Culturally Speaking, are you more gay or straight? [Archive]

rissababynta

Nov 29, 2009, 11:37 PM

Hmmm, man I don't know. I am married to a man, I enjoy putting on my make up before I go out, sometimes doing my hair, sometimes dressing femininely. But for the most part, I'm pretty tomboyish. I like beer, wrestling, sports, wearing mens clothes and the ladies...I'm also very much so one of the guys. A lot of times, I find it much easier to get along with guys. My best friends are either male, or women who have masculine personalities like me. So...what does this make me...

roy m cox

Nov 30, 2009, 2:03 AM

hmmm that's hard to say cuzz 50o/o of me likes a guy and the other 50o/o likes a girl,,, so i think im more BI , not gay or straight sorry

i don't just like one or just the other ,

i do like both sexes and if i had my way about it at the same time :bigrin:

it's so weird how people keep thinking that same dogma about us BISEXULA's
that a bi guy is gay just cuzz he like guy's and a bi girl is a lesbian cuzz she likes other girl's ,, "gods" people give it a brake if you like just one or just the other duzz not mean that every one is just like you a lot of people out hear are true bisexual and tho some say it's not true but they need to look at all the new study's going on about us bi's the news is that you and if you like both sexes at the same time you are a 100o/o BISEXUAL.....

halobeam

Nov 30, 2009, 2:29 AM

I am bisexual, neither a lesbian nor straight...I am in a same-sex relationship and I have dated men before too...

I think one day people will come to understand that bisexuality is a sexuality on it's own...NEITHER GAY NOR STRAIGHT...

some bisexuals lean towards same-sex others towards opposite sex, relatively few are in the middle...it happens that I am in the middle... :)

Realist

Nov 30, 2009, 8:01 AM

When I was very young, I believe I was equally bisexual. As I matured, I became more interested in the ladies.

Still, I am often attracted to certain guys, but haven't had a male lover for some time, now. Maybe it's because I have a magnificent bi GF, who seems to be filling all my needs and fantasies, these days.

The degree of interest for one gender, or another, has vacillated over he years, too.

Doggie_Wood

Nov 30, 2009, 8:16 AM

Culturally Speaking - I am a male biker who identifies mainly as a hetrosexual.
My personal (social, fraternal, etc.) activities lean toward the men.

Doggie :doggie:

Indaco76

Nov 30, 2009, 9:03 AM

Nice question.
I'm a bisexual woman who's been in a same sex relationship for two and a half years now. My partner is a lesbian and my friends happen to belong mostly to the gay/lesbian scene. And that was also before my current relationship...
I was married to a gay guy for one year, after being engaged to him for 9 years. Our common friends were either gay or friendly even when we were pretending (even to ourselves) to be a het couple :-)
So, well, I guess I feel more at ease in queer environments, although I still have hetero friends with whom I get along well.

rissababynta

Nov 30, 2009, 11:20 AM

I think some people got a little confused with the question lol.

olebear

Nov 30, 2009, 12:36 PM

I think some people got a little confused with the question lol.

I think I got the gist of the question.

I personally relate to and get along better with woman.
I have several male hetro friends, but the really deep platonic friendships I have are with woman. Probably because I feel that the woman inside me is the best part of me!

mikey3000

Nov 30, 2009, 1:30 PM

12voltman59

Nov 30, 2009, 1:51 PM

From the "cultural side" of things---no doubt I have more in common with the "straight" world than the "gay" one.

This thread goes to prove a point I have tried to make in the past----there is far more to being gay than simply whether you have an attraction to someone of the same gender sexually-----just like with so many things in our culture---when you identify with some 'group"--you are supposed to conform to a whole laundry list of things you like and ways you act.

I say that the sexual aspect of being "gay" is maybe only ten percent of what it means to be gay at most--most of what it means to be gay has not all that much to do with the sexual part of "gayness" from what I have observed--even though it is the sexual part that is considered by society and most of the gay community itself to be the prime factor in being gay.

