Cisgender Privilege Checklist

[MarieDelta]

Please read and re-post this list to make people aware of the hardships often faced by transgender individuals that cisgender people take for granted on a daily basis.

1. It is unlikely that I will be ostracized by my family and friends, fired from my job, evicted from my home, given substandard medical care, suffer violent or sexual abuse, ridiculed by the media, or preached against by religious organizations simply because of my professed identity or perceived incongruent gendered behaviors or characteristics.
2. I can be confident that people will not call me by a different name or use improper pronouns.
3. I never suffered the indignation of "holding it", when both functional and unoccupied public restrooms are available. In fact, I don't need to be concerned about public facilities segregated by sex.
4. If I am institutionalized, I don't have to worry about being housed in the wrong section of a facility segregated by sex.
5. I am not denied entrance to appropriate services or events that are segregated by sex.
6. My childhood innocence was not interrupted with desperate prayers to a divinity begging to wake up the opposite sex.
7. I never grieve about my lost childhood and adolescence because I was born the opposite sex.
8. I will only experience puberty once.
9. I never worry about potential lovers shifting instantly from amorous to disdain and even violence because of my genitals.
10. I am unlikely to be questioned about my genitals, even less likely to be touched inappropriately or asked to see them.
11. It is unlikely that I would risk my health by avoiding the medical profession for fear of discovery.
12. I never considered hiding my body parts by binding or tucking.
13. It is unlikely that I would consider changing my voice.
14. If I have a professionally recognized and diagnosed condition, I am unlikely to be excluded from medical insurance coverage.
15. As a man, I am more likely to look my age, and have a body similar in size and shape to other men.
16. As a man, I am more likely to be satisfied with the functionality of my genitals.
17. As a man, I am more likely able to father children .
18. As a woman, I am more likely to have a body similar in size and shape to other women.
19. As a woman, I am unlikely to lose my hair before middle age.
20. As a woman, I am more likely able to conceive and bear children.
21. As a woman, I don't have to dilate the rest of my life.
22. I am more likely able to achieving orgasm.
23. I will likely have $50,000 or more to spend or save for retirement.
24. I can't imagine spending months and $1000s of dollars on a therapist so they can tell me something I already knew.
25. If I am physically healthy, I don't think about having a hysterectomy, a mastectomy, massive hair removal, contra hormone therapy, vocal surgery, facial reassignment surgery, or genital reassignment surgery.
26. I have a better chance of reaching old age without taking my own life.
27. At my funeral, it is unlikely that my family would present me crossdressed against my living wishes.
28. I never worry about passing gender wise. I am oblivious to the consequences of someone failing to do so, and consequently loosing my cisgender (non transgender) privilege. In fact, I have the privilege of being completely unaware of my own cisgender privilege.


Just seemed like time to post it.

[cand86]

Thank you for posting this! I've seen it, and variations of it, before, and it's always enlightening.

I have a secret love affair with all privilege checklists, I think. I'm actually working on a mono privilege list for my blog (i.e. the privileges that monogamous people have but polyamorous people often do not).

[izzfan]

Very profound, it raised issues that I hadn't even thought of. As a crissdresser/androgyne (in terms of personality), I can relate to some of the points in this list but some of them were a real eye-opener.

[Remetan]

Thank you Marie!

I have been dating my trans boy for two months now. He is pre-everything and doesn't even come close to passing yet. It is so hard for him some days to just get out of bed...

I wish more people new about the issues that transgendered individuals deal with every moment of their lives.

[MarieDelta]

Thank you Marie!

I have been dating my trans boy for two months now. He is pre-everything and doesn't even come close to passing yet. It is so hard for him some days to just get out of bed...

I wish more people new about the issues that transgendered individuals deal with every moment of their lives.

You are very welcome. That is why I posted this, people aren't aware of what we go through on a daily basis. How many Cisgender people do I know that are afraid to go to safe and clean public facilities. None.

[onewhocares]

Marie,

Thank you for posting. I do whole heartedly agree that the average person is not aware of the basic fundamental rights, services, courtesy, and common politeness that many transgendered people have had to give up or have been taken away from them. I have seen this first hand and I am appalled at the ignorance of many.

One thing you mentioned really hits home for me. As you know I have a dear friend who wants to be fully transitioned but circumstances are such where that may not be possible. We have in the past spoken of how they wish to be for their funeral. How will family members who perhaps do not support the person lifestyle grant the persons wishes? My friend wants to be buried as a woman but at this point I have serious doubts that family members would abide by this last request. That is so sad to me.

Belle

[MarieDelta]

No one has said that Cisgender males are the enemy, at all.

Cisgender is a more accurate way of expressing Non-transgender, to me.

I love my gay friends, they have their struggles as well, however I often do not think they understand where trans folk come from (and vice versa.)

I only date men that are bi, so that tells you how I feel about bi men. (I date women as well, however)

In the recent past Gay men have often treated trans folk like we are outsiders (and often less than.) I hope that this changes, but if we dont talk , then it wont.

I will say that things could be more equal.

