Why do gays dislike bisexuals?

[mikey3000]

Answer me this? When a "straight" guy goes gay and has gay sex, he is not bi but in denial of his true feelings. But when a "gay" guy goes straight and has straight, only then he must be bi. Why the double standard?

Why do some gay men have difficulty grasping the concept of sexual fluidity?

[Realist]

I don't know, but I've had not the best experiences, with the two gay fellows I've been with, either. I have always felt the most comfortable with bisexual girls and guys. All of my first male lovers were bi.

I was with the first gay lover for several years, but it was a struggle at times. He was so adamant that I was gay, just trying to fool myself by saying I was attracted to the ladies. He could not fathom anyone being attracted to women.

The last one was a wonderful lover and friend. He had every attribute that I always wanted in a male lover and he knew I was bisexual. He said over and over again that he was OK with my duality. However, when I met and fell in love with my GF, he became so jealous that he totally shut down. When I refused his ultimatum to be exclusive with him, he ended the relationship.

[ken-bi]

Hey Mikey, I have the same experience.
I've been told "your really are gay." "Your really are gay and won't admit it."
I, on the other hand can't understand gay men's almost hate of women.
If they (men) are "too gay" its a turn off for me.
So maybe its the true maleness they dislike.

[FinkDoodle]

Yeah . . I get that a lot too. It's really annoying.

Then again, I had a bi girlfriend at the time I started getting curious and her opinion was that I "wasn't really a man" if I was bi . . so we pretty much get it from all sides . .

[mikey3000]

Hey Mikey, I have the same experience.
I've been told "your really are gay." "Your really are gay and won't admit it."
I, on the other hand can't understand gay men's almost hate of women.If they (men) are "too gay" its a turn off for me.
So maybe its the true maleness they dislike.

Good point. I've noticed that too. And I've often wondered about them.. "Are you gay cause you like men or are you gay cause you hate women?" Big difference in my eyes. But I really resent the gays who tell me I'm lying to myself cause I like women too. They say women are just a habbit to get over.

[ken-bi]

Mikey,
We are BISEXUAL and there is nothing to get over.

[rissababynta]

It is not only the occasional gay man. It's the occasional lesbian and straight person also. We as bisexuals pose a threat to those on one side of the line(in their eyes at least) so they try to look more deeply into the situation than what is necessary.

As bisexuals, we give the impression that we can choose who we want to love and for those who don't understand that we can't help who we are attracted to, it kind of throws the whole "I didn't choose to be gay" argument out the window. Also, many gay/lesbian and straight people feel that we are more likely to cheat because of our "bi urges" and that we can slip in and out easily of the straight and/or gay community because we have the best of both worlds (which of course, isn't fair). If you want to take a look at some of the REALLY ignorant ones, in their opinions bisexuals help spread disease...yeah ok lol.

Whenever you come across someone like the people you have spoken about in your original post, these issues usually tends to be the culprits of the matter. They are sure that we will and must just pick a side and some people just won't be happy until we do haha.

You see what I was saying about looking too deeply into it?

Thank GOD all of the gay and/or straight people I have ever known have been normal, great, and accepting people and I've never really had to feel as though I've been personally attacked or looked down upon.

[darkeyes]

Gays as a rule accept bisexuality every bit as much as str8s or even bisexuals themselves.. Ris comes closest in a way when she talks about the occasional gay man, lesbian or str8 person. Actually its rather more than the occasional gay man or lesbian. I find often str8 people (the more enlightened among them at least) are much more understanding and accepting of bisexuality and know only too well that bisexuality does not mean gay or lesbian. Most Gay's, men and women also accept that but a large proportion do not.

As a gay woman who herself was once bisexual I know only too well that sexuality changes as we go through life. For some it fluctuates, for others it either stays much the same or moves toward a much more rigid, or at least definite sexuality. This latter seems to have been what happened to me. However I always was much more attracted to my own sex and this simple fact may be the reason for that. There are no hard and fast rules about sexuality and why we are who we become. We are human and are as different from each other as all the grains of sand on a beach differ from each other.. similar but with subtle and often not so subtle differences.. we are all unique.

I would never be so presumptious as to tell any human being they are not who and what they claim to be. Any that does so is insufferably arrogant and deserves the universal condemnation of us all. Those of you who are bisexual may or may not some day become gay, or you may ultimately end up str8.. just as any str8 or gay man or woman can some day become one of the very many different sexualities and degrees of sexuality which we as a species are able to enjoy. Or if as some prefer.. endure or deny..

[Giggles100]

If I had a £ for every gay man that's tried to turn me gay........ Well I'd be a rich man :rolleyes:.

Thing is the girlies are just too damn hot :bigrin:.

I think Gay people don't understand Bi'ness in the same way Straight people don't understand Bi'ness. They do seem to try and understand thought and most of my gay friends don't really find issue with it. I do prefer relationships with like minded Bi people though as we all understand each other.

I don't care though I'm Bi and have :bipride: In myself :). I think if your out as Bi and wear BI pride stuff and your all about being Bi it doesn't really give anyone room to call you gay. If your a bit scared of being Bi/Gay then I think that gives people leeway to start questioning you )-:

Bi has to be the hardest orientation to wear sometimes.

[12voltman59]

I think that for a certain segment of gay men and lesbian women---their view on bisexuality has more of a political/ideolgoical aspect to it more than anything----bisexuality challenges that perspective and their world view as they see it from their "gay ghettos."

Everything in the world----they view from their perspective as being gay/lesbian.


It seems to me that this core of gays/lesbians, who are often the dominant forces in "gay culture" (or those gays who subscribe to the beliefs of this group and aspire to join them at those lofy heights)----totally reject the reality of bisexuality even more rabidly than do most heteros.

Bisexuality simply "does not compute" to them!!!!

[mikey3000]

I would never be so presumptious as to tell any human being they are not who and what they claim to be. Any that does so is insufferably arrogant and deserves the universal condemnation of us all. Those of you who are bisexual may or may not some day become gay, or you may ultimately end up str8.. just as any str8 or gay man or woman can some day become one of the very many different sexualities and degrees of sexuality which we as a species are able to enjoy. Or if as some prefer.. endure or deny..

I do believe this too!!! I believe in the fluidity of human sexuality very much. IF my present relationship should for some reason come to an end, IF i ever choose seek out another partner, I think it may be a male. But don't ever call me gay. I have the love of an amazing woman, and I love her dearly too. That will never change. I will always be bisexual, no matter what happens in my future.

[tenni]

I think that some gay men have difficulty with bisexuality because of their own personal experience. Some of them also seem to have more of an issue with being "out" once they declare themselves gay. They think that everyone should be out like them. Its a bit like having been a smoker and then becoming a non smoker...some get a little radical...lol They are a bit egocentric.

They look at their own struggle with sexuality and can only comprehend their own journey. They may have perceived themselves as bisexual at one point but later accepted their gayness. I find it difficult that a guy who may not have ever had sex with a woman nor been in love with a woman to think that he was bi. He may have labelled himself as bi as part of his journey in his sexual identity. But that is his journey as a gay man not a bisexual man. They used the word bisexual to describe themselves without understanding it. They were confused about their sexuality and included bisexuality as a descriptor. Therefore, of course all male bisexuals are still in the confused stage that they were in once. They think ...oh I'll help them out by telling them that they are still confused like I was.

Not all gay men go through this journey though. I don't know if a gay man who has always "known" ends up thinking like this...just my thoughts on the subject.

Now, about darkeyes...a bit of mystery that one...wish she would come back to the dark side....;)

[12voltman59]

I think that some gay men have difficulty with bisexuality because of their own personal experience. Some of them also seem to have more of an issue with being "out" once they declare themselves gay. They think that everyone should be out like them. Its a bit like having been a smoker and the becoming a non smoker...some get a little radical...lol They are a bit egocentric.

