truely bi-sexaul

[jimjam]

im a true bi-sexaul i neither are gay or straight. i cant be sexaul forfilled with just one sex m/f. Im not a closet gay man or a fustrated straight man.

So many people here believe being a bi man is being gay but not come out yet. Or in stages of coming out well im as out as im ever gonna be {cock and pussy for me yippy}

1 /so my question how many people out the think bi is just a stage of comming out.

2/ How many people here are truly bi and happy with being in the middle

It seems there are a lot of gay people espesaily that think were just not ready to come out of the closet.

[MarieDelta]

For what its worth there are also SOFFA here, so dont forget that some people come here for support in dealing with Bi issues of their partners or to support Bi folks.

[jimjam]

what ever SOFFA means,,,,, no not forgetting people come here for support as have i. but reading thought the threads i have found a whole lot of people passing moral jugdement. And stateing facts based on there beliefs of monogomy, level of gayness or stratghness or critisizing people for ""not cominmng out" i have even read a statement stating bi men are just gay men to scared to come out" .

there seems to be gay elimants and religous eliment trying to enfersize conversion to each side...

well these people are not true bi sexauls a true bi craves and needs both for fulfilment.

And it would be nice to find article by people trying to cope with just that . And how it affects them emotionaly ect as well as chat to people dealing with it. after all i dont think i have to tell anyone that is truely bi-sexaul just how hard a emotionaly draining it can be trying to be in 2 worlds.

[Shhhhh 47/F/usa]

For what its worth there are also SOFFA here,

Living room furniture come to this site too?

[Long Duck Dong]

I am bi sexual..... not a *true * bisexual as I am correctly pansexual....but I id as bisexual.....

I am attracted to males and females fluidly, but I do not include my love of genitalia as the defining point for my sexuality.....its a aspect of it...... I also enjoy the person with the genitalia......

because I am bisexual fluidly I can id as gay if I am in a extreme male attraction time of my life...but to be honest, that would be a lie as it would not be admitting I have female attractions as well

my bisexual nature allowed me to be content with the companionship of males and females, trans and intersex.....and I can love them and never have to go to bed with them...... and to me, that is the most valuable and redeeming aspect of being bisexual...... I can be a friend, a companion a partner and non sexual.....and still be bisexual........

[MarieDelta]

SOFFA (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Significant+Others,+Friends,+Families,+and+Allies) - Significant Other, Friend, Family or Ally. I guess this is a trans term although it would (and does) apply to Bi folk too.

[littlerayofsunshine]

what ever SOFFA means,,,,, no not forgetting people come here for support as have i. but reading thought the threads i have found a whole lot of people passing moral jugdement. And stateing facts based on there beliefs of monogomy, level of gayness or stratghness or critisizing people for ""not cominmng out" i have even read a statement stating bi men are just gay men to scared to come out" .

there seems to be gay elimants and religous eliment trying to enfersize conversion to each side...

well these people are not true bi sexauls a true bi craves and needs both for fulfilment.

And it would be nice to find article by people trying to cope with just that . And how it affects them emotionaly ect as well as chat to people dealing with it. after all i dont think i have to tell anyone that is truely bi-sexaul just how hard a emotionaly draining it can be trying to be in 2 worlds.



That's about as effective as me saying that "true Bi's" know how to spell and understand proper grammar usage.

[DareMe]

For me, it's more like, I like women more than men. But, I find being with another man erotic. I do have an attraction for men, but they have to fall into a very specific category. To be truly Bi also means that you can be full filled, not just sexually but emotionally also with the other. So far, still looking.

DM

[HelloToYou]

I don't understand the "in transition" thing... but yes, I am bisexual.

[jimjam]

That's about as effective as me saying that "true Bi's" know how to spell and understand proper grammar usage.

well that the sort of thing thats annoying me about this site, are we having english lessons now. sory im not perfect.
my point "jugdemental statments'

[jimjam]

I don't understand the "in transition" thing... but yes, I am bisexual.

in transition,---- some people seem to thing bi-sexual people are gay but have not admitted it yet

[darkeyes]

well that the sort of thing thats annoying me about this site, are we having english lessons now. sory im not perfect.
my point "jugdemental statments'

Don u worry ya pretty lil bonce bout it hun..peeps been gettin at me bout how me speaks in .com an me spellin for years... Ray is luffly by the way..she fluffs tidgies eva so beautifully an all.....tee hee... :bigrin:

