International Day To End Violence Against Sex Workers

[cand86]

It was yesterday (I wanted to post it earlier, but got side-tracked . . . not to mention I only found out by the end of the day). I'm embroiled in a pretty intense Facebook debate just for posting a simple status update about how horrible violence against sex workers is, and it's depressing me immensely.

So this is a double request- cheer me up a bit by reassuring me that there are still people out there who think it's wrong and utterly unacceptable to rape and kill a prostitute, and that it should not "come with the territory".

And then feel free to share any thoughts, experiences, and stories about sex work, sex workers/clients, or IDTEVASW.

[darkeyes]

Think mos peeps agree that violence gainst sex workers is rong. Not every 1 cos ther r sum rite sikkos on this planet..have had lil personal experience a sex workers cept 2 say that 2 a the peeps me luffs mos dearly in the world.. 1 did sell 'ersel for a wile 2 feed 'er addiction.. an 1 almos extered inta that same world 2 make ends meet as she went through university.. a common occurence nowadays. The 1st had violence inflicted on 'er more than 1ce..an still has a few scars both physical an mental 2 remember it by. Thankfully she got out fore things cud get 2 bad thanks 2 'er parents who dragged 'er forcefully off the street an return 2 the world a the livin. the second didn do it in end but she has no doubt that she wudn b the same person 2 day had she not thanks 2 gud friends, a wich me has the reel honour a bein but 1, an been provided wiv the resources 2 help 'er through an pay 'er bills.

No 1 .. no matta ther job.. shud b subjected 2 ne kind a abuse or violence cos a wot they do 2 earn a livin.. sadly in case a sex workers society's unfeelin uncarin attitudes ensure that they r treated as almos less then human by customers (not all but many) an authorities alike.. bout time thaqt changed an they wer allowed 2 make that livin wiviout fear or favour.. an b allowed 2 live wiv the dignity they deserve.. until it is decriminalised properly, both by statute an societal attitudes.. sadly this will nev happen.

[rissababynta]

Hey, just because she/he has sex as their profession doesn't mean they are entitled to be forced upon. No means no, no matter what your job is.

[Jade Pecker]

I agree that sex workers should not be subjected to violence. But remmeber they are the most vulnerable, and not everybody is as understaning as you or I. What we need to do is TEACH GUYS HOW TO SCORE! That and keep the ratio of females to males high. Ohterwise there will be gym and school shootings, suicide attacks, everything else the "losers" can think of to "even the score". We are sitting on a time bomb. I saw Columbine coming 25 year before it happened. I am the most understanding, compassionte, merciful man you will ever meet (with the male "losers" as well as everbody else), and you simply must listen to me. the next round is on you....R

[darkeyes]

I agree that sex workers should not be subjected to violence. But remmeber they are the most vulnerable, and not everybody is as understaning as you or I. What we need to do is TEACH GUYS HOW TO SCORE! That and keep the ratio of females to males high. Ohterwise there will be gym and school shootings, suicide attacks, everything else the "losers" can think of to "even the score". We are sitting on a time bomb. I saw Columbine coming 25 year before it happened. I am the most understanding, compassionte, merciful man you will ever meet (with the male "losers" as well as everbody else), and you simply must listen to me. the next round is on you....R

R u sayin wot me thinks u r sayin?? Or havya jus not thot it through?? Selective breedin jus so guys can get laid?? Mayb not wotya meant but thats wot it nsounds like....Jeez... male chauvinism strikes gain... think bout it a lil more hun.. foreya gets yasel inta trubble...

[tenni]

Although I agree with the idea that sex trade workers should not be expected to accept violence and in theory agree with the sex trade being legal to remove the stigma, I do have a woman relative who was a sex trade worker who has used me and all of her family members in a nasty destructive way.

