Luke: Come to the dark side of male sexuality!! (heavy, mechanical breathing)

[12voltman59]

Okay--I have been here four years plus now-----and that time marks my "exploration" of the part of me that desires sexual contact with other men.

It has been a learning experience to be sure. I have learned many things about myself that I had no idea that were there--and I have certainly learned a great deal more about human sexuality that I thought I already knew--especially the way that we males tend to practice our sexuality.

I am not trying to make any sort of value judgement---but goodness---with some of the things I see that men do---I can understand that many ladies are less than thrilled with the way we approach both sex and relationships.

While I have for the most part been "lucky" in that I have met some great, caring, compassionate and otherwise "good guys" in doing this---I have also had contact with some who are to be charitable---"less than nice."

I know that I have mentioned it before about a conversation I had earlier in 2009 with one former member of this site via Yahoo chat----he had decided to "go all in" in terms of his sexuality. He left his wife and marriage behind, started seeing guys, pretty much fucking or being fucked on a whim. He said that he gave up all pretenses of adhering to any sort of caps on his behavior--going to places like bathhouses and basically becoming a "cum dump" for any and all guys who wanted to fill either end of him.

He said that in that process---he is now HIV Poz--but yet he is out there in his hometown and elsewhere on a regular basis having unprotected sex-- many of his partners--so he says--are married guys who he fucks on a regular basis--without any sort of protection.

He told me that he and guys like him who actively seek sexual encounters with other Poz guys are called "bug chasers."

That people are out there who do that was a major revelation to me!!

It sure was "an eye opener" to be sure!!!!!!!!!

Well----I sure as hell don't go "play" at such places--and any desires I might have had floating around in my head to even consider going to a bathhouse to "play"----thanks to that guy---they got shot down, BIG TIME!!

I have met a few guys from here in the time I have been here--and have met a few from some other male "gay/bi" themed sites too--but I always have taken my time in meeting----and for the most part--that served me well.

It is interesting--that with guys who express an interest in me---I do put the brakes on those who hardly have ever talked to me before but will send me a message and say something like: "come on over here now so I can pound your ass and shoot my hot load, bareback in ya!"

Well--it might be exciting on one hand to get such messages and as many of you guys know-if you are in one of those horny moods--you have been looking at lots of whatever it is that turns ya on and by God--"you want it!" and are tempted to accept. Somehow--I muster the clarity of mind to slow the guy down by not immediately accepting the invite.

It seems in such cases----if I don't accept such a guy's "invite" right then and there---that is the only one I get from them----so I guess with them--its an "all or nothing deal." I know that most often--I will tell them----"maybe you can top me---but until I know you and see you have a clean blood test and see mine--you have to wear a rubber!"

Once again---that can also be a deal killer with many guys. I now say such things as "a test."

I know that if a person will not accept some reasonable suggestions such as "lets meet somewhere neutral at first to see if we like each other" or we are going to both use condoms--at least until we have some degree of familiarity and trust between us--then-- I am in the long run---much better off without meeting and dealing with them.

It does concern me--that apparently far too many guys don't, in their desire to "get cock"--throw due dilligence and caution to the wind by not "playing safe."

I have had some guys respond that I would at least like to know if we have some "like for each other" to some degree----the response: "chemistry--hell with that--I just want to suck your cock--you suck mine and maybe I will fuck you!!!"

All this sort of stuff does go to show me--that in so many cases----the way we males conduct ourselves sexually and relationally-----is kinda messed up, sorry to say.

It seems with many guys---as long as they "get their nuts off" that is all that matters to them.

Every other consideration is pretty much secondary to that one thing---getting off!!!!

It is an interesting aspect of this--that once you "get the taste for cock"---- it seems that you really want more and more cock--BADLY. And it seems that you are not happy with just one cock--you want any and all cocks that come along!!

It was never that way when it came to "poonani" (I really hate to use the term "pussy"--I find it sort of derogatory for some reason) I like "that stuff" too--but I never got the "hunger" for poonani like cock seems to engender. I know that other guys I have chatted with on this subject, say the same thing about their desire for cock.

