Possible Bisexual interpretation for Monogomy

[tenni]

I would like to invite posters to begin to examine a new interpretation for "monogomy" when it comes to bisexuality.


Why can bisexuals not promote that monogomy refers to being faithful to a partner of one gender?

That would permit monogomy to include two partners. One male and one female partner would be a new bisexual interpretation for the word monogomy. If bisexuals accept and promote this idea amongst ourselves heteros may expand and understand who and what we are. If a bisexual wishes only one partner at a time they are adhering to traditional (Christian?) monogomy. First, we must redifine monogomy for ourselves and then spread the word to expand this term to the larger mainstream society. Straight partners would not feel so threatened and fear rejection if fhe mainstream and bisexuals themselves altered their opinion on what monogomy means.

[rissababynta]

Like I have said, and most of us have said before, as long as all parties are involved with the decision making and they are ok with it, it's fine.

[tenni]

"as long as all parties are involved with the decision making and they are ok with it, it's fine.
__________________

You then support this concept and could grow to accept it if your partner suggested it? You would not feel threatened if your partner had another partner of the opposite gender from yourself?

[rissababynta]

mmmkay?

[mikey3000]

Why do some people think it's ok to speak for the "most of us"? At last check, there were thousands of members here. I hardly think a few represent the most. By the number of times I get hit on here, I'm guessing that "most" are playing on the side.

[rissababynta]

Why do some people think it's ok to speak for the "most of us"? At last check, there were thousands of members here. I hardly think a few represent the most. By the number of times I get hit on here, I'm guessing that "most" are playing on the side.

Oh excuse me...i meant most of us here that speak regularly in forums that make it obvious that we dont' like cheating everytime someone likes to bring it up. I'll be sure to clarify next time since I seemed to have forgotten that some people here (that speak in forum) like to pick apart every detail of a post.

[HelloToYou]

Well, your definition of "monogamy" isn't monogamy. What we need to do is get people to understand the difference between polyamory and polygamy and an open relationship. What you're describing, one partner of each sex, is polyamory, not monogamy. It can also be looked at as polygamy, but if the two people are just as much in a relationship with each other as they are with you, it is polyamory.

[tenni]

rissababynta
You have agreed that you would be comfortable if your partner was with another man. From your profile, your partner is aware of your bisexuality and I would assume is comfortable if you have a female partner. The issue seems to be about having an open understanding between partners.

In your opinion(not most people ;) what is it about the North American society that makes it difficult for bisexuals from sharing their bisexuality with potential partners and desire to have one male and one female partner?

How can this attitude and fear (of rejection) be altered to be more accepting of bisexuality?

In my opinion, this is at the crux about the entire concept about a "cheating" taboo. If a bisexual condemns another bisexual for having partners of both genders and shows intolerance of the difficulty of exposure-disclosure, it seems sad. Why not share with readers here, how you developed your relationship so that your male partner became accepting of you having a female parnter as well?

Is there more tolerance of males (straight?) accepting a bisexual female partner than females (straight) accepting a bisexual male partner in our society?

[littlerayofsunshine]

Last time I checked websters wasn't a christian periodical and states nothing about any particular sex

Monogamy (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monogamy)

But this shouldn't be confused with Fidelity (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fidelity)


You can't have monogamy without fidelity, but you can have fidelity with or without monogamy.

Cheater's go against one and lack the other.

Simple....

[tenni]

littlerayofsunshine
Those definitions are written from a mainstream western perspective that has been historically influenced by Christianity and morality from a heterosexual Christian perspective. Are they really applicable to bisexuality or tolerant of bisexuality if bisexual men find it so difficult to begin an open discussion with their female mates? There is something wrong going on in mainstream society if married women are threatened by male bissexuality. Bisexuals may need to explore the concept from outside of mainstream definitions.

[rissababynta]

rissababynta
You have agreed that you would be comfortable if your partner was with another man. From your profile, your partner is aware of your bisexuality and I would assume is comfortable if you have a female partner. The issue seems to be about having an open understanding between partners.

In your opinion(not most people ;) what is it about the North American society that makes it difficult for bisexuals from sharing their bisexuality with potential partners and desire to have one male and one female partner?

How can this attitude and fear (of rejection) be altered to be more accepting of bisexuality?

In my opinion, this is at the crux about the entire concept about a "cheating" taboo. If a bisexual condemns another bisexual for having partners of both genders and shows intolerance of the difficulty of exposure-disclosure, it seems sad. Why not share with readers here, how you developed your relationship so that your male partner became accepting of you having a female parnter as well?

Is there more tolerance of males (straight?) accepting a bisexual female partner than females (straight) accepting a bisexual male partner in our society?

At what point has anyone here condemned anyone from being with more than one person? All anyone has said is that if all parties are not ok with it, then it is NOT OK. That goes for a bisexual, a straight person or a gay person.

In my case, my husband knew I was bisexual when we first met because I felt it was important to let him know that about me. I laid my stuff out on the table before we ever had a relationship so we both knew what to expect out of the other.

[mikey3000]

Dude, your brilliance is showing again. And it's getting me all hot ;). Dinner again? LOL!!! If you just stayed put long enough!!!!!


littlerayofsunshine
Those definitions are written from a mainstream western perspective that has been historically influenced by Christianity and morality from a heterosexual Christian perspective. Are they really applicable to bisexuality or tolerant of bisexuality if bisexual men find it so difficult to begin an open discussion with their female mates? There is something wrong going on in mainstream society if married women are threatened by male bissexuality. Bisexuals may need to explore the concept from outside of mainstream definitions.

[rissababynta]

facepalm

[littlerayofsunshine]

littlerayofsunshine
Those definitions are written from a mainstream western perspective that has been historically influenced by Christianity and morality from a heterosexual Christian perspective. Are they really applicable to bisexuality or tolerant of bisexuality if bisexual men find it so difficult to begin an open discussion with their female mates? There is something wrong going on in mainstream society if married women are threatened by male bissexuality. Bisexuals may need to explore the concept from outside of mainstream definitions.


You discuss bisexuality as if it is a handicap. Last time I checked having a penis or vagina wasn't a handicap.

There is nothing "special" about what one does with their sexual organs while having sexual relations, that deems a special definition of any kind.

Why don't bisexual men, redefine their own marriage and tell their spouses, so their marriage can change???

Quite blaming others for the behaviors of cheating people. Cheaters only have to blame themselves. Not their spouse, not society...

My husband is a bisexual male and he has never cheated on any one...

I am a bisexual female I have never cheated on anyone...

We won't take on a partner that is a cheater. They are untrustworthy and aren't worthy to share our sexuality with.

[tenni]

"In my case, my husband knew I was bisexual when we first met because I felt it was important to let him know that about me. I laid my stuff out on the table before we ever had a relationship so we both knew what to expect out of the other."

rissababynta
I think that was very wise and admirable of you. You clearly were aware of your sexuality before entering into a relationship with him. Your husband knew where you were coming from. You do leave some points out and I don't mean to pry into your husbands privacy but was it difficult for him to accept you possibily being with another woman? Many straight men are known to be turned on by two women together. It is possible that straight partnered women may be turned on by two men together but I don't hear a lot about that and how it impacts the concept of monogomy in straight women. What I do hear more about is straight women finding it threatening if their male partner becomes involved with a man. Some if not most, see it as cheating and breaking their marriage vows rather than seeing their husband honouring his vows as long as he is not with another woman.

There may be more taboo about male/male relationships than female/female relationships in our western societies. I suspect that it is difficult for both men and women who enter a marriage without an awareness of their sexuality to disclose later in the marriage to their partner than those who are aware before a marriage.

What are your thoughts on this?

[FalconAngel]

Well, your definition of "monogamy" isn't monogamy. What we need to do is get people to understand the difference between polyamory and polygamy and an open relationship. What you're describing, one partner of each sex, is polyamory, not monogamy. It can also be looked at as polygamy, but if the two people are just as much in a relationship with each other as they are with you, it is polyamory.

Very true.

We don't need to redefine monogamy. We need to let people understand what we are and what makes us tick, as best we can.

Redefining monogamy will only be met with hostile opposition, like the many times that "marriage" has been redefined.

Education is the solution. If a person or group is adamant about not accepting who or what we are, then nothing that we do will help that, but educating all of the people that we are able is the only way to make a difference.

When people don't understand, we should stop and tell them the truth. Just use common sense about it all.

Trying to redefine monogamy is a backwards way to do it, in this particular case.
The best, easiest and most effective solution is in education, not redefinition.

Redefining monogamy will not serve to remove the negative stereotypes and misinformation about Bisexuals, but will, instead, re-enforce them.

This issue is not something that a "quick and dirty" solution will work for. The only real solution is slow and steady. Education and awareness is the only real solution that will be met with the least resistance.

Ideas such as redefining something that has already been clearly defined and is clear as to it's singular meaning, is completely impractical and clouds the issues. That creates opposition that we do not need, and if we can reduce or eliminate opposition, then it makes our work that much easier, since we will not need to commit our personal or group resources to something that is, in fact, an unnecessary action.

Monogamy is what it is, a commitment to a single individual.
Redefinition is counterproductive, since there are other types of relationships that are already defined and cover the various relationship styles in which Bisexuals find themselves.
What we need is a clarification of the many types of relationships out there that apply to all people, including Bisexuals.

[rissababynta]

"In my case, my husband knew I was bisexual when we first met because I felt it was important to let him know that about me. I laid my stuff out on the table before we ever had a relationship so we both knew what to expect out of the other."

rissababynta
I think that was very wise and admirable of you. You clearly were aware of your sexuality before entering into a relationship with him. Your husband knew where you were coming from. You do leave some points out and I don't mean to pry into your husbands privacy but was it difficult for him to accept you possibily being with another woman? Many straight men are known to be turned on by two women together. It is possible that straight partnered women may be turned on by two men together but I don't hear a lot about that and how it impacts the concept of monogomy in straight women. What I do hear more about is straight women finding it threatening if their male partner becomes involved with a man. Some if not most, see it as cheating and breaking their marriage vows rather than seeing their husband honouring his vows as long as he is not with another woman.

There may be more taboo about male/male relationships than female/female relationships in our western societies. I suspect that it is difficult for both men and women who enter a marriage without an awareness of their sexuality to disclose later in the marriage to their partner than those who are aware before a marriage.

What are your thoughts on this?

He had no problem with it at all.
And as for people finding themselves after they are already married, well, I don't see anything difficult about being honest. It's really not that hard and if it is, then you probably should never have married that person to begin with.

In the end, I fail to see how any of that justifies someone being sneaky just to fulfill a selfish desire.

[mikey3000]

Actually, monogamy literally means to marry only once.

monogamy
1612, from Fr. monogamie, from L.L. monogamia, from Gk. monogamia, from monogamos "marrying only once," from monos "single, alone" + gamos "marriage." Monogamous first recorded 1770.

But as you can see, it's definition has been redefined to mean to marry only one. Big difference. Just as the word marriage has evolved to become valid in today's society.

Words and their meaning evolve in a growing society.

[rissababynta]

You discuss bisexuality as if it is a handicap. Last time I checked having a penis or vagina wasn't a handicap.

There is nothing "special" about what one does with their sexual organs while having sexual relations, that deems a special definition of any kind.

Why don't bisexual men, redefine their own marriage and tell their spouses, so their marriage can change???

Quite blaming others for the behaviors of cheating people. Cheaters only have to blame themselves. Not their spouse, not society...

My husband is a bisexual male and he has never cheated on any one...

I am a bisexual female I have never cheated on anyone...

We won't take on a partner that is a cheater. They are untrustworthy and aren't worthy to share our sexuality with.

Well put. In other words, for those who have a hard time understanding, this means instead of changing words and definitions to fit your lifestyle, worry about changing yourself so your lifestyle can be easier and more honorable lived.

[tenni]

"We won't take on a partner that is a cheater. They are untrustworthy and aren't worthy to share our sexuality with."

ittlerayofsunshine
If you do not see bisexuality as a handicap in our society I am a bit surprised. Do you openly discuss your bisexuality as casually with strangers as you might discuss the weather? Do you have a tolerant perspective about same sex relationships co existing with a male/female sexual relationship? Most people in our western societies would write no. Most bisexuals would write no. Our mainstream society does not tolerate bisexuality and neither does a large segment of the gay communities. Until bisexuals clarify amongst themselves and then promote an alternative perspective mainstream society will see bisexuals as gay or condemn them as worse than gay.

Your above statement reflects a rather confusing perspective but you may have good personal experiences for holding that perspective. What do you mean by a potential partner "cheater"? Is it about non disclosure or something else?

Would I be correct to believe that you see a partnered person of the same gender as yourself would not remain faithful to you and to her husband? However, you seem to indicate that you would be faithful to both your husband and a female lover? Do I have that correct?

Why don't bisexual men redefine their own marriage and tell their spouses is a very good question. You reject that it is societal and female perspectives and think that the guy is blaming others. Do you really believe that most straight women would tolerate their husbands having sex with another man? Where is your data to prove that? Many women see it as cheating and kick the hubby to the curb. Straight women seem to fear this aspect. They state that they can not compete with a man and see it as a threat instead of a non threat. Few in society try to convince the wife that he is not cheating on her and that includes the courts. There is little in societal discussions to prove otherwise.

[tenni]

"changing words and definitions to fit your lifestyle, worry about changing yourself so your lifestyle can be easier and more honorable lived.'

How do these words co exist with same sex marriage? In Canada, this has changed. The meaning has been argued and found by our Supreme Court to be a violation of our constitution on equality. The Christian Right has argued that the word "marriage" only applies to opposite sex relationships. The word's meaning has changed through explaining what was really going on. "Lifestyle" is a word used to discriminate against gays and bisexuals. By using that word you are inferring that bisexuality is a choice. Do you really believe that you are a bisexual by choice? Your choice may be to remain in a heterosexual relationship and not have a same sex relationship. That is a choice but why impose it on all bisexuals?

