Is Sex Over

[ghytifrdnr]

"Laura Kipnis in her recent book, Against Love, writes about how monogamy stifles the sex out of us by setting up “police state conditions that people consent to live under to achieve it, and to make sure their partners are in compliance. The problem is being asked to commit to boredom and unmet needs as the supposed price of social stability.
Translation: bye-bye sex."

http://seasonedsex.com/sexual-satisfaction/

Good article, and the above paragraph sure hits it for me.
:2cents:

[_Joe_]

Monogamy takes the thrill out of ANYTHING is the problem, yet we all like to focus on sex. Who doesn't, sex sells.

Lunch, breakfast, dinner, the morning drive, the song on the radio, the 'hot topic' of the day, the clothes, your favorite candy, etc, you can only do so much with one thing till it needs to be changed. It's the Law of Diminishing returns basically. Unlike Lunch, breakfast, dinner, drive, etc, your life partner is given the assumption that things DO NOT CHANGE. And you want to make damn sure you don't hold that assumption.

And you know, I believe if YOU and YOUR life partner don't change, then yes you are setting yourself up for failure due to stagnation.

Things that need to change is types of conversations you have, or subjects of it more likely. Taste in things you like to do - or at least have a good mix to keep things from going into a rut. Your meals together, maybe the settings, have to change. There's tons more, you get the point I hope.
As we grow older, we mature physically and mentally, and often these changes evolve together to things we don't even really notice... but it happens. My wife and I are always noticing we don't do x like we used to, but at the same time we now do Y. And I'm not talking about in the bedroom, even though those things over time have changed as well.

From graduation from college to five years later, half of my friends that were married were already looking at divorce or already divorced, and what I found surprising was most of them said the same thing, "nothing changed since we knew each other", which isn't just 5 years, it was from since they started dating. They fell into feeling like roommates more than lovers.

And when it comes to marriage or monogamy, sex is part of the relationship, however most like to see it as 99.9% of the relationship and ignore the other things. And when you do that, one of my favorite sayings in finance can easily be substituted, "When you put the penny up close to your eye, and focus completely on that, you can't see the dollar bills behind it". You can't solely focus on sex, as you need to realize "Nobody is perfect", and that includes YOU. Sit down, and make a list of all the things you love about your partner, you love to do with your partner, and etc etc. Of course go ahead and put sex at the top. Taste in movies. Senses of humor. Favorite foods. Attire choices. Their degree of personal upkeep. Music. Opinions. Tolerance of you! (I love my wife for putting up with my shit, and most of us can say that!). Someone to trust. Confide in. Comfort knowing when you get home, someone's happy to see you and not just on four legs all the time. ETc. etc. etc.

Now that you have this long list, keep in mind that as much as we all want sex, and love sex, sex is not the only thing on that list that you are lucky to have, and ask yourself how many people you know lack those things. Hopefully you realize if you're like me, in a marriage that is lacking in the subject matter of sex, that there's still alot of things to balance it out.

If all you want out of a relationship is sex, by all means just carry plenty of cash and find a damn good call girl, because then its totally acceptable to feed your narcissism for what you think is perfect for you instead of a partnership that is marriage.

In the end, if you aren't getting enough in your marriage, you can always self-love to a certain degree, but if you're single and alone and want the other benefits of marriage, you will have to become schizophrenic or develop an unhealthy relationship with stuffed animals.

That's my :2cents:, for what it's worth.

[Shhhhh 47/F/usa]

Yeah what Joe said.

[elian]

Well, if the number of adultery themed shows on Jerry Springer are any indication...<smiles>

[_Joe_]

Well, if the number of adultery themed shows on Jerry Springer are any indication...<smiles>

Oh you mean the "Reality Check, Humanity is fucked" show ?

haha ya, there was an interview with Springer last year where he finally admitted his show is depressing for society.

[ghytifrdnr]

Well Joe, you offer up all the standard relationship platitudes, but from my viewpoint they're just putting spackle on the crack in the dam. I've been there and tried all of them. Monogamy is still restrictive and boring.
And to shed light on my viewpoint, my mate and I had been married eight years when you were born.

[_Joe_]

Well Joe, you offer up all the standard relationship platitudes, but from my viewpoint they're just putting spackle on the crack in the dam. I've been there and tried all of them. Monogamy is still restrictive and boring.
And to shed light on my viewpoint, my mate and I had been married eight years when you were born.

I can't help but have the feeling I got totally dismissed for being so young and naive. I've been told that several times by many older guys. I'll leave it at that as I get quite harsh if that's the case.

[ghytifrdnr]

Joe, it wasn't meant as a personal attack. It's just that it seems as though every time I run into a similar argument, it's always from someone in their twenties or thirties and it comes across to me as though they think they have life all nailed down. I probably had life all nailed down when I was thirty too. It doesn't seem so nearly so clear forty years later.

[Shhhhh 47/F/usa]

Joe, it wasn't meant as a personal attack. It's just that it seems as though every time I run into a similar argument, it's always from someone in their twenties or thirties and it comes across to me as though they think they have life all nailed down. I probably had life all nailed down when I was thirty too. It doesn't seem so nearly so clear forty years later.

