Laura Bush: too little, too late.

[FalconAngel]

Interesting little read.

Is it a case too little too late or something else?

http://www.care2.com/causes/civil-rights/blog/laura-bush-comes-out-as-pro-choice-and-pro-gay-marriage/#comment-697325

Laura Bush Comes Out Pro-Choice and Pro-Gay Marriage

Promoting her autobiography on CNN this week, former first lady Laura Bush told Larry King that she disagreed with her husband George Bush on gay marriage and abortion. In a thoughtful and measured response she went on to say that she believed gay marriage was a generational issue and that, in time, she thought marriage equality would be a reality.

On pro-choice and abortion issues, she said that abortion should stay legal "for medical reasons and other reasons."

In her book, Spoken From the Heart, she reveals that, during the run up to the 2004 election, she urged her husband not to make gay marriage a prominent part of his campaign given the "social issue" it had become, writing:

“Before the election season had unfolded, I had talked to George about not making gay marriage a significant issue. We have, I reminded him, a number of close friends who are gay or whose children are gay. But at that moment I could never have imagined what path this issue would take and where it would lead.”

Bush went on to throw his support behind a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. The measured failed in the U.S. Senate.

Speaking on behalf of the Human Rights Campaign, Michael Cole remarked on the Larry King interview: "When the Right-wing was using same-sex couples as election year pawns we would have welcomed support from the first lady. Nevertheless, her speaking out now for marriage equality shows that more and more Americans realize all families need the same rights and protections."

Terry O'Neill, president of the National Organization for Women, commented in a similar way, saying: "Every first lady has to make choices on what they will take a public stance on, and she is not the elected official. But I am thrilled she is now going public with her views."

What do you think? Is this advocacy too late to matter, or a welcome declaration?

[tenni]

I don't think that it is too late at all. It will have some weight. Now if Mrs. Cheney spoke out in favour that would be even more relevant. I think that I heard that Dick Cheney has spoken out more positively since he left office about same sex relationships.

Under the circumstances, it was not L Bush's role to contradict her husband publicly. No spouse, (male or female) of an elected official should really comment publicly when they disagree with the elected partner on such controversial matters. As the comment wrote, the unelected spouse has not been elected and there is too much pressure comments made about the spouses of elected officials. What she doesn't say is did she make any comment to Bush behind closed doors after the race began? She seemed to stop at the point where he began running.

[TwylaTwobits]

I can imagine there are a lot of conversations that take place between elected officials and their spouses in private and that some of those have an effect on how the politician votes. But the point was raised, the spouse wasn't elected. Laura Bush coming out in favor of equal marriage for all is not something that is too little, too late. To some Republicans, George W. Bush (restrains self mightily), is almost perfection. Having his wife come out and state that she supported gay marriage and reminding him of how many gay friends they had, it will shake them. And after it shakes them, they will start thinking. How many people around GWB did I meet? How many were gay? Were they different? No. Maybe it's not such a big deal after all.

[TaylorMade]

I can imagine there are a lot of conversations that take place between elected officials and their spouses in private and that some of those have an effect on how the politician votes. But the point was raised, the spouse wasn't elected. Laura Bush coming out in favor of equal marriage for all is not something that is too little, too late. To some Republicans, George W. Bush (restrains self mightily), is almost perfection. Having his wife come out and state that she supported gay marriage and reminding him of how many gay friends they had, it will shake them. And after it shakes them, they will start thinking. How many people around GWB did I meet? How many were gay? Were they different? No. Maybe it's not such a big deal after all.

Well, actually among conservatives, another issue is coming up. . . more people are pushing for the revocation of DADT. Story ---- Here (http://www.gallup.com/poll/127904/Broad-Steady-Support-Openly-Gay-Service-Members.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=All+Gallup+Headlines+-+Government+-+Military+-+National+Defense+-+Politics+-+Same-Sex+Relations+-+USA).

BUT... this is also interesting.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/1spuxg96iuwh0qhjethgba.gif

Support for revoking DADT has FALLEN among liberals. Throw in Pelosi dragging her feet... and Kagan's wishy-washy position on gay marriage- -something's not quite as it seems.

Just saying.