[Gearbox]

in transition,---- some people seem to thing bi-sexual people are gay but have not admitted it yet
On a certain gay site, that's how bi's are viewed in general.
But on the same site, gay men talk about how disgusting female genitalia is, and how they'd rather chop their cocks off than put it near a vagina. :eek:

1. I'm 42, and if I'm going through a transition, it's a very long one.
2. I'm bi, but being happy about it isn't always true.
I can fill a straights shoes and a gays shoes, but I'm not comfortable in either. Not constantly anyway.:)

[csrakate]

well these people are not true bi sexauls a true bi craves and needs both for fulfilment.



While I defend your right to define your own bisexuality, I think you may be doing a disservice to others with your statement of what constitutes a true bisexual. It may vary from person to person and saying that you need both to be fulfilled doesn't necessarily hold true for every bisexual. Some may be very fulfilled in choosing one while still experiencing arousal towards the other, but just because they don't act on it doesn't make them less bisexual.

[jimjam]

On a certain gay site, that's how bi's are viewed in general.
But on the same site, gay men talk about how disgusting female genitalia is, and how they'd rather chop their cocks off than put it near a vagina. :eek:

1. I'm 42, and if I'm going through a transition, it's a very long one.
2. I'm bi, but being happy about it isn't always true.
I can fill a straights shoes and a gays shoes, but I'm not comfortable in either. Not constantly anyway.:)

yes gearbox thats exactly the type of view that is being expressed on some threads thanks for highlighting that

[jimjam]

While I defend your right to define your own bisexuality, I think you may be doing a disservice to others with your statement of what constitutes a true bisexual. It may vary from person to person and saying that you need both to be fulfilled doesn't necessarily hold true for every bisexual. Some may be very fulfilled in choosing one while still experiencing arousal towards the other, but just because they don't act on it doesn't make them less bisexual.

thasts exactly right we have the right to define our own sexuality , morals and views. p.s thats what the experts defines as a true bi-sexaul i do agree thoe to an extent im married but watch m2m porn and webcam at time "with partners knowlege more so then the physical act.... have siad that i have had a ful on relationship with a man. each sex can have different qualitys that attrced them. for me its more the individaul then there gender.. i.e as a bisexaul gender is not important thus no need to be straight or gay

[Long Duck Dong]

thasts exactly right we have the right to define our own sexuality , morals and views. p.s thats what the experts defines as a true bi-sexaul i do agree thoe to an extent im married but watch m2m porn and webcam at time "with partners knowlege more so then the physical act.... have siad that i have had a ful on relationship with a man. each sex can have different qualitys that attrced them. for me its more the individaul then there gender.. i.e as a bisexaul gender is not important thus no need to be straight or gay

ahhh jimjam..... the term true bisexual refers to bi gender....not bisexuality....

unless you are talking about these * experts * and look at answer number 4

True Bi Experts (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091021100032AA86YxR)

[roy m cox]

um http://bisexuality.wikia.com/wiki/Bisexuality

this may help i hope :bipride:

[goldenfinger]

Why do we keep flocking this dead horse. The best we can do, is to agree to disagree.With only 4 options to choose from, many people can't vote as they don't fit any one of them. As there is no official definitions set down by any government anywhere in the world, and as far as I know, no university has a professor in bisexuality, there is no set guidelines to follow.People make up what best suite them, and then flock other people with them.:2cents:

[tenni]

I don't think that it is all that difficult to define bisexuality. It is simply the attraction to both sexes. KISS principle approach might help.


Beyond that in definition, it is being more specific about the varieties of bisexuality and refining the basis of "attraction".

Each bisexual knows that they are attracted to both (usually in a sexual manner). The degree of attraction may vary. Whether they act on that attraction and how is merely an application of their bisexuality.

Transitioning is a term that I've read gays refer to themselves when at one point that they thought that they were bisexual. Determining whether you are transitioning or a bisexual may get caught up in some political implication. It shouldn't matter except to the person. (ya bis can get a bad rap from the transitioning gays though) Again, it is all just detail and refining of the basic 'attraction' concept.

Don't worry: be happy! kind of philosophy might help (not that people may not struggle with acceptance but that is another topic)

[rissababynta]

I don't think that it is all that difficult to define bisexuality. It is simply the attraction to both sexes. KISS principle approach might help.


