My personal hang-ups; opinions accepted

[wildwestgoob]

I see quite a few guys going through tough times since coming out about being "bi" to their spouses.

I just think that is the biggest mistake a guy can ever make.
(just my personal opinion, please don't tar and feather me for having an opinion)

The chances of having the "perfect" spouse that has the mental capacity to take that revelation for what it is instead of taking it as a personal attack... well lets just assume you are looking for one in 40 billion, and the chances of that person being YOUR spouse are worse than your chances at playing the lottery.

Having that said, then what?????

THAT is the *big* issue that seems to be at hand... what *do* you do?

I have been married to my only wife for going on two decades.
I love her to death, would never think of hurting her.
We have a wonderful son about to start pre-school.
My wife and I run our own business.
I am not going do anything within my power to screw that up.
If I even THINK that any of my very limited opportunities at personal playtime might endanger what I have worked so hard to build over the last 20 years, it just won't happen.

What I feel sexually is beyond a "fetish" or a "fascination". I am truly "bi".
I like the feel/touch/smell/taste of men and women equally.


But I also know how to separate emotional feelings from sexual feelings.
For *me* sex is nothing more than an action. No one should equate the act of sex with emotion/devotion. It's the everyday things you do and experience in life that create emotions and devotion to a particular person.
You have emotional feelings for your brother/sister/grandparents/parents, etc but you don't have SEX with them to create those emotions and devotion (at least we HOPE not).

I can say sex is nothing more than an action/reaction due to the fact that animals do it every day and think nothing of it. "Oh, but we are better than animals.." you say... well yes, we are, animals are not capable of "enhancing" the sexual act as we humans have... toys... lubes... music... candle light...
We are better AT IT, but we are still doing *IT* ... an act.

So where has this brought us?
I don't look at my personal playtime as anything more than that... it's number one *PERSONAL* and number two it's just playtime... I am *NOT* looking to find another spouse. I don't LIKE the term "cheating" and don't for a minute consider what I do to be such. I am not going after sex because I am not getting any at home or because I cant stand my wife. I seek out personal playtime like guys seek out personal time to play golf ... it is an activity I really enjoy, and if played properly, and SAFELY, won't hurt anyone.

Am I in the closet? Yes, and quite frankly, I LIKE being in said closet.
Not many "gay" people (men or women) really *honestly* get what it is like to be bi.
At least this is my experience. They are completely one way or the other, as straight people are expected to be.
Pigeon-holed into (A or (B...

I think that "bi" is the last great unknown in sexuality.
I think it would actually be more difficult to be a bi-guy in this world and BE OPEN ABOUT IT.

I am a very careful planner. I select the location carefully. I select where I leave my vehicle carefully. I don't leave a paper trail or an electronic footprint.
It's called CYA.... cover your ass.

I could write a book on how NOT to get caught, but then EVERYONE would be able to get a copy, then those of us acting covertly would be screwed !

My point to this long-winded diatribe?
Don't get caught... (if you need pointers on that, feel free to contact me privately)
DON'T tell the wifey for cripes sake !
No good can come from that !
If you feel like you just HAVE to talk to SOMEONE to "get *it* of your chest" then do as I have done, join a safe anonymous place like this and TALK about it all you want !
(and hope to not get tarred and feathered for your personal beliefs)
:rolleyes:

[rissababynta]

Well you said that opinions were accepted so here goes:

I am so tired of threads about this bullshit.
If any of you out there want to fuck around behind your spouses back, fine, whatever, but stop acting like you are doing nothing wrong and/or condoning it.
I kind of always thought that this was somewhat universally understood to be a mean thing to do to someone...that is until being on this website.

Enough said from me, I'm done. From now on I'm stearing clear from threads like this one.

[wildwestgoob]

So much for not being tarred and feathered.
:2cents:

[allbimyself]

I won't tar and feather you, I'm just calling BULLSHIT!


The chances of having the "perfect" spouse that has the mental capacity to take that revelation for what it is instead of taking it as a personal attack... well lets just assume you are looking for one in 40 billion, and the chances of that person being YOUR spouse are worse than your chances at playing the lottery. BULLSHIT!

Actually, the majority of the married bisexuals I personally know are out to their spouses and both are happy.


DON'T tell the wifey for cripes sake !
No good can come from that !BULLSHIT!
A lot of good can come from it. Yes, it's a risk, but so is fucking around behind your partner's back.

People like you are the reason so many str8 spouses of bisexuals are scared and freak out when told.

[Lisa (va)]

I understand the basis of your thoughts, but only on the surface.

Can you risk losing everything, by opening up to a spouse? Yes
Can you risk losing everything by cheating on a spouse ? Yes

Animals have sex? yes
Are we animals? yes, but hopefully with some decency to others

Is it good to be careful of the whens and wheres ? yes
Is decieveing one's partner (aka lieing) wrong? yes

those are just my opinions, feel free to tar and feather me as well.

Lisa

hugs n kisses

[Giggles100]

People like you are the reason so many str8 spouses of bisexuals are scared and freak out when told.

Hear Hear :bigrin:

Cheating is cheating whatever way you look at it. There is no real excuse for it! Your just adding to the whole "Bi people sleep around and can't be trusted stereotype".

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

You have your opinion, and thats all fine and dandy, but it doesnt hold truth, and thats the issue here. Cheating is never the right option no matter what. If you cant be honest, then dont cheat. Plain and simple. Not trying to tar anf feather you, just telling you Our opinion of cheaters.
Cat

[Karasel]

Ok, you have your opinion but I have a completely different one. I believe in honesty. I would tell my spouse before we even got married.. Though I'm not sure if you knew you are bi before you got married, or not... This isn't a personal attack to you, it's me voicing my feelings on the matter.

I have a very "French" mindset, where I love wholly and passionately and never expect a relationship to end in marriage. I see it as more of a journey. Though I do understand that you are in a different place in your life than I, and I can't imagine being in your situation. I still feel honesty is the best way to go about things.

I know I'm just speaking for myself, but I would rather have my partner/spouse to have sex with other people behind my back, than having lies told to me about something as big as their own sexuality.

Again this is no judgment onto you, but just me expressing my own views and feelings.

[tenni]

I think that the OP is discussing one type of bisexual males who do not connect same sex activity with emotional attachment. Other types of bisexuals may not apply to what else I'm going to write. Many males tend to report being able to do this whether with men or women partners.

I think that we need to acknowledge that different approaches work for different bisexuals.

I'm not going to write that I am so tired about reading how not disclosing to your wife is wrong. It really should only be said that the bisexual knows that disclosing to his/her partner was the best thing for them to do. I noticed in threads discussing such things back in 2005-06 that the majority view was completely opposite to many who post on this site now? In other words, the common view was not to disclose to your partner back then. (at least the thread that I came across..can not remember its name now though....so shoot me ;)

It would be interesting if a study was done on this issue but I don't think that it has been done. From what I read and have heard:
1/ If you disclose to your husband or wife before you marry, it seems to be the best approach
2/ If you do not disclose before marriage regardless of the reason:
a/ women find it easier to disclose to their husbands than husbands find to disclose to their wives.
b/ husbands are more accepting of their wive's bisexuality than wives are accepting of their husbands' bisexuality from self disclosure on this site

That having been written, it is unpredictable whether disclosing after marriage makes it better for the husband or the marriage itself. We only have the word of some who say that it does.

Therefore, those who make broad sweeping statements about husbands disclosing to their wives might be better to make it only applicable to themselves. Ranting about cheating is imposing your own moral value decision on to others (acting as a god). You might as well go and say that being bisexual is wrong. There are however a lot of negatives when a man who is married decides to not disclose and continue to have sex with other men without telling their wives. It may be unfair as the wife doesn't get to decide if she wants to remain in the marriage.

Keeping emotion out of a discussion of this nature is difficult but perhaps best.

I think that those who are attempting to impose moral values on other bisexuals are not really helpful in keeping this forum open and accepting. They are condemning and silencing bisexuals who are struggling with their sexuality. (mostly married men it seems)

I commend the OP for having the confidence to state his perspective and knowing that some may be against him for doing so.

Plato might have an interesting discussion with you Cat about what is "truth" :)

[rissababynta]

Ranting about cheating is imposing your own moral value decision on to others (acting as a god).

Oh ok, so imposing your own moral values on your significant other without giving them the option of having a choice in the matter is ok. Thanks for clearing that one up:rolleyes:

[darkeyes]

Wot personal hang ups???? aaaahh!!! Gorrit... now me knos.. shaggin round wiv otha guys an bein a selfish gett who don giv a sod bout ne 1 but 'imsel an not tellin "the wifey"... thaaaat hang up...

.. opinion.. bastard!!!

[tenni]

Rissa
I think that you are mixing up two different issues.
Imposing your moral value on to other bisexuals on this website is different from disclosing to a significant other.

It is your opinion and moral perspective that you should disclose to a partner.
Disclosing to a partner is not a moral decision. It is a fact and an action. Whether it is right or wrong is a moral decision.

I also see women taking a slightly different perspective on this issue. Yes, some men will state that failure to disclose is wrong. Some will even be evangelical about it. There is another group of men who remain silent but if you check their profiles you will see that they are doing this. They've made their decision not to disclose and don't give a f*ck what you think.

Oh ok, so imposing your own moral values on your significant other without giving them the option of having a choice in the matter is ok. Thanks for clearing that one up:rolleyes:

[FalconAngel]

Well you said that opinions were accepted so here goes:

I am so tired of threads about this bullshit.
If any of you out there want to fuck around behind your spouses back, fine, whatever, but stop acting like you are doing nothing wrong and/or condoning it.
I kind of always thought that this was somewhat universally understood to be a mean thing to do to someone...that is until being on this website.

Enough said from me, I'm done. From now on I'm stearing clear from threads like this one.

Ditto, here.

Wildwestgoob -- "So much for not being tarred and feathered."

Dude, you haven't even come close to being tarred and feathered. I could wail on for a while on the subject, but I have the feeling that others will do a far better job of tarring and feathering on you than Ryssa or us could ever do.
But your desire to cheat on your spouse is a large demonstration of character, and not for the better.

[rissababynta]

Rissa
I think that you are mixing up two different issues.
Imposing your moral value on to other bisexuals on this website is different from disclosing to a significant other.

It is your opinion and moral perspective that you should disclose to a partner.
Disclosing to a partner is not a moral decision. It is a fact and an action. Whether it is right or wrong is a moral decision.

I also see women taking a slightly different perspective on this issue. Yes, some men will state that failure to disclose is wrong. Some will even be evangelical about it. There is another group of men who remain silent but if you check their profiles you will see that they are doing this. They've made their decision not to disclose and don't give a f*ck what you think.

Tenni, you seem to be the one mixing things up, because you still seem to think that because you are bisexual, that changes the rules of what is and is not appropriate behavior when dealing with supposed loved ones.

[tenni]

"Tenni, you seem to be the one mixing things up, because you still seem to think that because you are bisexual, that changes the rules of what is and is not appropriate behavior when dealing with supposed loved ones."
__________________

Yes, I do.

You are a bisexual woman in a heterosexual marriage who has decided to live a monogomous relationship. Even with your husband's permission, you have decided not to enter into a same sex relationship beyond your marriage. That is your decision. It works for you. Not everyone has that life circumstance.

It appears not to work for some married men. Different circumstances.

I'm not saying that their method is the best. It doesn't impact my life unless I decide to get involved with such a guy. I do and so it works for me right now.

Mind your own business Rissa. Live your life as a bisexual woman in a monogomous heterosexual marriage. Be happy and live your traditional marriage. Let others work out their life. You and the other preachy married opposite sex bisexuals live your own life. Your way doesn't work for all bisexual men.

[krrptyc]

It's interesting that the folks condeming Goober are in a bi-relationship and seeking other couples or singles to join them or they are single. Not all of us have been lucky enough to have an understanding spouse.

That said, I believe in honesty and told my spouse about my bi-side several years ago. She was not thrilled to say the least. She allowed the use of toys but absolutley refuse the inviting another man. Not long after that she lost her libido and has no interest in sex. We have not been intimate for years now. She has admitted that she does not seek close physical contact because she is afraid I will get excited and want sex.

About 6 months ago, I promised her that she could hug me, caress me, kiss me, or whatever and I would not intiate sex. However, I also told her that I needed sex and wanted to find a buddy. No love, no women, just someone to trade oral pleasures with. She said NO! She said it would have a bad affect on our marriage. She suggested I look into chemical castration.

OKay, so now what? Divorce? That would be bad for our marriage. Chemical castration? I think not! So at this point I am beginning to agree with goober. If I get together with some every once in a while and it keeps me happy and I leave her alone, which makes her happy.

I would be very greatful for any alternatives you care to suggest.

[citystyleguy]

wow! lot of heavy things going on here! many opinions, all freely expressed, thank god for that! as to my two cents, the 'other' party in your life knows damn well what you're up to, if not the details the general idea. you think its hidden, but there are all types of signs; i know that my wife had a good idea as to when my bf/lover (hate these tags, never satisfactory) and i hooked up for more serious things, but she never said, asked, whatever, and i will never have the chance to know! despite that, our life together was as good as any long-term marriage; we enjoyed each other in whatever way you want to imagine, and near the end expressed that love in whatever way that she could, so there is no doubt in my mind as to the depth of our love. and it wasnt any different with my guy, either!

i am not one to make my opinions, positions, known wide and far, unless there is some compelling reason, and saying that, i wont lie about it either; if that means i lose someone, then there wasnt much there to save! in trying to tell my wife, from the very beginning, it was clear that it was like the armed forces thing, if not asked, dont tell, so i didnt push it, i didnt play around, and when my bf/lover was gone, i didnt take up with anyone else. that lasted more than a decade after he was gone, and now that she is gone, i havent pursued anyone with any seriousness.

however, one thing i hold absolutly true, is that honesty, frankness, is the only way to be; if you think every thing is hidden, the only fool in the relationship is yourself!

[wildwestgoob]

I too tend to lean toward don't ask, don't tell.
I am also amused slightly at the fact that the heated responses come from mostly women, emotional women at that, another good reason I *DON'T* share any playtime with women.

I do not hide my relationship status with anyone I plan to meet (very few by the way) and if they don't like that situation, I politely say thank you for your time.

I have spoken online to people who are perfectly happy with smoking dope, getting shit-faced and driving, smacking their kids/wife around, (insert your own abhorrent behavior here) but find out about my "alternative" lifestyle, and come unglued, much the same as has been the response here.


As most of you will notice, you will NOT see any posts from the HUNDREDS of married men out there, who are members of this very site, who are doing/feeling the very same way that I am.
Does that make my/others actions "right" in your eyes?
Heck no.
Do we care what you think? not particularly.

No more than YOU care that there is still a GREAT MAJORITY OF HUMANS in this country who will DIE AT GUNPOINT before they "allow a faggot/dike to get married" in *their* town... By gawduh...
Can I get a halleloo-ya...

You will get up in arms for gay rights, but stomp on my rights.
Nice.
That's equality right there.

Home of the free, land of the "I'm right, You're wrong, so fuck off"

If any like-minded males have gotten thus far in this thread, consider this an open invitation to contact someone who actually UNDERSTANDS and sympathizes with your plight, whether it be considered right or wrong in the eyes of others.

[tenni]

HornedRam or GayAZN
You didn't read my post very carefully. That's ok.

It is not my business to analyse Rissa's relationships. If I have misinterpreted what I have read previously, I apologize to her but I was referring to her same sex relationships.

She is a very pretty, intelligent, sweet lady and I mean her no stress or disrespect.

[Annika L]

I find it interesting (given the name of this thread) that the OP doesn't really talk about personal hang-ups, and doesn't really seem all that accepting of opinions.

Well, goob, you certainly opened up a discussion!

To cheat is to violate an agreement or understanding secretly. If you're married and haven't discussed sex outside your marriage with your wife, then you have at least an implicit understanding that you will not screw around. Therefore, to do so behind her back is cheating...whether you like that word or not.

I am curious to know how you would feel if you found out that your wife was out screwing around with other guys (oh, discreetly and safely, of course).

Oh yeah...and *what* was your point about gay marriage, exactly? (I ask as a bisexual woman partnered monogamously to another woman for over 23 years.) It seemed completely incoherent and unrelated...or maybe I'm not getting it, because I'm just an overly emotional female?

But back to Rissa's point, if you're gonna cheat, why not have the balls to admit that's what you're doing? If you're truly secure in what you're doing, why the need to weave a thin tapestry of rationalization about it?

[tenni]

Annika
What are your suggestions for krrptyc's situation?

Should he "obey" his wife and get chemical castration to solve "his" problem?

[Long Duck Dong]

Annika
What are your suggestions for krrptyc's situation?

Should he "obey" his wife and get chemical castration to solve "his" problem?

what problem ??? the only problem I see the person having is that they feel that without sex, they can not survive......

honestly i have never worked that out.... how people feel that they can not live or function without have sex and for a lot of them its a case of they will have sex, and fuck the consequences,.....

[Eddie altamonte]

Cheating is always wrong there is no justification for cheating ever IMO...Sorry II hear you but if you cant trust your wife and still wanna play around all you are doing is fooling yourself and without knowing it destroying your relationship

[elmwood7]

Personally I think everyone of you puts too much importance on sex. It's nothing but a thing.It in itself doesn't determine a good marriage from a bad marriage.Many people have good marriages with no sex at all and others marriages fall apart even though the sex was great.Personally I've been married 36 yrs. to the same woman. From the beginning I told her I didn't give a damn what she does or who she does it with. And I told her I would probrobly do the same. Her only request was I be discreet and safe. I don't think I have ever heard wedding vows saying anything about no sex with others.It's just a thing. It's not like their gonna use it up. Lighten up. There are too many really important things to worry about in life than who's screwing who.Most women and som fem guys insist on putting emotional ties on sex. But like it or not most guys think sex is just sex. And I for one don't care who has sex with who. It is just a thing.... Ok Bash away. I also could care less what anyone thinks. I only have to please myself. I have no obligation to please any of you.Besides most of you barking the loudest are still snot nosed little kids who know nothing of real life or what's important.

[darkeyes]

I too tend to lean toward don't ask, don't tell.
I am also amused slightly at the fact that the heated responses come from mostly women, emotional women at that, another good reason I *DON'T* share any playtime with women.

I do not hide my relationship status with anyone I plan to meet (very few by the way) and if they don't like that situation, I politely say thank you for your time.

I have spoken online to people who are perfectly happy with smoking dope, getting shit-faced and driving, smacking their kids/wife around, (insert your own abhorrent behavior here) but find out about my "alternative" lifestyle, and come unglued, much the same as has been the response here.


As most of you will notice, you will NOT see any posts from the HUNDREDS of married men out there, who are members of this very site, who are doing/feeling the very same way that I am.
Does that make my/others actions "right" in your eyes?
Heck no.
Do we care what you think? not particularly.

No more than YOU care that there is still a GREAT MAJORITY OF HUMANS in this country who will DIE AT GUNPOINT before they "allow a faggot/dike to get married" in *their* town... By gawduh...
Can I get a halleloo-ya...

You will get up in arms for gay rights, but stomp on my rights.
Nice.
That's equality right there.

Home of the free, land of the "I'm right, You're wrong, so fuck off"

If any like-minded males have gotten thus far in this thread, consider this an open invitation to contact someone who actually UNDERSTANDS and sympathizes with your plight, whether it be considered right or wrong in the eyes of others.

Hun.. no one is stopping u cheating. No is cuffing u 2 a lamp post and stopping u from doing whatever you want.. what people are saying.. the hysterical emotional women among us is that, should you indeed love your wife, you should not go off and do your thing without discussing it with her and having her approval. Anything less is dishonest, shitty and downright selfish, not to say a little dangerous. Have your cake and eat it. Do it by all means.. your choice. God help you if and when your "wifey" finds out.

I am merely an emotional woman.. but can speak with authority about going off and doing my own thing.. and have seen the emotional destruction it can cause. I me luffly, have been cheated upon and it hurt.. the knife was twisted in my gut and you have no idea just how much pain it caused. However, more to the point, I have cheated.. once on my ex-husband and seen just how much pain that caused. I cheated on, if not physically, certainly emotionally, literally and planned to in reality, my present partner, having been sufficiently selfish as to fret about the pain caused by cheating on my hubbie, yet did so in the hope that what she doesnt know cant hurt. She did find out, because people often find out, and walked away from our life together and for a long time I was alone miserable and emotionally vulnerable, not to say unstable. That she ultimately forgave and came back to me makes me the luckiest human being on earth. But many tears, much stress, and a great deal of time passed, with much happening in the interim to both of us which we never envisaged.

I can live with sharing, being shared. I can accept and would accept the love of my life having affairs and relationships with other people.. men as well as women. However many people are incapable of doing this. For the purposes of this thread it does not matter why, or whether it is right or wrong. They simply are. My partner is one such person. I saw the emotional destruction, the pain on her face, which was wrought on her by my selfishness and stupidity...and the devastation and desolation felt by me as she walked out of the door, never I thought then, to return. I remember the words thrown at each other, the begging, the accusations, the curses. Such things can never be unsaid. They remain in the memory till the day we die.

Having been through that, and having two people who loved each other almost destroy what they have because of the selfishness of one, and the agonies endured by both, it is not something I ever wish to go through again. More to the point.. it is not something I ever wish my partner to endure. For her it is unendurable. I have learned to respect that and accept what she wants from me in our relationship. Is her wish selfish on her part? Yes. Is it unnacceptable? No I dont think so. She is a product of her upbringing, as am I. That hers has instilled in her different values about some things from mine is normal in any relationship.

Loving and committing to each other by necessity, involves compromise by both parties. Not necessarily however, in all things. There are things, at least as important to me in their own way as sex, wonderful though it is, upon which I refuse to compromise. She accepts that. Fidelity is one thing upon which she can never compromise. Having gone through what we have, I have learned to accept that. Never again do I intend to see, cause or endure the pain of cheating. It is not for us, because what we have is to us, more important than, much more important, than the alternative.. and the potential agony of the alternative is simply not worth it.

.. I end by just pointing out this.. in a relationship between two people where both are happy for the other to do their own things sexually is one thing. However, where one is happily ignorant of the others straying the nest, and has never given such approval, in this day and age, no matter how safely we practice sex, dangers exist. Should your partner not be given the knowledge in advance to enable her to protect herself? Your health may be unimportant to you. Take whatever risks you wish with your own health. But you NEVER have the right to take risks with the health of another human being without their knowledge and approval...

[Giggles100]

Hey Darkeyes!

Your not an emotional woman! It's guys who are unemotional morons like the op who think its fine to completely obliterate other peoples lives to get what they desire :(.

Your a fantastic girl Darkeyes! Never put yourself down :bigrin: :flag3:

[allbimyself]

I too tend to lean toward don't ask, don't tell.
I am also amused slightly at the fact that the heated responses come from mostly women, emotional women at that, another good reason I *DON'T* share any playtime with women. Misogynist much?


I do not hide my relationship status with anyone I plan to meet (very few by the way) and if they don't like that situation, I politely say thank you for your time.Yet you don't offer the same consideration to your wife. Only with strangers, all men, are you honest. To your own wife you lie. Seems to me that you look upon women as less than men.


I have spoken online to people who are perfectly happy with smoking dope, getting shit-faced and driving, smacking their kids/wife around, (insert your own abhorrent behavior here) but find out about my "alternative" lifestyle, and come unglued, much the same as has been the response here.Ahhh, I see. The old "other people do worse than me so that excuses me" argument. Apples and oranges, dude. You are comparing illegal activities to unethical ones. Many, many things are unethical but not illegal.



As most of you will notice, you will NOT see any posts from the HUNDREDS of married men out there, who are members of this very site, who are doing/feeling the very same way that I am.
Does that make my/others actions "right" in your eyes?
Heck no.Then you weren't paying attention.

Do we care what you think? not particularly.You obviously do. Your original post was clearly intended to seek approval. Your defensiveness proves you do care what others think.


No more than YOU care that there is still a GREAT MAJORITY OF HUMANS in this country who will DIE AT GUNPOINT before they "allow a faggot/dike to get married" in *their* town... By gawduh...
Can I get a halleloo-ya...

You will get up in arms for gay rights, but stomp on my rights.
Nice.
That's equality right there.WTF? Who is stomping on your rights? No one is preventing you from fucking around. No one is suggesting that legislation be passed to throw cheaters in prison. Disagreeing with your opinion that there is nothing wrong with cheating does not inhibit your rights. If you really think that then your reasoning abilities are questionable to the point that you probably cannot tell the difference between right and wrong, are probably sociopathic, and debating this with you is pointless.


Home of the free, land of the "I'm right, You're wrong, so fuck off"

If any like-minded males have gotten thus far in this thread, consider this an open invitation to contact someone who actually UNDERSTANDS and sympathizes with your plight, whether it be considered right or wrong in the eyes of others.You could have easily said this in your original post without all the defensiveness that went with it, the justification for your actions. Others commented on your post because you chose to speak in platitudes justifying your actions. All you had to say was "I'm a married man looking for discrete encounters." But when you attempt to justify your cheating you open yourself up for comments from others. You obviously don't like hearing those comments, so don't open yourself up to them.

Is cheating ever justified? Probably, tho in many cases there are alternatives. The problem here is that you blatantly said that no bisexual man should ever be honest with his spouse, just go out and fuck. That shows a vast ignorance of the multitude of relationships that people have and the levels of love and communication that exist between couples.

[darkeyes]

Hey Darkeyes!

Your not an emotional woman! It's guys who are unemotional morons like the op who think its fine to completely obliterate other peoples lives to get what they desire :(.

Your a fantastic girl Darkeyes! Never put yourself down :bigrin: :flag3:

If ya ev sees me in floods hun.. ya will soon find out me emotional ok..:)

An am not doin mesel down hun..sumtimes... even me can b a lil self effacin.. not this time.. am jus tellin dickhead how it is.. an that me is no angel so dus kno summat a wot me is sayin..... am fulla flaws like ne 1 else..thats all.. but hav learned.. through hard experience.. an not so long go eitha.. that the world is moren bout me an wot me wonts outa life...

[darkeyes]

Misogynist much?
Yet you don't offer the same consideration to your wife. Only with strangers, all men, are you honest. To your own wife you lie. Seems to me that you look upon women as less than men.

Ahhh, I see. The old "other people do worse than me so that excuses me" argument. Apples and oranges, dude. You are comparing illegal activities to unethical ones. Many, many things are unethical but not illegal.


Then you weren't paying attention.You obviously do. Your original post was clearly intended to seek approval. Your defensiveness proves you do care what others think.

WTF? Who is stomping on your rights? No one is preventing you from fucking around. No one is suggesting that legislation be passed to throw cheaters in prison. Disagreeing with your opinion that there is nothing wrong with cheating does not inhibit your rights. If you really think that then your reasoning abilities are questionable to the point that you probably cannot tell the difference between right and wrong, are probably sociopathic, and debating this with you is pointless.

You could have easily said this in your original post without all the defensiveness that went with it, the justification for your actions. Others commented on your post because you chose to speak in platitudes justifying your actions. All you had to say was "I'm a married man looking for discrete encounters." But when you attempt to justify your cheating you open yourself up for comments from others. You obviously don't like hearing those comments, so don't open yourself up to them.

Is cheating ever justified? Probably, tho in many cases there are alternatives. The problem here is that you blatantly said that no bisexual man should ever be honest with his spouse, just go out and fuck. That shows a vast ignorance of the multitude of relationships that people have and the levels of love and communication that exist between couples.