I never said that being non-conformist was the ideal, not sure where you got that idea. Must have been some other trans-persons ideal.

[Long Duck Dong]

marie, a lot of those are blanket statements, and ignore a LOT of issues and aspects that cisgender face..... and cisgender excludes a lot of variables in people....

some of the blanket statements I feel, may have been written or stated by a person that is only seeing their view point, and creating this as a way of justifying their views....

when you open it up... and cover all sexualities.... it becomes less * omg * and more, * we can relate, we understand, its not just your issue *
that is not saying that trans people do not have it hard.... cos they do.... but saying that most cisgender can not relate or do not face that, is a way of distancing the trans people further away from the people that do understand and do face some of the issues and that is why we stand beside you and support the trans people as valuable people and part of our lives and community




Please read and re-post this list to make people aware of the hardships often faced by transgender individuals that cisgender people take for granted on a daily basis.

2. I can be confident that people will not call me by a different name or use improper pronouns. ( infact feminine males and masculine females deal with that issue too....)

3. I never suffered the indignation of "holding it", when both functional and unoccupied public restrooms are available. In fact, I don't need to be concerned about public facilities segregated by sex. ( I would never use a females toliets, even if i knew they were unoccupied.... I would rather use a tree...the reason for that is pissing in public is far better than being seen as a pervert or sexual deviant for using female toliets, yes I do have bladder issues and so does my partner )

5. I am not denied entrance to appropriate services or events that are segregated by sex. ( there are groups and places in NZ that are not accepting by law of opposite gender entrance and under NZ law, they are legally protected in that ruling, they can legally ask me to leave )

6. My childhood innocence was not interrupted with desperate prayers to a divinity begging to wake up the opposite sex. ( many people have done that, not just trans gender..but it has a lot to do with treatment of siblings )

7. I never grieve about my lost childhood and adolescence because I was born the opposite sex. ( I was mistreated as a young male child, and my sisters were not, my mother admitted in the end, she took her rage out on me cos she could not deal with my step father....my sisters never dealt with that...)

10. I am unlikely to be questioned about my genitals, even less likely to be touched inappropriately or asked to see them. ( and you want to be touched inappropiately ????? )

11. It is unlikely that I would risk my health by avoiding the medical profession for fear of discovery. ( i know a number of people that avoid the medical profession for a number of reasons )

12. I never considered hiding my body parts by binding or tucking. ( actors and actors do it a lot )

13. It is unlikely that I would consider changing my voice. ( actors and actors do it a lot, same with gender impersonators )

14. If I have a professionally recognized and diagnosed condition, I am unlikely to be excluded from medical insurance coverage. ( smoking... in nz, you can be denied insurance for being a smoker )


15. As a man, I am more likely to look my age, and have a body similar in size and shape to other men. ( I am 39, I have had grey / white hair since I was a late teen, I have no hair on my legs, arms, back, or chest, I am part intersex )

16. As a man, I am more likely to be satisfied with the functionality of my genitals. ( micropenis, premature ejeculation, circumcision )

17. As a man, I am more likely able to father children .( that is personal choice to have kids, its not a gender obiligation )

18. As a woman, I am more likely to have a body similar in size and shape to other women. ( they are all uniquely different )

19. As a woman, I am unlikely to lose my hair before middle age. ( alopecia strikes anybody )

20. As a woman, I am more likely able to conceive and bear children. ( some females can not or never will bear children, some are born infertile )

21. As a woman, I don't have to dilate the rest of my life. ( my ex landlord had to )

22. I am more likely able to achieving orgasm. ( some ladies have never had a orgasm )

23. I will likely have $50,000 or more to spend or save for retirement. ( I wish.... in nz, there is not many people with retirement funds )

24. I can't imagine spending months and $1000s of dollars on a therapist so they can tell me something I already knew. ( been there done that, 37 years of it )

25. If I am physically healthy, I don't think about having a hysterectomy, a mastectomy, massive hair removal, contra hormone therapy, vocal surgery, facial reassignment surgery, or genital reassignment surgery. ( ask females with a history of cancer in the family, about voluntary mastectomy even with no signs of cancer, to reduce their chances of getting it )

26. I have a better chance of reaching old age without taking my own life. ( I have dystimia... I deal with suicidal thoughts every day, and I can not get away from it.... I can not * change * any aspect of my life, to stop them... even for a day )


28. I never worry about passing gender wise. I am oblivious to the consequences of someone failing to do so, and consequently loosing my cisgender (non transgender) privilege. In fact, I have the privilege of being completely unaware of my own cisgender privilege.
( that is personal viewpoint, making it a blanket statement is a insult )

[tenni]

Thanks MarieDelta for this thread

I think that I have much to learn. I had not heard the term cisgender. I googled it as you did not explain the word or I missed the definition. One thing that I found amongst the discussion was the following statement..that makes my head spin a bit more...lol

"Remember that gender identity and sexual orientation are two entirely different and separate things, and that notes on cisgender privilege and heterosexual privilege should be each taken on their own merits and not considered to be the same thing."