Beyond that in definition, it is being more specific about the varieties of bisexuality and refining the basis of "attraction".

Each bisexual knows that they are attracted to both (usually in a sexual manner). The degree of attraction may vary. Whether they act on that attraction and how is merely an application of their bisexuality.

Transitioning is a term that I've read gays refer to themselves when at one point that they thought that they were bisexual. Determining whether you are transitioning or a bisexual may get caught up in some political implication. It shouldn't matter except to the person. (ya bis can get a bad rap from the transitioning gays though) Again, it is all just detail and refining of the basic 'attraction' concept.

Don't worry: be happy! kind of philosophy might help (not that people may not struggle with acceptance but that is another topic)

I have to say, I would have pretty much said the same thing here.

[still_shy]

I agree with Tenni. One of the things I don't understand on this site these days is everyone struggling to put labels on people and define them exactly. Human nature is, and always will be a very broad spectrum of definitions. Why does it matter if you define yourself as "truly bi" or "in transition"? The main reason we are all here is for friendship, education and acceptance. I'm really struggling with some peoples narrow views on what constitutes a bisexual person. I think we are each what we choose to be and we are here for our own reasons, not to be judged because we identify ourselves differently than someone thinks we should.

[Rose2Me]

Looks like this population is just what the title suggests- bisexual. What a surprise!

[mikey3000]

Labels are becoming more redundant every day, but I'll try to make sense.

I do consider myself truly bisexual because not only do I crave both sexes physically, but also emotionally, intellectually and affectionately. Each sex has different qualities to offer and in a different way. What I enjoy most is the contrast between the two, the differences.

I also believe that sexuality is very fluid and can change over time, cyclical even, depending what is lacking in other areas of your life. People go through many phases and all are good. Just some have more trouble passing froom one phase to the next.

[tenni]

"I crave both sexes physically, but also emotionally, intellectually and affectionately."

Mikey
I agree with what you wrote but what you describe above is just refining and one type of bisexuality. It doesn't mean that someone who is only physically attracted to same sex is not as true a bisexual as you. You are both true bisexuals if you are both attracted to both sexes. I'm sure that you would not deny another person from stating that they were truly a bisexual would you if they did not have exactly the same attraction on all the levels that you refer to?

[mikey3000]

No. You are absolutely right. What I wanted to show is that there are many different types of bisexuals. Some only crave physical contact with the same sex with no affection or emotions required. All are bisexual to degrees. I meant that maybe I am extreme? or mabye just greedy! LOL!!!! Who knows anymore. I am what I am.

[ivanthemonkey]

I don't beleive in the labels Bi or gay when it comes down to it, though I use them simply because they are convenient. Preference is simply preference, we don't have such labels for people who don't like brocoli or who enjoy peanut butter and banana sandwiches, so it bugs me to lable it as such.

I enjoy men, and I think that is perfectly normal. The only reason why other men don't is often because it is drilled into them that this is gay, where instead society should be encouraging male bonding and dropping the labels.

[cutebutt37]

I lost my virginity to a lovely woman at 16.
I bonked many women over the years and at 26 I had received so many blowjobs, I suddenly asked myself what it must be like to actually give a blowjob!!
Well I tried it and have never looked back. Women really turn me on, I mean REALLY turn me on. I love delving my tongue into pussy and licking her clitty till she is orgasmed out.
I also love rimming her ass and doing gentle anal, if that is her thing.
I have to admit though that having a hard cock in your mouth, and taking it deep gives you a feeling of power and I can see why women get wet doing it...
To keep a penis rock hard takes skill, and you have to hand it to these women of ours.....
I think I am bisexual, don't you? lol

[Gleekybaby]

I know im bisexual, I was only a young thing when i had my first sexual experence... With a female... she was older then me and been with boys and girls b4, but me she was my first experence, i loved it...

Im happy to have pleasures with other woman, but at the same time i love my Partner to bits, i just cant give up the pleasure of a man... My man for that matter.
Granted its been a few years since i even touched another woman, that doesnt worry me. i do not have a NEED for a woman esp when i have my man!

But i still class myself as Bisexual!

