we need a new site

[FireTiger]

I want to start an open letter to Drew about making a new bisexual site.
Here's my draft so far.
Please add or reword anything as u see fit.


Hi Drew.

The room and I have come to the conclusion that we want a new site. We hav just had a 17 year old and a 16 year old come to the chat room.
We send them away, but we cannot stop all of them from coming to this site.

We think it would be a good idea to create another site
for teens to learn about bisexuality like this one.
Basically, to protect us and to help them, we think we should have a bisexual.com for teens (the under 18 crowd).

[slaphappypud]

Yup, I was in chat when one 15 year old girl came in and we ran her off. Actually she was looking to hook up with someone her age! (supposedly, but I have a sneaky feeling there was something other than what was presented going on...).
Can't really stop it from happening on the net, if I'm going private for dirty talk I usually ask their age. But this is one reason I normally stay away from "cyber".

<BTW> I did post a link to a site mostly directed at teens (but good info for all).

[glantern954]

I don't think that creating a teen bi site would stop them from coming here too.

[Mrs. Taz]

It may not stop them but it would cut down on how many we have. Would also make all of us feel better knowing we are helping them and not pushing them away.

how about this tiger, Hi Drew.

The room and I have come to the conclusion that we want to add a new site, or add a section to this sitefor teens onlyor teens and adults combined. We have just had a 17 year old and a 16 year old come to the chat room.
We send them away, but we cannot stop all of them from coming to this site.

We think it would be a good idea to create another site
for teens to learn about bisexuality like this one.
Basically, to protect us and to help them, we think we should have a bisexual.com for teens (the under 18 crowd).

[arana]

I think it would be great to have a site like this for kids because we have had some very confused ones come to chat that really want help but we have to have them leave because they're under aged. The only problem with having a site for under 18 is....who's going to talk to them? More confused kids? That's one of the main reasons they come here in the first place. Also web sites are not exactly cheap and low stress so its asking a lot of Drew to just make one up. If we could at least have some links to places for kids that would be helpful. Crisis websites and things like that. Heck that would be nice to have access to for everyone for that matter. Just my :2cents:

[Driver 8]

I agree, Arana.

I think this is sort of a "belling the cat" idea - it would be great if it were done, but doing it is the hard part.

Perhaps in the meantime people could look through some of the GLBT sites aimed at teens, and try to find some of the more bi-friendly ones?

[ghytifrdnr]

Forgive my paranoia, but any time a juvenile shows up on this, or any other similar site, I have to think it might be a cop or prosecutor trying to run a sting operation and hoping to rope in a pedophile. Take care!

[Mrs. Taz]

what would be the point in posting these sites on here for the teens if they arent allowed to be on the site?

[WillowTree]

What about volunteers to moderate a teen site? We have all been young once and I'm sure quite a few of use here (if not all) would have something to contribute to the younger generation. There could be some strict guidelines and such. Just an idea to add to what has already been thrown out. I think a teen site is a fantastic idea.

[Michael623]

I think there would also be the problem of adults going to their site. Which is a huge problem. I am assuming that the liability would be too great for Drew to start a site for "kids".

[bigregory]

Lets keep um here.
I dont think a teen site could give the answers that all the people here provide.!!!!!
We, I, Us, try to keep the site clean.
They have questions ,we have some of the answers.
I guess what im saying is that its better to learn from someone thats been there done that...
I do think thats the best help we can provide.. :2cents:

[Eddie altamonte]

Forgive my paranoia, but any time a juvenile shows up on this, or any other similar site, I have to think it might be a cop or prosecutor trying to run a sting operation and hoping to rope in a pedophile. Take care!
I agree! There are too many elements of our justice system and government who just want to make names for themselves by shutting down those dangerous perverted bisexuals. They will bait and try to corral us until their sick twisted prejuidices are satisfied by some stupid jerk. Lets keep chasing them away if they want their own site let them make it on their own...I would support it in any way

[rupertbare]

OK here's my :2cents:

To "join" this site you have to click on a button that you are over 18.

Anyone going in to the chat room and claiming to be under that age is being dis-respectful to Drew and to us all.

I know that is the way of youth!!

I have taught sex ed. to the 15-20 age group and they are a tough bunch!!