God Allbi..las cuppla years or so we on same side gettin ridiculous:tong: Who wudda thot it huh?

Did thinka sayin summat bout "othas doin worse than me" but wos pressed for time.. but yas rite.. its the excuse a the feeble minded.. the brain dead... those who r unable 2 justify an rationalise properly so they grapple round lookin for excuses.. its the rationale a the liar, the dishonest, the thief, the killer.. the corrupt.. each tries 2 justify by sayin sum1 else dus worse.. its no excuse.. is still a lie..still dishonest, an ultimately still liable 2 bring 'pon the unsuspecting, the blameless the mos awful anguish an pain..an bring 'pon every1 concerned sumtimes the mos appallin consequences...:(

[12voltman59]

Posts like this make me go "hmmmmm-wonder if its bogus or not??" ( I put my money down---they are BBBBBOOGGGGGUSSSSS!!!!!--designed to stir up the pot!!!)

[darkeyes]

Posts like this make me go "hmmmmm-wonder if its bogus or not??" ( I put my money down---they are BBBBBOOGGGGGUSSSSS!!!!!--designed to stir up the pot!!!)

Has occurred to me Voltie 2.. but fact is that lotsa guys, an even some gals think like 'im an act like it...Cant b iggied can it?:(

[Karasel]

I just don't think it is healthy to be lying to your wife about this. All the time that together and sharing your life with one another, but still hiding a piece of yourself from the one you love is not fair. And to just assume that she couldn't handle it, would be under-minding her love for you. She could be fine with it, she could be curious herself, or she could have a complete melt-down.

But telling her now would still be miles better than her somehow randomly catching you in the act, or becoming suspicious.

:2cents:

[rissababynta]

"Tenni, you seem to be the one mixing things up, because you still seem to think that because you are bisexual, that changes the rules of what is and is not appropriate behavior when dealing with supposed loved ones."
__________________

Yes, I do.

You are a bisexual woman in a heterosexual marriage who has decided to live a monogomous relationship. Even with your husband's permission, you have decided not to enter into a same sex relationship beyond your marriage. That is your decision. It works for you. Not everyone has that life circumstance.

It appears not to work for some married men. Different circumstances.

I'm not saying that their method is the best. It doesn't impact my life unless I decide to get involved with such a guy. I do and so it works for me right now.

Mind your own business Rissa. Live your life as a bisexual woman in a monogomous heterosexual marriage. Be happy and live your traditional marriage. Let others work out their life. You and the other preachy married opposite sex bisexuals live your own life. Your way doesn't work for all bisexual men.

Your whole post was irrelivent after your first paragraph where you mentioned that I choose not to enter a same sex relationship. I have and will also continue to have girlfriends. Since you have already proven that you don't know much about my marriage or anyone elses, your post means little to me.

By the way, cheaters ARE my business because I have dealt with people before where I was not aware that they were with someone else and that other person didn't know and before I knew it, I started having people threatening to come to MY home and beat me up for something I was an innocent part of.

[wildwestgoob]

Pulled from another thread: "... She will never be able to trust me again and i can understand that , something i have hidden for 39 years has now become public . My heart bleeds everyday when i see her crying , all my pride has gone , i do not feel good knowing i have made her feel this way . I do not feel like a man anymore , i am not feeling self pity or for anyone to take pity on me . I am just confused and exhausted .

And yet another..." to anyone thinking of coming out to their spouse is to use extreme caution, cause once you do, there is no going back. I made a huge mistake. My wife is on the verge of leaving me ..."


This is my point.

There are growing numbers of us guys out there (and probably even gals) who would RATHER be content with being silent to their spouses about their hang-ups (for an eternity if need be) rather than put them through grief and destroy an otherwise wonderful relationship.

There are no perfect relationships people, I am not saying mine is, wont even go into *yours*... there are those who sneak a drink or a smoke behind their spouses back... there are those who sneak around and buy *that ONE * pair of shoes they just couldn't live without... there are some of you I am sure who have some little "snack" hidden somewhere, just in case...

It's all cheating in one way or another.
To what DEGREE however is another thing.
All things in moderation? Perhaps that is the key.

It's like the guy whose wife told HIM to just go have *it* removed :eek: just cause SHE didn't want to have sex anymore???!!! Seriously?

That sounds just a tad selfish don't you think?

Just because you happen to be 100% "happy" and "satisfied" in your current relationship is not a requirement that everyone else be just as "happy".

"Well then you should just LEAVE that mate and find a new one!"....:(
Right, and that's just one more reason why the divorce rate in this country continues to grow... Don't bother to work with it, or work around it, just leave it, it's not a big deal to get a divorce right? It's just paperwork after all.

It's always easier to cast stones when you are on the outside looking in.
Every situation is different, so I cannot condone any particular situation, however, I can certainly offer a degree of understanding that is obviously so lacking HERE.

You cannot, by definition, be permanently attached to a single spouse who is either the same sex or the opposite sex, in a monogamous relationship, and still call yourself "bi". That is indeed laughable to me.

Perhaps you had bi tendencies at one time, but you are obviously not now.

I have some friends who are married, have kids, and have a live in "roomie" who is female that has her own two kids. She is a great help to them as "nanny" as well as helping with a portion of the rent.
She is also bi, and so is the husband's wife. They all three play together at times, and other times they play individually.
Dream arrangement for some I imagine. Nightmare for others.
Those two girls, are positively, actively "bi" in every sense of the word.

I am not , HAVE NOT suggested that anyone and everyone run right out and find themselves a playmate on the side, sneaking, cheating, whatever your definition may be.
The lifestyle myself and others have found themselves in is not for just anyone who wants "to try something new".

I *AM* however suggesting that some of you need to accept the *fact* that there are many more of us than you would like to admit, and that PERHAPS opening up a dialog with one or two of us might be more helpful in gaining some sort of understanding (not asking for your acceptance) rather than tar and feathers....

My point in referring to the gay/lesbian community is that you fine folks have been going through this SAME SORT OF THING for the last, oh what, 50 years?

It appears that closeted bi, married guys/gals are the new "undesirables".
Less than human.

Go figure.

The hate-filled responses here only solidify the need for so many of us to REMAIN closeted, and CONTINUE to "sneak around/cheat" because of the very attitudes shown here.

Rather than solving your perceived "problem/menace to society" you in fact are making it worse by your own actions.
Congratulations!
:rolleyes:

[darkeyes]

:rolleyes: ..an there fore afta that lil outburst a hysteria hun.. my partner..bi woman livin in a monogamous lesbian relationship..fancies the rocks off lotsa guys..will in a few years not b able 2 consida 'ersel bisexual? ... an a cuppla me m8's..livin in monogamous heterosexual relationships will nev b able 2 consida themsels Bi? Me best m8 an 'er gf..livin in a monogamous lesbian relationship.. both bi...will cease 2 b bi wen they ole an grey? Not 2 sure ya undastand sexuality if thats wotya think..

WTF eva sed that closetted bisexual peeps r considad undesirables? Jeez..ya r such a tit.. think u oughta go buy yasel a new brain an read up on sexuality...

[rissababynta]

Well since no one sent the memo to my house that bisexual males have different rules when it comes to cheating, I felt like sharing the news with my husband. I said "Baby, did you know that you are allowed to cheat on me now?" and he said "Really?" I then said "Yes it's because you are bisexual. Apparently the rules have changed for bisexual men when it comes down to common courtesy and respect." Then he looked at me like I was a retard.

Just spreading the word :bigrin::tong:

[darkeyes]

...more 2 the point goob hun..read up bout relationships in genral.. mayb then ya will jus learn summat... tho prob not...doubt ya hav the capacity 2 take ne of it in....

[tenni]

"The hate-filled responses here only solidify the need for so many of us to REMAIN closeted, and CONTINUE to "sneak around/cheat" because of the very attitudes shown here."

wildwestgoob
I agree basically with all that you have written. The so called "bisexuals" who are writing with intolerance and condemnation should tone it down on this site.

I do believe that a bisexual may live in a heterosexual monogomous lifestyle but they are repressing part of who they are. That is their decision. They tend to ignore that just by being bisexual that others will condemn them as "wrong". Many of them acknowledge that there is a wide range of bisexuality but not a wide range as to how to live as a bisexual man. It is time for the judgmental posters to reflect and hold back a bit more with their words. Tone it down and whether they like it or not accept this aspect of bisexuality. I agree that their negative and judgmental words push a section of bisexual men into deeper secrecy and guilt. They are isolating a segment of bisexuals.

[darkeyes]

"The hate-filled responses here only solidify the need for so many of us to REMAIN closeted, and CONTINUE to "sneak around/cheat" because of the very attitudes shown here."

wildwestgoob
I agree basically with all that you have written. The so called "bisexuals" who are writing with intolerance and condemnation should tone it down on this site.

I do believe that a bisexual may live in a heterosexual monogomous lifestyle but they are repressing part of who they are. That is their decision. They tend to ignore that just by being bisexual that others will condemn them as "wrong". Many of them acknowledge that there is a wide range of bisexuality but not a wide range as to how to live as a bisexual man. It is time for the judgmental posters to reflect and hold back a bit more with their words. Tone it down and whether they like it or not accept this aspect of bisexuality. I agree that their negative and judgmental words push a section of bisexual men into deeper secrecy and guilt. They are isolating a segment of bisexuals.

So Tenni..wotyas sayin is that it is ok 2 lie an cheat an go behind bak a ur partner wivout fear or favour? Only intolerance me has seen in this thread is peeps who h8 the dishonesty an sheer brass nek that Goob is preachin.. God knos me has nev been perfect angel in this regard, but hav learned jus how much pain cums from such actions... an so hav learned..

Jus who r we isolatin?? Liars an cheats... is they who give gay an bisexual peeps the shitty name we hav in many quarters... wot 'e is sayin is jus the sorta thing many anti gay an bi peeps tell us we r... sexual scum..degenerates, pervs who care for no 1 but themsels an will do ne thin..hurt ne 1.. 2 get ther end away!!!

[meandnicole01]

Alrighty I think instead of responding to everyone else's..uh...responses, I'll just respond to the original posting.

My husband is about 90% open about his bisexuality. His brother doesn't know and a couple of our friends are in the dark about it but that's really it. We were probably about 3 months in to dating when he told me about it. He was nervous and I know for sure that it took a lot of courage to tell me. I was so very grateful that he wanted to share that part of himself with me after such a short time together and, I may be the minority on this one, I found it to be a HUGE turn-on! Still do ;) I understand that 3 months doesn't compete with 20 years but who defines what the "right" time is to tell somebody that?

There could be a million reasons you don't want to tell your wife ranging from questioning how open-minded she is to (and please, please don't take offense to this) the possibility that your being sneaky about it makes a sexual experience with another man more exciting. BEFORE you all start attacking me, I didn't say I condone it...I'm simply stating a possibility. The bottom line darlin is that you were born this way..a whole other discussion I know :rolleyes: and I feel that if she has that same thought process, it
would potentially make her more understanding to your secret.

As for the cheating..and yes my dear, it is cheating..I won't attack you for it, but I will say that if you looked at the big picture the way your wife would should she ever find out both secrets, which one would she be more upset over? The fact that you've been bisexual since the day you were born or that you were sleeping with men behind her back?

Best of luck to you
:2cents:

[crazy_cat_lady]

Okay I'm not agreeing with anyone here but I do see where the OP is coming from with coming out after marrage. Putting the cheating thing aside for the moment.

If I didn't think my spouse was open-minded enough to accept that part of me I would be completely terrified that they'd leave me after I said it no matter how long we'd been married. You all must admit it would be a huge bomb shell, one big enough to destroy a marrage, especially if I had been hiding it from them through ALL the married years. So that I can see.

Now whether cheating is the best way to go about it, well thats another story. It also depends on wether the OP has known he is BI before the marrage and felt it was best to ommit that from her, or discovered it During the marrage and was afraid of ruining the marrage at that point, so he kept it secret. :2cents:

[tenni]

Rissa
As I posted in another post, if I have misunderstood a previous post or it was not by you, I do apologize. What I recall in one thread that you stated that your husband was aware of your bisexuality soon after meeting you.(before you began to date) He said that it was acceptable to him for you to get involved with a woman too. You posted that you had chosen not to but remain in a monogomous relationship with him. Sorry if my memory was wonky. However, a biwoman living under the description that I gave is a very different situation that a biman whose wife would not tolerate his bisexuality or some of the reactions that I have read and heard. I've been wondering what it is about a marriage where a wife thinks that it is acceptable not to be sexual with their husband for years and make such statements if he gets involved with a man that will be a big mistake for their marriage. It seems screwed already...lol How can the posters here think that it is the biman who has screwed this up?

With regard to your experience with someone who was cheating, that is your experience and makes it understandable that you may hold the opinion that you have expressed. I have been cheated on by a woman that I was in love with. She hurt me due to her own short comings. That has not stopped me from developing my attitude towards bimen who are married and for whatever can not disclose to their wife. To each their own.

I may be wrong but one interesting thing about some discreet married bimen. They do tend to tell another guy that they are married and lay out the boundaries. Some do say that their wife would not understand. So, whoever you were involved with and they didn't tell you or their own partner, doesn't sound similar to bimen with other men. Their wives another issue.


Your whole post was irrelivent after your first paragraph where you mentioned that I choose not to enter a same sex relationship. I have and will also continue to have girlfriends. Since you have already proven that you don't know much about my marriage or anyone elses, your post means little to me.

By the way, cheaters ARE my business because I have dealt with people before where I was not aware that they were with someone else and that other person didn't know and before I knew it, I started having people threatening to come to MY home and beat me up for something I was an innocent part of.

[Annika L]

Annika
What are your suggestions for krrptyc's situation?

Should he "obey" his wife and get chemical castration to solve "his" problem?

Krrptyc was honest with his partner about his sexuality, and I applaud him for his courage and honesty. Since tenni asks, I will dissect krrptyc's partner's reaction (using *my* scalpel, not a generic), as it contains elements that I find both reasonable and unreasonable.

"Not thrilled" I can understand, as I think that people who would be thrilled by such news are rare. "Not thrilled to say the least" suggests to me that she was perhaps less understanding than she might have been, given that her partner just took a huge chance and trusted her with something deeply personal about himself. Still, we all do what we can as we can, and at least she was flexible with respect to toys. Two things are unclear from krrptyc's post, though: what did he actually tell his wife (did he say he was bisexual and therefore had sexual interest in men, or did he say he was bisexual and therefore wanted permission to have sex with men?); and what was her actual response with respect to toys (does she use them on him, or is he simply welcome to use them on himself?...like she'd have any business prohibiting that). Regardless, if she wasn't comfortable opening the relationship sexually, I can understand that...doing so definitely opens up the potential for instability in the relationship! I think it's unreasonable for someone to expect to be told "oh, you're bisexual? Well, then, if you want to, go and have sex with men!"...that's no different from a request coming from *anyone* to have sex outside the relationship...*in general*, people (men and women) are uncomfortable giving permission for their partner to have sex outside the relationship, and for some damned good reasons.

As to whose problem krrptyc's sexuality is, I would say that because he has been honest, it is truly *their* problem. It sounds to me like she is trying to shrug off her responsibility in dealing with this as a couple, and unfairly saying that krrptyc needs to come up with a solution himself that doesn't inconvenience her. That is just plain bad sense in a relationship, and she can't hope for a good outcome (and probably doesn't). I would suggest relationship counseling with someone who is experienced with LGBT issues...a *good* counselor should be able to get her exploring her own issues, as well as better understanding her partner's issues, and should also be able to get her to openly and honestly explore alternatives. At the very least, she may get over her loss of libido (which sounds to me like a defensive reaction to hearing about her partner's sexuality), and start working positively toward maintaining their relationship. I would not expect as a result of working with a therapist, that she will be ok with opening the relationship sexually, but I do think some kind of progress can be made...basically, she sounds stalled out, and needs someone to get her to try to work at this.

Her suggestion of chemical castration is patently ridiculous, and that is where I find her to be selfish to a level I would call immature...she clearly has issues with sexuality that are so deep that she needs professional help in dealing with them.

BUT, if she *refuses* to work with a therapist, and won't be intimate with you, and won't let you be intimate with others, and won't work in any way to move herself forward on this problem? Then she is basically showing the same level (albeit different kind) of disrespect to krrptyc that goob is showing to his partner. In that case, the logic starts to make more sense to me: she's not having sex with him, so if he contracts something, he won't be sharing it with her...she obviously is comfortable with a level of disrespect in the relationship, so she really can't complain if disrespect is directed toward her. But I would only go there if all else fails. And if he truly values honesty, he'll tell her that he's doing it. If that leads to divorce, in my estimation it will be *all* her doing (in that krrptyc will have done everything he can reasonably be expected to do to make things work)...and of course divorce is bad for marriage, silly...but is a loveless marriage that is devoid of respect preferable to a happy fulfilling life? Can it even truly be said to be a marriage?

Bottom line: krrptyc's situation is significantly different from goob's. He is in a position where family counselling can be useful, whereas goob is too scared to put himself in that position.

(And frankly, in goob's case, some damage is already done, as he's been cheating on his wife...as Fran says, he'll have to deal with both issues: her response to his sexuality, which *might* have been fine otherwise, *and* more importantly the fact that she rightly won't feel able to trust him.)

[rissababynta]

Ok Tenni, here's a question for you...

Many couples have their own different definitions of cheating, but they all have the same basic concept: Lying and deceit.

Why does a person decide to lie and remain dishonest to cheat? Usually because they know that they will get into deep shit for what they did or are doing, because they know that their spouse will not accept them (which in that case, a deeper look should be made into the marriage because you should NOT marry someone unless you know that both sides of the commitment will love and accept everything, good or bad, from the person that they supposedly love), or because they straight up know right from the start what they are doing is wrong.

So, why all of the attitude towards those of us who are saying that cheating is wrong and fucked up when cheaters themselves know that it is wrong, otherwise they would tell their spouses and be honest up front and no cheating would even occur?

It's like my mother always said...You know that you did something wrong if you try to cover it up.

Since when are bimen excused from wrong behavior simply because they are bi?

Last time I checked, being bisexual didn't mean that you had to have sex with everything you saw. By your logic, everyone should be cheating on everyone all the time because straight men will have their urges to have sex with women, gay men will always have their urges to have sex with other men.

People in the world are capable of not cheating on people, whether straight, gay, or bisexual. In the end, it doesn't matter who's got the worst end of the spectrum (since you think bimen do). It really doesn't matter what orientation you are, it doesn't matter what color you are, it doesn't matter what sex you are, whether you are tall or short or fat or skinny or have 3 tits and a donkey dick...when you make a commitment to another person in one way shape or form, you have a duty to show them respect and honesty and to not intentionally do something that could cause harm or hurt feelings.

And this is why cheaters know it is wrong, and which is why many others of us know it is wrong as well.

And now I'm done because I'm going to spend as much time with my husband, a bi man who has never cheated on me or anyone else in his life, before he leaves to go to Haiti. That's what loving couples do, hetero or otherwise...

[confused wife]

well here a nice one for everyone I'm a straight woman who's husband told her16 days ago that he is bi and in love with a man he has met through a chat line, i came to this site hoping it would help me understand as i love my husband and have been married for 14 years but now i think can i ever trust him . sorry if this is not where i should be but I'm unhappy confused and deeply hurt was hoping for help

[confused wife]

Oh and by the way im the wife married to the guy who has hidden it for 39 years and i will work through this rather than lose my soul mate .......

[MarieDelta]

I see quite a few guys going through tough times since coming out about being "bi" to their spouses.

I just think that is the biggest mistake a guy can ever make.
(just my personal opinion, please don't tar and feather me for having an opinion)

The chances of having the "perfect" spouse that has the mental capacity to take that revelation for what it is instead of taking it as a personal attack... well lets just assume you are looking for one in 40 billion, and the chances of that person being YOUR spouse are worse than your chances at playing the lottery.

Having that said, then what?????

THAT is the *big* issue that seems to be at hand... what *do* you do?

I have been married to my only wife for going on two decades.
I love her to death, would never think of hurting her.
We have a wonderful son about to start pre-school.
My wife and I run our own business.
I am not going do anything within my power to screw that up.
If I even THINK that any of my very limited opportunities at personal playtime might endanger what I have worked so hard to build over the last 20 years, it just won't happen.

What I feel sexually is beyond a "fetish" or a "fascination". I am truly "bi".
I like the feel/touch/smell/taste of men and women equally.


But I also know how to separate emotional feelings from sexual feelings.
For *me* sex is nothing more than an action. No one should equate the act of sex with emotion/devotion. It's the everyday things you do and experience in life that create emotions and devotion to a particular person.
You have emotional feelings for your brother/sister/grandparents/parents, etc but you don't have SEX with them to create those emotions and devotion (at least we HOPE not).

I can say sex is nothing more than an action/reaction due to the fact that animals do it every day and think nothing of it. "Oh, but we are better than animals.." you say... well yes, we are, animals are not capable of "enhancing" the sexual act as we humans have... toys... lubes... music... candle light...
We are better AT IT, but we are still doing *IT* ... an act.

So where has this brought us?
I don't look at my personal playtime as anything more than that... it's number one *PERSONAL* and number two it's just playtime... I am *NOT* looking to find another spouse. I don't LIKE the term "cheating" and don't for a minute consider what I do to be such. I am not going after sex because I am not getting any at home or because I cant stand my wife. I seek out personal playtime like guys seek out personal time to play golf ... it is an activity I really enjoy, and if played properly, and SAFELY, won't hurt anyone.

Am I in the closet? Yes, and quite frankly, I LIKE being in said closet.
Not many "gay" people (men or women) really *honestly* get what it is like to be bi.
At least this is my experience. They are completely one way or the other, as straight people are expected to be.
Pigeon-holed into (A or (B...

I think that "bi" is the last great unknown in sexuality.
I think it would actually be more difficult to be a bi-guy in this world and BE OPEN ABOUT IT.

I am a very careful planner. I select the location carefully. I select where I leave my vehicle carefully. I don't leave a paper trail or an electronic footprint.
It's called CYA.... cover your ass.

I could write a book on how NOT to get caught, but then EVERYONE would be able to get a copy, then those of us acting covertly would be screwed !

My point to this long-winded diatribe?
Don't get caught... (if you need pointers on that, feel free to contact me privately)
DON'T tell the wifey for cripes sake !
No good can come from that !
If you feel like you just HAVE to talk to SOMEONE to "get *it* of your chest" then do as I have done, join a safe anonymous place like this and TALK about it all you want !
(and hope to not get tarred and feathered for your personal beliefs)
:rolleyes:

I think it is up to the individual to decide whether (and when and where) to come out.

Each of us need to decide the level of openess and honesty for ourselves.

That being said I am open and out about who and what I am to everyone in my life. Get caught? Why lie in the first place?

I am Bi/Poly/Trans... I don't broadcast any of this, but I wont deny it either.

:flag4::bibounce::bipride:

<83

[darkeyes]

I wandered into the computer room this evening to find Kate in floods of tears. She had been reading this thread and it brought home to her the bad old days of my stupidity. Try as she might she could not write the words in reply as she wished. The words of the cheated. She was unable because of bad memories to think sufficiently clearly to say the words to express her pain.

Yes she does still have pain. We may have rebuilt our relationship, and I may have regained in her eyes an element of trust for the betrayal I inflicted upon her what now seems a lifetime ago. We have been through so much together, and we will go through so much more. Discovery of infidelity is a pain which never quite disappears. It is never forgotten, and will always rear its ugly head. It may not arise in recrimination for she has never thrown it in my face. Yet it does arise. It arises in the form of tears and gut wrenching sadness. Kate will have it all of her life. I have to live with that.. being the cause of it. She has long since forgiven me, yet I have never forgiven myself. The pain lessens, yet it is always likely to get up, dust itself off and bite your arse when you least expect it. I have the guilt not her. I did the deed and yet she pays for it every day of her wonderful, beautiful, gorgeous life. I pay with guilt..she pays with gnawing uncertainty and pain which I caused. No one else.

It matters not one jot whether your are bisexual, or gay, transgendered or straight. A lie is a lie, a deceit a deceit. I learned it the hard way, and have to live with what I have done... and I do.. not gladly exactly..but it is the price I pay for my own selfish stupidity. The price I pay is so much less than she.. she pays with memory which will never go... and that is so much more of a price to pay.. she is so much a better person than me. She bears her pain not with fortitude and the stiff upper lip.. she bears it because she loves me.. and because being the angel she is she forgives far too easily:) She has a kind and loving heart and even after what she has been through in her life, she offers it with gladness to one who really doesnt deserve it.

A great friend on site the other day said I was not mature only older. To a great extent I agree with him. I am childish in many ways. But experience has I think at least matured me in my relationship, love and devotion to my lovely Katherine.:)

I've said my peace on this thread..and will say no more. I just ask goob to reconsider how he feels and what he does. Its not very nice and may some day cause you so much anguish and loss. Worse, it may cause one who is blissfully unaware of what you do, who loves you more than you deserve, much greater anguish and pain than you will ever endure. Such my dear is the unfairness of cheating.

[12voltman59]

I don't know what to make of this thread--but I guess I have to make a comment on what the OP said---at least from what I understand of it.

I am going to second the comments others have made regarding fidelity to a partner---it does not matter what sort of relationship that a person is in--if as part of the agreement two people make to one another---if that agreement is that you will be "true to one another" and not "step out" to have a relationship with someone else-than that is what you should do--not because of any sort of sexual status you claim--but simply because it is because you hold to that "vow" of fidelity if you are at all a decent person---now--if as partners you either initially or at some point down the line modify your "agreements" to allow you to see other people--that is OK then.

I am not going to judge you if you feel its OK for you to "cheat" on your partner--that is your business-but if you were my partner and you cheated on me if it was our agreement that we would be faithful to each other--you would both anger and greatly dissappoint me--and needless to say--hurt me deeply.

Think about the effect your actions will have on your partner and take stock of what is more important to you---your own self-aggrandizement--or the feelings of your partner. What you chose says a great deal about you as a person.

[krrptyc]

[
QUOTE=Annika L;152297]Krrptyc was honest with his partner about his sexuality, and I applaud him for his courage and honesty. Since tenni asks, I will dissect krrptyc's partner's reaction (using *my* scalpel, not a generic), as it contains elements that I find both reasonable and unreasonable.


Annika,
You are obviously a thoughtful and compassionate person. Thank you for your thoughts. Even though you were not clear on how I approached my wife or what I asked of her, you gave positive suggestions and understanding without condemning me for the mere thought of cheating.

For the record, when I first told my wife of my bi urges I asked only to use some toys during sex. If we were still being intimate I would never even consider going outside our marriage behind her back.

[krrptyc]

what problem ??? the only problem I see the person having is that they feel that without sex, they can not survive.......

Your compassion and williness to understanding overwhelm me!

[tenni]

The issue for me is not whether it is right or wrong if a married guy decides not to tell his wife about his bisexuality and have same sex relations without her knowledge. Of course it is not the ideal solution. (forget right or wrong crap) The issue is that for some that it is their decision not to disclose and quietly have same sex relations outside of their marriage. In their mind it is the best solution considering all factors. If you don't like it fine. Keep it to yourself on this site unless asked for your advice. Accept that a lot of married bisexual men do not live the ideal situation or your situation. Yes, their partners are going to be upset whether they tell them now or later. If the partner never finds out...well the poor buggers kinda hope that is what happens...lol

It took quite awhile for someone to make a positive comment about krrptyc situation. Most ignored his situation and ranted their moral perspective. Thanks Annika...somehow I knew that you would have good insight.

