what is he and how long do i wait [Archive]

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confused wife

Jan 21, 2010, 3:56 AM

New years eve and my husband is sniping at me so i ask what have i done? he says i have to tell you something, so sit down, I am afraid he is ill so i do as he asks he then tells me he is bi sexual wow never saw that coming, OK its a shock but he then tells me he is talking to a man in Chile and is in love with him that hurt, he has never been with a guy before and states he is coming to the UK in June he will go and see if its him or me he wants then tell me, but he wants me to wait for him like a safety net if it all goes wrong this is tearing me apart as he has been talking to him since last September,and says he loves him we have been married 14 years and he tells me there is nothing wrong with our marriage and he loves me dearly, but he doesnt want us both after June it will be him or me , and every night i have to go to bed knowing he is talking and doing whatever down stairs on web cam, yes i have screamed at him cried with him and tried to end my life but he still carries on now telling me i am the selfish one as it is 2 different worlds, but they crashed together the day he told me , I have come on here for help as there doesnt seem to be anywhere for me to turn, M is my world and it isn't worth being here if he's not in it someone please help me keep my sanity

Long Duck Dong

Jan 21, 2010, 5:10 AM

ok there is no easy, watered down way to say this,.....

there is no reason at all for you to be his safety net..... you are his partner, his wife, his spouse but not his reserve parachute.....

this is the trouble with a lot of bisexual people, we make our bisexuality, your burden to bear, and thats a rat shit thing to do.... its inconsiderate and selfish.... and as you have seen, something that is used by bisexuals as the * you do not understand * excuse....

my advice is cold and cruel, but honestly, there is no nice way to say to a person that they need to look at the end of their marriage.....

the reason i say that, is for 14 years you have been a partner, lover, wife and possibly a mother too..... but even if your husband makes up his mind that he is staying with you, there will be the naggling thought in the back of your mind about how long til the next time.... and that is a person killer... and not something that is fair on ANY PERSON

I accept that 14 years is a lot to put into a marriage and its hard to walk away from it on the advice of a stranger half way around the world, that you do not know and will never meet..... so yeah... I would expect you to question if my advice is good advice.... and all I can say to that.... is that your husband is doing the same thing...risking it all based around a person half way around the world..... so maybe.... just maybe.... my advice is not that bad....

but again, walking away from 14 years of marriage, even with the chance that your husband will remain with you, is something that will give anybody hope.... and believe me, i understand that.... letting go is not easy.... specially cos of the issues it can cause, .. gossip, rumours, etc.... cos you can quarantee tongues will waggle... and that is something that can do a lot of damage......

finally, my dear, why am I not saying stay and fight for your husband...... ok
yeah ya marriage is worth fighting for... but so is your sanity and peace of mind...... and you are already understanding how hard it is to go to bed to sleep, knowing that your husband is entertaining others and tho you know about it now,... it can make you second question every aspect of your 14 years in the marriage, and even if you can save the marriage, if its going to save the marriage at your expense and what cost to you

I am not saving to get a divorce to hurt your husband.... as he will end up hurting himself regardless of the outcome.... but cos you have about 6 months to prepare yourself for possibly the end of your marriage, and its easier with 6 months warning... than 2 weeks.......

not all bisexuals are like that, many of us would never think of doing something like that..... but sadly there are us amongst us and not just bisexuals, that have the catch phrase of * my rights *.... and they tend to forget that a marriage is a two person thing and its * our rights *

my prayers are with you, confused wife.... I do wish there was some simple easy solution.... but... experience has taught me that there is not..... and surviving this with the marriage still salvagable would be nice, but it takes two people that really want to work it work.... ...however, until the final string is cut... there is always hope....

NEPHX

Jan 21, 2010, 6:23 AM

Ok, you're at risk.... You know that or you wouldn't be here with the comment about taking your life. You know what you have to do.... I think you'll find many more posts just like mine later today.

I hope some of this helps.

Firstly, he appears to be caught up in something he doesn't yet fully understand. I'd say he NEEDS help. Rarely is a healthy relationship developed online across thousands of miles of ocean with a decision point to leave one's spouse - not very rational.... Think about it.. who can commit, honestly, to some person (guy or girl) from only online and never met. I can bet it will fall on its sword. If he were dating locally, that's another story.

Secondly, he may well have been with a guy(s) before but, since he has told you he thinks he is bisexual or says he is bisexual, then that's pretty good for any married person. He doesn't even know if he would enjoy male sexual acts... after all, its just assisted masturbation at this point. I'd say he's crying out for help. If his behavior is way out of his norm (which it sounds like), you know its something he needs help with. Its tough come out to a spouse (generally). But, I'd also say you need to ask him point blank to be honest and tell you if he has been "out and about." (If so, was he safe, if not, you all need to be tested, etc. nuf said.) And, I'd try to keep your emotional responses in check. He may very well be looking for your "take" on things, saying he's going to go off to Chile or whatever.