I know her psychological make up to put it bluntly is screwed up. She was screwed up before she decided to turn to the sex trade and in fact turned to it because of her approach to life is not good. She even asked me to babysit her illegitmate child so that she could explore the edges of the sex trade by being a stripper at the age of 18. I knew that it was not a good approach and refused to support her decisions by babysitting for her. She had permitted herself to be in situations where guys became violent over and over again from an early age. Her choice of words and behaviour seems to have taken her to a position where she was thrown through windows even in her mid teens. She claimed to be a victim of sexual abuse from her father but the family or at least I could not fully understand and accept her accusation. I tried and others tried to support her emotionally but she turned on us, used us and justifies her actions to herself. I am her maternal uncle. Her sisters and now her mother have had to cut ties with her to protect ourselves from her "user" approach to life. She has had good men in her life and ended up driving them away.

I know something happened to her to make her this way. I believe that she was sexually abused but I and others do not know who did it. She had flash backs but could never fully recall who it was. She only assumed that it had to be her father. Maybe it was but that has not stopped her destructive behaviour towards those she loves including her own children. She used people before being and after being a sex trade worker. She seems to perceive people as a means to get things that she wants. She has turned to fundamentalists religion one day and tricking the next day if it gets her material goods.

I know that her thought process makes her act and make decisions that seem flawed. I know that after she left the sex trade that her life has continued down a path that is not good. I know that none of us in her family can accept her ways of thinking and we have had to separate ourselves from her so that we are not abused and manipulated. Her thinking was unproductive for a safe and happy life before she entered the sex trade and it continued to be problemsome for her after.

I can not therefore say that being a sex trade worker is a good thing and "just" as healthy and a good choice that it should be equated with raising social awareness. Changing men's behaviour does not necessarily make it all better for a sex trade worker.

[darkeyes]

Tenni.. I agree that changing men's attitudes and behaviour is not the whole answer.. but it is at the very least a very large part of the answer. Changing society's attitude and stopping the persecution which society and its patrons inflict upon people in the sex trade.. men as well as women.. and allowing them to have exactly the same rights and protections under law as the rest of the workforce would improve their lot to such a degree that our world would immediately be a better place in which to live. It is of course a very small cause.. but important nonetheless.. especially to those who are employed in the sex trade,and little becomes our species as much as showing compassion, understanding and acceptance of another's life choices, just as contrarily little shows up its odiousness and hypocrisy as condemning them for those lifestyle choices.

People do things for many reasons. In the case of those who enter the sex trade, often BECAUSE they are damaged individuals, and yes many are not nice, (but then many are not nice in more "respectable professions and act much as the person u were talking about in your post), often because of external pressures and sometimes just because they wish to. What is certain is that the way we as a society look upon and treat sex workers, prostitutes probably more than any other, though in other areas as well, compounds that damage at the very least or creates damage where there was none before. Our society treats them like something picked up off the street on its shoe. A sea change in attitude is necessary and all of us need to play our part in making that change every bit as much in this case as in the case of the Lesbians Gays Bisexualsand Transexuals. Many of whom may I add are in fact Lesbians Gays Bisexuals and Transexuals, and for whatever reason are trying to make a living, and so it disappoints me that knowing this, the topic does not seem to merit a greater outpouring of concern among members of the site. However having said that, little suprises me these days on site when it comes to important human issues.

Whatever we think personally about the sex trade does not give us the right to treat those employed in that trade as so much dirt. They are human beings and they deserve the right to work every bit as much as the bobby on the beat, the tradesman, health worker, office worker or anyone else.. and to enjoy the protection of our society such as it offers just like anyone else, and to make a decent living without fear or favour from customer, pimp, the law or any other among us.

A good choice tenni? A healthy one? Those are subjective judgements although I do substantially agree with you. I know I couldnt do it. However, if we were a little less hypocritical as a society and less judgemental and oppressive, and more understanding, accepting and compassionate,maybe then it would be a good and every bit as healthy a choice.