They look at their own struggle with sexuality and can only comprehend their own journey. They may have perceived themselves as bisexual at one point but later accepted their gayness. I find it difficult that a guy who may not have ever had sex with a woman nor been in love with a woman to think that he was bi. He may have labelled himself as bi as part of his journey in his sexual identity. But that is his journey as a gay man not a bisexual man. They used the word bisexual to describe themselves without understanding it. They were confused about their sexuality and included bisexuality as a descriptor. Therefore, of course all male bisexuals are still in the confused stage that they were in once. They think ...oh I'll help them out by telling them that they are still confused like I was.

Not all gay men go through this journey though. I don't know if a gay man who has always "known" ends up thinking like this...just my thoughts on the subject.

Now, about darkeyes...a bit of mystery that one...wish she would come back to the dark side....;)

I think you have hit on a number of salient points too--and I add to that--the fact that for many gay men and lesbians--their "journey" to coming out as gay--accepting themselves as gay, the reaction of family and friends--the rejections they suffered---has to all be very painful.

They sacrificed a great deal to be openly gay---so I can see from that perspective their feelings that bisexuals are "trying to have it both ways" without going through lots of the painful things--and going back and hiding under a veneer of having a foot in "the straight world."

For gays whose reason for not being accepting of bisexualty---I can understand and accept their reasoning considering "where they come from" in such instances

[djones]

A great many of my friends are gay. I know that many of them have the opinion that Bi guys are fooling themselves - afraid to admit they are gay. Hence, I sooner tell straight friends I am Bi and NEVER tell the gay ones.

I don't know if every gay person I know has the same opinion about Bi guys. From the ones that do have the negative opinion, I have heard various reasons for that viewpoint - from the political to psychological to the spiritual, but too many to list here.

Unfortunately, nothing I can say or do will change their minds - whatever their reasoning.

Fortunately, I am not looking for acceptance from anyone other than myself - and I'm cool with me !

[darkeyes]

Now, about darkeyes...a bit of mystery that one...wish she would come back to the dark side....;)

Tenni hun.. hav always lived on the dark side.. spose me always will.. jus me c's the dark side a lil diff from u..no mystery..am jus a girl who thinks for 'ersel an dus 'er own thing.. tho don always manage it, as far as poss try not 2 hurt peeps wile doin it.. mystery solved...:)

[tenni]

I know darkeyes. That is the sweet thing about you. Maybe, I should have written come back to the "bi dark side" but I'll respect your decision :tong:
*goes to the "inappropriate crush" thread...lol


Tenni hun.. hav always lived on the dark side.. spose me always will.. jus me c's the dark side a lil diff from u..no mystery..am jus a girl who thinks for 'ersel an dus 'er own thing.. tho don always manage it, as far as poss try not 2 hurt peeps wile doin it.. mystery solved...:)

[tenni]

HornedUpRam
I think that what I get from your post is that "absolutes" are not appropriate. That being written, some gay men exhibit this behaviour and do dislike bisexuals. Some gay men are very vocal about denying bisexuality. I think that more gay men are growing to accept that bisexuality exists. I agree that it is the repressed gay man who claims to be bi that creates a negative opinion of bisexuality but you would think that these gay guys would figure it out instead of applying it to anyone who states that they are bi.

Voltman doesn't write in absolutes when he states that "some " gay men etc. If you don't think that some gay men live if not physically then politically in a gay world, I don't what to write. I've met them. They exist. I've met gay men who live in the "real world" and do not agree with some of the gay political perspective. They consider it extremist.

The conversations and statements that I've heard gay men referring to women and in particular female genitals is quite different from any straight or bimen conversations. It is very phobic of female genitals to the point of being repulsed and stating that they want to vomit just thinking about it. They are inclined to share grotesque images of female genitals amongst themselves as a joke. These images are something that I've never seen from any inspections, although I'm not inclined to do gynological examinations..lol I've never heard a straight or biguy refer to female genitals in that manner....lol

[Giggles100]

There are a lot of really bad misconceptions written in this thread and there's lots of BS too.

Some of you people need to get this really dated notion of gay men out of your head. I read one post on this site where some fool claimed that all or most gay men somehow love disco music and are femme/camp. :rolleyes:

We do not hate gay men and while we are not bisexual at all we understand that lots of people are bisexual and that it is possible to be bisexual and either pretty equal or else more into one gender over the other one.

Voltman wrote about how lots of gay men and lesbian women live in what he calls "Gay ghettos" either physically or politically.

This is not true at all and most gay men and lesbian women do not live in gay ghettos or gay/GLBT neighborhoods or sections of cities. Many of us do not like gay ghettos such as the Castro, Chelsea/Astoria, the village/Church st., the gentrified Key West/SoBE, and other places.

As far as gay politics go we do not always all agree upon them either.

Sorry Voltman but you do not understand what it is like to be a gay man since you are not homosexual at all.

Not all gay men are biphobic and most are not.

Not all lesbians hate bisexual women and most do not have an issue at all with them.

I think what confuses some gay men are the deeply repressed gay men who call themselves bisexual when everyone even their wife and friends/family know that they are gay and even they know that they are really gay men but they refuse to accept it.

Then there's the fact that what Mikey wrote that if a bisexual man is married to a woman he is probably not going to ever leave his wife for a relationship with a man.

The same goes for bisexual women who are married to men and having a relationship with a woman which is what I'm sure pisses some lesbians off.

It does get rather tiresome to constantly hear the bisexual mantra of "nobody understands us!" from bisexuals who are not out, never will be out/open about their sexuality, and do not even try to tell other people about their sexuality and they are only open about their sexuality to one person such as a spouse and are deeply closeted or they are very repressed old people.

As homosexual men we are not sexually or romantically attracted to women at all this does not mean that we somehow "hate" women despite what people here say or claim.

Yes some fish jokes do get thrown around among men but even straight men and women do this, and I've even seen lesbians do this sort of thing about other women, and as gay men we get enough shit from the straight world that being in the company of men only is a fun escape from the straight world.

What does get rather annoying and tiresome is when bisexuals claim that "All people are bisexual but somehow do not know it!" thus not even trying to understand homosexuality and invalidating gay men when we do not do this to bisexuals, or they're unable to grasp the fact that most people are monosexual in that they are heterosexual.

I have never had lust or any sexual attraction to women at all and I never will in this lifetime. It's just not in the cards for me.

Some bisexuals will play the cards of "Well how do you know that you're a gay man since you've never had sex with a woman?" or some will claim that as gay men we somehow "hate" women just because we're not sexually attracted to the female gender at all and that includes Transmen and Transwomen, we're only attracted to real men or biological men and there is nothing wrong with this.

Then there are the bisexuals who claim that because they can have sexual attraction to both men and women or both genders that it somehow makes them better than everyone else who is not bisexual at all. :rolleyes:

Wow!.... Fair enough :)

I thought all gay men liked disco music and drove black Wrangler Jeeps anyway ;)

(NB: Sorry I couldn't resist a reference to Queer As Folk :bigrin:) - Please don't take offence I just love to take the pee!

[tenni]

Giggles100
Wrangler Jeeps are chic magnets for straight, twenty something year old guys over here...lol

Uh...although I'm not twenty, I do have a jeep wrangler.....it only attracts girls way too young for me....damn

[Eddie altamonte]

There are a lot of really bad misconceptions written in this thread and there's lots of BS too.

Some of you people need to get this really dated notion of gay men out of your head. I read one post on this site where some fool claimed that all or most gay men somehow love disco music and are femme/camp. :rolleyes:

We do not hate gay men and while we are not bisexual at all we understand that lots of people are bisexual and that it is possible to be bisexual and either pretty equal or else more into one gender over the other one.

Voltman wrote about how lots of gay men and lesbian women live in what he calls "Gay ghettos" either physically or politically.

This is not true at all and most gay men and lesbian women do not live in gay ghettos or gay/GLBT neighborhoods or sections of cities. Many of us do not like gay ghettos such as the Castro, Chelsea/Astoria, the village/Church st., the gentrified Key West/SoBE, and other places.

As far as gay politics go we do not always all agree upon them either.