Watch out too.. start keeping close eye on finances. There are many scammers that say they are going to meet someone far away. Then, at the last minute, they need money for some reason or other for the ticket because grandma died (for the 10th time). They get the money and you know how that story ends. I have a number of friends who have gotten caught up in such schemes but they kept good counsel and later can't believe they almost fell for the scheme. These are all very educated, mature people, sometimes couples that say it seemed so very real.

I'd also say you MUST insist he get into personal therapy immediately if you wish to protect yourself, him and your marriage (honestly, in THAT order). And, with a therapist that is gay/bi/lifestyle friendly. Tough love for your own sanity is imperative (all this is my opinion from personal experience and facilitating support groups).

If he refuses.. you should see someone immediately yourself with or without him. If he continues, won't see a therapist, is acting irrational, etc. you need to take care of yourself. Perhaps separate, on friendly terms for now and let him have a dose of reality. If you and your marriage are so important to him, you can watch how quickly he will come to his senses and see a therapist. You know you might have to leave temporarily or permanently. Give him some room. He will eventually (hopefully) reach the conclusion that his behavior is not normal for most standards. Tough love is needed to protect yourself. It could be a midlife crisis.. could be mental illness such as depression, other chemical imbalance. Start with a psychologist and perhaps a Psychiatrist (MD for meds). He needs a full evaluation honestly. If you look at his general overall behavior, its likely effecting other areas of his life such as work, etc.

And, it you have children, this mess is putting them at risk for its sucking your emotionally and you'll be a less effective parent due to the impact of this mess.

Try to always relate this to how it would be if he were doing this with a female from Chile or anywhere. Even though the myth is that bisexual people can't be monogamous or in committed relationships with one life-long partner, that's bunk.

And, consider, rarely does anyone fall "in love" with someone from Chile all the way from the UK... he's never met the guy. Its all fantasy. It could be real but chances are not really that good honestly. He's falling into lust/fantasy, etc. for the time being. Most people, when they first start exploring their sexuality if they think they might be bi or gay or lesbian, its like a kid in a candy store. Eventually, that newness will wear off.

He may well regret any rash decisions he makes He may be suffering from other things and this is an escape. And, you should both see someone together and you separately if at all possible. But also join one of the online or local support groups I listed below (just a sample). There are also references to other local chapters.

And, remember that even though he is your world today, that could be ending... reality check. You do need to take care of YOURSELF if you do wish to help him and your marriage. But, in the end, we must make sure we're good or any relationship we might have is less than it can be.

Obviously, you are at risk when you said "I tried to end my life." That is a fundamental issue that you need to address with some help very quickly.

Again, sometimes, things that are out of control screw up our life. Often, and this is key, sexuality issues becomes a focal point for all that goes wrong with a relationship... and for bigger issues in that relationship.

I would recommend a few books (sorry, that's my MO):

"The Other Side Of the Closet" by Amity Buxton, Phd (Wiley)

founder of Straight Spouse Network: http://www.straightspouse.org) Check for local chapters (see below)

And one of my favorites: "Uncommon Lifes, Gay Men And Straight Women" by Catherine Whitney(Plume).

It has its ups and downs from negative to positive but in the end, it was to me extremely defining and positive. (it applies to gay or bi husbands).

You can also checkout the

http://www.straightpartnersanonymous.co.uk/straightpartnersanonymous.html

What is Straight Partners Anonymous?
Straight Partners Anonymous (SPA) is a UK-based support group and online chat forum for straight people whose partner is gay, lesbian or bisexual. The chat forum is hosted by Yahoo Groups and you will need to register with Yahoo, which is free.

Although SPA's primary purpose is to support straight people, their gay, lesbian, or bisexual partner may find that coming out is easier for them, knowing that their partner is supported.

On a final note, there are other lifestyles that married people often consider and try out. Its possible and very common to form a different type of relationship (V-shape triad... he has you and a male partner - even if its online or once in a blue moon or even a full triad... if he is that important to you, and you are actually comfortable with such an idea (research polyamory, poly, etc. online).

Lifestyle books: on the above is:

"The Ethical Slut" by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt ( Greenery Press)

"Getting Bi, Voices of Bisexuals Around The World" editors: Robyun Ochs & Sarah Rowley (Bisexuak Resource Center) 2nd Edition 2009

If he thinks he is truly bisexual, he should be reading up on the topic. If its lust, that's one thing, if its truly being bi and he feels he can have a meaningful relationship with a man, he should be interested in more fully understanding what that might be like and why.