For me--just take music---even if I decided that I was only going to be with guys--that doesn't mean all of a sudden I am going to love to listen to Judy Garland songs, go ga ga over show tunes or whatever sort of music that gays are supposed to love---I am still going to be a fan of the blues, bluegrass, and the rest of the music that I talked about in that one thread I put up recently.

But--there is one place that does make me different than guys who are adamantely "straight"---I don't get much enjoyment from making disparaging remarks about gays or other "minority" groups that so many striaght white guys seem to love to do--and that I don't like to engage in such talk--that makes me "suspect" by my straight buddies since I don't diss these other groups too.

It does make it hard for me to be around them--and to be honest--since I don't think that I can change their minds about a whole bunch of things and they sure cannot change mine----I now tend to distance myself from those who are the worst offenders in this way.

It really isn't that big a deal though---I have always been a person who goes my own way anyhow----why should it be any different with sexuality too??

BiPhone

Nov 30, 2009, 2:11 PM

This is a hard question. Because my interests are actually more gay than straight. I love Broadway musicals and theatre. Im not feminine but I'm kinda sensitive. I have tended to keep my sexuality a secret from my fellow musical theatre buddies because alot of them are gay and they have not said to many nice things about bisexuals. That hurt my feelings because they will never really know the "whole me".

Im not a big sports fan and I do not really feel at home in the straight community either, but my girlfriend loves the fact that Im not a sports idiot and more of a theatre-person and also that Im sensitive and can actually talk about my feelings.

Anybody similar?

Cherokee_Mountaincat

Nov 30, 2009, 2:22 PM

lol I guess I'm the only odd ball here.. (Here's my surprosed look on That one) lol
I adore and lust after men and kiss and love on girls, so I guess I dont fit properly into anyones set cat-a-gory..:} I'm just Me..lol:bigrin:
Silly Cat

mikey3000

Nov 30, 2009, 3:57 PM

csreef

Nov 30, 2009, 5:37 PM

Me I'd say i'm a Man's man.. I can fix anything. I can stand on my own two feet and not back down from a fight. But right now I'm jonesin for a guy.. I guess its the male energy that i'm craving.

tenni

Nov 30, 2009, 8:28 PM

I'm not talking about atraction, I'm talking about one's interests. I'd say I have more in common with the average hetro man than I would the average gay man.

I have to wonder if you are referring to stereotypes? I'm an artist and so that puts me in the non stereotype hetero right away. However, I know artists who are very athletic, wrestling and rowing champs etc. Personally, no I'm not into team sports (definitely not watching) but workout and play a bad game of tennis (like it but again find it difficult to watch). I can be asssertive (or aggressive) verbally but that might be my genetic Irish background. I can get into a pissing contest verbally if I believe in the idea. As far as fixing things, I lack confidence. I'm often surprised that I can fix things better than other guys though or that I can do it. I will tackle a lot of guy tools creating my artwork though. I just don't want to screw up my plumbing of my house and so I'll hire someone instead.

I'm definitely not interested in what might be considered most gay interests. Even though I'm an artist, I don't use elaborate names to describe colours. I don't decorate my house up fabulously. Hell, I don't even hang art on the second floor of my house and I have hundreds of pieces (mine and others) in my collection. I can easily design and co ordinate plants in my front yard but not over the top at all. I design it to be rather maintenance free. (no grass cutting) However, there was a time when I was a very good dancer (bar style). Its in my bones and jeans..lol (artsie part of me)

Most of my straight guy friends don't exactly fit the hetero stereotype all that well either though. Who cares.

darkeyes

Dec 1, 2009, 1:20 PM

Culturally sposes am str8. Am a girlie girl, luff 2 dress nice, wear luffly clothes an shoes, smell nice an hav lotsa nice but subtle jewellery. Exception mite b musically cos I prefer music produced by girls. This not outa orientation entirely, jus me thinks that ova the las cuppla years girls hav been producin by far the best music. Lotsa triff stuff by guys an all.. Coldplay cums 2 mind... an jus wer me taste vis a vis the classics leaves me.. an theatre an opera... u tell me... Tho me interest in the state a the world, an the fools that run it, me attitudes ther mite b a lil more debatable 2....