From what you have posted describing your own dating experience, do you consider yourself a transgendered (gender identity) bisexual (sexual orientation) then?

[MarieDelta]

tenni, I am a bi transsexual woman. I use bisexual , but in my opinion that includes everything inbtween the two poles as well.

I must admit to being a bit frustrated with you LDD, as it seems like you are just trying to punch holes in the list, not taking it as what it is and learning from it.

These things as a whole are what I (and other transfolk) experience on a daily basis. An FtM will never father children, and I will never bear my own children. Is it the end of the world no, but its not something I would choose either.

Do some cisgender experience the same things, sure, but they aren't "the norm". If they experience difficulties it is met with dismay, whereas when its a trans person , it is just met with either derision, or shrugged off as "well what did you expect."

If a cisgender female experiences premature hair loss on the same scale I do, her insurance would cover it, do you think my insurance covers my hair loss?

I have been in positions where I was afraid to go into the bathroom of either gender, Both gender bathrooms were clean and unoccupied. I dint feel like I passed and I was afraid of being harassed in the men's facilities. If both restroom are available , do you feel that you cant go in?









But whatever :-/

[Long Duck Dong]

I must admit to being a bit frustrated with you LDD, as it seems like you are just trying to punch holes in the list, not taking it as what it is and learning from it.


I apologise.... I was not aware that it was a trans people issue only list.... and that I am not allowed to share how cisgender and others can share some of the issues or empathise with trans people....or show other none transpeople, how us non trans can share some of the issues and in doing so... realise that trans people are just like us.... not freaks of nature....

I have posted in this site a number of times about my love and support of trans people including my real life friends who I think the world of,
my support of the rights of trans people to be a part of this site and community as equals and a valued part, of my thoughts about taking a partly transitioned trans person as a lover and a partner in a relationship ( you posted and said they were not really a trans person if they were not gonna fully transistion ),
my time spent with christian and trans friends in a united group fighting for the rights of the civil union ( alternative sexuality marriage rights in nz ) and my own struggle with my partly intersex, bigender ( dual gender personality traits ) gender identity issues.....

in future, I will not add my support to trans person issues and voices in the site......

[TaylorMade]

I love you, Marie and will always respect you, but...?privledge lists? do little other than foster irritation and PC guilt.

What I'd like to hear more of are the individual, unique experiences of transpeople- the challenges in their daily routine , how they encounter and deal with transphobia.

Just me, I guess.

*Taylor*

[Remetan]

It took me a good ten years to come to the conclusion that I could like women as well as men. And another five to realise I preferred women to men pretty much completely. Through that time, I alienated myself from the public, from my friends, from my family, and I spent an awful lot of time on this site in the final years....

I never had anything but support when I came here.

It has been my experience on this site that most people are generally accepting of bisexuals and gays, generally accepting of straight people coming here for information or in support of a significant other who is bi or gay. To my knowledge, Marie Delta is the only transgendered individual I have had any interactions with on this site, and I can't even begin to presume to know how she has been treated.

It is not until recently in my life that the difficulties a transgendered individual faces on a day to day basis have had any affect on my life, therefore I have not really had to think about it, aside from my initial "I support my LGBT family completely in our cooperative struggle for equality" way of thinking.

And while I will agree that to a certain extent, that list is perhaps better placed upon a site where more people of a less exposed normality could see it, I think this debate that has come up is of incredible importance.

My boyfriend is incredible. He's supportive, patient, strong, incredible with my car, has a natural instinct for what I need....compliments my many feminine attributes with his masculinity in so many ways I can't even begin to tell you....

He was born as...let's say Jessica Renee. Eight years ago he started asking people to call him JR, and refer to him as male. They won't. He still has breasts and a vagina, because he's a poor working class fool like the rest of us. He doesn't feel complete unless he goes out in public with his soft pack, but he feels like if he does that and wears pants that show it he will have his ass kicked.

Last week his therapist scoffed at him when he insisted that she refer to him as male. He will not go back. He cannot have his driver's license list him as male, he cannot register at school as male, he is not thought of as male, period. He does not sound or look like a man, because he cannot afford hormone replacement therapy. In our state, it is illegal for him to use the men's restroom until he is legally listed as male.

His deepest darkest wish for us physically is to get hard when I fondle him, which he can't, because he doesn't have the equipment.

Just as homosexuality and bisexuality were finally written out of the psychological world as disorders, transexuals cannot get approved for their surgeries until they have been diagnosed as having a disorder. GID. How fucked is that? Because my boy is not sick. The only problem with him is that his outsides don't match his insides.

I'm bigger and stronger and more masculine (in appearance) than he is. And when we go out, they hand me the bill. And that kills him a little inside. Because he is my eternal gentleman. Thank god we live in an area where two physical women can go out and it is accepted.

Yes, LDD, gender fluid individuals do have to face hardships every day. But you have one thing transgendereds don't. You can blend. For them, blending means giving up who they are, being out means risking condemnation, physical harm, and in some areas death. Support them, by all means, but do not belittle their plight.

As far as LGB rights have come in the last three decades is as far as T rights still have to go....

