Global Warming: The Other Side

[Doggie_Wood]

Some real scientific studies.

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/81583352.html


NASA has issued the following statement in response to the KUSI Special Report. This statement is from Dr. James Hansen, Director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City:

"NASA has not been involved in any manipulation of climate data used in the annual GISS global temperature analysis. The analysis utilizes three independent data sources provided by other agencies. Quality control checks are regularly performed on that data. The analysis methodology as well as updates to the analysis are publicly available on our website. The agency is confident of the quality of this data and stands by previous scientifically based conclusions regarding global temperatures." (GISS temperature analysis website: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/)


This is some interesting stuff. A little lengthy, but interesting none the less.

Doggie :doggie:

[elian]

It's the severe weather that bothers me more than anything - storms and the like just seem more powerful in the last few years. One of my friends says that I should consider that we are saturated with a lot more information, more "connected" then we have been in the past.

To me, it really doesn't matter if global warming exists or not, I mean, why wouldn't you try to conserve resources anyway? I guess that's the difference between people who have had to do without something for a while and others.

I went on a 4 mile hike once and ran out of water, it was such an odd feeling to finally get to a place that had drinkable water and see a bunch of people at the state park just tossing it around like it doesn't mean anything.

[Doggie_Wood]

What about how the polar ice caps are melting like crazy?

Just part of the cycle the earth is going through. It's done it before and will do it again.

http://www.kusi.com/home/78477082.html?video=pop&t=a

Doggie :doggie:

[Doggie_Wood]

. . . . . . why wouldn't you try to conserve resources anyway? I guess that's the difference between people who have had to do without something for a while and others.

I agree elian - conserving resorces is just as important as conserving expendatures.

Doggie :doggie:

[jem_is_bi]

It's the severe weather that bothers me more than anything - storms and the like just seem more powerful in the last few years. One of my friends says that I should consider that we are saturated with a lot more information, more "connected" then we have been in the past.

To me, it really doesn't matter if global warming exists or not, I mean, why wouldn't you try to conserve resources anyway? I guess that's the difference between people who have had to do without something for a while and others.

I went on a 4 mile hike once and ran out of water, it was such an odd feeling to finally get to a place that had drinkable water and see a bunch of people at the state park just tossing it around like it doesn't mean anything.

Once, when I hiked through the mountains in New Hamshire, I allocated water based on filling up at a mountain spring on the trail. When, I arrived at the spring it was nothing more than a mudhole and no water for miles ahead. I made a hole in the mud with my boot and waited for it to fill with (muddy) water. Fortunately, I had disinfection tablets for just such an emergeny. It did not taste wonderful but it was one of the most satisfying drinks I ever had. I am not sure that I could have made it to the next available water.
The aspect of backpacking that always amazed me is how little is truely necessary for survival and how satisfying life can be with so little that we seem to need otherwise.

[fredtyg]

Just part of the cycle the earth is going through. It's done it before and will do it again.


And what should we do with Mars? Word is, [from NASA, as well] the Mars ice caps have been melting along with the Earth's. Amazing how far the effects of pollution go.

[Doggie_Wood]

And what should we do with Mars? Word is, [from NASA, as well] the Mars ice caps have been melting along with the Earth's. Amazing how far the effects of pollution go.

I suggest you ask Al Gore that question.

Doggie :doggie:

[canuckotter]

I suggest you ask Al Gore that question.

Doggie :doggie:

And what's happening on Venus?

[void()]

Venus in trouble?

Dag nab it, there goes my vacation trip. I go to Celestia Springs on Venus once a year. That water is some of the purest in three universes. We need to stop our terrifying sacrifices of virgin goats to Morpheus. Eventually, the Psyches will get the picture that we do not negotiate with terrorists.

In all seriousness, it's good to have another view of an important subject. At the same time I feel compelled to read and look it all over, I'd rather go hang myself nude in the barn. I keep returning to a commercial for an antidepressant medicine.

"Here's a listing of all the possibly fatal side effects you should address with your doctor ...."