I definitely feel for you and hope you can cope. Dont be afraid to see you medical doctor or a psychiatrist for meds to help handle anxiety.

Best of luck.. feel free to update here or private emal

L

gfofbiguy

Jan 21, 2010, 11:18 AM

But also join one of the online or local support groups I listed below (just a sample). There are also references to other local chapters. ...

I would recommend a few books (sorry, that's my MO):

"The Other Side Of the Closet" by Amity Buxton, Phd (Wiley)

founder of Straight Spouse Network: http://www.straightspouse.org) Check for local chapters (see below)

You can also checkout the

http://www.straightpartnersanonymous.co.uk/straightpartnersanonymous.html

What is Straight Partners Anonymous?
Straight Partners Anonymous (SPA) is a UK-based support group and online chat forum for straight people whose partner is gay, lesbian or bisexual. The chat forum is hosted by Yahoo Groups and you will need to register with Yahoo, which is free.

Although SPA's primary purpose is to support straight people, their gay, lesbian, or bisexual partner may find that coming out is easier for them, knowing that their partner is supported.

Best of luck.. feel free to update here or private emal

L

Great suggestions, NEPHX. However, I must say as the str8 partner of a bi-man, I do not particularly care for the Straight Spouse Network or most of the groups that are geared toward the str8 spouse listed on the Straight Spouse Network, as they seem to be VERY anger-oriented/bitter and I was pretty much told by numerous people when I joined a couple of those groups that I should get out of my relationship with my b/f NOW...not very supportive to people who want to stay in their relationship with their bi- (or gay) spouse, very angry and bitter is how they came off to me. The groups I have listed below are very supportive and are affirming of both spouses, bi/gay and str8. And there is also a women-only group for the str8 wife of bi/gay men which is very supportive...

Confused Wife:

I emailed you about 4 or 5 days ago with some support groups, which I am posting for you here as well:

HUGS Couples2 is a group that both spouses need to join, but it is very helpful in dealing with both sides of the issue of bisexuality or one spouse being gay/lesbian. There are actually several couples in this group from the UK. This is their link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HUGS_Couples2/

MMOMW (Making Mixed Orientation Marriage Work) is another group, but either spouse or both spouses can join. This is their link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MMOMW/?yguid=300400474

MMOM (Monogamous Mixed Orientation Marriage) is a group for people who are in a marriage where one spouse is bi/gay/lesbian, but want to keep their marriage monogamous (not sure if that is what you want to do, but thought I'd give you the link anyways). This is their link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mmom/?yguid=300400474

Alternative Path is a group for only women who are str8 and their spouse is bi or gay - it is a very helpful, uplifting (most of the time) group for women who are wanting to keep their marriage intact and are looking for others in the same boat for support. There is no nastiness towards the bi/gay spouse as there is in some of the str8 wives groups that I have seen. Also, there are several women in this group from the UK. This is their link, if you are interested: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alternatepath/

Good luck to you!

~~Gfofbiguy

mikey3000

Jan 21, 2010, 12:26 PM

Confused wife,

Oh man, I don't know where to start. First of all, NO ONE is ever worth ending your life for NO ONE!!! you are way to precious for that. Please don't ever try that again.

Secondly, I think your husband is being terribly unfair to you. How dare he ask you to wait to see how he decides. Pathetic. I can understanding him thinking he is falling in love with another man, I really can, but he must rememnber his commitment to you. You are his priority. Shame on him.

Now what can you do about it? Can you handle sharing him if that is what he wants? Can you see your future like that? Do you think you can work things out with him? I think it is so brave of you to come here seeking help, and we'll do our best for you. And it is so admirable for you to want to try and make things work. Truly amazing. But he is not treating you fairly at all. Here's what I would do till everythings become clearer. I would leave or get him to leave. Time apart is what you both need. But tell him why you are doing this, not because he is bi, but because he is treating you so unfairly. You are not a safety net. You are a wonderful woman and maybe he needs just the right kick in the ass to remember that fact. And keep seeking councelling, if not for the both of you, then just for you, ok? Please? Remember, none of this is your fault at all.
Take care honey, and keep us updated!!!

Cheers.

And all those sites listed above are truly wonderful places for wives just in your position. Not bitter angry, but so helpful. Check them out.

wildwestgoob

Jan 21, 2010, 1:37 PM

Confused wife,

Oh man, I don't know where to start. First of all, NO ONE is ever worth ending your life for NO ONE!!! you are way to precious for that. Please don't ever try that again.

Secondly, I think your husband is being terribly unfair to you. How dare he ask you to wait to see how he decides. Pathetic. I can understanding him thinking he is falling in love with another man, I really can, but he must remember his commitment to you. You are his priority. Shame on him.