Sorry Voltman but you do not understand what it is like to be a gay man since you are not homosexual at all.

Not all gay men are biphobic and most are not.

Not all lesbians hate bisexual women and most do not have an issue at all with them.

I think what confuses some gay men are the deeply repressed gay men who call themselves bisexual when everyone even their wife and friends/family know that they are gay and even they know that they are really gay men but they refuse to accept it.

Then there's the fact that what Mikey wrote that if a bisexual man is married to a woman he is probably not going to ever leave his wife for a relationship with a man.

The same goes for bisexual women who are married to men and having a relationship with a woman which is what I'm sure pisses some lesbians off.

It does get rather tiresome to constantly hear the bisexual mantra of "nobody understands us!" from bisexuals who are not out, never will be out/open about their sexuality, and do not even try to tell other people about their sexuality and they are only open about their sexuality to one person such as a spouse and are deeply closeted or they are very repressed old people.

As homosexual men we are not sexually or romantically attracted to women at all this does not mean that we somehow "hate" women despite what people here say or claim.

Yes some fish jokes do get thrown around among men but even straight men and women do this, and I've even seen lesbians do this sort of thing about other women, and as gay men we get enough shit from the straight world that being in the company of men only is a fun escape from the straight world.

What does get rather annoying and tiresome is when bisexuals claim that "All people are bisexual but somehow do not know it!" thus not even trying to understand homosexuality and invalidating gay men when we do not do this to bisexuals, or they're unable to grasp the fact that most people are monosexual in that they are heterosexual.

I have never had lust or any sexual attraction to women at all and I never will in this lifetime. It's just not in the cards for me.

Some bisexuals will play the cards of "Well how do you know that you're a gay man since you've never had sex with a woman?" or some will claim that as gay men we somehow "hate" women just because we're not sexually attracted to the female gender at all and that includes Transmen and Transwomen, we're only attracted to real men or biological men and there is nothing wrong with this.

Then there are the bisexuals who claim that because they can have sexual attraction to both men and women or both genders that it somehow makes them better than everyone else who is not bisexual at all. :rolleyes:

Horned intolerance is property of no particular group as a person who tried to deny his Bisexuality for 35 years of his life because of society's lack of acceptance or understanding, I can tell you I have not found open arms from the Gay community either. There is a predominant perception that bisexuality is just denial and coweredness within the gay community. In fact I agree that the straight population are more honest and sincere in their efforts towards acceptance than the gay community. I would say at least the straight community is clear on their stance. I rather be hated openly than behind my back. BTW of course it's not everyone but would you think we were be making things up out of an inferiority complex. I guarentee you 99% of us in the forum have experienced the Gay Snub many times over.

[boca.openminded]

Hey Mikey, I have the same experience.
I've been told "your really are gay." "Your really are gay and won't admit it."
I, on the other hand can't understand gay men's almost hate of women.
If they (men) are "too gay" its a turn off for me.
So maybe its the true maleness they dislike.

I remember years ago when I was involved in a relationship with my gf at the time I had sexual attractions for men too. I knew I was not gay but I did not understand the feelings. We'd talk about it and she said that its normal to be bi curious.

Being naive I jumped online to find answers. Most of the men I talked to were gay (yahoo groups) and they all said the same thing "you are gay but will not admit it" or "in the closet". When I told them I was not gay and I was very attracted to women they'd give me an attitude and get angry at me. They'd start cursing and giving me shit. It reminded me of a few gay friends of friends I knew years ago that hated single men, women, and only hung out with other gay men. It was like everyone that was not like them were wrong.

I still do not understand all the anger....

[tenni]

Ok...I'm sure that as a gay man you know best about straight guys.

Ya...straight guys will make comments about women's genitals but not like some gay guys. Straight and bi guys still want it. Guys may complain about it being loose but women are very sensitive if that happens after childbirth and do their kegel...even during sex.... (or get a tuck) To shave or not to shave is a personal preference. "Skanky" is used to describe a woman that guys don't like more so for their behaviour sexual or otherwise, never their lovers. Most women do not present themselves to men unless they are very,very clean.....well all women that I've been with. Many women don't want to have sex during their period even if the guy wants to. They expect their guys to present themselves clean and so why do you think that a woman would not do the same?

Sorry ladies...if we are gross or off topic.



Tenni, you must not hang around a lot of heterosexual men or bisexual men at all.

I've overheard straight and bisexual men say how some women's vaginas are gross. Of course they do not do this when women are around.

Yes bisexual men and even heterosexual men do jokingly and seriously say how a woman's vagina smells like fish if it's not clean, or how it can be nasty if it's all skunky and not cleaned properly, or how a lot of men insist upon a woman shaving her parts for them and how it is supposedly nasty if a woman does not shave her pubic hair. Or how as a woman gets older or if she has children how her vagina gets nastier and nastier. Or how a woman's smegma and yeast and when it's that time of the month are all very nasty.

This is what I've had straight and bisexual men tell me in conversations when they're amazed that I've never fucked a woman and have zero desire to and how to them a woman's pussy is good but how if it's dirty or she's old or has had lots of kids how it is gross the way they've described and what their experiences have shown them.

Some gay men do find women's genitals to be nasty.

When I have seen naked women in straight porn it does not gross me out but it just does nothing for me sexually and I'd much rather just see only the naked man there.

I can understand why to some gay men naked women and women's genitals are nasty and a turn off.

I've never attempted sex with a woman but I do know some gay men who have and they said how to them it was revolting and disgusting and how the one guy puked from just seeing the woman naked. I have known another gay man who had sex with women and he described it as being very nasty like scat or sex with shit would be.

One of my best friends is a gay man and he has never had sex with a woman as like me there's zero desire there but he's OK with seeing naked women in art such as paintings and statues but he gets grossed out and very sick to his stomach if he sees naked women in porn or hears men describe a woman's vagina in great details.

There's nothing wrong with this as not everyone is into women sexually.

I've seen lesbians talk about how gross men's penises are and how nasty the sperm is. I have seen Darkeyes' posts about this on this board and nobody seems to care about this double standard even if it does get played off as a joke.

Then again I have heard lesbians in bars talk about how they were with a woman who had a nasty skunky smelling pussy.

While I'm not a straight or heterosexual man this is how straight men are about seeing naked men and men's genitals since if a man is actually really heterosexual/straight he's not going to be sexually attracted to other men or their cocks at all.

[citystyleguy]

Mikey,
We are BISEXUAL and there is nothing to get over.

Amen, to that! the problem is with them, not us!

[ivanthemonkey]

Why do some gay men have difficulty grasping the concept of sexual fluidity?

One reason (and not the only for all, just a single reason for many) is because the ability to be bisexual, that is for men to have sexual relations with other men and still not be "gay" brings up the possibility that homosexuality is a choice and not something that "can't be helped"

Many in the gay community resent the possibility that homosexuals aren't born that way, that it is a choice, and that someone can choose to be gay or to not be gay. This represents the possibility that someone who is gay can stop being gay, grow out of it, or change their ways. It is also contrary to many held arguements used by some in the gay community "you can't help who you are attracted to" or "I was born that way" or even "If god doesn't condone homosexuality, then why are some born gay"

Gay individuals are often put under presure to stop being gay, especially from family, being told "it is a phase, they are rebeling" or "they will grow out of it" or expeerimenting etc. The arguement they use back is that being gay is something you are born with, compelled to be, and that you can't jump fences back and forth, that gays cannot be attracted to the opposite sex, etc. With such strong and persistant presure to stop being gay, many in the community go to extremes to justify their choice.

For example the claim of some gay men that the nude female is repulsive, as are their sexual organs. Such a claim is inherently unhealthy and suggests they have a mental disorder. The human body is beautiful. Even straight men can and do appretiate the naked form in art, even the male naked form. Such artworks as Michelangelo's David shows that straight men can see the male form as a beautiful thing.

Bisexuality throws all this back in their face, it is seen as them as saying that they can be just going through a phase, that they can stop being gay.