I think, "gee, rather just be depressed that get killed from medicine to stop depression" or, "you know, if I wasn't depressed before hearing all these side effects ... I am now."

Sorry, the information about global warming, pro or con strikes me like that. It is really horrible news either way, does it matter to my cancer riddled body? Got the cancer from breathing good old clean air. It's all the same doom & gloom.

"I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired." Also don't want to be the guy that is too poor to realize being poor is killing me.

"Ben you ought to ..."

"What the fuck, you pay the bills? No? 'right then."

Get told to relax. Yeah, sure right. Every day brings D & G, no one gets out alive.
"Fuck it, laugh if they can't take a joke."

We all live to die. Thanks Howard Cosell for the play by commentary. I was doing it so I really ought to hear what I meant, huh? I heard the Man say boo. Don't need no monkeys telling me how many different ways there are to spell boo. But that's how it be, gonna and always will. You get called nuts for not paying attention or saying it all the same.

Oh well.

[jamiehue]

today was by birthday, start livin people! before its too late see the sunrise.

[void()]

today was by birthday, start livin people! before its too late see the sunrise.

Happy birthday, sweetie. :) Hope you have a good Run Round Nakey day.

[darkeyes]

today was by birthday, start livin people! before its too late see the sunrise.

Happy birfday fro me an all Jamie hun... 1 thing me allus dus..is live life 2 the full.. :bigrin:

..but at this tima year up 'ere.. seein sunrise is jus summat that is a tadge rare.. we c a lil dark lite through the grey mizzy gloom :(.... but will soon b spring... then we c the risin a the gr8 ball a fire propa..:bigrin:

[Doggie_Wood]

:bday: Happy Globa . . . . errrrr . . . . . . Birthday to ya Jamie :bdaygrin:

[12voltman59]

Can't go runnin' 'round nakie in these parts right now----would get frostbite on some sensitive parts!!!

Spring isn't too far off though!!!!!!:bigrin:

[**Peg**]

"Green" myths debunked: (I love learning new stuff!)

http://tinyurl.com/ye5ym97

interestingly, am including an example of the temps of our past "winter" here in Ontario (the white line is our "normal" temp):

[JP1986UM]

Peg, that small of a sample is worthless scientifically. I could pull 30 bisexual people out of this group and declare bisexuality more prevalent than heterosexuality, but it really proves nothing. I've skewed the sample.

Warming and cooling happens globally all the time every 1500 years. I prefer warmer because it means more days to get naked on the beach.:bigrin:

[chuck1124]

This topic came up quite a while ago. Seems funny how the tone has changed. Good for you Fred. When I brought up the question regarding Mars, I was greeted with comments as if I were some kind of idiot, as if, what happens on Mars has no relevance on Earth. And do not take too much confidence in the comment of James Hanson. Many of his theories and conclusions have been debunked. The climate change we are experiencing is the natural cycle of the Earth. We little residence here can do very little to affect the climate, but we can effect ourselves. Conserving our resources is smart, and thrifty. and considerate of those coming after us.

[Hephaestion]

NASA have iterated their belief based on unbiased measurements and careful processing that the earth is heating up overall (regardless of routine emails of scientific self challenge in University of East Anglia).

There are periodicities in the earth's climate. However, according to previous trends we should have been heading towards another ice-age and clearly that is not happening

We are undoubtedly able to influence the environment - global dimming identifed during the 911 drop off in air travel; Ozone layer depletion is another aspect; Acidification of the oceans is yet another. It makes sense to try to limit the influence that mankind is having. Conservation of resources is simply a logical adjunct especially anything that buffers environmental changes.

The earth itself is in a quasi dynamic equilibrium. When regions heat up non uniformly then the equalisation mechanisms become more pronounced and greater periods of disturbance are felt - more droughts in places, more water in others, more powerful storms elsewhere.

The term quasi dyanmic was used because there is input from beyond the planet. One suspicion has been that the sun was altering its chemistry and increasing its output. Another suspicion has been that conversely the internal mechanisms of the sun have become quiescent for a while and are now retunring to a more usual state (indicated by sunspot activity). If this has coincided with increasing earth temperatures then a more pronounced effect is to be expected. Mars seemingly tracking earth's behaviour is troubling at the very least.

One aspect that no one seems keen on tackling is the sheer number of humans on the planet at this moment in time and projected for the future. Our normal usage of resources has exceeded the ability of the planet to replenish any of these within the space of a generation (roughly 20yrs).

It is not just about conserving - that just puts off the awful day of reckoning i.e there needs to be less of us. Problem that no one is facing is how to do this palatably. One wonders how sensible the situation surrounding people such as 'Octomom' is

Populations outgrowing their resources is a common feature in the biological world. This is followed by a population crash until either the conditions improve or some adaptation to the new norm takes place. Failure in both of these results in extinction.

This is the message in 'Soylent Green' (AKA 'More Room, More Room').

Compare this to the concept popular amongst economists and their requirment for expanding economies and increasing populations.

The UK is now the most densly populated region of the EU and unable to feed itself or supply all of its energy needs. Yet successive governments here say we need more people - hmmm!

[darkeyes]

Have never doubted we are undergoing climate change.. like many I do question whether it is man made or natural, or a combination of the two.. I suspect a combination will be the culprit, but am no expert and it seems even experts aren't brilliant at being experts.. so what do I know? Things just seem to be happening too fast for it to be simply a natural cycle of the earth.. when was the last time the northern ice field didn't exist? Yet it is under serious threat now.. and Antarctica also seeing retreating ice an most glaciers retreat at an alarming rate....

An anti climate change friend of mine only yesterday poo poo'd climate change..man made or natural... citing this freezing cold and miserable winter, the worst in England in 30 years, and the worst north of the border in 50, as her proof that global warming and climate change are figments of our imagination. To her I answered simply don't look at one winter, or even one year.. look at trends..and trends over the last quarter century and more tell us that the planet has been warming.. if in another quarter century that trend has stopped or even gone into reverse, then possibly I will change my mind about the global warming aspect of climate change.. but climate has never been that stable on this planet.. relatively so in the last 10000 years because the planet has undergone a mild spell.. that may be changing and the planet is about to warm up considerably creating all sorts of problems for life on this earth.. I am not dealing in a certainty, but I do think that at present the evidence such as it is, flawed as it is, still points to a change in our climate.. please, don't anyone get too complacent.. one severe winter in the northern hemisphere does not tell us that climate change is not happening.. that is the way of weather.. and please... those of you who say we do nothing to contribute to global warming I urge you to be more cautious in that claim... 7000 billion people spewing out so much pollution has its effect ok... just how much is arguable but it is considerable.. I still believe that and until it is proved otherwise shall remain convinced of it.. don't anyone dismiss climate change or global warming..just as one swallow does not make a summer.. one bloody awful cold winter does not mean our planet's climate is not changing and warming..

[Hephaestion]

Curiously, the British Isles are forecast to be one of those areas in the world which will be come less stable and predicable in their climate. The winters will become colder and the summers hotter often outside the expected comfort zone.

This results from the instability of the course of the jet stream that guides the endless series of high and low pressure weather systems that traverse the region together with encroaching warm waters from the south and cold water melts from the north.

The current pattern is that of cold winds dragged in from the north / east meeting warmer moist air from the atlantic resulting in freezing rain / snow out of usual season. The temperature differentials result in very tight isobars indicating high winds often of storm force.

The background concern is if the Atlantic conveyor (Gulf stream) will become unstable as well, causing an overall cooling of the climate over the British Isles. Possibly fine in summer but likely promoting severe winters more in keeping with the latitude of the region.

What the hell - let's just skip and play and ignore it all and it might just go away.

[12voltman59]

Well--I am no expert on this subject either--but one very telling big piece of evidence that has lead me to the conclusion "global warming is real"---right here in good old Ohio---sittting in a room sized walk in freezer inside a science lab at The Ohio State University in Columbus about an hour and half drive east of where I sit as I type this post---is an ever growing collection of ice core samples taken by an OSU researcher that he and his grad assistants have been collecting since the 1980s from ice fields from the top of the world to the bottom and all points in between.

In those ice cores---the good professor sampled those cores to find something interesting. Taking the data he and his team have generated from studying those cores--they have crunched that data in a set of Cray Super Computers and found the following---when they project line graphs of both the amount of "greenhouse gases" and global tempertures since the dawn of our industrialized society---the lines of global temps and greenhouse gases both rise in perfect synch with each other.

That seems like pretty compelling evidence I would have to say being a layman--but of course---his findings--in the way of good and true science---they have been replicated by other researchers around the world conducting the same sort of work. They have concluded there is most definitely a relationship with the amount of green house gases human activities puts in the atmosphere and rising atmospheric temps.

Reports of this kind did not make it into the reports you heard on places like FOX News and on shows like Rush Limbaugh, et al. They made a big deal about the crap that went on at Anglia University in the UK. No doubt that what did take place there was bad and wrong---but it does not mean that because someone "cooked the books" in that one instance then suddenly all research into global climate change was somehow irretreviably wrong and that "global warming is a massive hoax" as some would have us believe.

Climate researchers like the ones at OSU have also graphed the same sort of occurances from the distant past when there were incredibly massive releases of "greenhouse gases" with the effect then being that many parts of the earth were either frozen or roasting at the same time depending upon their location on the globe.

The thing is with the current rise in greenhouse gases and global temperatures---is that now we have the existence of humankind doing the sorts of things like driving road vehicles powered by internal combustion engines burning gasoline and diesel in their millions and we burn coal for our power.

In those previous times of massive increases in greenouse gases, they seemed to be caused by catastrophic events such as big asteroids hitting the planet or there were eruptions of "super volcanos" like the one they say that sits under Yellowstone Park.

If it erupted---our worrying about global warming would be a moot point---we would have much bigger fish to fry---same goes for a big time asteroid hitting us and wiping out most life on the planet!!

So---based on evidence like that which sit at OSU and elsewhere---my money is that global warming is real, that we humans have played a major role in creating the current conditions and we need to do something hard core to stop it---but we being human beings ao sadly we may be too stupid or stubborn to accept it and deal with it like we should!!! While many are working on the situation---many more seem to want to go with wishful thinking and putting their head in the proverbial sand on this issue---pretending it simply cannot be so.

What is funny with those who feel this way---the argument is that it would simply be too expensive to deal with global warming like some have said we need to do and that "it would change our way of life"---but the fact is---accepting that global warming is happening---it may not be total doomsday---but even our own US Department of Defense in one of its periodic "Defense Intelligence Estimates" released during the Bush Administration warned of major disruptions in the world from things like massive migrations of populations away from coastal areas of the world threatened by rising sea levels on one hand and wars being fought over ever decreasing water supplies on the other---so it could be a grim future thanks to global warming.

That particular "D.I.E." said that climate change poses a greater threat to world peace, stability and the world economy than does global, islamist based terrorism.

But I guess we don't have to really worry all about that global warming stuff--Fat Man Rush, Bill O'Lielly, Ann "Adams Apple" Coulter and the rest assure us that global warming is not real but just a figment of the demented imaginations of the liberalistas!!!!

[MarieDelta]

But I guess we don't have to really worry all about that global warming stuff--Fat Man Rush, Bill O'Lielly, Ann "Adams Apple" Coulter and the rest assure us that global warming is not real but just a figment of the demented imaginations of the liberalistas!!!!


Could we not use being transgender as an insult? Please just once?

[thatcher29]

It's too bad they call it "Global Warming" because the correct terminology should be More Intense Weather. It's going to be like you turned up the blender another notch. Some places might get more snow. Some places might get a lot hotter and have droughts. If the Gulf Stream shuts down then the British Isles will have a climate like Norway.

I never have understood the right wing opposition to the belief in Climate Change. I can think of many political reasons to cut back on our oil consumption that should appeal to them. But in the long run, some people create their own realities and believe what they want to believe.

[Annika L]

Kali from Hindu mythology meets Alice in Wonderland.

I said to myself earlier tonight (when I saw the misogyny on bemyonlyone's thread), "I'll bet it won't be long before we hear the expression 'closet case'...and then will come the trans-bashing." And then voila! Lonewolf's thread and now this one!

I think I'm psychic.

[darkeyes]

... 7000 billion people spewing out so much pollution has its effect ok...

Meant 2 say 7000 million.. if ther wer 7000 billion, British or 'merican billion.. don fancy our chances...:(

..wosn on the plonk..honest..;)

[darkeyes]

Curiously, the British Isles are forecast to be one of those areas in the world which will be come less stable and predicable in their climate. The winters will become colder and the summers hotter often outside the expected comfort zone.

This results from the instability of the course of the jet stream that guides the endless series of high and low pressure weather systems that traverse the region together with encroaching warm waters from the south and cold water melts from the north.

The current pattern is that of cold winds dragged in from the north / east meeting warmer moist air from the atlantic resulting in freezing rain / snow out of usual season. The temperature differentials result in very tight isobars indicating high winds often of storm force.

The background concern is if the Atlantic conveyor (Gulf stream) will become unstable as well, causing an overall cooling of the climate over the British Isles. Possibly fine in summer but likely promoting severe winters more in keeping with the latitude of the region.

What the hell - let's just skip and play and ignore it all and it might just go away.

We in deep doo doo if it switches off altogetha, Heph... wotched a documentary on telly last year an ther is evidence that the conveyor weakenin now cos of the meltin of the Arctic Ice wich feeds it.... an 1ce it stops..is evidently not very easy for it 2 switch back on... an meltin ice means less land for us 2 live on.. already sum low lyin' Pacific Islands r beginnin 2 drown.. Vanuata for instance.. so those who say peeps will hav 2 evacuate coastal areas r rite.. Sri Lanka has a particular problem here.. millions liv on a very low lyin coast an suffer dreadfully wiv sea levels as they r now at times.. an tides r risin'..that fact is undisputed...

[void()]

I'm waiting on the new Ice Age, truly I am. From my limited humble understanding of it all the world is like a greenhouse. It gets too hot it'll cool itself off. Last time was an Ice Age. What goes round comes round and all.

Besides the clamouring yak heads pronouncing it all there was recently an indicator I trust put out in the news. The S.A.S and S.B.S were training in Greenland ( I think it said) for cold weather search / rescue, combat situations. The good Mum usually has 'the lads' out for purpose.

Void goes back to his imagined beach. "Somebody bring the beer / ale / lager. I got a cask of rum. Oh darn, forget a tap." Void grins, watches the sun rise.

[12voltman59]

Sorry Marie----I just could not help myself----I guess I should of called her "conservative frat boy skank!" since the rap on her is that she when she does speaking engagements at colleges, she is said to "like to party" (if ya catch my drift) with the conservative frat boys!! LOL but that would offend frat boys or something--always dammed if ya do or whatever!!!

The point is---I cannot stomach the woman---as far as she is concerned--since I am a "liberal"---I am evil, communist/socialist, anti-American, Satan worshiper who offers up children on an altar to the Dark Lord, a traitor who at the least should be thrown out of America, if not shot, since I want to see the country fail and all that shit!!!

I don't have any problem dissing people like Glenn Beck, Coulter or Limbaugh---since they are public figures who make millions by, in my view,---helping to take us down since they set a tone across the land that makes it hard for people to both reasonably discuss problems like global warming and then get to work on doing the things we need to do to fix it. They write best selling books and pollute the airwaves day after day by casting aspersions on and demonizing anyone who does not believe as they do----they do nothing at all positive for the problems that face us---they only bitch and moan about things---and fire they up people so they won't do anything substantive other than hold "Tea Parties" and crap like that.

Marie--I do apologize for making that comment, though!

[Hephaestion]

1) BiCD4u "......It makes me wonder what the space shuttles really do when they go into orbit and spend time at the space station. Gathering resources from other worlds without the masses knowing?......."

One aspect of space travel that has been 'revealed' recently is that the man made objects in orbit around the earth tend to be covered in a thin film of human excrement that has been jetisoned over the years. So the answer is "they collect crap". (This is in keeping with the original observation made about the earlier Russian space station which was that 'it smelled/smelt mouldy inside').


2) 12Voltman59 "......a traitor who at the least should be thrown out of America, if not shot, since I want to see the country fail and all that shit!!!..."

Volty you need to stop massaging your temples with the higher voltage electrodes.

[FalconAngel]

There are three schools of thought on global warming/cooling.

One is that global warming all man made. Completely outrageous.

The second is that it is all naturally occurring and man has nothing to do with it. Completely ignorant of mans effect on the environment.

The third, and the one with the most scientific evidence to back it, is that global warming and cooling goes through naturally occurring cycles of heating and cooling, but as man has become more and more industrialized, we are making the effects more severe than they would be, under natural cycles alone with the pre-industrialized societies that we used to have.

I subscribe to that theory. We just finished a mini-ice age in the late-mid 1800's, so a cooling cycle was finishing off as the 1900's came about and a warming cycle was beginning.

If the warming cycle continues as it has in the past, then we are looking at a few hundred years as it gets worse, then cycles down with cooler temps and less severe weather happening near the end of the cycle.

The last cooling cycle (mini-ice age) lasted about 300 years.

[MarieDelta]

Sorry Marie----I just could not help myself----I guess I should of called her "conservative frat boy skank!" since the rap on her is that she when she does speaking engagements at colleges, she is said to "like to party" (if ya catch my drift) with the conservative frat boys!! LOL but that would offend frat boys or something--always dammed if ya do or whatever!!!

The point is---I cannot stomach the woman---as far as she is concerned--since I am a "liberal"---I am evil, communist/socialist, anti-American, Satan worshiper who offers up children on an altar to the Dark Lord, a traitor who at the least should be thrown out of America, if not shot, since I ....

Marie--I do apologize for making that comment, though!

Apology accepted. She's not a big fan of the transgender community, nor are we big fans of hers, for the most part.

[12voltman59]

I agree with much of what Falcon said above--as far as doing things in a different way---we know that at some point---we will be running out of fossil fuels---we do know that their use has negative impacts on the environment--forget global warming---we are talking about releases of things like Mercury into the atmosphere, we know that exposure to Mercury has very negative health impacts on people---forget the poor animals. (Mercury is one of the many byproducts released in the burning of coal to generate electricity and contrary to the industry hype about "clean coal"--that is technology that is still in the development phase and is untested with the prime part of that being "carbon sequestration" which means they pump the bad stuff into the ground---but we have no idea what that would do---in many places---drinkiing water is pulled from underground aquifers that often stretch for hundreds of miles so some of them are bound to be near coal fired power generating stations where they propose to pump the coal burining waste products into the ground.)

We are in the process of developing other ways of generating power, running our machines and technology which is all good---everything has its time and then its time to move on--i-t is time we make in earnest---the transition away from using coal, oil and other fossil fuels.

The fact is---we in the US think we have "cheap energy" now with those forms of energy---but the reality is---those forms of energy get massive breaks from government in terms of either direct monies, subsidies or through tax policy that offsets their direct actualy cost---like someone said in that joking post about England taking control of America again----we in the states sure do have artificially cheap gas compared to just about everyone else---they pay more for gasoline in most of the places they drill the oil than we do!!!

What they need to do to really force the change over here in the US away from fossil fuels is to start actually making us pay the full cost of what it takes to drill the oil, ship it from the oilfields to the loading stations, shipping the crude oil here from points all over the world, refine the oil and ship it to the local gas staion so we can pump it into our tanks---if that happened---we would find a way off gasoline in a New York nanosecond!!!

You hear politicians bitching and reisisting giving substantive tax breaks and such to alternate forms of energy--if do they give them---its only for a limited time and then they don't renew those policies just as those new forms are getting on their feet---now wonder why that happens??? Could it be that those who provide "old energy" are spreading their money around to keep their favored status and to keep alt forms from reaching the point of breaking even and becoming cost effective???

Naw---couldn't be---that is so cynical to think that!!! :bigrin:

It does make sense to make the change to other forms of energy---it is happening finally, slowly---it will take awhile---but it should move faster---we here in the US and in Europe need to develop long term plans to make those changes.

Here in the US---since we have shipped so many of our jobs elsewhere---with most of those jobs never coming back---we need a way to help keep our economy going for the vast majority of people and I think, as do others, that new energy forms that are coming are the answer for us to grow our economy and to create the good paying jobs of the future.

I almost wished the whole issue of global warming would go away since for many people---they seem to have a gut reaction to reject anything so "touchy-feely" as the environment and such---but we need to reframe things to stress that first---fossil fuels are of the past and that second, "green" energy forms are the future and they mean JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!!!!

Sorry Sarah---"Drill, baby, Drill" maybe a short term answer---but it won't get us to where we need to be---so why continue to waste money on dying technology????

[kegspoon]

7th grade science experiment, 47 yrs ago. Floating ice, when it melts, will not raise the water level. Isn't the Arctic, floating ice? Just something to ponder.

[darkeyes]

7th grade science experiment, 47 yrs ago. Floating ice, when it melts, will not raise the water level. Isn't the Arctic, floating ice? Just something to ponder.

Not at all.. not all arctic ice is sea ice... thats the problem..and very little antarctic ice is sea ice...

[FalconAngel]

7th grade science experiment, 47 yrs ago. Floating ice, when it melts, will not raise the water level. Isn't the Arctic, floating ice? Just something to ponder.

Except that you are forgetting one important thing........only one polar cap is floating ice. All of the land based ice has to go somewhere when it melts. That ice will cause sea levels to rise. Not sure how much, but it will have some effect on sea levels.

And those sub-polar regions are showing a reduction in freezing and and a reduction of the permafrost that had existed before.

[Hephaestion]

FalconAngel "...I subscribe to that theory. We just finished a mini-ice age in the late-mid 1800's, so a cooling cycle was finishing off as the 1900's came about and a warming cycle was beginning...."

That was a 'cold spell'. A proper 'ice age' is of deeper effect and longer duration. Even including the cycles mentioned, we were headed towards one of the latter. But that has been deflected.

More people, more burden on the environment

[darkeyes]

Except that you are forgetting one important thing........only one polar cap is floating ice. All of the land based ice has to go somewhere when it melts. That ice will cause sea levels to rise. Not sure how much, but it will have some effect on sea levels.

And those sub-polar regions are showing a reduction in freezing and and a reduction of the permafrost that had existed before.

If all ice on the planet melted..sea levels wuv b 'bout 300' higher than they r now.. now thats summat 2 think 'bout...

[Doggie_Wood]

If all ice on the planet melted..sea levels wuv b 'bout 300' higher than they r now.. now thats summat 2 think 'bout...

Fran - that means that the coastal shoreline will be near Waco and I won't have far to drive to the beaches. :tongue:

Doggie :doggie:

[darkeyes]

Fran - that means that the coastal shoreline will be near Waco and I won't have far to drive to the beaches. :tongue:

Doggie :doggie: If by sum miracle we manage 2 keep the population we hav now tho Doggie, or if we manage sumhow 2 keep it growin at owt like the present rate.. 1stly it will take ya 10 or 12 hours 2 get ther, an 2cdly 1ce ya dus get ther.. jus wer ya gonna find a place 2 laze in sun.. or hav lil swim 2 cool off???:tong: ..an the Q's for ice cream will b horrendous...:eek:

[12voltman59]

7th grade science experiment, 47 yrs ago. Floating ice, when it melts, will not raise the water level. Isn't the Arctic, floating ice? Just something to ponder.