Sexually speakin kno zactly wot me is, an str8 don enta the picture... but dus it matta? We r who we r.. culturally or sexually... an its our biz, an the resta the planet shud jus let us get on wiv things so long as we don interfere wiv them...:) Overall tho?? Am neitha str8 gay or bi...merely human... wiv me own tastes an me own ways a livin..an me own nature...

jamiehue

Dec 1, 2009, 2:43 PM

im ......cant make up my mind right now.

texbama

Dec 1, 2009, 8:08 PM

i seem to identify and enjoy myself more with the guys rather than the girls. it looks like most other guys seem to think the same on this post if you add them up

bistraightpat

Dec 1, 2009, 8:30 PM

I relate to both equally. Everyday is different. Some days i feel feminine and want to feel pretty and other days i feel manly and wanna play in the dirt.

JohniBi

Dec 1, 2009, 9:52 PM

I'm probably a bit more straight, since I tend to prefer guys more.

I am bisexual, neither a lesbian nor straight...I am in a same-sex relationship and I have dated men before too...

I think one day people will come to understand that bisexuality is a sexuality on it's own...NEITHER GAY NOR STRAIGHT...

some bisexuals lean towards same-sex others towards opposite sex, relatively few are in the middle...it happens that I am in the middle... :)

When I was very young, I believe I was equally bisexual. As I matured, I became more interested in the ladies.

Still, I am often attracted to certain guys, but haven't had a male lover for some time, now. Maybe it's because I have a magnificent bi GF, who seems to be filling all my needs and fantasies, these days.

The degree of interest for one gender, or another, has vacillated over he years, too.

I'm not talking sexual here guys, I'm talking cultural. I for example would be more straight culturally, as I like comics and video games, I watch the odd UFC fight, I could care less about decorating, fashion, and what have you, and the only musical I like is Repo.

cand86

Dec 1, 2009, 11:14 PM

Culturally, I'm pretty dang queer.

jem_is_bi

Dec 1, 2009, 11:49 PM

Culturally, I am almost totally straight.
Sexually, I am almost totally gay.
I enjoy being and acting very male even when I have sex with a male.

coyotedude

Dec 2, 2009, 1:12 AM

I have one problem with this thread. To me, there is no question that gay culture exists - as shared experiences that bond together the gay community. But I don't agree with some of the assumptions made about gay culture. I'm sorry, but listening to show tunes and indulging in home decorating are not necessarily gay culture. Many gay men may be feminine, but many are as masculine as they are gay. I've known gay men who dress like crap and who love sports but identify completely as gay.

I personally believe that one of the struggles we have as bisexuals is defining ourselves as a cohesive community in the way that the gay community or lesbian community has been able to do. It's hard for us to identify culturally as bisexual because frankly we haven't created much of a bisexual culture among ourselves. There are certain shared experiences and assumptions, but little to tie us together into a cohesive community. In that sense, perhaps, we are behind the gay, lesbian, and other queer communities in terms of appreciation of our own self-identities and willingness to be open about our sexuality. (And I agree wholeheartedly with the post that pointed out that sexuality is about much more than just sex.)

Just my :2cents:

Peace

halobeam

Dec 2, 2009, 10:19 PM

coyotedude....well said...

I was finding this thread a bit uncomfortable in terms of my own sexual identity...why is it that as bi people, we have to be 'like gay' or 'like hetero' why can't we just be bisexuals...don't we all take on both male or female gender roles in our lives depending on different situations?

even the most typical 'straight looking' people might be closeted bi or gay...I was closeted most my life because of these cultural social construction around sexuality, either you have to act like you are straight or be gay and people might understand...now that I am dating a woman people think I am a lesbian....

what about BISEXUALS...how do we fit in, even we fall into same cultural stereotypes...

I think the best thing about bisexuality is that we can be anywhere and be anyone...people will know about our sexuality only if they have the courage to ask...I don't mind if people ask me about my sexuality rather then just assume that I am a lesbian while with my gf or hetero if I date a guy...