There are already sites aimed at teens regarding sexuality and relationships.

If any one comes in - they must be reminded firmly that this is an over 18's site - we must take their site name and report it to Drew, immediately!!

And it is possible that some claiming to be 15 or 16 ARE either cops or "kiddie-fiddlers" looking to find others with a similar interest - they are crawling all over the web and chat rooms.

As some-one who was "abused" at the age of six (by a non-family member I hasten to add) and then again at the ages of 14 and 16 - not raped or anything - but "touched up" sexually (and I have never gone "public" about this before - but my counsellor is having a good effect on me!!).
So I am, maybe, a little more aware and disturbed by these creeps. I won't say what I think we should do with them - but let me assure you - it ain't nice!!

We, as a cyber-family, must protect this site and help Drew by reporting all such incidents at once!!!

This is our site folks - let's not let a few kids ruin it for us!!!

I'm typing this at 5:30am - so apologies for typos - but I couldn't go to bed without putting this up!! I love this site too much to see a few ruin it for the many.

Love and Peace

Rupe :)

[PeterH]

Hi all,

after what happened in chat last night, I had a look around for some sites aimed at teens.
I think one of the best ones may be bisexual.org, which is partly for under 18, partly for over 18s. The site asks your age if you want to go to specific parts (e.g. the chat)

When you say you're underage there, it gives you some links to teen sites on (bi-)sexuality. These links are:
http://www.biresource.org/youth.html
http://www.chd-prevention.org/emp_index.htm
http://www.chd-prevention.org/emp_index.htm
http://www.teenwire.com/
http://www.youth-guard.org/youth/index.html

These sites include info on local bi groups, and there is one which has a chat hour for teens, when they can ask questions to experts. There's also a site with a forum, where kids can post.

Given this info, I'd say there's quite enough online for teens as it is.
Perhaps when we see more teens in chat, we can refer them to bisexual.org, and the links this site contains.

The only thing these sites don't include, that this one does, are regular chat areas, where teens can talk among themselves. But setting up a chat for teens would be frought with problems. One would be the problem of predators (pedophiles pretending to be kids) and this is a known problem at teen sites. To prevent these problems, the chat would have to be moderated, i.e., a moderator would have to be in the chat area at all times. This would be a very costly thing to set up

So all in all, I think it is not necessary / practical to have a new site for teens
Perhaps Drew could send under 18s to bisexual.org (he might already do that, I never checked), or refer to the sites I mentioned, perhaps including some description on what they contain.

????? One last big Q from me: Drew, what's your take on all this?

Best regards, Peter

[CuddlyKate]

I am not opposed per se to to the idea of a new site, but can see difficulties with it.

When I was under 18, and that was not so long ago, I had not got a clue where to go for any help advice or simply to meet people or talk to them. People like myself. However we do come across the opposite conundrum of people under 18 coming into this site. That of paedophiles signing up for the new one and preying on the young. There is also the fact that the law within each country are different, with the UK and most of the EU for instance making the age of consent accross the board at 16, where other countries it is 18 and I think in some states of the US 21. In some American states and other nations is it still not that case that acts of homosexuality are still illegal? People shall no doubt correct me if I am wrong. Technically, in the UK, with the age of consent being 16, it is quite ok for people of that age who are bisexual or gay or straight to sign up, chat, meet and do what they wish consentially within the law with any other person who is a member and is 16 and over. This isnt the case in all other countries. It is not unkown for instance for a person from one country to meet someone from another and be prosecuted in their own country for an act they commited legally in another. This is especially so of the United States and its citizens I think. Again no doubt I shall be corrected if wrong. It is not quite as simple as the suggestion makes out. Of course there are other issues which which would have to be ironed out, but thats the real world. Difficult but not impossible, but certainly any site would be less than perfect.

And anyway why stop at 16? Are there not thousands of under 16's in every country every city and town who may require such a site to help them in their quest to find out who and what they are? Where does it end? Who are we helping? Those like ourselves, or the paedophile or as someone even pointed out the possibility of the authorities using the site as a tool to trap such people, and indeed stitch up those who may quite innocently proceed with a meeting as per my statement earlier for example regarding international meets?

