Bisexual Tolerance or Fanaticism

[tenni]

Fanaticism is a belief or behavior involving uncritical zeal, particularly for an extreme religious or political cause or with an obsessive enthusiasm for a pastime or hobby.

Philosopher George Santayana defines fanaticism as "redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim"[1]; according to Winston Churchill, [B]"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject".

By either description the fanatic displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.

The subject of the fanatic's obsession may be "normal", such as an interest in religion or politics, except that the scale of the person's involvement, devotion, or obsession with the activity or cause is abnormal or disproportionate.


Being a bisexual is to exist outside of mainsteam society's norms when it comes to sex.


In a bisexual website, what do you hope for as far as acceptance from other bisexuals?

Do you look for tolerance of differences?
Do you expect all bisexuals to fit the same "mould"?

[Jackal]

according to Winston Churchill, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject".

By either description the fanatic displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.

The subject of the fanatic's obsession may be "normal", such as an interest in religion or politics, except that the scale of the person's involvement, devotion, or obsession with the activity or cause is abnormal or disproportionate.



It seems that you won't change your mind about how the bisexuals on this site think or feel and are so unable to change the subject that you made a separate thread about it. This is not a call for tolerance (which isn't the same thing as acceptance) it is a call for others to accept your standards as their own.

How about respect? Can we all agree to at least be respectful of differing view points? We don't have to like each other or agree, just respect one another.

[tenni]

Actually, I accept that most are against what is called cheating. I see tolerance in some respects. I see fantaticism in others as well. The difference is where the lines are drawn.

[FalconAngel]

Actually, I accept that most are against what is called cheating.

Is that what this thread is about? the intolerance of cheating?


I see tolerance in some respects. I see fantaticism in others as well. The difference is where the lines are drawn.

I wonder where the fanaticism is really coming from, though.
You will find very few people here that will tolerate cheating at all.

If you want tolerance of that, then you are very definitely barking up the wrong tree, here.
It would serve better to just drop the subject and accept that people do not tend to tolerate things that are considered to be, for all intents and purposes, "universally" immoral. At least in the Anglo-European culture that we are living in.

A large portion of the people here are in relationships where the boundaries are either being worked out honestly or have been worked out honestly.

There are also those that have been cheated on in past relationships, so tolerance of cheating will just not happen and expecting them to do so will be like expecting a victim of a robbery to tolerate the crime.
Not going to happen.

So the fanatic is the one trying to convince everyone else that they are right when they have an indefensible position.

faith is belief in the absence of fact, but foolishness is belief in contradiction of fact.

Just consider it.

[tenni]

Falcon
Yes, I can see that most do not agree with cheating but I had expected more tolerance of differences from bisexuals. Hell, I don't think that it is the best solution myself but I am willing to give some slack and tolerance to those who find themselves doing that. I wrote that originally but then offer some tolerance to those who find themselves in such a situation. I just haven't been screaming that it is wrong.

I do expect tolerance of differences on a bisexual website. Forget the cheating idea but how some approach different perspectives from their own. If we are to go with majority rules, then bisexuality is just wrong as far as much of mainstream society is concerned.

In order to get tolerance, lets give some tolerance and be less judgmental. I read that tolerance in several areas....but not enough in other areas.

[tenni]

Falcon if I may

"people do not tend to tolerate things that are considered to be, for all intents and purposes, "universally" immoral. At least in the Anglo-European culture that we are living in."


Why do you think that a bisexual site should adhere to a universal morality as deemed by Judeo Christian morality? (or Anglo-European culture...btw..the French culture generally accepts mistresses as nothing to be upset about)

Bisexuality, polyamour, and other forms of sexuality are universally immoral by Judeo Christian morality.

[Jackal]

Why do you think that a bisexual site should adhere to a universal morality as deemed by Judeo Christian morality? (or Anglo-European culture...btw..the French culture generally accepts mistresses as nothing to be upset about)

Bisexuality, polyamour, and other forms of sexuality are universally immoral by Judeo Christian morality.


People are allowed to choose what 'morals' they adhere to and believe in. Hopefully they pick ones with some kind of basis for existing. Since there has been no really good reason (or evidence from texts or deity) about non-het. sexuality, we choose to disbelieve that 'moral'. Or some people don't, and have to struggle with desires in conflict with their morality. Morality are individual things, so people who may say one seemingly similar thing is okay might have reason to condemn another.

I have to agree with Falcon that the fanatic is the one who tries to convince people of an unjustified opinion; repeatedly.

[FalconAngel]

Falcon
Yes, I can see that most do not agree with cheating but I had expected more tolerance of differences from bisexuals. Hell, I don't think that it is the best solution myself but I am willing to give some slack and tolerance to those who find themselves doing that. I wrote that originally but then offer some tolerance to those who find themselves in such a situation. I just haven't been screaming that it is wrong.

I do expect tolerance of differences on a bisexual website. Forget the cheating idea but how some approach different perspectives from their own. If we are to go with majority rules, then bisexuality is just wrong as far as much of mainstream society is concerned.

In order to get tolerance, lets give some tolerance and be less judgmental. I read that tolerance in several areas....but not enough in other areas.