The bug chaser guy said that this is one of the reasons he went down his path as he did--he said he became totally and completly obsessed with having cock in any and all ways--with no limit on it--come what may! He said that now he is Poz-that means he no longer has to be concerned with that--so he just goes for as much cock as he can get, and in the case of the unprotected married guys who repeatadly come to him--he fucks them with abandon.

I guess I don't really have much point in this post, it is simply a discussion of some of my observations regarding some of the seedier aspects of male sexuality that I have seen either directly or indirectly in my explorations of my "bisexual" side----I am sure it will stir some discussion--some reasonable and some heated--and some will probably get pissed at me for a post like this---but I am interested to hear what people have to say about this.

Do you think that male sexuality is somehow---out of "kilter"??? Do we really, far too often--let that little head take precedence over our bigger head and heart????

What does that say about us as persons if this is so???

I know that some women, like men, also approach their sexuality with a sort of "mercenary attitude"--but it seems not quite as much as do so many men.

[chris2962]

WOW! That's some pretty heavy stuff. I've taken the same approach you've laid out--meet first and play it safe. I have to say I think we do go "cock crazy," but i guess that just our make up. the male is the usual pursuer and it's true once we break that firewall and get some cock in us, there's no stopping. At least that's been my experience. I've stayed away from the "blow and go" types. I let a workout buddy have sex with me recently, but i insisted on a condom. I think we need to be able to enjoy each other, but we also want to stay disease free. To do otherwise just seems crazy. I'm looking forward to exploring my "bi" side further as 2010 unfolds, but I want it to be with guys like me, people who want to keep their bodies healthy and enjoy some good sex:)

[elian]

Everyone knows men are the biggest sluts around - just kidding - sort of.

It is peculiar and sometimes painful that women are ostricisted for being promiscuous while men are excused, or even sometimes encouraged to be very liberal with their libido.

There are a lot of folks that wonder if "monogamy" is a realistic goal for humans.

I was watching a documentary on bisexual people (http://www.logoonline.com/video/bi-the-way/1616890/playlist.jhtml). You can see the comments between 57:00 and 59:00 in the video.

A nice young lady researcher was talking about the fact she believes there are three different ways of thinking in humans that relate to mating:

1) Lust - Sex Drive
2) Romantic Love
3) Attachment

I have to admit, I have felt all of these, and even for different people at the same time. However, I still feel as through I should be dedicated to one person. I have found that it seems to take all of my time and energy to be emotionally invested in one partner.


I guess if you don't CARE about others feelings, or if everyone involved has known each other for a very long time maybe they could be comfortable in a poly situation. - I tried a relationship with a couple once and it was very difficult to make sure that everyone's needs were met, boundaries were not overstepped, etc.

[mikey3000]

Very well put Voltman!!! I have to totally agree with every word. When I first discovered my liking for guys, I went nuts too, but with one guy, for three years, who I knew was safe, and still always used protection. Since then I have always been cautious with my playmates. Never strangers, never anonymus, random hook ups. And all the male playmates I've had I could count on one hand. I value my life too much. But I have been propositioned many, many times with offers from guys to come to my office and even back yard. Very scary. I will rather go without then do that, cause what I need is not just the cock, buy the man attached to it on the other end.

[tenni]

Well, I think that Elian's statement about the three different ways of thinking in humans that relates to mating has validity.

Lust-Sex Drive is generally stronger in men for more of his adult life or we are more inclined to give it precidence. It isn't just biological as it may have some sociological factors but the lust factor is pretty strong for men. As Voltie refers to it men once unleashed by female control can get down and dirty pretty fast with other men. Once the taboo of guy/guy sex is overcome, there is little inhibition holding a horny guy back. Have you noticed that still in today's liberal sexual society women still control when the sex will happen between men and women? Whether it is the first encounter or ten years into a marriage, the woman holds the reins. Put two guys together and neither will hold back once they start getting naked or it will be rare that they stop before someone cums.