Questions therefore do arise and great thought put into it before going ahead with this proposition.

love to all. Kate xxx

[Nara_lovely]

G'day.
In the age of technology, computer access...what's to stop anyone 'pretending' to be older? The 'click here if over 18' concept...there are no safeguards of proof. But I do like the suggestion that if anyone is underaged, that there be an immediate report to Drew. It is up to the community in here to make sure the report is done, even if it is discovered through a general chat or private messages.
I suspect that most of the longer term members can spot a fake straight away, from linguistic limitations to writing behaviour/styles.
Me: I worked at a youth drop-in centre for a number of years; it was scary how many teenagers had no idea about basic sexual protection (hell the idea of everyday laws of right and wrong was a challenge for many of them) but at least they could talk to a few trustworthy adults to get a better understanding. Most of them survived their street-kid teens, and learnt something along the way.

Education, open discussion and honesty is what most kids need...and that isn't sleazy! Feelings are hard to understand, confusion and inquisitiveness go hand-in-hand.

There is no solution in what I've written...but from what I've read in here, there is an enourmous wealth of genuine support and valuable insight. Is there a way to find a middle ground?

Nara :flag3:

[WillowTree]

I am in complete agreement that 18 and unders must not be allowed to come here if we discover them. (The click if you're over system is extremely flawed, but what else can you do?!) This site has links to porn, naked profile pics, etc. Not that it should not have those things, because this site is aimed at adults. I don't think a combo site is the answer either. Any adult oriented site with resources for teens is setting itself up IMHO.

I also must agree that predators are plenty on this world wide web. It is scary how easily they can find comrads or victims with so little fishing. As an abuse survivor myself, I have a huge concern for the safety of kids. (Not that someone who has never faced abuse cannot have that same concern.)

All I do know is that I was a very confused teen, 14 and even a little younger, and had I had the resources available today that might have been a little easier. And the wisdom of those here has benefited me so much as an adult, I can only imagine how much a confused kid would gain. Again, no solutions, just my :2cents: .

[OralBradley]

"All I do know is that I was a very confused teen, 14 and even a little younger, and had I had the resources available today that might have been a little easier. And the wisdom of those here has benefited me so much as an adult, I can only imagine how much a confused kid would gain."

I, too, was a VERY confused kid who was picked up by a man in a public restroom when he was 13 and went with many gay men in the ensuing years. Still when I entered the Army at 17, I thought the repeated intercourse was required to "build" the baby!!! Talok about naive. Fortunately, there is sex education in the schools now, but there is also much effort to go back to the "if they don't know, they won't be curious" mode.
Regarding the problem of preditors and potential bait, as someone below pointed out, age is something that is hard to police on the site. I have no erotic interest in anyone younger than 40 or so, but how do I know if someone is claiming to be older. I can only goon the assumption that MOST members are being honest and run like hell if something sounds fishy.
My 23-yo grandson is gay and while we talk about risks, feelings of isolation, etc. Neither of us has any erotic interest in the other.
And no, I don't blame my sexual experience at 13 to be the cause of my bisexuality. t\It was much more likely the result. I also have a niece who is lesbian!

[Tx46M]

what would be the point in posting these sites on here for the teens if they arent allowed to be on the site?

:2cents: Now that is a perceptive thought. I guess there is probably no way to be certain of ages (or gender for that matter) in any chat room, particularly one that may elicit sex chat occasionally. But i'm with you Kitten!
:male:

[Tx46M]

How would anyone know anyones age other than being able to percieve a lack of maturity?? I guess there is probably no way to be certain of ages (or gender for that matter) in any chat room, particularly one that may elicit sex chat occasionally.
:2cents: :2cents:

[FireTiger]

Wow. I never thought a thread like this would get this kind of response.
I thought it would a simpler issue that this...just get another site.

But I see the complaints. 1. Yes, they do need to hear from those who are older and more experienced about bisexuality (and sexuality in general) because they need to learn from the legacy of others that have gone before them in life

2. Yes, some of these under 18s could be cops. They're just doing their job, trying to ferret out the pedophiles and arrest them.

3. It puts a serious social division between the over18 and under18 crowd.
This IS an adult issue. It's about growing up and something that these kids will eventually grow into or are going through now. They will face similar questions sooner or later.