Differences are one thing one thing, such as race, religion, national origin, height, weight, body type, etc..

Those are differences. And we have tons of them in the people here on this site.

Where you have it so radically wrong is not in the differences. it is in the moral compass.

Wrong is wrong, so if you are with someone that cannot or will not accept you for everything that you are, including your sexuality or gender orientation, then you should not be with that person.
Don't cheat; just leave. Simple, common sense solution and far better and infinitely more acceptable than cheating.

As far as our sexuality, majority does not rule. Sexuality, like Gender at birth, is not a "choice" that we make. Like skin color and body type, it is what we are born with.

Just because we are Bi, does not mean that we lack a moral compass, telling us right from wrong. To think otherwise does a big disservice to us and to yourself.
And I am not talking about a "religion-based" moral compass (as you have indirectly, possibly accidentally, alluded to), but the "common decency" moral compass of treating others with the decency and honesty that you would want to get in return.
If you cheat on someone, then do not be surprised when you get cheated on and don't act all superior when you become the victim of it.
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[FalconAngel]

Falcon if I may

"people do not tend to tolerate things that are considered to be, for all intents and purposes, "universally" immoral. At least in the Anglo-European culture that we are living in."


Why do you think that a bisexual site should adhere to a universal morality as deemed by Judeo Christian morality? (or Anglo-European culture...btw..the French culture generally accepts mistresses as nothing to be upset about)

Bisexuality, polyamour, and other forms of sexuality are universally immoral by Judeo Christian morality.

Again, you have it all wrong and from the wrong perspective. I clearly stated the Anglo-European culture, not religion of any kind.

Insinuation of any religion's values into this discussion is a complete misunderstanding of the facts.
Religion does not apply in this case, or any case involving basic societal concepts of right and wrong as it applies to relationships in the GLBT community (or the straight community) and the romantic relationships that we have. They vary from couple to couple, but since the types of relationships that we have are outside of any one religion's norms, then the standards established by any specific religion do not apply at all.

However, and this is the most important lesson to learn in understanding this, when we are talking about social, not religious, "universal ideals of morality", we are talking about ideals that are held by all cultures and all religions.
We are talking about basic right and wrong, integrity, honesty and a host of other ideological concepts that transcend religious and cultural differences.

Basically, and this is a universal truth, if you have to lie to do other than to create a greater good for all concerned (such as getting a child out of a burning building, for example), then you are wrong. Cheating does not create a greater good. It is selfish and nowhere near an act of love, concern or consideration.

If you have to lie because you want to do something that you have to hide from your partner, then you know that you are doing something that you should not be doing.

Moral compass.

Right and wrong.

No religion needed, just honesty with yourself and others.
If one cannot manage that, then one needs to re-calibrate one's own moral compass.

[FalconAngel]

Actually the French people and their culture, are not that accepting of cheating or of a married man having a mistress.

I have French friends and they told me how their families have been destroyed and divorced by a parent cheating on the other one.

Which is another example that proves my point about cheating and lying. It is a human cultural more that is being broken and is universally not accepted in our society.



As far as the philosophies that you are writing about polyamory that is nothing more than an open relationship no matter how you want to define it or call it.


Actually, I never mentioned poly or open relationships, specifically.
But since you have brought that specific example up, let's use them.

Open relationships and polyamorous relationships, while falling outside of the "norm" in Anglo-European culture, are not universally outside of all common social mores. There have been, and still are, cultures throughout world history that have had those types of relationships, including early (pre-Roman) European culture and is still alive in some Middle Eastern cultures in some respects.

But the subject here is respecting the idea of cheating and those who decide to cheat on their spouses, which is dishonest and deceptive, therefore not deserving of respect or acceptance.

Open marriages and poly relationships are not like that. Complete honesty is paramount in both of those relationships and, from what I have learned from friends in those types of relationships, the ones that work depend more heavily on honesty and openness than the vast majority of monogamous relationships do. It makes one wonder what we are doing wrong, in that respect.

That says a lot about those relationship, too.



Also people can be a certain religion such as Christian or Jewish and still be bisexual or gay/lesbian, or trans and it's OK with that religion since those religions' main teachings say nothing about homosexuality/bisexuality as we know them today and what anti-GLBT bigots try to pass off as those religions being against homosexuality or being GLBT are translated wrong or have been over the years and had nothing to do with sex at all originally.

Yes and no.

In most religions, you can be any sexuality or gender that exists, but as far as sexuality, you cannot act on some of those things without being excommunicated from the religion.
And in most cases, you can not even admit that you are GLBT without being ostracized and booted out of the church. Islam is even worse than Christianity in that respect.
As far as Judaism, I haven't heard word one from them, one way or the other, so any Jews here, could you clue us in on the issue from that side?

The monotheistic religions; at least the more vocal ones, do not tolerate any GLBT in their congregations (reference Ted Haggarty as an example). At least the majority of them don't tolerate it.

While you are partly right about what their books say, sadly, the masses still blindly follow the leaders, who are the core source of the problem in that respect.