This is combined with emperical evidence that suggests that gays are attracted to the same things as straight people. Several studies on what men are attracted to, that is what biological markers men look at, such as the hour glass figure, higher voice, smooth skin, and other feminine qualities that men are naturally attracted to, that both straight and Gay men alike are attracted to the same biological markers.

The sugestion that most gay men are attracted to the same hourglass figure as straight men raises the issue that sexual attraction to the same sex is, as least in part, a choice.

Many in the gay community are very much against the idea that homosexuality is a chosen lifestyle. And are thus opposed to bisexuality because of what it suggests.

Another facit of homosexualities are those that come out of the closet. Some of whom may be married and have children in straight relationships. Their arguement is that they are living in denial of their sexuality and can't help being attracted to men (and not attracted to women) Bisexuality suddenly makes this a lousy excuse on par with another man leaving his wife for his bimbo secretary.

[mikey3000]

Ivan, thank you. Makes perfect sene to me. My sexuality is my CHOICE, not something I blame on genetics or mother nature. I own my decisions. Anything less is just, well, less.

[tenni]

"One reason (and not the only for all, just a single reason for many) is because the ability to be bisexual, that is for men to have sexual relations with other men and still not be "gay" brings up the possibility that homosexuality is a choice and not something that "can't be helped"

Ivanthemonkey
There is evidence that sexuality is how you are born and not a choice. That includes bisexuals. Transgender is another situation that is not a choice. Bisexuality is not a choice. Bisexuality is the attraction to both genders and that is it. What is a choice for bisexuals is what you do about it. Bisexuals have a choice as to whether they are sexually intimate with a woman or a man. Gay people are only attracted to same sex and they do not have a choice. They are not attracted to women.

"The sugestion that most gay men are attracted to the same hourglass figure as straight men raises the issue that sexual attraction to the same sex is, as least in part, a choice."

I've not heard about this. What I do know is that some gay men are attracted to muscular physiques with broad shoulders, small waist and a bubble butt. Not feminine at all.

[FinkDoodle]

It's a choice for me as well . . I'm just a very sexual person that likes the variety of both genders. Emotionally I'm attracted to women far more than I am to men . .

But I guess we're all a little different . .

[darkeyes]

It's your CHOICE to act upon or not act upon your sexual attractions to both genders but that does not mean that someone's sexuality somehow is not genetic or that they were not born this way.

Was it somehow your choice to be born a Caucasian bisexual male?

Our sexuality can be a choice Ram. It can also be genetic I agree. It can also be learned and so we make the choice. It can also be genetic and we make the choice. So while Mikey said he didnt blame his sexuality on genetics, his choice may very well have been influenced by those genetics. So while you did not say his choice may have been influenced by genetic factors, it may indeed very well have been. So really there is agreement between you.

[tenni]

Darkeyes
When you write "our sexuality can be a choice" are you referring just to bisexuals or all humans including straight and gay?

Mikey states that his sexuality is bisexual. I don't understand as I thought that he came to understand his sexuality. He didn't go out and select it from a menu. He did however decide to act upon his attractions to men. I believe that even if a bisexual has chosen to be in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship they are still bisexual as long as they have the ability to be attracted sexually to both genders. (sorry for using you Mikey as an example ...but there you are putting yourself up as an example.:bigrin: )



Our sexuality can be a choice Ram. It can also be genetic I agree. It can also be learned and so we make the choice. It can also be genetic and we make the choice. So while Mikey said he didnt blame his sexuality on genetics, his choice may very well have been influenced by those genetics. So while you did not say his choice may have been influenced by genetic factors, it may indeed very well have been. So really there is agreement between you.

[darkeyes]

Darkeyes
When you write "our sexuality can be a choice" are you referring just to bisexuals or all humans including straight and gay?

Mikey states that his sexuality is bisexual. I don't understand as I thought that he came to understand his sexuality. He didn't go out and select it from a menu. He did however decide to act upon his attractions to men. I believe that even if a bisexual has chosen to be in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship they are still bisexual as long as they have the ability to be attracted sexually to both genders. (sorry for using you Mikey as an example ...but there you are putting yourself up as an example.:bigrin: )

I refer to all sexualities, Tenni. In the case of str8's because that is the predominant sexuality accepted by their society and consequently most never question it. Some on the other hand choose to go outside of their society's norm and become bisexual, often because of a life experience. Many bisexual people become bisexual for just the same reason. But because one has an experience no more makes them bisexual or gay than a str8 experience makes a bisexual or gay person str8. Things happen in our lives which make us who and what we are. I harp on about this often because it is true. Environmental factors can never be taken out of the equation when we consider that.

Mikey may or may not be an example of a person who has selected his sexuality, for whatever reason simply out of choice. Something has made him choose the question is what? If we remove the possibility that something in his genetic make up has helped him with that choice, we have to consider something else. I don't know the answer to that, but Mikey may know of something in his past which has edged him in that direction. If it is simply attraction to his own sex, and there are no environmental factors involved, then I suggest, although I may be wrong, that his sexuality is influenced by his genetic make up.

Sexuality is a complexx issue as you will agree. An outwardly str8 person who lives a str8 life is not necessarily str8 as all of us are only too aware. Similarly those who are outwardly bisexual are not necessarily bisexual. Many in the gay community do not accept bisexuality as a possibility, but most do, myself included. I would make the claim that many gay men and women are not in fact gay men and women, but that they have for reasons of their own decided to live the lie. Several supposedly gay women I know I am convinced are anything but lesbian. I see the look in their eyes when a sexy guy walks past, and that look doesnt say yugh! Challenge them on it and they can get quite tetchy to say the least. That decision to live the life to a lesbian does not necessarily make them so.

The accusation that has been aimed at me by several lesbian friends and some who are not friends is that for years I denied my lesbianism. This is not so. I had a wonderful and exciting time and enjoyed sex with men immensely, and would not have missed most of those experiences for the world. I did not choose to become lesbian, as time went on I lost the attraction for men and the desire to have sex with them. It was not, I do not believe in my case, a choice, and I do not believe a subconscious choice, it was change in my needs and desires. Just as when we are children we like milk chocolate, as we grow older we often begin to prefer dark chocolate. Sometimes we even take a distaste for chocolate altogether.

We are hugely complex beings, and sexuality is a hugely complex issue. Genetics, environment and choice come into play for all o us whatever our sexuality. Sometimes all three together sometimes but one. Sometimes we live the life and are gay, we live the life and are are bisexual or straight... often however we just live the lie. But having made the choice, many are what they believe themselves to be, gay str8 or bi. No matter the sexuality, some have chosen, and some just are.

[chgodad]

Though I can't speak for all gay men... Not many of my circle (and I know a lot of people in the gay community here) do not like bisexuals. I know a few who find it hard to conceive of a man (or woman) who gets turned on by members of both genders. However, even they don't claim to dislike a person who claims the label bisexual.

Personally, I think that bisexual individuals are lucky... and I may envy them a bit; their potential pool of partners in sex is much greater that anyone mainly attracted to one gender.

On a personal note, I certainly find the companionship and physical company of bisexual men more than enjoyable. A man who has the companionship of a woman, but can appreciate a male's attention as well, is very appealing.

:2cents:

[tenni]

Darkeyes
Very well expressed thoughts. I suspect that we are in agreement but looking at it from slightly different perspectives as you earlier posted.

I agree that sexuality is complex. Sexual desires may be very fluid over a person's life. That may be slightly different from what you write. Environment does indeed play a large role in how our decision and choices are made. The person who believes that they are straight and has never had a thought about being sexually attracted to the same sex but suddenly or slowly discovers that they are beginning to become attracted to thoughts of same sex activity. This person may be a prime example of what you write. What these environmental factors may be may vary and be difficult to generalize as you refer to the complexity. This is a different person from someone living a straight lifestyle but knowing that they are attracted to same sex. They may be acting upon environmental demands to be straight but know that they are otherwise.

