Bi Visibility

[Skafsgaard]

Hi fellas.

I sat in the train the other day, and a cute guy sat down on a seat opposite of mine. We talked a bit, but not much. He looked like he could be gay, but I wasn't sure. He seemed a bit interested, but none of us managed to really break the ice. I never learned his name or anything, so I can't even look him up on facebook.
That's when I realized how much it irritates me that it's so difficult to dicern the sexuality of a person - especially since I'm not much for feminine guys. Pretty much the own way to get dates with guys, without taking a big risk of an embarrasing situation, offending someone, or plain out getting a beating is either going to gay bars, which usually results in one night stands rather than dates or relationships, or netdating, which I don't really care much for.

That made me wonder how I could make my sexuality visible, without getting harrased by every other person that walks by me.
Wearing some kind of gay/bi jewelry is pretty much out of the question, as I really don't like wearing jewelry.
That's when I thought about wearing a pin/button on a piece of clothing or a bag or something. But then again, it seems mostly young Emo's do that. Which I'm not.
Coincidentially, though, a regular button fell of my jacket the other day, and I've lost it. So I thought I'd get a button/pin in the colours of the bi flag about the same size of one of the regular buttons on my jacket, and put it in the spot where my button used to be, lined up with the rest of the buttons on my jacket.
I would be a clear symbol of orientation to those in the LGBT-community, and it might even looks kind of stylish, and more organized than just putting on pins and buttons on at random places on your clothing.
So, do you think I should go for it, do you think it will give any results, and do you think it might become a trend to catch on among bisexuals as a sign of recognition and orientation?

Sincerely,
Skafsgaard

[cliffordmontero]

I think there is a certain amount of invisibility granted to bisexuals by society . . . either you are viewed as straight or gay unless you openly protest . . . i think wearing the bi pride colors or flag would be good . . . personally i have done it on occasion to certain events . . . go for it . . . maybe you can start a new trend

[Skafsgaard]

Thanks for replying. (:

Yeah. What I mean, though, isn't visibility by the general public (though that's needed too). What I'm talking about is a way to identify one another in everyday situations and not just at pride parades, to avoid beatings and embarrasing moments - in this case wearing a discrete badge, rather than toting a flag around at all times.

Anyhow, do you think it will look silly and/or immature? I'm asking, because I'm very vain by nature.

But thanks for the encouraging words. (:

[cliffordmontero]

well the bi flag colors are pink, purple and blue . . . and the bi flag is typically little known outside the community . . . much like the bear flag and the bdsm flag . . . so i dont think wearing a pin with it on it would garner much attention . . . the problem with signals is eventually they become well known . . . and with the information age what it is its not difficult to find out what things mean

[djones]

If I didn't hate the look of the Bi flag so much, I might be tempted to join this trend ! It would simplify things. At least if others do it, I can pick you out on a subway train and say hi !

[cliffordmontero]

maybe 3 ribbons, nested, one of each color pinned on like other awareness ribbons? beats putting a whole flag on ya

[Lonewolf76]

Skafsgaard,

I know exactly what you mean. There should be a way we can discretely identify ourselves to each other. I work in corrections - and many gang members have handsigns that they flash to one another to identify themselves. I've sometimes wondered why we couldn't do the same. A simple handflash and if the guy looks at you like you have two heads - you know he isn't and if he smiles and says "Hi!" - you're off and running. Just a thought... of course I have no idea what a "universal" bisexual handsign would be... but I'm sure this crazy bunch could come up with a few hilarious suggestions as well as some potentially serious ones. Again just a thought. Wolfie

[djones]

Funny though, if we were forced to wear gold stars or something, we would reject it ! Maybe we can get our own drinking fountains too !

But seriously, I agree that some subtle signifier would be nice - just not the silly looking bi flag !

Let's have a contest for a new BI symbol we can all happily, yet subtly, display - any takers ?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Then again if a guy is bisexual or gay it's not that hard to tell unless you are clueless and oblivious like all the people who have posted so far are.

Why ta go Bret. Good way to influance friends and make more from the newbies. Why all the insults all the time?
Cat

[Lonewolf76]

Then again if a guy is bisexual or gay it's not that hard to tell unless you are clueless and oblivious like all the people who have posted so far are.

