiting to see ANY facts from you dude. So I'll give you the power to go look some up. :tongue:

[tenni]

hot_for_summertime
"I'm out and not interested in closeted or DL men who are going to cheat on their GF or wife and expect me to be their secret on the side. "

I think that the above statement in your profile explains your position. Such statements in a profile suggest a story about what has happened to you in your past to bring you to this position.

We may want to agree to disagree. I do not believe that I used the words "cool" or "defending" in connnection with cheating. You see me as defending cheating and yet I have not said that I defend it. I'm not for cheating but I am able to understand that it does happen. I make no judgements as to who is to blame when it does. I agree that when someone does something in a relationship that the other person may not be happy with that. There are a lot of emotions that may follow whether it is cheating or other deeds. I have been cheated on in a relationship and suspect that you have as well?

My morals are jaded in your perspective. Ok. We have different morals. If you suck cock, others will condemn you and your morals as well. They will state that you have no values or morals...and worse.

Now, about your strong desire to be out. Are you out enough to suck cock on the two major intersections of your community..say at noon? :)



I meant what I asked. Don't add stuff in that I did not write and pretend to yourself that I wrote what you wanted to read or try to twist my writing around to suit your own argument and agenda for lying and cheating.

I've read this thread and the only person who seems to be defending cheating or making up excuses for cheating is you Tenni.

If you want to cheat on a partner go right ahead and do it. Just be honest and tell your partner first that you're going to cheat on them since it's only fair since you're jaded, have no morals, and do not communicate well with partners to break up with them first if you want to fuck someone else.

I have no sympathy or compassion for people who cheat. Is it really that hard to understand? Most people even if they are in open relationships like Falcon is would not be OK with a partner lying and cheating on them or with lying and cheating to their partner.

This has nothing to do with being close minded or being in your words a "narrow minded primary relationship thinker who function at lower levels of moral development". Since you are so blindly for cheating and lying you yourself are a narrow minded thinker who functions at lower levels of moral development since you have no values or morals.

Even if I were in an open relationship and whoever I was with cheated or did something we did not agree upon I still would not be happy or feel like they somehow had a right or an excuse to do this.

Sometimes the reasons for cheating are one sided such as the person being greedy or not being able to communicate with their partner and end the relationship since they no longer want to be faithful like both people have agreed upon.

[crazy_cat_lady]

Go ahead and cheat, then. But give your spouse the courtesy of telling them so they can make an informed decision. It is the right thing to do.

I will never say that sex out of the marriage bed is a bad thing. I will say, however, that sex out of the marriage bed without allowing your spouse the opportunity to decide if they can live with you cheating or not is where the actual betrayal is.

If my spouse had ED, I'd tell them that I was going to go elsewhere to meet my physical intimacy needs. If they wish to stay with me, fantastic. If they want to divorce me, that's their choice. But at least they have the choice.

Pasa

And I agree pasa. I wasnt saying to cheat and not tell them and give them a choice in the matter. what I was trying to do was make Falcon look at the potential cheaters point of view and what he'd do in that situation, because according to him either stay in a sexless intamacy starved marrage or devorce them on the spot. no choice for the spouce either way. because honesty forms trust which is another foundation of love.

[FalconAngel]

I'm still waiting to see ANY facts from you dude. So I'll give you the power to go look some up. :tongue:

Why do you insist on being a horses ass?

The facts are there and you must have some experience with that, even though you are lying about them.

Someone smart would have learned by now, but I guess that isn't you.

I would call you a tool, but I respect tools more than you.

And at least I have a moral compass to help guide my actions. You, on the other hand, talk like you have the same moral compass of a lawyer (moral compass surgically removed).

No offense to the Lawyers out there that were smart enough to hang on to their moral compasses.

[FalconAngel]

And yet, Falcon, in your misguided attempt to go after Duck you made very irresponsible remarks about his relationship with me. I don't appreciate it and yeah this is picking a fight. You want to fight with me, bring it on. I have not a damned thing to lose, and apparently neither do you, since you have lost the respect of most everyone here at this point. You publicly flame people, call them liars and hide behind what you don't even believe in yourself. But I will warn you, be careful when you play with fire, cause I AM what you pretend to be. I walk with my Goddess, do you?

Sorry, but you have been telling everyone that you are LDD's girlfriend.

Is that an inaccurate statement?
I mean, you have said it more than once and even made specific mention of it for a thread that you started on that very subject.

Whatever agreement that you two have is not anyone's business, but if you both know that the other has approval to mess around behind your back on their own, then that is not the same as cheating, since, in that case, you are both aware of and approve.

Cheating is sneaking around and violating one's relationship agreement (or marriage vows).

[TwylaTwobits]

Sorry, but you have been telling everyone that you are LDD's girlfriend.

Is that an inaccurate statement?
I mean, you have said it more than once and even made specific mention of it for a thread that you started on that subject.

Whatever agreement that you two have is not anyone's business, but if you both know that the other has approval to mess around behind your back on their own, then that is not the same as cheating, since, in that case, you are both aware of and approve.

Cheating is sneaking around and violating one's relationship agreement (or marriage vows).

I am not his girlfriend, I'm his partner. Lifemate whatever you want to call it. And he will not cheat on me, he is as anti cheating as I am. You attempted to say he was wrong because he actually sees there are specific times IE LittleRayofSunshine's aunt that had the mental capacity of a child that could not consent to sex let alone understand that her husband was going elsewhere. So again you try to say that LDD is pro cheating, he's not. As he has posted AGAIN AND AGAIN with the same message. What about the cheated on? He got flamed then and he probably will again. But you need to stop with your personal attacks because they are in complete violation of this board's policies.

[Long Duck Dong]

Sorry, but you have been telling everyone that you are LDD's girlfriend.

Is that an inaccurate statement?
I mean, you have said it more than once and even made specific mention of it for a thread that you started on that very subject.

Whatever agreement that you two have is not anyone's business, but if you both know that the other has approval to mess around behind your back on their own, then that is not the same as cheating, since, in that case, you are both aware of and approve.

Cheating is sneaking around and violating one's relationship agreement (or marriage vows).


ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I present to you, the following .....

in this very thread, I have stated, that I am anti cheating but pro understanding of the nature of cheating and why it can happen
apparently a side opposite to falcons own stance of anti cheating....

in this very thread, we have witnessed falcon address others to speak to him directly.... while falcon has me on ignore and fails to see my stance as posted in this thread

in this very thread, my fellow posters, I have clearly stated that my partner, twyla twobits is well capable of satisfying me and that is why I endeavour to remain monogamous, while falcon has clearly admitted that his own partner fails to satisfy him, so he needs to seek satisfaction with others....

in this very thread, we bear witness to falcon calling others by degrading names and inflammatory labels, while portraying himself as a moral gentleman....

so my fellow posters, I put the following to you

that falcon indeed, seeks to justify his own wandering from the marital art, by way of personal remarks about the lifestyle of others and the fact that it would may well be a case, of falcon is unable to accept that twlya is able to do what he can not, satisfy their partner
falcon has protrayed himself as a man that embraces the truth and faces any battle directly, while making statements about and regarding me, that are clearly incorrect.... incorrect because falcon has me on ignore so is unable to know my actual stance and therefore is showing that falcon is ignorant of the truth by his own hand......

ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I direct you to pictures on falcon on his profile, dressed in a kilt which many people may feel is a substitute for a desire to wear feminine natured clothing as kilts do take on the same form as a dress

in closing, I feel that this case of the thread and posts is best summed up with a single sentence

" falcon has proven that he is the exact opposite of what he claims to do and say, and to be... and in conclusion, we can only assume that falcon is not a male at all, but in fact a woman in drag with a beard "

I thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury and await your decision as to the charges against falcon

[FalconAngel]

I am not his girlfriend, I'm his partner. Lifemate whatever you want to call it. And he will not cheat on me, he is as anti cheating as I am.

Well, then I was right.

I never specifically said that he was pro cheating, but I did posit the possibility as one of 2 options as to why he sided with Mikey, who is almost militantly pro-cheating.

The other option, then (the one that I had hoped for), is that he is under the impression that the enemy of his enemy is his friend. He is wrong about that, of course, and will soon discover that to be true.

He opposes cheating, just as I had believed, so he's siding with Mikey just to oppose me, without regard to my, or his, personal stance, on this subject.

Like I said, the enemy of his enemy is not his friend. And you need to read, a bit more thoroughly, what I say before responding to it.

like I said in the post that you responded to, I asked if that was the reason or was it just to oppose me.


You attempted to say he was wrong because he actually sees there are specific times IE LittleRayofSunshine's aunt that had the mental capacity of a child that could not consent to sex let alone understand that her husband was going elsewhere.

Now that needs deeper examination, doesn't it. Was this due to an accident after marriage or was that specific mental state in existence before marriage.

If it was before, then why marry her at all or get involved? If after, then were all other, more honest, options explored?

You, as a fellow Pagan should know that everyone is responsible for their own words and actions; for good or ill. We are responsible to examine every possibility and, as long as we are good people, we should be choosing to make the least harmful (to ourselves and/or others around us) actions to take.

Don't you agree with that?



