Need some perspective...

[Georgie_Girl]

So my husband and I have become involved with this woman, she's a close friend of ours, and I've had wanted her for almost 3 years. When it started we set rules, the only one is that they can't have sex. He can go down on her, she can give him head, handjobs, anything like that, just no penis in the vagina sex. She and I have talked it out, and she understands and is willing to abstain from sex with him until I feel comfortable with it. He doesn't think I'm being fair, and when I pointed out that he can do to her exactly what I can do to her, he said "You don't have a dick". He and I still have sex, so I don't see why it's such a huge deal. Am I really being that unfair? Any opinions would be welcome. :)

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

You gotta have your bounderies and guidelines baby. I understand both sides of the situation, but hold fast until you are comfortable with the situation. Maybe after a while you could be ready to watch him have sex with her that way. :}
Hope all goes well honey. :}
Cat

[littlerayofsunshine]

He needs to respect you. If he can't then he is not mature enough to participate in a 3 some just yet. He may feel hurt that you wish no penetration, but that can easily be worked out before the 3 some. Having a unhappy wife is not worth the hour or whatever of sex that he would never get again if he pisses you off. He could still have a good time, allow you to get comfortable with all aspects of just having your lover be naked in the same room with you and someone else, doing other things. Then if and when you become comfortable enough to allow him penetration at another point in time, it will be an even more exciting and pleasing event.

Rules (boundaries) are important and necessary when there is insecurity. Respect is even more important and everything needs to be discussed.

I wish you all much pleasure.

[Realist]

I agree with Little Ray.....You've already given him more than most wives would! I think your limits are justified.

He should relax, enjoy what he has, and let things seek their own level. Forcing the issue only creates strain on all involved.

My GF and I have barriers, too; we agreed to them up front. It only makes sense.

Tell him to cool it and take things one at a time!

[Georgie_Girl]

Thank you guys, glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. :)

[graytwo]

So my husband and I have become involved with this woman, she's a close friend of ours, and I've had wanted her for almost 3 years. When it started we set rules, the only one is that they can't have sex. He can go down on her, she can give him head, handjobs, anything like that, just no penis in the vagina sex. She and I have talked it out, and she understands and is willing to abstain from sex with him until I feel comfortable with it. He doesn't think I'm being fair, and when I pointed out that he can do to her exactly what I can do to her, he said "You don't have a dick". ... :)

OK? what is your hubby's "major malfunction"??? Mr slick dick should enjoy or he can be replaced by plastic/rubber or other males. As for, Your not being unfair - heck far from it. The twit has no clue, he's the one that's self serving.

Listen, I'm only a male and can only speak from that standpoint. As far as I can see, you set the rules, he agreed by them until HE wanted more - now he's calling you unfair.

As for that "..dick ..." thing - you should have said, ".. how many people have hit on you in the bar - based on that thing?..".

Take a deep breath, stand your ground and smack down a horse/small pony out of control. Takes awhile to train 'em.

-graytwo

[Georgie_Girl]

Well for anyone who wants to know, they decided to sneak around behind my back rather than wait. One of the times was while I was at a close friend's funeral....

[lv69cpl69]

Well that is screwed up.:eek: you were right and they big time WRONG. do you know a lady named Bobbit? just a thought.
from the :male:1/2 here

[artsy girl]

:2cents:Honestly from my standpoint.. i kinda see this whole thing from his view.

when you decide to enter into a situation like that .. and than its something everbody is going to enjoy on an ongoing thing.. eventually your man is only naturally going to want to screw her. It's only tempting fate. When your continually doing everything else.. that's gonna be the most tempting thing.. especially if it already seems like your screwing her.

Now i am not saying it's justified to screw behind your back that's definitly not ok. But if you bring a woman in your bed.. you can be sure he's going to be tempted to screw her especially if he's continually put in a situation where he's tempted to. This is the way men think.

I'm sorry to be the barrer of bad new.. but i'm married.. and this is the one reason we've agreed to not bring anyone into our bed for the time being.
No matter how many rules you set.. eventually someone is tempted to break them.. and someone will possibly get hurt.

it's just my two cents. Married artsy girl

[NEPHX]

Making agreements one has no plans on sticky with aren't acceptable in my book. Them sneaking around behind your back and doing what they want against HIS agreement with you is still cheating in my book too... BUT... I don't think the agreement is realistic at all.


..... until I feel comfortable with it. He doesn't think I'm being fair...

POWER. You don't mention what constitutes what your being comfortable means. There are always power plays in any relationship(s). I personally think I would not want to participate with a third if there were boundaries that are unacceptable to any of the parties. That's an unnatural boundary for men in my view. But I might be inclined to make the agreement myself too... only later to realize that what I couldn't have was what I wanted most.... I would want PIV.