Why ta go Bret. Good way to influance friends and make more from the newbies. Why all the insults all the time?
Cat

Because he's a shallow, immature ass and that's all he knows how to do - It's for that ery reason that he is on my iggy list - he hasn't had anything nice to say about anyone. talk about negative egos! Wolfie

[Biboz49]

Once I was travelling through an airport and there was a guy standing in line ahead of me. He looked like he could be gay but my gaydar is not very good. Then I spotted on his wrist a simple leather woven band that had the typical rainbow colors in it. Subtle, not flashy, not out there in your face. There was no doubt in my mind then he was gay. So I think replacing the button with the bi colors is a good idea.

[OmegaGray]

Y'know, I think I'd rather take a beating than feel like I had to resort to secret hand signals or indicators to announce my sexuality. If we allow fear to be a method of our own subversion than there will be no progress for us or those that come after us. Mind you, I'm not suggesting we go militant on folks, but rather adopt strength and resilience in the face of bigotry.

Now, I do think there must be a sense of decorum if you want to let an individual know that you find them attractive. If you can intelligently determine whether it would or would not be appropriate in the situation and, if done respectfully, there should be no fear of someone lashing out at you. It might happen, but it would not be your fault.

And I'd like to throw a shout out to certain folks of this site who have provided the excellent advice to me that has led me to accept my sexuality so completely that I'd rather take bruises and broken bones than hide it. Thanks guys!

[djones]

Omega has a point about not hiding - but can we still come up with a better symbol than the Bi flag !

[BiBedBud]

What about lingering eye contact, a sly smile, and a quick up-and-down glance?

Otherwise, we could just go :color: when our eyes meet someone we're interested in.

[fredtyg]

I was wondering if you shouldn't just approach a guy the same way you might approach a gal? Start off with a compliment: Wow. I don't see good looking guys like you very often? Ask the guy if you could buy him a drink or lunch?

That would be a fairly obvious come on but not as risky as telling the guy you want to suck his dick right from the start. If he wasn't bi, you could go your separate ways with no harm done. If he was bi, hopefully he'd realize you were interested in him and not get cold feet.

I agree, though, that it would be nice to have some not- so- obvious clues as to someone's sexuality.

[Skafsgaard]

Thanks for the comments, guys. Especially thanks to Wolfie and Bizboz for some nice feedback.

To OmegaGay: I appreciate your input, and I understand your concern. I agree completely that we have to be out and proud, even if it may cause us trouble. I myself would never hide or lie about my sexuality - I've even been physically assaulted once, because I refused to lie about my sexuality, and was instead frank about it when I was asked directly about it, even though I sensed trouble in the air.
However, using a symbol such as a button in the bi colours, is not the same as hiding, in my book. It is in fact a statement about ones sexuality, even though it is not all that in-your-face. In some situations it might not be appropriate to bring up the fact that one is bi. It is especially tiresome, and even intrusive, when some people have to tell just about every stranger they meet that they are bi or gay, or whatever.
So while I do believe it's our duty to stand up for ourselves, if we want to change the way society looks at us, I don't see the need to scream it out loud to every other stranger. We have prides for that, and we can tell family, friends, and even not-so-close aquiantances, or when you meet someone at a party, as it's an integral part of what we are. But for many other situations, I think a bi-button is a good compromise. It would not be intrusive, and people in the lgbt-community might recognize it. If it became a trend in the bi-community, we would have a much easier time if we happen to sit next to a cute, fellow bi in the train. We don't have to make it all more difficult for ourselves, than just neccesary.

[wildwestgoob]

Heres a thought... I was told once that if a guy you were talking to was wearing a ring of any particular kind (not necessarily a wedding band) and was spinning it around (rotating it I guess) on his finger, that was a sign of sorts... anyone else heard of this?

I know the OP mentioned not liking to wear any jewelry but perhaps he wears a ring or might consider getting a simple, non-flashy ring.