So again you try to say that LDD is pro cheating, he's not. As he has posted AGAIN AND AGAIN with the same message. What about the cheated on? He got flamed then and he probably will again. But you need to stop with your personal attacks because they are in complete violation of this board's policies.

Like I said before. I didn't say that he was I said that it was one of 2 reasonable choices as to why he sided with Mikey. See, I have him figured out, and, to a degree, you as well. He will hold onto a grudge as long as possible, perhaps even long enough that it eats him alive.
And you will side with him, whether he is right or wrong, particularly when he is wrong.
In your case, it is an admirable trait, but you should be sure that he is right more than wrong. Because he is an adult and should be able to win at least one argument and be able to prove at least one point on his own.

If you pick a side, simply to get the upper hand in an argument that you know to be wrong, it will not make you right and you will lose.

Perhaps he should read a little bit of "the art of war".
Mikey chose to fight a battle against common decency and when he started to lose, then LDD joining him did not help his position, because LDD does not believe in it.

To win a war, you must believe in the cause. Mikey is just being arbitrary, since he has claimed that he no longer behaves in accordance with the cause he is fighting for. He no longer believes in the cause (cheating).

I, on the other hand, firmly believe in my cause (integrity in one's relationship).

I cold show examples from both world and American history to prove my point, but they would just fall on deaf ears.

[TwylaTwobits]

Well, then I was right.

I never specifically said that he was pro cheating, but I did posit the possibility as one of 2 options as to why he sided with Mikey, who is almost militantly pro-cheating.

The other option, then (the one that I had hoped for), is that he is under the impression that the enemy of his enemy is his friend. He is wrong about that, of course, and will soon discover that to be true.

He opposes cheating, just as I had believed, so he's siding with Mikey just to oppose me, without regard to my, or his, personal stance, on this subject.

Like I said, the enemy of his enemy is not his friend. And you need to read, a bit more thoroughly, what I say before responding to it.

like I said in the post that you responded to, I asked if that was the reason or was it just to oppose me.



Now that needs deeper examination, doesn't it. Was this due to an accident after marriage or was that specific mental state in existence before marriage.

If it was before, then why marry her at all or get involved? If after, then were all other, more honest, options explored?

You, as a fellow Pagan should know that everyone is responsible for their own words and actions; for good or ill. We are responsible to examine every possibility and, as long as we are good people, we should be choosing to make the least harmful (to ourselves and/or others around us) actions to take.

Don't you agree with that?




Like I said before. I didn't say that he was I said that it was one of 2 reasonable choices as to why he sided with Mikey. See, I have him figured out, and, to a degree, you as well. He will hold onto a grudge as long as possible, perhaps even long enough that it eats him alive.
And you will side with him, whether he is right or wrong, particularly when he is wrong.
In your case, it is an admirable trait, but you should be sure that he is right more than wrong. Because he is an adult and should be able to win at least one argument and be able to prove at least one point on his own.

If you pick a side, simply to get the upper hand in an argument that you know to be wrong, it will not make you right and you will lose.

Perhaps he should read a little bit of "the art of war".
Mikey chose to fight a battle against common decency and when he started to lose, then LDD joining him did not help his position, because LDD does not believe in it.

To win a war, you must believe in the cause. Mikey is just being arbitrary, since he has claimed that he no longer behaves in accordance with the cause he is fighting for. He no longer believes in the cause (cheating).

I, on the other hand, firmly believe in my cause (integrity in one's relationship).

I cold show examples from both world and American history to prove my point, but they would just fall on deaf ears.


You just proved you didn't read LittleRayofSunshine's post at all didn't you. Your "needs to be looked at deeper" is answered there. There are shades of grey where cheating is understandable but no one has ever said it's RIGHT. There is a huge difference. No one is siding with anyone because they like or dislike anyone. This is an issue that has probably touched every person on this site given by the number of responses to the many, many cheating threads on this board. Learn to read the shadows, Falcon, just because old ways are old doesn't make them wise.

[mikey3000]

Again, Falcon. you have no power over anyone here. You don't like when people can think for themselves, thus you must attack them from every angle. That is a sign of poor character. You randomly attack everyone's intelect and skill to elevate YOUR self. That is what is so pathetic about you, you have a superiority complex. Mystery solved. I don't need to amass the troops for battle with you at all. All I have to do is give you a platform. You do the damage all yourself.

[TaylorMade]

Ok I gotta admit that I did LOL at this.

Ok so you know how when Tom Cruise started getting weird...and we all started wondering what was going on with him...then after his appearance on Oprah we finally said to ourselves "yeah...I think he may have just cracked."

Well I hate to say it but I think that Falcon is like Tom and this thread is like Oprah's couch...

Dammit, you know you gotta ring me on the white courtesy phone if there's gonna be a Miss Cruise allusion to be made. :p

*Taylor*

[crazy_cat_lady]

Ok I gotta admit that I did LOL at this.

Ok so you know how when Tom Cruise started getting weird...and we all started wondering what was going on with him...then after his appearance on Oprah we finally said to ourselves "yeah...I think he may have just cracked."

Well I hate to say it but I think that Falcon is like Tom and this thread is like Oprah's couch...lmao! I absolutly agree. I know I get steamed when I get into a debate and sometimes get nasty whern defending a point but then I cool off and apologize like I did with LDD. Falcon however will never do that because he's nuts and he is close minded and a all or nothing, black and white area. BTW was Falcon really banned? if so then this wont matter much but heres the facts falcon loves so much from either side.

Fact 1: cheating as defined as hiding or lying to your S.O. about having sex out of your relationship is wrong, and causes harm to a relationship.

Fact 2: there are some exceptions and/or justifiable reasons for cheating involving one or both people involved. This DOES NOT mean harm is still not casued to the relationship because of such actions. justified as it might be it still causes pain and/or stress for the relationship and really shouldn't be done. Unless of course if you had extinuating cercumstances like your S.O. not having the ability of concenting, as previously discussed.

Fact 3: People have many definitions of cheating. Most people in a monogumous relationship consider cheating having sex outside of the relationship or seeking satifaction with another person other than said S.O.

Others however in varius degrees of openness consider cheating just lying about seeing someone else or hiding the fact. In other words its the deception not the act that is the betrayal.

Still others consider becoming emotionally attached to someone other than thier S.O. is cheating. Meaning the arrangment was purely meaningless sex out of the relationship, emotion/love/attachment inside the relationship.

Fact 4: no mater which form of cheating one does the best solution to rectify it is telling your S.O. about it and letting them have the choice to deside what to do next. as hard of a thing to do as that seems it is the only true Fair one.

there are the facts that I have gathered from this thread use them as you wish and Falcon can kiss my fact gathering ASS since he only seems to pick the ones that suite him. well guess what? facts are impartial.

Facts are like Pokemon cards...some are so complicated that all you can do is collect them.

and if I missed some please tell me.;)

[mikey3000]

lmao! I absolutly agree. I know I get steamed when I get into a debate and sometimes get nasty whern defending a point but then I cool off and apologize like I did with LDD. Falcon however will never do that because he's nuts and he is close minded and a all or nothing, black and white area. BTW was Falcon really banned? if so then this wont matter much but heres the facts falcon loves so much from either side.

Fact 1: cheating as defined as hiding or lying to your S.O. about having sex out of your relationship is wrong, and causes harm to a relationship.

Fact 2: there are some exceptions and/or justifiable reasons for cheating involving one or both people involved. This DOES NOT mean harm is still not casued to the relationship because of such actions. justified as it might be it still causes pain and/or stress for the relationship and really shouldn't be done. Unless of course if you had extinuating cercumstances like your S.O. not having the ability of concenting, as previously discussed.

Fact 3: People have many definitions of cheating. Most people in a monogumous relationship consider cheating having sex outside of the relationship or seeking satifaction with another person other than said S.O.

Others however in varius degrees of openness consider cheating just lying about seeing someone else or hiding the fact. In other words its the deception not the act that is the betrayal.

Still others consider becoming emotionally attached to someone other than thier S.O. is cheating. Meaning the arrangment was purely meaningless sex out of the relationship, emotion/love/attachment inside the relationship.

Fact 4: no mater which form of cheating one does the best solution to rectify it is telling your S.O. about it and letting them have the choice to deside what to do next. as hard of a thing to do as that seems it is the only true Fair one.

there are the facts that I have gathered from this thread use them as you wish and Falcon can kiss my fact gathering ASS since he only seems to pick the ones that suite him. well guess what? facts are impartial.

Facts are like Pokemon cards...some are so complicated that all you can do is collect them.

and if I missed some please tell me.;)

Very well stated. Covered all the bases.

[Long Duck Dong]

yeah I agree, it about covers it..... and lays it out that cheating is a lot of grey areas, not black and white

[crazy_cat_lady]

:bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

YAY! I did good! so tell me is falcon banned or not? it says it under his name...does that mean he is?

[Long Duck Dong]

yeah... falcons banned..... why and what for, I can only guess at..... but drew had his reasons.....

[mikey3000]

What? He's banned? I hope it wasn't on my behalf.

[DuckiesDarling]

What? He's banned? I hope it wasn't on my behalf.

;):tongue:

[mikey3000]

:eek: Holy crap!!! I didn't mean for that to happen. I just wanted him to respect other people's positions and not be so mean to them. Wow.

