bisexuality and happiness

[tenni]

Are bisexuals who do not see the greys of life bound to be unhappy with sex and morality?

[Giggles100]

Are bisexuals who do not see the greys of life bound to be unhappy with sex and morality?

I think so..... You can't think/act like a straight person and be Bi or atleast you'll never experience true freedom until you do :).

Anyone who pretends that realising they are Bi didn't change everything about how they view the world is probably harbouring internal homophobia making them scared of change however subtle........

[mikey3000]

Bang on Giggles. I agree. For me, I'll never understand declaring your bisexuality if you refuse to experience it, whether you are partnered or not.
Yet others will scream that it's not about actions, but desire, and that I must respect that person's desire on how to be referred to. I just don't understand.

[allbimyself]

To a certain extent. However, would a virgin that only had fantasies and desires for the same sex not be gay?

[mikey3000]

For a virgin who consciously refused to act on it, no. It would just reamin a fantasy. I can fantasize about going to the moon, does that make me an astronaut?

[allbimyself]

Who said anything about consciously refusing? Sheesh, I guess you got laid the first day you had a desire for sex.

[Karasel]

For a virgin who consciously refused to act on it, no. It would just reamin a fantasy. I can fantasize about going to the moon, does that make me an astronaut?

I disagree there. I have a friend that was a virgin until she was 18. She knew she was bi for many years, she had girlfriends and boyfriends. But she wanted to wait for the right time to have sex, she's a real romantic. I think virgins are in a different category. True, they may not know exactly what it is that they pacifically like sexually, but they do know who they are attracted to and who they can develop feelings towards.

As for non-virgins, I say you don't know if you like something until you try. So examine fantasies closely.

[Long Duck Dong]

define the grey areas.....

happiness is a state of mind... and anybody can be happy..... many choose not to be and want for more.... others are content with what they have and enjoy the extra in life and that can apply to any aspect of life, ...money, love, sex, companion, a place to live, friends...etc etc

[darkeyes]

... course its poss.. many peeps liv quite happily even tho they hav nev fulfilled ther ambitions.. or hav nev fallen in luff.. or hav nev had sex.. ther may b a gap in ther experience..mayb even they feel a hole in ther lives.. but they can liv happily for all that.. peeps who hav had alla these things... an hav had them taken way r jus as likely 2 liv happily in time 1ce they hav gotten ova the shock a loss.. so wy shudn peeps who hav nev had also liv happily nev havin known a particular thrill even tho it wos 1a ther hearts desires? We nev fulfill every wish.. failin 2 do so don mean we cant hav a brill life wiv lots goin for it..an it certainly don mean we hav 2 go bout mizzy as sin.. sexuality is but a parta the whole a our bein.. experiencin it or no isn b all an end all a human existence.. ther much more 2 life than that...:)

[Annika L]

Are bisexuals who do not see the greys of life bound to be unhappy with sex and morality?

I think that *anyone* (regardless of sexuality) who does not see the greys of life is bound to be unhappy with *any* aspect of anything in which they cannot see those greys.

[BiPride1]

To me anyone can be happy, but you have to have the will to make it happen.

[DareMe]

For a virgin who consciously refused to act on it, no. It would just reamin a fantasy. I can fantasize about going to the moon, does that make me an astronaut?

Slippery slope here!

The word Fantasy implies, in most cases, an improbable mental image. However, in sex, you do have the power to act on that fantasy.

I am willing to bet that before one would have a same sex sexual encounter, one would first have fantasized about it and then decided to act on it
DM

[bret5668]

Happiness is a state of mind, not a sexual preference, or fantasy, nor is it a grey area

[tenni]

Added information to the premise of the thread.

Morality is a set of beliefs distinguishing between right and wrong behaviours. In its descriptive use, morals are arbitrarily and subjectively created by philosophy, religion, and/or individual conscience.

The grey areas are the areas between black and white...yes and no..the maybe. Grey areas of life are places and times in our life when the answer is not clear.