I rather not be invisible but it's difficult :flag1:

harrleyguy

Dec 3, 2009, 12:50 PM

good question!!! I have always believed I was 100% Bi. I have an equal interest in both sex's and am equally comfortable with Gay and Str8 friends. I really is not about the plumbing but how you use it..... :tongue:

fredtyg

Dec 3, 2009, 1:09 PM

coyotedude....well said...
I think the best thing about bisexuality is that we can be anywhere and be anyone...:flag1:

Agreed, and that's why I love this site. I enjoy reading about what a diverse group we are. Which is also why I've been enjoying this thread.

As for myself, I don't know that I could say I'm into gal stuff. I know I like some guy stuff (except sports) but, for the most part, I think I enjoy gal company from the social aspect as opposed to guys. The rare times I go to social affairs, I feel more comfortable chatting and hanging out with the women, rather than men, unless I knew someone there was bi or gay. In that case, I'd likely be trying to hang with the bi/gay folks.

I have no idea why that is.

mikey3000

Dec 3, 2009, 1:14 PM

Lately I think I'm leaning towards being more gayish. I was very straight for so long that I think it's a nice change. We hand out in the village, watch gay t.v. programming, gay themed movies and even listen to a gay themed radio station. And the wife is really getting into it too, totally of her own accord. And I'm taking better care of myself. Dropped a bit of weight, more careful how I dress, and closer attention to personal grooming.

And maybe I should add that I own every power tool under the sun, do all my own renovations, plumbing & wiring, can't decorate wirth a crap, don't know any show tunes, look like I'm having a seizure on the dance floor, and to dress up, I put on a clean pair of jeans, a plain ol' white t-shirt, loafers and a beat up old leather jacket. If you're lucky, maybe I'll shave for you. LOL!! So where does that place me? Who knows. I never really cared for label either way.

mikey3000

Dec 3, 2009, 1:39 PM

:rolleyes: If you think those things have anything at all with being a gay man or a homosexual you're delusional.

I know STRAIGHT men who are just like that and who are into the whole lame queer eye for the straight guy show and the whole metrosexual fashion and attitude which is just a phase for them which passes like bad diarrhea.
Dude, chill out already. It said culturally speaking. I know culture is a far stretch for you, but try really hard, ok? And BTW no one here is convinced you're a man by any stretch on the imagination, so don't try so hard anymore. You really are getting tiring.

tenni

Dec 3, 2009, 1:51 PM

"I was finding this thread a bit uncomfortable in terms of my own sexual identity...why is it that as bi people, we have to be 'like gay' or 'like hetero' why can't we just be bisexuals...don't we all take on both male or female gender roles in our lives depending on different situations? "

Coyotedude & halobeam
I agree that the use of the word "culture" is a little off. What we are really chatting about are stereotypes. Even the concept of a "gay community" has different people taking different sides to its feasibility from what I've read and so to state "culture" is a misnomer. Culture includes a language, religion as well as such things as attitudes, customs and values. These are usually geo specific as well. It is the last three factors that some may have a strong point in arguing about a gay community or culture though.

Bisexuality really is more about sexual identity than a culture. We also have a fairly broad variation of bisexuality. To think that we can/need to create a separate community other than places like this website may be premature or not even needed or possible. Few here seem to wish to become political about our bisexuality from what I read. I just want to understand what works and to have some comfort level about discussing and learning from each other.

The essence of the question has validity as far as identity is concerned based upon stereotypes though. Which do we identify with stronger? Answers vary of course because we vary in our bisexual lifestyle, preferences and probably a lot of other ways/attitudes/ values that come from our varying geo/hereditary cultures.

Turning it back on the OP, johniBi:

What did you, JohniBi, expect?

What has JohniBi learn from the answers that is helpful to him?

mikey3000

Dec 3, 2009, 2:29 PM

Culture includes a language, religion as well as such things as attitudes, customs and values. These are usually geo specific as well. It is the last three factors that some may have a strong point in arguing about a gay community or culture though.