And all those sites listed above are truly wonderful places for wives just in your position. Not bitter angry, but so helpful. Check them out.

I have to agree. (shock) :eek:
That is a pretty pathetic way to go about things, making you WAIT AND SEE ... OMG!

I am also glad that folks posted links to support groups rather than just posting their spiteful past experiences.

And yes, be aware like gfofbiguy said, and don't get sucked into others' hateful spiteful rantings.
Find some actual "support" and guidance from folks who care about your safety and well being.

There is No "silver bullet" here. I wish there was. There also is no pill to take that "fixes" us married guys who are also "bi"... I am sure some wish there was, whatever "fixed" might be.

My opinion is to get out of that living situation, divorce or not, and go live with a trusting family member for a while till you get things worked out for YOURSELF. Don't wait on him.
Don't be *his* safety net.
That's just not right.

:2cents:

rissababynta

Jan 21, 2010, 2:41 PM

I don't think there is much else that I can add here. I agree with what everyone else has said.

**Peg**

Jan 21, 2010, 4:35 PM

well said rissa...... *sigh*

Confused Wife: if you ever need a pair of ears or a shoulder, I'll do all I can to help you. Feel free to send me a private message here, or drop into chat.

Peg

BLCHGK777

Jan 21, 2010, 5:42 PM

Well you have come to the right place for helpful information. I hope things get better for you and please don't try taking your life again there is light at the end of every tunnel.

Karasel

Jan 21, 2010, 6:06 PM

Not much left for me to say, but I agree with everyone here especially Long Duck Dong and mikey3000.

I think after 14 years of marriage and is ability to throw that all away for one guy he meet a year ago is the most pathetic thing I have heard in a long while. You are his partner in life and share everything with him, and after 14 years he wants you to be an emotional "parachute"?!

Someone who would under-mind a marriage like that isn't worth the love and devotion you obviously feel for him. It's a tough situation, and I hope you come out of this with as much grace as possible.

onewhocares

Jan 21, 2010, 9:12 PM

I know a few bodie parts are taken...but...ok the shoulder to lean upon, the ears to listen...I have a whole Belle to listen to an lean upon...I am here. You are never alone.

Belle

Cherokee_Mountaincat

Jan 22, 2010, 1:03 PM

Wow. Part of my hormonal state wants to tell you to kick that boy in a bodily part and yell "Wake up, you Idjet!"
The other half can just rationally sympathisize and offer to talk if you need it, like the rest of us girls. Its so horrible of him to say "Oh here, put your life on standby status until I get my head out of my ass and decide how far to take this infatuation"

You gotta start thinking about You, Girlfriend. Start looking into some theraphy on your own, and Dont Even think of doing away with yourself. No Man or Woman is worth that. You cannot help your situation if they have you in observation..thionk about that for a bit.
Good luck Hon, and you know where are all are if you need us. And, your going to get troll bitten here, I'm sure of it, but dont pay them any mind.
Hugs
Cat

Darkside2009

Jan 22, 2010, 9:25 PM

Where is Lorena Bobbit when you need her? My first reaction was one of anger and incredulity, that your husband could be such an arrogant, selfish bastard. You should kick his ass to the curb and start thinking about yourself and any children you might have.

Firstly, I'd go for a check-up at your local STD clinic, their number will be in the phone book, to ensure he hasn't already been sexually active with someone else and passed an infection on to you.

Secondly, I'd ask your GP to refer you for some counselling to deal with the shock of all this and your reaction to it.

Thirdly, you had a life before you met your husband, you'll have a life if you aren't with him, probably a better one, by the sound of him.

Fourthly, remember you can phone the Samaritans 24 hours a day if you are feeling low or suicidal.

Fifthly, find yourself a good solicitor and get some legal advice as regards your rights to maintenance and the family home. It may be necessary to take action on his bank account and salary to ensure you have enough to live on, a solicitor can give you advice on all this.

Remember, as his wife he has a legal duty to maintain you he can't simply opt out of it.

The person in Chile may well be operating a scam in order to obtain money from your husband, money for the fare to the UK, or a sick relative, or to pay back lenders threatening them, are the usual excuses.

Unfortunately, this type of scam is rife on the Net and too many people fall for it, only to find out later that they have been one of many suckers duped in this way. Don't send this person in Chile any money and see how long the 'Romance' lasts before they move onto their next victim.

Good luck, I'd still like to drop-kick him between the posts.

Darkside2009

Jan 22, 2010, 9:32 PM

mikey3000

Jan 22, 2010, 9:50 PM

A post so nice, you made it twice.

tenni

Jan 23, 2010, 10:54 AM

"Where is Lorena Bobbit when you need her?"