Rissa asked me
So, why all of the attitude towards those of us who are saying that cheating is wrong and fucked up when cheaters themselves know that it is wrong, otherwise they would tell their spouses and be honest up front and no cheating would even occur?

If my above statement doesn't answer your question, my attitude is to oppose judgmental people who do not tolerate the different solutions for problems that you do not have. Cheating and remaining quiet about it may be some bisexuals' best solution. Your choice of words are condemning and judgmental. You don't like it when people assume things about you without knowing the specifics. Why say some bi guy is "wrong and fucked up" if it isn't your life?

[mikey3000]

Geez, this place is like a drug. I just CAN'T stay away. So sue me.

Now Wildwestgoob, I must say, what a set of kajones you have!! Good for you to state your case. And believe me, A few months ago I was you being tarred and feathered for standing up for a guy who thought like you did. So here we go again...

First off, after my tar and feathering, I found out through pages of PMs that you are not alone. For every one screaming, "honesty and faithfulness!!" at you, there are at least 20 who agree totally with you. Just many can't be bothered to get involved in these petty cat fights. Look at all the profiles seeking discretion. But just know, you are not alone.

And I understand your plight. I can't say that I agree with it 100&#37;, but, NO ONE understands the dynamics of your marriage like you do. Who gives a shit what the others think. If you think you are doing the right thing for you, so be it. It is your relationship, not everyone elses (though you did invite comments. LOL!!! Man did you get them). I doubt very much that everyone here is totally honest to their spouses about every single thing. And if they say they are, they are liars. So no worries. To each their own. Just know you are not alone.

[allbimyself]

The issue for me is not whether it is right or wrong if a married guy decides not to tell his wife about his bisexuality and have same sex relations without her knowledge. Of course it is not the ideal solution. (forget right or wrong crap) The issue is that for some that it is their decision not to disclose and quietly have same sex relations outside of their marriage. In their mind it is the best solution considering all factors. If you don't like it fine. Keep it to yourself on this site unless asked for your advice.1) wTF do you think you are to tell others to keep their opinions to themselves?

2) Read the fucking subject line of this thread. Goob wrote "opinions accepted." He asked for input. So your whole "unless asked for" is kinda pointless isn't it?


Accept that a lot of married bisexual men do not live the ideal situation or your situation. Yes, their partners are going to be upset whether they tell them now or later. If the partner never finds out...well the poor buggers kinda hope that is what happens...lolThe situation as goob described his isn't anything like krrptyc posted. All he has is simple fear of his wife. End of story. If he wants to fuck around because he's afraid of her, that's his business. But here's the deal, he basically told everyone to never tell. Go back and read his posts if you don't believe me. That's where he's wrong. HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYONE ELSE'S SITUATION EITHER! So WTF is he to tell them to lie? I know why he does that. He wants everyone else to be just as deceitful as he is. Shared guilt lessons his own.

[Long Duck Dong]

my anti cheating stance is based around one thing.... treat my partner with the same respect, love and honesty that I ask to be treated with

if I really give a shit about my partner, I will deliever...

but it appears to me that many people are different.... they have the approach that they will give as long as it suits them, and they can place their wants and needs over everything...and to them I do ask.... why get married... you honestly do not have the ability to commit to one person, but you are happy for them to be committed to you, and let them think that you are doing the same....

I would rather lose everything than lie to keep somebody. specially somebody I can not commit to or treat with the honesty and respect they are giving me

now I know we live in a world of * my rights * and often I think about the people that post about how not having sex is affecting them ...and how its cruel to deny those feelings and desires.... and ok I understand what thats like...... but I also understand how its easy for a person to be selfish and think of themselves first.... then play the victim when it costs them everything

we hear about victims of sexual assaults and abuse.... they are on the recieving end of something they never wanted nor desired..... the opposite side of the coin, is the victim of a cheating partner.....they never desired to be torn apart by the one person they should have been able to trust... their own partner.....

I really have to ask.... how hard was it for a number of the cheaters to stand at the altar and say their vows with a straight face, knowing that they were telling lies

[tenni]

"wTF do you think you are to tell others to keep their opinions to themselves?"

Well, I can be judgmental too...lol

Is this a place for only the "good bisexuals"? ( The ones that follow a prescribed manner of behaviour)

or
Is it a space that is open and welcoming: a place where all bisexuals may express their views without being condemned as being "wrong" ?..tarred and feathered as the OP wrote.

[allbimyself]

"wTF do you think you are to tell others to keep their opinions to themselves?"

Well, I can be judgmental too...lol

Is this a place for only the "good bisexuals"? ( The ones that follow a prescribed manner of behaviour)

or
Is it a space that is open and welcoming: a place where all bisexuals may express their views without being condemned as being "wrong" ?..tarred and feathered as the OP wrote.Obviously you don't understand debate. If you express an opinion you can expect others to express theirs. I don't understand how you feel that the first person to express an opinion shouldn't have that opinion challenged. What BS.

In the post you just quoted me from, I already explained that the OP specifically asked for other opinions. I notice you didn't reply to that but then in the same breath whine that people disagreed with him, as if that's somehow being mean. get over it.

[Long Duck Dong]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong
what problem ??? the only problem I see the person having is that they feel that without sex, they can not survive.......[/QUOTE]


Your compassion and williness to understanding overwhelm me!

my compassion and willingness to understand ????

I did a 7 year stretch with a partner that told me that she was not interested in sex.... meanwhile, she fucked 14 different guys and got pregnant, expected me to pay all the bills and provide for her so she did not have to work. do 14 hour days 7 days a work to make money then come home and cook for her.... etc etc etc

that is who I am in a relationship, I am bisexual, and lived 98% of a 7 year relationship celibate, rather than treat a partner like shit, for the sake of sex.... and yeah that was knowing that my own partner was treating me like shit

yes, I have sexual urges and desires, yes I now have a partner in the usa that I may not see for 2-3 years..... but yes.... there is no way in hell that i would go and sleep with another person with or without their consent..... its called love, honest and respect.... its bloody hell going... and there are times that I question my own sanity....but if i fail to continue to be celibate and faith to a partner that has no way of knowing if I am sleeping around or not..... then I have not only failed my partner, but I have also failed to be honest with myself and the people around me that look at me as a person that would move heaven and earth rather than lie and cheat for my own gain

its a personal thing with me, its a choice I made for me.... and i was single with I made the decision to live my life a certain way...... and part of the reasoning behind that is I had to be sure that If I was gonna say wedding vows, that I have to be 120% sure I could honour them for better or worse....

as for my original remark, its true... blunt, cold and honesty true......
if a person is cheating and sleeping with other people..... how can it not be about sex.... when the bulk of it is sex related..... and bs excuses like being bisexual are used.....

how often to heterosexual people use the excuse that they cheated cos they have heterosexual urges.... they don't.... they often admit its about sex and sexual attraction.... but bisexuals will hide it and say its bisexual urges..... when its the urge to have sex

[mikey3000]

I really have to ask.... how hard was it for a number of the cheaters to stand at the altar and say their vows with a straight face, knowing that they were telling lies How many times have you been married? Have you ever taken a vow only to have it blow up in your face too for one reason or another? People change. Shit happens. Deal with it or move on. We are all adults living in an imperfect world. You of all people, with your professonal background should realize that. Tell me though, how could you have been an impartial councellor?

[Long Duck Dong]

How mant times have you been married? Have you ever taken a vow only to have it blow up in your face too for one reason or another? People change. Shit happens. Deal with it or move on. We are all adults living in an imperfect world. You of all people, with your professonal background should realize that. Tell me though, how could you have been an impartial councellor?

I have never married, I have been engaged once..... but regardless, commitment to a partner is commitment to a partner regardless of status

and I am allowed a personal point of view and a professional point of view... I have posted a personal point of view

if it was professional ( under NZ guidelines ) I would not be allowed to address the persons sexuality or sexual inclinations as that would be considered to be judgemental.
I would not be allowed to address aspects of the marriage without the direct consent of BOTH partners, and if consent was not given by one partner, then the marriage and issues in the marriage are not allowed to be discussed...
I would not be allowed to address any aspects of the infidelity or marriage in a negative light or express any form of disapproval, nor indication that either person is wrong or responsible for any aspect of the marriage, leading to cheating
I would not be allowed to imply that cheating or infidelity is wrong or unacceptable but indicate that the person should continue to be unfaithful but look at considering their partners emotional and mental states of mind without implying there is a issue there
I would not be allowed to request any info beyond what the client is happy to share, that may shed light on the issue....

and if requested by the client, I would have to aid, help and assist with any info I can, that would ensure that they could continue to commit infidelity...and at no point could I give any indication to the persons partner that I have any knowledge of infidelity as that would be a breach of the privacy act and the persons human rights.......

now mikey.... the next time you wanna throw the professional shit in my face.... remember this... I am posting in a forum, as a person, sharing personal experiences, in my own time and not in a professional capability... and there is no way in fuck, I will condone cheating or lies and dishonesty....

that is the reason I stopped doing counseling work..... I will not sit back and make money out of assisting others to act like animals

[mikey3000]

About 6 months ago, I promised her that she could hug me, caress me, kiss me, or whatever and I would not intiate sex. However, I also told her that I needed sex and wanted to find a buddy. No love, no women, just someone to trade oral pleasures with. She said NO! She said it would have a bad affect on our marriage. She suggested I look into chemical castration.


Dude, are you for real? Is she for real!!! No!!! Go fuck around. If she has that much disregard for your well being, too bad. Go get your buddy. End of story.

Sex is a biological function that serves many physical and emotional benefits, not just reproduction. If someone is Holier than thou enough to abstain for what ever personal reasons, than goodie for them. Give the dude a cookie. But also get realistic.

And for Chrissake, everybody get off their high horses already. Give your opinion in an ADULT matter. No name calling, No insults.

[tenni]

I did respond not only to the OP but 8 other posts ahead of my first post. Check post #9. I supported the OP in my own way.

I notice that you were very polite (?) in your #4 post. (using the word "bullshit")....Discussion is more appropriate when expressing opinions where you are respectful of others (rather than wanting to tar and feather the "bad" guys) ...Debate assumes that one is right and the other person is wrong. It is confrontational and not being open and accepting of other ways bisexuals make choices. Using the word "bullshit" is an emotional response and more a sign of an argument or fight.


Obviously you don't understand debate. If you express an opinion you can expect others to express theirs. I don't understand how you feel that the first person to express an opinion shouldn't have that opinion challenged. What BS.

In the post you just quoted me from, I already explained that the OP specifically asked for other opinions. I notice you didn't reply to that but then in the same breath whine that people disagreed with him, as if that's somehow being mean. get over it.

[mikey3000]

now mikey.... the next time you wanna throw the professional shit in my face.... remember this... I am posting in a forum, as a person, sharing personal experiences, in my own time and not in a professional capability... and there is no way in fuck, I will condone cheating or lies and dishonesty....

that is the reason I stopped doing counseling work..... I will not sit back and make money out of assisting others to act like animals

Dude, I'm not "throwing professional shit" in your face. You are the one who has constantly referred to your professional back ground time and time again, as to give creedence to your postings of your personal beliefs. And I found it rather amusing that you are confident enough to antagonize people who chooses to stand at an altar and make a vow, when you don't have the slightest clue what it's like to do so, let alone be in a functioning long term, in person relationship for any serious legnth of time (your admission, not my nastiness). The gall just amazes me. If you chose to stay in a disfunctional relationship for ANY legnth of time, then that is your doing. And not something to wear as a badge of honour and that others should aspire to. Obviously you have your issues, Goob has his issues and I have mine. But I accept how everyone chooses to deal with their own business. I may not agree with them, but they have the right to choose too. Remember LDD, he has rights to his personal privacy as well. It is a changing world and privacy is all the rage now.

[tenni]

LDD
This is about the third time that I have read you referring to your "professional" status. From sentences here you seem to be giving the impression that you were some type of "professional" counsellor who is licensed.

What type of professional counselling do you do?

-a gender identity counsellor?

What is the type or name of your professional licensing body?



I understand if you are not comfortable disclosing the above information. Forgive me for being invasive if that is how you see it.

[Long Duck Dong]

Dude, I'm not "throwing professional shit" in your face. You are the one who has constantly referred to your professional back ground time and time again, as to give creedence to your postings of your personal beliefs. And I found it rather amusing that you are confident enough to antagonize people who chooses to stand at an altar and make a vow, when you don't have the slightest clue what it's like to do so, let alone be in a functioning long term, in person relationship for any serious legnth of time (your admission, not my nastiness). The gall just amazes me. If you chose to stay in a disfunctional relationship for ANY legnth of time, then that is your doing. And not something to wear as a badge of honour and that others should aspire to. Obviously you have your issues, Goob has his issues and I have mine. But I accept how everyone chooses to deal with their own business. I may not agree with them, but they have the right to choose too. Remember LDD, he has rights to his personal privacy as well. It is a changing world and privacy is all the rage now.

you clearly missed the point.....

I have not been married as I take my wedding vows very seriously.... if I can not honour them, I will not get married.... its a personal thing.... if I am gonna say them then by hell I need to know that I mean them to the last letter....not just when it suits me to follow them

I chose to stay in a nasty relationship as I needed to prove to myself, when the going got tough, I would not take the easy way out..... and for 7 years I stayed in a nasty relationship, took the bs and the abuse, and continued to stand strong to the words * I love you unconditionally * and * I will never turn you away *.... the relationship ended years ago... and my ex still comes to me for help adn advice, as I honor what I said * I will never turn you away *
the same attitude I have to wedding vows and relationships... I take them seriously, very seriously.... not just when it suits me...and I have proven that just cos I am bisexual, doesn't mean I can not survive without sex....

I use the professional background as a way of showing that I have dealt with far more excuses, lies and bs in regards to relationships to the average person..... and most of my opinions are based around many many peoples remarks, not one or two....so I do have a good deal of knowledge and experience on which I base my opinions.....

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD
This is about the third time that I have read you referring to your "professional" status. From sentences here you seem to be giving the impression that you were some type of "professional" counsellor who is licensed.

What type of professional counselling do you do?

-a gender identity counsellor?

What is the type or name of your professional licensing body?



I understand if you are not comfortable disclosing the above information. Forgive me for being invasive if that is how you see it.


now there is certified and qualified and specialised

certified means you have certs of courses, that can be entry level or advanced level

qualified, means you have gone to uni ( university / polytechnic and you have specialist field qualification such as psychologist, psychiatrist ( advanced and specialized fields )

specialized mean you have trained completely on one or more fields...such as sexual abuse and that means that you are a recognized and qualified
expert in said fields ( take that be mean something like specialty... IE a specialized LGBT counsellor who deals exclusively with people that are gay and transgender, but they will not deal with bi or les people )


full cert level counsellors need 7 years to gain full cert level counsellor

we can apply and work towards admittance into one of the governing bodies such as NZAC, the New Zealand Association of Counsellors, something I refuse to do on the grounds of discrimination and biased.....

people like me are the ground level counsellors, we are the ones that do not cost $160-$500 a hour.... we are the ones that do the dirty work.... often with support groups, charity groups etc etc and often for free cos most of the services that need the counsellors, have no funding for consellors

as for me, I have certs in psychology / psychotherapy/ mental health and disorders counselling( thats a broad range ground level community college level cert and takes 3 years to get them all )

I have sexuality, sexual issues, relationships / marriage, gender and gender Identity training and community liaisons, depression / suicide, youth and youth issues, elderly and elderly issues certs

I have certs in hypnotherapy / natural therapy ( that is a type of * homegrown cert, you are allowed to do them but not allowed to refer to yourself as a counselor after doing them )
I have basic and advance level certs in race relationships / cultural relations ( must have now and even then if you say the wrong thing you are labelled as a racist )

there is more details and stuff but since I am retired and have been for a while, I am not gonna list them,... partly cos I can not be stuffed pulling out all the paperwork.... and two, I fail to see why I need to justify my right to have a personal opinion in a website, using past experience and knowledge that has come from work in many feilds and not using identifying or revealing details

essentially, I am a trained freelance, non specialised counsellor / therapy that is allowed to work in any field that I have certs in, without training or field experience, I have completed will the requirements to enter some of the advanced / specialized feilds but I would become subject to restrictions that would not allow me to work across the fields or counsel in some areas..
I also have worked in areas that there are no certs for, as in NZ< they do not acknowledge that it is a area that needs addressing....
hence my work as a sexuality and sexual issues counsellor covered all aspects of LGBT/straight issues... but any work dealing with trans people, was regarded as psych work..... which fucked me off.... cos they are people, not freaks

[diamond_tether]

For us - it's looking at a wall of text rationalizing lying to one's partner.

We can't change how we feel about it and as much as we sympathize for those who may be in tough situations - it's just not fair to us to put a partner at risk without their knowledge, even if it's without their consent.

Unless you're doing all the kissing, sucking and touching with barriers - there's a health risk. While moving behind a partner's back intentionally and continually puts them at emotional risk, because they've invested a lot of time and trust in a relationship construct that isn't being reciprocated.

Messing with heads and hearts like that just doesn't feel right to us. We work in a completely different way. We believe that a 'partner' should at least get the opportunity to respond to a situation as they will.

[Jade Pecker]

Listen, it is important to be out to your gf/wife/boyfriend/husband. This is the only way that any relationship is going to work. As a rule, I only date bi's, unless said straight/gay person knows about me, and we lay out the ground rules. Many of the gay and bi men I meet online are scared...of what I don't know. There is one gay man I met on Yahoo whom I like and respect very much, and he lives nearby....but he is living with HIV. I do, however, let him cut my hair.....he has a salon.
:flag4:

[mikey3000]

And has anyone though that maybe the spouses don't want to know? Maybe they're very happy with how things are as it is, but only react to save face in view of the situation? I wonder how many spouses of cheating partners asked, "why did you tell me? Now I have to divorce you because you went public."

I personally know three couples that this has occurred to. Does anyone else?

[TwylaTwobits]

I read this thread and if I understand the jist of it correctly...Mikey you were honest with your wife and she reacted badly.

Now maybe this was a knee jerk reaction to hearing something she had suspected but had no way of proving. I know LDD told me he was bi long before we did more than flirt. He told me by sending me to this website and telling me to look up Long Duck Dong.

I can tell you now, even though I'm straight. Cheating has no sexual lines other than the betrayal of own's partner. Rather with the same sex or the opposite sex. I was married for 11 years to someone who cheated on me. Just once or so he says and I was a fool and fought to keep him. Even had another child afterwards. He treated me like nothing but another cunt to use. I stayed because of the kids, because I was raised to believe in marriage and having it last. When I finally got the guts to file for divorce, I was begged. One of his begs was "six years ago I gave you my heart and soul".... I just looked at him and said "we've been married for 10, were the other four practice?" He was probably a mistake all around but once I got over the fear of being alone, I realized I wasn't alone at all. I was extremely lucky and met LDD. Someone who made parts of me that I never knew existed come alive with just the sound of his voice.

It's hell for us. Going to live with him for the three months of my visa was absolutely amazing, we slipped into life together like an old married couple. Leaving killed me. And to this day I still say if I had known how hard my leaving was going to be on both of us I'd have waited until I could stay permanently.

I sit here trusting my partner, because I have seen the truth of him. His ex does still come to him for help and he helps her. I have personally asked why the fuck he does and get the same response he gives here. He gave his word.

I know the hell she put him through and I know she didn't have the guts to say jack shit to me when I was in NZ but loves to run her mouth now. But I am going to get back to New Zealand, might take a couple years, but I will be back there and then if there is an issue LDD and I will deal with it together.

But I trust him, I know he won't cheat on me. He actually gave my permission to cheat on him and I told him unless George Clooney knocks on my door, no way. He said if GC knocks on my door I better enjoy myself and take pics :)

I have been in relationships and a marriage where I have been cheated on, and it is no different being cheated on by a mere boyfriend than a husband. It just sucks. Now I have someone, someone who makes life worth living, makes getting out of bed worth something more than going through the motions of the day. I would rather be his partner and deal with the loneliness and the cravings and wanting his hard cock deep inside me than ever look to another. But that's just me....honesty and loyalty apparently aren't for everyone and sometimes cause more trouble than you can imagine. But honesty and loyalty are two things I must have in a relationship, if not...it's just fucking.

So Mikey, I am sorry that your wife reacted badly. I really think you and her should seek counseling and work on things. You have posted often of her and your deep feelings for her and I pray the Goddess will ease your path.

[mikey3000]

Twyla, all I can say is, WOW! I'm totally shocked.

Your casual use of the "c" word completely threw me, and I'm speechless. I'll have to gather my thoughts again to carry on. :eek: LOL! I have never heard a lady use that word before. Again, WOW!

[allbimyself]

I did respond not only to the OP but 8 other posts ahead of my first post. Check post #9. I supported the OP in my own way.

I notice that you were very polite (?) in your #4 post. (using the word "bullshit")....Discussion is more appropriate when expressing opinions where you are respectful of others (rather than wanting to tar and feather the "bad" guys) ...Debate assumes that one is right and the other person is wrong. It is confrontational and not being open and accepting of other ways bisexuals make choices. Using the word "bullshit" is an emotional response and more a sign of an argument or fight.

Oh please. If someone says their opinion is "all non-heterosexuals should be rounded up and shot" that is bullshit and I'll call it as such and no I will not be respectful of that opinion or the person that states it. The OP stated that no good could come from telling a spouse about one's sexuality. That's so obviously wrong it isn't even worth debating. There have been just as many stories from bisexuals who have come out to their spouse and ended up with a stronger relationship as there are those that had a bad experience. Hence that statement is bullshit.

But then, no one wants their pet beliefs questioned, especially when they themselves have doubts.

If someone wants to cheat, that's between them, their partner and their lover(s). I don't give a flying crap unless I'm one of them or one of them is someone I care about. However, stating an opinion that no one should ever come out to their spouse and just do whatever they want as a prudent policy is going to get challenged every time. If you don't like your opinions challenged, keep them to yourself.

No reasonable arguments have been but forth in support of the OP's contention. When challenged, he and his supports whine that they are being unfairly attacked. Again, bullshit. The opinion is attacked. Saying an opinion is bullshit is not an attack on the person holding the opinion but an attack of the opinion itself.

And don't hold up krrptyc's situation as an example in support of the OP's opinion. krrtptyc came out to his wife. Her reaction was unreasonable and their situation has nothing to do with his sexuality.

Now, that said, you say we shouldn't judge. Perhaps. However, when a bisexual claims that he/she has a right to cheat because of their sexuality, and actively campaigns to tell other bisexuals that they should lie and cheat, I do believe I have a right to judge. Why? Because that person is representing bisexuals, me in other words. Using bisexuality as an excuse to be polygamous and to lie is misrepresenting to non-bisexuals what being bisexual means and affects ALL bisexuals. If the OP wants to cheat, again that's his business. When he uses his bisexuality as an excuse for his behavior, it becomes the business of every bisexual.

[TwylaTwobits]

Twyla, all I can say is, WOW! I'm totally shocked.

Your casual use of the "c" word completely threw me, and I'm speechless. I'll have to gather my thoughts again to carry on. :eek: LOL! I have never heard a lady use that word before. Again, WOW!

Which "c" word would that be, Mikey? I used a few of em. Lady or not when it comes to describing how someone feels after being used, that is perfect.

[tenni]

"If someone wants to cheat, that's between them, their partner and their lover(s). I don't give a flying crap unless I'm one of them or one of them is someone I care about."

Allbimyself
You should stop there...lol

daimond_tether
What you write is all true except for
"For us - it's looking at a wall of text rationalizing lying to one's partner. "
It is not rationalizing. It is the truth. The fact is that some married bi guys decide to have sex and keep it to themselves. No rationalization, No condemning will change that fact. I don't know but I suspect that more married men decide to have same sex and keep it to themselves. That is a lot of guys on this site that others are condemning and not permitting them to talk without them having to cover their balls...lol

Why not permit these bisexual men to discuss amongst themselves or those willing to support their path without judgment to talk. Permit them to post without those that know better coming here to tell them ..wrong..yada yada?


Perhaps one of the flaws of this site is that there are the bi-straight partners and bi partners shouting over the bisexual individual? (just a thought)

It may require a site where only the bisexual is permitted.

[Rudy75]

"Centipede"?

(Better let Joe know.)

[allbimyself]

"If someone wants to cheat, that's between them, their partner and their lover(s). I don't give a flying crap unless I'm one of them or one of them is someone I care about."

Allbimyself
You should stop there...lol


Why? Because you don't know how to reply to what I said after?

[tenni]

I don't care about what else you wrote. It is none of my business nor your business what these guys do unless the other factors that you mentioned. How does it help these guys to act this way?

We are individuals first. Each of us regardless of our sexuality has factors and influences in our lives that makes us make decisions. No ...one size fits all. We are a wide range of sexuality and a wide range of how we chose to live our life. To support one way over another seems strange to me. So, you're afraid what the world thinks of us? Just tell them what I wrote above and say I'm not like section 4b of bisexual men. ;)

[Long Duck Dong]

"If someone wants to cheat, that's between them, their partner and their lover(s). I don't give a flying crap unless I'm one of them or one of them is someone I care about."

Allbimyself
You should stop there...lol

daimond_tether
What you write is all true except for
"For us - it's looking at a wall of text rationalizing lying to one's partner. "[/COLOR]
It is not rationalizing. It is the truth. The fact is that some married bi guys decide to have sex and keep it to themselves. No rationalization, No condemning will change that fact. I don't know but I suspect that more married men decide to have same sex and keep it to themselves. That is a lot of guys on this site that others are condemning and not permitting them to talk without them having to cover their balls...lol

Why not permit these bisexual men to discuss amongst themselves or those willing to support their path without judgment to talk. Permit them to post without those that know better coming here to tell them ..wrong..yada yada?


Perhaps one of the flaws of this site is that there are the bi-straight partners and bi partners shouting over the bisexual individual? (just a thought)

It may require a site where only the bisexual is permitted.


yeah tenni I agree..... they should be able to do that...... the simple option is that they go find a site or create a site for people that are happy to cheat on their partners.....where people that believe in honesty and respect, are not welcome.....

that covers not just bisexuals, but a person of any sexuality that feels that cheating on their partner is acceptable...... as cheating is not a bisexual exclusive trait.......

the simple fact of the matter is that there are people that are cheating and posting in a site where others do have a sense of honor and respect.....and good on them for posting.... that way any random person will see that * omg, not all bisexuals / other sexuality * people support cheating / infidelity, they are also vocal about respect for the partner, maybe not all people in the site are looking for ways to cheat and maybe not all bisexuals are fuck freaks..... *


to me its not a case of what the world thinks of me or us..... its case of having a partner able to join the site and realise that having a bisexual partner, doesn't mean sharing the bed with random strangers, or wondering where their partner is all the time......
I wonder how many partners have joined the site and read the threads and thought * omg, maybe I have misunderstood what it means for my partner to be bisexual.... maybe its worth sitting and talking with them and working to save the relationship or marriage..... maybe, my partner is not just saying they wanna sleep with other people and have me in the bed too *

what the world does think of us, is fueled by the impressions you want to give the world tenni...... and if random partners log into bisexual.com and see threads, supporting and encouraging cheating and infidelity.... they will tar the rest of us with the same brush..... and thats something that most of us do not want to be seen and judged.... we already get enough of that BS image as it is, without helping to prove it

[jamiehue]

To me it has been always a mystery as to why cheaters partners dont know cause i think they do like its so dam obvious.In my past ive asked does your wife know? oh no....you got to be kidding shes hiding something too!