[Caaveman]

It was yesterday (I wanted to post it earlier, but got side-tracked . . . not to mention I only found out by the end of the day). I'm embroiled in a pretty intense Facebook debate just for posting a simple status update about how horrible violence against sex workers is, and it's depressing me immensely.

So this is a double request- cheer me up a bit by reassuring me that there are still people out there who think it's wrong and utterly unacceptable to rape and kill a prostitute, and that it should not "come with the territory".

And then feel free to share any thoughts, experiences, and stories about sex work, sex workers/clients, or IDTEVASW.

Most people really think that it's soo terrable for a cop to get shot in the line of duty. Even though from the time they start their training they are told that this is probably how they will die or be injured while on the job. I used to think so highly of them because of the fact that they knew the danger and were still wanting to go out there and defend the rights of others. Until I was in Florida at an accident where a car had hit a gas truck (The tank was empty exccept for fumes) from the side and pierced the nipple valve on the bottom of the tank (which caused an explosion). I was standing there thinking how bad I felt about a fellow driver dieing just trying to do his job. I made a statment to the state trooper there about this. And he said oh hell he knew the dangers when he took this job. And that one statment made by one man changed my attatude toward all police. When I hear of one of them dieing or getting injured I always remember what he said on that day (He knew the dangers when he took the job), and I find it real hard to feel sorry for any of them (police) any more. My point being is that now "I believe that" they think that they are better than every one else and that every one (except their selves) deserves what ever comes to them (according to their job). Maby this is one more reason why their cars no longer have the logo of " to serve and protect" on them.

[tenni]

"Whatever we think personally about the sex trade does not give us the right to treat those employed in that trade as so much dirt. They are human beings and they deserve the right to work every bit as much as the bobby on the beat, the tradesman, health worker, office worker or anyone else.. and to enjoy the protection of our society such as it offers just like anyone else, and to make a decent living without fear or favour from customer, pimp, the law or any other among us.

A good choice tenni? A healthy one? Those are subjective judgements although I do substantially agree with you. I know I couldnt do it. However, if we were a little less hypocritical as a society and less judgemental and oppressive, and more understanding, accepting and compassionate,maybe then it would be a good and every bit as healthy a choice."

No, no one has the right to treat someone who has done nothing to them with disrespect. However, I'm not sure if some sex trade workers respect themselves. It is one thing for two or more humans to enter into a sexual non emotional play situation and another to commodify the sexual interaction and treat human sexual interactions as a commodity. Is that what you really want it to be? So many posters on this site get all strung out about cheating between humans. Is it not worse to dehumanize sexual interactions to the point that it becomes a commodity? To call people who do such things for a living "sex workers" may be going a bit too far. If I had not had a person that I'm related to end up being a sex worker, I might have been able to agree that it is ok to commodify them and see it as a service. However, I know that a person who treats themselves as a commodity and uses sex to obtain material goods is really cheating themselves out of being human. When a person must perform sexually to make money they are dehumanizing themselves. They are the worst type of cheater as they are cheating themselves out of really living a complete healthy well balanced life. I can no more support a family member's choice to be a sex trade worker than I can support them inflicting self mutilating wounds. With each trick, they injure themselves more and more. If I could be assured that the sex trade worker had made this decision with a well balanced psychologically healthy mind, then and only then does it seem appropriate to call it a service or such things. Otherwise, it continues the victimization of these people.

[darkeyes]

"Whatever we think personally about the sex trade does not give us the right to treat those employed in that trade as so much dirt. They are human beings and they deserve the right to work every bit as much as the bobby on the beat, the tradesman, health worker, office worker or anyone else.. and to enjoy the protection of our society such as it offers just like anyone else, and to make a decent living without fear or favour from customer, pimp, the law or any other among us.

A good choice tenni? A healthy one? Those are subjective judgements although I do substantially agree with you. I know I couldnt do it. However, if we were a little less hypocritical as a society and less judgemental and oppressive, and more understanding, accepting and compassionate,maybe then it would be a good and every bit as healthy a choice."