[rissababynta]

"changing words and definitions to fit your lifestyle, worry about changing yourself so your lifestyle can be easier and more honorable lived.'

How do these words co exist with same sex marriage? In Canada, this has changed. The meaning has been argued and found by our Supreme Court to be a violation of our constitution on equality. The Christian Right has argued that the word "marriage" only applies to opposite sex relationships. The word's meaning has changed through explaining what was really going on. "Lifestyle" is a word used to discriminate against gays and bisexuals. By using that word you are inferring that bisexuality is a choice. Do you really believe that you are a bisexual by choice? Your choice may be to remain in a heterosexual relationship and not have a same sex relationship. That is a choice but why impose it on all bisexuals?

What the hell does this have to do with anything? What does changing your own relationship so you can have better communication about your sexuality have to do with gay marriage?

And since when does lifestyle mean any of that?

You have officially confused the fuck out of me.

[tenni]

"What we need is a clarification of the many types of relationships out there that apply to all people, including Bisexuals."

Falcon Angel
I agree with much that you write and whether the word monogomy is redefined or legislation is changed to make bisexuality more acceptable within a society is an on going point of discussion. We need to clarify and not name call or belittle those bisexuals who differ from us and take a different path. Tolerance of those who are experiencing difficulty if they entered a marriage with an opposite sex person rather than using words like "cheater" while discussing this amongst ourselves. Then move forward to mainstream society and alter things to make it more acceptable to be bisexual.

[rissababynta]

"What we need is a clarification of the many types of relationships out there that apply to all people, including Bisexuals."

Falcon Angel
I agree with much that you write and whether the word monogomy is redefined or legislation is changed to make bisexuality more acceptable within a society is an on going point of discussion. We need to clarify and not name call or belittle those bisexuals who differ from us and take a different path. Tolerance of those who are experiencing difficulty if they entered a marriage with an opposite sex person rather than using words like "cheater" while discussing this amongst ourselves. Then move forward to mainstream society and alter things to make it more acceptable to be bisexual.

If someone is a cheater, then that's just the way it is. Just because a bisexual is with someone of the opposite sex and playing with someone of the same doesnt' make them a cheater. If they are being dishonest about it, then it is.

And i think everyone here is pretty tolerable of most things, but to act like someone is doing wrong by not being tolerable of actions that out and out hurt people is pretty ridiculous...

[Shhhhh 47/F/usa]

Pardon me tenni, but are you seeking validation of the opinion that it's acceptable to have one wife and one male lover? If that's the case then who cares what society thinks about it? The only opinions that matter are your wife's, your lover, and you. Does your wife have a problem with sharing you with some one else? If she does then all this yapping about societal taboo's and western morals seems like a way to justify unethical behavior under the guise of intellectual clap trap. Or did I miss the point?

[mikey3000]

"What we need is a clarification of the many types of relationships out there that apply to all people, including Bisexuals."

Falcon Angel
I agree with much that you write and whether the word monogomy is redefined or legislation is changed to make bisexuality more acceptable within a society is an on going point of discussion. We need to clarify and not name call or belittle those bisexuals who differ from us and take a different path. Tolerance of those who are experiencing difficulty if they entered a marriage with an opposite sex person rather than using words like "cheater" while discussing this amongst ourselves. Then move forward to mainstream society and alter things to make it more acceptable to be bisexual.

I agree 100%. No one benefits from derogatory name calling, except of course, and due to the newly learned fact that they were once the injured party, the person doing the name calling. That is no way to fix a situation. And that's my personal opinion.:tongue:

[FalconAngel]

Actually, monogamy literally means to marry only once.

monogamy
1612, from Fr. monogamie, from L.L. monogamia, from Gk. monogamia, from monogamos "marrying only once," from monos "single, alone" + gamos "marriage." Monogamous first recorded 1770.

But as you can see, it's definition has been redefined to mean to marry only one. Big difference. Just as the word marriage has evolved to become valid in today's society.

Words and their meaning evolve in a growing society.

Very good point.

For decades, it held the current meaning, but also remember that, in context to when it was defined, marriage was for life, so "marrying only once" would have held the same basic meaning as it does today, in the context of the social and religious mores of the times, since the vast majority of marriages were for life ("divorce is something they only do in England"-name that movie:bigrin:).

So really the perception of the meaning is what has changed as much as the meaning itself, over the years.
But we see that in a lot of words. As society changes, so do meanings and definition of meanings of older, common words.

But the real point, as shown by the original definition (thanks for that, btw), is that it means to be with only one person and, understood to be faithful to that one person.
And this serves to prove what I said before. That there are a number of different relationships that define our relationships as bisexual people and as Bisexuals that are married to straight or Gay partners, dealing with our bisexuality within the context of keeping our sexuality alive while keeping our individual committed relationships functioning.

[tenni]

Shhhhh 47/F/usa
Why are you making an assumption that I'm married? I think that it would be less discriminatory not to make that assumption and merely stick with the concepts.

I'm discussing having a relationship with a man and a woman at the same time and considering it as a type of monogomous scenario. I accept that the term monogomy may refer to only one but let's push that a bit and apply it to one person from each gender. Why not expand the traditional hetero word to mean something new for us? That way words like "cheater", "promiscuous", etc. are not used to put others down. Somehow, I see polyamour as a bit broader but that is just my discomfort showing. Monogomous polyamour ...lol? Its just how I see things. I may have to re examine things. I am here to learn.

[rissababynta]

Pardon me tenni, but are you seeking validation of the opinion that it's acceptable to have one wife and one male lover? If that's the case then who cares what society thinks about it? The only opinions that matter are your wife's, your lover, and you. Does your wife have a problem with sharing you with some one else? If she does then all this yapping about societal taboo's and western morals seems like a way to justify unethical behavior under the guise of intellectual clap trap. Or did I miss the point?

Exactly...I know where you were going with this...

[Nadir]

I have read most of the opinions expressed in this thread and so far,I must say that all of them have some degree of truth on their words. However,I think that I agree more with littlerayofsunshine and rissababynta. I dont think that bisexuality means that you cannot be monogamous, I think that´s one of the stereotypes about bisexuals that some people like to use. If you are into a relationship with someone, and both you and the other person are happy and Ok with it, I see no reason to find another lover, even if you have some degree of attaction to the other sex. You are with the person that you love, after all, it should be enough for many people. I think that littlerayofsunshine said something very wise when she was talking about informing one´s partner on one´s sexual orientation, because, after all, he/she is the person who you are gonna share (or have already shared) lots of special moments. If you find yourself attracted to people outside the relationship, and want to pursue them, you should speak with sincerity to your partner about your intentions. As many people say, as long as you all know about it and allow it, it should be all right.

Well,now, from the point of view of a Sociology student, I must say that I believe society itself to be an ever-changing and mutable entity. It is always evolving and never really stops (until the destruction of civilization itself). Views about homosexuality and/or bisexuality have been changing during all mankind´s history, because it has been present in it as long as humans themselves. It has been seen as a natural part of life, as something to be experimented upon, as something to be ignored, as a sin, as a mental disorder, and, as of recently , as a natural attitude that is no different from the usual behaviour. Society nowadays is heteronormative (this means, heterosexuality is seen as the prmary or "default" orientation by most people). However, most scientists and social critics think that bisexuality will probably replace heterosexuality as the primary orientation in three genreations onwards (that´s it, at the end of this century as nearest, folks). So I wouldn´t say that people being fazed or irritated about bisexuality or homosexuality is something to be worried about, just simply a sad aspect of society that will surely dissapear in a few years on, leaving room for new attitudes and mannerisms.

[tenni]

Nader
What you write about society's changing has validity. Where I tend to become unclear is your point about how society changes. If bisexuals remain quiet and adhere to hetero perspectives, will society become bisexual within a few decades? I have my doubts.

Society changes when there is an open examination after pressure has been put upon the society to change. This is apparent when you examine how society has changed over the past one hundred years in its attitude towards women (roles etc.) and other changes ie homosexuality

In the instance of a tendency for female partners in a male/female relationship tending to be more resistent to their male partners taking on same sex relationships, how will change happen without pressure to re examine the perspective. Some bisexuals may remain in a male/female relationship without wanting to explore same sex relationships. As a sociology student maybe you would like to take on a study of changing attitudes towards sexuality in males in western societies as they mature? There may be definite trends needing studying.

[rissababynta]

Nader
What you write about society's changing has validity. Where I tend to become unclear is your point about how society changes. If bisexuals remain quiet and adhere to hetero perspectives, will society become bisexual within a few decades? I have my doubts.

Society changes when there is an open examination after pressure has been put upon the society to change. This is apparent when you examine how society has changed over the past one hundred years in its attitude towards women (roles etc.) and other changes ie homosexuality

In the instance of a tendency for female partners in a male/female relationship tending to be more resistent to their male partners taking on same sex relationships, how will change happen without pressure to re examine the perspective. Some bisexuals may remain in a male/female relationship without wanting to explore same sex relationships. As a sociology student maybe you would like to take on a study of changing attitudes towards sexuality in males in western societies as they mature? There may be definite trends needing studying.

It seems to me that no matter how many people express their opinion, you just aren't happy until you hear that one you want...

[mikey3000]

It's called an educated debate, instead of taking one's opinion at shear face value.

[Long Duck Dong]

so we want to change the wording to match a lifestyle....

sexual monogamy.....not monogamy but sexual monogamy refers to two people in a exclusive sexual relationship... it can not apply to a person that is having more than one partner of any gender....

could you imagine saying to people, * oh I am a bisexual monogamous with a same sex partner and a opposite sex partner, I am monogamous because I have only one partner of each gender...*

they would say * monogamy means one person only...*

and you would say, * yes it does, but this is bisexual monogamy so it applies to one person of each gender *

and they could say, * but how many partners do you sleep with in truth *

and you would say * oh about 4-5 a year *

and they would say * so how can you be a bisexual monogamous *?

and you would say * its bisexual logic and wording.... *


do a poll in the site, and see other many bisexuals have 2 partners only one of each gender....and no more and how many of them id as polygamous

cos the correct term is not bisexual monogamous, that would only apply a bisexual that has one partner of either gender ......


but then again, people do use the same type of * logical * thinking to define cheating.....:tong:

[rissababynta]

It's called an educated debate, instead of taking one's opinion at shear face value.

No, it's called saying the same shit over and over again and not listening to what anyone else has to say. How many times does a person have to say that people are saying that bisexuals must only be with one person before they begin to realize that no one is actually saying any of that. How many times do people have to say "as long as no one's being lied to, then it's all good" before they can be recognized as being "tolerant"

[mikey3000]

And I still say that the judgement and name calling was totally unnecessary.

I seem to remember just last week a post you brought up when someone totally unknown to you made a derogatory comment about you and ice cream. And I remember how hurt you were about that. Isn't that right? A judgement was made against you and you were livid. I think it's kind of the same thing. Of course you'll disagree saying you were't hurting one, but one can aregue that he felt you were hurting yourself, and decided to judge you for it.

Bottom line is that name calling hurts. No matter who is on the recieving end, and no matter for what reason.

[Long Duck Dong]

And I still say that the judgement and name calling was totally unnecessary.

I seem to remember just last week a post you brought up when someone totally unknown to you made a derogatory comment about you and ice cream. And I remember how hurt you were about that. Isn't that right? A judgement was made against you and you were livid. I think it's kind of the same thing. Of course you'll disagree saying you were't hurting one, but one can aregue that he felt you were hurting yourself, and decided to judge you for it.

Bottom line is that name calling hurts. No matter who is on the recieving end, and no matter for what reason.

so judgement is uncalled for.... but its ok to judge people for expressing a dislike of dishonesty in relationships and a lack of respect for partners..... and judge people for not ignoring unfaithfulness in relationships, and giving advice on how to continue unfaithfulness.....????

interesting..... very interesting..... do you always change the rules you expect others to play by, and not play by the same rules yourself

[rissababynta]

And I still say that the judgement and name calling was totally unnecessary.

I seem to remember just last week a post you brought up when someone totally unknown to you made a derogatory comment about you and ice cream. And I remember how hurt you were about that. Isn't that right? A judgement was made against you and you were livid. I think it's kind of the same thing. Of course you'll disagree saying you were't hurting one, but one can aregue that he felt you were hurting yourself, and decided to judge you for it.

Bottom line is that name calling hurts. No matter who is on the recieving end, and no matter for what reason.

Yes, seeing me with one ice cream and letting everyone around him know that that is why I'm a fat ass when I don't normally eat ice cream is the same exact thing as someone calling someone else a cheater when they..hmm...let's see...CHEAT.

In order for my situation to be the same, I would have to have obviously been eating ice cream at that place all the time to prove that I'm a pig that can't control myself, then asked people advice about how I should go about losing weight. Cause that's exactly what people do here. They act like assholes (THAT'S name calling...get it right) then come on here and say things like "oh i love so and so and I'd never want to divorce so and so but I still like fucking around with this one on the side and now I don't know what to do please help me." uh DUH. If I sat around cheating on my husband all the time then went complaining about how I don't know what to do about my situation anymore, I would expect my friends to tell me to stop being a cheater and be honest. I'd expect NOTHING LESS.

I guess women shouldn't be women anymore, and men shouldn't be men. Hell since we are at it let's all address each other with a grunt since names are now no longer allowed when referring to another being.

[mikey3000]

Why not dude. Everyone else is riding the judgement train. Might as well join in. It seems the only game played here, as long as everyone hurts evenly.

Yes, you who sees your partner every two years has every right to judge a man who loves and looks after his invalid wife, day in and day out for the rest of their lives. Absolutely. You just keep holding on to you values pal. You alone will convince the whole world what angels bisexuals really are. Good luck with that. Bam!!!

[rissababynta]

As everyone hurts evenly? Funny coming from the person arguing against those saying that hurting someone is bad...

[Long Duck Dong]

Why not dude. Everyone else is riding the judgement train. Might as well join in. It seems the only game played here, as long as everyone hurts evenly.