*Taylor*

[Pasadenacpl2]

To some Republicans, George W. Bush (restrains self mightily), is almost perfection.

I've been a life-long Republican. I am a Conservative. I have known people at many levels of the RNC from national to state to local. I go to party meetings, and I am involved. I have never, not once, heard anyone speak of GWB in this way.

He was an easier pill to swallow than anything the left put up. That's about it. We defended him not because of who he was, but because the left became rabid and venomous. That's a far cry from thinking GWB was anything other than what he was, an average president, at best.

Just to clarify, since so few on this board have the view from the right.

Pasa

[TaylorMade]

This is true, and it's not just about politics... sometimes the more everyone else hates something you like or believe in, you end up liking it even more just to piss people off. I'm sure many in here would testify to that fact in reference to a their first same sex or even hetro relationship. Something in the human psyche LOVES some "me-against-the-world, I -wish-a-motherfucker-would!" type stuff.

My mom hates my favorite perfume (http://www.sephora.com/browse/product.jhtml?id=P44903). I have the rollerball and the hair perfume. I just got the medium sized eau de toilette, cause I just love this shit. :)


*Taylor*

[MarieDelta]

Well, actually among conservatives, another issue is coming up. . . more people are pushing for the revocation of DADT. Story ---- Here (http://www.gallup.com/poll/127904/Broad-Steady-Support-Openly-Gay-Service-Members.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=All+Gallup+Headlines+-+Government+-+Military+-+National+Defense+-+Politics+-+Same-Sex+Relations+-+USA).

BUT... this is also interesting.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/1spuxg96iuwh0qhjethgba.gif

Support for revoking DADT has FALLEN among liberals. Throw in Pelosi dragging her feet... and Kagan's wishy-washy position on gay marriage- -something's not quite as it seems.

Just saying.


*Taylor*

Not to mention Joe Solmonese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Solmonese) (HRC President) and his backstabing ways.

I am disgusted past belief with the whole political process. Conservative, liberal, moderate- the only thing they care about is MONEY...

An honest politician is the one who stays bought.

News as of this morning is that (some) republicans arent going to support ENDA that includes gender identity protection. It's just "too extreme."



“If you include transgender rights, I think that just pushes the envelope too far,’’ said Representative John Campbell of California, a Republican who voted for Frank’s bill in 2007. “It is seen by the populace as a very extreme procedure.’’

so what is the point of even trying?

Explain to me again, the point of being a US citizen?

[TaylorMade]

The point? I'm not interested in having to buy winter clothes all over again and potentially learn another language. :p

And I don't want to move any further from people I like. I'm already too damn far, I don't need to make it worse.:tong:

*Taylor*

[MarieDelta]

The point? I'm not interested in having to buy winter clothes all over again and potentially learn another language. :p

And I don't want to move any further from people I like. I'm already too damn far, I don't need to make it worse.:tong:

*Taylor*

I dunno if that cuts the mustard any more...

Y'know SOME countries pay for SRS?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8txjAYMWL5k/S3d6bwnj1dI/AAAAAAAAC4E/9BzPJn5FlYE/s400/second_class_citizen_button-p145945928071796774t5sj_400.jpg

[bigbadmax]

I've been a life-long Republican. I am a Conservative. I have known people at many levels of the RNC from national to state to local. I go to party meetings, and I am involved. I have never, not once, heard anyone speak of GWB in this way.

He was an easier pill to swallow than anything the left put up. That's about it. We defended him not because of who he was, but because the left became rabid and venomous. That's a far cry from thinking GWB was anything other than what he was, an average president, at best.

Just to clarify, since so few on this board have the view from the right.

Pasa

In the UK we tend to vote by how our parents did, of course it is all personal choice. This election just past week, shows that we are moving more and more toward the USA by voting for personalities rather than political parties.....

That said, we still vote for the party not the person leading it. Politics and religion are the two most controversial topics...you will never please all the people...

Even today a Labour politician was stabbed...personally i think this is a bit harsh...if you dont like em...dont vote for them!

[TaylorMade]

I dunno if that cuts the mustard any more...