[bi42guy1958]

Ok, Im more confused than ever now. Am I bi or not? I crave equally the phyiscal satisfaction form both men and women, but the emotional thing I can only get from women. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME??:banghead::yikes2:

[Long Duck Dong]

you are bi..... plain and simple......

a bisexual is a person that is attracted to males and females on any level, and id's as bisexual..... using the term *true* bisexual to define bisexuality is misleading,..... you are not any less a bisexual for more attraction with one gender over the other.... you are equal to them.....

the term * true bisexual * is not a bisexual trait, its a bi gender trait.... or in simple terms a bi gender is male and female in personality with clearly defined traits

the term *true* bisexual refers to a person with equal and full attractions to both genders on a emotional, mental and physical level, and capable of forming relationships equally with both, that are fulfilling and they can be monogamous....... the defination there is * true* pertaining to perfectly level or straight without leaning to any side.... and not * true * meaning genuine or real

[goldenfinger]

LDD, can you point me to a LEGAL defination of "true bisexual" if not, it is just another persons opinion, and other peoples opinions don't matter.

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD, can you point me to a LEGAL defination of "true bisexual" if not, it is just another persons opinion, and other peoples opinions don't matter.

its a *official * ( ie not PC term ) used in a series of gender and sexuality identifying and defining guidelines and disorder assocation, research papers....
or psych talk as its called.....

its more to do with info sharing between counsellors and therapists and the psych people than public release documents... so you will have to google some sites until you find them..... I have lost the links....but I will contact a few friends that are still active in the field and see if they can get me a copy of the papers

failing that try finding the handbook of lesbian and gay studies by diane richardson I think it is.... and read the bisexual menace section

[goldenfinger]

I know that it may be official, but that doesn't make it legal. I know it's a bit silly, but it is the only way to stop this war going on here about bisexuality.

[TwylaTwobits]

Gold? there is no "Legal" definition of bisexuality, because quite frankly being bisexual isn't against the law.

If you want to look for legal definitions you have to break things down and look at the sum parts ie sodomy is illegal in some states and countries punishable by death. That's anal sex between man and man, man and woman, woman and woman. Doesn't matter your preferance illegal is illegal. Personally I'd break the law anytime for anal :)

So it has to be a "medical definition" and that is simply someone who is capable of love and physical relations with members of both sexes.

[Long Duck Dong]

as a legal ( legal as in lawyers, laws and court rulings ) term * true bisexual and bisexual * doesn't exist..... its a aspect assumption

legally bisexuality aspects is not fully legal in areas and states that have anti sodomy rules, ( anal / oral sex or sexual acts that go against nature, ( nature being male and woman procreation )

BUT there is no legal defination of bisexual or bisexuality as defining in state or country laws.... the closest is homosexual / lesbian / fetish acts

as a legal gender, as a medical term,bisexual as refering to intersex and hermaphrodite is correct

as a mental psychological, bisexual and bi gender are correct only with mental emotional aspects, not sexual contact.

so in a nutshell, we as bisexuals, do not legally exist without the defining legal term to define bisexuality

[goldenfinger]

If there is NO legal definitions of bisexuality, then people should STOP using the term "true" or any other term for that matter, which put people either inside or outside a box. Who really gives a shit what people class them self as.Too many people here are too quick to label other people.
LDD, why did you limit your poll to just 4 options, there are many more, a tread some time ago had about 13 if my memory serves me correct.

However, a poll like this, as a PINNED TREAD,,Please DREW, would allow newcomers to tick where they best saw themself. It would give all of us a much better snapshot of the people here.

So, no legal definition, no legal expert.:eek::2cents:

[Long Duck Dong]

If there is NO legal definitions of bisexuality, then people should STOP using the term "true" or any other term for that matter, which put people either inside or outside a box. Who really gives a shit what people class them self as.Too many people here are too quick to label other people.
LDD, why did you limit your poll to just 4 options, there are many more, a tread some time ago had about 13 if my memory serves me correct.

However, a poll like this, as a PINNED TREAD,,Please DREW, would allow newcomers to tick where they best saw themself. It would give all of us a much better snapshot of the people here.

