Im confused

[tutunono]

I have this male friend that called me lastnight while i was out with my bf and gf, this was at 3:40 in the morning. I asked him what he was doing and he told me that he was on Craiglists looking for males to have sex with. I never knew he had these feelings for men before, so I asked him the standard questions such as, "how long have you liked men, how long have you been sleeping with men", his answer to me was, "He's not gay, he's straight and likes women only, but sometimes he justs has sex with men to get a "quick release" so to speak. Is my friend on the DL? Or is he in denial? I'm confused because the way he tried to explain it to me was that he's some type of sex addict or something. Any opinions or comments would be greatly appreciated.:bibounce:

[TwylaTwobits]

Perhaps your friend is one of those bisexual males that just can't form an emotional attachment to males. Plenty of people have posted that on this site so I'd have to say that you could find that in about 40% of the bisexual male population, while still others are capable of having emotional attractions without sex involved with both genders, and still more capable of having emotional and sexual attraction to both genders.

[MarieDelta]

Seems down-lowish to me.

Maybe he isnt given to much introspection, but it seems as if his actions indicate that he is in denial about being bisexual.

Although in some cultures the penetrator(top) isnt seen as being gay only the penetratee(bottom) is seen as gay. So I dunno?

Up to him to do the work though, in the end.

[tenni]

I read a study once that discussed the variety of the range of bisexual practices. One category was situational bisexuality. The example dealt more with situations such as the person is not able to have access to the opposite gender. This would be more common in places like prisons. I'm doubting that this guy fits cleanly into that category but he does seem to rationalize it as such. The people in this category will always select opposite gender if given a choice. He may redefine himself later in his life. It shouldn't really matter too much to you whether he sees himself as bisexual or not. I notice that you referred to his words as "not being gay". He is correct that he isn't gay and so technically correct.

My personal survey indicates that the numbers of men who seek non emotional sex with other guys is far higher than those who have sex with emotional attachment. I'd say that the numbers are closer to 80% have same sex experiences without emotional involvement. I've not read anything to say one way or the other scientifically though. It is probably extremely difficult to get an actual count on this type of same sex experiences.

[bemyonlyone]

He's bisexual, living in a homophobic society, and scared to tell people. Judging him for being "on the DL" as you put it, is not going to help him at all. As someone who has a very difficult time telling people...I can imagine what he's going through.

Less confused now?

[tenni]

bemy
He doesn't seem to have any difficulty telling his friend that he is seeking same sex experiences at all. It isn't about informing his friend about seeking same sex, it is how he defines and sees these acts. If there is no emotion, this man sees it as not gay. He ignores the fact that gay men have sex without emotion as well but gay men do not want sex with women. He states that his preference is women over men. The friend might want to ask if he sees himself as bisexual but I'd bet that he will say no to that as well. He may just need time. Why are people so concerned about labelling other people?

[bemyonlyone]

I didn't mean to label him, though I realize it sounded like I was. I hate being labeled.

I was just guessing. I don't really know. That's just how it's been for me.

[NEPHX]

I've not read anything to say one way or the other scientifically though. It is probably extremely difficult to get an actual count on this type of same sex experiences.

That it is...

Try the Kinsey Reports. Considering their time frame, its expected to be higher in a more open society (US). It is still one of the largest studies of the kind.

www.kinseyinstitute.org
The following is directly from the institute:

Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (1948) and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (1953) reported that:

* 37% of males and 13% of females had at least some overt homosexual experience to orgasm;
* 10% of males were more or less exclusively homosexual and 8% of males were exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55. For females, Kinsey reported a range of 2-6% for more or less exclusively homosexual experience/response.
* 4% of males and 1-3% of females had been exclusively homosexual after the onset of adolescence up to the time of the interview.
* Kinsey devised a classification scheme to measure sexual orientation. It is commonly known as the Kinsey Scale

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

his answer to me was, "He's not gay, he's straight and likes women only, but sometimes he justs has sex with men to get a "quick release" so to speak. Is my friend on the DL? Or is he in denial?

Tut-Darlin, you're friend is in denial, but if it works for him, then so be it. People often label themSelves without knowing it. And, tell him to stay away from Craig's List...thats dangerous as hell..
I wish him luck and hopes he finds a happy medium. :}
Hugzzz to you.
Cat

[NEPHX]

"He's not gay, he's straight and likes women only, but sometimes he justs has sex with men to get a "quick release" so to speak. Is my friend on the DL? Or is he in denial?

People are what they say they are. Nothing they do makes them anything except what they feel and self-identify. This is a long accepted definition among the researchers and social scientists.

If anything, he's on the down-low about having sex with men which again, doesn't make him anything but a straight guy having sex with men. DL is a cliche or slang that means different things to different people.

