Anyone use dietary/sports supps?

[RobUK]

I'm working out really hard - trying to lose weight before my summer holiday, but I'm getting more and more confused by which supplements to take.

After the basic stuff (protein shake, protein bars, thermogenic fat burners), it seems to get REALLY confusing - which is better NO2 or a T-Booster? Fenugreek or Tribulus? Does Creatine really make you bloated?

I'm only a student, so I don't have a vast income and I can't afford all of them, so I don't what to get...

Does anyone else here workout? What supplements work for you? Do you know which are best?

I REALLY need some advice here - I've reduced my body fat by 10% in 4 months, but I need it to get it down another 15% by September...:eek:

[Lady_Passion]

Call John at http://www.musclemass.com

It's his company and I've been consulting with him for almost 20 years. He'll explain what does what and how and when to use a supplement according to your goals. Just try to be clear about what your goal is so he can best advise you.

Example, some people want to be leaner. Some want bulk and fast. Some just want to be able to maintain a normal routine. There are also hard gainers, which John is quite knowledgeable about.

Creatine works by allowing your cells to absorb water. Helps when stressed with resistance training and minimizes recovery time. I haven't needed it, so haven't checked with John about creatine, however 3rd ex used CreXtreme from Tower with fantastic results. It has no fillers and doesn't lead to diabetes or blood sugar problems with long term use. That said, most supplements should be cycled on and off anyway. Must drink a lot of water with creatine.

Also, chlorophyll is fairly inexpensive and lasts a couple of weeks usually. It's loaded with magnesium, in fact that's the center molecule. Chlorophyll is only one molecule (being magnesium) away from being a blood cell, in which the center molecule is iron. Great for recovery if you drink it throughout the day and sip during workouts. Should also drink a lot of water when using chlorophyll because it works as an internal cleanser. Water is needed as a means to eliminate toxins and waste being purged.

As for an overall supplement, I use Ultimate Meal. Can't beat what it does for the money and since it is a meal replacement it can be part of your groceries. Vitamin Shoppe currently has it online for $52 per large can and they honor the online price in stores.

[RobUK]

Thanks for the advice!

When you say


Creatine .... 3rd ex used CreXtreme from Tower with fantastic results.

What did you mean? Build lots of muscle, lose lots of fat, or what?

[Apleasureseeker]

Supplements I've had good results from, and use regularly, are:

Creatine--Known for increasing cell volume, which is to say, it increases the amount of water in the cells. What appeals to me even more is that is increases the ability for muscles to contract and that results in increased speed and endurance. It's so well documented that you know it's pretty safe for most people. It's supposed to be better absorbed if taken with some sugar or Carbs, especially right after working out. (only bad thing i;ve heard--They say it'll give you mega-gas if you take it with soda).

L-glutamine-- helps your body recover from workouts faster. Actually it helps just aobut everything in your body. Also slightly anti-inflammatory, which is good for things like injuries and arthritis.

L-Arginine-- Increases muscle growth, healing, and muscular contraction. I've had great results with this, even finding old injuries stopped bothering me. They say is can convert fat into muscle while you sleep. It also increase sperm volume (sometimes alot!) and erection size and strength, in a mechanism similar to Viagra. This amino acid is what gives semen it's flavor. They say too much can cause "anal leakage" (!) by increasing intestinal contractions, and roughening of the skin.

AKG--Argenine Keto glutamate--some people swear by this stuff. I've tried a couple of different brands and never felt any results.

Tribulus-- Good stuff! Increases growth hormones (they say), acts as a general tonic, and also strengthens sex drive. Some brands can be expensive, but I've found the best is Vitamin Shoppe brand, and also on of the cheapest.

Ginseng--good for muscle recovery, endurance and general health and feeling good.

Hope that helps.
When you get built, post us some hot pix!

[RobUK]

WOW! Vitamin Shoppe is SO cheap! Couldn't find out the international rates as they're calculated per order weight - Bodybuilding.com just started a new shipping method to the UK that's 40% cheaper (so they say) - wonder which is really cheaper....

Anyway, for anyone else in the UK - from what I've seen, Vitamin Shoppe is similar to Holland & Barrett in the UK, but it also has the branded stuff, like in a GNC or any supplement site....

Thanks for pointing me to this site!

[jamiehue]

Trainin hard one needs the supps if not eat well spend the money on broccoli. sweetpots and kingoscar sardines chocolate milk for recovery. thats it.