I've found humour in the term "men are pricks". Yep, we have em and we can be em....lol

The guy who gives into lust for guy /guy sex or has easy access to sex with multiple women via his "come on approach" eventually learns that lust without romance gets pretty shallow and empty though. There is no stronger truth to it. However, guys can remove the romance /attachment factor with another guy more so than he can with a woman. Two guys together as long as they accept the no romance, no attachment factor get to be slutty quickly ...for awhile. Even though he may know the shallowness of it, a guy will give in to the lust factor if certain circumstances come into play. Is it a dark side or is it a reality that society doesn't accept? I'm inclined to think that it is a reality of male sexuality. Any guy who thinks that he can get away with it without consequences will go for a piece of tail or dick once in awhile.

Regular on going slutty behaviour on the other hand is not good at all. Most guys eventually figure that out. Each guy has to come to his own place about his sexuality and his appetite. Promiscuity as far as gay sex is common in the early acceptance of male bisexuality or gay male sexuality. It is like a release valve but hopefully eventually the pressure comes down to an acceptable and sane level.

That guy that Voltie is referring to is more than likely reacting to first his liberation from being in a male/female monogomous relationship and now sadly a bit emotionally ill and affected by his HIV status. He was not able to come back to a balance where lust is not totally overwhelming him before he became HIV. It seems to have become a form of mental illness for him to react this way so that he is intentionally spreading HIV. In my country, he might be charged with murder if any of his victims die from HIV. Several have been convicted of that or a form of aggrivated sexual assault.(forget the actual term)

I do get a little pissed off when some coupled guy on here starts to tell another guy that he should get permission from his wife to get it on with a guy. Why, I'm not sure. I think that he is more than likely correct. Deep down though, if the same guy keep saying the same thing to every new guy, I suspect that he also is probably a bit like a fundamentalist preacher who speaks out against gay sex...only to be found out that he does it himself.

[Doggiestyle]

Volty I could not agree with you more!!! With most guys, especially the younger ones, it goes like this
smack,,,smack,,,smack,,,smack,,,smack,,,ooh,,,ahh, and thats it, were done now. Completely missing all the long term fun,,,,which is foreplay.

While "hit & run" sex will relieve you! A person is missing the better part of a sexual encounter, which is foreplay, which to me, makes the experience all the more intenseive and enjoyable.

While to me, sex seems to be the only thing in the world that "the further a guy gets behind on, the quicker he can catch up on. :tong: " If they miss out on the foreplay, they missed out on at least half the fun. And without foreplay I think that it's really doubtful, maybe impossible to get a woman to orgasm!

I also agree with you Volty about being very selective about how and who to have sex with. I gotta admit that I am fearful about havin spur of the moment, anonymous sex with a stranger. I am glad that i'm gettin old enough tha sex isn't as big a issue as it was in my teens 20's & 30's. By the time I got into my early 50's sex dosen't seem to be as big a issue as it was during my eariler years. Which to me, given the STD situation we nowdays have, i'm glad that non-stop lust and a rock hard dick don't point my way around like it did in my younger days.

I kinda feel sorry for the younger folks nowdays. Because I can remember how they feel, when you get "all lusted up" and gotta do something with it!!! I guess that's the reason for the "bug chaser" attitude. You don't know who has it (a STD), you can't tell by lookin at them, you could ask them but they probably don't know. If they did know, would they tell you the truth? Even I haven't been tested, how do I know that I don't allready have something??? I guess it's inevitable that I'll eventually catch something sometime!!! So I might as well quit worrying about it and hope for the best. Because my lust has got me so lusted up that I gotta do something, and soon too!!!

I may be wrong about this assumption about how the younger generation nowdays feel, if I am then let them chime in here and correct me. But lets face it, sex and lust are extremely powerful emotions and hard to control!!!