So, no legal definition, no legal expert.:eek::2cents:

why did i limit the poll ????? I never made the poll.... jimjam did.....
and I sure as hell would never confine it to 4 choices....

to me there are 20 variations or more of bisexuality defining depending on the person themselves...tho some definitions would be more bi curious or straight / gay with a interest / fetish, by psych standards..... but that is getting too technical with definations

I generally have the view, like many, that you decide your sexuality as it fits you....others may not agree ( accusations of closet gay / lesbian )

but honestly, the term * true bisexual * as a person with equal attractions to both genders ..... there is no measure for *true * no scale to define it....and its a personal perception.... and using that to define ones bisexuality does cause issues when it implies that others are not bisexuals, but bisexual wannabes ... and in bisexual.com.... implying that delibrately or accidental, is not a good move

[goldenfinger]

Sorry LDD for that, must have looked at the last post when I saw your name, sorry again, so if jimjam is still watching this tread, maybe he can tell us why he limited the poll to just four.

[12voltman59]

Does it really matter why people come to this site---and aren't people free to decide for themselves their person definition of "bisexuality" might be and how it works out in their lives-at least at varying points in time??

I know I have my personal verson of what I mean by bisexuality--for me right now----I guess you could say from the purely sexual aspect of things that I am "gay" right now in that I have only been having sex with other guys in the recent past and for the most part--am mostly interested in only having sex with other guys right now--but--I sitll don't rule out a sexual/emoitonal relationship with the right lady--also---my personal version of bisexuality seems to be working out that I want to either have sex with a guy or have sex with a lady--but not necessarily at the same time--I want to have sex with either a man or woman--but not at the same time in a three-way as so many also seem to think this is what it means to be bisexual.

I hate that somehow we have to conform to some set of defried paramenters of what we are supposed to be like since we are "bisexual"---to me---being bisexual is as much about challenging "the should/oughts" of any sort and to be free for my sexuality to work out as it will--not defined by "one side or the other."

I welcome anyone who comes to this site for any reason---and I don't care who they deifine themselves at this or any other time and how their sexuality plays out at this or any other time---I don't want my sexuality put in a box and I am not going to expect anyone else's sexuality to be put in some narrowly defined box either--I don't care if a person comes here being "bicurious" and over time finds that he or she is "gay" or whatever--I welome them all--just as long as the person is a reasonable person and is relatively "nice"--whatever that means-that is what matters to me--I don't care their sexual orientation as long as it doesn't include forcing others to take part and of course they are not pedophiles.

I do hate that some come here and have their narrow expectations as to how everyone else "shold be!" since they are "bisexual."

To me--I look at both life and my exploration of "my bisexual side" as being a long journey with no fixed end point and that I need to enjoy the trip--with no real "end goal."

I am open to what comes--in life and in sex now.

I am not about trying to impose my views of things on the world--more about allowing what comes along to come along and simply enjoy the experiences that come my way.

I am not answering this poll--to me--the options presented are way too narrowly defined!!!

One more point--I don't know what the hell it means to be "truly bisexual"---to me--bisexuality can be whatever each and everyone of us wants it to be for ourselves!!!

To borrow from and to mangle a favorite line from an old movie: "Definitions of bisexuality?? We don't need no stinking definitions of bisexuality!!!"

[goldenfinger]

12 volts,, ditto.

[roy m cox]

Does it really matter why people come to this site---and aren't people free to decide for themselves their person definition of "bisexuality" might be and how it works out in their lives-at least at varying points in time??

I know I have my personal verson of what I mean by bisexuality--for me right now----I guess you could say from the purely sexual aspect of things that I am "gay" right now in that I have only been having sex with other guys in the recent past and for the most part--am mostly interested in only having sex with other guys right now--but--I sitll don't rule out a sexual/emoitonal relationship with the right lady--also---my personal version of bisexuality seems to be working out that I want to either have sex with a guy or have sex with a lady--but not necessarily at the same time--I want to have sex with either a man or woman--but not at the same time in a three-way as so many also seem to think this is what it means to be bisexual.

I hate that somehow we have to conform to some set of defried paramenters of what we are supposed to be like since we are "bisexual"---to me---being bisexual is as much about challenging "the should/oughts" of any sort and to be free for my sexuality to work out as it will--not defined by "one side or the other."

I welcome anyone who comes to this site for any reason---and I don't care who they deifine themselves at this or any other time and how their sexuality plays out at this or any other time---I don't want my sexuality put in a box and I am not going to expect anyone else's sexuality to be put in some narrowly defined box either--I don't care if a person comes here being "bicurious" and over time finds that he or she is "gay" or whatever--I welome them all--just as long as the person is a reasonable person and is relatively "nice"--whatever that means-that is what matters to me--I don't care their sexual orientation as long as it doesn't include forcing others to take part and of course they are not pedophiles.

