When having sex with same sex partner is it cheating

[cabooseme2]

Just a thought that my g/f and i always discuss; Aslong as she knows that i am playing with another guy and not misleading that its a female partner ?.

[arana]

If you are hiding it from your spouse or partner, Yes.

[smokey]

If you are hiding it from your spouse or partner, Yes.



couldn't agree more....the only time it isn't cheating is if they are either informed or involved. Personally I have never cheated on a partner, relationships are complicated enough without muddying the waters by playing around.

[innaminka]

If its done in secret - its cheating!

[anne27]

I have to agree with what everyone else has already said- open and honest with your partner, or it's cheating. :2cents:

[Mrs.F]

I totally agree with all that has been stated already. When I found out my husband was bisexual..what I feared more than anything was that he had been fooling around behind my back. When I asked him if he had been with men at all while married to me..he replied that "he never cheated on me". I knew then that he was being honest with me. Because, as everyone else said, if your doing it without your spouses knowledge of it, it's cheating. I can and will live with him being bisexual...I would not have stayed with him knowing he had cheated on me. :(

Mrs.F

[yaknowthatguy]

add another vote with the others - I totally agree.

[jo69guy]

Honesty is the best policy, but you don't have to be brutal about it. :2cents:

[wildboy40]

i agree as long as the other partner knows then it is not cheating ;)

[ambi53mm]

Given enough time...I think you can rationalize anything for instance

Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica because he didn't see a blowjob as having sex...and remember the old " I didn't inhale"
Based on the above If I were out and about one evening and wound up having oral sex with a total stranger and then told my wife about it the next morning..is that still cheating? Or if I'm online one evening having sex with someone in a cyber room is that considered cheating?...sometimes..Ignorance is Bliss..and feeling a little guilty can be part of the turn on. I'm not advocating that this is something anything should choose to do or not do..in the end you still have to wake up with yourself..it's just where do you draw the line...When is cheating ...cheating?

Ambi :)

[red_riding_hood_27]

Given enough time...I think you can rationalize anything for instance

Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica because he didn't see a blowjob as having sex...and remember the old " I didn't inhale"
Based on the above If I were out and about one evening and wound up having oral sex with a total stranger and then told my wife about it the next morning..is that still cheating? Or if I'm online one evening having sex with someone in a cyber room is that considered cheating?...sometimes..Ignorance is Bliss..and feeling a little guilty can be part of the turn on. I'm not advocating that this is something anything should choose to do or not do..in the end you still have to wake up with yourself..it's just where do you draw the line...When is cheating ...cheating?

Ambi :)


Take it up a notch too..would your spouce/bf/gf consider it cheating. What defines cheating to one person might not be to another.

From the Bible: You have heard that it was said, "you shall not commit adultery". But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman (in this case the same sex) with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart" I grew up with this instilled in me...so it is hard to think otherwise. So I think this way because of the religion I was brought up in.. When everything that first happen to us I thought he did cheat becuase of just looking and desiring someone else than me.


You have to talk with the person you are with to see what they consider cheating! Honesty!
Angela

[meteast chick]

My husband and I are currently having this discussion. I think as long as I'm open and honest, it's not cheating. He says it's still extramarrital, so yes it's cheating. Which basically means...I'm not getting any.

kisses xoxoxo
meteast

[FireRaven]

It is if your partner doesn't know or doesn't approve.

If they don't know, tell 'em. Then work from there. If they don't approve and you just can't help yourself ~ do your partner a favor and leave them!

Being bi isn't a free pass to break hearts or agreements.

Raven

[anne27]

Given enough time...I think you can rationalize anything for instance

Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica because he didn't see a blowjob as having sex...and remember the old " I didn't inhale"
Based on the above If I were out and about one evening and wound up having oral sex with a total stranger and then told my wife about it the next morning..is that still cheating? Or if I'm online one evening having sex with someone in a cyber room is that considered cheating?...sometimes..Ignorance is Bliss..and feeling a little guilty can be part of the turn on. I'm not advocating that this is something anything should choose to do or not do..in the end you still have to wake up with yourself..it's just where do you draw the line...When is cheating ...cheating?