[cliffordmontero]

Thats funny to me because long before i ever came out as bi i used to wear alot of jewelry and 2 of the rings i wore were called "prayer wheels" and basically they are 2 rings nested in one another so that one ring can rotate around inside the other

[wildwestgoob]

Ok then, MY VOTE is for the rotating ring !

http://www.funkytownmall.com/Spinning_Rings-cP-2619.html
THESE spinning rings are AWESOME.... !!!


http://www.funkytownmall.com/Pride_Rings-cP-2620.html
Some of the pride rings are still a little too "flashy" for my taste, but some are still nice enough I would wear one.

[Realist]

I guess I'm the world's worst at detecting anyone's intentions.

I once knew a fellow for 6 years, who was bi-curious, and he'd tried to send me subliminal signals and give me different hints, for some time. Finally, with the help of some very good scotch, he blurted out that he was interested in doing "something" sexual with me. Even though I'd had a few male lovers before him I still failed to pick up on his signals.

Maybe for me a neon sign would be more appropriate!

Oh, and we did become lovers and the relationship lasted for 10 years!

[Skafsgaard]

I'm happy for you, Realist, that you found a guy with whom you had a relationship with for so long. But the fact that it took 6 years, before that happened - well, it illustrates the need for a wearable or doable sign for us.

While the rotating ring idea is good, like the many other great suggestions that have come up, there has been an inherent problem with all of out proposals this far, including my own badge-idea. The thing is that with all of the suggestions that have come up, there will always be someone who wouldn't want to wear it for different reasons. I don't like wearing jewelry, so rings are out for me. Others might not want to wear badges or buttons, as they might feel that they are too old for that, and those buttons may be associated with young people or even a sub-culture suck as emos, etc. that not anyone want to be associated with. If we decided paint our fingernails pink, purple and blue as a bi-sign, alot would probably not do it, simply because it might come off as feminine.

My point is, that we need something that's easily accessible. That is something that's so neutral, that they can wear it regardless of gender, age, or any sub-culture they may or may not be part of.

I wasn't going going to suggest a particular handsign as a bi-sign, but now I am anyway. To do this sign you use your thumb to hold down your pinkie, and hold your three other fingers (index, middle and ring finger) straight out and close together, with your palm facing you. The reasoning behind this sign is that each finger represents a stripe on the bi-flag. Wether your hand needs to be turned vertically or horizontally, I havn't thought about.

The reason why I was in doubt to suggest this is that it might be too hard to catch on, since it's only recognizable if you actually know about it, whereas anything in the bi-colours is a bit more obvious to bi-people. On the other hand, it is way more discrete, because it doesn't include wearing anything speceal, and it can be show discretely such as pretending to scratch your chin or forehead or whatever.

Anyhow, I'd like to hear your criticism on it as well, both positive and constructive.

EDIT: Another hand-sign suggestion I've got is this. Extend index- and middle finger as if making a Victory sign, while sticking the tip of your thumb in between the two fingers, and having the palm face yourself. Reasoning is sort of the same as the other suggestion I had, with index and middle finger representing gay and straight, and the small tip of your thumb representing bisexuals, clenched in between two communities as we are.
That hand sign has the same pros and cons as the other one, though.

[KevsBi]

I was wondering if you shouldn't just approach a guy the same way you might approach a gal? Start off with a compliment: Wow. I don't see good looking guys like you very often? Ask the guy if you could buy him a drink or lunch?

That would be a fairly obvious come on but not as risky as telling the guy you want to suck his dick right from the start. If he wasn't bi, you could go your separate ways with no harm done. If he was bi, hopefully he'd realize you were interested in him and not get cold feet.

I agree, though, that it would be nice to have some not- so- obvious clues as to someone's sexuality.




Thats very good advice...being a bisexual man who prefers not to visit gay bars, I have actually picked up a guy by buying him a drink... just having a general conversation about the news and life itself will let you know how far to go...just getting him to talk about his likes and dislikes is a huge indicator.

[crazy_cat_lady]

If I didn't hate the look of the Bi flag so much, I might be tempted to join this trend ! It would simplify things. At least if others do it, I can pick you out on a subway train and say hi !I hope you dont mind me asking but why do youu hate the Bi flag?

[Withatwist]

I, also, would like to be able to identify those guys that are open to a bi conversation and maybe more, and to present my interest (and possible availability) to other guys without pins, flags, or wrist bands.