[Long Duck Dong]

Yes, LDD, gender fluid individuals do have to face hardships every day. But you have one thing transgendereds don't. You can blend. For them, blending means giving up who they are, being out means risking condemnation, physical harm, and in some areas death. Support them, by all means, but do not belittle their plight.

As far as LGB rights have come in the last three decades is as far as T rights still have to go....

belittle their plight ???

if the transgender want to make a deal of the issues they face.... then go at the people that have supported them unconditionally.... then they only have themselves to blame when they need another voice to support them in this site and that voice remains silent

I was never belittling anybody...but sharing how some of the aspects of the list were not a trans gender only issue and that other people did not take them for granted...myself included.... and showing that far from being ignorant, we UNDERSTOOD how just hard it can be for trans gender people, and our hearts really go out to them....

maybe the transgender would like to have dystimia, like me, no support group, no meds, no therapy, no counseling, no insurance ( high suicide risk ) and no way to change any of it..... then maybe they will realise that behind closed doors they are safe..... but I can never be safe from my own mind..... but not many transgender can relate to that.... and never would I assume that they do not understand or that they are belittling my plight if they posted where they share some areas... cos that tells me they can relate to my plight......

as I have said before and I will say it again.... 80% of the trouble with LGBT issues, is the LGBT themselves... they are so busy fighting to get people to listen and understand, that they are turning on the very people that are standing there supporting them against the nay sayers, cos they are blind to anything but their own view.....

[littlerayofsunshine]

The ones I am highlighting, are ones that apply to me as a non transgendered woman.

1. It is unlikely that I will be ostracized by my family and friends, fired from my job, evicted from my home, given substandard medical care, suffer violent or sexual abuse, ridiculed by the media, or preached against by religious organizations simply because of my professed identity or perceived incongruent gendered behaviors or characteristics.

The ones in bold have happened to me, not because of my gender, but because I was either poor, or a single mother, or just there


2. I can be confident that people will not call me by a different name or use improper pronouns.

I have been called Sir and Helen


3. I never suffered the indignation of "holding it", when both functional and unoccupied public restrooms are available. In fact, I don't need to be concerned about public facilities segregated by sex.


I am a holder..I don't use public restrooms, women's restrooms are so unclean, our hole is so small, the toilette so big, yet they piss all over the seat and forget how to flush.



4. If I am institutionalized, I don't have to worry about being housed in the wrong section of a facility segregated by sex.


5. I am not denied entrance to appropriate services or events that are segregated by sex.

Yes I have, for being improperly dressed, or not being a sexy enough woman.

6. My childhood innocence was not interrupted with desperate prayers to a divinity begging to wake up the opposite sex.

I would pray that I would wake up and never have been raped by my brother, hoping he wouldn't rape me that day, or to not wake up at all so I wouldn't suffer anymore. I still have scars on my body from when I would try to fight him off, and he stabbed me or punched me with brass knuckles.

7. I never grieve about my lost childhood and adolescence because I was born the opposite sex.

I grieved my lost childhood for other reasons


8. I will only experience puberty once.

9. I never worry about potential lovers shifting instantly from amorous to disdain and even violence because of my genitals.


I got beaten and raped for not giving him my genitals

10. I am unlikely to be questioned about my genitals, even less likely to be touched inappropriately or asked to see them.

Again I was molested and raped


11. It is unlikely that I would risk my health by avoiding the medical profession for fear of discovery.

12. I never considered hiding my body parts by binding or tucking.

I hide mine differently, and for other reasons. And my stretchmarks have been made fun of.


13. It is unlikely that I would consider changing my voice.

14. If I have a professionally recognized and diagnosed condition, I am unlikely to be excluded from medical insurance coverage.

Pre-existing conditions like I have make it harder to find coverage and yes I have been denied coverage based on such.

15. As a man, I am more likely to look my age, and have a body similar in size and shape to other men.

16. As a man, I am more likely to be satisfied with the functionality of my genitals.

17. As a man, I am more likely able to father children .\

18. As a woman, I am more likely to have a body similar in size and shape to other women.

Women come in all shapes and sizes, from 6'2 and stocky to 4'11 and petite Some with little to no breasts and some with watermelons.


19. As a woman, I am unlikely to lose my hair before middle age.


Middle aged hair loss happens to women as much as men, women are more likely to be ridiculed for it


20. As a woman, I am more likely able to conceive and bear children.

Child bearing and rearing, is not something generally taken for granted and to those that can't conceive, bare great pain.

21. As a woman, I don't have to dilate the rest of my life.

There are women with medical issues, that make sex or even inserting a tampon a excruciating experience and so yes some women do.

22. I am more likely able to achieving orgasm.

I just went many many years without an orgasm.

23. I will likely have $50,000 or more to spend or save for retirement.


24. I can't imagine spending months and $1000s of dollars on a therapist so they can tell me something I already knew.

I went years therapy wise, and put on numerous mental meds as a teen. And just medically speaking it took 10 years of Auras, losing my vision, and 4 days of stroke like symptoms to get diagnosed with migraines.