I do hate that some come here and have their narrow expectations as to how everyone else "shold be!" since they are "bisexual."

To me--I look at both life and my exploration of "my bisexual side" as being a long journey with no fixed end point and that I need to enjoy the trip--with no real "end goal."

I am open to what comes--in life and in sex now.

I am not about trying to impose my views of things on the world--more about allowing what comes along to come along and simply enjoy the experiences that come my way.

I am not answering this poll--to me--the options presented are way too narrowly defined!!!

One more point--I don't know what the hell it means to be "truly bisexual"---to me--bisexuality can be whatever each and everyone of us wants it to be for ourselves!!!

To borrow from and to mangle a favorite line from an old movie: "Definitions of bisexuality?? We don't need no stinking definitions of bisexuality!!!"

"amen" and a woman to you tell'em volt :bigrin:

[halobeam]

lots of people always refer to their sexuality by act of sex...I mean you can be a virgin and be bisexual, just as much as you can be a virgin and be any sexuality you define yourself as...sometimes it seems confusing to me when people always refer to sex partners they had and so forth so that defines their sexuality. There are bisexuals who have only been with one sex/gender only...
true bisexuals is a term that I find confusing...I don't know what it means. I can emotionaly and physically have a relationship with both men and women...for me it's personality that matters, the person can have any sexual orientation and be either men or women (that includes transgender/transexuals....

[bi4asplay]

im a true bi-sexaul i neither are gay or straight. i cant be sexaul forfilled with just one sex m/f. Im not a closet gay man or a fustrated straight man.

So many people here believe being a bi man is being gay but not come out yet. Or in stages of coming out well im as out as im ever gonna be {cock and pussy for me yippy}

1 /so my question how many people out the think bi is just a stage of comming out.

2/ How many people here are truly bi and happy with being in the middle

It seems there are a lot of gay people espesaily that think were just not ready to come out of the closet.

I am, at least to myself a rue bisexual. I love to have sex with a lady. I truly enjoy sex with a guy, IF there is a lady I the mix. I am always seeing lades that make me say" Damn I would love o have some of that". Never have I seen a man that caused me to say that. One lady that lived with me for a couple of years that played with me in this way would often ask if one guy or another be fun to invite to play. Most of the times that she asked the guy was one that I would have enjoyed being with her. Never one that I would think about without her. I am BI. I am not into any men alone.

[BiBIKER065]

I'd have to agree, it depend on the individual. I love women and being with a woman sexually, but every now and then think of being with a guy sexually, but just for that moment. I'm not into being with a guy for a life partner, at all but just for that moment and just for the excitement.

[Dog62]

As far as the poll, I have no clue where I fit. I am not straight cuz I like sucking dick. I am not gay because I absolutely love women and I have no desire to have an emotional relationship with a man. So what the fuck is that? Straight with a side of dick? Only half bi?
I KNOW!!! I'm a homo-sapien.....what category is that??

Screw these labels...and screw the people that think someone should be labeled as something other than what they want to be called. People are who and what they are, no more and no less. If I want to claim that I'm a Californian, then I can be a Californian and some anonymous idiot on a web site can't change that.

[BiBIKER065]

As far as the poll, I have no clue where I fit. I am not straight cuz I like sucking dick. I am not gay because I absolutely love women and I have no desire to have an emotional relationship with a man. So what the fuck is that? Straight with a side of dick? Only half bi?
I KNOW!!! I'm a homo-sapien.....what category is that??

Screw these labels...and screw the people that think someone should be labeled as something other than what they want to be called. People are who and what they are, no more and no less. If I want to claim that I'm a Californian, then I can be a Californian and some anonymous idiot on a web site can't change that.
I hear you man, you explained it perfectly :rolleyes:

[void()]

Looks like this population is just what the title suggests- bisexual. What a surprise!

*chuckles softly*

I think we keep moving the butterflies from upstairs to the cellar. At any given there are plenty
butterflies on the site.

If you come from Mars, you're welcome as well ;) Please though, do not ask for Dave. Asking for
him is considered a poul fenality which receives the feather duster treatment for days. :D

Also, be advised Calvin Ball has never stopped being played on the site. I see your rook and
go for the offside try with the puck.