[Long Duck Dong]

falcon created his own path,.... and chose to walk it.... nobody else is responsible for the way that path lay

falcons fate was decided by his own hand so it was only a matter of time before what he wove with his words, would become his own last words.... I warned him about that in another thread, when he mocked wicca and the olde ways.....

[rissababynta]

So then Twyla is banned too?

[DuckiesDarling]

So then Twyla is banned too?

and still waiting on a response from Drew, but since I did nothing bannable, new name, old face, same attitude. Even if Twyla is unbanned I'll prolly still use this name. Twyla was a name made up in a hurry to get in to see Duckies profile when he sent me here to see it, this is a name I made after being here.

[Annika L]

OMG people, what the hell goes on?

Is it that we get antsy when there isn't a troll around for a while, and just feel the need to attack one another, because nobody else is doing it?

Can everyone please just look at themselves, decide honestly in your own heart whether you've behaved badly or not (we DON'T need to hear your decision), and if you have, then apologize *either in a silent prayer or a private message*. Then, regardless of your position, definitions, moral high ground, wrongdoing, or whatever, *stop* posting to this thread??

I'll start, so you can see what it looks like...watch me:

[crazy_cat_lady]

such is human nature Annika. we've been doing it for millenia. if we havent a common enemy we fight unangst ourselfs. an example my bf would use are the 13 tribes of Isreal. when they werent fighting a common enemy they fought eachother.

[nudistbione]

I am over 65 have been seeing the same guy for sex only for 5 - 6 years now, I got very envolved with lady but continue to stop by his house for a sexual relief I do not consider it cheating what do you think?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Good lord. Ya'll havent figured this out yet? Cheating and lying to a spouse, boyfriend/girlfriend ect is Still cheating, no matter How you try to sugar coat it and gloss it over to make it prettier, or to justify yourself in doing so.

Cheaters are just that, and cant be trusted as far as one can lift a pick up truck. Plain and simple truth. And if someone says "Oh I think its perfectly alright to cheat" then thats Your baggage and you have to deal with it. You live with your supposition, we'll live with the truth.
Cat

[DareMe]

The two words exist because they mean different things. And they are not mutually exclusive. One can be a cheat and not discreet about it and one can be discreet and not a cheat. And of course you can be both discreet and a cheat.

You seem to have very firm position that exposes a world that, in your eyes, is black and white. Bisexuality is about shades of gray! Different levels of attraction. How one decides to express his bisexuality is entirely his (or hers) business. Because of many reasons some stay in the closet or choose to disclose their bisexuality to a limited number of people.

Instead of denigrating the members in this site, perhaps it would be more adroit of you to have a conversation on how we can influence social sensibilities and openness about sexuality so that more of us can live less discreetly.

DM

[tenni]

Extremely well stated DareMe.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Instead of denigrating the members in this site, perhaps it would be more adroit of you to have a conversation on how we can influence social sensibilities and openness about sexuality so that more of us can live less discreetly.
DM

Less discreetly? Does this mean you condone a person's cheating?
Confused Cat

[Pasadenacpl2]

Is there anyone here who reads an ad on this site that says 'must be discrete' that doesn't know that the person doesn't want their wife to find out?

Playing word games can be fun. But the truth, inactual practice, is that the two words are used interchangably on this site, and that the usage is accepted by all. Even those who wisj to pretend otherwise.

Pasa

[bl4aa]

I feel that if you are bi you have already come to turms with life that most people do not see as right. Having sex with more then one person and or sex. So calling some one on the carpet for cheating is in some text an oxy moron. Yes, I agree if married you partner should know but then again that could be enough to destroy that pesron. None of this is right in the way the world thinks about it at all so either you are happy with you choices and that you can live with it or you don't do it at all. But to call some one on their beliefes is no defrent then some one thinking bad that you are bisexual in the first place.

[lv69cpl69]

To me, discrete is when you do not want the outside world to know and cheat is when you don't want your s/o to know.

The former is not bad, but the latter is bad. There are plenty of Bi couples, straight couples and mixed orientation couples out there that are discrete, but it does not mean that there is cheating going on. In our case, we both try to meet any of the guys that we are interested in, together. It does not always work out that way (when the wife is tired or ill), so the wife sends me off to do the meet and I return and report to her what my feelings are about the guy.

That is not cheating, but it is discrete.

Like I said, if the s/o does not know and is kept in the dark about anything even happening (like lying about it), then that is definitely cheating.

:male: Thats it my wife not only knows but got him and togrther and joins in at times but don't want to all the time the rest of the world has no NEED to know...... if your S/O dont know you are not only cheating but in our opnion a low life ass. if you love your s/o tell them if not spilt but don't live a lie... bi, str8 or gay no matter it's love and respect for your s/o

[Annika L]

Is there anyone here who reads an ad on this site that says 'must be discrete' that doesn't know that the person doesn't want their wife to find out?

Playing word games can be fun. But the truth, inactual practice, is that the two words are used interchangably on this site, and that the usage is accepted by all. Even those who wisj to pretend otherwise.

Pasa

You may think I'm just one of the naive ones, Pasa, but you are making unwarranted assumptions.

I am a professional. I am partnered. I am reasonably out (most people around know my partner is female, and I do correct people when they try to claim that I'm lesbian, rather than bi).

My partner and I have been monogamous for the past 25 years. But if we decide that we'd like to share a man, or even another woman (a) it will be done together (no cheating involved), and (b) we will damned well demand that it be discreet. We are a pair of professional women living in a small town area...indiscretion could well endanger either our careers or our lives.

I know other professionals on the site, who could be likewise affected by indiscretion. So please revise your opinion of what the word "discreet" means, when you view it on this site. It may not be what you're assuming.

[goldenfinger]

You may think I'm just one of the naive ones, Pasa, but you are making unwarranted assumptions.

I am a professional. I am partnered. I am reasonably out (most people around know my partner is female, and I do correct people when they try to claim that I'm lesbian, rather than bi).

My partner and I have been monogamous for the past 25 years. But if we decide that we'd like to share a man, or even another woman (a) it will be done together (no cheating involved), and (b) we will damned well demand that it be discreet. We are a pair of professional women living in a small town area...indiscretion could well endanger either our careers or our lives.

I know other professionals on the site, who could be likewise affected by indiscretion. So please revise your opinion of what the word "discreet" means, when you view it on this site. It may not be what you're assuming.

This is an old tread, don't get so hung up,,,,:eek:

[SxyStar]

I'm sorry but I have 2 put my 2 cents into this 2.

I am married to a man who doesn't really completely understand bisexuality. He has made an effort to understand, don't get me wrong. I have been monogamous with him for the past 9 yrs we have been together. He knew I was bi sexual when we first met 12 yrs ago. I haven't let my desires to be with woman over his emotional needs or sexual needs either.
Just here recently has my needs to be with woman again grow stronger. I have let his know this, good communication is key to a great marriage. He still tells me he doesn't really know how he feels about me being with anyone else sexually, regardless of gender.
He has let me have a g/f, even tho see lives 4 hrs away. We haven't done anything sexual together, but if that happens, he knows that I will tell him or talk to him about it. What we do in our marriage is discrete and only between the parties involved. I love my husband very much and no way will I do anything that will hurt him in anyway, emotional or other wise.
I don't believe in cheating and will never do it,but if he is ok with me being with a woman sexually that's a plus. If he isn't ok with it, then I will just keep it as a fantasy. It might sound like he is being selfish on his part since he already know before we got married, but I also knew what kind of person he was before I married him 2.
All I'm saying is, just b/c someone is bisexual doesn't mean they have to act on their urges just b/c they have them. You can be honest with your partner, so they know how you feel. What or how u deal with the urges should be between both partners in the marriage or realtionship, not just 1.

[Annika L]

This is an old tread, don't get so hung up,,,,:eek:

Yes, I was aware it was old. I don't get how the age of the thread changes the validity of what I wrote, what seems hung up to you, or what causes your eek.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Annika,

I'm just saying what the vast majority is. Most of those ads read: MWM must be discrete. That's code for 'don't let my wife find out.' Far too many conversations with these peeps.

No, it may not mean that for everyone. But for the vast majority, it does.

Pasa

[Gearbox]

I always thought that 'Must Be Discreet' meant "Don't act like a raving queen blowing kisses to me as I get back in my car!".:bigrin:
Well something to do with being closeted where m-m is concerned.

[Northerner]

Annika,

...No, it may not mean that for everyone. But for the vast majority, it does.

Pasa

I am curious, what makes you think that the "vast majority" are cheaters? Can you provide a reference to back up your assertion?

[pepperjack]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.

it's a real can of worms that I've addressed here before; the deception in the bi community disturbs me.

[lizard-lix]

I am curious, what makes you think that the "vast majority" are cheaters? Can you provide a reference to back up your assertion?

Well, Northerner, yes I can... I did a poll here a few months ago and while the majority was not quite 'vast' more than 50% of the guys said they cheat..

I agree with Cat's comment above.. Cheating is cheating, which is lying and at least for me, no way to treat my wife..

I've spent quite some time (several years), coming out out her all over again after 32 years of monogamous marriage (I told her I was bi before we married, now I want to add some kink to our life, rekindle our sexuality - hers had been flagging, and renegotiate monogamy).