Language: "FA-BU-LOUS, KEWL, THAT'S HOT"

Religion: Versace, Lagerfeld, and the fountian of youth are they're gods.

attitudes, customs and values: pretty obvious.:bigrin:

All joking and stereotypes aside, I think the gay culture can best be described as a SUB-culture within the grand scheme of things, and still a rather important and significant one at that. Bisexual is much more difficult to define.

SaraSaurus

Dec 3, 2009, 2:50 PM

Both? or Neither? I've never really felt a need to conform to stereotypes and can't say truly identify with either. I don't dress up or wear make-up but I love looking cute, I can change a tire and the oil in my car (well, back when I had one), and love musicals. I read Jane Austin religiously and find chick flicks positively painful. Where does that put me?

In any case I've got to say I've enjoyed this thread and the different responses. I think one of the best things about the bi community is that it is so diverse and I hope it remains that way. No stereotypes for me, thank you very much. :tongue:

mikey3000

Dec 3, 2009, 3:00 PM

There's a bar/club in Montreal that is for men only and women are not allowed at all.

Bravo to the owner for creating a queer male space for cisgender queer men!

As far as I am concerned this was not a violation of human rights since there are places where women can only go that men cannot at all and nobody says anything about that and if this fag hag really wanted to go to a gay bar or club she should have went to one that lets hetero fish in as there are tons of those nowadays where lots of straight people go to slum and peek in at queer men like they are in a zoo.

I'm fine with bisexuals being in such bars/clubs but not straight men and women, and of course if it is a men's only bar or club it is a space for queer men only.

Wow. And you're a snivelling bigott too. There's a surprise.

tenni

Dec 3, 2009, 4:55 PM

Gee I don't think that I read that any bisexual identifies with "gay drama"? ;)

tenni

Dec 3, 2009, 6:28 PM

Oh..look a troll...where?..over here.

halobeam

Dec 5, 2009, 3:19 PM

GayAZN...you sound pretty angry...

I love transgenders, and besides if your bar is queer men only, that includes transmen too. you sound transphobic...

Jackal

Dec 5, 2009, 6:54 PM

Trans'men' are not really male or men at all even if they just like to pretend that they are or wish that they were really born as men or were cisgender gay men like me.

They can pretend to falsely ape and imitate masculinity and you do not become male or a cisgender man by getting surgery and taking hormones out the wazoo, but they will always be women genetically, biologically, and many still keep their vaginas and even the surgery that they can get to make their vagina sort of look like a very small micropenis fails majorly and it does not actually give them a penis that works.

As far as the queer (meaning bisexual and gay cisgender men) male spaces I am writing about they do not allow Trans'men' in and they do turn them away at the door and check them and if they are a Trans'man' they are not allowed in at all and that's fine since us cisgender gay males do not want sex or relationships with them at all since they are not really men and do not have real penises at all and never will.

Even dating and sex sites for cisgender bisexual and gay men only correctly and rightfully flag and pull any tranny'man' that tries to pass herself off as being male or wants to pretend that she's a gay or bisexual man when she's not and just wishes that she was born a cisgender man which she will never be.

I know I shouldn't but I'll bite. What makes a man then? Is it a soul thing? If its experiences then someone who appears to be a man to everyone around them and is treated as such would have similar experiences as biomen. If transmen don't have real penises, what about biomen with really small or deformed/impotent ones? Is it a chromosome thing? If so then XYY men would be even more man than most. What about XXY women? Where does this inalienable manhood come from exactly?

Jackal

Dec 6, 2009, 5:53 PM

Who cares about splitting hairs to that extent?

XX cisgender women are women, XXY women are women and so are trans'men'.

You do, apparently. And Y chromosomes contain all the genes that make men, men in your eyes (and genetically) so do we judge an XXY on their two X's or their one Y?

coyotedude

Dec 6, 2009, 6:21 PM

It's too bad that we have some flaming going on, because this thread has the potential to go some very interesting places. Not only with sexual identity, but also gender identity - which I would argue is not the same thing as sexual identity.