25. If I am physically healthy, I don't think about having a hysterectomy, a mastectomy, massive hair removal, contra hormone therapy, vocal surgery, facial reassignment surgery, or genital reassignment surgery.

I am part indian and irish, I grow more hair than my husband

26. I have a better chance of reaching old age without taking my own life.

not as someone who has a depression and being a rape victim.


27. At my funeral, it is unlikely that my family would present me crossdressed against my living wishes.

I will probably not even have a funeral, only my husband and kids would attend, so cheaper to burn and urn.

28. I never worry about passing gender wise. I am oblivious to the consequences of someone failing to do so, and consequently loosing my cisgender (non transgender) privilege. In fact, I have the privilege of being completely unaware of my own cisgender privilege.

Women worry all the time, just being up to par of their own gender and being put down if they don't meet the standard. My sister has been mistaken for a man.


Just seemed like time to post it.[/QUOTE]

I luv ya Marie, I think you are a smart and funny woman with much intelligence and caring. I adore your wit and charm.but.........
Honestly I find it insulting to read such a list. Personally as a person, a woman, and as someone who supports and cares about transgendered individuals. I am always respectful and understanding, and even love to go shopping with trans because they have good taste in close and skin care, Abilities I lack as a woman.



I find the list insulting...I would have rather seen the list done in a different way...

Such as..

You don't see the hurt in my eyes, when someone refuses or rejects me for my true gender.

I would have rather seen a list that depicted the emotional turmoil and struggles, instead of the way that it was done, which seems more of a slight and stereo type of non-trans folk.

[tenni]

When I was googling Cisgender term, I came across a more detailed or revised privilege checklist.

It may be found at

http://www.t-vox.org/index.php?title=Cisgender_Privilege

Now, these are just lists. I think that they are there for educational purposes. Maybe it doesn't mean that a transgendered person is worse off or others have not experienced a loss of privilege as well?

[MarieDelta]

I'm Sorry.

I never meant to hurt anyone.

LDD, everyone, of course you are right.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Don't ever be sorry hun, Your a Doll :love87: Never apologize for what you believe.


P.s. I tried to find two girlie smileys, cause I wanted two girls kissing but there aren't any, there are however two boy smileys with a heart. *scoffs*

[rissababynta]

Don't ever be sorry hun, Your a Doll :love87: Never apologize for what you believe.


P.s. I tried to find two girlie smileys, cause I wanted two girls kissing but there aren't any, there are however two boy smileys with a heart. *scoffs*

Boys ruin everything :-P

[csrakate]

Marie,
Please don't be sorry for sharing this information. What you posted was very much an eye opening and thought provoking list...but it was presented in a somewhat negative tone towards others...suggesting assumptions and attitudes that aren't necessarily true to people as a whole. We all have our crosses to bear, but what promotes better understanding of such things is to share the turmoil and trials without negating the experiences of others. As someone else suggested, it would have probably been better received had it been presented on a more personal level...things that you, yourself have been through, instead of suggesting that the rest of us are not compassionate and understanding of the plights of others. It is never a good idea to present anything as a blanket statement. Clearly as others have posted, they have been through similar trials, due to other circumstances, but certainly just as heart wrenching and life altering.

But again....don't apologize for posting it...but perhaps for suggesting that others didn't understand or give it much thought. I know you didn't mean to come across this way..but some of the posts are suggesting as much. You know I love you and I know how loving and compassionate you are and I know you never intended this list to provoke such a response.

Much love,
Kate

[tenni]

Marie
Thanks again for posting this list. Please don't feel that you need to apologize.
You seem like such a sweet gentle soul...BIG HUG.

Whether is comes across negative to some doesn't matter to me. I read their own issues in their responses. I didn't read the list as negative but as a means of asking others to understand what transgender people are dealing with. One person's trials and challenges do not negate another person's trials and challenges. I know that this is not your own personal list and that it came from others who have compiled this list. You merely want to share. I've learned from you. Thanks.

[MarieDelta]

For what its worth.

I was just trying to express myself and perhaps I didn't come across as I would have liked.

I'm not saying that trans people have it the worst, that would be ridiculous. What I am trying to say is that perhaps you don't see what it means to be trans. What I said to LDD was never meant as an insult , nor was it meant to do anything other than express that I felt some frustration. I do get that some folks have it worse (I grew up with a paraplegic uncle, did a lot of things for him.)

Yes its true, everyone hurts. Who is to blame? No one.

Saying that I am struggling to maintain my gender identity, havent been able to afford hormone shots for a few months and I am struggling with some severe bouts of depression. Right now it feels as if I will be stuck in this damn body forever. I will say this, I will not die with that damn thing still on my body, if I have to hack it off with a spoon.

[TaylorMade]

For what its worth.

I was just trying to express myself and perhaps I didn't come across as I would have liked.

I'm not saying that trans people have it the worst, that would be ridiculous. What I am trying to say is that perhaps you don't see what it means to be trans. What I said to LDD was never meant as an insult , nor was it meant to do anything other than express that I felt some frustration. I do get that some folks have it worse (I grew up with a paraplegic uncle, did a lot of things for him.)