Bisexuality may be a grey area in itself. It is a sin to want to have sex with someone of your own gender. This is a moral position held by certain religions. A bisexual comes from a background where the act of same sex is wrong according to the philosophical or religious consructs that they believe in.

How can a bisexual be happy without deciding that there is a grey area? To want or actually have sex with the same gender and the opposite gender is wrong and immoral.

Bisexuals who do not see the greys of life are bound to be unhappy with sex and morality.

[coyotedude]

To be honest, I have to question some of the assumptions of this thread.

For instance, I don't accept the notion that same gender sexual relationships are by definition immoral according to all existing moral systems. Different moral traditions throughout the centuries have had varying degrees of acceptance of the notion of same sex relationships. Even within the modern Christian tradition there is robust theological debate about the nation of the Biblical passages that discuss homosexual behavior. While there is no question that some people struggle with this issue because of their background, I do not believe it is valid to extend that to all bisexuals. One can be a bisexual that adheres to a moral standard of conduct and still find happiness in life.

That being said, I am not necessarily a moral absolutist, either. Life often presents us with challenging questions and limited information to make choices. Sometimes there is no clean answer; we must make the best choices we can based on what information we have along with our previous experiences, our best guesses, and our personal values.

I also question whether bisexuals by definition must engage in same gender sex in order to be happy. Bisexuality is an important part of who we are, but it is only one piece of the puzzle. Sometimes we forget there is more to life than sex.

In addition, I question the idea that you're not bisexual unless you've had sex with both genders. I have had sex with men, for instance, yet I would be no less bisexual even if I'd never had a chance to engage in male-on-male sex. Bisexuality is a broad term that covers a variety of behaviors, feelings, and perspectives. Many bisexuals have no problems having sex with the same gender but shy away from same gender romantic relationships. Others (like myself) could easily fall in love with members of either gender.

Great topic for thought and discussion!

Peace

[Indaco76]

I sort of agree with the OP's opinion, although I think that by "morality" he (or she? can't remember, sorry!) didn't necessarily refer to same sex relationships and/or encounters, but rather to the difficulty of managing "non univocal" attractions and feelings.
We are *so* brainwashed in our childhood and teen years, esp women, that we are more or less unconsciously led to believe that anything that differs from the desire for "monogamous, faithful, married with children for life" model makes us freaks, if not utterly perverts.
In recent years, a gay/lesbian version of that model has becoming more and more accepted by people, because society can no longer ignore the growing numbers of out-and-proud homosexuals in the world, and they are trying to *tolerate* them (even if or when they don't really want to) because they are told they have to be politically correct towards them, provided they behave *just like good heterosexual couples are supposed to*.
Bisexuals challenge that assumption radically, if not in deeds, at least in our desires. We can be sexually monogamous for years, have loving and honest relationships with our partners and yet, simply because we cannot stop ourselves from desiring the opposite/same sex (depending on our partner's gender), we are evil. The point is, this desire - be it physical, sexual, emotional or just an undefined longing - is intrinsic in our nature, therefore suppressing it would mean suppressing ourselves.
This is, in my opinion, the most difficult challenge for us bisexuals and for our partners, if we choose to disclose our orientation to them.
I think this is what the OP meant by "having issues with sex and morality".
Bottom line, being bisexual can be fun, but it's *so damn hard* sometimes, especially if honesty is high on your priorities and you need other people's acceptance.
Just my two cents...

[jamiehue]

Ive always gone to the beat of a diffrent drummer seems the older i get the more steady it gets that is where its at for me.

[Annika L]

For me, I'll never understand declaring your bisexuality if you refuse to experience it, whether you are partnered or not.
Yet others will scream that it's not about actions, but desire, and that I must respect that person's desire on how to be referred to. I just don't understand.