In fact, a lot of what has been mentioned in this thread seems to have less to do with sexual orientation and more to do with how we perceive gender - our own as well as others'. Gender involves a lot more than chromosomes, however, or even physical plumbing. In my view, an XY chromosome, a penis, and a scrotum with two testicles is not enough to define myself as male. There's also personality, psychology, even social and culture influences that impact what gender we see ourselves as (if any). Our fellow members who happen to be trans can probably discuss this point in far more detail than this lowly canine, however.

I do think, however, that there is a cultural component that we could talk about with regards to communities. I found this description from Wikipedia interesting:

Culture (from the Latin cultura stemming from colere, meaning "to cultivate")[1] is a term that has different meanings. For example, in 1952, Alfred Kroeber and Clyde Kluckhohn compiled a list of 164 definitions of "culture" in Culture: A Critical Review of Concepts and Definitions.[2] However, the word "culture" is most commonly used in three basic senses:

Excellence of taste in the fine arts and humanities, also known as high culture
An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for symbolic thought and social learning
The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group

There can be subgroups and subcultures within the larger community and culture. Within the queer community (a subset of the larger community around us) there are shared attitudes, experiences, behaviors, and even jargon and slang (i.e., language) that are not relevant to the community at large. I think it is an interesting question to ask how bisexuals here feel they relate to the queer community as a whole and within their geographic areas - provided that we can determine what we mean by community and culture.

But if that's the least we quibble about, that's awesome! :tongue:

Peace

tenni

Dec 6, 2009, 6:38 PM

Coyotedude
There is nothing to dispute really. The definition of culture can be more detailed than the one that I gave. Language is a factor of culture though or it has been historically. The one that you gave is better. The arts would be found under values and customs (or whatever I wrote) by the definition that I wrote.

The question is whether being gay or straight is a culture. I don't think that it is. It was just a slip of the OP. Various cultures would have varying behaviour expectations for men and women in their stereotypes. I've heard the argument regarding community and sub communities as being assigned to gays. It is interesting and in fact the sub community may define itself with a sub text language but so may teens...lol Even different eras within a culture's history have had varying behavioural and customs for each gender. Just think of fashion over the centuries. Some of those guys in French or British Royal courts definitely would be deemed gay by North American values today...lol

Really, I think that the traits of gay people are often perceived as having behavioural traits that are generally assigned to the opposite gender within a culture. If a man acts feminine behaviourally or attitudinally then he may be perceived as "gay" whether he is or not. Remember that is a stereotype and full of flaws.

tenni

Dec 6, 2009, 6:46 PM

GayAZN
You are referencing biology. Some of us are discussing behavioural traits, sexual preference, gender identity and culture as far as being gay or straight. We are discussing bisexuals and how they identify more with one side or the other. We are not discussing biological gender nor gay or lesbians and how they identify.

They are two very different topics. It might be better for you to start a new thread?

coyotedude

Dec 6, 2009, 6:49 PM

Coyotedude
There is nothing to disbute really. The definition of culture can be more detailed than the one that I gave. The one that you gave is better. The arts would be found under values and customs (or whatever I wrote) by th definition that I wrote.

The question is whether being gay or straight is a culture. I don't think that it is. It was just a slip of the OP. Various cultures would have varying behaviour expectations for men and women in their stereotypes. Even different eras within a culture's history have had varying behavioural and customs for each gender. Just think of fashion over the centuries. Some of those guys in French or British Royal courts definitely would be deemed gay by North American values today...lol

Really, I think that the traits of gay people are often perceived as having behavioural traits that are generally assigned to the opposite gender within a culture. If a man acts feminine behaviourally or attitudinally then he may be perceived as "gay" whether he is or not. Remember that is a stereotype and full of flaws.

Ah, I see where you're going now (I think!).... I think what made me uncomfortable about this thread originally was that folks seem to be confusing culture with stereotype.