It has been a very slow and sometimes painful process. But it is working. We have been to a swinger's club several times and after a rocky start, we are both having fun and maybe working toward playing with others together. We have also discussed letting me out to play with others. She has used a strapon on me and we both enjoyed it. (oh lord, I certainly did! :bigrin:

Probably the most important thing, is that she as started joking with me about sexuality again. She has even started sending me links to sexual orientation articles she comes across while doing her daily Internet news surf..

Others here have had it a lot easier, and a lot harder...

Not cheating has certainly been a challenging approach, but I can look her in the eye, say that I have never cheated and I won't and she knows I am speaking truth.

That goes a long way helping us get wherever we are going... together..

Your mileage WILL vary..

Liz

And I also agree with Gearbox, discreet is not going kissy to some guy in public, it does not necessarily have anything to do with cheating or not.. I live in the country in Texas, no matter what, my MM relationships will ALWAYS be discreet, if and when they start again.

[12voltman59]

Annika,

I'm just saying what the vast majority is. Most of those ads read: MWM must be discrete. That's code for 'don't let my wife find out.' Far too many conversations with these peeps.

No, it may not mean that for everyone. But for the vast majority, it does.

Pasa

Pasa--speaking strictly for myself---I am single but I still like to put it in profiles and in conversations with someone that I might meet with that I prefer to practice "Discretion" as well in such matters.

I prefer my sexual and or romantic life to be "discreet" like in I don't want the whole damn world to know about it whether I am with a lady or a guy--I mean this more in an old school sense that I don't feel who I might be with is not really a matter of "public record" as it were. I guess to use an old saying---"gentlemen don't kiss and tell" if you catch my drift.

I am sure to that to you-- politically and ideologically--I am a raging liberal and all---but when it comes to the way I generally live my life and conduct myself---I am really rather "conservative" with the big exception I guess is that I never did follow society's script that "you have to get married" and I don't follow the rules about not having sex with other guys.

I do have my reasons for not being open to the public about my bisexuality, but then again--I never felt it should be public knowledge, necessarily about what ladies I was seeing and or having sex with as well and I am sure as hell not going to go around blasting from the rooftops that I also like to have sex with guys--there are many downsides to that, sad to say.

I can assure you--there is not enough tea in China or gold in Fort Knox that would ever entice me to be on one of these scumbag, bottle of the barrel "reality" shows that exposes people's personal lives like the "Real Wives" shows. I just don't know what the hell would possess anyone to expose their personal lives in such a way!!!!! Money and some degree of passing "fame" (more like infamy as far as I am concerned) I guess--which to me is pure idiocy!!

When it comes to making judgements on why other guys say they want "discretion"-- being the evil, godless commie liberal I am---I don't make such value judgments and accept their desire for such discretion, accepting that their reason for doing so: " it is what it is" and pledge to honor that as long as they reciprocate in kind for me.

How's that for one of my "rambles??":bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::2cents: :2cents:

[tenni]

I'm rather repulsed by those who carry on about the term cheating and such judgmental approaches to bisexuality.

Discretion is something that I want and practise. I'm single and even when I have an intimate friendship with a guy, I don't want any public displays of affection or carrying on.

I agree with those who state that some of us are discreet and that doesn't mean that we cheat.

What I am noticing on another bisexual site with a larger number of younger men, university age, that there seems to be a desire to be "out" to the family and world as a stage of declaring your bisexuality. It seems to be a rite of passage for these younger guys while others want discretion once they are in the workforce.

[Annika L]

Well, Northerner, yes I can... I did a poll here a few months ago and while the majority was not quite 'vast' more than 50% of the guys said they cheat..

Hi Liz, I just wanted to point out that I *think* Northerner left out an important modifier in his post. I *think* (and I hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong) that he meant "what makes you think that the "vast majority" of people who request discretion in their profiles are cheaters?"

I remember your poll, and yes I agree that the majority of respondents said they cheated. The question that Northener seemed to be addressing, though, was whether (as Pasa claims) the expression "must be discreet" is really used by the vast majority of our members as code for "I'm cheating and I don't want my partner to find out."

Your poll would not shed light on that question.

[Annika L]

I'm rather repulsed by those who carry on about the term cheating and such judgmental approaches to bisexuality.

Meh, tenni, I'm pretty repulsed by the extremes on both sides: both those who fly into a knee-jerk rage over anyone's use of the word "cheat" or their questioning about what constitutes cheating, AND those who feel that violating their agreements with their partner without their partner's knowledge does not harm a relationship.

I think both positions lack thoughtfulness...and that suggests to me a denial of the complexity of the issue. I'm always repulsed by denial, even my own.:tongue:

[tenni]

You have a point Annika. I find it difficult to read any thread now where that word is used on this site. On another biguys' site, it is handled entirely differently. It exists and no one wants it to happen but it does. Being judgmental about other people's situation has always seemed inappropriate from my perspective and I find it most strange on a sexual minority website.

[Annika L]

You have a point Annika. I find it difficult to read any thread now where that word is used on this site. On another biguys' site, it is handled entirely differently. It exists and no one wants it to happen but it does. Being judgmental about other people's situation has always seemed inappropriate from my perspective and I find it most strange on a sexual minority website.

I think it's a very emotionally charged subject.

It can be devastating to be cheated on...certainly emotionally, and possibly physically. But as you imply, those who do it often see it as their only option and wish (often desperately) that it wasn't necessary...so the suggestion that they are "bad people" is also emotionally hurtful. And then there are those of us who have maintained a hard line with ourselves and not cheated, perhaps despite strong temptation and emotional anguish at times: giving a clean pass to those who submit to temptation suggests that *our* efforts aren't really worthwhile, are unnecessary, or even silly. Given the effort that goes into *not* cheating, this is as hurtful as anything else.

So I think it's difficult for a group of people from all these varying background to have a productive conversation on the topic...we're all too touchy for various good reasons...we all react emotionally from our own particular camps.

I think it would help if we all recognized *why* we have such strong emotional reactions to this topic, and recognized the validity of each person's pain and difficulty here...then we could listen and respond to one another a bit more constructively, and also be more sensitive in how we phrase our cries for help (recognizing that what you want help with may legitimately be sensitive for someone else).

[Jim30512]

If you are having sex with someone other then your spouse or significant other and they don't know........IT'S CHEATING!!!!!!!!

[12voltman59]

I do know that some of the guys that I have met with who are married--they are doing what they are doing "on the side" and in most if not all such cases, they are not telling their wives or girlfriends.

If I had my druthers, I would wish that they were open with their significant others, but when it comes to the relationships of others----it is really not the business of those outside of such a relationship to judge what goes on between a couple.

In the case of such guys I know--its not like we get together all that much-- when we do we take all due precautions to "play safe" and its not like we are having a deep emotional relationship that could threaten their marriage---I admittedly have started out with some of them to simply have sex, but after some time--we have developed friendships of sorts----I guess I do put the nature of these relationships as being "friends with benefits." Some of the guys say that doing this has actually in some cases improved their relationships and the sex they have with their wives since they do get some outside "relief" that helps take off some of the pressure they might put on their wives to have "sex on demand" and they have come to much more appreciate the sex they do have with their wives.

Not that what I am saying is true for all in this situation---its simply the experience I have had and some of my observations regarding the prime relationships of those guys who are my "buds with benefits."

[Northerner]

Hi Liz, I just wanted to point out that I *think* Northerner left out an important modifier in his post. I *think* (and I hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong) that he meant "what makes you think that the "vast majority" of people who request discretion in their profiles are cheaters?"

I remember your poll, and yes I agree that the majority of respondents said they cheated. The question that Northener seemed to be addressing, though, was whether (as Pasa claims) the expression "must be discreet" is really used by the vast majority of our members as code for "I'm cheating and I don't want my partner to find out."

Your poll would not shed light on that question.

Thank you Annika. *I* knew what I was trying to say :-) ...and luckily you did too, because I didn't state that very clearly.

[jem_is_bi]

I really do not care what you call it.
The siginficance of exclusivity to you and ,second, to your partner is what will determine it's meaning in your life.
First, even if your married, you do not own them or they own you. This means more than the physical you or them.
Even if your married, you have no right to expect them to live without sex or them to expect you to do that.
This is only, one item of a larger set of what you can not expect another to do for your ego to be satisfied.
Hopefully, you can expect them to love and support you and expect you to do the same for them.
With luck and much work, you are best friends, lovers and parents.

[BiDaveDtown]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.

I agree, they mean the same thing.

I have gotten PMs from women and men on this site who say how they have to be discreet.

They can't read my profile and think that even though my wife and I are monogamous and only have sex with each other that we're somehow going to have sex with these men and women either together or separately.


I do know that some of the guys that I have met with who are married--they are doing what they are doing "on the side" and in most if not all such cases, they are not telling their wives or girlfriends.

If I had my druthers, I would wish that they were open with their significant others, but when it comes to the relationships of others----it is really not the business of those outside of such a relationship to judge what goes on between a couple.