Uh??? What????????????????????????????

Although her husband is way off base and possibly suffering from some form of psychological delusion ( or maybe because he may be mentally ill), it is no more appropriate to propose sexual mutilation of a man (or a woman) than it is to propose rape and murder.

mikey3000

Jan 23, 2010, 10:57 AM

I just think the OP's husband needs his ass kicked, and good.

Bi Nudist Male

Jan 23, 2010, 12:41 PM

Something seriously out of whack when individual claims "love" for someone he's only met via internet. In that respect, agree he needs to sort out his issues.

As for you, consider that at the least, he's being honest with you. Hard not to cry, but suicide?

Altogether too much drama here. You both need to de-compress and evaluate and find your hearts. You might find help in books, but perhaps better in a trained third person who can provide an independent, objective voice.

If he truly is bi, remember that Kinsey believed most of us are, to some extent. You've accommodated other things about one another over your years together, and if you love each other, you can reconcile and absorb this, too.

Good luck

confused wife

Jan 24, 2010, 6:53 AM

NEPHX

Jan 24, 2010, 7:46 AM

It seems to me some of you don,t understand your marriage vows and i for 1 believe you take as much time as it needs to hopfully come out the other side of this , and at the moment my husband is composing an e mail in a different id to see if this is a scam its 1 small step to see if i have anything worth fighting for , yes i was suisidal but i feel it is time to fight for my man i have now accepted he is bi sexual and there is nothing i can do about that he was born this way but this guy wants to take him away from me and i am not gonna let that happen , after 14 years i feel i have the right to fight and at 1 stage i would like us to go out to some clubs and see if its for him as he has never had same sex affair and states he doesnt know if its for him but at the same time i wont be a doormat and let him wipe his feet on me .

CW, that's a truly great attitude. Like many shocking revelations we don't expect, you seem to be wrapping your mind around the issue. Like the kid in the Matrix that said to Neo, something like "Don't try to bend the spoon, that's impossible, instead bend your mind."

One quick comment.... the guy is not taking him away from you; he is (potentially) leaving you. He has a commitment to you that he could be breaking. If this guy does show up, make your hubby set up a time for you ALL TO MEET. Let the guy look you in the eye and explain why he must travel 1/2 around the world to snag another persons spouse. Certainly, there must be guys in Chile he could date or steal from other spouses. And, seriously, there are guys (and women I'm sure) that seem to think its a sport to draw another persons spouse/partner away. Then, once they do it, the relationship doesn't last long before they move on to their next conquest. After all, if this guy was truly interested in your spouses happiness and well being, he wouldn't try to "help" wreck his long term relationship. (no one can make us feel any way or do anything, we do that on our own....). If he's willing to wreck your spouses marriage, what does that honestly say about this guys character (pond scum!!)

Great idea on investigating the scam piece (I mentioned in my other post too). So many of these things are scams and they DO SEEM SO REAL. And, might want to work into a discussion on "what if this guy falls through... will there be others? Will I lose you to someone else if this one doesn't pan out?" The answers to that might help you in your pro/con list.

You not only have the right to fight for your relationship but you seem to have the wisdom to know WHAT your fighting for....14-years of what seems to you as a very good marriage. I'd fight (and have, one loss, one gain).. the loss was much longer than 14 years (and best she is gone, her loss), the win was 8 and well worth the effort and still going strong. Reality was he was really screaming out for help which I got him. But also, he needed more than I was able, at the time, to give him. I made drastic changes to my situation and that made a HUGE impact on his psychological well-being. So, seriously, its important to evaluate our self in these situations too.

You appear to offer him unconditional love. Suggest how he is seeing only part of the bigger picture. Stable relationships that hit 70-80 or more of teh things "we" want from a relationship seem really hard to find. He's maybe seeing the 5% he can't get from you (plumping). Not to be rash but, there are strap-ons if that what his desire is as just one example.

But, unconditional love does not mean you have to be a door mat sacrificing your own principals, happiness and self-respect. You seem to have a great handle on that. I fought for my partner, different situation. Sometimes, I think people "test us" to see if we truly do unconditionally love them. And, just because some people are "attracted" to the same sex does not mean that they ultimately enjoy "sex" with the same sex, or that they can ACTUALLY overcome their own internal phobias to actually live with a same-sex person or that they can actually emotionally embrace a same-sex person in a loving, sexual relationship.

It sounds like right now, your hubby is still fantasying about this person. It could be a release/escape from the world that is stressful or whatever. But, with your post, it seems like you want him to truly understand what he "thinks" he wants is what he really wants. Your certainly a loving spouse. If this guy is so important to him, he might ask the guy to move to your town and date him for a year. After all, people do that even today to see if they are actually compatible.