Yes, you who sees your partner every two years has every right to judge a man who loves and looks after his invalid wife, day in and day out for the rest of their lives. Absolutely. You just keep holding on to you values pal. You alone will convince the whole world what angels bisexuals really are. Good luck with that. Bam!!!

learn about me..... before you make assumptions..... I have only known my partner for close to 2 years.... we met recently for 3 months, its 2 years before we will see each other again

I care give for a elderly man and have for about 12 years.... it has meant that I have had to give up a large deal of my life.... hence I can not travel to the us to see my partner....something that hurts greatly..... but shit happens....

my values are the same values I have for my partner, love, loyalty respect and honesty.... something that is not bisexual exclusive.... or I bloody hope not....

as for angels ??? we are not angels.... we are humans, imperfect, fallible and able to make mistakes and fuck up at times..... but we are also the only ones that can help or assist our fellow humans....

so you have assumed wrong about me.... and I am cool with that.... cos I am not gonna change and become a person that supports others to be dishonest, unfaithful and disrespect of the people they love....in the name of sex.......

let me be judged accordingly......for I plead guilty to the crime of having standards that I will not break ...

[rissababynta]

learn about me..... before you make assumptions..... I have only known my partner for close to 2 years.... we met recently for 3 months, its 2 years before we will see each other again

I care give for a elderly man and have for about 12 years.... it has meant that I have had to give up a large deal of my life.... hence I can not travel to the us to see my partner....something that hurts greatly..... but shit happens....

my values are the same values I have for my partner, love, loyalty respect and honesty.... something that is not bisexual exclusive.... or I bloody hope not....

as for angels ??? we are not angels.... we are humans, imperfect, fallible and able to make mistakes and fuck up at times..... but we are also the only ones that can help or assist our fellow humans....

so you have assumed wrong about me.... and I am cool with that.... cos I am not gonna change and become a person that supports others to be dishonest, unfaithful and disrespect of the people they love....in the name of sex.......

let me be judged accordingly......for I plead guilty to the crime of having standards that I will not break ...

I throw the book at you!

[mikey3000]

learn about me..... before you make assumptions..... I have only known my partner for close to 2 years.... we met recently for 3 months, its 2 years before we will see each other again

I care give for a elderly man and have for about 12 years.... it has meant that I have had to give up a large deal of my life.... hence I can not travel to the us to see my partner....something that hurts greatly..... but shit happens....

my values are the same values I have for my partner, love, loyalty respect and honesty.... something that is not bisexual exclusive.... or I bloody hope not....

as for angels ??? we are not angels.... we are humans, imperfect, fallible and able to make mistakes and fuck up at times..... but we are also the only ones that can help or assist our fellow humans....

so you have assumed wrong about me.... and I am cool with that.... cos I am not gonna change and become a person that supports others to be dishonest, unfaithful and disrespect of the people they love....in the name of sex.......

let me be judged accordingly......for I plead guilty to the crime of having standards that I will not break ...

Yea, we all have shit in our lives we're dealing with, and I so understand that.

Cause, see, not only am I dealing with a wife who has cancer, my mom, who lives with us due to a stroke, now has cancer too, both diagnosed within the last three months. And I have to care for my two little daughters too. And somehow still function in my full time job. Believe me when I say a day doesn't go by when I don't think of running. There is olny so much I can take too. That's how I can so understand the cheating thing. I wish I had somewhere and someone I can escape to, someone just for me, someone with whom our conversation didn't revolve around oncologists, chemo, radiation, wig shopping 24/7/365. Some one who will love me just for me. But I won't. I have never snuck around. I'm not saying that I never will, just that right now I won't. Even though I do have permission, she doesn't want to know all the details. Will that make me a cheat? Maybe, but what ever works for my situation, and my marriage will be my choice.

But you can be sure of one thing. I won't be explaining myself to anyone here too soon. So there, we learned something about eachother today. My stance still hasn't changed, cause you never know what someone is going through and why he/she made the decisions they did. I just learned even more reasons why not to judge a total stranger. Thanks everyone.

[csrakate]

In the instance of a tendency for female partners in a male/female relationship tending to be more resistent to their male partners taking on same sex relationships, how will change happen without pressure to re examine the perspective. Some bisexuals may remain in a male/female relationship without wanting to explore same sex relationships. As a sociology student maybe you would like to take on a study of changing attitudes towards sexuality in males in western societies as they mature? There may be definite trends needing studying.

So as I see it, you are saying it's the evil straight wife that keeps the bisexual male from exploring his true sexuality. Pressure HER into changing and life will be peachy keen......Perhaps she doesn't want to change and sharing her husband with ANYONE, male or female, wasn't something she signed on for when she agreed to marry him....oh...but I forgot... if we change the definition of monogamy, it won't matter....you can have one of each.

You have to be realistic here....it isn't always the wife that causes the issue nor does she keep the husband from exploring. My spouse has chosen, on his own, to remain monogamous and while I have become far more understanding of his sexuality over time and have offered for him to explore, it is HIS decision not to....NOT MINE! Many bisexual spouses take their vows for what they are and have decided to remain committed to one person....so do not presume that the blame is always with the female spouse.

[mikey3000]

For the most part:

Wife: "I think I'm BIsexual." = Husband: "cool".
Husband: "I think I'm bisexual." = Wife: "Ewww, you sick fuck!!! I want a divorce."

But I hope that is slowly changing.

[tenni]

csrakate
I scanned your profile and yes you are the straight wife who has come here to gain an understanding about your bisexual husband. Why do you use the word "evil" to describe yourself as the straight wife? (satire maybe ;)? A better word might be confused or concerned. After all why did you come to this site if not to gain a better understanding about something that you might have benefited to have known better before marrying a bisexual man. Yes, it is completely understandable that the straight wife would not want to change. She is the hetero and has been raised to believe that monogomy means one man and one woman being sexually faithful to each other. No male with her husband or that is cheating. Twenty some odd years ago, very little was known about bisexuality and not a hell of a lot more is known today beyond that knowledge. Few studies are done on bisexuality. Bisexuals need to expand their views away from heterosexual views..or maybe not. At least we should discuss it without condemning each other for digressing away from straight female perspective about male bisexuality.

Your husband has chosen not to explore the other side of his sexuality and you refer to this as honouring his vows. If you had understood bisexuality better before marriage and told him that he could also be sexually with a man before marriage, might the vows have been different? He informed you about his bisexuality before you married him and entered into a marriage that denies half of who he is. That is his choice and I have no idea if he is lying to you, feeling pressure to conform or being celebate as far as male relationships out of a feeling of duty or honouring your hetero ness. All are possibilities. What a shame that this was not clearer to both of you before the vows were made?

I'm just exploring my thoughts here as well though. I do not mean to be judgemental but it just doesn't make sense to me...this straight monogomy being imposed on bisexuals by straights. There may be a better way ...or not.

[tenni]

I've just thought about the knowledge that was known about bisexuality thirty years ago. I was in a relationship with a woman twenty years ago. I had the urge to be with a man. At that point, I was trying to decide if I was straight or gay. I had never heard about bisexuality 29 years ago when you married! Boy, you hubby was so much more aware to know the word "bisexual"then. Or did he say "queer"?..lol

[roy m cox]

"damnit" all i want is two people at the same time or four er um i cant help my self i just love both is it so hard to under stand :bibounce::tong:

im an open guy i want 2 or more mates :bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

I'm just exploring my thoughts here as well though. I do not mean to be judgemental but it just doesn't make sense to me...this straight monogomy being imposed on bisexuals by straights. There may be a better way ...or not.

this straight monogamy being imposed on bisexuals by straights ????

that single statement tells me more about your opinion than anything you have written.....

monogamy is not a straight exclusive aspect of relationships, it can be a aspect of ANY relationship...... regardless of sexuality

monogamy is a type of union... and a lot of it can be caused by people NOT being honest before they get married or into a relationship....
there are people that do have the view point that their relationship is one on one, and thats not unrealistic.... its reasonable to think that your partner is your partner, not everybodies partner.....

there is a small but growing trend to have FwB ( friends with benefits ) rather than marriage / relationships, cos some people do not have their style cramped, some people do not have the time to put into a relationship / marriage / some people like the free and easy lifestyle, and some people are just not able to handle marriage / relationships and some people just do not wanna deal with the issues of marriage and relationships

as for the imposed monogamy.....

look at it from this point of view.... there are 3 types of relationships

1 ) you tell the person BEFORE you get in a relationship / marriage about your sexuality and they then have the decision to stay or go

2 ) you tell the person after you get in a relationship / marriage about your sexuality and they then have the decision to stay or divorce your ass

3 ) you never tell the person at all, before or after you get in the relationship....

the first one is the best policy if possible, cos you give the other person the right to make a informed decision about things, before they commit..... tho I accept it can not always be done....

cos the moment you get into the relationship / marriage, you have made a commitment to your partner and they have every right to think that you are committed to them alone......and if you suddenly turn around and say to them that you have needs they can not fulfill, they have every right to say * OH HELL NO *...

and nowhere does it say that it is only straights that do that to bi's.....
that statement of yours was way too narrow and biased.....

[tenni]

Long Dong
I recalled that the term "bisexual" is actually considered by some sexual theorists as a :catch all" term. Research was done and a hypothesis formulated that there were about nine categories of bisexuality. I didn't completely agree with the researcher but thought that it was a start. One categories was referred to as "situtational bisexuality" such as within prisons. The person has same sex relationship(s) while in situations where opposite sex relationships are difficult. Once they are out of that situation then they never enter into same sex relationships. I found this a bit of stretch. I can understand how people like yourself may find my referring to a bisexual monogomy as difficult because it doesn't fit your concept of straight interpretation of monogomy. Yes, it is a form of polyamour but a restrictive one and not fuck buddy scenario(which by the way has a variety of interpretations as well but rather unrelated to the thread topic)

Yes, it is best if a person knows that they are bisexual before they enter a marriage with the opposite sex. Yes, the best route is to discuss your bisexuality with your potential opposite sex person. It is also best if there were a greater understanding and tolerance of bisexuals by opposite sex partners who are completely straight. Is that true today? No, I don't think that it is. If you are a "real" bisexual, I find your thoughts rather negative towards being more open minded to discuss how we can co exist with straight partners. You seem to wish to argue a straight interpretation and not be open to examining a more fluid understanding about how bisexual men(as is the more common case) find it difficult to get their opposite sex partners to be more tolerant of their bisexuality. Some bisexuals may be able to adhere to a straight monogomy all of their life while others find it more difficult. Are they the same type of bisexual? Probably not but I don't have the research to argue that point.

[rissababynta]

As I said before, not happy until you find the opinion you want...

[csrakate]

Tenni,
If the only way you wish to co-exist with a straight female partner is to be allowed the "right" to have a male lover, then why get married at all? You obviously have no interest in committing yourself to one person, so why bother...and further..why bother re-writing the rules. You are a NON-monogamous person...plain and simple.....so don't get married and by all means, don't expect your female partner (and God help her if she is straight) to allow you the freedom to "explore" as you will.

Your assertion that bisexuals will never truly be happy unless they are having sex with both genders is very wrong. I'm not sure we're talking bisexuality as much as we're talking about impulse control....if you can't keep it in your pants, don't claim to want monogamy....whatever definition you may choose. And what's to stop you from continuing to re-write your rules....will you someday not be satisfied with only ONE partner from each gender???

As for my own situation, my husband told me that he was bisexual...not because he wanted me to allow him to have same gender sex, but because he wanted me to accept him for who he truly is and he didn't want to spend the rest of his life hiding the fact that same gender sex is very arousing to him. His bisexuality is part of who he is...but it does not DEFINE him. He loves me, he is committed to me and monogamy with me was his choice that he made. Maybe the two of us will explore together one day...who knows....but that will be a choice that we make TOGETHER...as a couple.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Long Dong
I recalled that the term "bisexual" is actually considered by some sexual theorists as a :catch all" term. Research was done and a hypothesis formulated that there were about nine categories of bisexuality. I didn't completely agree with the researcher but thought that it was a start. One categories was referred to as "situtational bisexuality" such as within prisons. The person has same sex relationship(s) while in situations where opposite sex relationships are difficult. Once they are out of that situation then they never enter into same sex relationships. I found this a bit of stretch. I can understand how people like yourself may find my referring to a bisexual monogomy as difficult because it doesn't fit your concept of straight interpretation of monogomy. Yes, it is a form of polyamour but a restrictive one and not fuck buddy scenario(which by the way has a variety of interpretations as well but rather unrelated to the thread topic)

Yes, it is best if a person knows that they are bisexual before they enter a marriage with the opposite sex. Yes, the best route is to discuss your bisexuality with your potential opposite sex person. It is also best if there were a greater understanding and tolerance of bisexuals by opposite sex partners who are completely straight. Is that true today? No, I don't think that it is. If you are a "real" bisexual, I find your thoughts rather negative towards being more open minded to discuss how we can co exist with straight partners. You seem to wish to argue a straight interpretation and not be open to examining a more fluid understanding about how bisexual men(as is the more common case) find it difficult to get their opposite sex partners to be more tolerant of their bisexuality. Some bisexuals may be able to adhere to a straight monogomy all of their life while others find it more difficult. Are they the same type of bisexual? Probably not but I don't have the research to argue that point.

Tolerance, its funny how you think that word would open doors for all straight women to love their closeted bisexual men. Tolerance means that you forge no ill will toward something that is different. You don't beat the shit out of it, you don't set it on fire, you don't discriminate basic rights to a person that is different. Doesn't mean you have to love, marry or fuck them.

You can't force anyone to like anything they don't want to. I am allergic to pumpkins and perfumes, I find them utterly disgusting and repulsive. No matter how much someone was to tell me how good they smell or taste I will not eat or wear them, nor to I try to have a law or selfish understanding imposed just to suit my need to not have them exist. Preference is individual to a person. And simply telling someone how wonderful bisexual men or women can be and how loving and whatever won't necessarily change their opinion or perception. Surprisingly, there are many straight women who desire a relationship with bisexual men. That is something they acquired themselves through their own development and not because someone told them.