Kind of like saying "you can go in the pool, you just can't get wet."


...when I pointed out that he can do to her exactly what I can do to her, he said "You don't have a dick".

He's right. There are normal physiological aspects here... ya, we're evolved but we're still animals.

Maybe turn it around, if you had a man in bed, and he were bi, and he said, well, you can do everything I can do to him/him me... since he has no vaginal ... I'd be willing to bet that a good number of women would want PIV.


He and I still have sex, so I don't see why it's such a huge deal.

Of course you don't... Men and women are different species :eek: And, come on, men will do ANYONE/ANYTHING and want more. Its just how we are :doggie:

As for me, except for extremes, I don't like to put boundaries on things in bed. Someone will generally want to break through them in the heat of the moment (s) (as in now or later).

Maybe he just agreed just to get into bed with her (and you)... and lets face it, once you all opened Pandora's box (so to speak), how much further is PIV ...?

I think if we set unrealistic boundaries in open relationships, then they have a much higher potential to fail. If you really drilled him on not doing PIV before you all engaged, I bet you would both have come up with the same thing.. he wants it.

Heck.... sorry, first time in bed, I would have whined,"... hope your comfortable now cause, I'm goin in!" And I would TRIED to convince you how hot it would be watching/helping :bigrin: :doggie:

[lv69cpl69]

well NEPHX I do not agree with you if you love someone and have guide lines you will live up to them. and sneaking is cheating and WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS.but like everything else it's all the person. I love my wife we have guide lines and I will follow them it's called love and respect:male:1/2
just my:2cents:

[csreef]

Well for anyone who wants to know, they decided to sneak around behind my back rather than wait. One of the times was while I was at a close friend's funeral....

You wanted a threesome, you could have sex with her, but he couldn't.... what ? sounds like you are insecure and one sided...If you want someone to do something, just go tell them no & see what happens next...

[Georgie_Girl]

You wanted a threesome, you could have sex with her, but he couldn't.... what ? sounds like you are insecure and one sided...

he was allowed to do to her EXACTLY what I was allowed to do to her, no more, no less. He agreed to that condition before anything even started.

[mariersa]

Ain't marriage great, if i would have seen this thread earlier, oh well, sweetheart, you opened the "naughty" door. What did you expect total abstention from "out of marriage sex" oh please. Possibly you should have made the new rule " No sex Without Me" anyway another story. Good Luck and get your sex suit on, what it doesn't --------

[lv69cpl69]

he was allowed to do to her EXACTLY what I was allowed to do to her, no more, no less. He agreed to that condition before anything even started.
and as I said (sa a male that loves and respects his wife) we have rules and live by them. no matter what sneaking and cheating is WRONG. no excuse is good sorry if he is going to "do her" he should be honest

[eddy10]

Unless you can talk it out and come to a mutual understanding and agreement you can both live with, I hate to say it, but it sounds a bit like the end of the road. Sort of the 'my way or the highway' problem.

[Bisexual Explorer]

Put man and woman in a situation with a potential for exploitation and they (we) exploit it. It's who we are...read Genesis or Paradise Lost...from Day 1. To be a bit Biblical, Adam and Eve were wrong to eat the forbidden fruit and your husband and friend were wrong to go screwing behind your back when they agreed not to. You were naive to believe that two humans, the most sexual oriented creatures on the the planet, would be able to resist such temptation. It also seems to me that youare jealous of a relationship between your husband and your friend/lover competing with your relationships with both of them. Jealousy, like temptation, is another sin none of us can resist. Now that the sermon is over...

There's more than enough blame to go around, but what's the point? You can terminate your marriage and your relationship with your friend/lover, then we are you?, or forgive, establish new, more realistic boundaries, and keep having fun.

g

[Lenore]

Whether or not the agreement was fiar to him or not is not the point here. The point is that he that he DID agree to those rules. If he didn't think they were fair he should have said that up front before anything happened. Clearly his relationship with his wife was not nearly as important to him as getting laid. Sorry, he is an ass.

[Realist]

I agree, there has been some excellent arguments on both sides of this issue, but it does all boil down to promises. I believe that no matter what, your word has to be solid and you should be accountable for it. This juror is gonna go with GUILTY!