[RobUK]

I've already got my diet down to consuming 1900kcal per day, and I do about 1500kcal of exercise (can't be exact, as, apart from 2 lots of 618kcal of cardio, the last third is resistance exercise, of which the metabolic cost isn't quantifiable). Oh, and I'm having about 300g protein per day, and 25.4g dietary fibre per day (just over the UK governments recommended amount).

I think I've got my diet sorted, thanx. It's just the supplements I was wondering about...

[Canticle]

If you are eating a balanced diet, three meals a day, good food, no rubbish, you shouldn't need any supplements. I lost weight, by eating more. More of what was good for me, fruit, salad, vegetables. Breakfast, lunch and dinner.

It must have worked. I've lost 112lbs in 4 years.

I don't believe in all these supplements. Don't reckon the men who used to work in the fields needed them, nor any of the many modern day, ''less civilized,'' cultures, who produce healthy offspring and adults.

Just money making. A bit like Richard Dawkins selling, tee shirts, caps, water bottles, shopping bags and 'A' for atheist badges, on his official site. I think someone needs to turn the tables, that stand outside the temples of such false gods.

[Apleasureseeker]

WOW! Vitamin Shoppe is SO cheap! Couldn't find out the international rates as they're calculated per order weight - Bodybuilding.com just started a new shipping method to the UK that's 40% cheaper (so they say) - wonder which is really cheaper....

Anyway, for anyone else in the UK - from what I've seen, Vitamin Shoppe is similar to Holland & Barrett in the UK, but it also has the branded stuff, like in a GNC or any supplement site....

Thanks for pointing me to this site!

I like the prices, but I wouldn't buy their stuff if they weren't high in quality, too. Their products are generally very good. For the suppliments in capsules, they're top notch. Honestly, for individual aminos in powder form, their products are still very good, but maybe not top of the shelf. For glutamine and creatine, I get a little more bang for my buck with MetRx or Biochem brand, but those are harder to come by. Their protien powder is also good, but again, there are better name brands, as budget allows.

--Forgot to mention (you probably already know) if you're taking protiens and aminos it;s good to be taking a B-complex, since B-6 & B-12 help metabolize protiens.

Also--If you have any cash left, consider Choline bitartrate (also a b-vitamin derivative). It's used by the nervous system and can incread muscles contractions, it give a little energy lift and improves memory.

[Lady_Passion]

Thanks for the advice!

When you say


What did you mean? Build lots of muscle, lose lots of fat, or what?

He is a former diabetic and wanted to use creatine so I found a brand without fillers or sugar, which is used to offset the bitterness. He mixes his with orange or apple juice and says it's tolerable. Must be 'cause he's a baby when it comes to stuff like that :.)

Also used to be a power lifter and builds muscle easily. His results from using the CreXtreme were primarily gaining mass more quickly and recovering from intense workouts more quickly. CreXtreme also does not need to be loaded, like most creatine products do. Just take as directed when needed.

And again, I highly recommend contacting John at musclemass.com - he's the real deal and will not steer you wrong. Also gives free shipping if you're active duty military, in case that applies to you :.)

[Lady_Passion]

If you are eating a balanced diet, three meals a day, good food, no rubbish, you shouldn't need any supplements. I lost weight, by eating more. More of what was good for me, fruit, salad, vegetables. Breakfast, lunch and dinner.

It must have worked. I've lost 112lbs in 4 years.

I don't believe in all these supplements. Don't reckon the men who used to work in the fields needed them, nor any of the many modern day, ''less civilized,'' cultures, who produce healthy offspring and adults.

Just money making. A bit like Richard Dawkins selling, tee shirts, caps, water bottles, shopping bags and 'A' for atheist badges, on his official site. I think someone needs to turn the tables, that stand outside the temples of such false gods.

May be that you do get what you need, though a lot of people don't. For instance I have a chronic vitamin D deficiency that brought on early osteoporosis. After a conventional treatment for over a year with a prescription for 8,000 IUs daily, there was no change at all and my back was getting worse. Already had 4 dics protruding and had lost 60% of the strength of my back. I had to change something up fast.

Ended up being prescribed sun *lol* Primarily in the morning and evening or short periods in the hottest part of the day. In the typically gray Chicago winters I use a tanning bed with full spectrum bulbs that have both UVA and UVB. Now I have no problem maintaining healthy vitamin D levels, and with chiropractic care I've regained 30% use of my back over the last two years and may gain another 10%.