Ambi :)


I think if it makes you feel guilty, you oughtn't be doing it :2cents: .

I have an odd agreement with my hubby. I am free to pursue relationships with women, but he is not. If I were to see a man, however, all hell would break loose.

Women=not cheating. Men=cheating. We all have differing views on what constitutes cheating. It has to be agreed upon between a couple, based on their own beliefs and value systems.

[ketch1]

Let me pose another question, I am married to a woman that is for all intents and purposes through with her sexual life. She is paralyzed and doesn't enjoy or want to discuss sex. Being totally devestated by her injuries and then by her sexual disgust I started by taking matters into my own hands (pun intended) and that blossomed into my acknowledging my bisexuality and ultimately engaging in sex with mmf threesomes over a period of the last 13 years. Having said all of this do you still feel I am cheating? Doesn't the fact that I stayed with her to care for all of her needs entitle me to satisfy mine? I expect that every married woman here will say yes I am cheating! but I will remain objective hoping that I am wrong.

Charles

[red_riding_hood_27]

Let me pose another question, I am married to a woman that is for all intents and purposes through with her sexual life. She is paralyzed and doesn't enjoy or want to discuss sex. Being totally devestated by her injuries and then by her sexual disgust I started by taking matters into my own hands (pun intended) and that blossomed into my acknowledging my bisexuality and ultimately engaging in sex with mmf threesomes over a period of the last 13 years. Having said all of this do you still feel I am cheating? Doesn't the fact that I stayed with her to care for all of her needs entitle me to satisfy mine? I expect that every married woman here will say yes I am cheating! but I will remain objective hoping that I am wrong.

Charles

Does she know and is she okay with it? If she does not know yes It is cheating. If she is okay with it then no it is not cheating. I am so sorry but when you took your vow to her throw sickness and health!!! Then again that is only my personal thoughts.

Angela

[arana]

Let me pose another question, I am married to a woman that is for all intents and purposes through with her sexual life. She is paralyzed and doesn't enjoy or want to discuss sex. Being totally devestated by her injuries and then by her sexual disgust I started by taking matters into my own hands (pun intended) and that blossomed into my acknowledging my bisexuality and ultimately engaging in sex with mmf threesomes over a period of the last 13 years. Having said all of this do you still feel I am cheating? Doesn't the fact that I stayed with her to care for all of her needs entitle me to satisfy mine? I expect that every married woman here will say yes I am cheating! but I will remain objective hoping that I am wrong.

Charles
Whatever gets you throught the night Charles.....but personally the way you worded your actions:
Doesn't the fact that I stayed with her to care for all of her needs entitle me to satisfy mine?sounds very selfish. Dealing with a human need is one thing but when you justify it because you are doing a good dead to make up for it sounds very ugly. I didn't read any affection or saddness from you in what you're wife is going through. You, at least can take care of your needs, she's left to a life of frustration no matter what. What if the roles were reversed and you were left paralyzed and limp dicked and she said those words? I'm sorry but I would have had more sympathy for you had you not sounded so cold towards your wife since I understand and know this type of situation very well.

[ketch1]

Please! Do you think for a minute that I seriously don't care about her feelings? I have been married a long time! WE have lived with this curse for a long time!

As predicted, those were really rude comments and you call me unfeeling. But then, this is what I expected! Yes she knows, No she doesn't care, and yes I feel guilty! But selfish or not I have feelings too! And for once I thought I found a forum that would support me.

Charles

[arana]

Please! Do you think for a minute that I seriously don't care about her feelings? I have been married a long time! WE have lived with this curse for a long time!

As predicted, those were really rude comments and you call me unfeeling. But then, this is what I expected! Yes she knows, No she doesn't care, and yes I feel guilty! But selfish or not I have feelings too! And for once I thought I found a forum that would support me.

Charles
I'm sorry but I didn't say YOU were uncaring I said your words made you sound that way. I don't know what you do and don't do for your wife but your comment of "deserving" sex for taking care of her struck a nerve and I'm sorry. I was molested by someone in your situation and everyone thought he a saint and could do no wrong because he stay by his wife and cared for her. Pieces don't give you a clue into the whole picture. Not knowing you personally, all we have are your words to go by. I do know what this kind of situation brings into a person's life and the frustrations it adds so I do have compassion for you. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. It was your wording, not you, I was upset with and again I apologize.