If he told you he just likes to get a quick release, take him at his word but you can still discuss the topic and how you feel. Maybe he is attracted to men more than he is willing to say right now but if you are close and never knew this and he suddenly (at 2am) told you this and he knows your openly bi or whatever, this could be the start of his coming out... testing the waters with someone that can relate. Sticking a label on him might scare the hell out of him and run him right back into the closet. Let him label himself. What's it matter anyway?

Seriously, its easier for men to find men to have sex with than women to have sex with (society in the US at least makes it ok for men to have sex but women are sluts if they give it up too quickly or have casual sex (historically). That's seems to be changing pretty quickly with the younger generations depending on location.

There is a huge cross-section of men in society that consider themselves straight and have sex with other men. They may never consider themselves to be bi, gay, bi-curious or anything other than straight or, they might grow into other labels for themselves.

Weather he is in denial or not only he can really decide. Talking with him openly is great. But, generally, sexual orientation is a combination of things such as attraction, emotional connection, etc. (see Klein Sexual Orientation Grid - KSOG and other research). A common definition of bisexuality is the capacity to be attracted sexually to both genders.

From Wiki (and a good definition)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_who_have_sex_with_men

Men who have sex with men or males who have sex with males (MSM) refers to men who engage in sexual activity with other men, regardless of how they identify themselves; many choose not to accept social identities of gay or bisexual.[1][2][3][4][5] The term was created in the 1990s by epidemiologists in order to study the spread of disease among men who have sex with men, regardless of identity.[2]

MSM is often used in medical literature and social research to describe such men as a group for clinical study without considering issues of self-identification.

[NEPHX]

Tut-Darlin, you're friend is in denial, but if it works for him, then so be it. People often label themSelves without knowing it. And, tell him to stay away from Craig's List...thats dangerous as hell..
I wish him luck and hopes he finds a happy medium. :}
Hugzzz to you.
Cat

Cat, see my other post. Exclaiming that he is in denial is knee-jerk reaction since after all, he says he likes to get a quick release with men. It appears he didn't even say what that means (yet). They could be masturbating and not even touching. Maybe he is coming out or maybe he likes to get off with other men.

There are many people that enjoy the eroticism of the same sex and don't identify as anything other than a Kinsey0. We all need them as allies. Consider that the more people, particularly men, who find sensuality between men to be acceptable, the more society will change to bring such things into "normal" range.

Craig's list is no less dangerous than the local bar, a male bath house, a mixed adult sex club, Adult Friend Finder, match.com, the supermarket, a church, etc. The same positive and negative kinds of people can possibly be found in all places. Its how one interfaces and how one conducts them self safely in all situations that makes the difference. Should a person meet a stranger in a private place without knowing anything about them? Not usually a good idea... doesn't matter where you make initial contact. There are many good people looking for genuine things on Craig's List. And, there are many spammers on there too. Women's experience vs. men's experience with CL will be dramatically different. Most female posts in many cities on CL are either links to spam sights. CL now deletes them routinely after testing them. Most male posts are not fake/spam.

[69luvr]

his answer to me was, "He's not gay, he's straight and likes women only, but sometimes he justs has sex with men to get a "quick release" so to speak. Is my friend on the DL? Or is he in denial?

Tut-Darlin, you're friend is in denial, but if it works for him, then so be it. People often label themSelves without knowing it. And, tell him to stay away from Craig's List...thats dangerous as hell..
I wish him luck and hopes he finds a happy medium. :}
Hugzzz to you.
Cat

You make perfect sense to me. He could be in denial but could enjoy sex with another male. we do not know his likes and dislikes. We can not actually understand what he is going through or what he enjoys re sex with men. It could be strictly an Oral sex fixation and it satisfies him when it happens. who knows? All humans are different and labels should never be applied to them. Lets all be free to enjoy what we want to enjoy as long as no one gets hurt by it.

[tenni]

I think that it is inappropriate and a dangerous tendency for anyone to state that someone is in "denial" on this small amount of information. Let's not be judgmental about this like some gay (men ..usually) are about bisexuals being in denial about being gay. There are a lot of guys who will enjoy a bj from another person (guy/girl..doesn't matter) and not consider themselves bisexual. "A hole is a hole" approach to release is their attitude. I suspect that most are young guys but not all. It is depersonalized sex and often more likely with other guys as someone wrote because guys are more prone to being sluts....lol. Later in their life, they may decide that they enjoyed it more than from a release aspect. That is up to them to decide ...not us.

[tutunono]

Great feedback guys, i deeply appreciate all of you guys opinions in the matter. Thanx.:bipride: