Queer?? Go and get stuffed...

[darkeyes]

I loathe the word queer when used to refer to gay people. It means in our language odd or unusual. I have argued till I am blue in the face that gay, bisexual and trans people are anything but queer. They simply are.... they are human beings with cares and concerns, with loves and hates, with passions just like any straight person.. it was the straight world who began to refer to us as queer.. more accurately to non straight men. We are who we are. We are human beings who should have the respect of all other human beings. It doesnt matter our or anyone elses sexuality. What matters is that they treat us with respect and compassion..

.. as long as there are those among us, and those among the straight community who look on those who are not straight as queer, we and our kind shall always be considered as second class citizens, not only by the straight community, but our own....

I am NOT queer... I am a gay woman.. I am a human being... I am not queer.. I simply am....

[TwylaTwobits]

Well said, Darkeyes.

[12voltman59]

I found this:

queer (kwîr)
adj. queer·er, queer·est
1. Deviating from the expected or normal; strange: a queer situation.
2. Odd or unconventional, as in behavior; eccentric. See Synonyms at strange.
3. Of a questionable nature or character; suspicious.
4. Slang Fake; counterfeit.
5. Feeling slightly ill; queasy.
6. Offensive Slang Homosexual.
7. Usage Problem Of or relating to lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, or transgendered people.


From some of the definitions---I surely do fall into several of those definitions to some degree---mainly aspects of Defs 1 and 2 --the others---not so much--I hope, at least, especially not defs 3 and 4!! :bigrin::bigrin:;) I sometimes do feel Def 5 though!! I don't like Def 6 that is for sure and Def 7 under this entry is kinda "queer" if ya ask me!

I don't know if I do accept the term in the way that Frannie is talking about.

[darkeyes]

I found this:

queer (kwîr)
adj. queer·er, queer·est
1. Deviating from the expected or normal; strange: a queer situation.
2. Odd or unconventional, as in behavior; eccentric. See Synonyms at strange.
3. Of a questionable nature or character; suspicious.
4. Slang Fake; counterfeit.
5. Feeling slightly ill; queasy.
6. Offensive Slang Homosexual.
7. Usage Problem Of or relating to lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, or transgendered people.


From some of the definitions---I surely do fall into several of those definitions to some degree---mainly aspects of Defs 1 and 2 --the others---not so much--I hope, at least, especially not defs 3 and 4!! :bigrin::bigrin:;) I sometimes do feel Def 5 though!! I don't like Def 6 that is for sure and Def 7 under this entry is kinda "queer" if ya ask me!

I don't know if I do accept the term in the way that Frannie is talking about.

S'ok...do sum readin... an sum thinkin.. queer is a str8 word used 2 describe us an demean us..ya don havta accept wot me sez... don alter the reality..until we start battlin gainst it..we will always b second class citizens...

[Doggie_Wood]

S'ok...do sum readin... an sum thinkin.. queer is a str8 word used 2 describe us an demean us..ya don havta accept wot me sez... don alter the reality..until we start battlin gainst it..we will always b second class citizens...

only be 2nd class citizens if we let em make us that - you'll always be a first class tart in me book Franz. :impleased

Doggie :doggie:

[tenni]

darkeyes
I agree with most that you wrote. One question popped in my wonky brain.

If bisexuals were treated with respect would we still need compassion?

I think not. We would just be like anyone else....

Some have brown hair. Some have blonde hair. ...oh maybe a bad example as a lot of those blondes are really brownies wanna be blondes:bigrin:

[mikey3000]

Funny thing is I haven't heard the word queer for many years, except by gays in their own community.

[djones]

Thanks for the post !

And thanks for posting it without the Scottish accent written in ! No offense, mind you, just that it makes it really hard for us dyslexics to read you (hearing a Scottish accent is groovy though !).

Going along with an earlier thread - even though the gay community has appropriated the word queer to take the sting out of it, it still is a derogatory term that only separates one social group from another. Even when used within the gay community, it is still used to separate from the straights.

I for one feel no association with any derogatory term - hence, queer I aint !

[fredtyg]

Sorry, as I've mentioned before, I prefer to be referred to as anything but gay. Call me homo (which I prefer), queer, or a fag. I just hate the Gay label. It just sounds so, well, GAY!

[jem_is_bi]

Neither do I like the name queer being applied to gay people.
However, I am not very comfortable with gay either. What would they really prefer to say? Queer is a word that is not politically correct, like gay, but not excessively insulting. Rather, it is divisive rather than inclusive. That makes me uncomfortable to hear it used.

[Georgie_Girl]

Lovely post, Darkeyes. :) I've never liked the word.
On a side not, I know a gay guy who hates the word gay. He says "The G Word."

[coyotedude]

I wonder if use and acceptance of the term is related to geography and generation, at least in part.

To be perfectly honest, I am having to train myself to use the word queer because it is by and large the accepted term within the community that I am in contact with locally. I say "by and large" because there are gays and lesbians even here (many of whom in older generations) who still reject the word for many of the same reasons that Fran does. Yet the younger generation in particular has become quite insistent on use of the word "queer" to describe this community, at least in my little corner of the world.

Language is organic, not static. Language ebbs and flows as people and cultures develop and attitudes and assumptions change over time. This is certainly not the only instance where an oft-repressed community has attempted to "reclaim" previously disparaging terminology in an effort to redefine meaning and assert identity. Whether such efforts are wise or foolish, however, I honestly do not know.

Peace

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I grew up in a time, and region to where the word queer was used in a demeaning and horrible way to discribe some great people. Ask anyone who grew up in the Southern states like I did...
We were taught that a "Queer" was a man to be seen as an "Abomination and pervert of nature" and was to be feared, even for little girls.
I hated that word, for it was just a way for uneducated, narrow minded bigots to discribe some really great people.
It all depends on how it was used, how folks wre raised to believe things, how it was said and meant as in sick, twisted, odd or different. A bad connetation for some good people...:( They arent Queer, they are just people.
Cat

[darkeyes]

darkeyes
I agree with most that you wrote. One question popped in my wonky brain.

If bisexuals were treated with respect would we still need compassion?

I think not. We would just be like anyone else....

Some have brown hair. Some have blonde hair. ...oh maybe a bad example as a lot of those blondes are really brownies wanna be blondes:bigrin:

'Course we wud need compassion.. we r both deservin of it an entitled 2 recieve it in return... we r human.. we think... we care.. well most of us do... an 1 thing Tenni..far as me can c.. no 1 is jus like ne 1 else.. gay, str8, bi or trans or ne thin else.. we r all unique.. but compassion is summat we shud nev do wivout..

[darkeyes]

Lovely post, Darkeyes. :) I've never liked the word.
On a side not, I know a gay guy who hates the word gay. He says "The G Word."

Know a cuppla guys who h8 it an all Georgie.. hav no problem wiv it mesel... its a positive word an not at all demeanin.. an wosn it the gay world that coined it for themsels?? But me also LOATHES the word faggot.. wen me hears peeps callin guys a faggot me hackles rise an usually havta say summat... got mesel a slap in face 1ce for it from 1 daft bastard...

[tenni]

Darkeyes
The meaning of compassion is (n.) Literally, suffering with another; a sensation of sorrow excited by the distress or misfortunes of another; pity; commiseration.
(v. t.) To pity.

If bisexuals, GLT individuals were respected and accepted as equally as someone having brown eyes or blue eyes or green eyes, what would there be to pity? There would be no need to see bisexuality as a misfortune.

Coyotedude
What community are you referrring to?
I agree that the reclaiming of the word queer may be age specific or sub cultural grouping. I'm not so sure that it is geographically specific as much as whether a bisexual leans more towards identifying with a GLBT as a member of an identifiable group.

I can only assume that you mean a GLBT community which the individual may or may not be a group that a bisexual identifies with. I think that some bisexuals, perhaps like yourself, wish to belong to this wide group while others may not identify with it at all. We may identify as a member of a bisexual group but not with a group that perceives the word "queer" as a positive word to use. I think that those who perceive using the word queer as a "reclaiming" are identifying with a societal sub group and use it like a "coded" language amongst themselves. The mainstream does not see the word "queer" as a positive thing. If you stay clostered in a group where the word is acceptable, then fine....but it won't be accepted in the English speaking mainstream community for quite a while...if ever.



'Course we wud need compassion.. we r both deservin of it an entitled 2 recieve it in return... we r human.. we think... we care.. well most of us do... an 1 thing Tenni..far as me can c.. no 1 is jus like ne 1 else.. gay, str8, bi or trans or ne thin else.. we r all unique.. but compassion is summat we shud nev do wivout..

[darkeyes]

Darkeyes
The meaning of compassion is (n.) Literally, suffering with another; a sensation of sorrow excited by the distress or misfortunes of another; pity; commiseration.
(v. t.) To pity.

If bisexuals, GLT individuals were respected and accepted as equally as someone having brown eyes or blue eyes or green eyes, what would there be to pity? There would be no need to see bisexuality as a misfortune.

Coyotedude
What community are you referrring to?
I agree that the reclaiming of the word queer may be age specific or sub cultural grouping. I'm not so sure that it is geographically specific as much as whether a bisexual leans more towards identifying with a GLBT as a member of an identifiable group.

I can only assume that you mean a GLBT community which the individual may or may not be a group that a bisexual identifies with. I think that some bisexuals, perhaps like yourself, wish to belong to this wide group while others may not identify with it at all. We may identify as a member of a bisexual group but not with a group that perceives the word "queer" as a positive word to use. I think that those who perceive using the word queer as a "reclaiming" are identifying with a societal sub group and use it like a "coded" language amongst themselves. The mainstream does not see the word "queer" as a positive thing. If you stay clostered in a group where the word is acceptable, then fine....but it won't be accepted in the English speaking mainstream community for quite a while...if ever.

You do talk such tosh sometimes Tenni.. I do not wish to be pitied for what I am. I wish only understanding and acceptance of it. I do not want pity, sympathetic or otherwise because I am lesbian. I wish only to be accepted as a member of the human race who happens to be gay. So should you want it as a bisexual. Or do you want to go through life being pitied? Maybe you do. I think you should sit down and have a long think about what your priorities are and what you want out of life.

[darkeyes]

.. and the fact that you see bisexuality as a misfortune, Tenni.. that I think is deserving of pity..... but dont be surprised if you get some scorn instead.. not everyone has my compassion..:)

[tenni]

Hmm Are we going in a circular discussion? You used the word compassion and not me? I thought that it was you who wrote that bisexuals need compassion? Don't confuse me missy fran. that may be too easy this morning to have happen...:eek:


.. and the fact that you see bisexuality as a misfortune, Tenni.. that I think is deserving of pity..... but dont be surprised if you get some scorn instead.. not everyone has my compassion..:)

[invisible911]

I loathe the word queer when used to refer to gay people. It means in our language odd or unusual. I have argued till I am blue in the face that gay, bisexual and trans people are anything but queer. They simply are.... they are human beings with cares and concerns, with loves and hates, with passions just like any straight person.. it was the straight world who began to refer to us as queer.. more accurately to non straight men. We are who we are. We are human beings who should have the respect of all other human beings. It doesnt matter our or anyone elses sexuality. What matters is that they treat us with respect and compassion..

.. as long as there are those among us, and those among the straight community who look on those who are not straight as queer, we and our kind shall always be considered as second class citizens, not only by the straight community, but our own....

I am NOT queer... I am a gay woman.. I am a human being... I am not queer.. I simply am....

Those who use hate as their crayon only draw a dark and deadly future for themselves and all who follow. Morgan

[darkeyes]

Hmm Are we going in a circular discussion? You used the word compassion and not me? I thought that it was you who wrote that bisexuals need compassion? Don't confuse me missy fran. that may be too easy this morning to have happen...:eek:

U can use the word as often asya like Tenni.. an hav as much compassion an all.. thats as it shud b..its wy ya have compassion for peeps an wy ya need 2hav it an wen.. jus cos peeps hav blue eyes or brown, r blonde or brunette, r in themsels no reason 2 have compassion.. an fact that Im gay u r Bi an me mum is str8, they r no reasons in themsels for compassion eitha... ther may b a time wen ne or alla these r deservin a compassion but in themsels... they jus r...

..an don mean 2 confuse ya hun... tho on occasion hav been known 2 hav made peeps blow a gasket..:tong:

[coyotedude]

Coyotedude
What community are you referrring to?
I agree that the reclaiming of the word queer may be age specific or sub cultural grouping. I'm not so sure that it is geographically specific as much as whether a bisexual leans more towards identifying with a GLBT as a member of an identifiable group.

I can only assume that you mean a GLBT community which the individual may or may not be a group that a bisexual identifies with. I think that some bisexuals, perhaps like yourself, wish to belong to this wide group while others may not identify with it at all. We may identify as a member of a bisexual group but not with a group that perceives the word "queer" as a positive word to use. I think that those who perceive using the word queer as a "reclaiming" are identifying with a societal sub group and use it like a "coded" language amongst themselves. The mainstream does not see the word "queer" as a positive thing. If you stay clostered in a group where the word is acceptable, then fine....but it won't be accepted in the English speaking mainstream community for quite a while...if ever.

I can't speak for other parts of the English speaking world. However, in the US Pacific Northwest, many gay, lesbian, and trans people have adopted the word "queer" as an umbrella term to identify themselves and the LGBT community as a whole. This identification appears to be particularly strong with younger individuals and those who espouse more radical, less mainstream political leanings. In this context, acceptance of the term in the English-speaking mainstream community is largely irrelevant; use of the term involves self-identity and the differentiation of the LGBT community from mainstream society.

Whether bisexuals identify as "queer" or should do so is an open question. The question goes beyond our individual comfort level with the term itself (though such discomfort is perfectly legitimate). Do we as bisexuals identify with the larger community of gay, lesbian, and trans people? Does the "B" really belong in "LGBT"? I asked that question in another thread, and the results from our online community seem to be mixed.

I honestly don't have an answer or a preference. I think that many of us here are wary of any sort of label. Just in our online community, do we even agree on what the word "bisexual" really means? How then can we expect any agreement on the word "queer"?