My :2cents: . Thats my story and i'm stickin to it, OK?.....Your friend, :doggie:

[citystyleguy]

now, this is a posting with meat! pun not intended, but your thinking brings some serious considerations. we men need to stop the excuses and be responsible for our actions; your example is someone who can find no pratical path, thus leaps from one confining norm, to plunge with complete abandon into the storm. with him, the lesson is too obvious, sad in that someone has abandoned what is beatiful between men, for nothing but trash sex. someone else said something about being a slut, and that word is descriptive of what far too many men are in their fearsome assualt on sexual pursuit!

it is difficult to find the appropriate words, but taking time to explore the nuances here is vital; my wife took that approach within her culinary world, the artists i know take careful consideration of what their art will say, then with appropriate abandon jumped in, the result being a creation of incredible beauty, satisfaction, and depth of feeling.

spontanous action is an important approach, but that can be best enjoyed and savoured with care, subtle observation, exploration, and respect. in my last sexual relationship with a man, we did a carful dance around each other; every partner, friend, aquaintance, whatever, have said the i am irritatingly exact, but kept up the pursuit because of my approach, to them it spelled out an appreciation and concern, rather than tedious demands.

however, when the dance was over, we plunged head-on into lust in all its imaginings; when we took our three-day benders (or longer), nothing was out of bounds! god i miss him!

take care in the approach, but once you reach an appreciation of each other, let go! avoid the sluts at all costs; i am sure that everyone here has been hit up by many sluts, and in our other arenas of life. tell them to fuck off, life is too short for that pile of crap! better yet, just igonre them, and they eventually go away! we live in a scary post-hiv world, all because some members of our extended society did just what your example did, fuck and be fucked by every thing that breaths! or maybe not! :rolleyes: so we have to be responsible if we are to enjoy the here and now, as well as the future!

horny as hell, but careful and glad of it!

[elian]

Re-read volty's original comment - the only thing I can say is anything if taken to extremes can be abusive.

I just don't think I would be doing myself or anyone else a favor if my whole goal with relationships is to have sex with as many people as possible. Maybe for some people they don't realize all of the consequences at first.

HIV is definitely not "glamorous" in any way - I guess the same people that seek it out might be a different branch of the folks who are addicted to adrenaline.

[12voltman59]

I know my OP was a bit "heavy" and all---but I am glad we are having some good discussion on this---glad to know I am not the only one to make the same sorts of observations in this regard.

[piercedcurious]

Volty, THANK YOU SO MUCH. I just recently admitted to my self that I'm bi. I had started having fantasies about picking up some random stranger and diving right in. Your post opened my eyes to the dangers of that. I've been in a monogomus relationship so long that i'd forgotten that there are irresponibe (or worse)people out there. AIDS falling out of mainstream media could have been the end of me. Thank you again.:angel:

[tenni]

piercedcurious
Ok...yes STD and HIV are something to be aware of and careful about. However, don't be paralysed by fear of them. As Voltie says some guys will want to get their rocks off immediately. If they seem sleazy and indifferent, they may be risky to get involved with. Depending upon what you do, you may or may not be living dangerously. Use caution. Judge your potential partner and their sexual history. (if they are not interested in anal sex and have never been a bottom...that is a good sign...not absolutely certain but a good sign)

Perhaps, being an observer may be a good introduction without putting yourself in danger. Have your attennae up and check out the guy's personality to some degree. Some guys are going to lie to you but you're a guy and may be able to see through their BS.

How far safe sex should be adhered to has some variability. A guy who insists on a condom for oral sex is a very cautious guy from my perspective. Whether it is needed or not is a personal decision. I'm not interested in such a guy but you may be. If they are that cautious, I think that they have a lose nut as much as the super promiscuous ones. They are not likely to be a repeat sex buddy and have a few issues to resolve. However, they may be..your decision.

Factor in what you learn about the potential partner's character. Chat a bit. If they go to bath houses, that's a big no for me. (my bias) If your partner appears to be normal...he may be. I personally don't adhere to the condom for oral sex but neither do I go for cumming in my mouth. Jerking off, some oral , kissing, touching are all fairly safe sexual things to get into until you know the guy. Although that it is true that there no such things as absolutely safe other than abstaining.

Some guys are smooth in their approach. You've seen that type hit on chics. Some have a patter and just transfer it to guys. Laugh and enjoy their party attitude but be careful what you get into with them... if anything. A genuine guy who admits that he isn't perfect, let's some insecurity show through, honest, a little cautious himself, able to hold a conversation beyond the size of your dick and what he wants to do...plus more are all good signs that I pay attention to.

