Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson-Homo erotic or ?

[tenni]

I was talking to a friend about the latest film Sherlock Holmes starring Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law. I saw it and he reported what has been written about this film. He said some reviewers report the homoerotic overtone of the film. I didn't see it as I watched the film. I saw a close friendship between the two characters. Both have female love interests but their own relationship is one of colleagues with a banter of male friendship. At one point they are arguing over Holmes borrowing Watson's waistcoat. Watson demands it back and takes it from Holmes while they are in a carriage. Watson then throws the waistcoat out the window and smiles at Holmes. I'm not sure if that is homerotic or not?

If you've seen the film, what's up?

If not... Where does the boundary between men fall as far as a close friendship and a homoerotic friendship? Does it differ than the relationship between two women? Do we hear of two women's friendship referred to as a homoerotic friendship?

[mikey3000]

I've read all the Sherlock Holmes stories and have found them to rather homoerotic in content, just like Agatha Christie's character, Hurcule Poirot and his companion, Captain Hastings.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but heard that it had to be heavily edited to remove plenty of homoeroticism and ake it more appealing to a wider audience. I will go see the film soon.

[onewhocares]

I've read all the Sherlock Holmes stories and have found them to rather homoerotic in content, just like Agatha Christie's character, Hurcule Poirot and his companion, Captain Hastings.

I am not, nor would I ever consider myself to be anything but a common admirer of Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot. In all the years that I have been reading ( and as of late watching) the interpretation of the authors characters have I ever surmised, attributed or even given the wildest consideration that there would be anything but a professional relationship between Mr. Poirot and his side kick, Captain Hastings. Somehow I can not imagine Hercule being even remotely interested in Captain Hastings in a sexual, emotional or physical manner...it is SO not his style.

In the years that I have been watching the recreations of the stories of Mr. Poirot, wonderful portrayed by David Suchet, I cannot recall even ONE instance of the attraction of Poirot to Hastings. At times I imagine Hastings to be lacking of the intellectual character and substance of any equal or the man from Brussels....just my two cents.

Belle

[FalconAngel]

I was talking to a friend about the latest film Sherlock Holmes starring Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law. I saw it and he reported what has been written about this film. He said some reviewers report the homoerotic overtone of the film. I didn't see it as I watched the film. I saw a close friendship between the two characters. Both have female love interests but their own relationship is one of colleagues with a banter of male friendship. At one point they are arguing over Holmes borrowing Watson's waistcoat. Watson demands it back and takes it from Holmes while they are in a carriage. Watson then throws the waistcoat out the window and smiles at Holmes. I'm not sure if that is homerotic or not?

If you've seen the film, what's up?

If not... Where does the boundary between men fall as far as a close friendship and a homoerotic friendship? Does it differ than the relationship between two women? Do we hear of two women's friendship referred to as a homoerotic friendship?

We saw the film and there was nothing that I saw that was clearly homoerotic, but there was a demonstrated behavior that, if one of the characters were female, would easily be interpreted as sexual tension between the characters.

I also see it as a deep and personal friendship of two men that know each other as well as any two friends can know each other.

However, I can see how any society, ripe with sexual repression and homophobia, could see it as homoerotic overtones. They did seem a little "catty" with each other at times.

[Georgie_Girl]

After reading this thread, I went to see the movie on Tuesday. (At an IMAX theater, no less :) ) I thus developed this subplot in my head:

Holmes and Watson were together for a few years, Holmes putting Watson through hell with all his eccentricities. Near the end, Holmes met the thief (I can't remember her name) and had an affair with her. He loved them both, but Watson more, so he broke it off with her. Watson found out and left Holmes. He moved on and became involved with Mary. Watson still loves Holmes, but knows that he can't (or won't) change, so he decides to marry Mary. (Whom he loves as well.) Holmes tries to sabotage their relationship, fails, and by the end of the film decides that he'd rather see Watson happy with Mary than unhappy alone. :cutelaugh Yes, I do have a lot of time on my hands. :)

[gfofbiguy]

I completely agree with you, Belle. In fact, in several of the books (I can't remember the names offhand), Poirot even describes his "ultimate" female - one who dresses herself with care, makeup, etc. - and he even sort of has a "crush" on one of his foes, the Russian Countess (and Hastings always had his weakness for the redhead/auburn-haired women)...but I never, in all the years I've been reading Poirot and watching the movies, have thought that he and Captain Hastings had a "homoerotic" relationship. Hastings would never be Poirot's equal in intellect, anyways :) My :2cents:


I am not, nor would I ever consider myself to be anything but a common admirer of Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot. In all the years that I have been reading ( and as of late watching) the interpretation of the authors characters have I ever surmised, attributed or even given the wildest consideration that there would be anything but a professional relationship between Mr. Poirot and his side kick, Captain Hastings. Somehow I can not imagine Hercule being even remotely interested in Captain Hastings in a sexual, emotional or physical manner...it is SO not his style.