Mikey, it's a question of identification and subjective experience. I declare myself bisexual, because I cannot in good conscience declare myself to be a lesbian, as long as I desire men. What good would a declaration of lesbianism do me? It might send a "keep-away" message to men, which would (at this moment in time) be in their interest, but I don't see how it's in mine. On the other hand, such a declaration also would send the *inaccurate* message to my partner that I am completely satisfied with women only...and why would I want to send that message if it's not true? Therefore, to me, it *only* makes sense to identify as bisexual...that's my reality, so that's how I identify. Does that help?

I also question your meaning of "refuse to experience [your sexuality]"...over what time frame? For the past 23 years I've been partnered monogamously with a woman. Before that, there were some sexual experiences with men. Tomorrow or in ten years, who knows? Am I "refusing to experience my sexuality"? Or have I experienced it, but am no longer? If I have sex with a man today, is that experiencing my sexuality...if that's the last time I ever have sex with a man, when does the "statute of limitations" run out on that experience and I'm no longer experiencing my sexuality? It seems to me that unless you *only ever* have three(or more)somes involving yourself, a man and a woman, then you are not experiencing your sexuality, right? I mean, if you pursue sex with a man tonight and not a woman, then you are refusing to experience your sexuality. It feels to me like this notion needs some definition...otherwise, it seems to boil down to "I'll know it when I see it," and you get to be the sole arbiter of who gets to call themselves bisexual (lucky you!).

[mikey3000]

My commet was directed at people who have never had a same sex encounter, ever, and have absolutely no intension/desire to ever doing so. You have experienced both, and though you are partnered now, may do so again in the future, so by definition, you are bisexual (in my eyes).

If a person has same sex sex fantasies, yet consciously decides to never act on them, for what ever reasons of their own doing, is that bisexual or bi curious?

[tenni]

Mikey
Actually, I don't understand your comments as they seem very far off the premise of this thread. Would you be able to bring them back (tie them into) to the premise of this thread? Bisexuality, happiness, being able to see the grey areas of life, sex and morality.


My commet was directed at people who have never had a same sex encounter, ever, and have absolutely no intension/desire to ever doing so. You have experienced both, and though you are partnered now, may do so again in the future, so by definition, you are bisexual (in my eyes).

If a person has same sex sex fantasies, yet consciously decides to never act on them, for what ever reasons of their own doing, is that bisexual or bi curious?

[Annika L]

My commet was directed at people who have never had a same sex encounter, ever, and have absolutely no intension/desire to ever doing so. You have experienced both, and though you are partnered now, may do so again in the future, so by definition, you are bisexual (in my eyes).

If a person has same sex sex fantasies, yet consciously decides to never act on them, for what ever reasons of their own doing, is that bisexual or bi curious?

I'm glad you're ok with me being bisexual.:tong: But the explanation in my first paragraph still applies in the setting you descxribe.

Suppose I *never* had any sexual contact with men at all, but still had strong desires. It still would not make sense for me to self-identify as lesbian for precisely the reasons I mentioned in my post above. Regardless of any person's intentions today, they cannot know whether they'll ever satisfy their desires...all they can speak to is the existence of those desires. That is what informs their identity. Does this help you to understand?

To make this even clearer, let's uncomplicate matters by considering a straight girl who has never had sex. Maybe she thinks about sex with guys. This leads to fantasies about sexual encounters and various sex acts with guys. Eventually, maybe she masturbates thinking about sex with guys, with or without toys. But she's never actually had sex with a man. Further, she's never had the least desire for sex with a woman. In your estimation, is she straight, straight-curious, or does she lack a sexuality? If for the next year she chooses to remain a virgin, does she in your estimation lack the right to call herself straight, because she is denying her sexuality? I for one would call that silly.

[mikey3000]

Mikey
Actually, I don't understand your comments as they seem very far off the premise of this thread. Would you be able to bring them back (tie them into) to the premise of this thread? Bisexuality, happiness, being able to see the grey areas of life, sex and morality.