Yes its true, everyone hurts. Who is to blame? No one.

Saying that I am struggling to maintain my gender identity, havent been able to afford hormone shots for a few months and I am struggling with some severe bouts of depression. Right now it feels as if I will be stuck in this damn body forever. I will say this, I will not die with that damn thing still on my body, if I have to hack it off with a spoon.

The bolded what I'm talking about.This goes so much further than the lists. This is real, this is YOU. Talking to my friend Maddy about her being exhausted from hormone shots and not wanting to go out because she's still red from laser hair removal. Only going to certain clubs in certain areas for safety.

This is the stuff I tell my mom and I know it moves her enough to probably pray for you and others like you. If nothing else, this is the stuff that moves people to compassion and potentially action.

*Taylor*

[Long Duck Dong]

For what its worth.

I was just trying to express myself and perhaps I didn't come across as I would have liked.

I'm not saying that trans people have it the worst, that would be ridiculous. What I am trying to say is that perhaps you don't see what it means to be trans. What I said to LDD was never meant as an insult , nor was it meant to do anything other than express that I felt some frustration. I do get that some folks have it worse (I grew up with a paraplegic uncle, did a lot of things for him.)

Yes its true, everyone hurts. Who is to blame? No one.

Saying that I am struggling to maintain my gender identity, havent been able to afford hormone shots for a few months and I am struggling with some severe bouts of depression. Right now it feels as if I will be stuck in this damn body forever. I will say this, I will not die with that damn thing still on my body, if I have to hack it off with a spoon.

I apologise too, I handled it the wrong way, and that was inconsiderate of me......

the statement about dealing with depression and struggling to maintain your gender identity is so powerful, so honest...its a marie delta statement personal statement.... that said far more to me about your life and your struggle, than the list, to be honest

I do wish that I had a magic wand to help all the trans people, and give them a life....... the best I can do is help with the depression that takes too many people from us.....

with the depression, it will tear a person apart, I know that all too well... so you need something to give you the edge, gurl..... a statement that you can use to stop the depression eating you alive like a cancer

I do not know if you pray to a deity or not.... but it doesn't matter.... use something like this statement every day as a prayer, a personal affirmation etc... anything that works....

* I am marie delta, PMS is something I am dealing with, but so help me, I am turning up at heavens door in my high heels, my skirt, my blouse and my shoulder length hair and without any * extra baggage * and singing * I am WOMAN, hear me roar if you don't open the door *

( PMS is Pretty Much Struggling, its a term a MtF trans friend created as a way of saying they were having a bad day and it matchs their identity as a lady )

now a secret to depression is that its a loop, you go around and around in circles, and the key to getting out, is finding the next circle over, which is the feel good circle......

for me, I use songs to judge my level of depression and also to find the start of the depression loop, than I use erotic fantasies to trigger a intense emotional and mental reaction ( often a chemical reaction in my brain ) that breaks the depressions hold on me.... and give me back a footing in the other circle.....

so work on what gives you a natural high, makes you feel good, and explore those areas, use visualisations, music etc etc to aid you

dress up in your clothes, and fantasy about a lover caressing you and touching you and only seeing marie delta, nothing else, no partly transistioned person, but marie delta and imagine the most intimate love making, and know that they are making love with you as a person, not just with your body.......

like in the mirror and imagine you doing a pole dance, nude in front of some hot male studs that are keen to touch you, but they can't until you finish your pole dancing ( your pole dancing is your transition ) and while you are dancing, you really lay on the moves and show them that you are the best there ever was......

unfortunately, we do lose the fight with depression at times, the trans gender are no different... but its how we understand why they left that matters more than how they did it.... cos * why * gives us a understanding, and * how * just adds them to a list of stats....

they may not be with us now.... but you can bet ya last dollar the trans MtF are somewhere in a celestial coffee shop raising the roof with the * management * about their issues.....

I bet they are up there saying things like

* if I wanted a dick in my life, I would have married a no hoper....
* I wanted boobs, wtf is up with thinking I wanted man boobs
* I wanted to look good in a skirt, I didn't wanna wear a bloody kilt....
* if I wanted to be a male with body hair, I would have been born as a gorilla
* oh ha ha, I wanted to be screwed by a male, not screwed and be made a male

so hang on to one thing.... you are marie delta, you may not have completed the body image, but in mind and heart, you are marie delta, nothing can take that from you or out of you

[rissababynta]

the statement about dealing with depression and struggling to maintain your gender identity is so powerful, so honest...its a marie delta statement personal statement.... that said far more to me about your life and your struggle, than the list, to be honest



I completely agree. That one statement was so personal and heartfelt...nothing could have compared to that.

Marie, I deeply wish that I was rich so I could pay for all of the treatment and everything needed to help you not feel that way.

[cand86]

I'm kind of surprised by some of the responses here.