No, no one has the right to treat someone who has done nothing to them with disrespect. However, I'm not sure if some sex trade workers respect themselves. It is one thing for two or more humans to enter into a sexual non emotional play situation and another to commodify the sexual interaction and treat human sexual interactions as a commodity. Is that what you really want it to be? So many posters on this site get all strung out about cheating between humans. Is it not worse to dehumanize sexual interactions to the point that it becomes a commodity? To call people who do such things for a living "sex workers" may be going a bit too far. If I had not had a person that I'm related to end up being a sex worker, I might have been able to agree that it is ok to commodify them and see it as a service. However, I know that a person who treats themselves as a commodity and uses sex to obtain material goods is really cheating themselves out of being human. When a person must perform sexually to make money they are dehumanizing themselves. They are the worst type of cheater as they are cheating themselves out of really living a complete healthy well balanced life.

You fall into the trap of making sexual relations sound something sacred. They are not sacred, they are but a part of human living. No one dehumanises themself simply by selling their body, or making a porn movie or any other actvity within the sex trade. Al least not per se. There are other reasons why people within the sex trade are apparently dehumanised, and that brings us back to our society's attitude to selling sex. Of course sex should be fun. In the sex trade it is a job, often a chore, and often bloody awful. Its dangerous. All this because our world tells us that selling sex is a mortal sin, or inhuman, filthy or demeaning. Much of this is true. but not because it is selling sex per se. But because that is what we human beings have made it, how we consider it. And women, as well as man are at fault for this. It is a societal problem. Even the customers.. the buyers and watchers of pornography, the prostitute's client, the buyers of sex toys, and their sellers often look down on those who work in the trade and consider them somehow less.... It is so because we have decided for millenia that it is so. That sex workers are somehow less human than everyone else. And so it goes on, and because we tell them it is so.. so it is. And your post while well meaning perpetuates this attitude. It is not the activity which dehumanises, but our attitude to it, and the difficulties and pressures we place in the way of those people who, for whatever reason work as prostitutes porn actors, escorts or whatever.

I am a libertarian. If people wish to sell their bodies to make a living, let it be so. Anyone who sells themselves, whether as an employee of the government, or a private company is automatically a commodity. The self employed are commodities, for they too are selling themselves and their skills. In this world we are all commodities, and like it or not that is a fact of life. What you are concerned with is one small but important aspect of selling ourselves..selling our bodies. In the UK it is not illegal to be a prostitute and yet we create the conditions where it is almost impossible to work without it being dehumanising. They are most often, though not always, forced onto the streets, have nasty shitebags as pimps (often themselves dehumised for whatever reason), are often narcotics addicts who have to feed their addictions somehow, for rehabilitation is not always an option for them, and of course here back come the pimps to "help" them out. Society creates the conditions for dehumanising, and until it learns true compassion for those who work in the sex trade it will always be so.

[tenni]

"That sex workers are somehow less human than everyone else. And so it goes on, and because we tell them it is so.. so it is. And your post while well meaning perpetuates this attitude. It is not the activity which dehumanises, but our attitude to it, and the difficulties and pressures we place in the way of those people who, for whatever reason work as prostitutes porn actors, escorts or whatever. "

Darkeyes
As I try to be liberal in my thinking but also deal with the reality that I know where at least one sex worker has come from, it is difficult for me to see a sex worker as less human. Gee, she is someone that I love and care for and she could not be more human to me.

For those who are dealing with a more abstract perspective, some may have an attitude of better than thou and see sex workers as dehumanized but I see the inhumanity of even accepting prostitution unless you may say with one hundred percent accuracy that the sex trade person has not dehumanized themself. If they are a victim and psychologically damaged this dehumanizing of self is not a good thing for them to do.