How about we adopt a certain hand position that will be evident when we see someone who attracts us? This could be spontaneous when we see Mr. or Ms. Right-Now

I'd like to propose the following universal sign of bi-interest as follows:

The left hand casually holding either one, two, or three fingers of the right hand ..with the hands hanging either at the waist, or just below the waist. (Perhaps hold one finger for 'Open to the idea', two for Hot, and three fingers for NOW!!) He/She could walk, stand, or sit and display 'the sin-e' to broadcast that they are at least open to the idea of 'bi-ness'.
I'd like to be in a club, locker-room, restaurant or social event and see the possible matches, the take it from there.
The sign is subtle, which i think is good.

What do you think?

[bisexualandloveit]

I have had similar problems when trying to figure out if a guy is bisexual. I love the spinning ring idea, I'm in!:male::male::female:

[wildwestgoob]

How about we just say that for now.... the spinning of a ring is *another* way of saying that we are open to whatever may come (no pun intended) and not say that the spinning of a ring is THE way of proclaiming your sexuality?

There doesn't have to be just ONE way to say what needs to be said... look how many different variations of the rainbow flag there are for cryin out loud.

If someone comes up with a better or "as good as" hand sign, GREAT !
We can use that one too! Let just not let this get to the point we need an NFL sized "playbook" to field all the "signs", waves, spins, and colors... lol

:bipride:

:cool:

[dafydd]

A number of years ago in England it was known amongst members of our community that the last carriage of any train was where LGBT commuters sat, and hence you could flirt away with relative security.

d

[djones]

I hope you dont mind me asking but why do youu hate the Bi flag?

Nothing personal, but the colours are cheesy and a really bad colour combination at that. I feel no connection to the flag - and only the vaguest connection to the chosen colours (pink = female, blue = male, but so what ! ).

The over all effect of the flag is quite feminine, which may speak to some but doesn't speak to many of us (though I have been called a "pretty boy", I am masculine through and through and by no means a femme !)

I feel as little connection to the Bi flag as I do to the rainbow flag. But, I have never been much of a flag waver of any kind !

Just my two cents - and for the record, I have nothing against femme guys !

[tenni]

I agree with you completely djones. There is very little that reflects masculinity in that flag. The horizontal stripes are boring and the entire approach to the flag is too similar to the gay pride flag. As an artist, I find it an extremely poor composition and design. As a biman, I do not want to identify with such a flag. The purple between the two colours indicates more transgendered than bisexual. We are bisexual and attracted to both genders. We do not wish to be both genders. I mean no disrespect to those bimen who are into cross dressing and may have an entirely different perspective from my own.

[TwylaTwobits]

I agree with you completely djones. There is very little that reflects masculinity in that flag. The horizontal stripes are boring and the entire approach to the flag is too similar to the gay pride flag. As an artist, I find it an extremely poor composition and design. As a biman, I do not want to identify with such a flag. The purple between the two colours indicates more transgendered than bisexual. We are bisexual and attracted to both genders. We do not wish to be both genders.


Tenni, as an artist....Why don't you attempt to come up with something and see where it goes from there?

[tenni]

Oh Twyla...lol

I'm doing my income tax or avoiding doing my income tax right now as I type (other puter has just crashed just before I finished all the entries). I'm in the middle or beginning of writing a grant (with another curator) for a multi faceted media project due next Thursday. I start installing my own video installation on Monday and hope to hell not to be distracted by the grant which is also due next week.

I'm not a graphic artist. I'll see if I can fit it in though...(not)...I hate graphic logo designs or hate having to do such things. But thanks for asking :)

[TwylaTwobits]

LOL was just a thought as I read that... it appears a lot of people are not comfortable with any identifiable signs at all and that is fine. I think that if there were more, hate to put it this way but..."masculine" signs for bisexuals a few on here might use them. Just my opinion from reading this thread.

[tenni]

As I wrote, from my perspective I see no need for the purple unless bisexuals are stating that they are a blend of masculine and feminine. Maybe, some see it that way. I think that a design using pink and blue in a more creative simple way might work. It is the purple that I find yucky.

[TwylaTwobits]

I can see where some would but then again I'm sure if someone really wants to come up with something that they feel signifies themselves they will. Much as TaylorMade did with hers.