A lot of straight people are turned off by all things bisexual be it same sex bisexuality or opposite bisexuality. Its one of the common qualities of being straight.

Gov't has already defined its version of marriage and while it will change to include same sex marriage eventually, it will never change to include more than two people. If you try to force the gov't to do so. Then you run the risk of the gov't simply dissolving its recognition of marriage and the benefits and protections supplied therefor.

Now, How a marriage/relationship is defined is up to the individual couple/triad/moresomes. That is a freedom that has always existed. Some Mormon sects have been practicing it for I dunno how long. The gov't legally recognizes the first marriage and the rest are non-existant.
There are open marriages/relationships. Some happen when the couple has been together for a long time they choose to redefine what their marriage is to be for them. So yes sexual needs can change after time. But the responsibility of the partner who's needs have changed is to MAKE THE OTHER PARTNER AWARE and INVOLVED in the decisions that change the dynamic. There is nothing that will ever take away that duty and make it ok to deceive a person who has committed to you.

I am sure plenty of straight women are aware of male bisexuality, broke back mountain came out a long time ago, Oprah did a show about men on the Down Low. Alot of people with cable can watch the L-Word or Queer as Folk or the Logo channel. Bisexuality in men has been documented as far back as Roman times. So its really not a new concept. You can't force someone to like or enjoy something that they don't want to. No matter how much you wish that person would or how hard to try to make them. An individual is still left with their basic human right... Choice....

There doesn't need to be a new definition. Just because we are bisexuals we don't have to always have one of each at the same time and Just because we are bisexuals, doesn't mean we get to be an irresponsible partner in a relationship.

In all honesty I find your arguments redundant. You are arguing something people already have the right to do, define their own relationships. Both partners participating in the choices.
and if one partner fails to uphold their duties in the relationships, say like honesty, then when the other partner does find out, they have the right to leave or condone.
Once someone cheats, then the marriage/relationship is no longer a marriage/relationship at that moment, it becomes a prison holding the other partner in compliance with deception. Which is just as bad, if not as worse, than the self imposed mental prison of the offending party. The Truth Shall Set You Free.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Yea, we all have shit in our lives we're dealing with, and I so understand that.

Cause, see, not only am I dealing with a wife who has cancer, my mom, who lives with us due to a stroke, now has cancer too, both diagnosed within the last three months. And I have to care for my two little daughters too. And somehow still function in my full time job. Believe me when I say a day doesn't go by when I don't think of running. There is olny so much I can take too. That's how I can so understand the cheating thing. I wish I had somewhere and someone I can escape to, someone just for me, someone with whom our conversation didn't revolve around oncologists, chemo, radiation, wig shopping 24/7/365. Some one who will love me just for me. But I won't. I have never snuck around. I'm not saying that I never will, just that right now I won't. Even though I do have permission, she doesn't want to know all the details. Will that make me a cheat? Maybe, but what ever works for my situation, and my marriage will be my choice.

But you can be sure of one thing. I won't be explaining myself to anyone here too soon. So there, we learned something about eachother today. My stance still hasn't changed, cause you never know what someone is going through and why he/she made the decisions they did. I just learned even more reasons why not to judge a total stranger. Thanks everyone.


In my honest opinion, this is just about the most selfish and hateful thing I have ever seen someone write about their loved ones. Specially anyone suffering from cancer.

After I read this, a mental image came to me.. A swirling circle of fear, sickness, and sadness encompassing your wife, mother, and daughters.

and you on the outside stamping your foot going "What about me! When's its going to be all about me!"

You said
someone just for meand
Some one who will love me just for me.

I thought that was your wife, the one you said accepts you as you are as a bisexual man.

But now after reading that, I have to question...Who loves who more in your relationship.

[rissababynta]

Littleray I'm allergic to perfume and cologne too!

[Nadir]

I think that the conversation drastically took an entirely different turn...:S I was going to say something in responde to one comment, but I dont know it it´s too late...

[csrakate]

I think that the conversation drastically took an entirely different turn...:S I was going to say something in responde to one comment, but I dont know it it´s too late...

Nadir, if you have a particular comment you wish to address, simply click the quote button at the bottom of the comment and it will prompt you to write a response to that particular quote. Hope this helps.

[mikey3000]

Littleray,

I'm guessing that you don't know what it's like to see your beloved high school sweetheart and spouse suffer day in and day out, to have to take her for walks, to sit with her for hours on end in chemo and to hold her hand when the doctor gives more bad news, to sit in the parking lot of the wig shop and just let her cry in your lap, to help her shower, to support her when she wants to try and go back to work, to spend every waking moment of every day with her because all her girlfriends suddenly stopped inviting her out and family doesn't drop by anymore, to be ready with the clippers and shave her head because the daily loss of her beautiful long brown hair is breaking her heart daily, to assist two little girls who are watching their mommy get sicker and sicker and try to get grief councelling for them, and to do my best to help with their homework and their emotional well being cause their grades are slipping, to take your lover out to dinner to try and take her mind off the cancer for just one night (because she wants to go) only to watch her strugle and have to leave half way through the meal, to lie to her face about cured cases I've read on the internet just to keep her spirits positive and to give her hope when the doctors won't, and also never shed a single tear in front of anyone because I am their rock. I sincerely hope you or anyone else here never goes through this.

But guess what, I'm not a rock. I am only human too. I have to look after me too, to nurture me, to replenish my soul so that I can carry on and do all these things for her. If I don't get a break once in a while I will go insane.

This is my interpretation of monogamy.

And you see fit to question my love for her.

[rissababynta]

Littleray,

I'm guessing that you don't know what it's like to see your beloved high school sweetheart and spouse suffer day in and day out, to have to take her for walks, to sit with her for hours on end in chemo and to hold her hand when the doctor gives more bad news, to sit in the parking lot of the wig shop and just let her cry in your lap, to help her shower, to support her when she wants to try and go back to work, to spend every waking moment of every day with her because all her girlfriends suddenly stopped inviting her out and family doesn't drop by anymore, to be ready with the clippers and shave her head because the daily loss of her beautiful long brown hair is breaking her heart daily, to assist two little girls who are watching their mommy get sicker and sicker and try to get grief councelling for them, and to do my best to help with their homework and their emotional well being cause their grades are slipping, to take your lover out to dinner to try and take her mind off the cancer for just one night (because she wants to go) only to watch her strugle and have to leave half way through the meal, to lie to her face about cured cases I've read on the internet just to keep her spirits positive and to give her hope when the doctors won't, and also never shed a single tear in front of anyone because I am their rock. I sincerely hope you or anyone else here never goes through this.

But guess what, I'm not a rock. I am only human too. I have to look after me too, to nurture me, to replenish my soul so that I can carry on and do all these things for her. If I don't get a break once in a while I will go insane.

This is my interpretation of monogamy.

And you see fit to question my love for her.

So, you're break in order for you to go on is to not go sit at a park and take a breather or something to that effect, but to stick your dick in someone?

Well, if you have the go ahead then, whatever. However, I question if she gave you the go ahead because she genuinely doesn't mind or because she just feels guilty.

[tenni]

"Your assertion that bisexuals will never truly be happy unless they are having sex with both genders is very wrong."

Csrakate
Um, I think that you are imposing an opinion on me? As of my last post, I'm reminding the readers that there are several varied forms of bisexuality. Some bisexuals, gays and straights will buy into traditional interpretation of monogomy that comes out of a hetero Christian perspective. They will be happy with it while others in traditional hetero Christian monogomy will find something missing. They will still love their mate and may feel incomplete without expressing themselves with same sex relationships. It will not be for all and in particular not for many straight women in a relationship with a bisexual man.(it seems as evidenced by the mainly female posters here who object to broadening and developing a concept for bisexuals to be in a form of monogomy that includes both genders)

Another fascinating assumption made by some ladies here is that I am married...lol (is that being judgemental or what?)

"Maybe the two of us will explore together one day...who knows....but that will be a choice that we make TOGETHER...as a couple."

Maybe, you as a couple will explore having your husband with another man. Why is it necessary for you to be part of your husband's sexual experience with a man?

[rissababynta]

[QUOTE=tenni;144858it seems as evidenced by the mainly female posters here who object to broadening and developing a concept for bisexuals to be in a form of monogomy that includes both genders[/QUOTE]

tenni, you don't pay attention much. which women here has opposed this? As far as I've seen, people have either been correcting your term for monogomy but still believing in the same basic concept, or they have been saying that it is not ok as long as it does not involve cheating. Please show me where someone here has said that what you have proposed, which is actually nothing new, is wrong or undoable.

[csrakate]

"Your assertion that bisexuals will never truly be happy unless they are having sex with both genders is very wrong."

Csrakate
Um, I think that you are imposing an opinion on me? As of my last post, I'm reminding the readers that there are several varied forms of bisexuality. Some bisexuals, gays and straights will buy into traditional interpretation of monogomy that comes out of a hetero Christian perspective. They will be happy with it while others in traditional hetero Christian monogomy will find something missing. They will still love their mate and may feel incomplete without expressing themselves with same sex relationships. It will not be for all and in particular not for many straight women in a relationship with a bisexual man.(it seems as evidenced by the mainly female posters here who object to broadening and developing a concept for bisexuals to be in a form of monogomy that includes both genders)

Another fascinating assumption made by some ladies here is that I am married...lol (is that being judgemental or what?)

"Maybe the two of us will explore together one day...who knows....but that will be a choice that we make TOGETHER...as a couple."

Maybe, you as a couple will explore having your husband with another man. Why is it necessary for you to be part of your husband's sexual experience with a man?

Believe me...I have never assumed you were married...you hardly sound like a man who has experienced the love and affection of a woman that was strong enough to understand that it's possible to be both bisexual AND committed to a woman.

As for my exploring my husband's sexuality, I have already stated that he does not want to explore it alone....that he wants me to be a part of it....that's what many couples do, tenni...they explore things TOGETHER! Sorry if you can't wrap your mind around that concept. If a couple wants to open things up and play individually, then more power to them...I have no judgment for the couples who choose to live this way...as long as no one is getting hurt...then go for it. That is their right..but it is one that they need to make as a couple...and not because someone is feeling pressured to adhere to the other's sexual urges.

I'm not asking to you applaud my lifestyle, but I will not allow you to put it down or denigrate the choices that myself and my husband have made. Each couple has to decide what works best for their marriage and if they can't work together and do things that are mutually satisfying and agreeable to both parties, then they have no business being married. It's called open and honest communication....and it has worked for us for 29 years.

[rissababynta]

29 years? Wow, you got married when my husband was born!

LOL just kidding. Seriously though, I didn't know you were married that long. Congratulations on having such a strong and happy relationship for so long.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Littleray,

I'm guessing that you don't know what it's like to see your beloved high school sweetheart and spouse suffer day in and day out, to have to take her for walks, to sit with her for hours on end in chemo and to hold her hand when the doctor gives more bad news, to sit in the parking lot of the wig shop and just let her cry in your lap, to help her shower, to support her when she wants to try and go back to work, to spend every waking moment of every day with her because all her girlfriends suddenly stopped inviting her out and family doesn't drop by anymore, to be ready with the clippers and shave her head because the daily loss of her beautiful long brown hair is breaking her heart daily, to assist two little girls who are watching their mommy get sicker and sicker and try to get grief councelling for them, and to do my best to help with their homework and their emotional well being cause their grades are slipping, to take your lover out to dinner to try and take her mind off the cancer for just one night (because she wants to go) only to watch her strugle and have to leave half way through the meal, to lie to her face about cured cases I've read on the internet just to keep her spirits positive and to give her hope when the doctors won't, and also never shed a single tear in front of anyone because I am their rock. I sincerely hope you or anyone else here never goes through this.

But guess what, I'm not a rock. I am only human too. I have to look after me too, to nurture me, to replenish my soul so that I can carry on and do all these things for her. If I don't get a break once in a while I will go insane.

This is my interpretation of monogamy.

And you see fit to question my love for her.



While I will agree the love of my life doesn't have cancer and so I don't know that exact pain. Your issue is stress.

I was basically stating my opinion of how appalled I was that your wife has cancer diagnosis for less then three months and you are saying not a day goes by that you don't think about running.

You said in another post that you had an "Affair" (your word) with a man for 3 years and your wife supported you when it had to end.

So she can support you for 3 years, but 3 months of her needing it, its just too much..

Now She has her life on the line and you are worried about the next penis to get your mouth around. Penis does not cure stress... Counseling will, support groups will.

I have lost many loved ones to cancer. My own grandparents, 5 aunts and uncles, my father in law, my husband grandparents, I was holding my husband's grandfather's hand as he died. My mother in law got diagnosed with cancer with in a few months of my father in law passing away. She is partially paralyzed from a stroke. You think that your stress is so unbearable. I have migraines and I have 3 hernias in my chest wall and abdomen that cause me daily pain. Yet I take care of my husband my 4 children, raised my sister so I was technically raising 5 (All are A-B students, and also taking care of my Mother in law, with her showers, and food shopping and dressing and laundry on top of the 12 loads I already do weekly. Taking care of her house and my house. My kids saw their grandfather's hair fall out and sickness and vomiting. And they were very empathetic and compassionate. I know cancer very well, It has lived in things I held dear and it has died and my hand as my love ones passed.

When you have stress, you get counseling, you bind to your family even stronger. You don't take any chance you can get to be someone else's lover. Yes you take care of yourself, like Rissa said, you go for walks and other brain relaxing things. You do things that nurture your spirit. But not what takes your mind and heart away from those that are suffering.

I had stress, I never cheated.

[tenni]

"You can't force anyone to like anything they don't want to. "

littlerayofsunshine
True. Can we as bisexuals (not sure you are one?) not discuss and accept that some bisexuals wish to be in a relationship with both a man and a woman? They may not want them in the same bed or maybe yes. They may see this as monogomy as there is only one of each gender. No harams...lol Others will stay in a relationship with same sex or opposite sex. Others will be more polygomous with mixed genders and multi partners of each gender.