On the other hand, if you're horny and want the impersonal stranger fantasy...watch out...lol Just be careful what you get into. Watching each other stroke, Stroking both ways, him giving oral to you, kissing(many strangers won't go there though) and be very careful about fluid exchange but not paranoid.

Now, I feel like such a slut for even knowing this much...lol

[cliffordmontero]

As I came out as bi I did go through a "cock crazy" phase myself but I quickly changed my ways after befriending a poz guy. Kinda opens your eyes to things. And now after being out as bi about 7 years I have had many friends turn up poz. Its sad but at least its not the death sentence it once was. People go on 20 and 30 years with the disease now. And now I work for a group called Southern Tier Aides Prevention . . . so I see the full effects of how it can affect your life . . . if you must play play safe, be smart, its your life, use it well

[void()]

Ignorant attitudes like yours about how having HIV/AIDS is not a big deal anymore and go on living for 20 to 30 years after having a majorly compromised immune system are just exactly why people are still getting sick and becoming Poz.

The number of partners that you have does not matter as long as you are having safe sex and continue to have it.

Yes HIV/AIDS can still be a death sentence. I have had friends die from AIDS and they quickly got it after becoming Poz and this happened a few years ago.

The medications for HIV/AIDS are very toxic and not good for your body.

If they work for you and continue to keep working they can manage HIV so you do not die as fast as you would if you were not on meds.

The meds have horrible side effects and many people do die from opportunistic infections and from the medications.

You can even have multiple strains of HIV and get reinfected despite what people with a death wish think.

Honey, can you back it down a few notches? I didn't read their post as espousing an ignorant attitude. It seemed more like a middle of the road sort of posting. "Hey, HIV is out there. Be safe." Um, sorry not seeing that as ignorant or having a death wish. Relax, mkay?

[Hephaestion]

Bret LA is right.

Anyone who is HIV +ve or has AIDS who does not reveal this to a partner is guilty of a minimum of assault ranging to attempted murder in some countries.

AIDS tends to be a s-l-o-o-w awful death. Prolonging a crap life with progressive ailments is not ideal. It is shocking to behold and a terrible drain on the medical resources. (Documentaries on gun crime visiting ER's show shot young men in great agony rather than bathing in the beautified 'film' version of events).

There are pockets of the human race where natural HIV/AIDS immunity has developed. Whether it is within the ingenuity of man to harness this remains to be seen. Not holding one's breath on this is the best idea. Right now the only way that this is going to succeed is when the HIV/AIDS prone people die off to be replaced by those who aren't; meanwhile the HIV's should play the game and not mutate in the process.

If one suspects HIV/AIDS then the best recommenation is 'don't' until the test results come thru and one knows for sure the risk involved; rubber can always break.

Probably the best strategy is to find someone who does not have AIDS and is not HIV +ve to play with and stay safe that way.

.

[NEPHX]

Bret LA is right.
If one suspects HIV/AIDS then the best recommenation is 'don't' until the test results come thru and one knows for sure the risk involved; rubber can always break.

Probably the best strategy is to find someone who does not have AIDS and is not HIV +ve to play with and stay safe that way.
.

This is Uninformed advise. And once written on the Internet, it will be there forever. ITS WRONG. One set of test results does not tell you that you are not HIV+. Three sets over 6 months give you a high probability that you are not positive.. This 3/6-month window keeps moving out as a person has encounters that could have been risky.

The best strategy is to assume everyone you sleep with is HIV Positive. That's the golden rule. Ask but assume but know your own status. Learn about HIV.

Condoms of good quality rarely rarely break. If they break, its generally because they are not being lubricated properly (inside and out) or don't fit properly (too small, too tight) or even too old or stored wrong (too cold, too hot).

If you, as a male wearer of a condom, do not know what it feels like when a condom breaks, you should start figuring it out. Its usually pretty easy to tell if you are paying attention. Remember you're supposed to be attentive to your partners needs as well as your own. And your safety also comes first. The receiver (M or F) should check occasionally to make sure the condom is still there and intact just as a matter or course... make it part of the fun. And, don't let a stranger cum inside of you with a condom on.