I will give an example though. The man who is only attracted to women and enters into a relationship with her..full blown love if you may. If that relationship ends and at a later point in his life he begins to wonder about many things and it is possible that same sex thoughts may emerge that were never there before. Societal discussions are much more open today about same sex acts. As gay activists have argued and won a more open acceptance for gays, the entire society tolerance begins to shift. The taboo is reduced. If you have had a failed relationship, sometimes you look for the same thing and replicate that relationship even down to having a new partner that physically resembles former partners. However, it is also possible that you seek out something different or opposite. I know of middle age men whose marriage has ended who begin to become bi curious under these environmental conditions. Now there is always going to be an argument that they always had an interest and repressed it etc. That may be true for some. For others it is the environmental change of ending a relationship, societal attitudes etc.

In these situations where the person has become open to exploring alternatives, may be the threat not only to heterosexual mainstream but politically gay people as well. I've known a gay man who always thought of himself as gay beginning to become curious about sex with women. He stated that there would have to be a man there as well otherwise it would be too uncomfortable. It shocked him that these thoughts were coming into his mind in his mid 40's. As far as I know, he has repressed these thoughts and not acted on them ....yet. So, yes I agree that for some sexuality or sexual attraction may become fluid for environmental reasons as well as possibly hormonal and other other reasons.

In both cases, these men do not believe that they will become romantically aroused. Their emotional love remains either hetero or gay according to what they have said. This is also a common feature of some bisexuals as well. Some bisexuals are only attracted to same sex physical rather than emotional. Their emotional love needs are only fulfilled by opposite sex. Some bisexuals have both physical and emotional love needs from same sex and opposite sex.

I agree that our needs change and this may cause us to re examine our sexual activity. Whether that gives more credence to the point that all are bisexual (watch someone scream at this comment) or that there is a need to re examine perceptions about sexuality is yet to be understood...by at least me. Bisexuals are not always attracted to both genders at the same time in their life. Sexual fluidity may be the key to why some political gays dislike bisexuality as much as some straights. We just don't fit into their binary boxes. Your life experience is evidence of that. That is why I say that you may still one of us....lol I will however state that whatever sexuality that a person sees themself as is individual and that is where the choice may be the strongest.

[mikey3000]

Mikey may or may not be an example of a person who has selected his sexuality, for whatever reason simply out of choice. Something has made him choose the question is what? If we remove the possibility that something in his genetic make up has helped him with that choice, we have to consider something else. I don't know the answer to that, but Mikey may know of something in his past which has edged him in that direction. If it is simply attraction to his own sex, and there are no environmental factors involved, then I suggest, although I may be wrong, that his sexuality is influenced by his genetic make up.


I do know that it was something in my past and present, or rather lack thereof, that has hugely influenced the persom I am today. Not that it can be fixed now, but now I'm learning who to deal with the void.

Personaly I don't understand how a preference can be genetic? Or is it? If homosexuality is genetic, would't all sexual orientations be genetic? Where'sthe straight gene? the bi gene? Once you take take away ownership of a choice, it lessens it's value. " I like to suck dick, well, because that's just the way I was born." vs "I like to suck dick because that is who I am and it's my choice." To me there is a difference. An expression of human rights and freedoms. Neither is more valid than the other, but to mw both are equally valid reasons. Both genetic conditions and lifestyle choices have met with resistanse in popular society in the past (see discrimination against the handicapped and alternative religions for just two examples). Both would considered minorities, and yet still valueable to today's society, that's why their rights are protected. I believe so should a person's sexual choice, again, as long as it it is between two consenting adults.

Diversity is such a great thing. It should be celebrated at every turn. And if I'm rambling and not making sense, sorry, I woke with a bad head cold. UGH!

[BiWayfarer]

I have wondered if some gays dislike bisexuals because they perceive us all to be libertines, and as such causing them to be scapegoated and stereotyped as libertines themselves. That, of course, is a foolish position for someone to assume, as we are obviously not all libertines. Certainly no more of us than is true of gays.

[darkeyes]

I do know that it was something in my past and present, or rather lack thereof, that has hugely influenced the persom I am today. Not that it can be fixed now, but now I'm learning who to deal with the void.

Personaly I don't understand how a preference can be genetic? Or is it? If homosexuality is genetic, would't all sexual orientations be genetic? Where'sthe straight gene? the bi gene? Once you take take away ownership of a choice, it lessens it's value. " I like to suck dick, well, because that's just the way I was born." vs "I like to suck dick because that is who I am and it's my choice." To me there is a difference. An expression of human rights and freedoms. Neither is more valid than the other, but to mw both are equally valid reasons. Both genetic conditions and lifestyle choices have met with resistanse in popular society in the past (see discrimination against the handicapped and alternative religions for just two examples). Both would considered minorities, and yet still valueable to today's society, that's why their rights are protected. I believe so should a person's sexual choice, again, as long as it it is between two consenting adults.

Diversity is such a great thing. It should be celebrated at every turn. And if I'm rambling and not making sense, sorry, I woke with a bad head cold. UGH!

Mikey, none of us know for sure exactly why we are what we are. Whether genetic or other factors or a combination of both make us gay or bisexual or str8 on that there are still arguments and will be or a long time to come. Why do we have blue eyes or brown? Why brunette, auburn or red hair? Why curly or Straight or wavy hair? Why straight teeth and why squint? Why pale skin or swarthy? Why is our favourite colour what it is? Why do we prefer milk to dark chocolate or vice versa? Why would we rather enjoy cycling to running? Why do we prefer summer to winter and others the opposite? Why do some never learn to swim? Why are some brilliant at Maths and others at English? Why are some sociopaths and others decent and sociable human beings? Why do some people do some things so easily and yet others are incapable? Why are artists artists? Why Einstein, Newton, Michalangelo or Leonardo? Why Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot? Why are we left or right handed .. or indeed ambidextrous? Much is down to our personal history but not all. Genetics affects many of our lifestyle preferences, not all. Most of these questions we have no sure answer. However genetics plays its part in each instance to what degree we are not clear. Personal history and environment also plays its part. If genetics influences our looks and out health why not our tastes and preferences?

Such is the complexity of our kind I doubt that we will ever answer the whys completely to our satisaction every question. I do not believe genetics makes every persons sexuality. I do however believe that it contributes to the sexuality of many, possibly most, being whatever it is. Even maybe your own. :)

[darkeyes]

O..an tenni babes.. am already 1 a u.. am a human bein.. differences a opinion aside ( a wich don think we do that much on this issue)... wiv a mind of er own an that hun is jus as it shud b.. for alla us...:). Am on ur side.. even allowin for the diff a sex an sexuality..

[tenni]

Ah darkeyes....yes we are the same....I like your thoughts and your intelligent kind soul. Far kinder than mine sometimes.

[ivanthemonkey]

Ivanthemonkey
There is evidence that sexuality is how you are born and not a choice. That includes bisexuals. Transgender is another situation that is not a choice. Bisexuality is not a choice. Bisexuality is the attraction to both genders and that is it. What is a choice for bisexuals is what you do about it. Bisexuals have a choice as to whether they are sexually intimate with a woman or a man. Gay people are only attracted to same sex and they do not have a choice. They are not attracted to women.

That evidence is spotty at best, and what is more is that some of this evidence that homosexuality is condition that can't be helped also suggests that it is something that can be treated and cured and raises the question of if homosexuality should be considered a disease, mental illness or genetic disorder, a prospect that I frankly don't find appealing.

Especially if the arguement is made that if it is genetic, and thus a disorder, then homosexuality can possibly represent the extinction of the species, and BAM!! goose stepping Nazis all over the place tossing all gays into concentration camps.

Transsexuals are a different thing entirely as a man or woman can be born with the wrong genitals and still even genetically be the opposite sex from what organs they are born with. This makes it less of a moral debate and more of a corrective biological debate.