I agree that both partners or should I print all three partners have the right to discuss what the relationship would be. Again, all three don't need to sit down to discuss it though..or maybe they might. Lots of approaches to explore.

However, straight women are far less open to this than straight men. Why is that? I have my view. What is your view?

[mikey3000]

While I will agree the love of my life doesn't have cancer and so I don't know that exact pain. Your issue is stress.

I was basically stating my opinion of how appalled I was that your wife has cancer diagnosis for less then three months and you are saying not a day goes by that you don't think about running.

You said in another post that you had an "Affair" (your word) with a man for 3 years and your wife supported you when it had to end.

So she can support you for 3 years, but 3 months of her needing it, its just too much..

Now She has her life on the line and you are worried about the next penis to get your mouth around. Penis does not cure stress... Counseling will, support groups will.

I have lost many loved ones to cancer. My own grandparents, 5 aunts and uncles, my father in law, my husband grandparents, I was holding my husband's grandfather's hand as he died. My mother in law got diagnosed with cancer with in a few months of my father in law passing away. She is partially paralyzed from a stroke. You think that your stress is so unbearable. I have migraines and I have 3 hernias in my chest wall and abdomen that cause me daily pain. Yet I take care of my husband my 4 children, raised my sister so I was technically raising 5 (All are A-B students, and also taking care of my Mother in law, with her showers, and food shopping and dressing and laundry on top of the 12 loads I already do weekly. Taking care of her house and my house. My kids saw their grandfather's hair fall out and sickness and vomiting. And they were very empathetic and compassionate. I know cancer very well, It has lived in things I held dear and it has died and my hand as my love ones passed.

When you have stress, you get counseling, you bind to your family even stronger. You don't take any chance you can get to be someone else's lover. Yes you take care of yourself, like Rissa said, you go for walks and other brain relaxing things. You do things that nurture your spirit. But not what takes your mind and heart away from those that are suffering.

I had stress, I never cheated.

Goodie for you. You must be an angel.

Why don't you have a profile? So we all can see what you'd like us to think you're like?

Now I'm not here to get into a pissing match with you and compare illnesses. Farthest thought from my mind.

And, by the way, some people seek out others not just for sex, but companionship too. Where did I say anywhere that I'm exclusively looking for cock? You and what's her name assume that all I want is a fuck. Farthest thing from it. Obviously you haven't been reading what has actually said by me or buy any other man for that matter, just concerned about who roars the loudest. Bravo. You win. The only opinions that count around here are the very vocal women's, Man, if only one thing, this thread has surly proven why some guys cheat or pack up and run from their women. And all the power too them. You can scream, "STRONG WOMAN!" all you two want. All the more reason for some guys to turn 100% gay. I have never been more supportive of gay men's rights to marry then I have in the past few days.

[littlerayofsunshine]

"You can't force anyone to like anything they don't want to. "

littlerayofsunshine
True. Can we as bisexuals (not sure you are one?) not discuss and accept that some bisexuals wish to be in a relationship with both a man and a woman? They may not want them in the same bed or maybe yes. They may see this as monogomy as there is only one of each gender. No harams...lol Others will stay in a relationship with same sex or opposite sex. Others will be more polygomous with mixed genders and multi partners of each gender.

I agree that both partners or should I print all three partners have the right to discuss what the relationship would be. Again, all three don't need to sit down to discuss it though..or maybe they might. Lots of approaches to explore.

However, straight women are far less open to this than straight men. Why is that? I have my view. What is your view?

Maybe because for many years men dominated the production of pornography and were the main buyers of it. So female/female or ffm pornography made them more open to the thought of two women together. Doesn't mean that men who enjoy seeing two women together, want their own woman to be with another woman. There are women here who's spouse knows they have female desires but don't want the women acting on it, and some of the women are just appreciative that their husbands are understanding of the desire and discussions there of and don't need the sex.

Straight women on the other hand, eventually grew as porn consumers, but never felt the need to consume bi-male pornography or woman on woman pornography. Cause it doesn't float their boats.

[tenni]

"that's what many couples do, tenni...they explore things TOGETHER! Sorry if you can't wrap your mind around that concept."

That is probably hitting on the crux of the conflict to accepting that coupledom may not be best for some bisexuals...tripledom may be. Women nest and some women find it difficult to let their men have their own life outside of work. You may or may not be one. I won't judge you except to write that is why you feel rigid about reinventing bisexual monogomy to be more open. But that "coupledom" is a side topic to a more open interpretation for bisexuals on how to relate to same sex and opposite sex relationships.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Goodie for you. You must be an angel.

Why don't you have a profile? So we all can see what you'd like us to think you're like?

Now I'm not here to get into a pissing match with you and compare illnesses. Farthest thought from my mind.

And, by the way, some people seek out others not just for sex, but companionship too. Where did I say anywhere that I'm exclusively looking for cock? You and what's her name assume that all I want is a fuck. Farthest thing from it. Obviously you haven't been reading what has actually said by me or buy any other man for that matter, just concerned about who roars the loudest. Bravo. You win. The only opinions that count around here are the very vocal women's, Man, if only one thing, this thread has surly proven why some guys cheat or pack up and run from their women. And all the power too them. You can scream, "STRONG WOMAN!" all you two want. All the more reason for some guys to turn 100% gay. I have never been more supportive of gay men's rights to marry then I have in the past few days.

awww did I touch a nerve lil babba?

It doesn't matter who gave the opinions... You have had opinions from bi single males, bi attached males, straight females and bi females and all you do it call us judgmental and make personal attacks. You have taken and argued opinions that weren't even directed at you and made it your own mission. You made someone else's post about you. Which is not surprising and all the more solidifies my foot stomping opinion about you.

Seems to me, that no matter what the opinion is or who it comes from, you are just to immature to accept an opinion as an opinion. Opinions are what people think, Its your choice to grab them by the reigns and ride them, or take them with a grain of salt.


And your comment in bold is the probably says more about yourself than it does about women and opinions. And once again you are blaming others... Looks like another solidification of another comment I made.

[csrakate]

Women nest and some women find it difficult to let their men have their own life outside of work.

That is one of the most chauvinistic comments I have heard in some time....and so very one sided. I don't hear you say that many men feel that their wives belong at home and find it difficult for them to have a life outside of the home.....Dear God man....have you no ability to see ANYTHING from someone else's viewpoint??? You must be a spin doctor in real life....I have never seen anyone screw around with the written word to make it slant in their direction than I have witnessed with your so called "arguments". You want to have your cake and eat it too....plain and simple....Fuck the political correctness of calling it "redefined monogamy".....You simply want it all and refuse to see the validity of any other arrangement. Have at it Tenni...enjoy your three way relationships....and I hope you have one of them by your side when your days draw to an end.

[tenni]

"Straight women on the other hand, eventually grew as porn consumers, but never felt the need to consume bi-male pornography or woman on woman pornography. Cause it doesn't float their boats."

You may be on to a possibility. Many straight guys say that they do enjoy female female porn..and some secretly fantasize and see themselves as the great lover who will satisfy both or really both will satisfy him...lol

Some straight women also are reported to secretly enjoy seeing man /man sex but it is more of a taboo for them.

It is not threatening for many men to see women having sex. It threatens straight men to see two guys have sex...uh...but some actually look at the dicks a lot in straight porn...sometimes dicks are shown more than the female....lol

After reading a post or two here, I wonder if straight women are threatened by anyone endangering their "coupleness" as referred to here by one woman....lol

[tenni]

"That is one of the most chauvinistic comments I have heard in some time....and so very one sided."

Yes it is my perspective. Call it what you want.

Just ask the widower/divorced man who loses his wife. If "coupledom" has prevented him from developing relationships without his wife, he is lost when she dies....totally lost. The same may hold true however for a woman who has not developed relationships outside of her marriage. It is more often the man however that doesn't develop relationships outside his marriage. So, I guess that it is the guy's fault?

Other couples develop relationships (non sexual or ?) and are not so dependent upon each other...but that again is a different thread.

[csrakate]

I am neither threatened about my "coupleness" nor am I afraid to let my husband explore. I am not a one woman crusade to squash the rights of the bisexual. Far from it...I am sexually open and quite open minded. I find male/male porn highly arousing and the thought of male/male sex is very much a turn on, but both my husband and myself are very much aware that what may be wonderful in fantasy doesn't always translate well in reality...so taking that extra step is not something that either one of us takes lightly. Do not presume that I, as a straight woman, am holding my husband back. As time progressed and my comfort level about his sexuality increased, I was quite open to him finally having the chance to explore that side of himself once more...but that was not a choice he wanted to make. So forgive me if I take offense to your constant remarks that the straight woman is not open to change or cannot allow stepping away from traditional monogamy....Maybe you need to open YOUR mind a bit to YOUR interpretation of straight women and what they are capable of. You might just be surprised.

[rissababynta]

Obviously arguing with these two is like me trying to jerk off, it's pointless and a waste of effort. Let them just keep making up what they want, let them keep putting words in others mouths. I'm done.

This is one of the most unreal threads I've ever seen...amazing...

[littlerayofsunshine]

Obviously arguing with these two is like me trying to jerk off,

I would sure love to watch you try *drools*

[rissababynta]

I would sure love to watch you try *drools*

Well then, I'll try for you littleray haha

[mikey3000]

No doubt there's a dick down there somwehere.

[rissababynta]

No doubt there's a dick down there somwehere.

Yeah, there is. It's way bigger than yours and it's getting a lot more action...obviously...

[tenni]

"
Obviously arguing with these two is like me trying to jerk off, it's pointless and a waste of effort. Let them just keep making up what they want, let them keep putting words in others mouths. I'm done."

Well, maybe the thread may go back to the topic then?

This is not about arguing or one upmanship. It was about discussion of an alternative for bisexuals.

This is what I got out of this sometimes off topic rambling discussion:

a/ the concept of bisexual monogomy referring to a partner of one gender which includes therefore two possible partners is difficult for some to accept on this site
b/ there is a preference in some posters to perceive monogomy as being one on one regardless of the gender
c/ the word monogomy is perhaps not the best word due to its historical reference to the concept of only two in a relationship Polyamory may be more appropriate
d/ HelloToYou proposed "if the two people are just as much in a relationship with each other as they are with you, it is polyamory" ** This was not explored or expanded upon
e/ All parties need to participate in the decision but as to what degree and how detailed has not been discussed (no arguing please as this may be individualistic)
f/ Bisexuals need to let people understand what we are and what makes us tick, as best we can.
Bisexuality has many aspects to it and there is not just one form of bisexuality
g/ clarification of the many types of relationships out there that apply to all people, including Bisexuals through education is best
h/ Some bisexual males find it difficult to approach their straight female partners when discussing their bisexuality
i/ Some straight females find it difficult initially to accept male bisexuality from a partner or potential partner
A lot of straight people are turned off by all things bisexual be it same sex bisexuality or opposite bisexuality.
g/ Some straight males seem to be more open to their female partner's bisexuality than the reverse
h/ it is best if you are in a relationship that you are comfortable discussing your bisexuality preferably before entering the relationship
i/ Some female posters found little difficulty discussing their bisexuality with potential partners
j/ One possible approach is to remain in a one to one male female relationship
k/ Female bisexuals posting here differ in their perspective than some male bisexual posters when it comes to how to deal with bisexuality
l/ Bisexual (males) should change themselves so their lifestyle(?) can be easier and more honorable lived. (2:30 pm Oct. 23)
m/ Some posters believe that a bisexual wishing a male/female/male or female/male/female relationship damage the mainstream's perception about bisexuals and feeds into a negative stereotype about bisexuals (5:32 Oct. 23)
n/ Having a relationship between male/female/male or female/male/female is not necessary an attempt to have a traditional coupled marriage

[rissababynta]

"
Obviously arguing with these two is like me trying to jerk off, it's pointless and a waste of effort. Let them just keep making up what they want, let them keep putting words in others mouths. I'm done."

Well, maybe the thread may go back to the topic then?

This is not about arguing or one upmanship. It was about discussion of an alternative for bisexuals.

This is what I got out of this sometimes off topic rambling discussion:

a/ the concept of bisexual monogomy referring to a partner of one gender which includes therefore two possible partners is difficult for some to accept on this site
b/ there is a preference in some posters to perceive monogomy as being one on one regardless of the gender
c/ the word monogomy is perhaps not the best word due to its historical reference to the concept of only two in a relationship Polyamory may be more appropriate
d/ HelloToYou proposed "if the two people are just as much in a relationship with each other as they are with you, it is polyamory" ** This was not explored or expanded upon
e/ All parties need to participate in the decision but as to what degree and how detailed has not been discussed (no arguing please as this may be individualistic)
f/ Bisexuals need to let people understand what we are and what makes us tick, as best we can.
Bisexuality has many aspects to it and there is not just one form of bisexuality
g/ clarification of the many types of relationships out there that apply to all people, including Bisexuals through education is best
h/ Some bisexual males find it difficult to approach their straight female partners when discussing their bisexuality
i/ Some straight females find it difficult initially to accept male bisexuality from a partner or potential partner
A lot of straight people are turned off by all things bisexual be it same sex bisexuality or opposite bisexuality.
g/ Some straight males seem to be more open to their female partner's bisexuality than the reverse
h/ it is best if you are in a relationship that you are comfortable discussing your bisexuality preferably before entering the relationship
i/ Some female posters found little difficulty discussing their bisexuality with potential partners
j/ One possible approach is to remain in a one to one male female relationship
k/ Female bisexuals posting here differ in their perspective than some male bisexual posters when it comes to how to deal with bisexuality
l/ Bisexual (males) should change themselves so their lifestyle(?) can be easier and more honorable lived. (2:30 pm Oct. 23)
m/ Some posters believe that a bisexual wishing a male/female/male or female/male/female relationship damage the mainstream's perception about bisexuals and feeds into a negative stereotype about bisexuals (5:32 Oct. 23)
n/ Having a relationship between male/female/male or female/male/female is not necessary an attempt to have a traditional coupled marriage

everyone who has spoken to you about your thread topic has done nothing but hit a brick wall of manipulative writing. No thanks. Like I said, it's useless...