[Wolf_Sr]

According Webster Dictionary, cheat (Verb):

1. Deprive somebody of something by deceit.
2. Defeat someone in an expectation through trickery or deceit.
3. Engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud; "Who's chiseling on the side?".
4. Be sexually unfaithful to one's partner in marriage; "She cheats on her husband"; "Might her husband be wandering?".

Cheat is bad, always, no doubt. Who doesn't cheat than can cast the stone, or 1 to 3 is less important than 4?

Hugs

[tenni]

The OP questions whether disclosing to your partner is the wisest approach when faced with the reality that not all spouses /partners will accept bisexuality.

The point of this thread is that it is for those who decide not to disclose and have considered it the best approach.

The point of this thread is about the segment of bisexual men who have emotional attachment to women but only physical attraction to men.

If you are such a bisexual man and have something to say about how to deal with your situation, please post it. If not, would you be polite and remain silent.

Let these bisexuals speak.

[indio]

I concur with your arguments. My wife and I are both bi-sexual, I met her while she was living in a lesbian relationship. I struggled with telling her until after we started dating- but decided to get it out into the open. It both fascinated and aroused us considerably. But telling the truth was the best thing because we both believe that cheating is wrong--period.
It took me a long time to accept my own bisexuality and not confuse it with the belief that bisexuals were more promiscuous than gays or straights. And we made the biggest and most important step by making an agreement that we would not ever have sex with anyone else unless I or my wife was also present and participating in the sex with the other person(s) to whatever extent we wished. This got us over the biggest trust hurdle.
This seemed to liberate us quite a bit in that when we are out with other people , or watchin films etc. my wife is quite direct when she describes her lustful attraction to other women and men.

We have had threesomes together both MMF and FFM and with some disappointment and some success-- you still have to pick the right partner for a threesome. Although my wife has fucked another woman and a man in my presence, and I fucked a woman. I have not fucked a man during the threesome. She is supportive of it and wants to watch me. We also did double penetration with both the man and woman.

What does the above have to do with the present forum topic? Alot, actually. If you don,t disclose your bisexuality, eventually you will act on it and cheat on your spouse. If your partner, whether male or female is not "GGG" ( good , giving and game,to quote Dan Savage) you will be living a miserable life. You need to be intimate with your spouse or partner and when you are living a lie, and your spouse or partner is unwilling to b GGG, then you really have only one choice to make if you believe in integrity being an important part of your relationship. Get him or her to deal with your sexuality in all its manifestations. Get them to try it and if it doesn't work, then try therapy or resolve to act it out only within the relationship with fantasy a strapon and lots of lube...

I




I think that the OP is discussing one type of bisexual males who do not connect same sex activity with emotional attachment. Other types of bisexuals may not apply to what else I'm going to write. Many males tend to report being able to do this whether with men or women partners.

I think that we need to acknowledge that different approaches work for different bisexuals.

I'm not going to write that I am so tired about reading how not disclosing to your wife is wrong. It really should only be said that the bisexual knows that disclosing to his/her partner was the best thing for them to do. I noticed in threads discussing such things back in 2005-06 that the majority view was completely opposite to many who post on this site now? In other words, the common view was not to disclose to your partner back then. (at least the thread that I came across..can not remember its name now though....so shoot me ;)

It would be interesting if a study was done on this issue but I don't think that it has been done. From what I read and have heard:
1/ If you disclose to your husband or wife before you marry, it seems to be the best approach
2/ If you do not disclose before marriage regardless of the reason:
a/ women find it easier to disclose to their husbands than husbands find to disclose to their wives.
b/ husbands are more accepting of their wive's bisexuality than wives are accepting of their husbands' bisexuality from self disclosure on this site

That having been written, it is unpredictable whether disclosing after marriage makes it better for the husband or the marriage itself. We only have the word of some who say that it does.

Therefore, those who make broad sweeping statements about husbands disclosing to their wives might be better to make it only applicable to themselves. Ranting about cheating is imposing your own moral value decision on to others (acting as a god). You might as well go and say that being bisexual is wrong. There are however a lot of negatives when a man who is married decides to not disclose and continue to have sex with other men without telling their wives. It may be unfair as the wife doesn't get to decide if she wants to remain in the marriage.

Keeping emotion out of a discussion of this nature is difficult but perhaps best.

I think that those who are attempting to impose moral values on other bisexuals are not really helpful in keeping this forum open and accepting. They are condemning and silencing bisexuals who are struggling with their sexuality. (mostly married men it seems)

I commend the OP for having the confidence to state his perspective and knowing that some may be against him for doing so.

Plato might have an interesting discussion with you Cat about what is "truth" :)

[rissababynta]

The OP questions whether disclosing to your partner is the wisest approach when faced with the reality that not all spouses /partners will accept bisexuality.

The point of this thread is that it is for those who decide not to disclose and have considered it the best approach.

The point of this thread is about the segment of bisexual men who have emotional attachment to women but only physical attraction to men.

If you are such a bisexual man and have something to say about how to deal with your situation, please post it. If not, would you be polite and remain silent.

Let these bisexuals speak.

Tenni, this is a public forum AND he said opinions were accepted. This is not the first time that you have taken it upon yourself to be the opinion nazi in this thread, so perhaps you should think twice before you start speaking about who is being polite and who is not...

By the way, he didn't question, he straight out said that cheating is the way to go which is a lot of the problem that people are having. If you want to take a look back at the posts people have made, they said that they don't agree with cheating, but they REALLY don't like the fact that he is condoning it.

[Poulpe]

I've been lurking on this site for a little while, but this thread made me want to join in the discussion.

On the issue of cheating, setting aside the emotional issue for now, if you're sexual active with your spouse, they really have the right to know the risks their taking when they sleep with you. Even if you're using a condom and using it correctly, there's a miniscule chance that you're going to get a fluidborne STD and a bigger chance to get a skin-to-skin STD like herpes, crabs, scabies or syphilis. If your spouse doesn't know what you're up to, you're essential taking their right to decide how much of a health risk they want to expose themselves to.

On the main point, that it's never a good idea to come out to your wife, I think that's a decision the individual needs to make since they know their situation better than any anonymous person on the internet. I don't see an ethical problem with keeping that side of yourself, given that you remain faithful to whatever arrangement that you have worked out with them.

That being said, coming out to my wife was one of the best things I ever did. I was married for seven years without telling my wife about my sexuality, then one day it hit me how sad it would be that we'd live together until we were old and grey and there might always be such a big secret between us. It used to be my little secret, but know it's our little secret - and our relationship is better than ever.

Does that mean everyone should come out to their wife? Probably not. In this homophobic/biphobic world, there's a good chance most people would be risking their marriages. If you'd rather keep the secret than risk your marriage, that's your choice to make.

[Annika L]

I've been lurking on this site for a little while, but this thread made me want to join in the discussion.

On the issue of cheating, setting aside the emotional issue for now, if you're sexual active with your spouse, they really have the right to know the risks their taking when they sleep with you. Even if you're using a condom and using it correctly, there's a miniscule chance that you're going to get a fluidborne STD and a bigger chance to get a skin-to-skin STD like herpes, crabs, scabies or syphilis. If your spouse doesn't know what you're up to, you're essential taking their right to decide how much of a health risk they want to expose themselves to.

On the main point, that it's never a good idea to come out to your wife, I think that's a decision the individual needs to make since they know their situation better than any anonymous person on the internet. I don't see an ethical problem with keeping that side of yourself, given that you remain faithful to whatever arrangement that you have worked out with them.

That being said, coming out to my wife was one of the best things I ever did. I was married for seven years without telling my wife about my sexuality, then one day it hit me how sad it would be that we'd live together until we were old and grey and there might always be such a big secret between us. It used to be my little secret, but know it's our little secret - and our relationship is better than ever.

Does that mean everyone should come out to their wife? Probably not. In this homophobic/biphobic world, there's a good chance most people would be risking their marriages. If you'd rather keep the secret than risk your marriage, that's your choice to make.

Welcome to the site!

Despite disagreeing pretty strongly with goob, I do appreciate the conversation he has started. Especially if it gets some people to speak up for the first time, then it is valuable!

I for one appreciate you sharing your perspective, and am glad you felt comfortable joining the discussion...I hope this opens the door for you to join in more often!

[krrptyc]

I chose to stay in a nasty relationship as I needed to prove to myself, when the going got tough, I would not take the easy way out..... and for 7 years I stayed in a nasty relationship, took the bs and the abuse, and continued to stand strong to the words * I love you unconditionally * and * I will never turn you away *.... the relationship ended years ago... and my ex still comes to me for help adn advice, as I honor what I said * I will never turn you away *
the same attitude I have to wedding vows and relationships... I take them seriously, very seriously.... not just when it suits me...and I have proven that just cos I am bisexual, doesn't mean I can not survive without sex..

Now I understand the LDD’s “what problem?” response to my situation. If I understand his standards; because my wife refused my request, I should now just accept an affectionless and sexless marriage and should just suck it up, that may not be the appropriate term,:bigrin: but you know what I mean. After all, I will not die because I am not having sex. I readily agree that I won’t die without sex but the difference between LDD and me is, nowhere in my wedding vows did I say “I will love you unconditionally even if you to take advantage of me, are unfaithful, and ignore my needs.” No offence intended LDD, but you seem to hold everyone but your partner (present and past) to high standards. You seem downright disgusted with anyone who cheats, except those who cheat on you. IMHO, unconditional love should be given to children and dogs, because children deserve it and dogs will return it.

Craving human contact and affection is hardwired into our genes. Living together without affection or intimacy is not a marriage, it’s a roommate situation. It just so happens that I am in love with my present roommate and it is killing me that my only choices seem to be an affectionless and sexless marriage, divorce, or cheating. I plan to insist on counseling for us and will work hard towards a positive outcome. I certainly prefer a return to an intimate relationship with my wife than an occasional BJ with a buddy. I will be a very happy man if we can work this out. But if it doesn’t and we stay together, I will again have to wonder if I am happy because my needs are met and she is happy because I leave her alone, who is being cheated.

[Annika L]

Now I understand the LDD’s “what problem?” response to my situation. If I understand his standards; because my wife refused my request, I should now just accept an affectionless and sexless marriage and should just suck it up, that may not be the appropriate term,:bigrin: but you know what I mean. After all, I will not die because I am not having sex. I readily agree that I won’t die without sex but the difference between LDD and me is, nowhere in my wedding vows did I say “I will love you unconditionally even if you to take advantage of me, are unfaithful, and ignore my needs.” No offence intended LDD, but you seem to hold everyone but your partner (present and past) to high standards. You seem downright disgusted with anyone who cheats, except those who cheat on you. IMHO, unconditional love should be given to children and dogs, because children deserve it and dogs will return it.

Craving human contact and affection is hardwired into our genes. Living together without affection or intimacy is not a marriage, it’s a roommate situation. It just so happens that I am in love with my present roommate and it is killing me that my only choices seem to be an affectionless and sexless marriage, divorce, or cheating. I plan to insist on counseling for us and will work hard towards a positive outcome. I certainly prefer a return to an intimate relationship with my wife than an occasional BJ with a buddy. I will be a very happy man if we can work this out. But if it doesn’t and we stay together, I will again have to wonder if I am happy because my needs are met and she is happy because I leave her alone, who is being cheated.

What can I say? krrptyc, that was beautiful, touching, and insightful (both into LDD's situation as we are given to understand it, and into your own)! Your commitment to tempering high standards for yourself with high standards for your relationship is admirable!

I *so* wish you the very best of luck!

[tenni]

Rissa
The thing that you seem incapable of doing is to identify with the situation that a biguy married to a straight woman who he has not disclosed his sexuality to is in. You are ignorant of that and so is your bi husband. You and some others are heartlessly lacking empathy and blinded by the cheating concept as a moral issue for you.

Here is what one person PM to me, It is bigots like you who prevent some biguys from participating here. Yet you rant on about a lot of unrelated non sexuality topics. I'm fine with that but just put a lock on your keyboard typing if it doesn't affect you personally and you have an obvious intolerant attitude towards being supportive of the situation. It is one that you will never be in.

Oh, btw, have you forgotten the internet rule about being the first one to use the term "nazi" when in an internet conflict?:tongue:

"
The way *I* see it, from the holier than thou crowd, if you are married, bi, and the spouse doesn't know, then you should either, A) get yourself castrated... B) just shut the f*ck up and go jack off in the corner like the male dog you are... or C) be "truthful" with your spouse, come clean as it were, and brace yourself for the inevitable impact of losing your spouse/and or entire family, your job, your "reputation" (living in a small town, that can and does mean A LOT)... in short, risk the 97% chance of losing EVERYTHING and being forced to leave the town you grew up in and move far away and start your life over, from scratch... barring of course any alimony/child-support which could be attached to your ass for the rest of your life.

If it's all the same to you, I would just assume keep my mouth shut, and do what I do in private and leave well enough alone.

If anyone suggests any other options, they are just heavily medicated. THOSE *ARE THE ONLY* choices for a guy.

NOW, if the shoe were on the other foot, i would have to say that 90% of MEN out there would cream in their own shorts if their WIFE came home one day and announced that she was in fact BI and that she wanted to either bring home another woman to play with, or go play with another woman... well naturally, most of us guys would only be upset if we were not allowed to at least WATCH the proceedings.



But I myself would not go ape-sh*t and LEAVE my wife or announce to the world at large that she was "just an effing no good queer"...
women just simply get better treatment in this area, and THAT is a *fact*.

Here in the Buckle of the Bible Belt, it just ain't gonna go well for a married guy to announce that he is bi.

Might as well be Tiger Woods stumbling into a Clan meeting...
no good can come from it.


Feel free to post any of that you want, but I cant see myself posting in public on this forum ever again with the hypocrisy running amuck."

[rissababynta]

Well after all that longwinded whining, I still come back to what I said before. It's a public forum, and it states opinions are accepted. If you can't accept other people's opinions on something that is generally known to be something that is morally wrong anyway, that is no one's fault here.

The way I see it you have two options...get over it...or take your own advice and remain silent.

[Long Duck Dong]

[QUOTE]]

Now I understand the LDD’s “what problem?” response to my situation. If I understand his standards; because my wife refused my request, I should now just accept an affectionless and sexless marriage and should just suck it up, that may not be the appropriate term,:bigrin: but you know what I mean. After all, I will not die because I am not having sex. I readily agree that I won’t die without sex but the difference between LDD and me is, nowhere in my wedding vows did I say “I will love you unconditionally even if you to take advantage of me, are unfaithful, and ignore my needs.” No offence intended LDD, but you seem to hold everyone but your partner (present and past) to high standards. You seem downright disgusted with anyone who cheats, except those who cheat on you. IMHO, unconditional love should be given to children and dogs, because children deserve it and dogs will return it.

Craving human contact and affection is hardwired into our genes. Living together without affection or intimacy is not a marriage, it’s a roommate situation. It just so happens that I am in love with my present roommate and it is killing me that my only choices seem to be an affectionless and sexless marriage, divorce, or cheating. I plan to insist on counseling for us and will work hard towards a positive outcome. I certainly prefer a return to an intimate relationship with my wife than an occasional BJ with a buddy. I will be a very happy man if we can work this out. But if it doesn’t and we stay together, I will again have to wonder if I am happy because my needs are met and she is happy because I leave her alone, who is being cheated.

what a load of BS

I hold me to high standards, not my partners.... even twyla who is my partner, stated that I gave her the option of extramartial affairs...... but if you read my posts, I never allow myself that option.... so i am fucked if I know how you managed to read that I hold others to high standards....

I am anti betrayal and failure of trust.... and yes that can present as cheating..... and as I have stated and many people get pissed off about.... I view cheating as simply the want to fuck and be fucked..... and people justify that as a human right that over rides anything, including marriage vows or declarations of love and caring for a partner in a relationship / marriage

now, before you get that wrong too..... I view lies and dishonesty as unacceptable in the work place / online games too... etc etc..... as twyla can tell you.... I have no time for liars.... specially people that feel that their need to get laid is more important than their family and loved ones

I suggest you go back and reread my post before you post again and get it wrong.....and make assumptions

[Long Duck Dong]

Rissa
The thing that you seem incapable of doing is to identify with the situation that a biguy married to a straight woman who he has not disclosed his sexuality to is in. You are ignorant of that and so is your bi husband. You and some others are heartlessly lacking empathy and blinded by the cheating concept as a moral issue for you.

Here is what one person PM to me, It is bigots like you who prevent some biguys from participating here. Yet you rant on about a lot of unrelated non sexuality topics. I'm fine with that but just put a lock on your keyboard typing if it doesn't affect you personally and you have an obvious intolerant attitude towards being supportive of the situation. It is one that you will never be in.

Oh, btw, have you forgotten the internet rule about being the first one to use the term "nazi" when in an internet conflict?:tongue:

"
The way *I* see it, from the holier than thou crowd, if you are married, bi, and the spouse doesn't know, then you should either, A) get yourself castrated... B) just shut the f*ck up and go jack off in the corner like the male dog you are... or C) be "truthful" with your spouse, come clean as it were, and brace yourself for the inevitable impact of losing your spouse/and or entire family, your job, your "reputation" (living in a small town, that can and does mean A LOT)... in short, risk the 97% chance of losing EVERYTHING and being forced to leave the town you grew up in and move far away and start your life over, from scratch... barring of course any alimony/child-support which could be attached to your ass for the rest of your life.

If it's all the same to you, I would just assume keep my mouth shut, and do what I do in private and leave well enough alone.

If anyone suggests any other options, they are just heavily medicated. THOSE *ARE THE ONLY* choices for a guy.

NOW, if the shoe were on the other foot, i would have to say that 90% of MEN out there would cream in their own shorts if their WIFE came home one day and announced that she was in fact BI and that she wanted to either bring home another woman to play with, or go play with another woman... well naturally, most of us guys would only be upset if we were not allowed to at least WATCH the proceedings.



But I myself would not go ape-sh*t and LEAVE my wife or announce to the world at large that she was "just an effing no good queer"...
women just simply get better treatment in this area, and THAT is a *fact*.

Here in the Buckle of the Bible Belt, it just ain't gonna go well for a married guy to announce that he is bi.

Might as well be Tiger Woods stumbling into a Clan meeting...
no good can come from it.


Feel free to post any of that you want, but I cant see myself posting in public on this forum ever again with the hypocrisy running amuck."


the holier than thou crowd ????? roflmao.........

is it not the * we must fuck by any means possible including cheating and being dishonest * crowd.. that are the ones that are saying they have NO options other than cheat ??????

the holier than thou crowd are not the ones making excuses so they can sleep around.....

[PyreBi]

You being unfaithful to your spouse is a hole you dug. I personally don't agree with it, but your hole. Climb out of it, tell your spose, or stay in it. Your choice.

[coyotedude]

Just a couple of random thoughts...

I disclosed my bisexuality to my last girlfriend the first night we started going together. Since my last girlfriend has been my wife for the last 13 years, the conversation obviously went rather well. You can be bisexual and open to your partner.

That doesn't mean that we haven't had issues. There have been times when my partner has been insecure about my bisexuality. On occasion she has wondered whether I would ever leave her for a man - or cheat on her with a man, for that matter. Open honest communication between the two of us has been an absolute necessity over the years.

I am also aware that I am probably one of the lucky ones (or blessed, if you prefer). Not everybody finds themselves with a partner open to their bisexuality. I don't have any good advice; I honestly feel for those who find themselves in that difficult situation.

I'm nothing more than a flawed and fallible human being myself, so I don't feel comfortable passing judgment on other people's choices. I will say that with choice comes consequence, and there's no such thing as a free ride. If you don't like the idea of your partner cheating on you, for example, then perhaps it's not the best idea to cheat on your partner. But how you choose to live your life is up to you, even if your choices are not the ones I would make.

Peace

[Annika L]

Being gay, or bi, or a zebra does not give you the right to cheat.

This issue raises new confusions for me, but ultimately I think I come down on the side of the zebras. On the one hand I don't believe we should hold wild animals to the same standards of ethics as humans. On the other hand I don't believe zebras actually make promises of fidelity to one another, so the whole question of whether they *can* cheat is open to dispute. But if a zebra ever *did* make a promise of fidelity to its mate, I question whether it could truly be said to know what it was getting into...unlike humans...I mean zebras are intelligent, but they're not ape-intelligent, like we are.:rolleyes:

Therefore, I would have to say that I for one support the right of zebras (male or female) to cheat on their mates.

Thanks, Pasa, for adding a whole new dimension to this colorful debate! :tong:

[mikey3000]

Absolutely Brilliant!!!!

[Annika L]

Now I understand the LDD’s “what problem?” response to my situation. If I understand his standards; because my wife refused my request, I should now just accept an affectionless and sexless marriage and should just suck it up, that may not be the appropriate term, but you know what I mean. After all, I will not die because I am not having sex. I readily agree that I won’t die without sex but the difference between LDD and me is, nowhere in my wedding vows did I say “I will love you unconditionally even if you to take advantage of me, are unfaithful, and ignore my needs.” No offence intended LDD, but you seem to hold everyone but your partner (present and past) to high standards. You seem downright disgusted with anyone who cheats, except those who cheat on you. IMHO, unconditional love should be given to children and dogs, because children deserve it and dogs will return it.

Craving human contact and affection is hardwired into our genes. Living together without affection or intimacy is not a marriage, it’s a roommate situation. It just so happens that I am in love with my present roommate and it is killing me that my only choices seem to be an affectionless and sexless marriage, divorce, or cheating. I plan to insist on counseling for us and will work hard towards a positive outcome. I certainly prefer a return to an intimate relationship with my wife than an occasional BJ with a buddy. I will be a very happy man if we can work this out. But if it doesn’t and we stay together, I will again have to wonder if I am happy because my needs are met and she is happy because I leave her alone, who is being cheated.

what a load of BS

I hold me to high standards, not my partners.... even twyla who is my partner, stated that I gave her the option of extramartial affairs...... but if you read my posts, I never allow myself that option.... so i am fucked if I know how you managed to read that I hold others to high standards....

I am anti betrayal and failure of trust.... and yes that can present as cheating..... and as I have stated and many people get pissed off about.... I view cheating as simply the want to fuck and be fucked..... and people justify that as a human right that over rides anything, including marriage vows or declarations of love and caring for a partner in a relationship / marriage

now, before you get that wrong too..... I view lies and dishonesty as unacceptable in the work place / online games too... etc etc..... as twyla can tell you.... I have no time for liars.... specially people that feel that their need to get laid is more important than their family and loved ones

I suggest you go back and reread my post before you post again and get it wrong.....and make assumptions

I have no idea what you actually feel, LDD, but to my ear you *sound* extremely bitter.

If you read krrptyc's message, he says exactly what you just said: you hold yourself and *not* your partners to high standards...and I can see how this policy could make anyone bitter, especially given how you once allowed yourself to be used as a doormat by a partner for so long.

The way you tell your story, and the context in which you bring it up certainly led *me* to believe that you judge people using yourself as a yardstick...*you* stuck with your abusive partner for a long time; therefore others should as well. No, you didn't say those words outright...but I felt that judgement, just like krrptyc apparently did.

Krrptyc never accuses you of hypocrisy toward your partners...he accuses you (if it can be said to be an accusation) of holding your partners to lower standards than you hold yourself, while holding *cheaters who are not your partner* to the *same* standards to which you hold yourself. And I see why he does so. Perhaps it's a misunderstanding, but if so, krrptyc's not the only one who misunderstood.

Anyway, I'm not clear on what he actually got wrong or on what he said that constitutes a load of BS.

[Long Duck Dong]

I have no idea what you actually feel, LDD, but to my ear you *sound* extremely bitter.

If you read krrptyc's message, he says exactly what you just said: you hold yourself and *not* your partners to high standards...and I can see how this policy could make anyone bitter, especially given how you once allowed yourself to be used as a doormat by a partner for so long.

The way you tell your story, and the context in which you bring it up certainly led *me* to believe that you judge people using yourself as a yardstick...*you* stuck with your abusive partner for a long time; therefore others should as well. No, you didn't say those words outright...but I felt that judgement, just like krrptyc apparently did.

Krrptyc never accuses you of hypocrisy toward your partners...he accuses you (if it can be said to be an accusation) of holding your partners to lower standards than you hold yourself, while holding *cheaters who are not your partner* to the *same* standards to which you hold yourself. And I see why he does so. Perhaps it's a misunderstanding, but if so, krrptyc's not the only one who misunderstood.

Anyway, I'm not clear on what he actually got wrong or on what he said that constitutes a load of BS.


I was refering to this statement by krrptyc
* No offence intended LDD, but you seem to hold everyone but your partner (present and past) to high standards. You seem downright disgusted with anyone who cheats, except those who cheat on you. IMHO, unconditional love should be given to children and dogs, because children deserve it and dogs will return it. *

I am not bitter about my past relationships, as for better or worse, they taught me that I am far from perfect, and that no relationship is perfect....

in my abusive relationship I had the choice to stay or leave, I stayed.... but I had the choice.... that was a personal decision I made for myself....
I do view it that a partner SHOULD have a choice, and if we cheat on our partners, we are not giving them that right, cos we want our partners and our fun.....that to me is selfish......

the holding my partners to a lower standard ??? no I hold me to a higher standard, and allow my partners to express themselves as they wish..... but I am very self critical due to the fact I have dystimia which makes it differcult to relate to and communicate with people... so i am always hard on myself and worrying that I am failing to address my partners wants needs and desires properly... it is also a safety net to stop me spiralling out of control into a deep depressive state....
I give freedom to my partners to do as they please, cos that way, if they come to my arms night after night, I am a blessed man..... if they never come back.... then I may have lost love, but I have lost a lifetime of lonlyness in a relationship too

I do not judge others according to myself as a yardstick as thats a bit like judging dogs using a cat as a rule of thumb

how I stand on things.... is simplistic.....

1) in your relationships, your partner has the right to make choices, don't make them for ya partner or deny them the right to make a decision about their happiness and future

2) love as best you can, your ability to love is not perfect, but nor is your partner, make the most of it....

3) always question what you will go without or forego for your partner, when you are expecting them to forego things for you....

4) you do not own your partner, they are a person too

5) to err is human, to screw up is natural, to fuck a persons life up for your own gain is not worth it....

6) love making is a gift, not a human right or obligation... you can have sex with people, you make love with the one you hold in your arms and heart

[BLCHGK777]

Wow okay I am just going to say to the original poster this:

If you are not telling her because you want to save your marriage, scared or whatever fine that is your baggage to carry. Remember this though no matter what any of us on here say when it all boils down coming out is YOUR decision. Complaining about comments is not worth it if you hate the opinions so much then keep doing as you like and use your judgement. I wish you the best on your future because in my opinion this seems like it could cloud it no matter what you do now.

Okay to all the name calling like "Holier than thous" and "Cheater condoners" PLEASE stop it. The conversation wouldn't be so messy if some kept it polite and non mud slinging like.

To those who are yelling "Holier than thous": I have noticed a good number of these people have been cheated on. I think they would know since they have received the devastation left in their hearts by their current or ex partners. But I have one question for all of you "Holier than thou" name callers : Have you been cheated on? if you answer no to this question than please realize that you have never felt the pain they have. Put yourselves in their shoes and think about it before you sling mud.