Either way, bisexuality is seen as many from the gay community as a threat to their beliefs that one is born gay. It doesn't matter if people are in fact born gay, or if they choose to be gay, that really isn't relevant. The point that I am getting at is that some gays feel threatened by the prospect that that it might be a choice, as this is a key arguement for their lifestyle, understand that many gays are placed under considerable presure to stop being gay by their families, by their religion etc. and right or wrong, bisexuality is seen as a threat in this regards[/quote]




I've not heard about this. What I do know is that some gay men are attracted to muscular physiques with broad shoulders, small waist and a bubble butt. Not feminine at all.

Extensive studies on what men and women are attracted to have been done, most of them not aimed at the gay community, and this discovery is an interesting byproduct.

One such study of the hourglass shape and the male attraction to it was intended to study why men consider the thinner models of today as attracted as opposed to the heavier models of decades ago, or the beauties in art in past ages who by todays standards would have been labeled wrongly as fat.

What they found was that the thinness of a women was a product of the media, men want thin women because the media drills it into us, but what was consitant between a hot model now and a hot model in 1900 and a beautiful girl in a painting 500 years ago is the hourglass ratio of the female body.

When shown silloettes of body shapes ranging from round, male, thin small or large, men consitantly choose the hourglass shape, and this is where they found an interesting supprise, they also ran the same test in gay men for comparison's sake, and gay men also consistantly found the shape to be attractive.

This is a generalization, of course, and is only a single aspect to the attraction of the opposite gender, there are many other causes and effects, people are not simple creatures with on/off switches, so take these studies in context with other findings. But it is shown that in general gay men find certain feminine qualities attractive in the same way that straight men do.

The reason of course being that even gay men want to have offspring. Survival of our genetic code is a rather strong trait in any species, and thus the two primary drives of ANY and ALL humans, including gay men.

Food.

Procreation.

Yes I know that it isn't so simple, but society is considerably more complex, there is plenty of food for example, so I don't have to gather and hunt or go hungry, thus with plenty I can diet knowing I have a full fridge, conversly the worlds population is large enough that I don't need to have offspring to survive, so these two primary drives can be supressed. Not facing starvation nor extinction the drives are not as high as they would be otherwise.

Yet they are still there.

The biological attraction that one feels for the opposite sex is the need to procreate, the core drive to have sex is to have offspring, and these biological markings that we find attractive are the markings of a potential mate, the hourglass figure shows a healthy childbearing female. Thus our attraction.

Straight men are attracted to these things out of a desire to procreate, There is no evidence to show that gay men have any less desire to procreate then straight men do.

The biological urge to have sex is the urge to procreate, so as long as a homosexual has the urge to have sex, they have the potential attraction to the opposite genger.

The urge to procreate, and the attraction to the opposite sex however can be suppresed and redirected, especially if their is no emmediate imparative to procreate. Other attractions can be enhanced.

For example, there is a natural attraction to the same gender that everyone has. There is a biological urge to bond with the same gender to form a structured society rather then constantly fight each other. Straight men (and women of course) often form close relationships with one another far beyond simple friendship. Comradery where two or more men are closely bonded, or a leader/follower or mentor relationship, , these relationships are ussually nonsexual in nature, yet are often as strong or stronger then the relationships they have with women.

The Ancient greeks for example noticed this, and encouraged homosexuality in their military to strengthen these bonds. Homosexuality was seen as a natural expresion of love between two straight men.

With little to no need to procreate, the natural attraction to the same gender is increased considerably, and we see throughout history an increase in homosexuality when populations reach their peek and having offspring is less imparative.

Keep in mind that when saying the above, I am on a bisexual forum because I enjoy sex with other men, I beleive homosexuality is a healthy, normal lifestyle. So keep the perspective that what i am saying is only a small piece of a much larger puzzle of sexual attraction.

[ken-bi]

That is it:
I am Bisexual because I am ambidextrous. OR, I am ambidextrous because I am Bisexual? LOL

[mikey3000]

Mikey, none of us know for sure exactly why we are what we are. Whether genetic or other factors or a combination of both make us gay or bisexual or str8 on that there are still arguments and will be or a long time to come. Why do we have blue eyes or brown? Why brunette, auburn or red hair? Why curly or Straight or wavy hair? Why straight teeth and why squint? Why pale skin or swarthy? Why is our favourite colour what it is? Why do we prefer milk to dark chocolate or vice versa? Why would we rather enjoy cycling to running? Why do we prefer summer to winter and others the opposite? Why do some never learn to swim? Why are some brilliant at Maths and others at English? Why are some sociopaths and others decent and sociable human beings? Why do some people do some things so easily and yet others are incapable? Why are artists artists? Why Einstein, Newton, Michalangelo or Leonardo? Why Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot? Why are we left or right handed .. or indeed ambidextrous? Much is down to our personal history but not all. Genetics affects many of our lifestyle preferences, not all. Most of these questions we have no sure answer. However genetics plays its part in each instance to what degree we are not clear. Personal history and environment also plays its part. If genetics influences our looks and out health why not our tastes and preferences?

Such is the complexity of our kind I doubt that we will ever answer the whys completely to our satisaction every question. I do not believe genetics makes every persons sexuality. I do however believe that it contributes to the sexuality of many, possibly most, being whatever it is. Even maybe your own. :)

Darkeyes, you are comparing apples to oranges. On the one hand you are describing genetic traits, on the other, preferences. Genetics are inherited, preferences are learned. Any good analist can tell you why you prefer the things you do. I hate mushrooms cause I was forced to eat them as a kid. I hate baby blue cause that was the colour of my room from day one till I got married and moved out. I have green eyes, cause my parents did, and their parents, and their parents did. Same with my light brown hair pale skin. See the differences? But whether it is genetic or preference, both still make up who we are. But I do know why I prefer what I do and I suspect most people do too.

[darkeyes]

Darkeyes, you are comparing apples to oranges. On the one hand you are describing genetic traits, on the other, preferences. Genetics are inherited, preferences are learned. Any good analist can tell you why you prefer the things you do. I hate mushrooms cause I was forced to eat them as a kid. I hate baby blue cause that was the colour of my room from day one till I got married and moved out. I have green eyes, cause my parents did, and their parents, and their parents did. Same with my light brown hair pale skin. See the differences? But whether it is genetic or preference, both still make up who we are. But I do know why I prefer what I do and I suspect most people do too.

No hun I dont.. I dont why you are the way you are.. all I am saying is it may or may not be a genetic thing. I dont know and neither do u. You seem increasingly to dismiss genetics as being a part of what u are... ok ur choice.. but genetics influences our choices..it does not determine them.. there is a difference.. at the end of the day however..if we lived in a society worth a damn.. this debate should never be necessary!

[Giggles100]

It looks like the old "Bisexual is a choice thing again :rolleyes:".

My names Jim.... and I'm an Alco.... Bisexual :bigrin:.

I like girls, I think Gwen off Torchwood looks great in a Police uniform :bigrin: but then I like Owen too because he's a bit cheeky :tongue:. See thing is I like boobies, ass, pussy, cock but most of all a great personality and funny quirks that make me smile and chuckle to myself. I'v tried to look at girls the way straight men do and men the way gay men do and........ it doesn't work for me!

Its more complex than that though. Most people assume I like gay men and straight girls. Wrong, I like normal guys who look after themselves. I'm a fan of the surfy look and don't like muscles or fat much at all :bigrin:. I also have a thing for tomboys. Well when I say thing its possibly an obsession and the cause of massive crushing when I meet a cute, spiky haired androgynous girl. People look at me daft when I look at a picture of a blond bimbo and a cute tomboy and I want the tomboy. First thing I noticed on this years Celebrity Big Brother was Lady Sovereign :bigrin:. And she's Bi too apparently, even yummier! She already makes me smile uncontrollably when she's on camera :rolleyes:.

Speaking of other Bi's I love Bi girls and for the most part Bi men. I find gay men a little bit too full on and brash (think Queer as folk) and straight girls a little boring and too femme :(.