Four and a half years ago, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and a month later two types of cancer. After changing my diet drastically and getting the right nutrients in huge megadoses of several supplements including 50,000 IUs of vitamin D daily for over a month and 16,000mg of vitamin C daily, four months later I was symptom free without surgery, chemo or radiation. I haven't had an MS flare for quite some time and experience no symptoms.

I also study orthomolecular nutrition which helps much. Essentially that's having tests done to determine deficiencies, then treating those with diet first, nutrition second and conventional medicine as a last resort. These past few years I've actually begun UNaging :.) I'm 50 and most people think I'm late 30s. BF is a rather attractive 34 and I'm loving what good nutrition and supplements do for me :.)

As for supplementing for strenuous workouts, most people are or become deficient in magnesium and other minerals as well as certain vitamins. The added stress of a strenuous workouts really does require more than an average diet.

I've also read research that supports evidence an average person could easily get by on 700 calories per day without feeling hunger as long as those 700 calories contain all the vitamins and nutrients a body needs. I'm pretty close to that myself, relative to working out. Always eating, never hungry and probably consume around an average of 1,300 calories a day because I can't leave chocolate and ice cream alone :.) I work out every day for about 2.5 hours. Usually 5 miles on the crossramp at the highest level, swim 20-30 laps, pilates, incline squats, bi and lat pulldowns and walking squats in the pool for no impact since I'm trying not to undo the progress with my back. I'm 5'6", weigh 128 now (profile pics are somewhat dated) in great shape and wear a size 8. I'm loving that too :.)

[RobUK]

May be that you do get what you need, though a lot of people don't. For instance I have a chronic vitamin D deficiency that brought on early osteoporosis. After a conventional treatment for over a year with a prescription for 8,000 IUs daily, there was no change at all and my back was getting worse.month and 16,000mg of vitamin C daily, four months later I was symptom free without surgery, chemo or radiation. I haven't had an MS flare for quite some time and experience no symptoms.....

I've also read research that supports evidence an average person could easily get by on 700 calories per day without feeling hunger as long as those 700 calories contain all the vitamins and nutrients a body needs.

Do you mind me asking how you workout IU from ml. I have a 0.20ml HGH prescription, as I had a brain tumor that damaged some glands. I've lots of stuff on the internet about HGH, but they all talk in terms of IU, and I don't know what that is!

I find that stuff about being able to live on 700kcal interesting - you've said that gives you the necessary vitamins and nutrients, but what about fuel for your muscles and organs?

[Lady_Passion]

Do you mind me asking how you workout IU from ml. I have a 0.20ml HGH prescription, as I had a brain tumor that damaged some glands. I've lots of stuff on the internet about HGH, but they all talk in terms of IU, and I don't know what that is!

I would contact John at musclemass.com for more info on HGH. Be sure to mention the medical background at least briefly.


IUs and mls....that depends on what is being converted. Some IUs don't convert to or from ml. Here's an online converter that demonstrates this.

converting IUs to Mcg (http://www.robert-forbes.com/public_html/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61&Itemid=90)

This touches on it as well. (http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_medical.htm)


Note on International Units ( i.u. )
An old measurement of vitamin activity determined by biological methods as opposed to new measures that are determined by direct chemical analysis.
Many health foods and supplements still use i.u. ( IU ).
For Vitamin A, 1 i.u. = 0.3µg retinol, 3.6µg b-carotene, or 7.2µg other vitamin A carotenoids
For Vitamin D, 1 i.u. = 0.025µg cholecalciferol
For Vitamin E, 1 i.u. = 0.67µg natural a-tocopherol (different conversion factors are used for different forms of vitamin E)



I find that stuff about being able to live on 700kcal interesting - you've said that gives you the necessary vitamins and nutrients, but what about fuel for your muscles and organs?
Eat healthy meat organs, or determine which vitamins and minerals can be obtained from meat organs and take those in a supplement form. Admittedly that is easier said than done :.), but it's possible. Example:

Y'all are going to think I'm sick after reading this, but at the time there was not any other option. I also have/had a thyroid condition called Hashimotos, meaning my thyroid can go hyper or hypo dependent upon stresses, diet and other physical terrain factors. After several unsuccessful attempts with standard prescription medications over a few years, I stumbled upon an 'alternative' veterinarian's page informing how to treat pets with thyroid glands from cows or pigs. I ran with that... found an organic bison company in Wisconsin that sold organic thyroid glands, for pets only of course :.)