To those yelling "Cheater condoners" I think you are using a wrong and impolite term. I think those who are mostly defending the original poster have felt the pain of coming out to a spouse expecting exceptance and have instead gotten a slap in the face (emotionally, physically, mentally or all of the above) or back turning. Maybe some of them are trying to warn him, maybe some are trying to save him the trouble because they no longer trust anyone either way I don't know but they have a good reason probably in their eyes and just because you don't see it doesn't mean they are wrong.

Everyone here has a great opinion I think but the only problem is everyone is saying someone is wrong because they view things differently. This is a place for that too which is why it is so lovely. But these opinions can be expressed a lot more kindly and politely I believe if everyone agrees to disagree.

This is just my opinion by what I have read please don't misunderstand.

[ElPincheViejo]

Let me simply observe that human relationships are very complicated, and that what's good for the goose isn't necessarily the best thing for the OTHER goose. I also have to say that tossing around morally loaded words like "cheating" is akin to the way the 'pro-life' folks toss around "murder". It indicates sanctimony with respect to one's own situation, but advances serious and thoughtful discussion not at all.

I simply do not believe that there is a good, "one-size-fits-all" answer to these powerful and very personal dilemmas. In general, whether or not it is advisable to 'come out' to a spouse must depend upon a number of considerations that only a person in the situation can properly evaluate. I can envision plenty of relationships in which only disastrous results would follow from choosing such a course, and others where this course might lead to a deeper understanding between partners. Consequently, I would resist the temptation to generalize about it.

Best regards to all.

[darkeyes]

I'm not generalizing. It's pretty simple.

*If you sleep with someone other than your spouse, and your spouse has not given their consent it is cheating.

*If you sleep with someone other than your spouse, and your spouse has not given their consent, and then you sleep with your spouse it is rape.

That's pretty cut and dry. Your reason for cheating is irrelevant. I might even agree that it can be justified (being bi is not justification). But, the fact that it's cheating is not really up for debate. I suppose we could use the legal term of adultery. That works for me since it has a legal definition, which is again not really up for debate. Take your actions, apply them to the above "if/then" statements and proceed as necessary.

It is clear to me that you wish to prevaricate. That's one strategy, I suppose. It usually is used when one wishes to justify one's actions by technicality.

Pasa

I have decided to re-enter this discussion pasa because on this you go much too far.

Cheating and then fucking a spouse or partner is not and can never be thought of as rape. Under your criteria I am rapist which is absolute nonsense. In fact possibly I can be considered a multiple rapist, since I cheated not only on a husband, but a number of steady boy friends and several girl friends all of whom I had sex with after the event. I admit that it was not very nice, and it was dishonest, but rape? Were they not partners of sorts? Or does it only apply to wives and husbands?

I have also been two timed by, and later screwed by not a few boy friends and girl friends.. one of whom was a live in lover.. was I raped by those I had sex with after they had first two timed me? No. I don't think so.

By taking your criteria to the enth degree, any person who sexually seduces another, and does not tell the truth about themselves in any way (lying about marital status, job, sexuality, status in society, salary, prospects.. or merely omitting same) could be considered rapists. Many people are untruthful as they strive to get laid and fulfill their sexual desires. By your criteria Pasa, we do not have to be married or live with someone to be considered a rapist.. by your criteria Pasa, two people who are both untruthful to each other (including both playing away so to speak), can be considered as having raped each other should they have sex. Isnt that an interesting supposition?

Knowingly passing on STD's to a spouse or partner as a result of an infidelity is a seperate, yet linked issue. There are penalties in law for doing this and it is quite right that their should be so. Whether the penalties for passing on the worst of them, such as HIV are severe enough is another issue, for the worst of them are indeed a death sentence. Yet rape?

No sweetie.. you go too far with this claim for all the fact I understand why you may think as you do.. Cheating isnt nice, its not pleasant, its dishonest and often destroys lives.. it causes great pain and hurt.. but by no stretch of the imagination, having sex with a spouse or partner afterward, can be considered as rape.

I know what rape is pasa hun..and believe me...what you suggest isnt it....:)

[mikey3000]

Let me simply observe that human relationships are very complicated, and that what's good for the goose isn't necessarily the best thing for the OTHER goose. I also have to say that tossing around morally loaded words like "cheating" is akin to the way the 'pro-life' folks toss around "murder". It indicates sanctimony with respect to one's own situation, but advances serious and thoughtful discussion not at all.

I simply do not believe that there is a good, "one-size-fits-all" answer to these powerful and very personal dilemmas. In general, whether or not it is advisable to 'come out' to a spouse must depend upon a number of considerations that only a person in the situation can properly evaluate. I can envision plenty of relationships in which only disastrous results would follow from choosing such a course, and others where this course might lead to a deeper understanding between partners. Consequently, I would resist the temptation to generalize about it.

Best regards to all.



Very well said. Congradulations on a very intelligent response.

And Pasadenacpl, EVERYTHING here is up for debate. That's kind of the point of this particular thread. Please don't stomp all over other's opinions. It sort of defeats the purpose of a discussion board. Everyone has an opinion, and none are invalid. Please respect their right to opine too.

Thanks.

Darkeyes Hon, please don't beat yourself up. We are all human and do make mistakes, but we are here to share our experiences and to hopefully help eachother overcome our past mistakes, lick our wounds, grow and move on.

And the rape comment was probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

[rissababynta]

Very well said. Congradulations on a very intelligent response.

And Pasadenacpl, EVERYTHING here is up for debate. That's kind of the point of this particular thread. Please don't stomp all over other's opinions. It sort of defeats the purpose of a discussion board. Everyone has an opinion, and none are invalid. Please respect their right to opine too.

Thanks.

Darkeyes Hon, please don't beat yourself up. We are all human and do make mistakes, but we are here to share our experiences and to hopefully help eachother overcome our past mistakes, lick our wounds, grow and move on.

And the rape comment was probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

I pretty much agree with this entire post.

[BLCHGK777]

How is it rape? Great question, glad you asked. Your spouse sleeps with everyone you sleep with. They have the right to consent to that. If you deny them that right, then you are, in effect, raping them.


Sounds like what you are describing here is adultery not rape.

[tenni]

"Cheating, no matter what your justification, is still cheating."

Pasa
The bottom line is so what. It happens for a variety of reasons. Morality is subjectively created by philosophy, religion and/or individual conscience. Right and Wrong are subjective. You have changed nothing with your words. Face reality.

[wildwestgoob]

I also have to say that tossing around morally loaded words like "cheating" is akin to the way the 'pro-life' folks toss around "murder". It indicates sanctimony with respect to one's own situation, but advances serious and thoughtful discussion not at all.


Sanctimonious.


Indeed.


Great post.

[Long Duck Dong]

"Cheating, no matter what your justification, is still cheating."

Pasa
The bottom line is so what. It happens for a variety of reasons. Morality is subjectively created by philosophy, religion and/or individual conscience. Right and Wrong are subjective. You have changed nothing with your words. Face reality.

I do find it interesting that you dismiss morality as a religious form of creation..... so in your eyes, infidelity is a religion based conditioning.....

but I have never seen you speak out against marriage which has a connection to religion, and is the cause of adultery / infidelity.... part of the ideals behind marriage is faithfulness and monogamy...

so i ask you... do you support marriage, as a religion based creation for people to join in matrimony, yet oppose the basis of marriage which is based around one man, one woman..... and I am going on the legal standpoint that... not the days of polygamous marriage....

I am asking as it seems a lil odd to support one thing, but oppose the very grounds on what its based on

[rissababynta]

Pasa, I know where you were going with the whole "rape" thing, and I understand the concept of how you came to that conclusion. However, there are people in the world who really are raped, and to lump a cheating spouse into the same category as that...well...that is just a tad bit messed up in my opinion.

[CuddlyKate]

Pasa, I know where you were going with the whole "rape" thing, and I understand the concept of how you came to that conclusion. However, there are people in the world who really are raped, and to lump a cheating spouse into the same category as that...well...that is just a tad bit messed up in my opinion.

I agree. Anyone who knows anyone who has been raped is all too aware that the two cannot be compared. Both are traumatic events, and leave mental scars which can take years to recover from. The physical act of rape is the much more traumatic, since it involves a degree of immediate violence and intrusion upon the person that cheating never can. Cheating can and does often lead to a level of violence which is as severe, sometimes even to loss of life. Yet that violence is after the fact and is a different thing altogether.

[tenni]

Pasa
I'm not going to review the posts but the word "morality" has been used either by you or those who support your premise. You have certainly written the word "wrong".

Ethics, sometimes also known as moral philosophy, is a branch of philosophy which seeks to address questions about morality; that is, about concepts like good and bad, right and wrong, justice, virtue, etc.

Questions of ethics are linked to questions about morality. The issue for me is about your "absolutism" and how you tend to refer to and apply it to others. I personally find bisexuals who make such judgments strange when bisexuality is "wrong" and unethical from certain perspectives.


I did not address this from a moral standpoint, but an ethical one. Morals are subjective. Ethics rarely are.

Pasa

[tenni]

I don't dismiss morality but point out that religion is only one of the sources that determines a moral perspective. Individual conscience may over rule the majority religious dogma present in a society about the moral issue. It shows the subjectivity of the moral issue.

Marriage is a legal arrangement and not a religious arrangement. Some religions and philosophies may have a moral perspective about marriage and may have influenced the legal system at one time. It is the State that give the license to legally marry and not a Church. Recently, in my country it has been shown that the religious perspective about marriage violates our Charter of Rights and Freedom. The Charter determines the legality even if it contradicts religious dogma. It is our Charter that over ruled the control that religion had used to reject same sex marriage. The religions argued and some MP's agreed but the laws on marriage were not controlled by one or five religious perspectives on same sex marriage. The morality of these churches were null and void except for their followers who still say same sex and same sex marriage is "wrong".


I do find it interesting that you dismiss morality as a religious form of creation..... so in your eyes, infidelity is a religion based conditioning.....

but I have never seen you speak out against marriage which has a connection to religion, and is the cause of adultery / infidelity.... part of the ideals behind marriage is faithfulness and monogamy...

so i ask you... do you support marriage, as a religion based creation for people to join in matrimony, yet oppose the basis of marriage which is based around one man, one woman..... and I am going on the legal standpoint that... not the days of polygamous marriage....

I am asking as it seems a lil odd to support one thing, but oppose the very grounds on what its based on

[confused wife]

I am first and foremost trying to get my head around my husband being by, but he want me to accept that he is in love with a gay man in chili and wants me to wait until June to find out if he wants this man or me , he has never had sex with a man before and i am not sure my sanity will allow him to come back to me if he decides this man is not what he wants, i have come to this site for understanding but when i put anything it is ignored, so maybe the wife's opinion doesn't count 1 iota , but i am hurt that i have to deal with not just his sexuality but the fact he loves a man bu wants me to wait while he chooses, i will probably not get a response to this as i don't seem to matter as I'm straight but how can i understand if i have no help, We have been married for 14 years and i love him dearly but if he wants to choose between us is he bi?.

[Annika L]

Pasa, I know where you were going with the whole "rape" thing, and I understand the concept of how you came to that conclusion. However, there are people in the world who really are raped, and to lump a cheating spouse into the same category as that...well...that is just a tad bit messed up in my opinion.

Extremely well-put Rissa!

I've heard this rape-inference before in other places, and I grapple with it each time I hear it...ultimately, it seems to me to be the wrong accusation and we need a better word for it.

Let's face it: your partner isn't *really* sleeping with everyone you sleep with...they are only metaphorically sleeping with everyone you sleep with...or theoretically, if that strikes you as a more appropriate word. For instance, if I had sex with a man, and then with my partner, if she was *really* sleeping with that man, there'd be a chance she'd get pregnant, right?

Ok, so at best we're talking about metaphorical rape.

Now let's dice this just a bit finer. Suppose *before* I ever met my partner I had sex with 5 other people. If I don't disclose this fact to her before she and I have sex for the first time, then that is rape? Pasa might say, well if she doesn't ask, then it's tacit consent. Ok, suppose we discuss sexual history, and I forget that 4th guy...is this unintentional rape? What if I'm *really* not proud of that guy, and intentionally don't mention him? Rape by Pasa's standards, right? If so I don't like to think of just how much rape is going on in this country...I would dare say that the majority of men and women have been raped, probably multiple times.

And how would I completely protect myself from raping my partner in these circumstances? Surely it's not just the number of people, but also who they are (which might require having her actually meet them, since just a name doesn't really tell her much), whether or not protection was used, etc. If a condom was used, she needs details like what brand, was he thrusting hard, did he withdraw while he was still fully erect, etc., otherwise she can't fully understand her risk.

I dunno...seems like a stretch to me. The damage done or even risked is important, don't get me wrong. But tantamount to rape? I think we need a better word.

[tenni]

Hi confused wife
I think that I read a post by you earlier on this thread. May I suggest that you start your own thread about your question? I'm sure that there are many who would be willing to discuss your situation. There are straight wives who are on here and some of them may have some very good advice for you. I wish you well with your situation. This may be too much of a hot tomato thread for your problem...lol I'll send this as a PM to you as well.



I am first and foremost trying to get my head around my husband being by, but he want me to accept that he is in love with a gay man in chili and wants me to wait until June to find out if he wants this man or me , he has never had sex with a man before and i am not sure my sanity will allow him to come back to me if he decides this man is not what he wants, i have come to this site for understanding but when i put anything it is ignored, so maybe the wife's opinion doesn't count 1 iota , but i am hurt that i have to deal with not just his sexuality but the fact he loves a man bu wants me to wait while he chooses, i will probably not get a response to this as i don't seem to matter as I'm straight but how can i understand if i have no help, We have been married for 14 years and i love him dearly but if he wants to choose between us is he bi?.

[ElPincheViejo]

I'm not generalizing. It's pretty simple.

*If you sleep with someone other than your spouse, and your spouse has not given their consent it is cheating.

*If you sleep with someone other than your spouse, and your spouse has not given their consent, and then you sleep with your spouse it is rape.

That's pretty cut and dry. Your reason for cheating is irrelevant. I might even agree that it can be justified (being bi is not justification). But, the fact that it's cheating is not really up for debate. I suppose we could use the legal term of adultery. That works for me since it has a legal definition, which is again not really up for debate. Take your actions, apply them to the above "if/then" statements and proceed as necessary.

It is clear to me that you wish to prevaricate. That's one strategy, I suppose. It usually is used when one wishes to justify one's actions by technicality.

Pasa

Just a couple of remarks: First, the burden of my contribution was not to deny that sleeping with someone other than your spouse without spousal consent is cheating. Rather, it was instead to suggest that the initial post is this thread was not about whether or not cheating was going on. It was about whether to inform a spouse. To cavalierly dismiss the concerns he expressed by simply responding that cheating is wrong entirely misses the point. Not everything is quite so black-and-white as this kind of response suggests. Reasons for withholding this kind of information from a spouse cannot be simply pushed aside by acknowledging that one's activity falls under the common sense definition of cheating, therefore it is wrong, therefore I should confess and solicit permission in the future. Matters are often more complicated than that. But then, for easy answers, no forum would be needed.

Secondly, I see no reason to infer that anyone wishes to prevaricate. Discussion does not amount to prevarication. Nor does disagreement.

Finally--contemporary philosophers treat 'ethics' and 'morals' as synonyms. Neither is inherently subjective nor objective. This is a distinction without a difference.

Regards,
Jack

[tenni]

IElPincheViejo
I agree with much that you write.

LDD
"o i ask you... do you support marriage, as a religion based creation for people to join in matrimony, yet oppose the basis of marriage which is based around one man, one woman..... and I am going on the legal standpoint that... not the days of polygamous marriage...."

I debated whether to comment on what you wrote about marriage as I wasn't sure if it was on topic of this thread(it is already way off topic as IElPincheViejo has pointed out)....but oh..heck...lol

I will point out that the same Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms would probably cancel the concept of marriage as being between two people. It has already been decided that the gender of the marriage partners is not just male and female. In the case of polygamy, a man was charged recently. There were comments that polygamy would be found to be contrary to the Charter if tested at the Supreme Court level (probably on religious grounds rather than sex grounds in the same sex marriage issue). I believe that this was the first charge in quite sometime although there are branches of radical Mormonism in BC that have been there for at least 60 or more years. (There is a similar branch in the US)

I believe that charges have been quietly dropped because of the Charter. It is a moral issue to have more than one partner. Both numbers and gender are a moral perspective that will not stand up legally in Canada. Who is to say that a bisexual having same sex outside of his/her heterosexual marriage may also be seen as a moral issue that has no legality if questioned at the Supreme Court? It shows that possibly all of this right and wrong talk is subjective moral decisions and not legal positions.

We, Canadians, must look like perverts to these radical Christians with their "that's wrong" and immoral preaching..lol

[rissababynta]

I am first and foremost trying to get my head around my husband being by, but he want me to accept that he is in love with a gay man in chili and wants me to wait until June to find out if he wants this man or me , he has never had sex with a man before and i am not sure my sanity will allow him to come back to me if he decides this man is not what he wants, i have come to this site for understanding but when i put anything it is ignored, so maybe the wife's opinion doesn't count 1 iota , but i am hurt that i have to deal with not just his sexuality but the fact he loves a man bu wants me to wait while he chooses, i will probably not get a response to this as i don't seem to matter as I'm straight but how can i understand if i have no help, We have been married for 14 years and i love him dearly but if he wants to choose between us is he bi?.

Hun, to be honest with you, the problem that I see in this situation isn't so much that he is bi, or in love with another man, but that he has little problem telling you right out that he may or may not kick you to the side for another individual. That is not what people do to their significant others that they love. That is just mean.

I think that some marriage counseling would be best right now to find out why he has a problem with putting you, his wife, first and THEN sit down and try to figure the whole sexuality thing out.

[darkeyes]

If you sleep with someone else. You should inform your spouse. BEFORE you do it. The gender you sleep with doesn't matter. If you can't tell your wife that you're bi, then you DON'T go out and get it from a guy on the side. And if you do, accept that it's cheating, and it's wrong. And don't tell folks who have the balls to tell you so that they are being 'holier-than-thou'. I for one am not.

It's not wrong because you're sleeping with a guy. It's wrong because you are cheating on your spouse. And hell. I'll just put it out there and say that I've cheated on my wife. I have since confessed and begged forgiveness. But, I knew it was wrong when I did it.

Pasa

...is still not rape tho hun...:)

[goldenfinger]

According Webster Dictionary, cheat (Verb):

1. Deprive somebody of something by deceit.
2. Defeat someone in an expectation through trickery or deceit.
3. Engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud; "Who's chiseling on the side?".
4. Be sexually unfaithful to one's partner in marriage; "She cheats on her husband"; "Might her husband be wandering?".

Cheat is bad, always, no doubt. Who doesn't cheat than can cast the stone, or 1 to 3 is less important than 4?

Hugs
So right. One is not better then the other. If you go behind someones back, it doesn't matter how big or small. I f you don't disclose everything, you disclose nothing. And your not a better person for that.If you think spending undisclosed money, or having one undisclosed beer is not cheating, your just kidding yourself.
I was watching DR Phil the other day, and they were talking about "cheating"
they were talking to women who were the other woman, why they did it and all that. However, he said up to 25% of men cheat at some time. Now, you work that out just for the people in the US.That's a lot, and they can't all have an affair with single women.
I have never been a person to take the high moral ground, the higher you stand, the harder you fall.

"O Lord, I have sinned"
'I never had a sexual relationship with that woman"

And on it goes, truly makes me sick.
If the people in high places can't keep their dick to them self,so maybe this whole 'faithful" thing is the wrong way we go.Remember, nuns too have sexual molested young girls, it is not just men.

LDD, the foundation of all laws, is based on religion, there can be no question of that..
If you choose to stay in a bad relationship for 7 years just to prove some silly point, in my eyes, your a fool, it's like saying a beaten and abused wife should also stay in a bad relationship just to prove a point. you got out of the relationship, so in the end you have proved nothing, but you'r a fool..
at least, you saved someone else for a 7 year itch.:bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

I don't dismiss morality but point out that religion is only one of the sources that determines a moral perspective. Individual conscience may over rule the majority religious dogma present in a society about the moral issue. It shows the subjectivity of the moral issue.

Marriage is a legal arrangement and not a religious arrangement. Some religions and philosophies may have a moral perspective about marriage and may have influenced the legal system at one time. It is the State that give the license to legally marry and not a Church. Recently, in my country it has been shown that the religious perspective about marriage violates our Charter of Rights and Freedom. The Charter determines the legality even if it contradicts religious dogma. It is our Charter that over ruled the control that religion had used to reject same sex marriage. The religions argued and some MP's agreed but the laws on marriage were not controlled by one or five religious perspectives on same sex marriage. The morality of these churches were null and void except for their followers who still say same sex and same sex marriage is "wrong".

ok just so I am clear..... marriage which is mentioned in the bible and the bible is over 2000 year old.... is a legal arrangement and not a religious one ???? joined in the eyes of god....?????

yet you use a recent arrangement to define marriage as a legal arrangement....????? same sex marriage argument....

my question is pertaining to marriage and marriage is part of the OP and the way that cheating is being defined as a moral decision.... IE is cheating morally right or morally wrong in a marriage relationship and does the player have a moral obligation to inform their partner

so I was questioning how cheating is a moral based decision and morals are based in part on religious instruction..... and how marriage is also based around religious instruction..... and your stance on them both.....

if marriage is the source of infidelity in matrimony... would it not be better to phase out marriage... thus removing the moral aspect of being faithful and the issue of infidelity in matrimony

the issue there is that people will argue that it is their right to join in matrimony with the one they love and cherish....and that raises a key point that also illustrates something I have been saying and getting told I am wrong.... and that cheating is not also about love, its about sex and a lot of cheating is about sex....

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD, the foundation of all laws, is based on religion, there can be no question of that..
If you choose to stay in a bad relationship for 7 years just to prove some silly point, in my eyes, your a fool, it's like saying a beaten and abused wife should also stay in a bad relationship just to prove a point. you got out of the relationship, so in the end you have proved nothing, but you'r a fool..
at least, you saved someone else for a 7 year itch.:bigrin:


thank you..... now tell me if my partner would have been better to lie to me about the affairs... since I am a fool for staying with a cheating / lying partner

and if I am a fool for staying with my partner and being treated like shit.... what is your point of view on people that endorse the right to cheat cos they have * needs * and feel that it gives them the right to lie to their partners.....

I am not trying to get you to point the finger here or *attack * people..... but I am emphasizing the point that I am a fool for staying in a shit relationship... but getting judged for saying to others that the least they can do is give their partners the option of leaving or not.....instead of saying that they do not want to lose their partners that they love so much, so they have to lie to them

[tenni]

LDD
"my question is pertaining to marriage and marriage is part of the OP and the way that cheating is being defined as a moral decision.... IE is cheating morally right or morally wrong in a marriage relationship and does the player have a moral obligation to inform their partner"

I would write to you that is your interpretation of the OP's idea. The OP does not refer to morality. The OP questions whether it is a good solution for a married bisexual man to disclose his sexuality to a straight spouse. His opinion is that it is not a good decision but a mistake to disclose your bisexuality as the reality of a straight female spouse having the ability to take this disclosure as not being a personal attack on her is very small. No where did he state that there was a moral delimna for him. His personal conscience rather than religious dogma led him to this position.

The real question of this entire thread has been polluted. The question or discussion point of this thread was if the married bisexual man does not disclose to his wife what should he do then? Those whose own morality told them that his decision about disclosure was wrong have imposed that the thread is about morality when it is not. They have not really dealt with the purpose of the thread at all. We have spent our energy on arguing a point that is irrelevant to the question of the thread. As I have written, I'm baffled by the blind bigotry and attempts to impose some peoples' personal morality on to all married biguys who are married to straight women.

"ok just so I am clear..... marriage which is mentioned in the bible and the bible is over 2000 year old.... is a legal arrangement and not a religious one ???? joined in the eyes of god....?????

yet you use a recent arrangement to define marriage as a legal arrangement....????? same sex marriage argument...."

If that is your belief that marriage is a religious rather than legal arrangement, you are entitled to it. Then there is no need for you to get a marriage license from the state if you get married. Report back on how many priests agree to provide a religious ceremony without your marriage license from the State. It is not relevant to me or the OP of this thread. However, it is my understanding that marriage as we know it today was established as a legal arrangement for the upper classes of Europe during the middle ages to deal with land rights. Peasants did not formalize their union with legal documents outlining land agreements as they had none. Marriage is not about being joined in the eyes of a god as much as it is a legal arrangement today. Therefore, in my country our Charter of Rights and Freedom in our constitution has clarified that minorities such as those of the same sex may not be discriminated and prevented from marrying...LEGALLY. However, if someone that the State has been granted legal rights to marry people and does not wish to perform the legal ceremony due to religious beliefs they do not have to. Religion is one of the factors that may not be discriminated against a minority by the majority as well as such things as disability.

[rissababynta]

Tenni, you really should go back and take a look at the OP. He is not asking for advice or what to do. It's not like he's innocent and confused and looking for help about a situation. He is straight up saying that in a situation like this, a person should cheat. Which again, has been the main problem that everyone has been having...that he is telling people in so many words "Eh, fuck it and just cheat."

Take a look at the last snip it of his post.

And not for nothing, I think that this was a drive-by troll situation anyway because, like usual, said individual comes in and posts a topic known to stir up heat, then sits back and watches without another word to say :rolleyes:

[tenni]

Rissa
I did go back to his OP. In fact, I took his exact words when I state what his question was at the beginning. He used a question mark...hello...lol Yes, he had made up his mind about where he stood about disclosing. That is where he raised the question about what should married biguys do if they decide not to disclose. Ya..he may have become emotional at the end but I think that is his frustrations from what he reads here. I'm pretty frustrated with the bullshit that some bisexuals try to impose on other bisexuals as is obvious.. :bigrin: I actually agree that "cheating" is not the best solution even though I bet a lot of people think that I support it. (note that is different from saying that it is wrong)

NO...my dear..this is not from a troll. This is from a real bisexual man who has no emotional attachment to other men. I know quite a few of them who have made the same decision not to disclose. Read the profiles of men. Good for the bisexual men who are able to disclose to a straight wife who accepts their bisexuality, let alone the ones that give their permission for them to play with other men.

Tenni, you really should go back and take a look at the OP. He is not asking for advice or what to do. It's not like he's innocent and confused and looking for help about a situation. He is straight up saying that in a situation like this, a person should cheat. Which again, has been the main problem that everyone has been having...that he is telling people in so many words "Eh, fuck it and just cheat."

Take a look at the last snip it of his post.

And not for nothing, I think that this was a drive-by troll situation anyway because, like usual, said individual comes in and posts a topic known to stir up heat, then sits back and watches without another word to say :rolleyes:

[Annika L]

And not for nothing, I think that this was a drive-by troll situation anyway because, like usual, said individual comes in and posts a topic known to stir up heat, then sits back and watches without another word to say :rolleyes:

Rissa, this time I must say that I understand where your troll remark was coming from, but I find it an inappropriate and insensitive conclusion to jump to. The OP has in fact posted at least one or two *substantial* replies in this thread since the original. How involved does he have to stay for how long (when the majority seem so hostile to his viewpoint), in order to convince people he's not a troll??