I don't sleep around although I suspect I might have slept with more people than the "norm". I'd never admit it though as people already think Bi people are sluts so I keep that info to myself in real life. I have a pretty defined idea of the type of people I'm attracted to and If you don't fit its akin to trying to make a petrol car run on diesel. Sorry its not going to happen. So the whole twice as likely to have a date thing is.... well rubbish really.

I like theme parks, the chuckle brothers, snowball fights, water fights, paint parties and sofa Sundays. I also like deciding to do things on a whim and I'm a little disorganised and probably too laid back too care.

I find straight males odd. I don't get the ogling everything that wears a skirt ethic, and besides if it wears a skirt its unlikely to be a tomboy anyway :rolleyes:. Having said that I find it hard to ogle men either as so few tend to match with my type. When one does though you can find me In a slushy, sweaty, crush induced pool at the end of the bar :bigrin:.

I'v been told my style is scruffy chic. Either way I wear knackered trainers/t shirt and the most awesome pair of boot cut jeans going. I have a scary love of leather bomber jackets and scarf's in many different colours. Atleast no one could accuse me of following trends :bigrin:. I'm a 20 something guy who's been told he's cute looking and I do get people chasing me..... mostly the wrong type though (see above part regarding twice as likely to be on a date).

I'm now out to my friends although not to my mum which kills me. My mum kinda knows (sixth sense or something) though and she did try and bring it up a few years ago. My dad ignored the conversation and said after that he knows I like girls and I'm not a puff. I thought about that for 2 weeks and eventually broke down in work one day. I eventually saw a doctor and a psychologist who diagnosed me as depressed. That lasted for about a year (well I think) and my mum said one day "you should do whatever you feel right doing. I'm proud of you". I came out to my friends and started to research and find myself as a Bisexual person. The more I read the more I realised it was me down to a Tee! Iv never been happier than I am now though.

I love all my friends regardless of gender. I don't try to shag either my male or female friends I just like to hang with them and help them when I can. I like to listen to peoples problems and have kept more things secret on behalf of people than should be humanly possible. I like blue sky's and stary nights and that funny oil smell engine powered lawn mowers make.

I like to play the guitar and although I won't win x factor I'v taken singing lessons and can hold a tune fine. I can draw quite well too and have a cool selection of drawings of places I'v been in the world. I'l probably frame them when I settle down but until then they'll travel wherever the wind carries me :bigrin:.

I'm a Kinsey 2 that sometimes moves up to 3 for some reason? I'v no Idea if its normal for your Kinsey score to shift but mine does?

So that's me.... I'm Jim and I'm a bisexual :bigrin:

Wow that was quite therapeutic too!

[jamiehue]

damn jim. are u a famous author or something...

[Giggles100]

My name ain't Jim lmao! I didn't fancy putting my real name there as there is a little personal info :bigrin:

I'm no great writer! My spelling can be terrible at times and as for punctuation and sentence structure! Nooooooooo lmao!

I feel quite good after writing that though. There's a funny thing?

[indigohippiechic]

Because, as my gay friend puts it--all bi-sexual people are PPA-"Pretty Poisoned Apples" We come with GADS of baggage, we are WONDERFUL to look at, but one bite and they are SUCKED in to all the drama and endless indecision we carry about us...(and we usually get all the hot looking guys/girls for ourselves that they were scouting *winks*


YAY for opportunists! ^_^

[darkeyes]

Because, as my gay friend puts it--all bi-sexual people are PPA-"Pretty Poisoned Apples" We come with GADS of baggage, we are WONDERFUL to look at, but one bite and they are SUCKED in to all the drama and endless indecision we carry about us...(and we usually get all the hot looking guys/girls for ourselves that they were scouting *winks*


YAY for opportunists! ^_^

...now..this is as much bolloks as me has ev read bout this subject....:eek::(

[AdamKadmon43]

Why do some gay men have difficulty grasping the concept of sexual fluidity?

"Sexual fluidity"???

Would you be so kind as to explain to me exactly what the hell "Sexual fluidity" is.

I suspect that people have entirely too much time on their hands.... and they spend all that time worrying about how they can deal with their (and others) sexuality, (or "sexual fluidity" if you will) and which god is the more appropriate one to worship, and which political (ugh) party they should associate themselves with, and who is going to win some dumb-ass football or basketball (you seen one... you seen everything that is ever gonna happen) game.

I think that the world would be much better off if there was some sort of global disaster that wiped out dumb ass people like me and you, and got us back to a more definative version of natural selection. That may be just about the only hope we have to survive as a species.

I think you know what I mean. We seem to, some how or other, think that it is really neat and cool to hold stupid people's hands from cradle to grave and make sure that they survive in order that they may produce more dumb-ass, stupid children.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about "sexual fluidity" or whether or not you should eat cum, or whether pussy or cock is preferable, and more time thinking about why the fuck you are even here.

I apologize for having gone on and on about it, but i can't sleep and I have gotten bored.

[Canticle]

"Sexual fluidity"???

Would you be so kind as to explain to me exactly what the hell "Sexual fluidity" is.

I suspect that people have entirely too much time on their hands.... and they spend all that time worrying about how they can deal with their (and others) sexuality, (or "sexual fluidity" if you will) and which god is the more appropriate one to worship, and which political (ugh) party they should associate themselves with, and who is going to win some dumb-ass football or basketball (you seen one... you seen everything that is ever gonna happen) game.

I think that the world would be much better off if there was some sort of global disaster that wiped out dumb ass people like me and you, and got us back to a more definative version of natural selection. That may be just about the only hope we have to survive as a species.

I think you know what I mean. We seem to, some how or other, think that it is really neat and cool to hold stupid people's hands from cradle to grave and make sure that they survive in order that they may produce more dumb-ass, stupid children.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about "sexual fluidity" or whether or not you should eat cum, or whether pussy or cock is preferable, and more time thinking about why the fuck you are even here.

I apologize for having gone on and on about it, but i can't sleep and I have gotten bored.



Goodness me!!

[mikey3000]

"Sexual fluidity"???

Would you be so kind as to explain to me exactly what the hell "Sexual fluidity" is.

I suspect that people have entirely too much time on their hands.... and they spend all that time worrying about how they can deal with their (and others) sexuality, (or "sexual fluidity" if you will) and which god is the more appropriate one to worship, and which political (ugh) party they should associate themselves with, and who is going to win some dumb-ass football or basketball (you seen one... you seen everything that is ever gonna happen) game.

I think that the world would be much better off if there was some sort of global disaster that wiped out dumb ass people like me and you, and got us back to a more definative version of natural selection. That may be just about the only hope we have to survive as a species.

I think you know what I mean. We seem to, some how or other, think that it is really neat and cool to hold stupid people's hands from cradle to grave and make sure that they survive in order that they may produce more dumb-ass, stupid children.

Maybe you should spend less time worrying about "sexual fluidity" or whether or not you should eat cum, or whether pussy or cock is preferable, and more time thinking about why the fuck you are even here.

I apologize for having gone on and on about it, but i can't sleep and I have gotten bored.
Here's a tip for you. In polite society, when adults are having an intelligent conversation, if one has nothing intelligent to add, it's best to say nothing at all.

[darkeyes]

Here's a tip for you. In polite society, when adults are having an intelligent conversation, if one has nothing intelligent to add, it's best to say nothing at all.

No argument from me this time Mikey babes.. Adam has obviously got far 2 much time on 'is hands 2 rite so much an say absolutely nowt!:tong:

[Canticle]

You need two things.

1. You need to get laid.
2. You need to stop worrying about what everyone else is wanting to think about.

You also need one more thing.

1. Stop hating on sports fans. OK, you don't see the point. We get it. Now STFU. Nothing pisses me off more than someone who just simply must tell us what idiots we're being because we do something that they find boring. I could go into a diatribe about the the benefits to society of sports. But, it would be long, and far more boring, and I have a football game on the DVR I have to watch before work.

Pasa

Nah...he doesn't need to get laid...cos that isn't the aswer to everything.