I found an online converter and estimated half a teaspoon of standardized (evenly mixed) thyroid gland is the equivalent amount of prescription thyroid meds I'd been on. Bought several organic bison thyroid glands, mushed them up, measured the size of half a teaspoon, then put the entire amount in a ziplock sandwich bag and scored the bag lightly in a criss cross so each little square was approximately the size of a teaspoon.

Having studied thyroid gland functionality in conjunction with the circadian rhythm, I took half a teaspoon about 7am, then a 1/4 teaspoon about 1pm to mimic as closely as possible the manner in which a body produces thyroid to meet needs throughout the day. And I took digestive enzymes for meats with it, because I couldn't chew it like an animal might. Had to swallow it whole and yes that was disgusting since I've never eaten raw meat.

Within six months, my thyroid was almost back to normal compared to antibodies that had been so off the charts they couldn't be measured. Literally went from 6,000+ to 90. Normal is much lower than that even, and I consistently test within normal now, though I also attribute a large part of that consistency to be due to regular strenuous exercise. Over the last several years this either healed my thyroid entirely or something close enough that my thyroid levels are simply maintained by eating well now - I take nothing for it and have been clinically within normal ranges for almost a year :.) Yay me!

Sorry so long, just demonstrating the effort and diligence required to effect long term, possibly permanent results.


Did you know eskimos eat slivers of adrenal glands from whales to get vitamin C and other nutrients they need during the winter?

Supposedly Roman warriors ate only meat organs. Fleshy meat was given to those who did not fight.

Some Native Americans did what came natural. If their heart felt weak, they would eat a fresh heart of a healthy animal. Likewise, thyroid, gall bladder, etc. Don't ask me how they got there, but they pretty much nailed that. I believe it was Hippocrates (don't quote me - I'd have to dig this up again to be sure) who promoted healing through consuming healthy organ meats that correspond with the location of pain or weakness in a person's body.

Similarly, numerous other cultures eat more organ meats than we do in the U.S., where organ meats are 'yuck' :.)

However, this all brings me to obtaining minerals from green drinks. Consider how large and well muscled cattle are. What do they eat?

There are world class vegetarian and vegan athletes like Bill Pearl and Sixto Linares. Some of their achievements might be attributed to good genes, but they still had to maintain what they were born with.

So, all that to answer your question: I am almost vegetarian. Will never be vegan because I love meat. Just consume more veggies and whole fruits than anything else. Usually have 3 green drinks per day, which are very low calorie.

Not intended to advertise, but here's an example of how sufficient quality green drinks can give a person what they need, assuming we also get healthy fats and other vitamins from other sources. I use flax oil, real butter, occasionally eat meat cooked at a low temperature - never more than half cooked and eat the fat it comes with because it contains digestive enzymes specific to that meat. I don't eat fish much, so supplement with Now Foods Super EPA with DHA. Also drink water with chlorophyll and vitamin C throughout every day.


Ultimate Meal calories and nutritional value (http://www.betterlife.com/prod_home_page.asp?prod_id=9025)