Y'know SOME countries pay for SRS?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8txjAYMWL5k/S3d6bwnj1dI/AAAAAAAAC4E/9BzPJn5FlYE/s400/second_class_citizen_button-p145945928071796774t5sj_400.jpg


But when you consider the debt that we are in . . .is that feasible in the long run? Not to put anyone in particular on the back burner, but the last 8-and-not-much-change has bled us all dry.

I almost don't want to bother going to college because. . . It's not worth it. I bet with sharp saving I'd probably make better of myself if I put up 10 years of dancing.

*Taylor*

[MarieDelta]

But when you consider the debt that we are in . . .is that feasible in the long run? Not to put anyone in particular on the back burner, but the last 8-and-not-much-change has bled us all dry.

I almost don't want to bother going to college because. . . It's not worth it. I bet with sharp saving I'd probably make better of myself if I put up 10 years of dancing.

*Taylor*

If that were the only thing I was moving for, I wouldnt move.

But when you dont even have the right to be yourself in your own house, well, maybe its time to consider a move?

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z84/mariesophia66/NDA.jpg

[Lady_Passion]

Just necessary. Better late than never.

There's no mystery about how politics works in the U.S.

[TaylorMade]

If that were the only thing I was moving for, I wouldnt move.

But when you dont even have the right to be yourself in your own house, well, maybe its time to consider a move?

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z84/mariesophia66/NDA.jpg

Hm, Nevada's always been on my short list... so, that wouldn't be so bad. :)

*Taylor*

[Pasadenacpl2]

Explain to me again, the point of being a US citizen?

Is this rhetorical, or are you serious? I don't want to assume one way or the other.

Pasa

[MarieDelta]

Is this rhetorical, or are you serious? I don't want to assume one way or the other.

Pasa

I'm serious - what is the point of being a second class citizen?

Someone else asked why someone lived in a place that disrespects them - so I am asking the same question. Why am I living amongst people who dont think I deserve the same rights they have?

There are other places to be out there, maybe its time I explored my options.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I see that map, btw, and I'm filled with hope. 21 states have anti discrimination laws, and more than half of those it covers gender identity laws too? That's fantastic. That's nearly half the nation. And, it will only get better as time goes on. Change is slow, but it does happen. If you'd have told me when I was a kid in the 80s that we'd be this far, I'd have laughed.

I love where our country is going. Homosexual rights are getting more and more pronounced, race has less and less to do with anything. We have a black man in the oval office, and for nearly 20 years the upper administration of every president has been color blind.

Yup, things are going well. We still have a LOT of work to do, and things are not nearly perfect. But, we have more and more things to be happy about, including Laura Bush's statement. The glass is more than half full.

Pasa

[Pasadenacpl2]

I'm serious - what is the point of being a second class citizen?

Someone else asked why someone lived in a place that disrespects them - so I am asking the same question. Why am I living amongst people who dont think I deserve the same rights they have?

There are other places to be out there, maybe its time I explored my options.

I notice that where you live, in Colorado, is one of the states where discrimination based upon gender identity is illegal.

I wonder if you will find another place to live that offers as much as the US does. If you are only looking at this one particular issue, I suppose you might. But when looking at the whole package, I am genuinely curious.

Pasa

[MarieDelta]

I notice that where you live, in Colorado, is one of the states where discrimination based upon gender identity is illegal.

I wonder if you will find another place to live that offers as much as the US does. If you are only looking at this one particular issue, I suppose you might. But when looking at the whole package, I am genuinely curious.

Pasa

In many states in this union you can be tossed out of your house for being transgender.

In many states you can be fired if the company you work for finds out that you crossdress on your own time, in private.

You can be denied the right to adopt based on your gender identity.

Discrimination against transgender folks is legal in most states in this country. But changing it so people can be more productive is "too extreme" and "going too far."

In many states there have been problems with people using the bathroom. they have been locked up for using the appropriate bathroom.

Yeah I live in Colorado, and fortunately its better here than many places.

I suppose I am just tired of hearing the same old lines from the fat cats up top.

Do you see why I might be a bit frustrated?

[Pasadenacpl2]

Sure I can. I get it. But, I also see far more hope than despair. I see progress, change, and acceptane growing.

Pasa