[tenni]

LOL
I quoted you directly.

[mikey3000]

Ha ha ha!!! Tenni, you are brilliant! You are a gentleman and a scholar. Koodos.

[rissababynta]

LOL
I quoted you directly.

Then point it out. As far as I'm concerned I have asked you the same question twice and not once have you sponded directly to me with a direct answer.

I'd be willing to wait a little longer if you'll actually do it...if not then I'll go in peace.

And mikey...it's kudos...not koodos you twit.

[mikey3000]

Thanks. I'm still trying to get a grip on my english.:cool: Kudos, Tenni.

[rissababynta]

Thanks. I'm still trying to get a grip on my english.:cool: Kudos, Tenni.

No problem. Anytime

[mikey3000]

First off you don't turn 100% gay.

You either are homosexual or you are not.

Secondly you're not a gay man and you are in Canada and homosexual men there can already get married to each other.

This too is debatable. I personally know several men who are attracted to both sexes, but choose to be with men exclusively because they can't deal with women's emotions. Their words, not mine.

Secondly, just because gays (both males and females) can legally marry in Canada, doesn't mean it is widely accepted. There are still barriers for them.

[tenni]

At 2:30 pm EDT on October 23 Rissababynta wrote
l/ Bisexual (males) should change themselves so their lifestyle(?) can be easier and more honorable lived. (2:30 pm Oct. 23)

Rissababyna posted 25 times out of the previous 87 posts to this thread. (now more posts have appeared before I could finish my bean counting) That was 28% of the total posts. I found the majority of her posts not very helpful or worth summarizing. Rather confrontation and abrassive.

I've been coming to this site for a couple of years and never posted here before yesterday. I realize that most here are not open to reinventing the term monogomous for bisexuals. What can I say, I'm an artsie not a bean counter but I do seem to have an analytical side..just not like u though.

[tenni]

Thanks for your thoughts IsItAllOverMyFace?. I do still see a difference if it is a relationship between three but see that most wish to refer to it as polyamour. One person made a comment

HelloToYou proposed "if the two people are just as much in a relationship with each other as they are with you, it is polyamory"

I'd like to read an explanation about this thought. I get the idea that there is some reference to about equality but do not completely comprehend her thought.

(please do not comment rissababynta as you are not helpful at all)

I think that IsItAlloverMyFace's last comment about a couple and then a third person is not exactly what Hello meant?

[mikey3000]

tenni-If you are inviting other people into your relationship, have an arrangement with your partner where you can get some cock or pussy on the side with their blessing, or you are having sex with more than one person while you are in a relationship, then by definition you are not in a monogamous relationship.

As for what's called Polyamory that's just the current buzzword and a nicer way for saying that you are in an open relationship.

You wrote about how some bisexual men do not want to tell heterosexual women about their sexuality.

These men are closet cases and cowards and give bisexual men a bad name.
They should just be honest from the start.

Plus they sabotage themselves for ever having an open relationship with their partner or even having a relationship that is based on honesty, trust, and open communication between both partners.

Yet you totally welcome and service these cowards in your own home? Dude, ths is right from your own profile:

"If you are married and need to be discreet that is fine.

I love to go to adult bookstores and bath houses and I sometimes set up a private gloryhole at home. Walk in, unzip, unload, cum and go! I love to have my mouth used by a group of men and be their personal cocksucker and swallow every drop!"

[mikey3000]

Then dude, you are the worst kind of hipocrite for calling these guys cowards. Sorry, but you are just as bad as they are.

If blowing all these anonymous strangers in your own home gets you going, that's great. That's your thing and I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with you putting them down and insulting them in a public forum. That's just so not cool. It just shows your words mean noting.

Dorry dude, but I calls em as I sees em.

[mikey3000]

That's right, I did. I stood up for them. I didn't judge them. Ever. I stood against those who did judge them and got lambasted for it. You insulted them, but that's ok as long as you got a bunch of secret cock to suck. Dude, I'm so disappointed. Why would you do that to your fellow brothers?

And I didn't condone it, I said I understood why some feel the need to do it. Big difference.

[rissababynta]

Well put. In other words, for those who have a hard time understanding, this means instead of changing words and definitions to fit your lifestyle, worry about changing yourself so your lifestyle can be easier and more honorable lived.

This is actually what I said, summing up littlerays words. Also, I fail to realize how this is me saying that I am against a bisexual being with more than one person and how if a person is with more than one person without permission, it is cheating.

Maybe I wouldn't be so abrassive if you would stop saying that I say things when I don't.

[rissababynta]

[/B]

Yet you totally welcome and service these cowards in your own home? Dude, ths is right from your own profile:

"If you are married and need to be discreet that is fine.

I love to go to adult bookstores and bath houses and I sometimes set up a private gloryhole at home. Walk in, unzip, unload, cum and go! I love to have my mouth used by a group of men and be their personal cocksucker and swallow every drop!"

By the way, this is in answer to the question you had asked littleray before...

The reason why she has no profile is because she has had a person on here use it to try to make her look bad.

[mikey3000]

That doesn't make them gay men or homosexual.

If they were gay men they would not be having any sexual attractions to women at all.

All it means is that they do not want relationships with women but instead have them with men for whatever reason.

There are bisexual men who do not want relationships at all with men and just want them with women, this does not make them straight.

That is totally illogical.

[littlerayofsunshine]

By the way, this is in answer to the question you had asked littleray before...

The reason why she has no profile is because she has had a person on here use it to try to make her look bad.


you are right Rissa, it was that and someone else was using my pictures that I had here, and using them on another website and impersonating me. So I am a more private and careful person now... Cause as Rissa and I know, google is a powerful tool and can find loads of info on it.

[rissababynta]

That is totally illogical.

What he is saying is that it is possible to be bisexual and not want a relationship with someone of the same sex

[mikey3000]

By the way, this is in answer to the question you had asked littleray before...

The reason why she has no profile is because she has had a person on here use it to try to make her look bad.

And it's ok for some here to try and make others look bad? I was thinking of pulling down my profile too, but then I thought what do I have to hide? My profile is a small yet truthful blurb of who I am and what I stand for. No hiding for me.

[littlerayofsunshine]

And it's ok for some here to try and make others look bad? I was thinking of pulling down my profile too, but then I thought what do I have to hide? My profile is a small yet truthful blurb of who I am and what I stand for. No hiding for me.


and if anyone wants to know what you look like they can go to gayfriendfinder.com

[rissababynta]

And it's ok for some here to try and make others look bad? I was thinking of pulling down my profile too, but then I thought what do I have to hide? My profile is a small yet truthful blurb of who I am and what I stand for. No hiding for me.

That's great, but if others no longer feel comfortable having it up because they experienced it being used negatively against them, then that is their choice. You felt fine with it being up. Some don't. To each their own in the end.

[mikey3000]

What he is saying is that it is possible to be bisexual and not want a relationship with someone of the same sex
And yet the guys I know who have never been with a woman, and thought are curious, will never be with a woman. And they consider themselves gay. Is this correct for them to do or no? Do I correct them and call them bi?

[mikey3000]

That's great, but if others no longer feel comfortable having it up because they experienced it being used negatively against them, then that is their choice. You felt fine with it being up. Some don't. To each their own in the end.
Absolutely. But if you sit here and preach bullshit to others that directly contradicts your own public profile, then you better be prepared to have the mud flying. Does that make sense Myface?

[rissababynta]

And yet the guys I know who have never been with a woman, and thought are curious, will never be with a woman. And they consider themselves gay. Is this correct for them to do or no? Do I correct them and call them bi?

Some may be gay but simply have a curiosity. Some may be straight up bi. You'll probably never truly know until they do. It's no one's place to correct how they feel comfortable identifying themselves considering that there are so many different labels that people use when addressing sexuality, it's all mainly just a preference.

[mikey3000]

and if anyone wants to know what you look like they can go to gayfriendfinder.com That's right. Like I said, I have nothing to hide. Is my profile there much different than it is here, Little ray? My wife actually took that picture for me.

[rissababynta]

Absolutely. But if you sit here and preach bullshit to others that directly contradicts your own public profile, then you better be prepared to have the mud flying. Does that make sense Myface?

I am not for or against the person that you were originally quoting their profile. However, I do know that in littlerays case she did nothing wrong to deserve it and therefore should not be ridiculed for not wishing to have anymore personal information up.

And what the hell is this Myface? You lost me a little on that one...

[mikey3000]

Some may be gay but simply have a curiosity. Some may be straight up bi. You'll probably never truly know until they do. It's no one's place to correct how they feel comfortable identifying themselves considering that there are so many different labels that people use when addressing sexuality, it's all mainly just a preference.
Totally agree. It's their choice how they want to be identified.

[mikey3000]

I am not for or against the person that you were originally quoting their profile. However, I do know that in littlerays case she did nothing wrong to deserve it and therefore should not be ridiculed for not wishing to have anymore personal information up.

And what the hell is this Myface? You lost me a little on that one...

The last part of that comment was directed to: Isitallovermyface. Just getting tired.

[rissababynta]

The last part of that comment was directed to: Isitallovermyface. Just getting tired.

OOOOOOOO...I thought you were calling me myface...I couldn't figure out where the hell that nickname came from lmfao.

[mikey3000]

and if anyone wants to know what you look like they can go to gayfriendfinder.com
My pic is now on here too. Feel free. At least it's not a cock shot.

[mikey3000]

How about the fact that they don't fuck chicks, only dudes, and they consider themselves gay. Should I correct them then?

Look I can dream of going to the moon all I want, does that make me an astronaut?

[littlerayofsunshine]

Rissa!! MyFace Right Now! Ten Hut!

[mikey3000]

Oh, that was subtle. LOL!!!!! :eek:

[mikey3000]

Dude, I've only referred to one set of gay guys.

[mikey3000]

dude, it's the same group Where did I say they had sex and realtionships with women? I said they are attracted to them, but can't deal with women's emptions. The guys don't have to have sex and relationships with women to know they have a different set of emotions then men. Most have sisters, mothers, female friends and learn that from.

[mikey3000]

But them never, ever having slept with women, and having no intension to, makes them gay. That is the label they give themselves, not me.

[Long Duck Dong]

Long Dong
I recalled that the term "bisexual" is actually considered by some sexual theorists as a :catch all" term. Research was done and a hypothesis formulated that there were about nine categories of bisexuality. I didn't completely agree with the researcher but thought that it was a start. One categories was referred to as "situtational bisexuality" such as within prisons. The person has same sex relationship(s) while in situations where opposite sex relationships are difficult. Once they are out of that situation then they never enter into same sex relationships. I found this a bit of stretch. I can understand how people like yourself may find my referring to a bisexual monogomy as difficult because it doesn't fit your concept of straight interpretation of monogomy. Yes, it is a form of polyamour but a restrictive one and not fuck buddy scenario(which by the way has a variety of interpretations as well but rather unrelated to the thread topic)

Yes, it is best if a person knows that they are bisexual before they enter a marriage with the opposite sex. Yes, the best route is to discuss your bisexuality with your potential opposite sex person. It is also best if there were a greater understanding and tolerance of bisexuals by opposite sex partners who are completely straight. Is that true today? No, I don't think that it is. If you are a "real" bisexual, I find your thoughts rather negative towards being more open minded to discuss how we can co exist with straight partners. You seem to wish to argue a straight interpretation and not be open to examining a more fluid understanding about how bisexual men(as is the more common case) find it difficult to get their opposite sex partners to be more tolerant of their bisexuality. Some bisexuals may be able to adhere to a straight monogomy all of their life while others find it more difficult. Are they the same type of bisexual? Probably not but I don't have the research to argue that point.

define real bisexual for me please....

I appear to fail to be a * real * bisexual to you so I will see if my life history checklist, is excluding me from being a * real * bisexual

my reason for refering to myself as a bisexual is that I first had sexual relations with a male then 3 years later with a female....

I have had sexual contact with males and females equally over the years....

that is a 26 year span.... that is amply time for me to understand that I have a equal attraction to both genders...which rules out me being hetero or gay....as I do enjoy the sexual and non sexual company of both genders ( and to avoid a major issue, I am correctly pansexual as I am attracted to trans gender and intersex and gender undefined, it is that bisexual is a easier term for people to relate to

I choose to do the monogamous relationship lifestyle, as multiple sexual contacts cause issues for me...and due to the fact I have dystimia ( its a form of untreatable, incurable depression that is personality based in me... it doesn't response to drugs etc and I have a life long history of dystimia )
so I willingly choose to be with ONE partner at a time and I perfer long term relationships as opposed to casual sex/ one night stands.....

I have a same sex companion, and have been close to them for 18 years.... we do not have sexual contact as the companionship is more one of support and friendship but a very deep closeness...( my current opposite sex partner is aware of this same sex partner )
we do not class ourselves as being in a same sex relationship tho others may twist the facts to assume we are

I tell my partners that I would perfer a monogamous relationship with them despite the fact I am bisexual as I struggle with my bisexuality and the dystimia, they both conflict with each other....
I am not forced to or obliged to stay in a monogamous relationship, I choose to be in one.....unfortunately the parters that have cheated on me, saw things differently in regards to themselves

as for my supposed argument about straight interpertation ...
I understand mono to mean one.... bi to mean two and poly to mean more than two.... now unless the maths system I learnt as school, is wrong....
mono relationship refers to being with one person... bi relationship, refers to being with two....
it is not a * straight * interpretation, its a mathematical principal

bisexual monogamy is not possible, it contradicts itself.... bi ( two ) into a single unit ( one )
you are saying it should be bi same and bi opposite equals bi mono...

now when I went to school, 1 + 1 = 2 but 1 + 1 = 2 = 1 relationship with two people = monogamy ?????

now the major fuck up in your idea is that a lot of people do not have one same sex and one opposite sex partner.... they may have one opposite sex or same sex partner and casual sex with any number of same / opposite sex partners..... so are they in a bisexual monogamous relationship too ????

no cos according to your idea, its only for people that have a partner of both genders and that is 3 people in a long term relationship
now what if the partners of the bisexual, are have multiple partners....
you then have 1+1=2 ( + 1+ 1+ 1) = ?
the bisexual can not be monogamous as their partners are not monogamous with the bisexual, they are poly....

so you have to narrow the field down to a bisexual that is having long term one on one relationships with a partner of both genders....

you are ruling out a bisexual in a monogamous relationship with one person of either gender...... and a bisexual that is not in a long term relationship with two people, under your umbrella of bisexual monogamy....

you are ruling out people that are not bisexual or having relations with bisexual people...

you are saying that the idea of monogamous is a enforced idea.... when in a lot of cases, the bisexuals are choosing a monogamous relationship, then questioning the sexuality of the bisexual for having a monogamous relationship.....

it really sounds to me, like you just want another label that people do not want as there are too many labels floating around as it is, and people arguing on who has what right to what label....