As a minor side note, marriage vows are fleeting... sorry, they usually include "until death do us part" and, well, look at how that pans out with the divorce rate. As in all contracts, relationships, etc. everything is negotiable. Relatonships grow, people grow, agreements evolve or sometimes the whole thing crashes and burns. Giving it your 100% to make sure is important. You won't have regrets someday of not fully exploring, with your spouse, the validity of his feelings/desires, etc.

Compromise is something we do every day in our lives with our spouses/partners, friends, family (God only knows how much), etc. Ultimately, you must decide how much leash you give him. After all, he did chose to include you in what appears to be a extremely life altering issue for him. Far too many people just do it behind their spouse/partners back.

As far as suicidal, contemplating the concept of suicide is not really suicidal. But, situational depression can cause us to go through many stages and those stages relate to the grief/loss steps we hear so often. I would doubt that there are many people that have not thought about suicide but, to actually get to the point of considering it or worse, I'd say its a very small number.

I still think, for your own sanity, you should consider talking with a counselor of some type. BTW, PFLAG and local LGBT community centers often offer such support.

A pro and con list is good too... as is a list of what you consider acceptable in his exploration of his sexuality and where you will draw the line of unacceptable. But, I'd recommend making that list in pencil. That line can move in both directions.

If you and he chose to allow him to and he actually explores an actual intimate encounter or dating situation, the overwhelming emotions might move that line very quickly into the unacceptable when before it was "intellectually" acceptable. Intellectual consideration for something is one thing. The actual emotional response we have for the same thing might SHOCK you.

And, if he and you choose to let him explore, perhaps you should consider dating a bit (even if just casual and non-sexual). It might give you a different perspective and it might just scare the crap out of your spouse. The consideration of perhaps losing you or just the fact that "wow.. there are other guys that desire my wife" might be another jolt of reality. Its not really tit-for-tat or revenge/etc.... its the reality that if he chooses to go along his self-discovery, the rest of the world, you specifically, are not frozen in time. You must be in the mind set that you CAN and WILL move on if he leaves you. And, YOU might find out that some of the other fish in the sea are a pretty good catch.

Most of my comments are things I have experienced or have had imposed on me or friends...

NEPHX

Jan 24, 2010, 9:04 AM

This is not true.

Most people are not bisexual and do not harbor same sex sexual attractions at all.

Just look at society and around the world. Most people are heterosexual and further research besides Kinsey has shown this.

Confused_Wife-Like others have said move out and get a divorce from him.

I suppose ignorance is bliss after all..

You have either very limited research and reading on the topic or are specifically being misleading. Basically, you are wrong in your claims of the Kinsey Reports and follow-on work by Klein and many others. You make the claims and you fail to quote any supporting references.

So, here are just a few specifics... remembering that the Kinsey Reports are 100's of pages EACH... oh, yes, there are two not one.... so "IT" is also an interesting word in your post.

The basic rule for therapists and support group protocols is not to give advise on what decision a person should make but to share experiences, refer to and quote reference materials by professionals in the field of human sexuality. Every time someone does it in these threads, there is a virtual war like fighting over who's religion or God(s) is the true God.

CW obviously has different goals and issues than you might have in her situation. Considering your handle, hornedUpRam, one might conclude your advise as less than representative of a loving relationship that CW has in her heart for her spouse.

So, you have "it" (Kinsey Reports), Well.. shocker, for starters, there is more than one Kinsey report. The one most often quoted is the male (initial) report in 1947 titled "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male" . There is a second called "Sexual Behavior in the Human Female" (1953). These reports are very clinical and can not be boiled down to such simplistic terms and but, you'd still be way off base.

For a more comprehensive discussion on Human Sexuality, the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid (KSOG) detailed in "The Bisexual Option" Klein 2nd edition, 1993. Basically, according to Klein, human sexuality is significantly more complex than Kinsey mapped out and that's not taking into consideration gender identity. But even Kinsey goes into significant detail on that point in 1947.

Often we hear the term 10% of the population is gay (not str8). The reality is that the 10% represents those who identify in the 5 and 6 range of the Kinsey Scale (0-6). The 0 = str8, 6=gay. Most of the population in the study fall into the 1-5 range and certainly in the 1-6 range and it is a pretty smooth bell curve. And, many of the 6's just as many of the 0's might actually classify themselves otherwise if they had some form of experience or situation to allow them to open themselves to the possibilities.

According to Kinsey, 46% of the male population had the ability to eroticism both genders (only one dimension of bisexuality)... without consideration to carry this capability into actual practice (when it dropped, in Kinsey reports - male) to 33%.