Sport...nah...he'll ever chage his mind there. I'm not mad on sport...but I can enjoy watching certain events. Heck field and track always seems boring...until the Olympics comes along....then it seems quite exciting. I loathe soccer, but can enjoy a special match. Wish I'd had the chance to take Adam to a Cricket match...deadly slow and boring or fast and exciting..and boy do I swear when England plays the Aussies.

Adam's rants may piss one off (and I should know...I've had the wagging finger), but like us all, he has a right to his views. Just wish he didn't think, he was never wrong.

[tenni]

hmm
So, its because gays are not into sports and getting laid enough that they dislike bisexuals?...

Do I have that right? :bigrin:

[Canticle]

Here's a tip for you. In polite society, when adults are having an intelligent conversation, if one has nothing intelligent to add, it's best to say nothing at all.

He does go on a bit, doesn't he?

I think what Adam had to say, was quite intelligent.....especially as I agree with a lot of what he said...but Oh, dear...it's presentation, presentation, presentation and inclusion, inclusion, inclusion, of bringing into play and ackowledging that other points of view, are also valid. Discussion being a two way thing...never one sided.

So...in part...I have to agree with you.

[Bi-Zarro]

I haven't met any gay men in real life who dislike bisexuals. Only online. My real life gay friends (all of whom have boyfriends, none of whom I've fooled around with) had no problem with my coming out as bi to them. (They were more surprised than anything else -- "YOU?!? REALLY?!? Oh, well OK" is apparently the standard response to my coming out -- and I never thought I was that butch to begin with!)

Anyway...interesting link of the day:
http://www.queerbychoice.com/

[mikey3000]

Wow, Bi-Zarro. Great link! Thanks a bunch!

[Bisexual Explorer]

Me thinks ye protest too much! Why do any of you care whether some gay men hate, love, or are neutral to bisexuals? I don't, because it doesn't matter to me. Let's accept who we are and focus on others who do likewise.
g

[mikey3000]

I disagree. At least for me.

I didn't choose this. If my choices were the only thing at play here, I would have been the straight, conservatively sexual person I was taught and brought up to be. My sexuality changed somewhere along the way. I still love women, but there is something about the idea of a cock that just simply excites me. 10 years ago, the mere idea would have repulsed me, and the thoguht of actually touching a cock would have made me nauseous.

Are there choices we make in what we do about it? Absolutely. But that does not mean that we choose our sexuality.

Pasa

One thing to be sure of. As with all other "medical conditions" that are genetic, along with all other genetic tampering that science is doing, if it is determined that one's sexuality is genetic, there will be a whole new type of scientific entrepneur who will be all too willing to remove homosexuality/bisexuality from your familial gene pool permanently. If it is now possible to custom order a baby...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/03 ... ty_cl.html

why not order a straight one too, especially since no one would ever want to be gay/bi. Imagine a world with no homo/bi sexuals, with that malady whiped off the face of the Earth. Believe me,the possibility is much closer than you think. Then what?

[Holmes]

I have found that this only seems to be an on line phenomenon . The gays and lesbians I know when they have been told and supportive. In fact they were trying to convince me that I wasn't bi but mearly metro and my response was you see how I dressdo I seem metro to you? When I had my first exposure to bi phobia they were all in agreement that the guy was nothing more than asshole who ws unhapppy. Since that bout I have found a fewguys who just like me for me and don't care that I'm bi. So like everything else it takes all types

[ErosUrge]

Mikey,
We are BISEXUAL and there is nothing to get over.

Couldn't have said it better myself. After years of living under what other's expectations and idea are of who and what I should be, I finally learned to be honest with myself about being bi. I've had my own experiences with gay men saying the same crap to me. It simply comes down to the fact that they're incapable of grasping what it means to be bi; to be attracted to the opposite sex...it's simply not in their makeup. What's irritating is when anyone tries to dictate what you're sexuality should be. Even some bisexuals have an arrogance and feel superior to others just because they're into both sexes. I think we all need to get over this and simply accept one another regardless of what our sexuality is. So I hear you loud and clear....
There's no point in ever trying to get such gay people to understand or anyone whose social/world view is limited by their incapacity and narrow mindedness. Ignorance in this case is unacceptable in my opinion and you can't change their viewpoint and that's okay. But I think we should always speak up and let them know each and every time how we feel and leave it at that. Because chances are (as I have experienced), your comments will still not change them. It is what it is....

[Giggles100]

Gosh this thread is still going :rolleyes:.

If you ventured out into "the scene" you would realise that Gay/Lesbian people don't hate Bisexuals! I'v loads of friends covering just about every angle of the LGBT rainbow and we are friends because? Well they are nice people and I'd like to think am I too :bigrin:.

The only Bisexual peep's who believe this crap are the ones who hide in the shadows and have no real experience of life outside the closet!

Sure Gay people might not understand us entirely. We don't understand them though do we? In exactly the same way straight people wouldn't understand completely how Gay/Bi people think. It doesn't stopping us having a good old time and socialising/living/fucking/crying and being true friends with each other does it!

I'm not completely blind though. I know there are some true bell-ends at Stonewall and other organisations who think that Bi people don't exist or are the same as them. Thankfully these people are of the older generation and are being rapidly replaced now by younger more educated counterparts (thank god everyone goes to Uni these days) who are making little changes everyday :flag4:.

Life will never be perfect though will it? Everyone has stereotypes attached to what they do or are. All straight men are sex mad bastards. Gay's love Bette Davis. Lesbians bring a removal van to the second date. Bisexuals are a bit promiscuous. Old men are all perverts. Single mothers are slags. Muslims are evil. blond women are bimbo's. red heads are nasty and angry. accountants are boring. dentists commit suicide alot. estate agents are habitual liars.

See where I'm coming from? You would have to be the most boring fucker who does nothing but sit in your house watching telly to not have a stereotype associated with you :bigrin:.

[rissababynta]

As far as the choosing of sexual orientation, this is how I stand on it: we are the way we are and whether we choose to act upon it and accept it or not is the choice we have in the matter.

As much as I disagree with Mikey saying it was a choice for him, I don't agree with others telling him he's wrong. Most people here seem to agree that we are the way we are and we can't help that. We can't help who we are attracted to, it just happens. In this case, it is NOT a choice. However, none of us are Mikey (um, except him of course haha) and none of us are able to get inside his head or his life. Therefore, whether we agree or not, I still feel that none of us should be telling him outright that he is wrong, because as long as we are ourselves, and he is him, we just don't know.

So calm down puhlease everyone :bigrin:

[mikey3000]

As far as the choosing of sexual orientation, this is how I stand on it: we are the way we are and whether we choose to act upon it and accept it or not is the choice we have in the matter.

As much as I disagree with Mikey saying it was a choice for him, I don't agree with others telling him he's wrong. Most people here seem to agree that we are the way we are and we can't help that. We can't help who we are attracted to, it just happens. In this case, it is NOT a choice. However, none of us are Mikey (um, except him of course haha) and none of us are able to get inside his head or his life. Therefore, whether we agree or not, I still feel that none of us should be telling him outright that he is wrong, because as long as we are ourselves, and he is him, we just don't know.

So calm down puhlease everyone :bigrin:


Thanks, Rissa. Very nice.:bigrin:

But I still stand by my decision FOR ME. For me it is a choice, I express my right to choose and take full responsibility for my actions. Did I have a craving for boys earlier on in life, no. Had experiences, but didn't really care for them. Then got older and craved women. Then in my mid thirties, started to crave men. Does that mean I'm gay now, that I was in denial my whole life? Hell no!!! I am Bi sexual. And I can sleep with only guys for the rest of my life and I'll still be bisexual, cause I once had and loved the most amazing woman on the planet. To deny my heterosexuality would mean to deny her. Not gonna happen. FOR ME, (and note, I said for me, don't ya'll go tellin me my feelings about me are wrong!) I changed. And I choose to act on it. And I'm totally ok with it. Whether ya'll are or aren't isn't my issue. It's yours. But I'm so happy how things are turning out.

Cheers
Mikey!!!