Now, what are you going to do about it?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Slipping behind someone's back and fucking is just another form of cheating even if ya'll Had played before. She knew the rules, so did he. And to do is while you were away at a funeral was just crass and assholeish.
How did you find out and what happens next?
I vote to smack both their pee-pee's, but thats just me...*Snicker*
Bad Cat

[Herbwoman39]

Hubby and I are monogamous but because I like to plan the hell out of everything, we have the same agreement if we ever find a third. When he asked why that one thing, I explained that I felt that he and I should have one thing that was just between he and I.

What those two did to you was dishonorable and disrespectful. Others have said basically that if you dangle the carrot in front of the horse you have to expect him to bite eventually. I could not disagree more.

It is a matter of sticking to what he agreed to. He cheated and lied so did she. I'm sorry they did this to you. There is no excuse for it.

[lv69cpl69]

Slipping behind someone's back and fucking is just another form of cheating even if ya'll Had played before. She knew the rules, so did he. And to do is while you were away at a funeral was just crass and assholeish.
How did you find out and what happens next?
I vote to smack both their pee-pee's, but thats just me...*Snicker*
Bad Cat

about what I was saying. IT'S CHEATING AND WRONG. no respect or love or he / they would never do this. :2cents: no mater the temptation:male:

[Georgie_Girl]

Slipping behind someone's back and fucking is just another form of cheating even if ya'll Had played before. She knew the rules, so did he. And to do is while you were away at a funeral was just crass and assholeish.
How did you find out and what happens next?
I vote to smack both their pee-pee's, but thats just me...*Snicker*
Bad Cat

He broke down and told me Friday night, but I've been suspecting for a while. We haven't decided what's going to happen next. If it had been just once, I could probably forgive it and move on, but it happened three times, and all three times it was planned ahead of time, not a spontaneous thing.


Your husband is correct that it is not fair as you can use toys on her and fist her as your profile says you are Lesbian, and this is a form of penetration between women and that you do not understand what it's like to have a penis.

No toys were ever used, no penetration except for fingers.

[NEPHX]

well NEPHX I do not agree with you if you love someone and have guide lines you will live up to them. and sneaking is cheating and WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS.but like everything else it's all the person. I love my wife we have guide lines and I will follow them it's called love and respect

No accounting for READING comprehension... but thanks so much for explaining your definition of "love and respect;" simplistic as it is. What part of my 1st paragraph did you miss?

By my saying "BUT... I don't think the agreement is realistic at all. " is not me somehow agreeing that it was alright for the husband to break the agreement (IMO). lv69cpl69, it appears you are reading into that statement.

Here's another angle for you, love and respect include realistic agreements, open and honest communication, etc., not power plays/control.

Georgie_Girl use of the word "Comfortable" is just another way of saying "threatened." Come on... "tongue in vagina while female partner rubs one out for the husband" is just as threatening as "penis in vagina" to be honest. It just becomes a matter of "control" and "power."

[etncple]

If you look on swinger sites and read the ads, you will find most couples have some sort of boundaries. Breaking those boundaries is a break of the trust between 2 people. These boundaries can vary greatly, from same room or seperate rooms with different partners, to playing alone, to oral only with others. It all depends on what is comfortable for both.

If he found it took restricting to settle for a hj/bj from her, he should have said so, not go behind your back. That being said, your gf also broke your trust since she was aware of the limits also. We had a male we saw for a while but, as time went on, he kept asking about just the 2 of us meeting if she wasn't available due to work. I reminded him we only played together as a couple but he persisted in asking. We decided together to stop seeing him since he was told upfront we would only meet as a couple.

I would take a step back and try and talk with them both before anymore playing. :2cents:

[lv69cpl69]

If you look on swinger sites and read the ads, you will find most couples have some sort of boundaries. Breaking those boundaries is a break of the trust between 2 people. These boundaries can vary greatly, from same room or seperate rooms with different partners, to playing alone, to oral only with others. It all depends on what is comfortable for both.

If he found it took restricting to settle for a hj/bj from her, he should have said so, not go behind your back. That being said, your gf also broke your trust since she was aware of the limits also. We had a male we saw for a while but, as time went on, he kept asking about just the 2 of us meeting if she wasn't available due to work. I reminded him we only played together as a couple but he persisted in asking. We decided together to stop seeing him since he was told upfront we would only meet as a couple.

I would take a step back and try and talk with them both before anymore playing. :2cents:


GOOD FOR YOU! you follow your boundaries. the only "control" I see is he needs to control his cock and her that pussy no matter how good. We are sexual beings but also have morals. (well most anyway) but like I said (and most here say) if you have "boundaries" you should live with them. an old joke men have 2 heads but only enough blood for one at a time to work. I guess in some cases it is true?
one of the things I like here is most here say on many threads that cheating is NOT THE WAY TO DO THINGS. ;)

[artsy girl]

I'm sorry for you things went the way they did. but unfortunatly.. agreement don't always work.