[ketch1]

No need for appologies. I just need someone to tell me I'm not a phreak and that I am doing what is right for me for a change. Sorry for being so harsh.

Charles

[Lorcan]

Yes she knows, No she doesn't care, and yes I feel guilty! Charles

Well if she knows and doesn't care, then it's not cheating. You just have your own guilt to contend with.

I was once in a position like this. For about a year I couldn't feel any pleasure from sex due to a stroke. It was during this time that i told my husband he could find pleasure elsewhere. He never did. But had I never recovered, I would want him to. Believe me, when you can't feel anything, sex is disgusting. (you wouldn't think so until you're there) All I would want from him would be to cuddle up in bed without pressure for sex.

[ambi53mm]

I think if it makes you feel guilty, you oughtn't be doing it :2cents: .


:::: Wraps his candy bar back up and hides back it in the sock drawer::: :(


"We all have differing views on what constitutes cheating. It has to be agreed upon between a couple, based on their own beliefs and value systems."

I agree. Many of our values are derived from those beliefs and as Red mentions in her post many of those beliefs are instilled in us at a very young age. I was raised in a belief system very similar to hers in it's religious context. I began to seriously question the validity of that belief system during the 60' and 70's understanding that when we’re young we’re impressionable and took the verse “seek and ye shall find” literally.
I no longer maintain that particular belief system and as a result some of those values had to be reevaluated and let go as well. My first marriage was an “open marriage” and as it would imply..it was open and therefore cheating wasn’t part of the equation. My second marriage was traditional in the cultural sense and so” to cheat or not to cheat” became a choice again..even though that marriage was doomed for failure from the beginning..it was ultimately “cheating” that led to it’s final demise…Lesson learned!
We are a married bi couple that when it came to pledging our vows to one another did so with the understanding that we are not traditional nor conventional and that our beliefs and value system had to reflect truth…at the top of our list was the encouragement of one another’s spiritual growth with the belief that these spirits inhabit these bodys for a short time..that we are here to experience being human and all it implies..and that when we leave this plane of physical reality that we reap what we sow..and hopefully the harvest will do honor to those that guide our paths.
Which is more tragic..to cheat on one another.. or to cheat on one’s self? perhaps they’re one and the same.

[Lisa (va)]

Everyone has to define what cheating is to them, just as folks have to define what their sexuality is to themselves. I (my opinion only) is that a persons gender is of little importance when compared to the love of an individual, thus being intimate with another, of either sex, would be cheating. But that said, many folks seem to believe or lead a poly life of some extent, and it basically boils down to what is right in the indivual(s) mind. And of course like most others have said, if it is behind the others back it is definitely cheating.

Lisa

hugs n kisses

[JohnnyV]

It sounds like the real question isn't "is this cheating" but rather, "if I've cheated, should I tell my spouse about it?"

Some folks say that 100% honesty is always the best policy. I would say that cheating is like many other transgressions we do in life. Sometimes we need to bring them to light and get them off our chest to move on. Sometimes, the more honorable thing to do is to keep it quiet so you don't hurt the other person.

Lots of bi married men have to confront this dilemma from time to time. I say, if you've "slipped" up a few times with guys, you don't need to start a conversation with your wife by saying "I've cheated on you with men" and then move on to "by the way, I'm bi, please accept me for it." I'd rather just get to "by the way, I'm bi," and keep the cheating secret, so too many things don't explode at once.

In the case of Flounder and MRs. F, it sounds like fortunately the bi hubby was able to come clean with his bisexuality without a cheating rap sheet to complicate things. For those who aren't so lucky, I say, "silence heals all."

Love,
J

[Lorcan]

I say, if you've "slipped" up a few times with guys,....... I say, "silence heals all."


Yeah but if i find out about it from another person... or some other way than him telling me about it... i'd be so mad i don't know what i'd do. I would feel as if i didn't know him at all; he would suddenly be a stranger to me. You think your secrets are lock up in the proverbial closet, but how locked are they, really? You don't know when someone will pick that lock, and 50 years of a good marriage go down the drain.