[MarieDelta]

The bi flag is symbolic


The pink color represents sexual attraction to the same sex only (gay and lesbian), The blue represents sexual attraction to the opposite sex only (straight) and the resultant overlap color purple represents sexual attraction to both sexes (bi).

The key to understanding the symbolism in the Bi Pride Flag is to know that the purple pixels of color blend unnoticeably into both the pink and blue, just as in the 'real world' where most bi people blend unnoticeably into both the gay/lesbian and straight communities.

The Bi Pride Flag is the only bisexual symbol not patented, trademarked or service marked.
http://biflag.com/Activism.asp

That being said, there is no reason why you cannot invent your own symbol/flag/color. However, dont expect others to recognize it, unless you have given it some publicity.

That is kind of the purpose for flags and symols. Not that we think they are "us", but that they are something that we can readily recognize.

I personally have a tatoo-

A mercury symbol with three flowers (morning glories) wrapped around it in pink, purple and blue. The mercury symbol is a symbol of transsexuals, the flowers represent the bi side of me.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CUj2kqmPux0/SzgxLtgQQeI/AAAAAAAAASU/cdd6vxS80IY/s288/tattoo%20day%20002.JPG

[TwylaTwobits]

Very cool tat, Marie :)

[MarieDelta]

Btw here is the Transgender Pride flag

http://images4.cafepress.com/product/36054524v17_480x480_Front.jpg

Here is the Bisexual Pride flag:

http://static.dailystrength.org/groupfiles/1/6/6/2/10002661/g_1337751260.png

[tenni]

Thanks for reposting that information Marie but that thinking isn't for me and I don't se the colours in that way. I'm visually literate and nope it doesn't visually work that way for me. They may be symbolic to some but visually that isn't what they communicate (to me at least). In order for the use of colour to have symbolic meaning, it needs to be promoted and accepted. Bisexuals seem to be fairly wide in how they express their sexuality. I don't think that we are all that united nor do we all believe in presenting ourselves politically. Even some posters referred to a way for a bisexual to be able to identify each other but I may be wrong I also suspect that it wasn't to be too broadly announced. Otherwise, a t shirt that says "I'm bi" would work quite well. :)

[Pasadenacpl2]

It might not work for you, Tenni, but this seems to be the bi pride symbol just about anywhere I go. It seems to be promoted pretty well, at least online and at the shops I frequent. Sometimes there are other symbols mixed in, but the color scheme is the same.

Pasa

[MarieDelta]

Thanks for reposting that information Marie but that thinking isn't for me and I don't se the colours in that way. I'm visually literate and nope it doesn't visually work that way for me. They may be symbolic to some but visually that isn't what they communicate (to me at least). In order for the use of colour to have symbolic meaning, it needs to be promoted and accepted. Bisexuals seem to be fairly wide in how they express their sexuality. I don't think that we are all that united nor do we all believe in presenting ourselves politically. Even some posters referred to a way for a bisexual to be able to identify each other but I may be wrong I also suspect that it wasn't to be too broadly announced. Otherwise, a t shirt that says "I'm bi" would work quite well. :)

So? Do your own thing! Whatever, there is no standing law that says you "have to use " anything.

But everywhere I've been, on both coasts and in-between. That flag, those colors are Bi-Pride. Want to change it? Go for it! Have fun!

But first, go down to your local GLBT shop and have a look around.

Do a web search on Bi-Pride, guess what comes up?

http://rlv.zcache.com/bi_pride_t_shirt-p235157545735697066t5tr_400.jpg

But, as I said, thems the facts.

[djones]

"The pink color represents sexual attraction to the same sex only (gay and lesbian), The blue represents sexual attraction to the opposite sex only (straight) and the resultant overlap color purple represents sexual attraction to both sexes (bi).

The key to understanding the symbolism in the Bi Pride Flag is to know that the purple pixels of color blend unnoticeably into both the pink and blue, just as in the 'real world' where most bi people blend unnoticeably into both the gay/lesbian and straight communities. "

Be that the case, a couple more reasons why the Bi flag is somewhat of failure :
1) It is a coded message that only those in the know are privy to - not a good tool for communicating
2) If the pink represents same sex only attraction, and the blue represents opposite sex only attraction, then neither colour should be in the flag - especially if the purple alone represents attraction to both sexes (we would then avoid the bad colour combination !)