4. There is a serious and I think irresponsible lack of consensus on age.
In Europe, attitudes are different about sex, and the age of consent is lower, 16. America does have higher consent ages. In most states, you are still a minor until you are 18; several states it's 19
(or like someone said earlier, as high as 21).
There are laws in the US that make 18 the age of restriction for nudity, porn films and pictures and magazines, etc.

So there is a legality issue...we are a global community, but are laws are not global.

I wish we could have put more thought into this before I started the thread.
wow ! Again, I am more than impressed by the feedback.
I'm glad it raised issues that are of concern though; we need to keep the dialogue open.

[bigregory]

I typed my :2cents: and thought for sure i had solved ,what i thought an easy question.
Now im sitting here scratching my head.
We need to call the thread starter FIRESTARTER
not firetiger.
Well i hope someone can find an answer.
I trust the brains here to come up with an answer...

[WillowTree]

This IS an adult issue. It's about growing up and something that these kids will eventually grow into or are going through now. They will face similar questions sooner or later.


I just want to point out that sexuality is very much a teen issue as well as adult. The dialogue here shares what it is like to swallow, or what double penetration or anal sex may feel like, how to make those acts less painful and more about pleasure, whether or not one fancies pubic hair. Those aspects of sexuality are certainly adult ones and should not be discussed with teens other than with a responsible guardian, and then in a careful way (not explicit, etc.)

However, when I was 14 I could have come here needing guidance and said "Last night my best friend spent the night, which she's done hundreds of times. The different thing is we kissed. Well we started kissing and then other stuff happened. Lots of stuff. Does this mean I'm gay? I mean, I still like boys, at least I think I do." Had the resources been available then, I'm quite sure that is exactly what I would have asked because that is exactly what happened. What kids need to know is that things aren't always black or white, or even gay or straight as the case may be! They need to know that sexuality is complex and fluid. They need to know they are not alone.

I personally think that I have never seen people more willing to give quality advice and feedback then those here. I think that is why this thread has struck such a cord and why it was started to begin with.

I've personally thought on this all day long. It seems like a good idea to me to build a teen focused site. ALong the lines of safeguarding, one idea might also be to ban photos at such a site. Set rules stating the site is support only, not about sex (as in soliciting) or hooking up. Absolutely no porn links, nudity, and possibly profanity. There are message boards that allow you to require all posts to be approved. And in the case of chat, if people were willing to volunteer to moderate (hint hint oh wise ones) then chat would only open when a moderator was present and in chat. There could possibly be a no private message rule (or ban), except between members and moderators/and moderator to moderator. Just some thoughts...like I said it's consumed me all day. LOL Struck home you might say. I know it seems like alot of work, but to me it seems worth it.

I'm very interested as well to see Drew weigh in on this topic. Maybe we'll hear from him soon. hint hint, poke poke Drew. ;)

[csrakate]

I'm sorry..but any time you have the words teen and sex combined together, you are asking for a problem. It's not that I am against these teens having a place to turn for help, but to open a site run and advised merely by persons who have "been there and done that" is asking for trouble. These kids need the guidance of someone who is also trained to see the difference between simple confusion, sexual curiousity and true sexual preference issues. It's very easy to say that you may have felt the same way at that age, but who's to really understand the psyche of a teen who is at a sexual crossroad without knowing about more indepth issues that they might be facing. What you may have felt at that age may have nothing to do with their particular situation. Part of becoming sexually mature involves individual feelings and experiences and even though your intentions are good, you may unintentionally give advice that may further confuse them.

What I am trying to say is that if we are faced with an underaged person, maybe we can provide them with some links before we chase them off. But for anyone here to give them advice and counsel is asking for more trouble than it is worth.

Just my :2cents:

Hugs,
Kate

[Brian]

Hi all.

I think I can state with a high degree of certainty that bisexual.com and/or myself will never be directly involved in providing services to bi teens. The reason is this: adult entertainment and teen sex education / counselling are 100% incompatible. And this site, although it is informative and educational, is also a form of entertainment. It is dual-purpose.

I think if you go to some of the sites out there that help gay/bi teens you can tell that they have carefully thought about what they do and how they do it - they are NOT dual-purpose in any way. They have the checks and balances in place to make sure that all the people involved in their organization are vetted (I hope that's the right word), so that it is a safe environment for the young people they are trying to help. There is no way that I am qualified to operate such an organization; I would never even try, and have no desire to try.