I guess I've always viewed privilege checklists as innocent, not threatening. Certainly, I'm sure many of them can come off as militant, but instead of seeing it as "These are things we have to go through that all of you never have to!" (which of course isn't true, as Long Duck Dong and littlerayofsunshine show in their posts), I see them more as reminders of issues faced by minority individuals or those in non-mainstream communities. They're in no way trying to say that the difficulties they face are theirs alone- instead, it's a list of things that cisgender (or white, or male, etc.) folks often don't even realize could be problems.

I know I've had times when I've read them and realized "Wow, I didn't even think about that.", and I honestly do think that a lot of transphobia is based on the idea that people change their sex willy-nilly, that life is a piece of cake, and that a cisgender privilege checklist can firmly remind people that nobody chooses to transition for superficial reasons.

Just me :2cents:

[TaylorMade]

I'm kind of surprised by some of the responses here.

I guess I've always viewed privilege checklists as innocent, not threatening. Certainly, I'm sure many of them can come off as militant, but instead of seeing it as "These are things we have to go through that all of you never have to!" (which of course isn't true, as Long Duck Dong and littlerayofsunshine show in their posts), I see them more as reminders of issues faced by minority individuals or those in non-mainstream communities. They're in no way trying to say that the difficulties they face are theirs alone- instead, it's a list of things that cisgender (or white, or male, etc.) folks often don't even realize could be problems.

I know I've had times when I've read them and realized "Wow, I didn't even think about that.", and I honestly do think that a lot of transphobia is based on the idea that people change their sex willy-nilly, that life is a piece of cake, and that a cisgender privilege checklist can firmly remind people that nobody chooses to transition for superficial reasons.

Just me :2cents:


The thing is, many of us in this forum already know something similar, if not from knowing trans people personally, but from our own personal struggles. Many of us already know prejudice over something we have no control over. The privilege list probably works best with someone who has NEVER been on the wrong side of modern history, which is truly a small group indeed.

Even though I AM a minority (and not just sexually), I never liked "privilege lists". It's not OUR fault society has the social constructs that it does, but the privilege checklists almost implies that it is our fault, creating shame from another direction for something we don't have control over.

*Taylor*

[Long Duck Dong]

This is exactly what I was talking about when I wrote how Trans activists want to shit all over bisexual and gay men on blogs and then they wonder why bisexual and gay men don't support them.



hang on a sec... that remark I posted is out of context... I clarified it further down in the post
" as I have said before and I will say it again.... 80% of the trouble with LGBT issues, is the LGBT themselves... they are so busy fighting to get people to listen and understand, that they are turning on the very people that are standing there supporting them against the nay sayers, cos they are blind to anything but their own view....."

now marie is part of the LGBT community, because she is transgender
and part of the LGBT rights group because she is fighting for acceptance, anti discrimination and the right to marry because of her trans gender status and her sexuality.....

I believe marie id's as bisexual so she is part of the B and the T, and part of this community and a much loved part of it.....

I have never seen marie go at gays and bis or judge them, the way the trans activists can do.....

the trans activists DON'T ask on behalf of all transgender people, in the same way the LGBT do not speak on behalf of all the LGBT.....

and as far as I am concerned...and I know this is going to get me into trouble.... people that are bisexual ( like any other sexuality ) are generally good people that deal with their sexuality maturely and handle their issues well in relationships / marriages etc and out of them.......
but like any sexuality.... we have the ones that wanna make waves cos they think that bisexuality is a ticket to do what ever the fuck they want and if that means shitting on people, they will do it using their sexuality as a excuse..... and they are mainly the ones that are not getting accepted, and its their own fucking fault......
the rest of us get a bad image cos of it.......

its like the transgender.... many are getting a shit deal cos of bullshit other trans people ( activists and the like ) are saying and cos people are too stupid to work out gender is male and female ( or intersex ) and sexuality is LGB straight or undefined......

now if you will excuse me, I am gonna go get my coffin cos I just dug my grave with those remarks......

btw marie.... HUGS... and I hope you are feeling better..... besides you still owe a coffee :P

[littlerayofsunshine]

For what its worth.

I was just trying to express myself and perhaps I didn't come across as I would have liked.

I'm not saying that trans people have it the worst, that would be ridiculous. What I am trying to say is that perhaps you don't see what it means to be trans. What I said to LDD was never meant as an insult , nor was it meant to do anything other than express that I felt some frustration. I do get that some folks have it worse (I grew up with a paraplegic uncle, did a lot of things for him.)

Yes its true, everyone hurts. Who is to blame? No one.

Saying that I am struggling to maintain my gender identity, havent been able to afford hormone shots for a few months and I am struggling with some severe bouts of depression. Right now it feels as if I will be stuck in this damn body forever. I will say this, I will not die with that damn thing still on my body, if I have to hack it off with a spoon.

This means something to me. This makes me feel something. This I can understand and relate to.

Sweet Marie,

I am so sorry that you haven't been able to have your shots. The abrupt drop in hormones will cause depression, that can get severe, specially with all the other worries on top of that. I always battled PPD after giving birth and losing those hormones......that can be a real mind fuck. Talking about it, will help you.