Sorry Tenni, my comments were to support Giggles' position. I really couldn't quite figure out what you were originally asking. I think anyone who can't see the greys in life are bound to be unhappy. So much of live happens in the grey areas.

[goldenfinger]

Not sure I understand 'grey. I have as yet not had sex with another man, still waiting for the "right" time.Having a "bisexual" wife, and myself have had fantasies about same sex encounter from late teen, but never acted on it.The desire was never strong when younger, but the fantasy always there, so what does that make me. But has been stated many times, there are two main kind of bisexuals, those in it for the sex only, and those in it for all, love and sex, and I'm not one of the last one.I'm happy, knowing my wife is beside be and support and help me.

[tenni]

Goldfinger
I think it is post 15 where I expanded upon the question. I explained the grey areas as
The grey areas are the areas between black and white...yes and no..the maybe. Grey areas of life are places and times in our life when the answer is not clear.

Now how do the grey areas of being able to perceive that life is not black and white impact on a bisexual's happiness?

In your case a grey area may be whether to act on your same sex interest or wait as you write. You seem to have examined a bisexual issue for you and made a decision that makes you happy. Was there a time when you were uncertain as to whether to act upon your same sex desires but had some moral perspective holding you back? During that time you may have been a grey area or maybe you didn't see it as a maybe time? Did you see it as a definite yes if I do this and no if I don't(black and white...right or wrong). You seem to have resolved any grey area for now. You seem to accept your bisexuality but are there certain moral issues that have you waiting rather than acting on your bisexual desires/needs. It would seem that you are happy with your wife beside you and do not need to act upon your same sex desires. You have found a way to have happiness and adhere to your moral beliefs.

If the condition of having another man who you think that you may have sex and love together, will your moral beliefs be challenged or your happiness? Will you find yourself in a grey area where you are not certain about right and wrong? (not sure if I'm phrasing this properly though)

Good for you though because you have found a way to be a happy bisexual.:bigrin:



Not sure I understand 'grey. I have as yet not had sex with another man, still waiting for the "right" time.Having a "bisexual" wife, and myself have had fantasies about same sex encounter from late teen, but never acted on it.The desire was never strong when younger, but the fantasy always there, so what does that make me. But has been stated many times, there are two main kind of bisexuals, those in it for the sex only, and those in it for all, love and sex, and I'm not one of the last one.I'm happy, knowing my wife is beside be and support and help me.

[mikey3000]

You're wrong and do not know what you are talking about and you do not understand bisexuality.


Dude, that is about the fifth time I seen you start with that line on people here. Not cool. I give my view, you give your view. End of story. Your opening line is offensive and I can't be bothered discussing anything with you.

[Giggles100]

Dude, that is about the fifth time I seen you start with that line on people here. Not cool. I give my view, you give your view. End of story. Your opening line is offensive and I can't be bothered discussing anything with you.

That's true! Seen Cum Sloppy whatever his name is shouting the odd's at people alot......

Real Bisexual people are very open minded. You can see this in action when out on the Bi scene or if you go along to Bicon or any of the festivals/pride events. We also wouldn't choose a name like that either........ it's pretty offensive!

I'l leave my statement there..... The word I want CumSloppyHole to focus on is the emboldened one.

[wildwestgoob]

Dude, that is about the fifth time I seen you start with that line on people here. Not cool. I give my view, you give your view. End of story. Your opening line is offensive and I can't be bothered discussing anything with you.

Yeah, I agree, after reading that opening line, I completely skipped the rest of the post.

Anyone who does not have YOUR particular point of view must apparently be incapable of being "right"....

That is not a discussion.

That is an attack.

[wildwestgoob]

Giggles-You've shown how you're young, silly, and naive. Just because someone is bisexual or gay that does not mean that they are going to be open minded or are more likely to be open minded.
.

That pretty much sums it up.

Unfortunately,closed-minded people usually have the most open mouths.

:rolleyes:

[tenni]

Cum
Are you bisexual? Are you happy?