Anyone in favour of starting a new campaign to find a better symbol and a better flag ? We can post a competition here and solicit submissions - I will happily be part of a jury panel (museum curator that I am !).

[dafydd]

"The pink color represents sexual attraction to the same sex only (gay and lesbian), The blue represents sexual attraction to the opposite sex only (straight) and the resultant overlap color purple represents sexual attraction to both sexes (bi).

The key to understanding the symbolism in the Bi Pride Flag is to know that the purple pixels of color blend unnoticeably into both the pink and blue, just as in the 'real world' where most bi people blend unnoticeably into both the gay/lesbian and straight communities. "

Be that the case, a couple more reasons why the Bi flag is somewhat of failure :
1) It is a coded message that only those in the know are privy to - .

Isn't that the point?

d

[BiMale]

We do need some symbol. I think that a bimetallic ring worn on the right ring finger would be perfect.

http://www.weddingrings-direct.com/show_product/MCW-1032/67/2///

[MarieDelta]

Does anyone know if the old earring code still applies? Or is that strictly regional?

(Left - gay, right - straight, both - Bi )

[fredtyg]

Does anyone know if the old earring code still applies? Or is that strictly regional?
(Left - gay, right - straight, both - Bi )

I don't know, but if I see a guy with two earrings, I generally assume he's not straight.

[dafydd]

I don't know, but if I see a guy with two earrings, I generally assume he's not straight.

It's the exact opposite in London. Anyone into bling and gangster rap wears 2 earings, it's all the rage with the straight boys in school, and their older mates outside.

d

[dafydd]

Btw here is the Transgender Pride flag

http://images4.cafepress.com/product/36054524v17_480x480_Front.jpg


Do you like that one Marie?

d

[MarieDelta]

Do you like that one Marie?

d

I dont care for it, but not enough to *do* something about it.

I think , if it were up to me I'd just have the trans symbol on a white feild (or maybe a light blue feild)

But then again it goes back to recognizablity, this(the flag) is one people are familiar with.

http://images7.cafepress.com/nocache/product/265515377v2147483647_480x480_Front.jpg

Like that..

[djones]

To Marie re. earrings :

Pretty much regional. The sides mean different things in some regions than in others. In many places - they mean nothing at all (have had two rings in my left ear since 1980 for no other reason than that's where I wanted them !)

To Dafydd re. coded message for only the privy :

If the flag is meant to be representative of a community, the symbolism should be readily understood to communicate to the world. With the Bi flag, even within the community, the symbolism is not clear (and the colours are an a eyesore of a combination !)

To Everyone :

Maybe just incorporating the letter "B" in a simple way might be a clear but subtle marker ? Like the T-Shirt Marie posted, put the "B" in LGBT !

[Cane1994]

Why not wear a purple ring on ur right index finger

[wildwestgoob]

Yeah, I'm not into the whole ear-ring thing either... did that in my rebellious youth, took it out about age 19 and never put it back in.

I *might* go for the extra purple ring, but then I also am not much for "bling" at all. I have my wedding band, and that is it, dont even wear a watch.

I still think that wearing the flag (in whatever format) is announcing to the WORLD AT LARGE who you sleep with... which is NOT what the OP or many others are looking for.

We are looking for something DISCREET... :cool: .... like say... oh I dont know... the casual spinning of one's ring.... :rolleyes:

(wonder where that was suggested...?)

[abaycum]

Interesting thread but I wonder how much of the content applies to the UK? As an old guy I accept that what I am feeling may not be the same as that felt by someone sitting nearby. Casual contacts are difficult because we know absolutely nothing about the other person. It matters not if they might at some point in their day; week; life, fancy a play with another guys cock we cannot know whether they are in our league or not. There are too many gradations of sexuality and the psychology of the moment is paramount. You can never be sure and that is why it is so difficult. None of us wants to make an embarrassing mistake. So we plod on and wait.

[sixfifti]

I have an old n much loved T shirt with double triangles in purple. Much cooler than the bi pride flag and adaptable to jewellery badges etc
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