The only reason I'm really making a point about cultural differences within the queer community is because I find myself in a rather interesting situation volunteering for a local queer organization in my area. I am discovering (sometimes the hard way!) that there are shared experiences and attitudes within the local queer community that I frankly had no clue existed - and have little or nothing to do with common stereotypes about gays and lesbians. It's been quite the learning curve, and I've only really begun to wrap my head around it....

coyotedude

Dec 6, 2009, 6:53 PM

One last comment and then I'll move on...

I have to say that I've met several trans people (women to men) who have a hell of a lot more testosterone than I do! But then, so does my wife, so I suppose that's not saying much... :eek:

Peace

coyotedude

Dec 6, 2009, 7:04 PM

Perhaps get it checked?

You must have rather low levels of it or perhaps you are sterile and impotent too?

Actually, I had testicular cancer many years ago. Everything is still functional, I'm happy to report - but that's another topic for another thread... :bigrin:

tenni

Dec 6, 2009, 7:06 PM

"The only reason I'm really making a point about cultural differences within the queer community is because I find myself in a rather interesting situation volunteering for a local queer organization in my area. I am discovering (sometimes the hard way!) that there are shared experiences and attitudes within the local queer community that I frankly had no clue existed - and have little or nothing to do with common stereotypes about gays and lesbians. It's been quite the learning curve, and I've only really begun to wrap my head around it...."

Yes, you would find even stronger and more attitudinal variances of say the US Black community from the mainstream US culture. In fact, it is a stronger argument to write that Blacks have a culture than gays. Whether gays develop a culture or not is open to debate because there are also racial differences who may be gay. A black gay man has had different experiences than a white gay man in North America.

Whether a bisexual is more comfortable in a straight or gay environment is also debatable. Whether a bisexual identifies with straight or gay attitudes, behaviours and values is also maybe a subtext part of the OP's question?

Jackal

Dec 6, 2009, 7:43 PM

Exactly. Which is why the T should not be included with GLB at all.

I'm all for Trans people having their rights but leave the rights of GLB people out of it and do not associate with us since we do not want you included with us.

"We"? Who is this "we", the royal "We"? You and the mouse in your pocket? (no that's not a dick joke) Yes gender identity and sexual identity are separate but they're still "queer". They aren't normative expressions of gender or sexuality. Especially if you see transpersons the way you do. As the gender they express physically and were born with, that would make a lot of them gay by that definition.

I want them with us in the queer sandwich, and many (if not most) of the members of this site and others like it (including homosexual ones) do as well. So I'm still very confused as to who this "we" that doesn't want transgender/sexual and their rights mixed in with ours.

rissababynta

Dec 6, 2009, 7:59 PM

'We' includes lots of gay cisgender men, cisgender lesbians, and cisgender bisexuals of both genders.

Actually go out and meet cisgender GLB people and talk to them about these things and read blogs and websites and you will see what I mean. I'm not in the minority when I say this but it's rather pointless for the T to be grouped in with GLB people since we all have separate agendas and rights and needs and the T just drags down the rights of cisgender GLB people and people who are Trans do not for the most part care about GLB cisgender people's rights.

Read blogs like Vile Rico about how whenever a Feminist or a Trans'man' or Trans'woman' writes an essay or blog entry and says how their life has been supposedly completely ruined by cisgender Gay/Bisexual men and Cisgender lesbians.

This is all total bullshit from Trans people and thankfully nobody believes it but Trans people are just jealous of cisgender GLB people.

I HAVE had conversations with many people of the GLB community and all who I've spoken to said that they don't mind their inclusion or that they were never offended by it to begin with to give it much thought at all.

rissababynta

Dec 6, 2009, 8:27 PM

The majority of people I knew/know from middle school up until now have been gay/lesbian or bi. There are only 3 people that I can think of that were completely straight. I've also attended many gay/lesbian and bisexual groups before. Of all of the relationships I've had only one was with a partner that was straight. I think I've met and known a fairly decent amount.

rissababynta

Dec 6, 2009, 8:36 PM

Jackal

Dec 6, 2009, 10:27 PM

'We' includes lots of gay cisgender men, cisgender lesbians, and cisgender bisexuals of both genders.