Ingredients: 1/3 Cup supplies: Calories 170, Protein 16 gm, Carbohydrates 20 gm, Fiber 8 gm, Fat 4 gm, Sodium 95 mg, Potassium 175 mg, Calcium 300 mg, Magnesium 175 mg, Beta-Carotene 5000 IU, Vitamin B12 15 mcg, Folic Acid 125 mcg, Iron 4 mcg, Choline 300 mg, Omega 3 770 mg, Omega 6 350 mg.
1. The Ultimate Amaranth(Peru & USA - Exclusively in "The Meal")(Organic, properly sprouted & Fresh Freeze-Dried)
2. The Ultimate Millet (Bolivia & USA - exclusively in "the meal")(organic, properly sprouted & fresh freeze-dried)
3. Organic Brown Rice Protein 75% concentrate (India)
4. Yellow Pea Protein 82% Isolate (Canada)
5. Certified Organic, Raw, Milled, Flax Seed (Canada)
6. Certified Organic Spirulina (India) 2000 mg
7. De-oiled Plant Lecithin (USA) 1500 mg
8. The Ultimate Broccoli (USA - exclusiely in "The Meal")(certified organic, properly sprouted & fresh freeze-dried) 500 mg\
9. Vitamin C (Fully Reacted & Buffered with Calcium)(USA) 500 mg
10. Wildcrafted Fresh Freeze-dried Horsetail Herb (USA) 400 mg
11. Natural Vitamin E Succinate (USA) 300 IU
12. Calcium (Malate & Citrate)(USA) 250 mg
13. Citrus Bioflavonoid Complex 50% (USA) 200 mg
14. Magnesium (Citrate)(USA) 125 mg
15. Wildcraftedfresh Fresh Freeeze-Dried Nettles (USA) 100 mg
16. Opti-Pure Co-enzyme Q10 (Japan) 20 mg
17. Opti-Pure Ginkgo Biloba Extract 24-6% (Japan) 20 mg
18. Opti-Pure Grape Seed Extract (Japan) 20 mg
19. Opti-Pure Alpha Lipoic Acid 95% (Japan) 20 mg
20. Opti-Pure Caffeine-Free Green Tea Extract (Japan) 20 mg
21. Emed-MT Milk Thistle Extract 80% (Spain) 20 mg
22. Stevia Stevioside (Stevia Extract)(Brazil) 20 mg
23. L-OptiZinc (Natural Zinc Monomethionine)(USA) 5 mg
24. Chromemate (Chromium Polynicotinate)(USA) 100 mcg
25. Yeast-Free Selenium (Selenocysteine)(India) 100 mcg.
THE ULTIMATE MEAL® is totally free of maltodextrin, yeast-based vitamins and minerals, soy protein, MSG, salt, wheat, corn, yeast, eggs, dairy products, sugar, honey, fructose, caffeine, ginseng, as well as artificial preservatives, flavors, coloring, fillers and animal products.


I also do NOT avoid cholesterol of any kind. If you're interested in cholesterol, check out "The Cholesterol Myth (http://douglassreport.com/reports/cholesterol/?gclid=CNP3grSxu6ECFQsNDQoddl4SDA)". Cholesterol deserves it's own topic actually, but suffice it to say our hearts and brains are covered with cholesterol. We need more as we age and when we cut back, we deprive ourselves. The liver (mostly) and adrenal glands produce cholesterol to meet energy and hormone requirements. Consuming vitamin C prevents arterial plaque build up and dark green veggies promote a better balance between the various cholesterol levels HDL, LDL, VLDL, LPa, etc. - there are 7 known but only the first three have been significantly researched. When an otherwise healthy body's cholesterol is elevated, that signifies cellular stress as a symptom, NOT a diagnosis :rolleyes: I won't elaborate here on that soapbox though :.)

As for thermogenic fat burners, avoid them and put your money on more natural means for longer lasting, safer results. Thermogenic fat burners are ridiculously expensive and can majorly fuck with cleansing organs, hormone function and depending on the person can lead to deficiencies which complicates supplementation and ultimately affects your workout efforts negatively.

You can simplify your efforts and supplementation if you aim for a natural build. If you haven't seen a recent photo of Arnold Schwarzenegger lately... well, suffice it to say it's not a good idea to overbuild because you'll pay for it later with stretch marks and so much loose skin you'll like like a cross between a prune and an elephant.

You'll know when you're on the right track because you'll see muscle development while not finding it difficult or slow to recover from workouts, or experience cramps which is often a sign of electrolyte imbalance, calcium or other mineral deficiencies.

I apologize for the length of this post. I can go on about this stuff endlessly.

[boca.openminded]

it you are on a tight budget, Puritan's (Puritan.com) is a very inexpensive online vitamin store. I have used them before so I know they do have good stuff for ALL of your bodys needs (weight gain, loss, cardio, sleep aides, etc)..

As for Creatine, I used it years ago. For the life of me I couldnt get the right definition & increase body weight. Once I started using Creatine I gained 4-5 pounds per month & my body looked more cut...

[Lady_Passion]

^
^
Forgot to mention I sometimes make an organic eggnog of sorts with two eggs, rice milk and cinnamon. Still low cal and lots of protein. Also like peanut butter and a variety of nuts as snacks. Always snacking on something...

[Apleasureseeker]

So much great info in this thread!

I'll add a little more about Creatine: Someone mentioned it's bitter taste and also some name-brand creatine supplements. Creatine should be flavorless by itself! I'd be careful about bad tasting creatine. There are a couple of different types of pure creatine, such as 'micronized,' which is just more finely powdered and so mixes easier, and some chemically bound with glutamine.