Arctic ice is not a problem but the ice that sits on the continent of the Antarctic is a problem---it is a huge continent with ice a mile deep or so on most of it---and that is a problem since it is apparently sliding off the land mass of that continent at a increasing rate---the same thing for the ice sheets of Greenland--if a lot of the ice in both places make it to sea and melt--many people are fucked around the world---ask the people who lived till recently on some island nations out in the Pacific---they have already seen their homes go under the sea having to find other places to live---I am sure the Australians on here can tell us about that---Australia has taken people in from many of those places (that has met with some controversy) and many others are threatened with having to abandon their homelands too like the Maldives---and we are talking about a rise in sealevel of ONLY a few feet at this point--same with Venice, Italy-its future is threatened--along with entire parts of the Netherlands---the Dutch government is already making plans to no longer pump the water from much of their nation---they are going to let the sea have it back---but they have plans to basically make huge floating complexes that they can put people and farms on.

England itself is in danger too---there are plans already underway to cede land to the sea and there are fears that the Greater London area itself may not be sustainable as a place that can be kept from flooding and being lost to the sea. There are large regions of northern England that the UK government seems to be ready to let be taken as well.

We already are seeing the results of whatever you call what is going on with the climate---and whatever its source---it is stupid to argue over things like who is to blame and all---this is happening and it is already having impacts on the lives of many people and that number is only going to go up as time goes by.

They are saying that now---in the not too distant future---the peoples of the arctic up in Canada and Alaska may not be able to live there anymore because the tundra no longer freezes hard for very long and it will become too soft for them to keep their settlements there.

Of course---maybe we will get another mini-ice age come and they will be covered with ice---either way---those places will be uninhabitable with more hundreds of thosands of people being "climate change" refugees.

Think of the cost of relocating "JUST" hundreds of thousands of people!!!!

Like it or not---climate change is here and its going to impact the lives of just about every creature living on this planet!!

By the way---all of what I am saying here has been reported on and you can find it all out if ya want---I will let you go check it out if ya don't believe me. I encourage you to do so---don't take my word for it!! Go educate yourself on this topic!!

[darkeyes]

Agree with you Voltie mostly and Antarctic ice is the most serious real problem... since something over 90% of the world's ice is locked in there.. but don't underestimate the threat from the Arctic.. there is enough land ice there alone to raise sea levels quite considerably should it all melt.. and added to the melt from glaciers and other land based snow fields around the planet we can't afford complacency.. It is quite plain for all to see that there is also a serious melt on Antarctica with the ice retreating at an ever increasing rate of knots.. and we are talking ice several miles in thickness. Beneath the ice caps there are increasing numbers of lakes being created, and of those already known, these are becoming larger year on year.

.. but we don't have to worry about climate change..do we???

[locotom]

just caught this interview from the man who proposed the gaia theory

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8594000/8594561.stm

so we might as well just enjoy ourselves and not worry as theres nowt we can do about it

[FalconAngel]

FalconAngel More people, more burden on the environment

That is our greatest impact, not from the population itself, there is, after all, plenty of land to use, but that land is not always able to be used for growing the needed food stocks for the population.

The point is that we are causing a huge amount of destruction to the very ecosystem that is required to clean the atmosphere of harmful gasses and replenish the usable air supply on the planet. The same ecosystem that we need to survive, in the first place.

Most of that is from man's inability to realize that having dominion over the Earth also means that we must also be the guardians of the Earth.

We, as a species, have forgotten that one basic lesson, destroying species after species, thinking that it is never going to disappear on us, and now all of us, as well as our progeny, are going to be paying the piper for it; for many decades to come.

[Hephaestion]

Agree FalconAngel.

Also locotom - I listened to the interview this morning as broadcast. The 'career' aspect is worrying. I remain optimistic nevertheless.