In the case of such guys I know--its not like we get together all that much-- when we do we take all due precautions to "play safe" and its not like we are having a deep emotional relationship that could threaten their marriage---I admittedly have started out with some of them to simply have sex, but after some time--we have developed friendships of sorts----I guess I do put the nature of these relationships as being "friends with benefits." Some of the guys say that doing this has actually in some cases improved their relationships and the sex they have with their wives since they do get some outside "relief" that helps take off some of the pressure they might put on their wives to have "sex on demand" and they have come to much more appreciate the sex they do have with their wives.

Not that what I am saying is true for all in this situation---its simply the experience I have had and some of my observations regarding the prime relationships of those guys who are my "buds with benefits."

That's nice that you're helping your fuck buddies cheat on their girlfriends and wives and pretending that you're somehow not helping someone lie and cheat on their partner, wife, girlfriend, or spouse.

[falcondfw]

Discreet can mean you have to be careful because your parents and friends might find out. It can also mean you are afraid because a spouse or significant other might find out.
Cheat means you have a spouse or significant other and do not have permission to play on the side.
Discreet can be cheating, but doesn't have to be.
Cheating is wrong. Period.

[adero08]

cheating...lying, its all the same. Why in the world would you think there was a difference?

[nudeorphic]

Paraphrasing:
"He without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus.

Nuf said.

I don't practice the Christian path but Jesus did say some true zingers.

Once in a while one has on this site, like welickit, a person or persons who decide to be judgemental and get on their high moral horse to cast sentence. Yet, they fail to see or observe their failings-and don't start saying that such people have none. Everyone has a failing, be it drugs, alcohol, food, chocolate, McDonalds's, smoking...you get the picture.

So if you're pure, with NO vice, then by all means cast judgement all you want.

[centillini]

I can only talk on my situation. I am bicurious, have been for longtime, biporn and shemales turn me on. I asked my wife after we watched biporn few times if she would like to try it. She said it is only a fantasy, dont want it to be real. I respect and love her, but my urge to try is overwhelming, so being clean and discreet is what will happen here.

[pepperjack]

To me, discrete is when you do not want the outside world to know and cheat is when you don't want your s/o to know.

The former is not bad, but the latter is bad. There are plenty of Bi couples, straight couples and mixed orientation couples out there that are discrete, but it does not mean that there is cheating going on. In our case, we both try to meet any of the guys that we are interested in, together. It does not always work out that way (when the wife is tired or ill), so the wife sends me off to do the meet and I return and report to her what my feelings are about the guy.

That is not cheating, but it is discrete.

Like I said, if the s/o does not know and is kept in the dark about anything even happening (like lying about it), then that is definitely cheating.

Thus far, I agree with this post as the most accurate. Just dumped a guy on another site when the word "discreet" triggered a red flag; sure enough, he was married. Told him I was up for it only if the wife knew. Had another M/B/M recently get pissy & indignant when I turned him down claiming I "should get used to it" because most of the bi men around here are married. Got to admit, he was probably right. I've been propositioned by more secretly bi men than singles, which are so hard to find. So, I've started cruising gay sites more to try & avoid that dilemma.:2cents:

[Pasadenacpl2]

Paraphrasing:
"He without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus.

Nuf said.

I don't practice the Christian path but Jesus did say some true zingers.

Once in a while one has on this site, like welickit, a person or persons who decide to be judgemental and get on their high moral horse to cast sentence. Yet, they fail to see or observe their failings-and don't start saying that such people have none. Everyone has a failing, be it drugs, alcohol, food, chocolate, McDonalds's, smoking...you get the picture.

So if you're pure, with NO vice, then by all means cast judgement all you want.

That admonishment by Christ was to prevent us from judging the worth of the person, as we are not qualified to do so. It was not intended for us to stop judging the actions of others. We can say "you are cheating, and that's wrong" without stepping into the role of God as the final arbiter of a soul.

It is perfectly ok for us, as a community, to say "cheating is wrong, and we won't tolerate it."

Pasa

[Dead Account]

I say this- is someone going to be hurt, including myself by it? Then I better be honest about it. I hurt someone once merely by the possibility, I know how horrible that must have been, so it's not for me. If its not 100 % honest, I will have no part in it.

[**Peg**]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but IMO sometimes HERE being discreet is not talking about the cheating you are doing. I'm with you Doogie, when I see 'discreet' in an ad I'm fairly certain the person is cheating.

I am discreet (and I LIKE it): I don't gossip, don't talk about my personal life here, no nude pics anywhere, am honourable and do my best to not offend anyone.

PS: to the person who called me an uptight asshole: you will NEVER have me, so enough with the compliments already.

:2cents: :bigrin:

[ontarioguy41]

Well nice one Welllickme..or it..haha
I would love to explain what I think but since you put this up to make people fight and feel bad I won't. You are weak and make all of us look stuipid.

Cheers

[want2havefun]

To some everything is merely black & white.
The same type often advocate a partner living in total sexual submission to the other, completely denying their own desires/needs. To such its either that or separate/divorce. There is no in between.
I have also noticed that those who attempt involve themselves in these personal/moral decisions of others when discussing a male often discard such notions if its a female. A 'morality' of convenience as it were.

Personally I dont see these things as merely black & white. Seeking platonic sexual pleasure is rather different than seeking a love relationship. I am fully aware that in some circumstances discarding a relationship to seek a 'better' sexual match isnt really the best course of action at all. I also acknowledge that living in submission to the will/desire/appetite of a partner may not be the best course either. Sometimes safely filling the gap may in fact be the best course of action. I am willing to allow others to make their own decisions w/o judgment or pontificating on the matter.

[æonpax]

~
I’ve been on the cheating side of life, being the “cheatee” on both sides of the fence. While it is seen as being morally and virtuously, reprehensible, it is (in my estimation), also a necessary evil, like prostitution, only without the immediate exchange of money. They say, it takes “two to tango” and so long as there is temptation, there will be cheating. It’s the “human condition"...people just have to deal with it.
~

[firtstella]

What's funny is that society has yet to catch on to the animalistic tendencies that are characteristic of us humans. Men (and some Women) have not only been desiring (and going after) other sexual partners since the beginning of time, they have also been seeking out male partners.

Please, stop judging ladies and gentlemen.:rolleyes: We've all have our own decisions to make and lord knows they dont ever seem to be getting easier. Many of us got married as (near) children for approval or convenience and weren't experienced (or mature) enough to understand how it would deprive us of natural wants and desires that would manifest later in life.

The troubling part is that Men have to sneak around to fulfill their urges, just as many homo/bisexuals feel like they have to sneak around to get what their bodies tell them they want. Societal ideas of human interaction and "the way things are supposed to be" are becoming very obsolete.

Modern day Marriage is presenting itself as a pathetic way to trap people into unhappy bounds, another means to control humans in nature (like religion) . A successful marriage should be nothing more than an extension of a viable support system in which partners are there to promote well being.

No offense, but the whole "love and intimacy has to be apart of sex" idea is more of a women thing (by nature). Men and women are very different; Us men could get an erection and place it in almost any hole without a drip of emotion, a primal urge to procreate. Women on the other hand are designed to find the most suitable partner to produce viable offspring.

Excuse my rant

[Long Duck Dong]

What's funny is that society has yet to catch on to the animalistic tendencies that are characteristic of us humans. Men (and some Women) have not only been desiring (and going after) other sexual partners since the beginning of time, they have also been seeking out male partners.

Please, stop judging ladies and gentlemen.:rolleyes: We've all have our own decisions to make and lord knows they dont ever seem to be getting easier. Many of us got married as (near) children for approval or convenience and weren't experienced (or mature) enough to understand how it would deprive us of natural wants and desires that would manifest later in life.

The troubling part is that Men have to sneak around to fulfill their urges, just as many homo/bisexuals feel like they have to sneak around to get what their bodies tell them they want. Societal ideas of human interaction and "the way things are supposed to be" are becoming very obsolete.

Modern day Marriage is presenting itself as a pathetic way to trap people into unhappy bounds, another means to control humans in nature (like religion) . A successful marriage should be nothing more than an extension of a viable support system in which partners are there to promote well being.

No offense, but the whole "love and intimacy has to be apart of sex" idea is more of a women thing (by nature). Men and women are very different; Us men could get an erection and place it in almost any hole without a drip of emotion, a primal urge to procreate. Women on the other hand are designed to find the most suitable partner to produce viable offspring.

Excuse my rant

curious,... is that expressed as a bisexual male talking to females.... or a person sharing a understanding of their viewpoint of marriage...... cos it reads the same way as I have seen so many bisexual males post..........

even heterosexual and homosexual male and female posters have a different way of seeing marriage.... and I can not help but wonder why it is that its generally bisexual males that have such a view of marriage...... and not bisexual females........

[want2havefun]

No offense, but the whole "love and intimacy has to be apart of sex" idea is more of a women thing (by nature). Men and women are very different...

Although I do not concur with your views on marriage, this part is true.

I might word it this way, men are turned on by visual aspects, just the activity itself, we are are quite capable of engaging in sex in much the same fashion as we would a round of golf, or other activity we enjoy. We dont require a love or emotional component. We just like to get off, and do so frequently. We are capable of a love/emotion driven connection, we just dont require it.

Women generally require an emotional aspect, they are not as much turned on by what they see/do as what they feel. Women tend to want sexual activity with someone they feel connected to. Generally women are not nearly as capable of having an 'NSA' sexual arrangement as men. Even when they say that such is desired all of that usually evolves or changes once sex takes place.