When me and my husband thought about the possibility of bringing someone into our bed.. that's what it came down to.. would it cause a problem with our relationship.

He actually looked it up on line.. and honey.. lots of relationships break up because for one reasone or another.. it caused problems in the relationship.
One person did something.. and caused distrust with the other.

I'd rather be in temptation than cause my marraige to split.

We both agreed that if we ever did agree to bring someone in .. it would be someone we both barely knew.. no emotional connections.. just physical and probably just a one time thing.
Once you get past a one time event.. than people get tempted.
I know most of the women on here don't agree.. but we are all just human.

I would pick up the pieces from here and hopefully you can still repair your marraige.

Married artsy girl

[Georgie_Girl]

I'm not leaving him, and we're going to remain friends with her. But no more bedroom activities between us. They're not allowed to be alone together, ever, and I'm monitoring all communication between them. I'm probably stupid for it, but I love him, and I care about her, and I don't want to be without either of them. Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[lv69cpl69]

see now THATS LOVE! GOOD LUCK we hope the best 4u 3;) :female::male:

[Georgie_Girl]

see now THATS LOVE! GOOD LUCK we hope the best 4u 3;) :female::male:

Thanks :)

[alexr]

So my husband and I have become involved with this woman, she's a close friend of ours, and I've had wanted her for almost 3 years. When it started we set rules, the only one is that they can't have sex. He can go down on her, she can give him head, handjobs, anything like that, just no penis in the vagina sex. She and I have talked it out, and she understands and is willing to abstain from sex with him until I feel comfortable with it. He doesn't think I'm being fair, and when I pointed out that he can do to her exactly what I can do to her, he said "You don't have a dick". He and I still have sex, so I don't see why it's such a huge deal. Am I really being that unfair? Any opinions would be welcome. :)

well naturally it would come to this, as u are an enabler. not that that's a bad thing but face it whats the difference in him eating her and fucking her?

[networktech]

From a guys point of view, this is his chance to have sex with another women. If he can't respect your wishes, don't do it. He will push the issue in bed with both of you. He is already pushing it. good luck

[lv69cpl69]

well naturally it would come to this, as u are an enabler. not that that's a bad thing but face it whats the difference in him eating her and fucking her?

Well lets see an AGREEMENT, a dick, sneaking around, honesty. mostly loving your mate (or friend) enough to live up to what you agreed to. As a male I find his actions insulting to men. but it did take 2 that don't care enough to have self control. sharing is one thing CHEATING IS WRONG PERIOD. She is better than the other 2 she is giving them a second chance.:male:

[jeancarleo]

maybe he already fucked her while you were not there :(
hey it could happen. Sorry!

[lv69cpl69]

There is no difference at all as it is all sex and the fact that he can't fuck her in the pussy is her way of trying to control him and no it is not cheating if he fucks this woman as she did agree to having an open relationship and letting him have sex with other women or this woman and it does not matter if he fucks her or gives her oral sex.

Well she is giving him one more chance. Just for information. MOST people in the "states" when they make an agreement live up to it. our word is our bond and if we give our word and break it it is a bad thing. if you sneak behind your lovers back to fuckit IS cheating. and we had a president even that said a b.j. aint sex. lol. but anyway he said he would not do it and did thats cheating, lieing and wrong, for those of us with morals and enough love to keep our word. Hell if I give my word to a stranger I keep it but thats in the U.S. can't speak for the rest of the world.:2cents:

[Georgie_Girl]

OM freaking G.
First off, thanks to the people who read everything THEN responded.
Secondly, The difference between eating her out and fucking her is that, 1, eating her out is not truly sex. It's a form of it, yes, but the intimacy of sex is not there. 2, I was going to let them fuck, just not yet. I had a horrid experience with a cheater and it left some scars. I wanted to be able to watch and enjoy, not sit in the corner and be miserable. 3, she is separated, not divorced yet. In PA, only PIV sex is adultery. Should her husband find out, he can and will use it against her. Lastly, they both agreed to that as the one and only condition.
We're keeping communication open, and hopefully can begin repairing the damage. I told him this is his only second chance.

[Georgie_Girl]

There is no difference at all as it is all sex and the fact that he can't fuck her in the pussy is her way of trying to control him and no it is not cheating if he fucks this woman as she did agree to having an open relationship and letting him have sex with other women or this woman and it does not matter if he fucks her or gives her oral sex.

I did not agree to an open relationship. I agreed to the three of us together, with one rule.