I think (because of some actual trolling situations) we are starting to develop a culture in here that whenever we see someone expressing a topic that we don't like, or a viewpoint that we find offensive, we reflexively start calling them trolls. I find that trend alarming.

Of *course* when someone says something you don't like, it's comforting to think "well, maybe he's just a troll and I don't have to really care about him or what he says"...but let's stop saying it out loud, shall we?

[Annika L]

Rissa
I did go back to his OP. In fact, I took his exact words when I state what his question was at the beginning. He used a question mark...hello...lol

Tenni, obviously rhetorical questions do not require answers (by definition of a rhetorical question). To pretend that they are actual questions is just a silly tactic for justifying mounting a soapbox of one's own.

[tenni]

"I see quite a few guys going through tough times since coming out about being "bi" to their spouses.
I just think that is the biggest mistake a guy can ever make.
(just my personal opinion, please don't tar and feather me for having an opinion)
The chances of having the "perfect" spouse that has the mental capacity to take that revelation for what it is instead of taking it as a personal attack... well lets just assume you are looking for one in 40 billion, and the chances of that person being YOUR spouse are worse than your chances at playing the lottery.

Having that said, then what?????

THAT is the *big* issue that seems to be at hand... what *do* you do?"

Annika L
I truly respect your thoughts. I find it interesting that you read the question(s) as rhetorical and I do not. He does go on to describe his situation and what he has decided. I can now see how that explanation might make you see it as rhetorical. However, the value of the thread might have been to discuss the situation where a biguy married to a straight woman decides not to disclose. What is he to do? It is a difficult situation to be in. As has been written it is a huge gamble and the results are variable. I also wonder if the age/length of marriage of the couple is a factor. It seems that this may be a more difficult situation for bimen married to straight women when both are over say 40 -45 than those in their 20's. I would add that many biguys in this situation are not looking for an emotional relationship with men. Some may be in a more transitional experimental stage while others compartmentize this aspect of their life. That is not to say that some do not struggle with their decision not to disclose.

As to the OP expressing his opinion, he was most definitely tarred and feathered for daring to raise the issue and expressing his opinion. As we see, to the point, of accusing him of being a troll. How sad. So much for being a warm and welcoming place for bisexual men to open up. Maybe, he didn't express his thoughts in suitable bisexual.com standards? Maybe, he should have filled out form 1A when he filed form 1D instead?...lol ( I know...I'm such a dink..bad tenni :)

[wildwestgoob]

Rissa, this time I must say that I understand where your troll remark was coming from, but I find it an inappropriate and insensitive conclusion to jump to. The OP has in fact posted at least one or two *substantial* replies in this thread since the original. How involved does he have to stay for how long (when the majority seem so hostile to his viewpoint), in order to convince people he's not a troll??

I think (because of some actual trolling situations) we are starting to develop a culture in here that whenever we see someone expressing a topic that we don't like, or a viewpoint that we find offensive, we reflexively start calling them trolls. I find that trend alarming.

Of *course* when someone says something you don't like, it's comforting to think "well, maybe he's just a troll and I don't have to really care about him or what he says"...but let's stop saying it out loud, shall we?

Thank you, in fact that *IS* why I am not posting a reply to EVERY post here in this thread, as i see them, MOST do not deserve acknowledgment.
I try my best to not respond to thoughtless tripe.

[rissababynta]

Thank you, in fact that *IS* why I am not posting a reply to EVERY post here in this thread, as i see them, MOST do not deserve acknowledgment.
I try my best to not respond to thoughtless tripe.

Then why open things up by saying that opinions are welcome? Everyone knows, especially when you post about a controversial topic, that there will be some mud flying. You can't tell me you didn't expect that.

[tenni]

Did you look at when he joined this site?

Everyone doesn't know what the ol timers think that they know. The door is not closed on any topic...is it?

Opinions were welcomed but he asked not to be tarred and feathered for having his opinion.


Then why open things up by saying that opinions are welcome? Everyone knows, especially when you post about a controversial topic, that there will be some mud flying. You can't tell me you didn't expect that.

[rissababynta]

Rissa, this time I must say that I understand where your troll remark was coming from, but I find it an inappropriate and insensitive conclusion to jump to. The OP has in fact posted at least one or two *substantial* replies in this thread since the original. How involved does he have to stay for how long (when the majority seem so hostile to his viewpoint), in order to convince people he's not a troll??

I think (because of some actual trolling situations) we are starting to develop a culture in here that whenever we see someone expressing a topic that we don't like, or a viewpoint that we find offensive, we reflexively start calling them trolls. I find that trend alarming.

Of *course* when someone says something you don't like, it's comforting to think "well, maybe he's just a troll and I don't have to really care about him or what he says"...but let's stop saying it out loud, shall we?

It was not an inappropriate or insensitive comment. Far too many trolls do exactly what I stated and I put down my thoughts about it. I didn't say "he's a troll he's a troll, light the torches!"

If people's thoughts and opinions are no longer ok around here let me know. I've been contemplating leaving for some time lately anyway.

[wildwestgoob]

Indeed, and if there is some actual "thought" obviously brought to the table, then YES, "debate" or conversation is acceptable, but as Tenni so aptly pointed out, I was not asking for your permission nor asking anyone to justify or quantify "cheating".

As pointed out by Tenni a few post up, that was not the main question.

Unfortunately, some folks saw this as a randy opportunity to wage a holy war against "cheaters" in general, with most offering no intelligent insight.

I said "most"... there are about a dozen posts out of 150 so far, that are actually insightful if not helpful.

"mud slinging" as you admit to, is never a helpful solution to a difficult situation.

I choose to look for, and will respond more often to answers rather than accusations.

But thats just *me*.

[wildwestgoob]

"I see quite a few guys going through tough times since coming out about being "bi" to their spouses.
I just think that is the biggest mistake a guy can ever make.
(just my personal opinion, please don't tar and feather me for having an opinion)
The chances of having the "perfect" spouse that has the mental capacity to take that revelation for what it is instead of taking it as a personal attack... well lets just assume you are looking for one in 40 billion, and the chances of that person being YOUR spouse are worse than your chances at playing the lottery.

Having that said, then what?????

THAT is the *big* issue that seems to be at hand... what *do* you do?"

... He does go on to describe his situation and what he has decided. ... However, the value of the thread might have been to discuss the situation where a biguy married to a straight woman decides not to disclose. What is he to do? It is a difficult situation to be in. As has been written it is a huge gamble and the results are variable. I also wonder if the age/length of marriage of the couple is a factor. It seems that this may be a more difficult situation for bimen married to straight women when both are over say 40 -45 than those in their 20's. I would add that many biguys in this situation are not looking for an emotional relationship with men. Some may be in a more transitional experimental stage while others compartmentalize this aspect of their life. That is not to say that some do not struggle with their decision not to disclose.

As to the OP expressing his opinion, he was most definitely tarred and feathered for daring to raise the issue and expressing his opinion. As we see, to the point, of accusing him of being a troll. How sad. So much for being a warm and welcoming place for bisexual men to open up. Maybe, he didn't express his thoughts in suitable bisexual.com standards? Maybe, he should have filled out form 1A when he filed form 1D instead?...lol ( I know...I'm such a dink..bad tenni :)

Again, trying to bring the topic back to where it was intended.
Seems as tho the prevailing "thought" , if you could call it that, is if you are a married closeted bi guy, then you are just STUCK with that, sit down, shut up, and hide yourself.

It's not about to cheat or not to cheat, as so many have degraded it to.

This is about "what do you DO if you are reasonably sure that your spouse is gonna flip out and go postal on you" when/if she is made aware of your being "bi" ????

IF you keep your "bi-ness" online, that seems fine to some, but then to others it is just as bad to "cheat" online as it is in the flesh.

If you keep your sexuality to yourself, and never tell anyone, then what have you accomplished other than years of repressed behavior which as we all should know is terribly unhealthy to the point of many folks taking their own life.

So go get therapy... yeah right.... and tell the wifey you are going to see a shrink WHY?

You see, to many of us married, closeted, bi guys, this IS indeed a NO-win situation.

And to THAT end, I started this topic, and unfortunately, should have just not posted anything about my own private life, as apparently, I am again in the minority as to what is acceptable to the general public. Nothing new there. Not that I care either, but just should have known better than to include personal details.

Just be aware folks, any posts in this thread that include the word "cheat" in it are going largely ignored by myself and many others.
Those comments are not helpful or productive to this conversation.
Period.


Next !

[mikey3000]

You forgot about the guy who's wife wants him to get chemically castrated cause she no longer enjoys sex. That was rich!!!

I'm sure we'll visit this topic again, because it is a very sensitive yet important discussion. WWG, I still do see your point. Some here don't, but many many others do agree with you.

Good luck and don't run off now!!! We need more discussions like this.

Cheers.

[wildwestgoob]

:eek: Yeah, I gotta say, the chemical castration has to be the best of the worst ideas ever in the history of mankind...

Of course, in Egyptian times they had what are known as "eunuchs" (spelling?)
Basically a male nanny who was castrated (at birth?) so that the "man" of the house would know for sure that there was no funny business going on with his wife while he was away at war or whatever...

I would like to THINK we have progressed a little as a society. But apparently not !
:rolleyes:

[wildwestgoob]

You'd be ok with it, but apparently are not interested in posting about anything else.

As stated before... largely ignored.

[mikey3000]

Zzzzzzz.....

[wildwestgoob]

:bigrin:

Zzzzzzz.....:bigrin:

Now *that's* funny !

[rissababynta]

You forgot about the guy who's wife wants him to get chemically castrated cause she no longer enjoys sex. That was rich!!!

I'm sure we'll visit this topic again, because it is a very sensitive yet important discussion. WWG, I still do see your point. Some here don't, but many many others do agree with you.

Good luck and don't run off now!!! We need more discussions like this.

Cheers.

Yeah...well...that was kind of bizarre...Never heard anything like that in my life.

[rissababynta]

You'd be ok with it, but apparently are not interested in posting about anything else.

As stated before... largely ignored.

It was not largely ignored if you responded ;)

[wildwestgoob]

:rolleyes:
I said "largely" not "completely".... I admit it SHOULD have been "completely" ignored... but alas, in a moment of weakness.... lol

[wildwestgoob]

So, let me get this straight. You welcome opinions, as long as they are ones you agree with. But, if they are challenged, you won't defend, you'll just ignore? Really? No wonder you have problems. If this is how you approach problems then it's no wonder that you are stuck without a solution.

Pasa

Those are not *my* words, they are yours.
I never said I welcome opinions as long as I agree with them.

I said "Just be aware folks, any posts in this thread that include the word "cheat" in it are going largely ignored by myself and many others.
Those comments are not helpful or productive to this conversation.
Period."


"CHEATING" or lack thereof is not the topic of this thread, so yes, I will largely IGNORE those comments.

[tenni]

3. Life isn't fair. I fully realize that it sucks, and sucks hard. But, the measure of a man is how he deals with adversity, and how he treats those around him when the chips are down. Unfair? Sure. Does that excuse acting in an unethical manner? The sort of man you are determines the answer to that question.


Pasa buddy
Think of this as a sports activity
Here are the rules of discussion. Accept the following:
1/ the married biguys have decided not to disclose their bisexuality
2/ What do they do now?

I think that your third point is the only comment that fits the rules.

Now, it is true that life is not fair. Is this adversary or who you are? This isn't about anyone else but the person who is bisexual. Focus on him.

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD
"my question is pertaining to marriage and marriage is part of the OP and the way that cheating is being defined as a moral decision.... IE is cheating morally right or morally wrong in a marriage relationship and does the player have a moral obligation to inform their partner"

I would write to you that is your interpretation of the OP's idea. The OP does not refer to morality. The OP questions whether it is a good solution for a married bisexual man to disclose his sexuality to a straight spouse. His opinion is that it is not a good decision but a mistake to disclose your bisexuality as the reality of a straight female spouse having the ability to take this disclosure as not being a personal attack on her is very small. No where did he state that there was a moral delimna for him. His personal conscience rather than religious dogma led him to this position.

The real question of this entire thread has been polluted. The question or discussion point of this thread was if the married bisexual man does not disclose to his wife what should he do then? Those whose own morality told them that his decision about disclosure was wrong have imposed that the thread is about morality when it is not. They have not really dealt with the purpose of the thread at all. We have spent our energy on arguing a point that is irrelevant to the question of the thread. As I have written, I'm baffled by the blind bigotry and attempts to impose some peoples' personal morality on to all married biguys who are married to straight women.

"ok just so I am clear..... marriage which is mentioned in the bible and the bible is over 2000 year old.... is a legal arrangement and not a religious one ???? joined in the eyes of god....?????

yet you use a recent arrangement to define marriage as a legal arrangement....????? same sex marriage argument...."

If that is your belief that marriage is a religious rather than legal arrangement, you are entitled to it. Then there is no need for you to get a marriage license from the state if you get married. Report back on how many priests agree to provide a religious ceremony without your marriage license from the State. It is not relevant to me or the OP of this thread. However, it is my understanding that marriage as we know it today was established as a legal arrangement for the upper classes of Europe during the middle ages to deal with land rights. Peasants did not formalize their union with legal documents outlining land agreements as they had none. Marriage is not about being joined in the eyes of a god as much as it is a legal arrangement today. Therefore, in my country our Charter of Rights and Freedom in our constitution has clarified that minorities such as those of the same sex may not be discriminated and prevented from marrying...LEGALLY. However, if someone that the State has been granted legal rights to marry people and does not wish to perform the legal ceremony due to religious beliefs they do not have to. Religion is one of the factors that may not be discriminated against a minority by the majority as well as such things as disability.

I give up

you brought up morality tenni, the same way you have done in a few other threads...... you are the one that brought up the religious aspect as well....... I merely asked for clarification from you on something you refered to.... and once again, you side step the question.......


back to the OP tho.....

again, my issues is with the lack of respect shown in the relationship..... how can a person know what their partner will think or how they will react, until they talk to them about it.....until they *come out of the closet * and be honest with their partner about things

what appears to be a common occurrence in threads like this is the view point that if a bi male wants sex, it will happen... there is no if's buts or maybes... and there is no * tell the partner * option..... and there is sure as hell no * I will abstain from sex *.. option

so I really do question the validity of threads like this when it becomes clear after a few pages that the goal of the thread is simply to enforce the viewpoint that males must have their sex and the means justifies the end.....

I say that cos of the common reoccuring theme of bi male / straight wife.....
and a few times where I have read threads, when the straight wife has been attacked cos the bi male has stated, the male has no interest in playing the field of his own free will, even if his wife has given permission for him to be with another

we also have a reoccuring theme of * I am bi and male, how do I get / make / push my wife into accepting bisexuality and becoming part of it...*....

and once again, we see the one sided point of view.... the males....

so really I guess at the end of the end... the correct response to the OP would be this

* do what ever you want, blame your wife for it, have your sex, and when the shit hits the fan, and you get a divorce, blame your wife for not being understanding, and being selfish, then go and get married again.....
your wife doesn't need to be talked with, she just needs to smile, nod and accept that you are bi, therefore your rules apply, and she needs to get with the program and like it... *

and all I can say to that.... is I am a bi guy, with a straight partner.... and yes, marriage is on the cards and yeah, even before marriage, I have stated of my own choice, that I do not wish to play the field for the sake of sex... cos my partner matters......

and as a parting thought, a old joke that is starting to appear to not be a joke but the truth

where are there more lesbians and solo mothers in the world than married bi males ????

cos lesbians and solo mothers don't fuck assholes, they married them!!!!!

[mikey3000]

where are there more lesbians and solo mothers in the world than married bi males ????

cos lesbians and solo mothers don't fuck assholes, they married them!!!!!

LOL!!! Ldd, even for you that was pretty sad. Good God man, you put your women on such high pedistals that I prey Twyla never fucks up on anything. You make it sound like women never ever make mistakes. Even though a few have admitted it here, you have never once reamed a woman out for cheating. Why is that? If and when you two ever do get to be together, I truly wish you both the success that you deserve. I really do.

Classic.

[Long Duck Dong]

LOL!!! Ldd, even for you that was pretty sad. Good God man, you put your women on such high pedistals that I prey Twyla never fucks up on anything. You make it sound like women never ever make mistakes. Even though a few have admitted it here, you have never once reamed a woman out for cheating. Why is that? If and when you two ever do get to be together, I truly wish you both the success that you deserve. I really do.

Classic.

I put nobody on any pedestal, cos I know its a long way down.....and twyla knows already, that I understand things far better than i let on..... and if I think highly of my partners, well I would rather be guilty of having a lot of respect for my partners, than fuck all respect....

as for making mistakes, we all make mistakes, nobody is perfect..... but there is no sense in sitting here pointing out the mistakes people make as a lot of people are close minded to their mistakes, but happy to point out the errors and issues in others......

as I have posted, I stayed with a cheating partner.... and in this site, I got called a fool for doing it...... and here I am in a thread about acts of infidelity, getting told I am not understanding enuf of a persons situation or needs....... cos I do not support infidelity or dishonesty.......

interesting that, I am wrong for staying with a cheating partner, but also wrong for not supporting others need to cheat.......

but thats why I say things like respect for your partner, they have the right to a informed decision... and I get told, no, the risk of losing a partner is too high, therefore cheating is justified

I really have to ask, why the double standards, the thread is about bi males, and straight females, and justifying the right to roam...
but here is a bi male that is with a straight female and again, choosing not to play the field.... and getting judged to hell and back

is it cos it was a bi male that was not cheating on a straight female
is it cos there is a person saying I love you, and proving it
is it because there is a bi male that is not putting sex up there with essential needs such as air, food and water.....
is it cos there is a bi male that is looking at the basis of a solid marriage and taking it very seriously......
it is cos there is a bi male that is looking at the straight females opinions as equal to his in all respects.....
is it cos there is a bi male that is putting female on equal footing

or could it simply be, that I am not saying, I am bi, I want sex, therefore all other opinions are null and void.......

as for females not making mistakes..... lol I know a lot of females that have made mistakes..... but very few of them use the excuse of * I am bi, therefore I have a legit right to cheat on my partners and not tell them *

[tenni]

LDD
I answered what I could answer, sorry if I failed you. I'm such a disappointment.:(

Yes, I introduced the term morality in post 9 after 7 posts previous to my post had made a moral judgment about the OP and those judgments had nothing to do with the thread topic. Post 7 uses the word "truth" and states that there has been a site moral decision.(use of the word "Our opinion"). Later as the off topic moral judgments about being "wrong" continued, I introduced the meaning of morality.

Your post 163, as the last post is also way off topic. You seem to be obsessed with this moral concept about cheating and can not stay on topic. I don't read anything constructive to say about the actual purpose of this thread in your last post?

[rissababynta]

LOL!!! Ldd, even for you that was pretty sad. Good God man, you put your women on such high pedistals that I prey Twyla never fucks up on anything. You make it sound like women never ever make mistakes. Even though a few have admitted it here, you have never once reamed a woman out for cheating. Why is that? If and when you two ever do get to be together, I truly wish you both the success that you deserve. I really do.

Classic.

I think a lot of why he has never reamed a woman out for cheating is because no woman here (as far as I've seen) has sat here and said that it should be ok for them to go play behind their spouses back simply because they are bi and have needs. If any did, I'm sure LDD would disagree with them as well, as would I.

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD
I answered what I could answer, sorry if I failed you. I'm such a disappointment.:(

Yes, I introduced the term morality in post 9 after 7 posts previous to my post had made a moral judgment about the OP and those judgments had nothing to do with the thread topic. Post 7 uses the word "truth" and states that there has been a site moral decision.(use of the word "Our opinion"). Later as the off topic moral judgments about being "wrong" continued, I introduced the meaning of morality.

Your post 163, as the last post is also way off topic. You seem to be obsessed with this moral concept about cheating and can not stay on topic. I don't read anything constructive to say about the actual purpose of this thread in your last post?

I am not worried at all about morality or the moral aspects of cheating..... I have said that a number of times....

the issue I have, is that partners are suddenly not worthy of respect and consideration cos of sex... we bitch about homophobia, bi phobia and the treatment of the LGBT as second rate people.... but we seem to have no issues with treating our partners as second rate people if it interferes with us getting laid........ thats my issue....

[mikey3000]

I think a lot of why he has never reamed a woman out for cheating is because no woman here (as far as I've seen) has sat here and said that it should be ok for them to go play behind their spouses back simply because they are bi and have needs. If any did, I'm sure LDD would disagree with them as well, as would I.

So you honestly think that cheating is just a man thing? Really? A number of women have admitted to cheating (some even repeatedly) all through out this board, and no one has attacked them. Why not? Cause they sound remorseful? Right.

[tenni]

Pretty good at least you are on topic Pasa.

Would wanking to gay porn be ok in your books?

Mikey
I don't give a fuck about all diversionary troll like cheat'n wacko fanatics who post here. Don't encourage the fuckers..they're perverts I tell ya...lol

[tenni]

Pasa
Maybe bi porn....lol Hun I was just looking at the women. It is all the store had......lol

[Annika L]

:eek: OMG, have I actually witnessed a group of individuals on this site truly resolving a semantic dispute, and trying to move forward on a topic of disagreement?? I'm so impressed!

I do have to say, goob, that you were the first to use the word "cheat" on this thread. Once that word is out there, its definition is open to discussion. And if "cheat" is a valid verb to discuss, then it's a short step to "cheater" as "someone who cheats".

I truly don't understand all the sensitivity about that word...if online forums were operating in the 1800s wild west, some goob would have posted something proudly proclaiming to be a great card cheat, and boasting that he could write a book about how to cheat and get away with it, except that everyone would learn his tactics, and cheaters everywhere would be out of luck...and he'd urge others to cheat at cards, saying that playing honestly is for suckers. Yes, some would still write in saying "you shouldn't do that...it's unfair to honest folk"...and said goob would still write back saying "I don't give a damn what you people think...it benefits me to cheat at cards, so I'm gonna do it, and if you don't like it, tough!" But at least he'd be being honest with himself about it.

[rissababynta]

So you honestly think that cheating is just a man thing? Really? A number of women have admitted to cheating (some even repeatedly) all through out this board, and no one has attacked them. Why not? Cause they sound remorseful? Right.

At what point did I say anything remotely like that? I said to my understanding, as far as I've seen, no women have sat here and said that they cheat and it's perfectly ok to do so with the justification of that they are bi. How you came to the conclusion you came to in this post is beyond me, but you just really made me sit here and go "uh...what?"

[Long Duck Dong]

So you honestly think that cheating is just a man thing? Really? A number of women have admitted to cheating (some even repeatedly) all through out this board, and no one has attacked them. Why not? Cause they sound remorseful? Right.

did you miss the thread where a female admitted to cheating and did get judged... you know.... the one you were posting in... that was also the one that I was refering to them cheating..... and tenni was busy telling everybody that morality was religion based.....

wait.... with the exception of the female talking about cheating..... it sounds like a mirror of this one.....

it was the thread about cheaters giving reasons for cheating started by a lady..... ..remember it now ?????

[rissababynta]

did you miss the thread where a female admitted to cheating and did get judged... you know.... the one you were posting in... that was also the one that I was refering to them cheating..... and tenni was busy telling everybody that morality was religion based.....

wait.... with the exception of the female talking about cheating..... it sounds like a mirror of this one.....

it was the thread about cheaters giving reasons for cheating started by a lady..... ..remember it now ?????

See? I don't remember seeing that one (for all I know I could have commented too) but thank you for bringing it up.

[Long Duck Dong]

I think you were away for that week......

it was around the same time there were 3 threads created,
one was asking for cheaters to tell their story and give their reasons
another was mikey telling his story
and there was tennis thread about morality and religion

it was the one dealing with cheaters and asking them to share their stories....that is the one I am referring to.... and I think it may have been csrkate that started it, I can not remember

I know you threw in some comments including one of surprise that the issue was still going on..... tenni was still arguing that morality is religion based and that we needed to put aside the moral judgement of cheaters..... and mikey was talking about the differing aspects of relationships and view points in regards to cheating and the reasoning..... and I was still stating that my issue is the lack of respect for the partner and getting told I was not being understanding of the cheaters reasons or circumstance....

[tenni]

Lets remember that IsItAllOverMyFace practises such sweet and deeply intimate, interpersonal relationships by going to adult bookstores and bath houses and sometimes set up a private gloryhole at home. Walk in, unzip, unload, cum and go! I love to have my mouth used by a group of men and be their personal cocksucker and swallow every drop!

Moral -Right or Wrong behaviour?
Point-Guys who live in glass houses should throw slurs. (say some)
Counterpoint- Ya but he's single and doesn't have a partner
Point- Ya but still depraved sick fuck who can not develop a personal positive relationship with other humans. Treats them like meat (say some)



LongDuckDong and Rissa-Keep in mind that Mikey3000 did cheat on his wife for a long time with a man on the side before telling his wife about how he's bisexual and having sex with male fuck buddies on the side, and then he forced her to allow him to have an open relationship like some bisexuals do unfortunately. :rolleyes:

[Long Duck Dong]

Lets remember that IsItAllOverMyFace practises such sweet and deeply intimate, interpersonal relationships by going to adult bookstores and bath houses and sometimes set up a private gloryhole at home. Walk in, unzip, unload, cum and go! I love to have my mouth used by a group of men and be their personal cocksucker and swallow every drop!

Moral -Right or Wrong behaviour?
Point-Guys who live in glass houses should throw slurs. (say some)
Counterpoint- Ya but he's single and doesn't have a partner
Point- Ya but still depraved sick fuck who can not develop a personal positive relationship with other humans. Treats them like meat (say some)

and your point is tenni...... cos thats reading like a personal attack to me.....

btw, can you hear that echo of yours tenni, about a off topic post and getting the thread back on topic......

I fail to see how a single male, sucking cocks has anything to do with the *morality of infidelity or respect of partners *... unless you are gonna arguing that he is sucking off married guys that are not out to their partners and therefore cheating on their partners..... in which case can you please prove that...... or in your own words * stop posting things that have nothing to do with the OP topic *

[Long Duck Dong]

LongDuckDong and Rissa-Keep in mind that Mikey3000 did cheat on his wife for a long time with a man on the side before telling his wife about how he's bisexual and having sex with male fuck buddies on the side, and then he forced her to allow him to have an open relationship like some bisexuals do unfortunately. :rolleyes:

yeah I am aware of mikey.... I did read the things he has posted....and yeah its reflected in some of his opinions and posts....

[rissababynta]

I think you were away for that week......

it was around the same time there were 3 threads created,
one was asking for cheaters to tell their story and give their reasons
another was mikey telling his story
and there was tennis thread about morality and religion

it was the one dealing with cheaters and asking them to share their stories....that is the one I am referring to.... and I think it may have been csrkate that started it, I can not remember

I know you threw in some comments including one of surprise that the issue was still going on..... tenni was still arguing that morality is religion based and that we needed to put aside the moral judgement of cheaters..... and mikey was talking about the differing aspects of relationships and view points in regards to cheating and the reasoning..... and I was still stating that my issue is the lack of respect for the partner and getting told I was not being understanding of the cheaters reasons or circumstance....

Oooo now I remember this. I thought that Tenni had started that thread. Sheesh, my attention span on this site is slipping lately...

[rissababynta]

Lets remember that IsItAllOverMyFace practises such sweet and deeply intimate, interpersonal relationships by going to adult bookstores and bath houses and sometimes set up a private gloryhole at home. Walk in, unzip, unload, cum and go! I love to have my mouth used by a group of men and be their personal cocksucker and swallow every drop!