These factors are not absolute, their are some men who intertwine emotion with any sexual activity, and some women who are able to have NSA relations but in my experience these factors are true an overwhelming amount of the time.

In the str8 world the overwhelming majority of swinging activity among couples is suggested and groomed by the male.
In the bisexual world the ratio of men seeking NSA 'fun' is overwhelming compared to women seeking the same.
These are not homo/hetro/bi/gay factors...these are human factors related to gender differences.

[want2havefun]

To go a step further...

In married couples if/when there is a serious sexual imbalance the reasons and methods for seeking 'satisfaction' elsewhere generally differ.

Women will generally become involved in an infatuation/emotional 'love affair' with someone they perceive will sexually fulfill them. They will seek an emotional connection with another person.

Men will simply seek some 'side action' content to remain with their partner for all the other love/emotion etc reasons and good qualities they see in their spouse. They will seek only some fun/action/release.

These factors are why often we see men attempt to mislead women emotionally.

Again, nothing is absolutely 100% applicable to all, there is always some exception, but in my friendships over the years, and in my own experience, I have seen this play out many many times....so far always in about the same manner.

[firtstella]

curious,... is that expressed as a bisexual male talking to females.... or a person sharing a understanding of their viewpoint of marriage...... cos it reads the same way as I have seen so many bisexual males post..........

even heterosexual and homosexual male and female posters have a different way of seeing marriage.... and I can not help but wonder why it is that its generally bisexual males that have such a view of marriage...... and not bisexual females........

Its expressed as a human giving reason to why our natural instincts rarely ever add up to what many would consider the moral standard.

I often want to scream at my boss. I dont because it may get me fired....unfortunately, not doing so doesn't make the urge go away. But I understand the consequences of doing so. Marriage should not have to be the same.....

If most of us knew that marriage had much more to do with building a support system for yourself (and others) and less to do with "love and infatuation", we probably wouldn't have jumped the broom.

Im not saying that most marriages are flawed and bound for unhappiness. However, the concept is a misleading one and does not deliver what it pretends to (overflowing love and attention and a consistent willing sexual partner). And even more it fails to uplift the well known natural tendencies of men to have multiple sex partners as a means to procreate.

It presents itself as a "man-made" idea, not one sent down from Mother Nature. And I am not surprised that men are finding other (more "indecent") ways to taste penis/vagina. Nothing new with us. We've been this way since the beginning of time.

The more intelligent women understand this and do not allow this to alter their own tendencies (to be nurturer, raise wonderful human beings, and become the more emotionally adept of the 2 genders).

[drugstore cowboy]

Its expressed as a human giving reason to why our natural instincts rarely ever add up to what many would consider the moral standard.

I often want to scream at my boss. I dont because it may get me fired....unfortunately, not doing so doesn't make the urge go away. But I understand the consequences of doing so. Marriage should not have to be the same.....

If most of us knew that marriage had much more to do with building a support system for yourself (and others) and less to do with "love and infatuation", we probably wouldn't have jumped the broom.

Im not saying that most marriages are flawed and bound for unhappiness. However, the concept is a misleading one and does not deliver what it pretends to (overflowing love and attention and a consistent willing sexual partner). And even more it fails to uplift the well known natural tendencies of men to have multiple sex partners as a means to procreate.

It presents itself as a "man-made" idea, not one sent down from Mother Nature. And I am not surprised that men are finding other (more "indecent") ways to taste penis/vagina. Nothing new with us. We've been this way since the beginning of time.

The more intelligent women understand this and do not allow this to alter their own tendencies (to be nurturer, raise wonderful human beings, and become the more emotionally adept of the 2 genders).

It's entirely possible for someone that's bisexual to be monogamous when they're with a partner of the opposite gender or same gender.

Most bisexuals actually are monogamous and it doesn't matter if they are partnered with the opposite gender or same gender.

I'm in an open relationship now with my husband but in the past I have been completely monogamous and faithful with men and women who I was in relationships with and they were monogamous as well.

Not all women want to nurture, have children, or allow or turn a blind eye to their male partner's cheating while he expects her to be completely faithful and monogamous.

If you're just going to cheat on a spouse or someone who you love and you're not in an open relationship or can't discuss having an open relationship or open marriage with your spouse or partner, why even get married at all?

[SabrinasSlave]

Some of this has been posted, but every single person on this site has lied to a sex partner, SO, family member, etc.. You can deny it if you like, but everyone lies. And we lie a LOT more than we even credit ourselves for - including those little lies that "no one will be harmed by" and "are for their own good - I'm really protecting them by not telling them what I know."

People who look down on others for lying are hypocrites, pure and simple. Everyone has secrets they don't want others to know.

Except me, of course. ;)

We are one of the few couples out there (it seems) that don't care about and don't judge others' situations. If it works out and we are friends or even sex partners, fine. If not, fine too. We will play with those who are compatible and we won't play with those who aren't.

Life is too short to be worried about other people's problems. I have enough of my own.

And IMO there is wayyyyy too much fake outrage by people being offended by "other peoples" transgressions when they can't even fix (or even admit) their own.

Look in the mirror first, bunky.

[elian]

If I have learned anything from mindless American "reality" TV shows I think "cheating" is when you get caught ..

[pole_smoker]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.


There is no difference. I will never cease to be amazed at some peoples capacity to rationalize their behavior.

Agreed. When my husband and I were single we never got with women or men who were married and looking to cheat. Mainly because if the person is cheating and lying on their partner/husband/wife they can't be trusted at all. When someone says they have to be discreet that's nothing but a synonym for how they want to cheat on their wife/husband/partner.

[charles-smythe]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses....there was a girl that I dearly...before we moved in together she explained to me that 1 man could not satisfy her sexually...if we moved in together it would be with the understanding that there would be other men...BUT she would be discreet & never embarrass me...she was discreet...not a cheater...

[pole_smoker]

...there was a girl that I dearly...before we moved in together she explained to me that 1 man could not satisfy her sexually...if we moved in together it would be with the understanding that there would be other men...BUT she would be discreet & never embarrass me...she was discreet...not a cheater...
That's more of a "don't ask, don't tell" type of cheating, or where one person allows the other partner to cheat or makes up excuses for it.

[PeninAZ]

As I understand such terms:
Cheating is if there is a partner who is does not or would not approve of their lover's sexual conduct with another individual outside relationship. Discreet is simply low profile, your don't want you parents to know, your siblings, your friends, even your rightful partner. Discreet can be interchangable with cheating, but it is not exclusively the same, as one can be single, but would still appreciate the shush on what goes on between said single and discreet associate. Again: Cheating is a break of loyalty in a committed relationship, discreet can be, but is not solely bound in such a situation.

[pole_smoker]

As I understand such terms:
Cheating is if there is a partner who is does not or would not approve of their lover's sexual conduct with another individual outside relationship. Discreet is simply low profile, your don't want you parents to know, your siblings, your friends, even your rightful partner. Discreet can be interchangable with cheating, but it is not exclusively the same, as one can be single, but would still appreciate the shush on what goes on between said single and discreet associate. Again: Cheating is a break of loyalty in a committed relationship, discreet can be, but is not solely bound in such a situation.
In personal ads when someone says they have to be "discreet" it means they're looking to cheat, and it doesn't necessarily mean being closeted and not open or out as bisexual or gay/lesbian like you posted.

[PeninAZ]

In personal ads when someone says they have to be "discreet" it means they're looking to cheat, and it doesn't necessarily mean being closeted and not open or out as bisexual or gay/lesbian like you posted.

Well I'm not well versed in vocab, thank you for the correction. That's just been my first impression.

[tenni]

Well I'm not well versed in vocab, thank you for the correction. That's just been my first impression.

Not necessarily so. A person who puts "discreet" does not mean that they are cheating on a partner. It can simply mean that they do not wish their sex practices advertised. Lots of single bisexuals post with the term discreet and are not cheating on anyone.

It is true that people who are partnered regardless of their sexuality and cheat do want it kept private and quiet. Discreet is not a synonym for cheat.

[charles-smythe]

Not necessarily so. A person who puts "discreet" does not mean that they are cheating on a partner. It can simply mean that they do not wish their sex practices advertised. Lots of single bisexuals post with the term discreet and are not cheating on anyone.

It is true that people who are partnered regardless of their sexuality and cheat do want it kept private and quiet. Discreet is not a synonym for cheat....for once we agree...

[PeninAZ]

Not necessarily so. A person who puts "discreet" does not mean that they are cheating on a partner. It can simply mean that they do not wish their sex practices advertised. Lots of single bisexuals post with the term discreet and are not cheating on anyone.

It is true that people who are partnered regardless of their sexuality and cheat do want it kept private and quiet. Discreet is not a synonym for cheat.

Oh, as I figured. The difference is just so intuitive.

[BiPantylover]

Well put Fred

[pole_smoker]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.
I agree with you. When someone says they have to be "discreet" that means they want to cheat, are on the down low/closeted, and want to cheat and lie to a partner or spouse. Not cool, and these people can't be trusted.