[lv69cpl69]

like I said good luck. we do hope the best for you/ the folks that don't understand the dif. also don't understand what giving your word is. you are right

[Georgie_Girl]

like I said good luck. we do hope the best for you/ the folks that don't understand the dif. also don't understand what giving your word is. you are right

Thank you again :)

[BiCycler]

Do I really want to wade in? Having only heard your side of a four sided issue. Yours, his, hers and the truth. Take the rest with the grain of salt necessary for me to make the fundamental leap required to respond. Dishonesty. I think that's a huge part of what went on here. Dishonesty hurts relationships. Cheating is the word others have used for this type of dishonesty. The moment the other two decided to act on a choice unknown to you, they cheated. Along with cheating comes lack of trust and lack of trust is a very difficult thing to overcome. Lack of trust inhibits growth in a relationship. When people enter into a relationship, there is an expectation that what transpires between them is real. In my own relationship, I see my partner as having dominion over her body, however, if she deceived me by sneaking around and lying, I would feel I had been wronged. This notion is, of course, reciprocal as the same thing applies to me. It's not really about what someone does with their body, it's about the lying and deception. There is a reason neither of us play separate from the other. Some people can manage it. We choose not to engage in that because our love is shared and we can not handle playing separately. I'm guessing:rolleyes: that aligns somewhat with your thinking? Any of the other posters here , men or women that said anything about ALL men are generalizing. Not all men are alike. I could easily enjoy a non-penetrative interaction with a third. Why not? What is the big deal? With my partner there I would have my opportunity for penetration. I also have never really understood the importance of penetration except for the first time. (Perhaps different for women, but I waited for the right guy and wanted it to be something special and realized immediately after, that it was just another way to enjoy sex. Again, my perspective). So I really don't understand your need to restrict that aspect of his play. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply saying I do not understand. You said,
he was allowed to do to her EXACTLY what I was allowed to do to her, no more, no less. He agreed to that condition before anything even started. He does not have a vagina and you have no penis so to compare really isn't fair. Sex between women surely must be different than sex between a man and a woman. My experience is that sex between myself and a man is different than sex between myself and a woman. However, the second half of that quote makes the first half moot. He agreed to that condition. He is really the one being unfair. You say you want to continue your relationship with him and with her. Power on girl, all three of you have got a lot of work to do. I hope you are successful. :grouphug:

[lv69cpl69]

Well you have an open relationship now whether you like it or not, as you and your husband are not monogamous and are inviting other people over for sex even if it is just that one woman who you are pretending he's not fucking or having sex with by eating her pussy or taking his cock in her mouth.

He is having sex with her too even if you want the illusion of control by saying that he's somehow not 'really' having sex with her because he's not sticking his cock in her pussy or ass. :rolleyes:

NOPE it is not an "open" relationship. They (like my wife and I) agreed that somethings are off limits. from what I have read they (3 of them) ALL agreed not play without each other and he has 1 of 6 holes off limits. 2 broke off without the 3rd. They wronged her. like I said WHEN HONEST ADULTS IN THE STATES GIVE THEIR WORD THEY KEEP IT. if he wanted it changed he could/should have talked about it but it is self centered and non carring to sneak around. We in the U.S.A are PROUD to keep our word (most of us, elected officials not included they are expted to be liers). guess from what you keep saying in Europe, Netherlands and Belgium your word is only good if you are not tempted to break it.
SHE IS RIGHT THE OTHER 2 WERE WRONG no matter how you try to paint it thats it. If they agreed and broke the agreement they are wrong. If anyone else agrees with it or not they made the agreement and should live up to it or try to change it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CHEATING IS WRONG WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

[BiCycler]

l69cpl69 you typed, "We in the U.S.A are PROUD to keep our word (most of us, elected officials not included they are expted to be liers). guess from what you keep saying in Europe, Netherlands and Belgium your word is only good if you are not tempted to break it". Really? That's a bit of a generalization and not what the thread is addressing. Americans just like Europeans and anyone else in the world are people. Saying that 360 million or so individuals think and act like you is ludicrous and painting Europeans, the Dutch and Belgians with the same brush is just as ludicrous. My guess is your argument is not with the whole of Europe, but rather with one individual here. And I believe the particular individual in question, not Europeans is misogynistic. He is very easy to deal with. Hit the ignore button in your brain and let him rant, poor guy. I think perhaps some of the differences in opinions raised here have something to do with differing opinions of what constitutes relationship. Perhaps defining what your relationship means to you and asking the same from your male partner as well as your female partner is something to consider. Then re-establish boundaries based on that information and define firm consequences that you and party can agree to and live with should the boundaries be crossed. This is not a simple situation.