So what we need to do is simply refer any teens that wander in here to the responsible, moderated sites out there. PeterH shared a good list of sites.

As someone else said, there is really no way to ensure that no teens ever join this site (other than put up a credit card screen, and start charging folks, which I won't do). So what I do is discourage them in as strong language as possible during the sign-up process. And then you all can help by reporting anyone who identifies themselves as being under 18 or seems to be under 18 to me right away. What I do is ban the person and send them a message that if they think it's a mistake they can contact me and usually suggest they google "gay teen chat moderated" or something similar so they can find a safe environment run by professionals.

I really think that's the best approach to take. Yes it's a bit cold and abrupt, but it's for everyone's protection.

- Drew :paw:

[Polybear]

Hi all.


So what we need to do is simply refer any teens that wander in here to the responsible, moderated sites out there. PeterH shared a good list of sites.

- Drew :paw:

Yes, I agree with the list of suggested sites, as well as recommending http://www.scarleteen.com as a place for information. Indeed, I do not recommend a referral to bisexual.org as much of that site is for 18+ only. As a moderator of their chatroom, I have thrown out dozens of teens through the last four years. If someone is under 18 and is geuninely looking for information, I try to inform them of sites such as scarleteen and biresource.org. On the other hand, if someone says they're under 18 and is looking for play, they're thrown out without warning or discussion.

[rupertbare]

fair 'nuff Drew, pretty much my own thinking on this question.

However, I doubt I will be sitting here with a list of sites to direct any kids to!!

Is it possible for us to direct them to somewhere easy to find, here on site, a link that is very obvious?

And yes this site both informs about matters regarding bisexuality, and sexuality in general.........

.........and entertains.........I found myself in the middle of a cyber-orgy the other morning - my first. I have seen chat about them happening - normaly as a bit of of "wind-up" aimed at some-one in particular - but had never found myself in the midle of one before.

I am, now, no longer an orgy virgin!!!

The things I get from this wonderful site......endless...and always full of surprise!

Rupe :)

[Brian]

However, I doubt I will be sitting here with a list of sites to direct any kids to!!

Rupe :)
Yeah I hear ya. That is why, when I have had to contact these teens to tell them to go elsewhere, I urge them to go to Google and search for "teen chat moderated", "gay teen chat moderated", or "gay teen support moderated" and so on. A couple of years ago I checked out the top sites on Google that showed up when searching for "gay teen chat moderated", and they all seemed to be reputable, so based on that I think it is safe to refer them to a Google search like that. It's much easier to remember than rememberring a specific site.

I thought of adding a special section to Bi Web section of teen-friendly sites, but I am afraid that that will simply encourage teens to come here. So I think the above method is best. It has worked well for me for at least the last 2 years now.

I hope that helps everyone.

- Drew :paw:

[Brian]

A couple of years ago I checked out the top sites on Google that showed up when searching for "gay teen chat moderated", and they all seemed to be reputable, so based on that I think it is safe to refer them to a Google search like that. It's much easier to remember than rememberring a specific site. Wouldn't you know it, doing that same search test now yields several sites that are adult-oriented. It's unbelievable how unethical some companies / webmasters are, that they would market adult-oriented sites to people looking for "gay teen chat moderated". There are SOME proper sites in the top 10, but not all of them.

So a better referal is to send teens to www.dmoz.org to search for "gay teen chat moderated". All sites on DMOZ are reviewed by a real person, and they have a special section for GLBT teens: http://dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/Teen_Life/Sexuality/Gay,_Lesbian,_and_Bisexual/ So if you can remember "dmoz.org" (a very good directory in general, so handy to remember for that reason too), then just refer them there to search for "gay teen chat moderated" or something similar.

- Drew :paw:

[jcorlando]

hi gang: while a lot of arguments pro and con are interesting, and the young one's could benefit from 'our wisdom', however they are still minors.

in the eyes of the law and their parents, it would not be good for them to have a separate site here or for us to encourage them. if however they come in the room under the guise of being over 18, what can one do, short of asking for a credit card or some other form of age verification?

i am just trying to look at the practical side of this, even if my heart does go out to them, answers and tolerance are good during such a hormonally difficult age ;).