Christianity and Islam are the prime movers in the crusade for intolerance and hate. And while some Christians do not follow that agenda of hate and intolerance, they are not in the majority. Until all of the biggest leaders change their song, it will not likely change in favor of true tolerance.

But religion and it's tolerance, or lack thereof, is a different subject, altogether.

Morality existed long before religion, as we know it. It began with the first small groups of humans, long before Humans even developed language. As a species, we developed certain standards of right and wrong that have evolved with our societies and later became partly codified under religion and laws.

But at the core of it is the basic concepts of right and wrong. It is wrong to lie/deceive for personal gain.
If one has to cover up and lie about what one is doing, then they must be doing something wrong (this does not apply to those planning surprise parties, buying gifts, or similar good deeds for others).

[tenni]

"But the subject here is respecting the idea of cheating and those who decide to cheat on their spouses, which is dishonest and deceptive, therefore not deserving of respect or acceptance."

Falcon
Actually the subject is not about cheating. You will not find that word in my OP.

The first response was
"It seems that you won't change your mind about how the bisexuals on this site think or feel and are so unable to change the subject that you made a separate thread about it. "

From that post I mentioned cheating as I thought that the second poster was referring to the dominant repeated discussion about cheating.

If we may get back to the OP please and try to avoid discussion of "cheating" specifically.

[tenni]

In a bisexual website, what do you hope for as far as acceptance from other bisexuals?

Do you look for tolerance of differences?
Do you expect all bisexuals to fit the same "mould"?

It would seem that the first responder expects me (another bisexual) to fit the mould that he supports?

[tenni]

"Just because we are Bi, does not mean that we lack a moral compass, telling us right from wrong."

I do think that a discussion about what bisexuals accept from their mainstream society as right or wrong is on topic.

I think that the discussion about our cultural melieu that we are in may be a factor in how much tolerance a bisexual accepts from other bisexuals who hold a different perspective is legitimate to the thread topic.

Religion plays a significant role in determining a culture's values and morality as to what is right or wrong in my opinion. Here Falcon and I disagree. Now, a culture may develop morality outside of any religious influence depending upon how much power that religion holds within the society. This is not fixed and has varied over time. Even societies who claim to be secular are often strongly influenced by a certain religion as to morality. Two countries side by side may hold similar moral values but they may also differ. I agree that there are universal morals such as stealing, cheating, killing that has been found in a variety of cultures. Whether these are universal truths, may be a point of discussion with Plato...lol

Sexual morality is not a universal though. If one society or a group of societies perceives a sexual behaviour as immoral does that make it a universal moral? Not necessarily so if you examine same sex marriage. Canada has legalized same sex marriage while its neighbour the US is struggling with this question. Is it a universal moral to state that equality of a minority such sex(LGBT), race, disability etc. should not be discriminated by the majority in a society. In Canada, the answer is yes. In the US it is not. Religion has played a significant role in the resistence to tolerate same sex marriage. There may have been bisexuals who saw same sex marriage as morally wrong. Generally, in Western societies this was perceived as a "universal moral" about what was right or wrong. There is a shift happening. Some western societies do place a higher value on equality and that minorities should not be discriminated by the majority. It has required much discussion and debate to alter the morality about same sex marriage.

Similarly, bisexuals are member of a mainstream society. If they are able to function and practice their sexuality without crossing over a moral value that the majority in the society holds as a universal truth, they live comfortable. They may even condemn other bisexuals for not doing the "right" thing. They are ashamed of these other bisexuals. There has been no need for some to re examine the so called universal truth...which could mean things such as same sex is wrong. etc. There have been fanatics who have preached about the immorality of same sex marriage.

[rissababynta]

Tenni, who really cares about all this mental masturbation?

Do you just like to see yourself post drivel that has no importance at all?

Lmao GayAZN, I am really beginning to like you.

[FalconAngel]

In a bisexual website, what do you hope for as far as acceptance from other bisexuals?

Do you look for tolerance of differences?
Do you expect all bisexuals to fit the same "mould"?

It would seem that the first responder expects me (another bisexual) to fit the mould that he supports?


Okay. You are talking about tolerance in general. Why should Bisexuals be more or less tolerant of things in general than anyone else?

Which mold are you talking about?
We do not fit into any mold other than the one we are in that is called Bisexual. Outside of that one aspect, we do not fit any different "mold" than our Gay/straight counterparts.

Are you new to being Bi and just don't understand that being Bi is only one aspect of us or is this from somewhere else?

Does the fact that we are no different than anyone else, if you discount our sexuality, confuse this issue?
I mean, you are asking questions in a way that clouds the information that you are appearing to seek.

What are you trying to find tolerance for, here, that you do not seem to find anywhere else?

Really. Considering the fact that the last few threads that you started have been on the acceptance of cheating, what do you expect us all to think that you are asking about?

Give us a clearer question and we can answer it.

But if you are going to be vague about the subject, then don't be surprised if everyone sees this as just another post begging for acceptance of what you have been most on about; cheating.

[meimei]

I just wanna read some dirty stories!

Just kiddin'..........kinda! Maybe not???

Does that make me a "bi-sexual wanna-be?"