OK, I admit.... I'm a pathological truth-teller. :oh:

[rumple4skin]

I do not think there is one definitive answer to this. It depends on the relationship. I think that if I was in a relationship and that person had a reasonable expectation that I am monogamous then to behave other wise would be cheating for me. All of my partners know I have had other partners. In a committed relationship it is up to me and my partner to decide what is cheating and what is not. I also think that no relationship should be one sided. If I had a partner that would not or could not have sex with me anymore I would talk to them about it before I did anything. If they were unwilling to talk about it I am not sure what I would do. As you can see I have thought about this issue a lot :) I do think that honesty is the best policy.

[2ferinindy]

In the case of Flounder and MRs. F, it sounds like fortunately the bi hubby was able to come clean with his bisexuality without a cheating rap sheet to complicate things. For those who aren't so lucky, I say, "silence heals all."

Love,
J[/QUOTE]

In my case, he told me he was bi, I accepted it, and he went on to cheat several times through the course of our marriage. The problem with trying to keep secrets, is that they have a way of being found out. I've caught him at it twice and each time it devastated me. Just be careful to guard your secrets well if this is your chosen path. Personally, I'd have prefered honesty to begin with over ignorance any day.

[bicurious bottom]

For starters, let me say how sorry I am you were molested, Arana! That is just terrible!
As for you, ketch1, you are obviously in a terrible situation, with no easy answers. I can only imagine how difficult this is for both you and your wife. I do agree with Arana with regards to your wording, but I also know not everyone can express themselves well, through writing.
Now, to the point. I feel if she knows and doesnt care.......maybe it's ok. However, every single one of us has a built-in compass. If yours is making you feel guilty, then it's telling you what you are doing is not right. I'm not sure I would be able to do anything differently than you are, though, ketch1.
Best of luck to you, and I do admire you for caring for your wife. As a handful of people here know, I can relate, some.

bicurious_bottom

[csrakate]

No need for appologies. I just need someone to tell me I'm not a phreak and that I am doing what is right for me for a change. Sorry for being so harsh.

Charles

Charles,

Are you a freak? NO! Are you a person in need of some love and compassion, some human contact to feel complete? YES! But as Arana said, the wording made it sound as though you want to feel guiltless as a result of said behavior. What goes on between you and your wife can only be determined by your gut instincts...and I am sure you feel a degree of guilt for seeking comfort from someone other than her. I can only suggest that the two of you remain open in your communication in the future so that neither of you ever feels you are receiving less than what is desired of your relationship.

Best of luck to the two of you and I truly hope that you find happiness within your situation. And kudos to you for standing by the woman you love while she is going through such a terrible thing. As we all know...within a couple, pain felt by one is felt by the other as well...just not always felt in the same way.

Hugs,
Kate

[Mimi]

I agree with most posts here in that "cheating" is a custom-made definition that depends on the person. Through my research on infidelity, there are 2 main features that define cheating: (1) secrecy and (2) intimacy (sexual and/or emotional). What people don't often think about is the emotional part. If you are hiding from your partner that you meet with another person regularly for coffee to talk about intimate details about your life or chatting on line with someone in a very intimate or romantic way, then that can be considered cheating too. So infidelity is not necessarily only about crossing the line sexually.

Ketch1, I wonder if you feel guilty because you are starting to get more sexual AND EMOTIONAL pleasure from these activities outside of your spouse? if you're having lots more fun with people other than your wife, than that might be a real problem.

[cassie]

If a couple have agreed that one or both of them can explore their bi side then I don't believe it is cheating.

Cheating in my opinion, like others have stated here, would be if your partner did not know. I don't believe that is fair or honest.