A single set of test results IS NOT a valid indicator of one's status. Incubation period to detect enough antibodies (depends on the test but this is the most common test) take up to 3-months to register. Three (3) consecutive tests (1st, 2,nd one in 3 months, 3rd one in 3-more months) will give you and indicator if all negative and YOU had no unsafe sexual contact (of statistical significant risk - ie bb, etc.) then one can assume with high probability that THEY are negative.

But, they can not and should not assume their partner is negative unless they are willing to trust their "life" to that person. Think of ALL THOSE MARRIED men sleeping with the "Bug chaisers" without protection! And then they sleep with their spouses/gf/bf/fwb/fbuddies whatever.... time bombs.

It is actually rather difficult to get HIV unless you are receptive vaginally or anally without protection or blood to blood contact, etc. CDC has charts at all clinics with the increase of probability of each sexual behavior. The more partners, the more likely you will be "exposed to someone with HIV" vs "being directly exposed TO HIV in a fluid that carries it" unless you fail to use safer sex practices.

HIV/AIDS is one of the handful of diseases with a 100% mortality rate. (YES 100%). If you don't get killed by something else first, eventually, in the current medical situation, you will die of HIV/AIDs.

More people than any common laymen would suspect become positive when they think they are in a monogamous relationship & their partner (be it mm mf couple, triad, whatever) steps out, makes a mistake, is foolishly uninformed, etc. and then comes back and infects the other partner/wife/husband. And so on and so on. More people get infected by people that do NOT KNOW THEIR STATUS than by people that DO know they are HIV+. Most HIV+ people are on meds which also helps reduce the transmission if an accident happens. And, those people are generally more likely to be very careful with the people they are with (not including the hook-up artists).

One of the sleeper cells of HIV is the teens and 20's of today and the Abstinence sex ed. vs. responsible safer sex education. They think a few pills will cure all. I spend time answering questions on several other forums on this topic and it constantly amazes me of how uninfromed people are. Many thing that HIV has a cure. There is no cure or working valid vaccine.

And, the various survival meds are SUPER EXPENSIVE. $1000s for each of the 2-3 various meds each person requires PER MONTH. And, then there are other drugs to help with the side-effects, mental health meds, etc.

Health care is on its ass.... Ryan White funding is on the decline. Donations to such organizations supplying drugs are on the decline, state health programs are eliminating adults and children from their health plans for the poor/uninsured for budgetary issues by the 1000s (370,000 in AZ in the next 7-10 months).

The current generation of teens and 20s have access to the Internet, cell phones, and ways to "hook up" that no generation had before. Sexiting, anal sex as a form of birth control!!!! HIV does not really register on the minds of most teens that are str8.

Being bi or gay is often all the rage with young women and even young men (I have a 10th grader).

[Luffly1]

He didn't have the attitude that HIV is no big deal. He was thankful that some of his friends won't be dying in 2 years like they used to. And you've been told this. You are refusing to listen.



Pasa

Yes that is pretty much what he had said. It seems as though Bret is just picking and choosing what part of his comment he wants to highlight in order to create an easy argument. I hope no one takes that personally :)

[Hephaestion]

NEPHX

The advice is sound

"...until the test results come thru and one knows FOR SURE the risk involved.."

If that takes more than one test and / or more time to convince of being clear, then so be it.

The safety stance and circumstances that are advocated and described in your message tpowards minimising risk are good however there is no 100% certainty that HIV transmission will not occur. As in the joke 'what is the best contraceptive in the world?' the answer is the same - "NO!" (until certainty of risk). That is just the sexual side. Other transmission routes are appreciated.

AIDS is not a spontaneous ailment, it is transmitted. The status rewarding sexually adventurous lifestyles being portrayed in the media e.g. Friends and How I met you mother need to be knocked on the head.

If one's partner(s) cannot be trusted they should be ditched. Even the 'usual' STD's are begining to show resistance to treatments.

If you say that our words will persist electronically then hopefully our 'fencing' will be read in its entirety and the varying (rather than opposing) points of view will help awarness.

Regards