Actually go out and meet cisgender GLB people and talk to them about these things and read blogs and websites and you will see what I mean. I'm not in the minority when I say this but it's rather pointless for the T to be grouped in with GLB people since we all have separate agendas and rights and needs and the T just drags down the rights of cisgender GLB people

This is all total bullshit from Trans people and thankfully nobody believes it but Trans people are just jealous of cisgender GLB people.

It's sweet of you to assume I don't go out and meet and talk to these people but in fact I do. I know you love to think that none of us here spend time in queer circles outside of the internet but that's not true and I am not one of those people.

<sigh> Its so nice to see one oppressed and hated group fighting for rights turn on another that's looking for the same thing. I guess GLBs really have become more part of the mainstream if we think this is a good idea. It's just as bullshit as when gays and lesbians don't want bisexuals around them or part of the movement. United we stand.

Jackal

Dec 6, 2009, 10:36 PM

That's nothing.

I've been around for decades longer than you kid and I've met more Trannies and Gay/lesbian, and bisexual people than you have so far in your current life and I've been in relationships with more bisexual men and gay men who do not want sex or relationships with cisgender women like you or even Trans'men'.

You need to get out more.

Okay, first you tell us that we need to meet and be around these people who you're now referring to as "us" as if the people on this site aren't part of that 'us' then when she tells you that she is and does you discard that. You love to toss around 'them' 'us' and 'we'. But you're not bi, so that makes you, 'them', you're not 'us' or 'we'.

You keep trying to distance yourself and then ally yourself with this group of people (bi.com). If the bi men and transmen on this site aren't allowed to talk about being gay or being men as if they are then you shouldn't be allowed to talk to bisexuals or 'trannies' as if you know what it is like to be one. If you're going to say that your experience with these groups that you're not part of is a valid basis for making claims about them and what it's like to be a member; then rissa's and mine (or those of anyone else) are just as valid.

coyotedude

Dec 7, 2009, 1:14 AM

Did you get either of your testicles removed or go through a lot of radiation or chemo or just get surgery?

Yes, I lost one of my testicles and also went through radiation. Not a fun experience, but I am a cancer survivor and very happy with that fact.

I am a cisgender bisexual male and I am content with who I am. But people who happen to be trans neither offend me nor threaten my masculinity or my sexuality. I accept that - for whatever reason - there are people who struggle from their earliest years with the biological gender that they were born with. They have the right to live their lives as they see fit, no less than you or I or any other human being who has ever been born on this small world that we call home.

'Nuff said.

Peace

rissababynta

Dec 7, 2009, 1:26 AM

Yes, I lost one of my testicles and also went through radiation. Not a fun experience, but I am a cancer survivor and very happy with that fact.

Congrats sweety. I'm glad that you were able to pull through all that toughness.

coyotedude

Dec 7, 2009, 1:57 AM

Why, thank you rissa! But I had it pretty easy compared to most. Half the normal radiation for half the normal time - and no chemo. And 12 years cancer free as of this month!

Still no fun, though.

Devildog78

Dec 7, 2009, 8:50 PM

Great Question!

I'd say I'm definitely more Straight culturally. I do know allot about culture from all spectrums, film, art, music, etc. I've even seen Mommy Dearest a couple times! Nonetheless though, I find that day to day, who I associate with, the kind of music I listen to generally (Punk/Oi/New Wave/Electronica) and what I do for fun is predominated by Straight people, hands down. I've only had one relationship with a Man, the rest were all Women and the Women I've been with seemed to have more balls then him.

Over the years, I've been to a few Gay bars and clubs and found out very quickly how much of a bad fit it was for me. The humor, the lingo, the clothing, the attitude, nearly all of it was so far removed from me and what I like that it really made me unhappy.

I still don't understand Gay Culture or why any Man would want to listen to Disco constantly or need to vacation at Provincetown and Fire Island in the Summer, blah blah blah. I just don't get it.

So yeah, definitely way more Straight than Gay.