Moral -Right or Wrong behaviour?
Point-Guys who live in glass houses should throw slurs. (say some)
Counterpoint- Ya but he's single and doesn't have a partner
Point- Ya but still depraved sick fuck who can not develop a personal positive relationship with other humans. Treats them like meat (say some)

If he is hurting himself by being a "depraved sick fuck"...sad as that would be, he is not imposing his sickness on another individual whom he supposedly cares about.

If people get off on things that others consider to be "sick" then that is there business. The second you get another individual involved against their will, then that is just wrong.

[mikey3000]

If he is hurting himself by being a "depraved sick fuck"...sad as that would be, he is not imposing his sickness on another individual whom he supposedly cares about.

If people get off on things that others consider to be "sick" then that is there business. The second you get another individual involved against their will, then that is just wrong.

And lets not forget that ISITALLOVERMYFACE is soliciting married guys, thus facilitating and approving of cheating, whether he is in a relationship or not. Me caring for another man, and having a RELATIONSHIP with him is hardly the same as running a cum swap shop from my back door, thank you very much. Me = one man in a loving relationship. Isitallovermyface= hundreds of men cumming all over his face, anonymously at his back door late at night and leaving. It that really the same? And for the record, I didn't force anything on anyone. You really are a looser Isitallovermy face. I thought you might have learned something over the past little while, but obviously not. It's guys like you who give Bisexuals a bad rep. So spare me the insults, comming from you, they are nothing but compliments.

[BLCHGK777]

2. Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person.


This thread has gotten WAY off topic and now stones are being thrown.

[wildwestgoob]

2. Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person.


This thread has gotten WAY off topic and now stones are being thrown.

I agree, this is nothing but an effort in futility... windbags airing themselves out...

If some ADMIN would PLEASE do their job and end this "discussion" I am sure there are some here who would readily agree NOT to discuss ANYTHING with some of these posters ever again.

[mikey3000]

Hey, if someone pulls me into the bullshit, I fight back. As you can see, I said nothing in this thread about Isitallovermyface. If he wants to fling shit, he bloody well better learn to take it too.

[wildwestgoob]

No need to let yourself be drug down to his level Mikey.

[tenni]

Dude
I was showing you that you and the others were being moralistic judges of other people's lives...caught ya...:bigrin: I don't believe in what I wrote about your lifestyle (note the words in bracket...'some say"). My belief is that we each live our lives as we can to the best of our abilities and life limitations. If a married biman finds himself living under certain conditions and decides not to disclose to his partner. That is his decision. Yes, disclosing is best but it can not happen every single situation. Just as you have decided to have sex in glory holes etc. That is your business but some one will judge you as a deviant sicko. They are out there.

You gave all your reasons why it should be acceptable for "YOU" but went on about Mikey's life in a judgmental way. Going so far as to seeking out previous statements that he posted...that took work. You and LDD are acting like fucktards...judging others, making moralistic judgment statements about other bisexuals' choice. LDD has quite a few flaws that he has shown about his own thought processes. He is not anywhere near "normal" in his thought processes sometimes about how to live a life. Mind you he is also right on target (from my perspective) on other aspects. Sorry LDD...live your OWN life. But man you are fuck'n weird in some ways to place yourself in a position to be making judgment statements about cheating. You cheat yourself out of a life that is more normative...abstinence ...ya ..sure(defensive response may be that he doesn't impose this on others that is his choice..yada yada...) Reality is that he seems to have a martyr complex that he needs to fulfill to prove to himself about his own morals being good. I also recall that there are medical reasons why but...come on.. lol Live your OWN life, LDD. Mind your own business. If you were gay..I'd guess that you were acting like an old Queen...lol

STONES HAVE BEEN THROWN SINCE POST 2 ON THIS THREAD.

There ..now I've flamed you..like you flame others...but in a more general broad moralistic prat way..probably a mistake on my part but sometimes....




I have had personal relationships with both men and women in my life and no I did not ever cheat on them when we were in a relationship that we both were monogamous in.

I'm currently single now.

It's a glory hole dude!

Most people there are not looking for love, romance, a deep positive emotional relationship.

It's all about sex.

Sucking cock or being sucked and there's nothing wrong with this because it's all between consenting adults in my own personal home.

I have become friends with some of the men who I have sucked off but the majority just want sex and make no bones about it and there's nothing wrong with that.

Secondly there is nothing wrong with going to bath houses, sex clubs, orgies, and having sex with strangers.

I've noticed when people here write about having or the idea of having a mixed gender orgy or going to mixed gender sex clubs where they have sex with strangers how somehow it's not a horrible thing. :rolleyes:

Tenni don't be such a moralistic prude.

[wildwestgoob]

tenni, you too.... dont reduce your standards to his. :(

[BLCHGK777]

I have yet to see what the point of this thread is now since it has now become a mud sling fest and an attack thread against others.

[rissababynta]

[QUOTE=mikey3000;152964]And lets not forget that ISITALLOVERMYFACE is soliciting married guys, thus facilitating and approving of cheating, whether he is in a relationship or not. QUOTE]

Yeah, I must say that is something I don't agree with also. I feel that if you are single, and have no problem being with a married individual and the spouse doesn't know, that you are voluntarily being a part of hurting an innocent party and you are just as guilty as the unfaithful spouse.

[rissababynta]

Also, in the future, if you are going to make a big stink about people personally attacking others and being rude, it's probably not the best idea to later turn around and call people things like fucktards and losers...;)

[mikey3000]

Tenni, deep breath. Remember what I wrote about gentlemen, that's you. But thanks though ;).

[tenni]

Rissa
If it walks like a fucktard...if it talks like a fuctard...it is a fucktard. As I wrote...stones were thrown from post 2..that was your post. You may not see that post as offensive but it was. Pasa and I had this thread starting to move along as to where it was to go....then people like LDD took it back to flaming and judging.

[wildwestgoob]

Which is why I am once again asking that this thread just be locked down by the admin, it has digressed to the lowest point, farthest from the main point.

Hello?

[rissababynta]

Rissa
If it walks like a fucktard...if it talks like a fuctard...it is a fucktard. As I wrote...stones were thrown from post 2..that was your post. You may not see that post as offensive but it was. Pasa and I had this thread starting to move along as to where it was to go....then people like LDD took it back to flaming and judging.

Well, for one thing people could easily say if it walks and talks like a cheater, but if anyone says that word all of a sudden it's a big issue. I hope you see where I'm going with that.

And as for my first post, I simply said that I'm tired of this shit constantly popping up on this site and that if you want or are going to do it, go ahead but stop acting like it's no big deal. Perhaps people are getting a little too used to everything in the world being sugarcoated...who knows...but in either way I have a feeling that unless anyone says anything other than "Ooo I completely agree with you" somehow, some kind of offense will be found in anyone's posts.

As for this thread being close down, I was praying for that about 100 posts ago. Maybe it will happen soon, maybe even today. Maybe not at all. I think the best way would be to simply stop replying and eventually no one will speak anymore and the thread will be pushed to the back burner.

[rissababynta]

[QUOTE=rissababynta;152982]

How is that a bad thing?

It is not like the other person always knows that they are with someone who is married/partnered.

Even if they are with someone who is partnered and cheating this is not their problem since they are not the person who has decided to cheat on an unknowing spouse or partner.

Have I been with men who were married and cheating? Yes just a few.

Did I feel bad about it? No, I did not know that they were married and cheating until after we had sex.

They did not wear wedding rings and just casually mentioned how they are married to a woman after we'd had sex together.

Even if I theoretically had known that they were cheating on their wife with men it's not like they would somehow stop sleeping with men on the side and stop cheating on their wife if I had lectured them with my morals and values.

As a rule my partner who I have an open relationship with, we do not get with men who are married and cheating on their wives but this is because married men who cheat are usually way more effort than they are worth and the same goes for most bisexual and gay men who are married to women.

Single men are fine though.

Read my post again. You can tell that I was referring to people who knew that the person was married.

[mikey3000]

Especially when said poster openly solicits married men and assures discretion.

[tenni]

Rissa
"As for this thread being close down, I was praying for that about 100 posts ago. Maybe it will happen soon, maybe even today. Maybe not at all. I think the best way would be to simply stop replying and eventually no one will speak anymore and the thread will be pushed to the back burner."

The sad part is that the topic of this thread deserved to be discussed without judgment. (remember it wasn't about cheating per sei and maybe clumsily introduced by a newcomer who didn't know about "these people".) This is not the first time that this condemning behaviour has been exhibited on this site in the past six months. It is as if some posters are set on shutting one aspect of bisexual men down. As I wrote before, it just seems like an injustice to me. I don't wish to be involved in certain aspects of bisexuality or same sex situations. However, I would not in reality go and condemn some bisexual for having to live a different way than I am. If you can not say something positive about how a bisexual lives their life..close your mouth and be silent.* Keep your own morality to yourself. You are censoring other bisexuals.
* (understanding that my condemning of glory holes was to prove the bigotry that some show here when they also may be condemned as all bisexuals may be condemned by some people)

btw I just reflected on my own morality. I would get physically involved with another bisexual man who was married but I certainly would not get involved with a gay or bisexual man married to another man. I don't care if they have permission or not as I consider that cheating. That seems not for me at all. It is everyone's decision who they get involved. That would be mine regardless how someone else sees it.
**bad bisexual man returns to sit in the bad boy corner ...lol

[rissababynta]

Rissa
"As for this thread being close down, I was praying for that about 100 posts ago. Maybe it will happen soon, maybe even today. Maybe not at all. I think the best way would be to simply stop replying and eventually no one will speak anymore and the thread will be pushed to the back burner."

The sad part is that the topic of this thread deserved to be discussed without judgment. (remember it wasn't about cheating per sei and maybe clumsily introduced by a newcomer who didn't know about "these people".) This is not the first time that this behaviour has been exhibited on this site in the past six months. It is as if some posters are set on shutting one aspect of bisexual men down. As I wrote before, it just seems like an injustice to me. I don't wish to be involved in certain aspects of bisexuality or same sex situations. However, I would not in reality go and condemn some bisexual for having to live a different way than I am. If you can not say something positive about how a bisexual lives their life..close your mouth and be silent.* Keep your own morality to yourself. You are censoring other bisexuals.
* (understanding that my condemning of glory holes was to prove the bigotry that some show here when they also may be condemned as all bisexuals may be condemned by some people)

btw I just reflected on my own morality. I would get physically involved with another bisexual man who was married but I certainly would not get involved with a gay or bisexual man married to another man. I don't care if they have permission or not as I consider that cheating. That seems not for me at all. It is everyone's decision who they get involved with. That would be mine regardless how someone else sees it.
**bad bisexual man returns to sit in the bad boy corner ...lol

Tenni, you keep preaching about how people are not open and refuse to understand this "side of male bisexuality," but can you for one second look at everyone elses point of view? Not many people want to be looked at as sex fiends (there are those freaky deaky ones however that don't mind haha), but as bisexuals far too many ignorant people already see us that way. Then you have someone sitting there saying that it is ok for someone to be unfaithful to their partners for the sake of their sexuality...yeah...only makes us look worse. And not for nothing, I hate to say it, but if someone came to this site to just check things out and learn more about bisexuals, this thread just kind of made bisexual males look a bit worse by condoning such a thing, and you guys already have some problems simply because dicks and dicks are not generally seen as highly as tits and tits. As a matter of fact, this is the exact thing that happen. One of the posters in this thread was a newcomer who said right out that she is now freaked out that she can't trust her husband.

[Long Duck Dong]

Rissa
If it walks like a fucktard...if it talks like a fuctard...it is a fucktard. As I wrote...stones were thrown from post 2..that was your post. You may not see that post as offensive but it was. Pasa and I had this thread starting to move along as to where it was to go....then people like LDD took it back to flaming and judging.

oh really????? I have no been posting ..... but I am seeing a lot of tenni v's isitallovermyface.....and insults posted by you.....

do not use me as a excuse for your loss of face, tenni.... cos its not my fingers that are typing the insults that you are using.

[tenni]

Rissa
I do understand the desire for some bisexuals to have the mainstream society see them as acceptable. I do understand some straight partner in a crisis reading thoughts such as mine. What is this site for? Is it for straight partners of bisexuals? Is it for the mainstream society?

As far as how bisexuals are perceived, we only have to look at the discussion in the gay community. They fought and are fighting for equality. The question about the variety of gay people and their sexual practices seems to be discussed on going. Many gay/bi people live a pretty normal life while others participate in sex acts that are not monogomous (with or without a partner's permission).

Some gay people do participate in what mainstream considers degenerate behaviour but that is accepted in gay communities. In fact, they fight for the rights of gay men to have anonymous sex in bathhouses. They claim it as part of their culture.

Bisexuals men married to straight women who have sex outside their marriage is part of the bisexual community whether some bisexuals are offended by it or not. Face reality. Admit that is part of the bisexual choices and that there are reasons why some bisexual married men do this. If life were perfect, they would disclose to their straight partner. Don't be ashamed about who bisexuals are. We are even broader in scope than gay people as far as how we live our life.


Tenni, you keep preaching about how people are not open and refuse to understand this "side of male bisexuality," but can you for one second look at everyone elses point of view? Not many people want to be looked at as sex fiends (there are those freaky deaky ones however that don't mind haha), but as bisexuals far too many ignorant people already see us that way. Then you have someone sitting there saying that it is ok for someone to be unfaithful to their partners for the sake of their sexuality...yeah...only makes us look worse. And not for nothing, I hate to say it, but if someone came to this site to just check things out and learn more about bisexuals, this thread just kind of made bisexual males look a bit worse by condoning such a thing, and you guys already have some problems simply because dicks and dicks are not generally seen as highly as tits and tits. As a matter of fact, this is the exact thing that happen. One of the posters in this thread was a newcomer who said right out that she is now freaked out that she can't trust her husband.

[rissababynta]

Rissa
I do understand the desire for some bisexuals to have the mainstream society see them as acceptable. I do understand some straight partner in a crisis reading thoughts such as mine. What is this site for? Is it for straight partners of bisexuals? Is it for the mainstream society?

As far as how bisexuals are perceived, we only have to look at the discussion in the gay community. They fought and are fighting for equality. The question about the variety of gay people and their sexual practices seems to be discussed on going. Many gay/bi people live a pretty normal life while others participate in sex acts that are not monogomous (with or without a partner's permission).

Some gay people do participate in what mainstream considers degenerate behaviour but that is accepted in gay communities. In fact, they fight for the rights of gay men to have anonymous sex in bathhouses. They claim it as part of their culture.

Bisexuals men married to straight women who have sex outside their marriage is part of the bisexual community whether some bisexuals are offended by it or not. Face reality. Admit that is part of the bisexual choices and that there are reasons why some bisexual married men do this. If life were perfect, they would disclose to their straight partner. Don't be ashamed about who bisexuals are. We are even broader in scope than gay people as far as how we live out life.

Ok find. Faithfulness and respect if something that only straight, gay, and bisexual women generally abide by. Bisexual men are allowed to do what they want.

LOL I would literally PAY to see the conversation between a bi guy cheating on his wife with a guy and trying to talk to her about it when she eventually finds out.

Wife: Why did you do that?!
Husband: I like men.
W: Why didn't you say something?
H: I'd assume that you would be upset and leave me.
W: So you just go behind my back anyway?
H: Honey, you don't understand. I'm a bisexual man, those rules of respect don't apply to me.
W: ...I'll be at my mothers dickwad.

[tenni]

Rissa
Well, not exactly. I don't think that you are getting my point or maybe this biguy straight wife scenario is more important to you. I am responding to the issue that I think is at the root of the fanatical rejection of part of the bisexual community.

In the bisexual community, we have a wide range of expressing our sexuality. Conflicts and difficulties surface. There are contentious issues within the community over morality and how a bisexual deals with standard heterosexual perception about faithfulness and fidelity. In a perfect world a married bisexual man would feel comfortable enough to disclose his sexuality to his straight partner. This is not always possible for a variety of reasons. We, as bisexuals, strive to improve the perception of bisexuals as seen by straight and gay people. We acknowledge that there are differences. We support our brothers who are married to straight wives and open our minds to hearing their stories in a non judgmental way. Hopefully, these bisexuals will feel comfortable to resolve their delimna and one day be able to disclose to their partners.

(something like that)...lol


[QUOTE=rissababynta;153047]Ok find. Faithfulness and respect if something that only straight, gay, and bisexual women generally abide by. Bisexual men are allowed to do what they want.

[rissababynta]

Rissa
Well, not exactly. I don't think that you are getting my point or maybe this biguy straight wife scenario is more important to you. I am responding to the issue that I think is at the root of the fanatical rejection of part of the bisexual community.

In the bisexual community we have a wide range of expressing our sexuality. Conflicts and difficulties surface. There are contentious issues within the community over morality and how a bisexual deals with standard heterosexual perception about faithfulness and fidelity. In a perfect world a married bisexual man would feel comfortable enough to disclose his sexuality to his straight partner. This is not always possible for a variety of reasons. We, as bisexuals, strive to improve the perception of bisexuals as seen by straight and gay people. We acknowledge that there are differences. We support our brothers who are married to straight wives and open our minds to hearing their stories in a non judgmental way. Hopefully, these bisexual will feel comfortable to resolve their delimna and one day be able to disclose to their partners.

(something like that)...lol


[QUOTE=rissababynta;153047]Ok find. Faithfulness and respect if something that only straight, gay, and bisexual women generally abide by. Bisexual men are allowed to do what they want.

Oh come ON...you didn't even CHUCKLE at the little scenario I cooked up with my noodle?!?! Psh...no appreciation around here...

EDIT: anyone else notice my post got all messed up looking or was that just me...

[tenni]

LDD
That comment was rough and I should have expressed it better. I had been warming up for days of reading your closed minded fanatical rants. You are not the only one with counselling training on this site. The fact that you separate your own perspective from what you would say as a counsellor of whatever intrigues me. I see a schism in your thought process via your comments. You are absolutely wonderful in some posts while in others your own personal unusual belief structure shows through. It isn't that I or others are perfect but certainly a person with counselling training knows how to empathize with a person's life situation. I don't see you exhibiting such traits in this area of bisexuality of married biguys married to straight women who resist openness with their bimate. There are hundreds of cases where a married biguy knows that he may not disclose to his wife even though he may want to. These marriages function and love exists between them. The fact that there is a taboo area is sad and not one sided as to why by a long shot.

You decided to take this thread back to your obsessive "cheating" when it was not to be about that. Pasa and I had been working at bringing back on topic. Instead of discussing what a married bi man who decides not to disclose should do, you ranted like a fanatic about cheating and the wife. Certainly a person with counselling training can read posts and stay on topic. Assist in refocusing the group to a more constructive discussion. Focus on the issue at hand and not a pet belief.


oh really????? I have no been posting ..... but I am seeing a lot of tenni v's isitallovermyface.....and insults posted by you.....

do not use me as a excuse for your loss of face, tenni.... cos its not my fingers that are typing the insults that you are using.

[Long Duck Dong]

Rissa
I do understand the desire for some bisexuals to have the mainstream society see them as acceptable. I do understand some straight partner in a crisis reading thoughts such as mine. What is this site for? Is it for straight partners of bisexuals? Is it for the mainstream society?

As far as how bisexuals are perceived, we only have to look at the discussion in the gay community. They fought and are fighting for equality. The question about the variety of gay people and their sexual practices seems to be discussed on going. Many gay/bi people live a pretty normal life while others participate in sex acts that are not monogomous (with or without a partner's permission).

Some gay people do participate in what mainstream considers degenerate behaviour but that is accepted in gay communities. In fact, they fight for the rights of gay men to have anonymous sex in bathhouses. They claim it as part of their culture.

Bisexuals men married to straight women who have sex outside their marriage is part of the bisexual community whether some bisexuals are offended by it or not. Face reality. Admit that is part of the bisexual choices and that there are reasons why some bisexual married men do this. If life were perfect, they would disclose to their straight partner. Don't be ashamed about who bisexuals are. We are even broader in scope than gay people as far as how we live our life.

I accept that cheating happens.... and its not a bi male only aspect

but I have clearly noticed something in this site with a few people and that is, a bone of contention with people like me that question why the partner ( wife ) is not worthy of respect.....

I seriously guestion why people marry if they can not treat their wifes as a equal partner.......
is marriage not the joining of two people in love, with a vow of honour, love, caring and respect.......

that seems to go out the windows when a dick is involved and suddenly its like the wife don't matter, doesn't exist, and is wrong for having a opinion or a point of view....

thats why I do ask, if people are gonna have extramartial affairs etc.... why they believe that they should be respected and supported, when they can not even respect their own partners......

I only need to look at the way I have been got at, for daring to show any ounce of respect for my partner..... and yes, I risked it all.... but I have the opinion that I would rather have nothing than lie to gain something thru means of dishonesty and disrespect.....

sure I have not married.... but I do take the vows seriously.... as twyla can attest...... I often question marriage and the validity of it... and I question my own ability to be a good partner in marriage and provide the love and support for my partner that she should be able to expect as a wife.....

I remember in one thread the remark was made by a person, that they never agreed to go without sex, when they got married... and that kinda shocked me..... and did cause me to question marriage as it stands and that is why I do now ask, WTF do people marry now....and it appears that in a lot of cases, its for a legal / money gain... not cos they love their partner.....

there seems to be a prerequisite now for straight wives to know that when they get married to a bi guy, get ready to agree to the husband to be committed to his dick first, the benefits of the marriage second, and between taking out the garbage, paying the bills and bearing kids, is the wife and god help her if she is not able to spread her legs on demand......

I am different..... I am bi and I am male, but my partners matter..... they are people too..... they have feelings too, and they have rights.....
and I can not help but notice that the bisexual community talks about the rights of the LGBT, but maybe its time we all stop, sit down and look at the rights of the HWM ( husband and wife in marriage )

I do accept that bisexual males have urges and desires, and that sex is not always a possibility ... but i have noticed one thing..... I have NEVER seen a bisexual male, state what his wifes rights are if the bi male is no longer able to have sexual intercourse..... I wonder how many of them would have the same point of view, if their straight wives cheated or took lovers to compensate for the lack of sex......or if they would scream the house down cos their wives are being unfaithful.....

[rissababynta]

So wait a minute, gay and bisexual men who are partnered to men and yet in open relationships that they have consented and agreed to be in with communication and honesty with this spouse/partner are somehow cheating on this said partner in your mind, ethics, morals, or values even though they have agreed to have an open relationship and have agreed that sex with others is not cheating?

Yet men who are bisexual and married/partnered to women who cheat on their wives, lie to them and have sex with men on the side somehow are not cheating at all?

Bud, you have more problems than just your own twisted viewpoints, double standards and shady morals, ethics, and values if you think that when two men agree to an open relationship that no matter who they have sex with besides their partner that it is somehow (in your mind) cheating, yet bisexual men who cheat and lie to a wife who thinks she's in a monogamous relationship and married to a straight man are somehow fine and not cheating at all. :rolleyes:

Like Rissa said, being bisexual does not excuse someone from lying and cheating or somehow give them a right to lie and cheat on a partner.

This is one of the many reasons that my partner and I agree that men who are married to women are just too much bother and not worth the effort.

I pretty much thought the same thing, but I decided for my own sanity's sake, I was going to let it go.

Now I'm off to dye my hair. Later all.

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD
That comment was rough and I should have expressed it better. I had been warming up for days of reading your closed minded fanatical rants. You are not the only one with counselling training on this site. The fact that you separate your own perspective from what you would say as a counsellor of whatever intrigues me. I see a schism in your thought process via your comments. You are absolutely wonderful in some posts while in others your own personal unusual belief structure shows through. It isn't that I or others are perfect but certainly a person with counselling training knows how to empathize with a person's life situation. I don't see you exhibiting such traits in this area of bisexuality of married biguys married to straight women who resist openness with their bimate. There are hundreds of cases where a married biguy knows that he may not disclose to his wife even though he may want to. These marriages function and love exists between them. The fact that there is a taboo area is sad and not one sided as to why by a long shot.

stop calling me a fanatical tenni....... I am open minded.... very open minded....

but I do not support dishonesty and lies...... that is something that no counsellor, therapist etc, is gonna support.... cos its the reason a lot of people end up in therapy and counselling...

my unsual belief structure ??? what the fact I beleive a partner deserves respect ???? the fact that your should not treat your partner like a sex slave ??? the fact that * i need to suck a cock * is hardly a viable reason to fuck your marriage and screw up ya wife and kids.....

I was never aware that that is a unusual belief, I thought more people believed in honesty in relationships and marriage, fuck I must be on the wrong planet

as I have said many times before...... I seperate my personal and my professional view points, in this site....... and I am retired as a counsellor cos of issues with the ethics of counsellor which required me to assist and aide cheating, dishonesty and the breaking of the law, as the client was protected under the privacy act... and I have heard stories that would make the vid * two girls, one cup * look like a sunday school movie.....

also I watched my own family torn apart by infidelity and cheating..... and that is why i am not fucking adamant I will not treat my own wife like shit..... and before you say it, don't...... what happened with my family, have no bearing on my view of others actions.... as there is a family history that I will not reveal, but is not common place in others families, so I view my family very differently

now tenni at the end of the day, I have aided, assisted and supported people in more divorces and marriage dissolutions cos of infidelity, than I care to count ....I have seen the effects on the partners and kids.... and I have buried a few of them as well..... and thats how bad things can get..... so if you think I am a selfish asshole cos I refuse to condone or support infidelity... then yes I will be a selfish asshole.... its better than being another shoulder at the funeral of a person that was utterly destroyed by a marriage break up, broken family and the revelation of a secret that I will not post in this site..... all cos of unfaithfullness and infidelity

[tenni]

"Oh come ON...you didn't even CHUCKLE at the little scenario I cooked up with my noodle?!?! Psh...no appreciation around here...

EDIT: anyone else notice my post got all messed up looking or was that just me..."

It might have been me Rissa. I was editing and maybe our wires got crossed..lol

sigh..no I didn't see the humour because I see it from a different perspective. I could create the scenario

Rissa version

Wife: Why did you do that?!
Husband: I like men.
W: Why didn't you say something?
H: I'd assume that you would be upset and leave me.
W: So you just go behind my back anyway?
H: Honey, you don't understand. I'm a bisexual man, those rules of respect don't apply to me.
W: ...I'll be at my mothers dickwad.

tenni's version

Wife: Why did you do that?!
Husband: I would have told you but you keep turning away from me. Gee hun...we haven't had sex for five years. I asked you to go to counselling but you refuse. I didn't realize that I was attracted to men until about four years ago. I know that your family hates fags and your dad has a big mouth. If they find out about this at work, I'll get fired. I know that you tell you parents everything about our marriage. I know that you won't even experiment sexually and never have.

W: Why didn't you say something?

H: I tried many times but I was afraid that you would not understand. Don't you remember when I suggested that we watch some pornos together nine years ago. I wanted to put a bi porn in but you said no that was digusting and you would not have anything to do with it. You never wanted to hear about it again. You threatened to leave me if I kept bringing this up back then.

W: So you just go behind my back anyway?

H: What did you think that I was doing without sex for five years? I'm only 45. Honey, you don't understand and sex has never been an area that we could talk about. I know that you had a bad time with sex before we were married. You keep saying that it isn't you and that you are fine. I'm a pervert for keep bringing up sex in our marriage.
W: ...I'll be at my mothers dickwad.

[tenni]

HornedUpRam.