As for the "thing". I look at it this way, it needs to be loved and taken care of, for eventually every inch will be used to make a beautiful pussy.

I wish I could help you. I hate to see a fellow woman dealing with so much and hurting. I can give you (((((hugs))))) and will say a prayer for you. I wish I could do more. :(

[MarieDelta]

hang on a sec... that remark I posted is out of context... I clarified it further down in the post
" as I have said before and I will say it again.... 80% of the trouble with LGBT issues, is the LGBT themselves... they are so busy fighting to get people to listen and understand, that they are turning on the very people that are standing there supporting them against the nay sayers, cos they are blind to anything but their own view....."

now marie is part of the LGBT community, because she is transgender
and part of the LGBT rights group because she is fighting for acceptance, anti discrimination and the right to marry because of her trans gender status and her sexuality.....

I believe marie id's as bisexual so she is part of the B and the T, and part of this community and a much loved part of it.....

I am Bisexual and trans.


I have never seen marie go at gays and bis or judge them, the way the trans activists can do.....

the trans activists DON'T ask on behalf of all transgender people, in the same way the LGBT do not speak on behalf of all the LGBT.....

Can you say eating our young? Hell, some trans activist go after anyone who is not them, including transvestites, crossdressers, drag queens, and other transsexuals. I've seen it, heard it, and felt it. A transwoman I know once remarked to me that all bisexuals were just looking for an orgy. I just looked at her with my mouth open, then reminded her that I am bisexual as well.

In a way though, when looked through the murky lens that is a straight vanilla uneducated (prejudiced?) perspective, we ALL(LGBT) look the same. "Them damn queers, its whats ruining this country...*" That's why we need to hang together, so we don't get hung separately.

*That's a quote- I have heard that, and similar sentiments my whole career (Construction inspection) from various sources. By the way when I say "uneducated" , I don't mean the type of education you get in a school...



and as far as I am concerned...and I know this is going to get me into trouble.... people that are bisexual ( like any other sexuality ) are generally good people that deal with their sexuality maturely and handle their issues well in relationships / marriages etc and out of them.......
but like any sexuality.... we have the ones that wanna make waves cos they think that bisexuality is a ticket to do what ever the fuck they want and if that means shitting on people, they will do it using their sexuality as a excuse..... and they are mainly the ones that are not getting accepted, and its their own fucking fault......
the rest of us get a bad image cos of it.......

its like the transgender.... many are getting a shit deal cos of bullshit other trans people ( activists and the like ) are saying and cos people are too stupid to work out gender is male and female ( or intersex ) and sexuality is LGB straight or undefined......

now if you will excuse me, I am gonna go get my coffin cos I just dug my grave with those remarks......

btw marie.... HUGS... and I hope you are feeling better..... besides you still owe a coffee :P

I'm feeling a bit better today , thanks everyone for the kind words, thoughts, and prayers. You don't know(or maybe you do) how much it means to me.

Now, LDD, about that coffee...

[TwylaTwobits]

Marie......hugs ya tight and hopes that it will ease at least a minute of your depression. You are a valuable person because of WHO you are not WHAT you are. Just think on this when you start questioning things, you are Marie Delta, you are an extraordianary human being going through a process that most can only sympathize with but not relate to. You are a caring and vital part of this site because of your mind, not your body.

So when ya come to have that coffee with LDD, Goddess willing I will be there at his side and will welcome you into our home with open, not opinionated, hearts and minds.

[transcendMental]

First off, I admit I don't really like the negative way the items in Marie's list are stated. I don't think it's the most effective way to say those things or to explain notions of privilege. But I don't get the sense that Marie wrote the list. I guess I could be wrong, but it sounded like something she pulled from somewhere else.

But as a recently transitioned transperson who also deals daily with almost all of the items on Marie's list for the single reason that I am trans, and who currently has no level of cisgender privilege, I'm a bit put off by the attitudes here.

A straight person viewing this site could easily say hey, I'm sick of hearing bisexuals bitching about how hard it is not to cheat because they're bi. My husband and I are both straight and I've had to deal with his cheating. Or my husband and I are both straight, and I find it hard not to cheat too. What I want to hear are the angst-ridden desperate pleas for sanity by bisexuals, not this "here's something I have to deal with" crap.

Well lah-de-dah. Not to minimize that person's issues, but their problems with cheating happen to be different from a bisexual person's issues. There is nothing about being straight that by definition makes having a single partner problematic. Cheating may be a common problem, but it has special relevance to the bisexual world.

Similarly, I don't want to minimize Ray and LDD's issues. It sounds like you both have some unfair discomforts. But the point remains that cisgender people as a group have certain rights that are institutionally denied to transpeople as a group. A given cisgender person may lack one or more of these rights, too, for various reasons, but cisgender people are not denied those rights as a group the way transpeople are. And all of a transperson's lack of rights stem from the fact that they are trans. So though of course these problems may be experienced by some other people, too, they have special relevance to the transsexual world.

The suggestion that in order to get some understanding, we have to reduce our daily trauma for you to desperate emotional sound bites that are easily consumed just makes me ill.

tm