Also, if you're on a special diet be careful about creatine combinations, particularly those labeled 'post-workout.' some of these employ something called the 'insulin pump' to get more creatine into the muscles, and it goes like this: after working out, muscles are hungry for nutrients, particularly carbs and protein, and insulin facilitates this transport, so taking a large dose of simple sugars with creatine or protein will cause the body to produce a lot more insulin and that will pump more of the nutrients into the muscle tissue. It's said it works very well, but it may not be safe for people with diabetes and similar dietary issues.

As for creatine loading, that has more to do with when the directions were written. It used to be common to recommend a loading dose--usually twice as big as the regular dose-- for the first day or week. This has been shown not to be necessary (but it does sell more creatine). Creatine is also stored in the muscles, so it'll still work for a few weeks after you stop taking it. Many people cycle on and off it, so they're not continually saturating themselves with it.

Regarding cows and muscle, remember they have a very, very different metabolism than humans. cows are herbivores and designed to eat only plants, while humans are omnivores, we can eat either plants or animals, but we function optimally with plants and a little bit of animal matter. Modern cows are also specially bred to build a lot of muscle, and many are even given hormones, too.

[Lady_Passion]

So much great info in this thread!

I'll add a little more about Creatine: Someone mentioned it's bitter taste and also some name-brand creatine supplements. Creatine should be flavorless by itself! I'd be careful about bad tasting creatine. There are a couple of different types of pure creatine, such as 'micronized,' which is just more finely powdered and so mixes easier, and some chemically bound with glutamine.
CreExtreme contains the following:


Creatine Magnesium Chelate*
Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate (CEM3)
Creatine Ethyl Ester HCl (CEE)

CreXtreme® contains NO ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS, FLAVORS, BINDERS, BUFFERS, FILLERS, COLORS OR PRESERVATIVES.


It's magnesium that lends the bitterness. There isn't anything bad about this particular product :.)


Also, if you're on a special diet be careful about creatine combinations, particularly those labeled 'post-workout.' some of these employ something called the 'insulin pump' to get more creatine into the muscles, and it goes like this: after working out, muscles are hungry for nutrients, particularly carbs and protein, and insulin facilitates this transport, so taking a large dose of simple sugars with creatine or protein will cause the body to produce a lot more insulin and that will pump more of the nutrients into the muscle tissue. It's said it works very well, but it may not be safe for people with diabetes and similar dietary issues.
So true. Additionally, diuretics should be avoided when taking creatine for obvious reasons considering what creatine's purpose is when taken for workouts.


As for creatine loading, that has more to do with when the directions were written. It used to be common to recommend a loading dose--usually twice as big as the regular dose-- for the first day or week. This has been shown not to be necessary (but it does sell more creatine). Creatine is also stored in the muscles, so it'll still work for a few weeks after you stop taking it. Many people cycle on and off it, so they're not continually saturating themselves with it.
True, though it depends somewhat on an individual's metabolism, diet, and how and when creatine is taken.


Regarding cows and muscle, remember they have a very, very different metabolism than humans. cows are herbivores and designed to eat only plants, while humans are omnivores, we can eat either plants or animals, but we function optimally with plants and a little bit of animal matter. Modern cows are also specially bred to build a lot of muscle, and many are even given hormones, too.
Haha! Obviously humans are not cattle :.) The point was intended to be minerals and vitamins come from vegetation. Unfortunately I'm unable to edit that post for better clarification :./

[Canticle]

May be that you do get what you need, though a lot of people don't. For instance I have a chronic vitamin D deficiency that brought on early osteoporosis. After a conventional treatment for over a year with a prescription for 8,000 IUs daily, there was no change at all and my back was getting worse. Already had 4 dics protruding and had lost 60% of the strength of my back. I had to change something up fast.

Ended up being prescribed sun *lol* Primarily in the morning and evening or short periods in the hottest part of the day. In the typically gray Chicago winters I use a tanning bed with full spectrum bulbs that have both UVA and UVB. Now I have no problem maintaining healthy vitamin D levels, and with chiropractic care I've regained 30% use of my back over the last two years and may gain another 10%.

Four and a half years ago, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and a month later two types of cancer. After changing my diet drastically and getting the right nutrients in huge megadoses of several supplements including 50,000 IUs of vitamin D daily for over a month and 16,000mg of vitamin C daily, four months later I was symptom free without surgery, chemo or radiation. I haven't had an MS flare for quite some time and experience no symptoms.