I know that my perspective doesn't fit the gay perspective or a lot of perspectives. I know that it is unusual to think this way. The fact that I won't have anything to do with a partnered male/male arrangement is my personal boundaries. I've got a dick. Both of those guys have a dick. No reason for them to seek my dick too.

male/female
His wife doesn't have a dick. He wants dick. I've got a dick. Ok..I see what he is missing and wants. It makes sense to me...not to you and rissa. Now, if this married bi guy and I decide not to involve any other men...I see it as a kind of closed relationship. If I have a woman as well...still a kind of closed relationship. Much better than being dick 79 as a weekend treat for one of two guys in an open relationship.
*bad bisexual man...goes to corner ..again.

[rissababynta]

"Oh come ON...you didn't even CHUCKLE at the little scenario I cooked up with my noodle?!?! Psh...no appreciation around here...

EDIT: anyone else notice my post got all messed up looking or was that just me..."

It might have been me Rissa. I was editing and maybe our wires got crossed..lol

sigh..no I didn't see the humour because I see it from a different perspective. I could create the scenario

Rissa version

Wife: Why did you do that?!
Husband: I like men.
W: Why didn't you say something?
H: I'd assume that you would be upset and leave me.
W: So you just go behind my back anyway?
H: Honey, you don't understand. I'm a bisexual man, those rules of respect don't apply to me.
W: ...I'll be at my mothers dickwad.

tenni's version

Wife: Why did you do that?!
Husband: I would have told you but you keep turning away from me. Gee hun...we haven't had sex for five years. I asked you to go to counselling but you refuse. I didn't realize that I was attracted to men until about four years ago. I know that your family hates fags and your dad has a big mouth. If they find out about this at work, I'll get fired. I know that you tell you parents everything about our marriage. I know that you won't even experiment sexually and never have.

W: Why didn't you say something?

H: I tried many times but I was afraid that you would not understand. Don't you remember when I suggested that we watch some pornos together nine years ago. I wanted to put a bi porn in but you said no that was digusting and you would not have anything to do with it. You never wanted to hear about it again. You threatened to leave me if I kept bringing this up back then.

W: So you just go behind my back anyway?

H: What did you think that I was doing without sex for five years? I'm only 45. Honey, you don't understand and sex has never been an area that we could talk about. I know that you had a bad time with sex before we were married. You keep saying that it isn't you and that you are fine. I'm a pervert for keep bringing up sex in our marriage.
W: ...I'll be at my mothers dickwad.

LMFAO you have marriage backwards...

Sorry luv, not to be mean, but after THAT scenario, I can't take what you've said about this topic seriously anymore...

[tenni]

LDD
I'm not here to analyse you. Your case is beyond my training. I do see some unusual traits in your posts. All that I ask is that you permit bisexual men married to straight women to discuss things without judgment. Your posts are not supportive. If you are unable to support another biman...keep quiet.

[tenni]

Rissa
I know that you can not. A/ your a woman B/ you are far too early in your marriage to have fallen into that sad scenario. I hope that you never do.

Unfortunately, it is a combination of disfunctional marriages that I have experience with. (not say'n how)

Good you saw the humour of the exageration...lol

Oh...maybe we should start a creative writing thread about disfunctional bi marriages..fiction of course....lol

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD's version

Wife: Why did you do that?!
Husband: I am bisexual, it means that I am attracted and desire some kinds of sexual contact that I am not have with you

W: Why didn't you say something?

H:I thought about it, I really did, but how do you tell your wife that you like to have sex with men

W: So you just go behind my back anyway?
H: I was not sure what you would say about it and I was struggling to deal with it myself

W: so ...... we did not talk about it, you never mentioned it, you just decided that it was easier to fuck around on me....????
H: well hun, I love you but I was horny.....

W:.... so you went and slept with other people and lied to me about where you have been and what you were doing.....
H: but baby, I wanted to talk to you about it I was not sure what to say

W: ok..... what else has you not talked to me about.......
H: well you see I have also been contacting guys on online sites and watching gay / bi porn too........

W: and .... that was going on behind my back....?????
H: well I could not talk to you about it.....

W: when did you try......???
H: many times...... I thought about it while we were in bed.....

W: when you were asking me for sex...... tell me, were you thinking about fucking me, or a guy
H: sometimes you and sometimes a guy

W: so... I am not even the one you think about during sex......
H: well hun, we hardly even had sex now..... as it is

W: well darling, I did carry a few kids, and I do have health issues.......
H: but hun, I like having sex....

W: I noticed.... and you are not picky either..... but why did you lie to me....
H: but hun, its not fair on me, I enjoy sex....

W: ok..... how many people......
H: about 8-9 different guys .....

W: O M F G..... I have been with you for 20 years, you and you alone.....and you have fucked 8-9 other people ??????
H: well hun, I enjoy sex with men.....

W: 8-9 people ????????
H: but darling....

W: you are not listening ...8-9 people that know my husband sexually.... 8-9 people that I do not know that know more about my husband than I do....
H: but hun... I could not talk to you about it

W: am I safe, do I have a sti..... could I have aids....
H: no, I was careful to make sure that I never caught anything and that I only slept with clean males....

W: you risked my health by sleeping with other people, and you think its ok cos you THINK they were clean ????
H: but hun.....

W: give me one good reason why I should not walk out that door with the kids and divorce your ass....
W: cos I love you and you are my wife and mean the world to me

W: I noticed..... you risked my health, our marriage, our future, you risked everything cos you wanted to stick your cock in something....then you tell me you love me and I am your wife.....
H: we have been married for 20 years.... yes you are my wife.....

W: I do not feel like your wife, I feel like a used and betrayed woman that has commited 20 years to a liar and a slut.....
H: but hun, its hard when I can not have sex, and can not talk to you

W: so that gives you the right to fuck around on me, not talk to me.... and then you think you can tell me its my fault cos you can not have sex....???
H: but hun, I am bi, I have needs and desires.....

W: but asshole, I am married to you, I thought I mattered more than your dick...
H: you do matter more than my dick

W: I noticed..... the cheating what cos I matter more than your dick
H: but hun its hard not having sex


now tenni..... see how my version is not blaming the wife

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD
I'm not here to analyse you. Your case is beyond my training. I do see some unusual traits in your posts. All that I ask is that you permit bisexual men married to straight women to discuss things without judgment. Your posts are not supportive. If you are unable to support another biman...keep quiet.

I am a bi male looking at marrying a straight female, tenni.... you may have missed that part...... so I will repeat it.... I am a BI MALE looking at marrying a STRAIGHT female......

A BI MALE marrying a STRAIGHT female !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what is this thread about BI MALES, married to STRAIGHT females

what am I doing ...I AM MARRYING A STRAIGHT FEMALE, I AM A BI MALE

THATS A BI MALE MARRYING A STRAIGHT FEMALE

you know BI MALE and STRAIGHT FEMALE... MARRIAGE

sighs..... I guess I need to shut up..... you have failed to notice that fact in a number of my posts and threads.....

btw tenni are you a BI MALE MARRIED TO A STRAIGHT FEMALE ???

[mikey3000]

LOL!!!!!!!! LDD, stop it!!! You're fucking killing me!!! Do you realize how rediculous you sound. Get over yourself already. You got your ideals, then you follow them. Don't inflict them on others.

This is really getting tedious. Mods? Mods?

[Long Duck Dong]

btw tenni.... the bi male in this thread, needs support.....
what is he and how long do i wait is the name of the thread.......

and mikey.... i love you..... lets hook up :tong:

[mikey3000]

Dude, LDD, you drive me crazy!!! You know I luv chattin with you, just not on cheatin threads.

Now be a good boy. Next time I'm in your part of the world, I'll take you up on your offer. Just don't tell your wife. LOL!!!!!

[darkeyes]

LOL!!!!!!!! LDD, stop it!!! You're fucking killing me!!! Do you realize how rediculous you sound. Get over yourself already. You got your ideals, then you follow them. Don't inflict them on others.

This is really getting tedious. Mods? Mods?

It is all getting really tedious. People are sounding ridiculous. Well over 100 posts too much ridiculous. However, not all of it is down to Duckie by all means. Time to call it a day I think..:)

[Annika L]

Rissa
I know that you can not. A/ your a woman B/ you are far too early in your marriage to have fallen into that sad scenario. I hope that you never do.

Unfortunately, it is a combination of disfunctional marriages that I have experience with. (not say'n how)

Good you saw the humour of the exageration...lol

Oh...maybe we should start a creative writing thread about disfunctional bi marriages..fiction of course....lol

(A) Ok, apparently I was mistaken about progress being made here.

(B) Now I find myself in shock that I agree with goob on a topic! We both agree that this thread should be friggin locked down before it, or the people here get any stupider. But goob...let's neither of us hold our breath until that actually happens, shall we?

(C) Tenni, cheat if you must, defend it if you think that's right, but don't be a misogynist dickhead.

[darkeyes]

(A) Ok, apparently I was mistaken about progress being made here.

(B) Now I find myself in shock that I agree with goob on a topic! We both agree that this thread should be friggin locked down before it, or the people here get any stupider. But goob...let's neither of us hold our breath until that actually happens, shall we?

(C) Tenni, cheat if you must, defend it if you think that's right, but don't be a misogynist dickhead.

*Coffs..splutters*..

Annika..mysoginist dic..... God me shocked at such words outa u...

Don makeya rong tho..;) Muah!

[mikey3000]

Atta girl, Anika. If you can't beat em, join em. (tee hee hee.) See how much fun it is?

OK ok ok, My turn now. Someone call me a name quick before people get too bored.

[rissababynta]

Dude, LDD, you drive me crazy!!! You know I luv chattin with you, just not on cheatin threads.

Now be a good boy. Next time I'm in your part of the world, I'll take you up on your offer. Just don't tell your wife. LOL!!!!!

Oh snap!

[rissababynta]

(A) Ok, apparently I was mistaken about progress being made here.

(B) Now I find myself in shock that I agree with goob on a topic! We both agree that this thread should be friggin locked down before it, or the people here get any stupider. But goob...let's neither of us hold our breath until that actually happens, shall we?

(C) Tenni, cheat if you must, defend it if you think that's right, but don't be a misogynist dickhead.

HEY...I said it should be shut down too. You agree with me too!

By the way, I very much so liked the rest of your post as well...

And just in case if ANY of you give a damn, my hair came out GREAT.

[rissababynta]

Atta girl, Anika. If you can't beat em, join em. (tee hee hee.) See how much fun it is?

OK ok ok, My turn now. Someone call me a name quick before people get too bored.

Well Mikey, if it walks like a misogynist dickhead and talks like a misogynist dickhead...:bigrin:;)

And if you insist, you're a regurgitated cum bubble. How was that? Tone it down a bit? Make it better? Whatcha think.

[mikey3000]

Awww, c'mon Rissa, you can do better than that. Hurt me baby, make me cry!!! I was such a bad boy. You may have to put me over your knee. :bigrin:

[rissababynta]

Awww, c'mon Rissa, you can do better than that. Hurt me baby, make me cry!!! I was such a bad boy. You may have to put me over your knee. :bigrin:

LOL, my turn first! Do me next!

[tenni]

I want to thank all the people who helped me win this mysogynist dickhead award. Oh...I didn't think that I was going to win. I didn't really write a speech. First, I'd like to thank rissa. Without rissa...I just wouldn't have been able to develop my thoughts clearly. Second, Annika for nominating me.

* music starts

Oh, yes, I'd like to thank LDD and all the other great people on this site.

*as being pulled off stage raises the award.:bigrin:

Thank you on behalf of all Richard Craniums everywhere.

As the tugs get stronger it may be heard from the edge of the stage. But Annika...one thing is that I'm not a cheater...lol I'm a victim of cheating..(pulls out victim card to prove it ;)

[rissababynta]

I never thought that I'd be thanked during a speach...I'm touched. *cries a little*

[mikey3000]

I'll give you something to cry about Rissa! Over my knee right now young lady while I get my paddle! You naughty naughty girl!!!

(There. I think that just about killed this thread. Any more suggestions?)

[rissababynta]

I'll give you something to cry about Rissa! Over my knee right now young lady while I get my paddle! You naughty naughty girl!!!

(There. I think that just about killed this thread. Any more suggestions?)

Nope.

[mikey3000]

I'll get you, and your little Tenni, my little pretty. Bwaa haa haa haaa!!! Tenni? You're next over my knee, young man. And I'll particularly enjoy spankin your little hiney!!!;)

[tenni]

*blushes
Well, I...I'....I'v...I've never had that done to me since I was as high as grasshopper....oh I mean tall as a grasshopper...or was it as high as smoking grass...dunno...;)
but then again...I'm a bad bisexual...probably need a spanking....
*looks toward Annika



I'll get you, and your little Tenni, my little pretty. Bwaa haa haa haaa!!! Tenni? You're next over my knee, young man. And I'll particularly enjoy spankin your little hiney!!!;)

[rissababynta]

I don't think there is a such thing as a bad bisexual.

[mikey3000]

good ight all. I'm spent! tee hee hee.

[Annika L]

*blushes
Well, I...I'....I'v...I've never had that done to me since I was as high as grasshopper....oh I mean tall as a grasshopper...or was it as high as smoking grass...dunno...;)
but then again...I'm a bad bisexual...probably need a spanking....
*looks toward Annika

Awwwww, this is so cute, ending on such a warm fuzzy note.

Rissa, yes, I agreed with you, too...I only didn't mention it because I often agree with you *smile*.

Tenni, I owe you an apology for missing your orientation toward the subject of cheating...and a spanking for being a misogynous dickhead (misogynists truly do make for bad bisexuals, by the way).

My friends, we've been through so much together on this thread. And I just want to say...I'M DUCKING OUT *NOW* BEFORE YOU ALL GO SCHIZO AGAIN!! (or before I shock Fran again, gods forbid :tong:)

[mikey3000]

<:tongue:> LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA.

[bicurcple]

I don't LIKE the term "cheating" and don't for a minute consider what I do to be such.


My point to this long-winded diatribe?
Don't get caught... (if you need pointers on that, feel free to contact me privately)
DON'T tell the wifey for cripes sake !

Man, You need to hook me up, whatever you are smoking must be some goooooood shit.
What a hippocrate, if you don't like the term "cheating" and "don't consider what you do to be such" then what are you going to get "caught" at?
I agree with others that threads like this are bullshit.

[bicurcple]

It's interesting that the folks condeming Goober are in a bi-relationship and seeking other couples or singles to join them or they are single. Not all of us have been lucky enough to have an understanding spouse.

That said, I believe in honesty and told my spouse about my bi-side several years ago. She was not thrilled to say the least. She allowed the use of toys but absolutley refuse the inviting another man. Not long after that she lost her libido and has no interest in sex. We have not been intimate for years now. She has admitted that she does not seek close physical contact because she is afraid I will get excited and want sex.

About 6 months ago, I promised her that she could hug me, caress me, kiss me, or whatever and I would not intiate sex. However, I also told her that I needed sex and wanted to find a buddy. No love, no women, just someone to trade oral pleasures with. She said NO! She said it would have a bad affect on our marriage. She suggested I look into chemical castration.

OKay, so now what? Divorce? That would be bad for our marriage. Chemical castration? I think not! So at this point I am beginning to agree with goober. If I get together with some every once in a while and it keeps me happy and I leave her alone, which makes her happy.

I would be very greatful for any alternatives you care to suggest.

Dude, I could not even begin to give you advice on this one, but I had a friend in the same situation. His wife did not want sex at all, after years of trying to deal with it he got divorced and is very happy now. I am just saying that I could not live like that, but it is your decision to do what you need to. Just don;t try to say it's not cheating because it is.

[tenni]

Throwing around the word "cheating" seems ridiculous when 60&#37; of married men and 40% of married women will have an affair during their marriage. Using such a culturally, negatively powerful word like cheating seems to have much more ugliness and condemnation to it than the word "affair". Women that withhold sex from their husbands for years seem to be cheating their marriage in just a different way. :eek: It may take more courage to get out of such a marriage than to have an affair. Getting out may not be the best solution depending upon the circumstances. I agree that each individual complex situation is unique and being judgemental does nothing to resolve the core issues.



Dude, I could not even begin to give you advice on this one, but I had a friend in the same situation. His wife did not want sex at all, after years of trying to deal with it he got divorced and is very happy now. I am just saying that I could not live like that, but it is your decision to do what you need to. Just don;t try to say it's not cheating because it is.

[bicurcple]

Throwing around the word "cheating" seems ridiculous when 60% of married men and 40% of married women will have an affair during their marriage. Using such a culturally, negatively powerful word like cheating seems to have much more ugliness and condemnation to it than the word "affair". Women that withhold sex from their husbands for years seem to be cheating their marriage in just a different way. :eek: It may take more courage to get out of such a marriage than to have an affair. Getting out may not be the best solution depending upon the circumstances. I agree that each individual complex situation is unique and being judgemental does nothing to resolve the core issues.

That is not judgemental, he posted that he asked his wife to do it and she said "No" then if he did it anyway it would be cheating or having an "affair" same. In Vegas they say "No" to card counting but if I do it anyway am I not cheating?

[tenni]

You're correct oh rigid one...but

Affair sounds so much better though.......:bigrin: (kid'n ya Pasa)

To not have an affair is so old fashion and 20th century ...lol


Sigh.

If you have sex outside of your marriage without permission fro. your spouse, you are cheating.

Your reason for cheating does not change this fact.

Pasa

[bicurcple]

To not have an affair is so old fashion and 20th century ...lol

Now there is quite a lesson for the kids.

[rissababynta]

I can't believe you are letting this thread be brought back to life by this guy...sigh...

[tenni]

Which guy are you referring to sweetie? ;)



I can't believe you are letting this thread be brought back to life by this guy...sigh...

bicurcple
You are correct that kids should be taught the reality and not the fantasy.

[mikey3000]

First of all, I can't believe this topic is still here.

Secondly, let's get back on topic. To the guy who's wife has no interest in sex anymore and suggests he consider chemical castraton... Dude, you go do what ever you have to do, fuck other people's opinions!!!!! You have rights and physical needs too. Obviously your wife is not thinking clearly. I'd go find a friend too. Too many men on here are pussy whipped into subserviant attitudes. Why won't she even give you the slightest bit of physical attention? A caress? a hug? No physical contact at all? Just to what you think is best for you, cause obviously she is not even considering you in the slightest. Maybe you can suggest she sews up her vagina since she's not using it anymore. Would that be fair? Cause that's exactly what she is asking you to consider.

I don't know how you can stay with her, but man, my hat's off to you.

[rissababynta]

Which guy are you referring to sweetie? ;)




bicurcple
You are correct that kids should be taught the reality and not the fantasy.

I was talking about Iwannafuckallnight...the one that started the thread back up.

[mikey3000]

lol are you pussy whipped? Ever have an affair?

If my wife had no interest in sex anymore, and asked me to get castrated cause she has no interest in it? Hell yeah I'd have an affair, but it wouldn't be an affair, cause she'd know about it. If she wanted to leave me, I'd gladly hold the door open for her to go running back to Mama's.

But see, my wife and I have talkes about it and have agreed, if either of us no longer wants sex, the other is free to take a lover. Cause as a couple who's been together for 23 years, and who truly love each other, I'd never ask her to give up something she gets so much pleasure from, and neither would she. And if the marriage isn't strong enough to withstand extramarital lovers, then the marriage would come to an end. Happens every day.

[mikey3000]

lol are you pussy whipped? Ever have an affair? maybe you should be in a rap video since you treat women like objects for your sexual pleasure. :rolleyes: :mad:

LOL!!! Yeah, women are for my sexual pleasure, and so are guys too. In fact I'm here for their sexual pleasure as well, see? cause that's how it works. Mutual sexual pleasure amongst adults. When one no longer wishes to give or recieve sexual pleasure with the one they supposedly love, and a medical issue is not the cause, then it's time to consider other options.

[wildwestgoob]

FYI I don't cheat as much as people assume I do.

... as much... boy you just WANT to be the new whipping post around here dont ya?

Better learn the valuable lesson *I* did, and learn to keep your mouth shut around here on certain "touchy" topics.

PM-ing about this is much better, and less painful to the eyes...lol

[slider23]

I too tend to lean toward don't ask, don't tell.
I am also amused slightly at the fact that the heated responses come from mostly women, emotional women at that, another good reason I *DON'T* share any playtime with women.

I do not hide my relationship status with anyone I plan to meet (very few by the way) and if they don't like that situation, I politely say thank you for your time.

I have spoken online to people who are perfectly happy with smoking dope, getting shit-faced and driving, smacking their kids/wife around, (insert your own abhorrent behavior here) but find out about my "alternative" lifestyle, and come unglued, much the same as has been the response here.


As most of you will notice, you will NOT see any posts from the HUNDREDS of married men out there, who are members of this very site, who are doing/feeling the very same way that I am.
Does that make my/others actions "right" in your eyes?
Heck no.
Do we care what you think? not particularly.

No more than YOU care that there is still a GREAT MAJORITY OF HUMANS in this country who will DIE AT GUNPOINT before they "allow a faggot/dike to get married" in *their* town... By gawduh...
Can I get a halleloo-ya...

You will get up in arms for gay rights, but stomp on my rights.
Nice.
That's equality right there.

Home of the free, land of the "I'm right, You're wrong, so fuck off"

If any like-minded males have gotten thus far in this thread, consider this an open invitation to contact someone who actually UNDERSTANDS and sympathizes with your plight, whether it be considered right or wrong in the eyes of others.

I have your back and agree with your argument involving this topic. I would destroy my family if I attempted to come out to them. The decision of personal privacy and being completely discreet is essential. The chance of getting outed is always there and you better be prepared to suffer the consequences. However, is it fair to be a prisoner in a relationship with a wife,husband, or partner who wants to make all the rules involving sex without any compromises? I think I speak for a lot of members and married individuals in the same boat. Again good job!

[void()]

*coughs*

"I just think that is the biggest mistake a guy can ever make.
(just my personal opinion, please don't tar and feather me for having an opinion)

The chances of having the "perfect" spouse that has the mental capacity to take that revelation for what it is instead of taking it as a personal attack... well lets just assume you are looking for one in 40 billion, and the chances of that person being YOUR spouse are worse than your chances at playing the lottery.

Having that said, then what?????"

Tarred and feathered? Nah, boiling oil is much cleaner.

In my opinion being open and honest about a relationship is vital to that relationship, marriage or other form of relationship whatever it may be. My wife knew real early, we had only began dating. I brought it up and offered her a clear path. She has stayed right here with me.

She has relationships outside our marriage, same as me. We do not cheat. She knows I go out with a guy and I know she does as well. Still waiting too see if she'll let us do the threesome bit. If she doesn't no big deal for me. It'd be nice, no lie. But I love her for her.

We've been married for ten years, known one another for twelve, now. Deceiving one another is not part of open and honest communication. But hey, you want to be a jerk and cheat, have at it. Do I care? Hell no. Will you ever share a bed with me and/or my wife? Fuck No!

And no, I don't really think you want to share a bed with either of us. I'm just elucidating a point here. You go and deceive one, you'll deceive all. And baby, my men don't lie to me. Hear of HIV, other stds? I'm married, don't want to carry shit home to my spouse. Don't want to pass out shit to lovers either. I'm D&D free, get checked, give blood. Bed somebody that cheats? Nah.

And this isn't a personal attack. I'm just like Rissa, though. I'm tired of bullshit, the bullshit idea that cheating is alright. The idea that you need approval to cheat. What the fuck? You're doing it anyway, right? Duh. In the parlance of the Britts, sod the fuck off mate. Bah, fucking script. GRRR.

[void()]

*facepalm* "D'oh."

Wanders off looking for the tube with hazy smoke. "Too much Prozac and coffee." *sighs*

[daewoo69]

Hi all,
This is not to stir the pot anymore, but to express my own opinion.
Now we do know of two males, both within a relationship. That have the other half has said NO big time. Now this may be sad. But going behind someone’s back to experiment or fulfill your sexual desires is wrong. I did know of one who did play around and was found out(OPPS big time) and the other who is still together. Maybe over time but that is not for me to worry.

Now many may say ‘well what if you were in that same circumstance’. Well if it was no from my other half. That would be final.
We have been playing for over 13 years. And one of a first rules was, if you have had enough. Both of us would stop.
Now if my wife was to say ‘I have had enough. No more play’, which is exactly what, would happen. Or Visa Versa.

[Donkey_burger]

I guess my opinion about this could be pathologized as "black-and-white" if anyone on the "pro-cheating" side were to be my diagnostician.

I think all cheating is wrong. Sometimes it's understandable, but that doesn't make it right. If you have a relationship, that is romantic or sexual in nature, without your boyfriends/girlfriends/spouses knowledge or explicit and expressed permission, that's cheating. Being bisexual isn't an excuse; "sex is just sex" also isn't an excuse.

Never mind the ethical implications, you have to consider health for everyone involved. I mean, what if you catch a sexually transmitted infection? How would you explain that?

That's all I have to say.

DB :flag3:

[russbot]

Good Evening

There is an old concept called "integrity". Integrity used to be part and parcel of what it was to be a man. Without it, a chap could not possibly hope to finish his breakfast kippers, look destiny, society, god and the void squarely in the eye, tuck his morning paper under his arm and go about his business.

You cannot be a man of integrity whilst cheating on your wife. I cannot see how the fact that Mr Wildwestgoober is cheating on his wife with other gentlemen makes the slightest difference.

Telling your wife that you are sexually attracted to other chaps is risky. VERY risky. When I told my girlfriend, she was devastated, our relationship became strained. She is no longer my girlfriend, she is now my wife. She is still not happy about my wanting to get naked with other boys though. Ah well, the die is cast so to speak.

I can understand that Mr Wildwestgoober thinks that it would destroy his marriage if he were to tell his wife and wants to avoid risking the break up of his family for the sake of his child. However, I'm sure he knows that it is difficult to maintain a steely gaze when looking looking destiny, society, god and the void (let alone ones wife) squarely in the eye unless you are a man of integrity.

You know what to do. Stiff upper lip old boy.

Enjoy your kippers

Russbot

P.S Huge slippery cocks.

[PolyLoveTriad]

If you dont think youre cheating when you have to carefully plan locations, dates and times you have your head in the ground. You have no way to justify yourself here. Youre a cheater. If you had sex with the opposite sex you would be a cheater and with the same sex youre still a cheater.

That being said, my husband telling me he was Bi is the best thing that ever happened to our relationship. We are closer than I ever thought I could be with anyone. We have an incredible sex life, zomg bi guys are so freaking hot! We are able to be completely 100% honest with each other about ANYTHING not just sex. Him saying, honey I love you but I also like men was the best thing he ever said. HONESTY.

Honestly, I hope your wife finds out and leaves your sorry ass for cheating on her.

[69luvr]

:bipride:
Ok, you have your opinion but I have a completely different one. I believe in honesty. I would tell my spouse before we even got married.. Though I'm not sure if you knew you are bi before you got married, or not... This isn't a personal attack to you, it's me voicing my feelings on the matter.

I have a very "French" mindset, where I love wholly and passionately and never expect a relationship to end in marriage. I see it as more of a journey. Though I do understand that you are in a different place in your life than I, and I can't imagine being in your situation. I still feel honesty is the best way to go about things.

I know I'm just speaking for myself, but I would rather have my partner/spouse to have sex with other people behind my back, than having lies told to me about something as big as their own sexuality.

Again this is no judgment onto you, but just me expressing my own views and feelings.

:bipride:I loved your response.