[usedbear1950]

What constitutes cheating? No easy answer. I was in a marriage where I was denied sex and trying to talk about it only elicited silence. I warned her that I am human and need the touch of another human being, something she did not seem to need. I maintained my vows for many years hoping that things would change. They did not...finally I had sex with another woman. She suspected as much and now wanted to talk but only to confront me with my supposed transgression. I denied a trangression on the basis that denial of sex was tatamount to breaking the wedding vows and therefore I did not cheat, I merely had sex. Some might consider this a rationalization on my part. So be it, you're entitled to your opinion. In 20 yrs of marriage I had sex with my ex a total of 20 times...none in the last five yrs of the marriage. She contended that the denial of sex was her personal right and not constrained by the wedding vows. I acknowledged her right to deny and asserted my right to sex. Did I inform her...no. I did not beleive that she deserved to know. Her denial over many years led to my seeking pleasure elsewhere. Was I cheating...no. Did I infrom her that her constant denials would lead me to find other company...yes. I was explicit enough. It took me many years to actively seek another sex partner. I was not seeking a thrill when I slept with another. I was seeking human contact. If the marriage vows are a bond, a contract if you will, then I was in a situation where the other party broke the terms of the contract and I was therefore free of the contract terms.
Had we been participating in an active sex life then I would be quilty of cheating. As the situation stands I was not cheating.
:soapbox: :2cents:

[JohnnyV]

Used Bear,

Allow me to offer a vote of confidence. I don't consider you a cheater at all. I think you were justified.

Love,
J

[m.in.heels&hose]

Hello,
Before i was involved with gina, i had a G/F who knew i was bi, and did not mind the fact that i enjoyed other guys, and she did not care when or why i went on "dates" with other men, (and she was free to have her fun with other guys as well) but i told her that i had a female friend who we were interested in each other (just for sexual purposes) and my G/F flipped out

She said that would mean me "cheating" on her and she was not having any of it


so it told me just how much the term "cheating" can vary from person to person


but i do agree with most, if its done in secret, it is cheating


thanks for listening m.in.heels&hose

[indie_fairie]

using your sexuality as an excuse for cheating is a odd concept some people seem to think validates their cheating, if you are in a straight relationship but still feel the urge to go with another woman/ man- cheating is cheating, you are going somewhere else to get satisfaction you cant get from where you already are. The issue as gender surely should not come into the equation?

[JohnnyV]

It's been interesting to read everyone's responses to this. Thanks, caboose, for a nice thread topic.

My philosophy about all this is to ask a different question, I guess. It's not whether you call something "cheating" or not, but what you are willing to accept in yourself. If your life situation is such that you desire something that you can't get at home, and you can't tell your spouse about it, then I think you may resort to cheating based on a rational decision to make yourself happy given the constraints of your life. It is incorrect to call it something other than cheating, but I think cheating is a practical choice, especially for a lot of bi people who can't get divorced but can't stop wanting the same sex.

J

[usedbear1950]

using your sexuality as an excuse for cheating is a odd concept some people seem to think validates their cheating, if you are in a straight relationship but still feel the urge to go with another woman/ man- cheating is cheating, you are going somewhere else to get satisfaction you cant get from where you already are. The issue as gender surely should not come into the equation?

I agree indie_fairie...as you state it, however the nuance in m.in.heels&hose's case is that his g/f defined cheating as sex with the opposite gender even though she was allowed to have sex with other men. I guess she saw this as a quid pro quo...you get same sex and me and i get you and other men and anything beyond that is cheating. I wounder how she would nuance the situation if she found herself attracted to other women. And that is where your generalization falls flat. In the narrow definition of one partner having sex with another person and the other partner is not aware is cheating. However, life does have a way of adding circumstances that leave generalizations in the dust.
JohnnyV, you accurately describe your position as a rationalization. Let me put this question out there...Are we bi's gluttons? Is our desire to have sex with both sexes a form of sexual overindulgence?
:2cents:

[JohnnyV]

Used Bear,

I don't think we're gluttons at all. We're actually the most in synch with our body's biorhythms. If you get a chance, read through Peter H's thread "the science of bisexuality." BiBiologist refers to some sound biological evidence for bisexuality as natural, and I lay out (perhaps a little too lengthily) the cultural/anthropological evidence that since the onset of civilization, human beings have usually been encouraged by their cultures to pursue simultaneous and different erotic attachments to the two different genders.

Love,
J

[indie_fairie]

I very much agree with you, i think issues like this are very blurred and everyone has different views and limits. personally i feel that just because i am bi does not mean that i should be allowed to sleep with another woman whilst still with my boyfriend, i see it as no different to sleeping with another bloke. but everyone is intitled too make their own choices.