[Cutiliae]

I would never cheat on my wife with another woman because I have what I need at home and do not desire any other women. However, I like to suck cock and she would never understand that so it must remain hidden. I don't consider it "cheating" when I suck a man's cock. The man I service is also married and his wife would not tolerate him getting a blowjob from me. So, we are both discreet about it. And, if I ever got caught....well, I have been divorced before.

[pole_smoker]

I would never cheat on my wife with another woman because I have what I need at home and do not desire any other women. However, I like to suck cock and she would never understand that so it must remain hidden. I don't consider it "cheating" when I suck a man's cock. The man I service is also married and his wife would not tolerate him getting a blowjob from me. So, we are both discreet about it. And, if I ever got caught....well, I have been divorced before.
You and the guy who you cheat on your wife with are both liars and cheats. You're also homophobic, bigoted, have lots of internalized biphobia/homophobia, but yet like to put on women's clothing in secret LOL. :rolleyes:

You may think that this guy you're cheating on your wife with doesn't get with other guys or TVs/CDs but he does.

[Cutiliae]

You and the guy who you cheat on your wife with are both liars and cheats. You're also homophobic, bigoted, have lots of internalized biphobia/homophobia, but yet like to put on women's clothing in secret LOL. :rolleyes:

You may think that this guy you're cheating on your wife with doesn't get with other guys or TVs/CDs but he does.


Fuck it, were are having fun. I'm not sure what else he does and he is not sure of what else I do. That is of no concern to me. I just would not want it to get out that I'm bi. I would be humiliated. That is no kind of legacy.

[pole_smoker]

Fuck it, were are having fun. I'm not sure what else he does and he is not sure of what else I do. That is of no concern to me. I just would not want it to get out that I'm bi. I would be humiliated. That is no kind of legacy.
Why would you be humiliated if people knew you are bisexual?

[charles-smythe]

Why would you be humiliated if people knew you are bisexual? …business reasons…

[Cutiliae]

Why would you be humiliated if people knew you are bisexual?

I may run for public office someday.

[pole_smoker]

I may run for public office someday.
If you're actually serious about that just come out as bisexual and a CD/TV before you run, since otherwise it will be found out.

Plus there have been out bisexual politicians who have ran and won both in the United States, and worldwide. No idea about the CD/TV thing but I'm sure there are people in high political power positions who are into that.

[elmwood7]

There was a city counsel member here a few years ago who was an open TG who wore women's clothes and shoes to counsel meetings.

[Melody Dean]

If you're actually serious about that just come out as bisexual and a CD/TV before you run, since otherwise it will be found out.

Plus there have been out bisexual politicians who have ran and won both in the United States, and worldwide. No idea about the CD/TV thing but I'm sure there are people in high political power positions who are into that.

I actually agree with Pole on that one.

[Melody Dean]

Not necessarily so. A person who puts "discreet" does not mean that they are cheating on a partner. It can simply mean that they do not wish their sex practices advertised. Lots of single bisexuals post with the term discreet and are not cheating on anyone.

It is true that people who are partnered regardless of their sexuality and cheat do want it kept private and quiet. Discreet is not a synonym for cheat.

Agreed.

And sometimes it's not because they don't want people to know their sexual orientation either. I once hooked up with a single straight guy who was in town on a business trip. His employer frowned upon him having a guest in his room. Hence, why he wanted to keep it discreet.

[tenni]

Agreed.

And sometimes it's not because they don't want people to know their sexual orientation either. I once hooked up with a single straight guy who was in town on a business trip. His employer frowned upon him having a guest in his room. Hence, why he wanted to keep it discreet.

Good point!

Beyond that I refer to a famous Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau who more than forty years ago stated that the government had no business in the bedrooms of the nation. This was a fore runner in attitude and values that lead to such critical events as same sex marriage. If the government has no business then it is less so for individuals to demand or even want to know what a person does sexually.

There is a belief held by some bisexuals that what a person does in their bedroom is no one else's business. People who react with disgust, anger or demand that someone has the right to know what sexual act or is attracted to both men and women are really infringing of that person's right to freedom of sexual expression. As long as all involved are consenting adults and no one is hurt, it is none of anyone else's business.

My province not only has a woman Premier but she is a lesbian. No where during the election was her sexuality held up to ridicule. Her wife was not put foreward as part of her campaign nor was she hidden. No where during the election campaign was it dragged out that Kathlynn Wynne was a divorced woman with children and remarried to a woman. Her adult children lived their own lives and were not part of her campaign. They may have been on the stage after winning the election but the media never focused or mentioned that. In a lot of heterosexuals election campaigns in other countries, the wife of a heterosexual is put forth as part of the male heterosexual's "family" values campaign. "Look we are good decent people as we are married heteros etc."

When it was relevant, it was reported that she had adult children. You can see in her legislation that she and her government are dealing with sexual and body education issues much firmer than previous hetero male Premiers did. Still today, no media has given out her wife's sexual history out to the public.

Discretion should understood as having so much more to do with equal individual rights and less to do with shame when we think about this word discretion.

[Country Guy]

In the US, her orientation would have been the ONLY issue. Her spouse and children would have been front and center in the news coverage.
All the political issues would have been secondary.
That's the difference between US and Canada

[tenni]

Country Guy
I can see that happening and smearing does happen in Canadian politics. There has always been a subtle difference between US and Canadian politics. Sex in politics generally is of less concern to the Canadian electorate. Even sex scandals are not as emphasized here. There is a tendency for Canadian media to leave personal aspect out of the news but not always.

Trust me, we have a Conservative party and if they thought that they could win votes by attacking her sexuality, they would with glee. The Federal Conservatives have a core base of right winged like that group in the Republican party. The provincial Conservatives tried to defeat her on fiscal scandal rather than sexual orientation scandal. People in Ontario did not listen to the Conservatives attempt to make a fiscal scandal stick. Instead ciizens voted even a larger Liberal MPP's than the previous election. Go figure.

This is not to write that homophobia and biphobia does not exist in pockets of Ontario. It just doesn't do bigots a lot of support if they are very open and public with the statements etc. Recently, I had a video installation on kissing between different ages, genders, and inter racial couples. There was no one protesting publicly. Someone did spit on the window of the installation and it froze on the window. That was discreet lol The question that I have was the bigot protesting same gender kissing? inter racial kissing? or they just didn't like my work..lol

[pole_smoker]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.

That's very true the term discreet means the person is cheating on a spouse or partner and is a liar.

[void()]

There is a belief held by some bisexuals that what a person does in their bedroom is no one else's business. People who react with disgust, anger or demand that someone has the right to know what sexual act or is attracted to both men and women are really infringing of that person's right to freedom of sexual expression. As long as all involved are consenting adults and no one is hurt, it is none of anyone else's business.

Sometimes, you do good. Sometimes, you do exceptionally good. Thank you. :)

[j4u42]

Let me throw this out there, is denying a partner the physical joys of a relationship after many years, cheating them out of one of life's greatest pleasures? Perhaps that is just another example of "cheating" and idk justifiable or not as a solution.

[void()]

Let me throw this out there, is denying a partner the physical joys of a relationship after many years, cheating them out of one of life's greatest pleasures? Perhaps that is just another example of "cheating" and idk justifiable or not as a solution.

This is one example of why I now refrain judging those who do cheat. Ultimately, I am not aware of their situation and
they may face this for example. I do not cheat. That does not say everyone else must not cheat. I will to best of my
knowledge not engage with someone I know is cheating. Sorry, I want no part in any drama with cheating.

Even the ones who "well, the SO knows but doesn't know", to me are off limits. That is merely a personal choice.
Got enough adversity in being me, don't need extra. That doesn't mean I am judging the person. In fact it is me
judging myself. I'm not capable of handling that situation. If you can do it, more power to you.

[Bimmga]

We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.

As others have said, their is no difference. If you are on the DL, you are cheating. Think of it this way: every cheating spouce is "discreet" when he/she is hooking up with a heterosexual lover.

However, I always use "discreet" to mean that what a guy and I do is just between the two of us and that l'm into PDAs, gay club running or the scene in general. Just because I am out to my wife and have her blessings, this doesn't mean I am (or want too be ) out to everyone. Outing myself could have serious ramifications on both my and her careers.

[Annika L]

Think of it this way: every cheating spouce is "discreet" when he/she is hooking up with a heterosexual lover.


Let me throw this out there, is denying a partner the physical joys of a relationship after many years, cheating them out of one of life's greatest pleasures? Perhaps that is just another example of "cheating" and idk justifiable or not as a solution.

I think Bimmga says it well...a *smart* cheater exercises discretion when cheating. So yeah, it's discreet. But it's still also cheating.

But I also take j4u42's point well, and like void, tend not to rush to *judge* cheating. I agree that it is not nice for a spouse to deny sex to a partner AND deny that partner the right to seek sex elsewhere...I find that selfish and controlling, ultimately disrespectful. But to me, cheating in response to disrespect is *understandable* cheating, but no less cheating. To me, the right approach would be to say, "look, I'd have sex with you if I could, if you'd enjoy that...but you won't...either give me the right to seek sexual fulfillment elsewhere, or let's end this relationship, because your demands are unfair." And the chips would then fall as they may.

But bottom line for me on the word "cheating" is that "cheating" is breaking/not honoring an agreement (implicit or explicit). If you're having sex that a spouse did not agree to, then whether or not you like the word, you are cheating.