In the years that I have been watching the recreations of the stories of Mr. Poirot, wonderful portrayed by David Suchet, I cannot recall even ONE instance of the attraction of Poirot to Hastings. At times I imagine Hastings to be lacking of the intellectual character and substance of any equal or the man from Brussels....just my two cents.

Belle

[mikey3000]

Well, maybe it's just my fantastical brain working overtime. Besides, it made the stories that much more enjoyable in my mind.:bigrin:

[AdamKadmon43]

I was talking to a friend about the latest film Sherlock Holmes starring Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law. I saw it and he reported what has been written about this film. He said some reviewers report the homoerotic overtone of the film. I didn't see it as I watched the film. I saw a close friendship between the two characters. Both have female love interests but their own relationship is one of colleagues with a banter of male friendship. At one point they are arguing over Holmes borrowing Watson's waistcoat. Watson demands it back and takes it from Holmes while they are in a carriage. Watson then throws the waistcoat out the window and smiles at Holmes. I'm not sure if that is homerotic or not?

If you've seen the film, what's up?

If not... Where does the boundary between men fall as far as a close friendship and a homoerotic friendship? Does it differ than the relationship between two women? Do we hear of two women's friendship referred to as a homoerotic friendship?

You making far too much out of it....I saw it.... It' just a fuckin' movie.

Stop worrying about what it means and get a life.

[tenni]

Adam
That's the way that I saw it. It was others who saw the homo erotic stuff...:bigrin: I just wondered where the hell the line was that something was homo erotic or just guys being friends?

[SaraSaurus]

I haven't seen the movie but I am an avid lover of Doyle's books. While on occasion I have read things that could (loosely) imply homoerotic themes, you have to take it in the context of the times... and I'm fairly certain they are nothing more than my fan girly imagination. Watson does marry in the books and they also talk about Holmes possessing none of the "softer passions" and that all emotions, especially love, were abhorrent to him. So no, if there is a homosexual vibe to the movie, its not cannon.

[tenni]

I was talking with a different friend who had seen the movie. His perception was that it was not as much homo erotic as people in our era misunderstanding the Victorian era. Holmes was constantly going to the "club". Men of a certain class always spent time doing business and discussing politics in the company of other men at their club. There was a more commonly accepted view that we would see as mysogynist today. Women had their place and real discussions did not include women. You only discussed politics and important business in the company of other men.

In the scene where Holmes is introduced to Mary, Watson's fiancee, Holmes quickly assesses her station in life and her personal background as having been involved with another man who left her at the altar. Mary throws a glass of wine in Holmes' face correcting him before leaving the meal. Watson leaves after scolding Holmes. Holmes eats his meal as if nothing significant has happened. It was only a woman. This action may be more relevant to how women would act today rather than the Victorian era. I may be wrong but women may not have acted that way during the Victorian era. Although Holmes seems to resent Mary, he does eventually provide a replacement engagement ring by turning over the gem that was on his former lover's neck.

[jamiehue]

Homo erotic robert downey is all i heard selective hearing.jeremy brett (pbs) is really good at the portrail of s.h. ( out gay man kinda freaky lookin too!)

[darkeyes]

jeremy brett (pbs) is really good at the portrail of s.h. ( out gay man kinda freaky lookin too!)

..am not sure quite wotyas sayin 'ere Jamie hun.. that Sherlock wos a freaky lookin out gay man or wetha Jeremy Brett wos.. in the 1st place methinks Conan Doyle wud prob b horrified at modern day references 2 Holmes bein gay in ne way... but way he is written..its poss.. Conan Doyle's subconcious mayb?? ..he certainly wos nev out... an in case a Jeremy Brett? Not on ur Nellie.. the luv of 'is life died in the mid 1980's an 'e wos devastated.. an unless Jeremy Brett wos a gal.. then ther is no way 'e wos gay..

.. unless a course u hav ne evidence 2 the contrary..

Don wotch much telly.. an don go 2 cinema that often.. but will tellya that far as me has ev seen... Brett's depiction a the gr8 detective is quite simply the gr8est eva.. am a HUGE fan.. havn seen Downey yet..mite nev.. but doubt if 'e is fit 2 lace Jeremy Bretts boots in the part..