ME ? I am bisexual natured, but fall under the pansexual label, in a monogamous relationship with a straight female ( my own choice ) and currently celibate...... hence I use the term bisexual.....

now you can argue it till you turn blue in the face like a smurf....but even a life long celibacy lifestyle monk with no understanding of sexuality can see that you have about as much support with your bisexual monogamy stance, as a ladies breasts has with a bra with a broken back strap

[rissababynta]

Rissa!! MyFace Right Now! Ten Hut!

LMFAO. wooooooow. Well, I am traveling up north tonight and I'll be there for a week. Maybe I'll take a trip into NY haha.

[rissababynta]

AND JUST TO THROW MY TWO CENTS IN QUICKLY...the majority of gay people I've known have admitted to being attracted to the opposite sex now and then. They have no intention of being with the opposite sex, they down right don't want to be with them, and they feel comfortable identifying with gay.

There is a theory that bisexuals don't exist. That they are just closeted gays. Then there are theories that everyone is bisexual, but the degree to which would make you lean towards the label of gay.

There are some things in life that no one person can say is the definite answer. Love and sexuality easily fall into that category because the way they are perceived and felt and experienced is totoally different for each individual in the world.

[rissababynta]

now you can argue it till you turn blue in the face like a smurf....but even a life long celibacy lifestyle monk with no understanding of sexuality can see that you have about as much support with your bisexual monogamy stance, as a ladies breasts has with a bra with a broken back strap

Love that.

[mikey3000]

Then dude, you are an extreme minority.

I had dinner with several of my gay buddies last night, and guess what? They all have expressed an interest in the female body at one time or another. But none have ever acted on it and none ever have any intension to. They are gay. No confusion here. Many people, both males and females have had same sex experiences in their past, experimenting, but does that mean they have to classify themselves as bisexual now?

I doubt it very much and I challenge you to correct another gay person on their sexual identity. How you label yourself is your business, but don't try and correct others' labels. It's just not cool.


These men are not gay. In Their words, they are attracted to both sexes.

I agree that you sound like you are confused on what it means to be a gay or homosexual man.

If you are a gay man like myself you do not have ANY sexual attraction to women at all.

I know it must be hard for you to believe but I have never been sexually attracted to women at all.

You can put who you think is the hottest woman in front of me and I can tell if a woman is beautiful but there's no sexual attraction there at all towards her or any woman.

Women do not do anything sexually for me.

[mbigtim]

As for my own situation, my husband told me that he was bisexual...not because he wanted me to allow him to have same gender sex, but because he wanted me to accept him for who he truly is and he didn't want to spend the rest of his life hiding the fact that same gender sex is very arousing to him. His bisexuality is part of who he is...but it does not DEFINE him. He loves me, he is committed to me and monogamy with me was his choice that he made. Maybe the two of us will explore together one day...who knows....but that will be a choice that we make TOGETHER...as a couple.

Have you been talking to my wife? :tong:

I told my "straight as an arrow" wife about my bisexuality long before SHE proposed to me. I could have very easily walked away at any time, but knowing that she wanted a commitment, I still stayed with her. Thus, I made the choice to be monogamous with her. Granted, she is open and realistic enough to know that marriage was not the ending of life. We are both "allowed" to look all we want, but just not to touch. Is this fair to me? I would say so since it was my choice to accept it. And no one held a gun to my head.

Who knows, one of these days my wife will become bi-curious, either by wanting to try another woman or see me with another man. If she does then as you have said, we will try it together. Thus, it will be a mutual decision to end, whether permanantly or temporarily, our "monogamous" relationship. I do not agree with redefining a word just to benefit one group of people. Granted, by redefining the word monogamy, you cannot limit it to bisexuals. ALL other sexual orientations and beliefs would have to be allowed to have their own type of monogamous relationships.

[tenni]

IsItAllOverMyFace?

What makes you think that you have the sequence of events correct?

You are misjudging Mikey. You are incorrect with your perceptions but I won't write any more details either out of respect for him.

[tenni]

"Tenni, the stuff that you wrote about how "women nest" and other things that you wrote are old fashioned, misogynistic, and sexist."

You are so correct(not) "women nest" has been used by Dr. Phil. We all know that he is an old fashioned, misogynist and sexist....lol

[csrakate]

Let's just clarify this "women nest" thing a bit....YES...women do nest...they make homes and look for ways to nurture their families...but NO WHERE does it state that they resent members of their family for having lives outside of that home nor does it ever state that they don't, themselves, seek outside friendships and activities outside of the home. I shuttled many a carpool for those activities while still balancing a vital life for myself in the volunteer world....doing things on my own that made me feel like I was making a contribution to my community. The notion that women resent such things is YOUR interpretation, tenni, a very old fashioned and chauvinistic interpretation and it seems to be part of your never ending attempt to blame women for the lack of extra-curricular sexual activity allowed for bisexual men.

[Long Duck Dong]

Let's just clarify this "women nest" thing a bit....YES...women do nest...they make homes and look for ways to nurture their families...but NO WHERE does it state that they resent members of their family for having lives outside of that home nor does it ever state that they don't, themselves, seek outside friendships and activities outside of the home. That is YOUR interpretation, tenni and it seems to be part of your never ending attempt to blame women for the lack of extra-curricular sexual activity allowed for bisexual men.

lol I have watched tenni blame christianity and females for imposed monogamy ..... but I have not seen them address the aspect of self imposed monogamy by non christian males ( myself and kates hubby ) to any great degree

I have not seen tenni actually shown that people are monogamous because of the bible, merely that tenni blames christianity without any fact....

I have not tenni really address the aspect of males imposing monogamy on a bisexual female and it does happen, one of my friends has done that with his female partner...and she willingly chooses to remain monogamous

I have not seen tenni prove that imposed monogamy is destructive to a persons state of mind, and of all the arguments I have seen, I have only seen people state they were not able to function without multiple partners, and that is a opinion, I have never seen any medical scientific proof that lack of multi partners leads to a nervous / mental breakdown

I have not seen tenni prove that cheating or infidelity does NOT result in the breakdown of trust and respect in a relationship, when the facts become known.....

all I has seen is a biased and wildly inaccurate set of statements by tenni with no foundation or facts.... and a good number of people in the site, insulted by tenni's statements.....

I would happily change my opinion and statements if I am incorrect, I would happily give a public apology and I would welcome being proved wrong on statements and opinions I have made...... but I say that with the understanding that a expressed opinion will not change my opinion, I like to see facts.... clear facts that I am wrong..... I challenge tenni, to * man up * :tongue: and do the same

[tenni]

"Let's just clarify this "women nest" thing a bit....YES...women do nest...they make homes and look for ways to nurture their families...but NO WHERE does it state that they resent members of their family for having lives outside of that home nor does it ever state that they don't, themselves, seek outside friendships and activities outside of the home."

I agree with you csrakate. I may have been a little overzealous with my words because I was growing angry with with I saw as resistence to my thoughts and felt ridiculed and attacked by a few posters. Polyamour seems to be the word but I still think that my premise has merit. I am to blame for letting some get to me. I found so much hostility from some that I missed an important comment early on in this thread.

I guess that I will just hold my thoughts to myself but that is not me...lol I was going to attempt to explain my thoughts but it just isn't worth it. I realize that I've probably created a negative image of myself.

[mbigtim]

I guess that I will just hold my thoughts to myself but that is not me...lol I was going to attempt to explain my thoughts but it just isn't worth it. I realize that I've probably created a negative image of myself.

Well then turn things around and see if you can change that perceived image. Go ahead and explain your thoughts, it is always worth it to get your points across. :)

[csrakate]

Well then turn things around and see if you can change that perceived image. Go ahead and explain your thoughts, it is always worth it to get your points across. :)

Agreed, mbigtim, it's never too late to turn things around. Tenni, everyone has the right to their beliefs and their thoughts should and could be given merit, but not at the expense of others. I am sure you may have some very valid points, but you need to express them without pointing fingers and without assigning blame at groups of people in a blanket fashion. THAT is where you got off to a bad start...you were too busy blaming others for a situation that you feel isn't ideal. You have to keep in mind that different people handle things in a different manner than you do, and what you may feel is a perfect arrangement may be at the cost of what others hold dear. Different strokes for different folks....(no pun intended LOL)....

[tenni]

csrakate

I was writing from my perspective and it seems that I was referring to a type of polyamour perspective. I actually have an understanding about that word and in my mind that is not what I was thinking. It probably is though. I may have been mixing up ideas about multiple multiple partners and I was thinking about a more lower number than I associate with the idea of polyamour. For me I was thinking about what in my mind is a closer union of three people. I was probably thinking of the situation where two partners are bi ( or even one gay) and of the same gender and one was not bi and of the opposite gender. I was not thinking about whether the relationship would be co habitating or anything like that. It is possible but I think that there are other ways initially. I was thinking about a respectful relationship where each person's boundaries would be respected.

I find a lot of animousity here and a pre occupation with arguing (not discussing) about cheating. Most threads are not though but the idea keeps taking over some other threads. I've read the forums over the past three years at different time. A lot of the threads don't interest me but I found some interesting. I thought of previous threads as supportive. Somehow, I took a wrong turn because it hasn't been.

[csrakate]

Tenni,
I think the biggest problem I had with your arguments stems from the fact that you wanted to "redefine" monogamy with the premise that traditional monogamy cannot and will not work when one of the couple is a bisexual. Many bi/straight couples have an understanding, if you will, that it is OK for the spouse to seek same sex encounters and if that is what they choose, then so be it. But those are NOT monogamous couples, but instead couples who have chosen an open marriage. That works for many couples and more power to them if they can make it work....but there are some truly monogamous relationships between bisexuals and straights out there and bisexuals are indeed capable of loving and remaining committed to one person, even if that person is of the opposite gender. Instead of trying to redefine the word monogamy, maybe you should realize that you are talking about something altogether different. To say that a bisexual is incapable of having a monogamous relationship in the way it is defined today is simply perpetuating the myth that bisexuals cannot control their libido and that they will never be happy unless they are having sex with both genders. That simply isn't always the case. So instead of feeling like your thoughts and beliefs aren't being met with an open mind, realize that perhaps it is your premise that we change the definition of monogamy that is causing the problem. If you wish to promote a more open attitude towards marriage, then so be it...but don't do it by negating the relationships that exist between truly monogamous couples.

I am getting tired and I may be rambling at this point, but I hope you see where I am coming from. It's all good....I know in your heart you didn't mean to slam straight women nor did you intend to make us feel like we are doing our spouses wrong....but it sure came across that way. Sorry if you feel attacked....but I guess when I feel like my lifestyle and life decisions are being questioned, I get on the defensive...no harm intended.

[tenni]

I think that the thread "Friend in town Part II" is an example of what I was thinking about. There are other forms of course.

I think of the term "open relationship" as broader than what I was thinking about but as one recent poster has stated the parameters would need to be defined. I think of an open relationship as being able to go beyond the triad. I am thinking of the triad as a less open.

I have read that there are difficulties in such triads. Some have stated that one is always left out or such things. In the thread "Friend in town part II, the established relationship that had been going on for years was between two men. I think that this is a perspective that I was thinking more about but realize that there are many variations. It appears that the two men are bisexual and accepted that one of the guys may be with a woman or both but their relationship would still exist and it was a sexual relationship. The OP has raised an issue and maybe found a solution to what would probably be several such types of issues. In that thread, the woman is bisexual and more open to the possibilities perhaps. Now, that I think about it, the relationships may involve more than the three. The bisexual woman may also have another partner. In that case, the male/female part would be resolving "stuff" closer to what I think a lot of posters seem to be connected to.

I can now see some of the complexities but for me the Friend thread is closer to what I was thinking. I wouldn't mind hearing about positive situations where this may exist. I think that I've had enough preaching...lol

[Long Duck Dong]

Nope I'm not in the minority.

Ask any fag you claim to know if they are actually sexually attracted to women at all, or ever have been, and we'll all tell you the same thing: No.

We're not bisexual men or heterosexual men who actually do have sexual attractions towards women. I can tell if a woman is good looking or not but this does not mean that I have a sexual attraction towards women or even a curiosity towards sex with women. It is like how straight people can tell if someone of the same gender is attractive but it does not mean that they want to fuck them.

You seem rather confused about what it means to be a gay man and your bisexual male friends do too.

I don't know any heterosexuals who actually have experimented sexually with the same gender since if these people really were straight they would not have done it in the first place and usually they come out as being bisexual years later or they just get married and become closeted and cheat on their wives like you apparently did. Keep in mind that some people will use the whole 'Oh but I was just experimenting!' excuse to stay closted.

I asked 17 gays that I know, including a few professionals in the counselling / therapist fields ....