[pole_smoker]

Let me throw this out there, is denying a partner the physical joys of a relationship after many years, cheating them out of one of life's greatest pleasures? Perhaps that is just another example of "cheating" and idk justifiable or not as a solution.

LMAO!!! Nobody "denies" anyone of the physical joys of a relationship, and if someone's in a sexless relationship or marriage for years or even decades then they are choosing to stay in this unhealthy relationship instead of communicating, actually coming out to their partner/spouse, or getting a divorce before they decide that they somehow have the "right" or "excuse" to cheat. :rolleyes: People who cheat and lie to their partner or spouse are chickenshit cowards who should not be married or in a relationship at all. ;) :rolleyes:

[pole_smoker]

As others have said, their is no difference. If you are on the DL, you are cheating. Think of it this way: every cheating spouce is "discreet" when he/she is hooking up with a heterosexual lover.

However, I always use "discreet" to mean that what a guy and I do is just between the two of us and that l'm into PDAs, gay club running or the scene in general. Just because I am out to my wife and have her blessings, this doesn't mean I am (or want too be ) out to everyone. Outing myself could have serious ramifications on both my and her careers.

Being out as bisexual would not have serious ramifications for your "wife" or your careers. It's going to be 2016 soon, and nobody cares about this here in the United States if you're LGBT and out, or if you're LGBT and have a career whatever it is.

[Bimmga]

Being out as bisexual would not have serious ramifications for your "wife" or your careers. It's going to be 2016 soon, and nobody cares about this here in the United States if you're LGBT and out, or if you're LGBT and have a career whatever it is.

youve been watching too much TV and believing evertything the media tells you. Gays and bis ARE NOT a protected class in the US. A homophobic born-againer would fire you in a minute if he discovered you were bi. We are making progress, but there are still legions of people who hate you for who you are and will hurt you if they can. It happens every single day. If what I'm saying isn't true, LGBT advocacy groups would have folded their tents and gone home by now.

[sysper]

youve been watching too much TV and believing evertything the media tells you. Gays and bis ARE NOT a protected class in the US. A homophobic born-againer would fire you in a minute if he discovered you were bi. We are making progress, but there are still legions of people who hate you for who you are and will hurt you if they can. It happens every single day. If what I'm saying isn't true, LGBT advocacy groups would have folded their tents and gone home by now.
i hate to agree with u.......alot of people in the us still have a problem with lgbt. some states still don't even have laws against descrimination against lgbt. we are making progress hopefully very soon it will just be a very few people noone hardly hears from. but we can't even overcome racism much less homophobia. it is gonna be 2016 soon we should all be over it & we are better off than we were years ago, at least we got gay marriage. but we still got so far to go & honestly i'm not hopefull.

[pepperjack]

There's nothing wrong with loving your privacy! Doesn't necessarily mean you're a cheater. We're living in an intrusive, digital age where it's become the exception instead of the norm. Whatever became of the Constitutional guarantee of " a reasonable expectation of privacy ? " Human nature, as despicable as it is at times....will to this day continue to use your private moments against you !

[Coastocoast]

I am discreet, I am not a cheater there. There is nobody at home to tell first, I am cheating on nobody, what I personally do is my own business and I am putting no one at risk. I have never cheated on a partner, I have broken up with people first when I decided that the relationship was not fulfilling enough to stay with the person I was with. Why do I consider myself discreet? In my case this would be a career killer, a silent killer that I have seen it where I work. There is no legal recourse when they select others and bypass you consistently year after year, even though everyone knows what is happening, it is subjective with no proof. There is no reason for me to tell the world my business so long as nobody is at risk due to my choices. I have the right to privacy and cherish it.

[pole_smoker]

youve been watching too much TV and believing evertything the media tells you. Gays and bis ARE NOT a protected class in the US. A homophobic born-againer would fire you in a minute if he discovered you were bi. We are making progress, but there are still legions of people who hate you for who you are and will hurt you if they can. It happens every single day. If what I'm saying isn't true, LGBT advocacy groups would have folded their tents and gone home by now.

LMAO No I don't watch too much TV. :rolleyes: I'm too busy living in reality. If you get fired or discriminated against in your job because you're bisexual, gay, etc. then you can sue and win and get money. FYI, not all people who are Christian even the 'born again' type are homophobic or will fire or discriminate against people who are LGBT from their jobs if they are their boss.

We know a bisexual man who is married to another man that has a born again Christian boss and she knows all about how he and his husband are bisexual and is fine with it.

This is not the 1960s or early 1970s; but a lot of people here who are closeted seem to think that it still is. ;) :rolleyes:

[pepperjack]

LMAO No I don't watch too much TV. :rolleyes: I'm too busy living in reality. If you get fired or discriminated against in your job because you're bisexual, gay, etc. then you can sue and win and get money. FYI, not all people who are Christian even the 'born again' type are homophobic or will fire or discriminate against people who are LGBT from their jobs if they are their boss.

We know a bisexual man who is married to another man that has a born again Christian boss and she knows all about how he and his husband are bisexual and is fine with it.

This is not the 1960s or early 1970s; but a lot of people here who are closeted seem to think that it still is. ;) :rolleyes:


No, it's not the 60's but you're definitely still living in The Twilight Zone ! :smilies15

[darkeyes]

The guy is a clown Pep... a very unfunny nasty clown.. he hasnt a clue what discreet means.Mind u he hasn't a clue what owt means...;). I love twiglets btw... :impleased
No, it's not the 60's but you're definitely still living in The Twilight Zone ! :smilies15

[pepperjack]

The guy is a clown Pep... a very unfunny nasty clown.. he hasnt a clue what discreet means.Mind u he hasn't a clue what owt means...;). I love twiglets btw... :impleased

I think he belongs somewhere in this line up : http://heavy.com/comedy/2012/10/the-20-creepiest-clowns/

[Superbtm53]

I am discreet. But I'm not a cheat. I've been single for a few years, aside from dating a few people here and there. Right now is the closest I've been to actually being in a relationship, and I'm seeing 2 guys on a regular basis, and they know about one another. One is divorced, the other is married, and his wife not only knows about it, but she encourages it. She has actually texted me to come and take him off her hands for awhile because he was being "annoying." The only people who know are the ones who are involved (my friend's wife has gotten involved on occasion). I am discreet because I believe that it is none of anyone's business what I do in the bedroom. Also, I live in a pretty rural area at the moment, and as hard as it is for some people to believe or accept, it can have negative consequences on your job and overall well being in general. There are some people in my neighborhood, let alone my town who would not think twice about doing very, very bad things if they knew someone was gay or bi.

So there's that.

[void()]

We are making progress, but there are still legions
of people who hate you for who you are and will hurt you if they can. It
happens every single day. If what I'm saying isn't true, LGBT advocacy
groups would have folded their tents and gone home by now.

Direct, truthful what you say. If bisexuals, homosexuals, transsexuals
were safe there would be need of advocacy ergo, no advocacy would exist.
Advocacy still exists, ergo, we are still not safe. Clear logic in that.
It's an if, then, else statement.

if X
then Y
else no X


There's nothing wrong with loving your privacy!
Doesn't necessarily mean you're a cheater. We're living in an intrusive,
digital age where it's become the exception instead of the norm.
Whatever became of the Constitutional guarantee of " a reasonable
expectation of privacy ? " Human nature, as despicable as it is at
times....will to this day continue to use your private moments against
you !

Not only against the individual, they will come after those the
individual loves. This did and still happens. I will speak briefly using
controversial language, I do so to illustrate a point and not to be
malicious of others.

A white woman in the deep Southern U.S., could become involved with a
black man. Not only would the black man be attacked for being perceived
as perverting the woman, she would be attacked and deemed a nigger
lover. Heck, they may kill them both for the grounds they consider it
unnatural. Then, they could go after the families of this couple. "Mr.
& Mrs. Smith, you know your gal Suzy was a nigger lover? How you raise
such a child? We string you up too."

There are many places where such prejudice exists. It is not only
hate regarding what your skin color is, it is hate even if you think
differently. Want a clear example of that? Look at what Christianity
did to those they dubbed heretics, and used that word in a disparaging
manner. All the word heretic means from the original Greek & Latin is,
someone has a different way of thinking / opinion. The Church began
codifying under Constantine and did not want Christianity seen as a
multi-faceted belief, no, they wanted it all as the Holy Roman Catholic
Church and its brand of Christianity, only. So, heretics were put to
death as accused witches, or simply because someone pointed a finger.

My point is, hate has, does continue to happen. We ALL need to realize
there is NOTHING wrong in being different. Until we ALL do that, hate
will continue to destroy us ALL. And yes, this is why some of us value
having privacy. Ultimately, does it matter if I fuck a man or woman
tonight, next Tuesday? If we both agreed and enjoyed ourselves, I don't
think so. Yet society and hate think otherwise. Guess I'll be a heretic
eternally.

Apologies again for the controversial language used. Hopefully it
serves/d only the purpose intended in this context alone.

[sysper]

I think he belongs somewhere in this line up : http://heavy.com/comedy/2012/10/the-20-creepiest-clowns/
the 1st clown was creepy but i gotta admit kinda sexy in a way too.......i also liked the last clown though i wasn't really looking at the creepy face :)