But what defines sexual orientation? Desire/Capacity or ACTION? One can identify as a 0 (or a 6 or a 3, etc) and consider him/herself str8 and never have sex ... ever. But again, the reports and books go into detail on all the issues. Certainly, this short post isn't going to due justice to the work of Kinsey and Klein and many, many others that have many more letters behind their name than most of us in this forum.

And, the reports were done in the 1948/1953 time frame. Society had different ideas and norms (but desires were there - but again, stifled by society & religion norms. Those are far different than 2010 would show when same-sex characters/stories, etc. are in the media.

More SPECIFICS on the Kinsey Reports (Male) with references:

"The reports also state that nearly 46% of the male subjects had "reacted" sexually to persons of both sexes in the course of their adult lives, and 37% had at least one homosexual experience.[5] 11.6% of white males (ages 20–35) were given a rating of 3 (about equal heterosexual and homosexual experience/response) throughout their adult lives.[6] The study also reported that 10% of American males surveyed were "more or less exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55" (in the 5 to 6 range).[7]"
# 5 Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, p. 656
# 6 Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, Table 147, p. 651
# 7 Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, p. 651
# 8 Sexual Behavior in the Human Female, Table 142, p. 499
# 9 Sexual Behavior in the Human Female, p. 488
# 10 Sexual Behavior in the Human Female, Table 142, p. 499, and p. 474

wildwestgoob

Jan 24, 2010, 1:58 PM

NEPHX... WOW ...

All I can say is THANK you for actually providing some RESEARCH and :eek:(facts)....

What *is* this world coming to when people actually have the nerve ... to present the actual facts... page numbers and all...

lol

Thanks again NEPHX !
(not that I think the doofuss will shut up,but great effort anyway !)

confused wife

Jan 29, 2010, 4:24 AM

sammie19

Jan 29, 2010, 6:43 AM

Thank you all for your words of advise it nice to know that there are some nice people in the community, This is just a quick 1 to let you know i am giving my marraige 1 last shot by going to Jamaica with my husband to see if there is anything worth saving and if there isn't i am not waiting around to be hurt anymore Ty again
J

A word of caution. I have been to Jamaica and it is not somewhere I would advise for a gay or bisexual person. Most Jamaicans are very intolerant to non straight people and many are murdered every year. It is a beautiful place and Jamaicans are wonderfully warm people about most things. Except anything smacking of homosexuality. My advice if you do go is not to discuss sexuality outside of your room, a deserted beach or somewhere you are sure of isolation. We had a wonderful holiday and you can too as long as you remember that it is a dangerous place for gay and bi people. It is certainly not advisable for anyone to be actively looking while there without taking the greatest care.

I wish you well Wife, and hope things work out in the way you hope.

dickhand

Jan 29, 2010, 6:59 AM

Wow ! I am not exactly known as Mr. sensitive myself , but I can not imagine treating anyone the way he has treated you . Just my opinion here , there is nothing to salvage with this man . You deserve much better than this man can ever be . Should you hook up with someone who is bisexual and you choose to except them for who they are and maybe even participate , I think you would find it can an incredible experience , but that is only if there is mutual respect and caring . You don't have that here with this man . Please , please remember that suicide is a permanent solution to a temperary situation .

mikey3000

Jan 29, 2010, 7:16 PM

sunflowersong@aol.co

Jan 30, 2010, 12:36 PM

I just read this, and I am new to this site, but ha been "BI" for as long as I can remember.

Cheating, betrayal, deception, unacceptable, in no world is it ever right to put a person through what you are going through, I know it has been 14 years, but do not waste another second of your life with this man, I would not trust him ever again.

A "safety net" did he really ask you to be his safety net, what a horrible , speck of a human being, surround yourself with friends, get away from this troll, you deserve better, do not mourn what you never had, it was an illusion, I know that hurts, but that pain should be the impetus in moving you forward.

It took several relationships, lots of heart ache, before I met my husband, and trust me, I had given up on ever having "true love" then it happened, and wow, it was worth the wait and the pain, but if I had stayed in one of those bad relationships, or become a bitter person, I would not have the joy I now know, it can happen.

I am bisexual, my husband is straight, we are about as different as one could get, yet we are perfect for each other, I have never known such passion, and love in my life, I am grateful each day for having him in my life, I was 48 when I met him, so you see, love does come knocking, you just have to be home, and available.