I also study orthomolecular nutrition which helps much. Essentially that's having tests done to determine deficiencies, then treating those with diet first, nutrition second and conventional medicine as a last resort. These past few years I've actually begun UNaging :.) I'm 50 and most people think I'm late 30s. BF is a rather attractive 34 and I'm loving what good nutrition and supplements do for me :.)

As for supplementing for strenuous workouts, most people are or become deficient in magnesium and other minerals as well as certain vitamins. The added stress of a strenuous workouts really does require more than an average diet.

I've also read research that supports evidence an average person could easily get by on 700 calories per day without feeling hunger as long as those 700 calories contain all the vitamins and nutrients a body needs. I'm pretty close to that myself, relative to working out. Always eating, never hungry and probably consume around an average of 1,300 calories a day because I can't leave chocolate and ice cream alone :.) I work out every day for about 2.5 hours. Usually 5 miles on the crossramp at the highest level, swim 20-30 laps, pilates, incline squats, bi and lat pulldowns and walking squats in the pool for no impact since I'm trying not to undo the progress with my back. I'm 5'6", weigh 128 now (profile pics are somewhat dated) in great shape and wear a size 8. I'm loving that too :.)

You obviously had health issues, which have caused you to use your knowledge to research things, which would be of benefit to you. I still think that some people, can become obsessed with using, what they consider necessary additives, to their diet, when they are already perfectly healthy. Personally, I have lost 122 lbs (approximately), during the last four years. I wish I knew, how I ever got to gain that much, in the first place. Probably many reasons. What one does get left with, at my age, is loose skin and that can be as distressing, as being over weight. At least i am in the comfortable position of knowing, that only a doctor, nurse or funeral director, will ever see my body. I would never show my arms, I don't even look at them, if at all possible and a body looks much better covered. What lies beneath, is so often, not a pretty sight.

[Apleasureseeker]

Personally, I have lost 122 lbs (approximately), during the last four years. I wish I knew, how I ever got to gain that much, in the first place. Probably many reasons. What one does get left with, at my age, is loose skin and that can be as distressing, as being over weight. At least i am in the comfortable position of knowing, that only a doctor, nurse or funeral director, will ever see my body. I would never show my arms, I don't even look at them, if at all possible and a body looks much better covered. What lies beneath, is so often, not a pretty sight.

Wow! Losing 122 pounds is no small feat. You definitely deserve some respect for that (unless you were 200 pounds when you started. That might be too much). You probably feel great. Sorry aobut the skin situation. Is there plastic surgery for that, or, dare I say it, some dietary suppliment that might tighten it up?

[Lady_Passion]

You obviously had health issues, which have caused you to use your knowledge to research things, which would be of benefit to you. I still think that some people, can become obsessed with using, what they consider necessary additives, to their diet, when they are already perfectly healthy. Personally, I have lost 122 lbs (approximately), during the last four years. I wish I knew, how I ever got to gain that much, in the first place. Probably many reasons. What one does get left with, at my age, is loose skin and that can be as distressing, as being over weight. At least i am in the comfortable position of knowing, that only a doctor, nurse or funeral director, will ever see my body. I would never show my arms, I don't even look at them, if at all possible and a body looks much better covered. What lies beneath, is so often, not a pretty sight.
True :.) That is how I discovered orthomolecular nutrition and medicine. Lost my job to health, therefore insurance. With two forms of cancer, my back going down the drain and multiple sclerosis, I had to do something.

We don't get serious or chronic illness overnight. It happens gradually and it's a form of accelerated aging which can often be reversed with dietary changes or correcting deficiencies with supplements.

There are those people who practically live on supplements, and I was one when I had cancer, but for the most part everyone just needs to listen to their body. It should never be ignored when something doesn't feel right, however small. Doesn't mean we need to get paranoid and go overboard either, but just paying attention goes a long way. I'm so close to 'normal' or average now that it's down to green drinks and a few supplements. But there was a time I had a small arsenal going.

I worked myself into the ground because of how I was raised and brainwashed to think that was the only way to gain respect and get somewhere. Never going to make that mistake again :.)

As for loose skin, gaining and losing weight quickly is a bitch like that. When so much elasticity is lost, the one thing that can help some is toning and weight resistance so muscle fills some of that out. Doesn't take a lot of effort as much as consistent diligence and motivation.