17 gays answered that YES, they have thought about sexual contact with females and noticed that they have no desire in that direction compared with sexual desire with males....
the range of answers went from we have never touched a female, to kissed a female, to had 2 sexual encounters with females ( peer pressure )

the ages were from 18 to 78, all IDed as gay by defination
( gay meaning they had desires and needs that were male orientated, were not aroused by female contact, and had no interest in female contact tho they had female friends )

their reaction to your statement, was * militant gay *.... can't accept or handle the idea that gay men can have thoughts or basic experimenting with females as part of finding themselves, as teenagers or men that did the whole * be hetero due to socials pressures * and finally were able to truely be themselves later in life.....

some of the men grew up in a era where homosexuality was illegal and to be gay, was not acceptable so they had to hide themselves and live a lie for many years..... for people to tell them that they are not gay for having a wife / family, is a insult and offensive as many of the people that say that, NEVER grew up the 1920's - 1960's and have no idea what life was like

btw one of the people I asked is the elderly guy in the pics on my profile, hes 78, he had the 2 sexual encounters with females, and spent 35 years hiding his sexuality and going thru the motions of being heterosexual, no kids, no wife, no family....

he doesn't associate with LGBT people much, specially gays cos of the judgemental attitude about gays that have * touched females *...

atittudes like * no gay guy would think about contact with a female * is the same militant and narrowminded attitude that people have when they say that bisexuals do not exist..... we are just gays that fuck opposite sex partners

so gayazn.... the bisexuals can't win, we are closeted gays that can not be gay cos we fuck the opposite sex.......

the gay community don't want us, the heterosexual community is scared of us and well the bi community.... they want us to supply the condoms :tong:

[Long Duck Dong]

I never said you did say it..... the general census is that bisexuals are closeted gays, its all over the net.... its been mentioned a number of times in this site..... bisexuals do not exist, they are gays in denial or heterosexuals with a fetish.......lol

I was addressing sexual attraction to females.... including people that have slept with females.....and ID as gay....

by defination a person is defined by sexual activity....not sexual thinking

hence we tend to label people as bi curious if they have thoughts about sexual attraction to both genders.... but that in itself, doesn't make them bi sexual... as they have not had sexual contact with both genders

so a gay man can have sexual thoughts and attraction to a female, and it doesn't negate him being gay, if he has never had sex with a female, only males. tho it can be argued that he is a bi curious gay male.... and that is a legit term

in order to dispute that, you need to be able to say that ANY person that defines themselves sexually without ever having sex, is using a fake label....
as they have not had sexual relationships to confirm or deny their sexuality, and until the point of sexual contact, they are living in a fantasy world
let me make it VERY clear, I would not dare assume that about any person as it is tantamount to calling them a self deluded liar....

I know for a fact that I was bi curious before I ever had sexual contact, and the sexual contact confirmed my bisexuality but it was still a few years before I was content that it was not a random self learning phase

fantasy v's reality.... we can fantasies but it is the reality that is the defining factor

this is why counsellors and therapists in new zealand are taught, do not discredit or dispute sexuality using a line in the sand, as sexuality is hard to define and there is no clear lines
go by the label the person uses and do not argue it or change it, merely clarify it for the person

[tenni]

There's no real 'relationship' between the men as they were not boyfriends or partners, did not live together, and are just fuck buddies and had sex on and off over the years.

Granted they are friends but they are friends who have or had sex with each other so they are fuck buddies.

I'm not sure why you and your fuckbuddy Mikey think that us gay men want to have a 3 way with a bisexual man and a woman?


GayAZN

A couple of things if I may:

1/ Mikey and I are not fuck buddies.

2/ If you are a gay man, I can understand how you do not perceive a triad relationship as not being "real" but you are not bisexual and perhaps you should refrain from judging in this case. Whatever you think of as a "real relationship" may be turned on you and deny any form of a relationship for you.
ie Gay mean are not in real relationships and it is impossible for a gay man to be in one because he can not have emotions for men. Only women.

Now, I'm not saying that to offend you but as an example of how it seems unfair for one person to deny a type of relationship just because they are not open to it for themselves. I think that what I just wrote is BS as much as I think your words about what triads are BS and judgemental.

I can see the relationship between these two men friends as a real relationship. The poster stated that he loved his "friend" and loved his girlfriend. Whether you wish to label them as fuck buddies or whatever comes across as offensive to me. Sure fuck buddies may work for a label if you can accept that this it is a real relationship that may work for some bisexuals. However, don't just deny what you can not experience for yourself. There may be love. There may be a different living situation that falls outside of what you think of as a "real" relationship but stop declaring that it that way or you are setting up an argument and I feel that i need to defend myself as a bisexual to a gay man. That makes me angry and is counter productive to me creating this thread. That seems unfair on a bisexual site. Some of us can feel love (or emotions..whatever) for more than one person at the same time if there is same sex /opposite sex involved.

3/ With regards to you and Dong who are posting here on this thread discussing gay and bis, would you please take your comments to a new thread? It is not what I have started this thread to discuss. You are distracting any positive discussion on what I'd like to discuss.

[Nadir]

Nader
What you write about society's changing has validity. Where I tend to become unclear is your point about how society changes. If bisexuals remain quiet and adhere to hetero perspectives, will society become bisexual within a few decades? I have my doubts.

Society changes when there is an open examination after pressure has been put upon the society to change. This is apparent when you examine how society has changed over the past one hundred years in its attitude towards women (roles etc.) and other changes ie homosexuality

In the instance of a tendency for female partners in a male/female relationship tending to be more resistent to their male partners taking on same sex relationships, how will change happen without pressure to re examine the perspective. Some bisexuals may remain in a male/female relationship without wanting to explore same sex relationships. As a sociology student maybe you would like to take on a study of changing attitudes towards sexuality in males in western societies as they mature? There may be definite trends needing studying.



Well,first of all, I support the theory that explains that every human being is innately bisexual, having the potential to feel attracted to both male and female genders. However, this attraction is developed over time, being influenced by biological factors(prenatal hormones and the like), social factors, or even political factors. I think that most people are bisexual, and many of them experiment attraction for one gender or the other (or both) at some points on their life (and this attraction can take many forms, it can be erotic,romantic,emotional or sexual/physical). However, I think that many people prefer to identify themselves as heterosexual or homosexual because most people on Western society tend to think of terms of "black and white". I have known girls and boys who have had sex with both men and women but who identify as heterosexuals, even if they admit they are esentially bisexuals, girs and boys who have had sex with both men and women and enjoyed both of them, but who identify as gays or lesbians. I think you are right partly, because bisexual people need to make society sit and take notice that they are a legitimate orientation, not lying to people or to themselves, and not just merely a step of transition to a homosexual identity, but just an entirely different orientation. I agree in that people should explore all the things that life offers to them, however, I dont agree in the part that it should be done without the consent of the primary partner if the person in question is involved in a relationship. If she/he consents, then one is able to choose as he wants, as its his own free will. But I think that for talking about non-monogamy being the natural state of bisexual relationships we should use another terms.

And mikey, I am sorry about your wife :S I know what is like to have someone in your family who is sick. My grandmother died from cancer when I was younger and both my father and two of my uncles suffered from it (one of them dying in his treatment), so I am not entirely a stranger to the illness. I hope everything goes well for you.

[Long Duck Dong]

[I][U].

3/ With regards to you and Dong who are posting here on this thread discussing gay and bis, would you please take your comments to a new thread? It is not what I have started this thread to discuss. You are distracting any positive discussion on what I'd like to discuss.


I am looking at all aspects of ya original post, not one........

as I was pointing out to gayazn, there are a multiple spectrum of sexuality...and it is not always clearly defined

now that brings us back to your original post tenni..... you need to define the bisexual in order to define the idea of bisexual monogamy.... and the relationship

monogamy is one on one..... as we know..... a bisexual with two partners is not monogamy.....
but we did not address a bisexual that has a single partner that may be intersex ( both genders in one body ) and by defination.... a intersex could fulfill the aspects of two partners for the bisexual

if a intersex and a bisexual were able to maintain a balanced relationship one on one.... then by defination, its bisexual monogamy....

the reasoning is that the intersex is fulling two roles not one

allowing for that defination.... a bisexual such as myself, whom is monogamous with a single / straight partner who is working to fulfull both gender aspects for me.... is allowing me to have a bisexual monogamous relationship

I am bisexual in a one of one relationship.... it can be defined as bisexual monogamy.....

that is working on the opinion ( many people post this opinion ) that bisexuality is defined by attraction.... not by the nature of sexual partner....
so I can still be bisexual,... as I have the attractions..... just not the dual gender sexual contact.....

so in a sense, your term is a viably correct one.... its the way it was looked at, that needed adjustment

[mikey3000]

Mikey that's mean and hateful that you did cheat on your wife when she has cancer.

It's clear from your posts that while you claim that she is soooooo important to you and your relationship is important and that you'd never leave her that you do not see her as being the most important thing in your life, you do not seem to be caring about how she has cancer, and you're a coward.

Mikey, your male fuck buddies are more important to you than your wife ever will be and you never should have gotten married to her as she has cancer and you're whining about your male fuck buddies and how much more important they are than she is.

Cancer or no cancer she should come first and your relationship should be #1 especially right now.

Thanks, Tenni, and you are right. We ended the relationship, then I came out to my wife. The funny part was after I came out to her, she suggested I try something with, "that buddy you hang out with". LOL!!! Months after I told her all, she was diagnosed with cancer. Just to set the record straight. People love to make assumptions around here.

[mikey3000]

Nope I'm not in the minority.

Ask any fag you claim to know if they are actually sexually attracted to women at all, or ever have been, and we'll all tell you the same thing: No.

We're not bisexual men or heterosexual men who actually do have sexual attractions towards women. I can tell if a woman is good looking or not but this does not mean that I have a sexual attraction towards women or even a curiosity towards sex with women. It is like how straight people can tell if someone of the same gender is attractive but it does not mean that they want to fuck them.

You seem rather confused about what it means to be a gay man and your bisexual male friends do too.

I don't know any heterosexuals who actually have experimented sexually with the same gender since if these people really were straight they would not have done it in the first place and usually they come out as being bisexual years later or they just get married and become closeted and cheat on their wives like you apparently did. Keep in mind that some people will use the whole 'Oh but I was just experimenting!' excuse to stay closted.

Have you ever heard the term bi curious? If a straight person has ever wondered what it would be like to be with a person of the same sex, yet never has or never will act on it, does that mean they have to classify themselves as bisexual? Change their sexual inentity? Bi curious is not a sexual identity.

And if the term bi curious applies to heterosexuals, why can't it apply to homosexuals too?

And dude, if you think "experimenting" doesn't go on, wow! The high schools and colleges here are full of it. I know that for a fact.

[mikey3000]

Well,first of all, I support the theory that explains that every human being is innately bisexual, having the potential to feel attracted to both male and female genders. However, this attraction is developed over time, being influenced by biological factors(prenatal hormones and the like), social factors, or even political factors. I think that most people are bisexual, and many of them experiment attraction for one gender or the other (or both) at some points on their life (and this attraction can take many forms, it can be erotic,romantic,emotional or sexual/physical). However, I think that many people prefer to identify themselves as heterosexual or homosexual because most people on Western society tend to think of terms of "black and white". I have known girls and boys who have had sex with both men and women but who identify as heterosexuals, even if they admit they are essentially bisexuals, girs and boys who have had sex with both men and women and enjoyed both of them, but who identify as gays or lesbians. I think you are right partly, because bisexual people need to make society sit and take notice that they are a legitimate orientation, not lying to people or to themselves, and not just merely a step of transition to a homosexual identity, but just an entirely different orientation. I agree in that people should explore all the things that life offers to them, however, I dont agree in the part that it should be done without the consent of the primary partner if the person in question is involved in a relationship. If she/he consents, then one is able to choose as he wants, as its his own free will. But I think that for talking about non-monogamy being the natural state of bisexual relationships we should use another terms.

And mikey, I am sorry about your wife :S I know what is like to have someone in your family who is sick. My grandmother died from cancer when I was younger and both my father and two of my uncles suffered from it (one of them dying in his treatment), so I am not entirely a stranger to the illness. I hope everything goes well for you.

Thank you, Sir for your very kind words. It is very difficult, but we will manage one way or another.

Now as for your definition bisexuality, I totally agree. I to believe that inherently all people are born, not bisexual, but rather omnisexual, and as the child develops, internal and external forces guide that child to one identity or another, or somewhere in between. Developmental hurdles are placed in our paths and we are taught, either consciously (religion, politics, ethics) or unconsciously ( examples, lack of influential role models) to go down a certain path in life. And when, down the road, something happens, we start to question that path we chose. Like me, and I'm sure many others, when same sex feelings arise later in life, we actually choose to test them first because to jeopardise our current lives, and those of our spouses and children, careers, etc. is monumental and we need to see if, maybe it is just a passing fad or what not. Once we've established that fact that they are either true or not,(cause lord knows many people, especially men, do stupid things during a mid-life crisis) that is when we chose to re-evaluate our position in the world and how we are going to react to it. That's how it worked for me. It was in the midsts of all this sexual turmoil, and after I came out to my wife, that my family got sick. I even actually thought I caused her illness untill the doctor informed us that the cancer was there undetected for years.

[tenni]

Nadir
Thanks for the interesting thoughts about bisexuality and what it means to you. However, I think that such a discussion was not my intent of the thread. Since, I asked you for clarification, I am interested in your ideas but it wasn't what I was seeking in starting this thread. I must be coming across as an idiot but I got off target by your thoughts. I acknowledge that my word selection was poor in my original statement. I wanted to discuss triad relationships that had elements of fidelity between the partners. Again, my words may be failing me.

LongDong
Again, I don't think that is what I intended to discuss. I have become confused by the various tangents this thread has taken. Regardless if one person is intersexed and it is a couple relationship that is not what I am inquiring about. I am referring to a triad relationship and not a couple relationship. Let me think about it and maybe I will get back to you.

[sglbi3]

If you are looking for an excuse to remain monogomus, you had better keep looking. Bixesuals like sex for sex's sake and i doubt if they were monogomous when they tried same sex the first time. There are a lot of people out there that don't feel any "major" attraction to the person they are having some kind of sex with, just happen to like sex and the feeling it gives you to excite the other person, or the feeling you get when you do something a little off color, many times never to repeat with that person.