...Out of darkness, comes the bright morning sun, embrace the warmth, be quiet and hear your breath, feel your heart beating, you are alive, with life comes hope, with hope comes promise, with promise comes peace, with peace comes hope, the circle is complete, rest easy your life is a beautiful dream, do not let him take that that from you.

cry then leave, you can do it

river

tenni

Jan 30, 2010, 12:48 PM

On page 117 of "The Bisexual Option", Klein states that it is the married bisexual male who is more open to explore bisexuality than married bisexual woman. He refers to the fact that men are generally more able to openly express their need for sexual fulfillment.

tenni

Jan 30, 2010, 3:17 PM

I live in a world where research brings forth evidence. I live in a world where reality counts and not some fantasy about what should be. I do not live in a world of mere opinion without facts and evidence. I certainly have my opinion(s) based upon what evidence I may find to create my opinions.

If you have more up to date facts (after 1993) based upon research, I'm interested in reading them.

The poster previous(sunflowersong) to my post stated that she did not wish to be sexually involved with anyone but her husband. Many married bisexual women on this site have made this statement. What I posted dealt with a reality. State what facts that you have to dispute what I posted.

What world do you live in and what do you base your opinions on?

Do you live in a world of theory where you think you can prove everything with quotes from very outdated books and studies?

Or where you can find and twist reasons for your opinion of why it's somehow OK in your opinion for bisexual men to lie and cheat on their wives?

mikey3000

Jan 30, 2010, 5:10 PM

mikey3000

Jan 30, 2010, 5:13 PM

I live in the real world.

Not Academia in a world full of theory like you do.

The reality is that a lot of people would get very angry if their partner lied and cheated on them and then tried to validate their infidelity and cheating by showing theory from studies and very old quotes from outdated books and studies.

I'm not here to engage in rhetoric but I know tons of bisexual and gay men who do not approve of cheating and would be very angry and hurt if their partner lied and cheated on them.

Dude, you live in a world where you solicit and fuck hundreds of married guys right from your own back door. Who do you think you are to advise anyone on cheating?

tenni

Jan 30, 2010, 5:22 PM

"The reality is that a lot of people would get very angry if their partner lied and cheated on them and then tried to validate their infidelity and cheating by showing theory from studies and very old quotes from outdated books and studies.

I'm not here to engage in rhetoric but I know tons of bisexual and gay men who do not approve of cheating and would be very angry and hurt if their partner lied and cheated on them."

Yes, of course they do. That is completely understandable. It is a terrible experience (been there had that done to me). All the ranting and screaming about being wrong will change nothing though.

Reality, however, is a different matter. The reality is that 60% of men and 40% of women will have an affair sometime in their marriage (Peggy Vaughn stated this in "Monogomy Myth" and Klein stated earlier 50% of men and 20% of women in 1993. Percentages seem to be increasing). When people get married (or enter a so called monogomus relationship), they should be aware of this possibility.

I believe that it was Klein who stated that with such high percentages, it should be looked at as neither partner is completely guilty as other factors are probably in play.

Discussion on these threads might be better spent on how should people prepare themselves to deal with the fact that there is such a high possibility that your partner will have an affair regardless of the gender or sexuality of the person? I suspect that nothing will prepare you for the pain but awareness may dull it somewhat. In advance of finding out that your partner had an affair, you might spend some time contemplating how to deal with it should this happen. If reality strikes though, you may react quite differently than you thought that you would.

* My apology to sunflowersong. I did misread your post but I did get the impression that you were wanting to be monogomous with your straight husband from what you wrote about the OP and other words in your post?

mikey3000

Jan 30, 2010, 5:51 PM

...your fuck buddies who you think walks on water.

No offense meant, but comapred to you, yeah they do. :bigrin:

tenni

Jan 30, 2010, 7:13 PM

Face.
Sir

Klein made this statement. He did not state that married bisexual women can not (as in physically impossible) but that married bisexual men are "more open to exploring their bisexuality".

He then went on to explain it a bit. He refers to the fact that "men are generally more able to openly express their need for sexual fulfillment". The married female bisexual is not as inclined to go outside of her marriage. The statistics are there to support his statement. Klein did state that bisexual men and women are more inclined to have more extramatirial affairs than their heterosexual counterparts. Whether one discloses to your spouse or not is not a factor in the study. Klein stressed on page 113 that not all bisexuals feel the need to have sexual relations with both genders, at any one time. Many are satisfied in monogomous relations. My opinion is whether one sees bisexuals who are satisfied in monogomus relationships as "better" or the "good bisexuals" has nothing to do with being a bisexual. It is merely a fact that these variations happen in bisexuals' lives.

Who says that women somehow cannot? Usually do not, or that you constantly argue in your posts that it's OK for a bisexual man to be a complete repressed closet case and cheat on his wife and how most bisexual married men are closeted and cheating on their wives?

Look at the number of mixed orientation couples like sunflowersong where the woman is bisexual and looking for another lesbian/bisexual woman and the man is heterosexual.

She's married, bisexual, and is very open to exploring her bisexuality and she's not a man or cheating or lying to her spouse.