Legalize the sex trade. Remove the stigma but make damn sure that the workers have a psychologically healthy perspective of themselves. Make sure that the sex trade worker is a worker and not perpetuating their own victimization.

As I understand libertarianism, Darkeyes may object to any government interference in determining which sex trade worker is working with a pyschologically healthy mind.... ;)

[darkeyes]

Darkeyes
As I try to be liberal in my thinking but also deal with the reality that I know where at least one sex worker has come from, it is difficult for me to see a sex worker as less human. Gee, she is someone that I love and care for and she could not be more human to me.

For those who are dealing with a more abstract perspective, some may have an attitude of better than thou and see sex workers as dehumanized but I see the inhumanity of even accepting prostitution unless you may say with one hundred percent accuracy that the sex trade person has not dehumanized themself. If they are a victim and psychologically damaged this dehumanizing of self is not a good thing for them to do.

Legalize the sex trade. Remove the stigma but make damn sure that the workers have a psychologically healthy perspective of themselves. Make sure that the sex trade worker is a worker and not perpetuating their own victimization.

I was not implying you believe them to be less than human. My point is that our societies treat them so, and so many believe this to be the case. Regarding your last point, the sex trade is substantially legalised at least in the UK. The problem is that those within the trade, at least those who sell themseves for sex, is that legal or not they are treated as if it was illegal, and until we begin to treat them as just other workers then the dehumanising of which we both speak will continue. We are not far apart on this I dont think. Perhaps my libertarianism allows me freer range to my imagination and dreams of a better world, but your liberalism and compassion are a credit to you. Maybe in time people of both credos will get together and help create a better way and a better world for a much scorned, abused and often oppressed group of workers.:)

[rissababynta]

I was not implying you believe them to be less than human. My point is that our societies treat them so, and so many believe this to be the case. Regarding your last point, the sex trade is substantially legalised at least in the UK. The problem is that those within the trade, at least those who sell themseves for sex, is that legal or not they are treated as if it was illegal, and until we begin to treat them as just other workers then the dehumanising of which we both speak will continue. We are not far apart on this I dont think. Perhaps my libertarianism allows me freer range to my imagination and dreams of a better world, but your liberalism and compassion are a credit to you. Maybe in time people of both credos will get together and help create a better way and a better world for a much scorned, abused and often oppressed group of workers.:)

If you were in the USA Franny...you'd be able to use this in a Miss America pageant...and win!

[darkeyes]

If you were in the USA Franny...you'd be able to use this in a Miss America pageant...and win!

Hahahahahaha! Me has the personality Riss..an the modesty ya will note:bigrin:...but think me a lil 2 lil an as sum 1ce sed on 'ere..scrawny 2 win.. me tidgies rule me out hun.. if that daft cow who caused all the furore earlier in the year is owt 2 go by..doubt if me has the "family values" eitha.. tee hee.. or mayb me has.. ;):bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

I am gonna put my neck in a noose with a statement that I know is controversial but in a lot of cases, a sex worker is no different to the average person except for the fact they get paid by the hour

we talk about them as victims etc.... but many of us in relationships are no better..... we just cover it up......

I do know a number of sex workers...and yeah not all of them are stable.... but I look around a lot of the people I know that are not sex workers and they are not much better......

but as a couple of them stated to me.... * judge us... call us victims.... but we are not tied down to your 9 to 5 slave labour jobs, we make better money.... and if we were not opening our legs for a client, we would be giving it away for free to a partner that may pay us the same respect..... *

we tend to regard sex workers as people with issues.... but do we honestly think that they are any different to us..... we happily talk about how we wanna hook up with random people and get laid...... we just do not get paid for it

and to counter another arguement, sex workers are the most vunerable...is incorrect..... a sex worker is hard pressed to hide signs of abuse....a house wife has a house to hide in.....

sex workers have to work for a living, a house wife is forced to make a living with what lil she can....


btw tenni, new zealand sex work is legal.... google the critieria for it.....