Well I'm no spring chicken and have been around the block plenty of times to qualify as a person who has expirienced enough of life to know what is what. I am not what could be called a conformist so I don't neccessarily let society always dictate how I live my life. I agree with what Joe says about love and marriage and monogomy. I also know that not all people operate on that deep of a level. I know that it takes both partner's operating together to achieve that level of what I call a spiritual connection and I'm not talking about the religious kind. It's something not every one is capable of achieving but that certainly doesn't mitigate it's importance or it's exsitance.

[_Joe_]

Joe, it wasn't meant as a personal attack. It's just that it seems as though every time I run into a similar argument, it's always from someone in their twenties or thirties and it comes across to me as though they think they have life all nailed down. I probably had life all nailed down when I was thirty too. It doesn't seem so nearly so clear forty years later.



I had been married eight years when you were born.

Well, my opinion I posted wasn't formed when I was born, it was formed yesterday when I've been married only 13 years next month. So I don't see what you're trying to get at with that above quote other than babies are an unreliable source of information.

Out of several friends I've had in the past 15 years, I'm the only one of two that are still married to their original spouse. I'm bisexual and has an aggravating libido, my wife tied up in some medications for Bipolar II and has damn near no libido for almost half our marriage. And yet, we tell each other we love each other more now than ever. I must be doing something right I like to think.

As to why I get so defensive with the idea that my opinion is tossed aside due to my age is that people much older than myself, or married longer than myself, have repeatedly told me that I'm wasting my life away and should go out and pursue my own desires, which is nothing short of a narcissistic & selfish attitude. Nobody ever stops to contemplate maybe there's something else in my relationship I'm getting that makes me work through the lack of sex.... which is sad as I can only assume that those that say those things must have/had either 1.) a spouse that isn't fun and interesting to be around outside the bedroom or 2.) be selfish self-centered people that can't see beyond the tip of their own dick (or tits since I hate to be sexist).

Don't get me wrong, I know it takes two to tango and you can only do so much trying to make things work in a marriage, that there comes a time when things just will not come together and then there's the separation. I feel if you're going to go ahead and start going around looking for the fuck buddy and whatnot behind the spouses back, it's about time to go ahead and do the separation/therapy/counseling/etc -- because it will be a lot cheaper and affordable than a divorce after getting caught. My brother can testify to that!



Ah well. now I'm babbling. and being serious. and I hate being serious.

[Herbwoman39]

There is SO much more to marriage than sex. What about companionship, trust, leaning on each other in hard times and having someone you can talk to about anything no matter what it is?

Sure there are LOTS of bad marriages out there. I was in one for almost 7 years with my first husband. I even admit to having an affair. Believe me it's not just because there was no sex. We had grown apart emotionally as well. So I went outside the marriage to find what I was looking for in my mid 20's.

I've since been married to my current husband for 13 years this past April. This relationship is completely different. So to call my current marriage a police state is something that I find highly insulting.

If you're in a marriage where your needs are going unmet, ASK your spouse to FILL those needs! Why is this so hard? Find a way to make it work. If you don't want to do that, don't be married. It's a simple choice.

[Alaskan Couple]

"Laura Kipnis in her recent book, Against Love, writes about how monogamy stifles the sex out of us by setting up “police state conditions that people consent to live under to achieve it, and to make sure their partners are in compliance. The problem is being asked to commit to boredom and unmet needs as the supposed price of social stability.
Translation: bye-bye sex."

http://seasonedsex.com/sexual-satisfaction/

Good article, and the above paragraph sure hits it for me.
:2cents:

Note the phase; "...supposed price of social stability." I believe this author has missed the big point while trying to justify her position. In fact, it is the price for stability in most marriages and thus it is the price for social stability.

Why is this? Because , as has been said above, not everyone is mature enough emotionally or mentally to succeed in an "open marriage". Without maturity and wisdom, open marriages are time bombs waiting to explode because of the normal human passions of jealousy, pride and covetousness, etc. It's a bitch, but true, most marriages would fail even faster w/o monogamy. And we have yet to see what will be the full outfall of the great increase in broken marriages and single parents. (We have all witnessed some and it is not encouraging - on a societal level).

Does that mean monogamy is the absolute or ultimate? I believe not. In fact, I believe that an emotionally mature and stable couple could open up and bring many others into their cocoon of love. Thus fulfilling the various "needs" of everyone involved. This is especially true in the case of bisexual needs where the opposite gendered spouse is simply not "equipped" to fulfill those needs. But, in my opinion it takes maturity and wisdom to work through these open relationships...and there is always potential for unseen complications.

That's just my two pence; I think the author hasn't fully thought through all of the ramifications of non-monogamous marriages. Not everyone is ready for or wants an open marriage. And as has been said above, there are many other benefits, rewards and joys from marriage besides sex.

[zyzygy]

If all you want out of a relationship is sex, by all means just carry plenty of cash and find a damn good call girl, because then its totally acceptable to feed your narcissism for what you think is perfect for you instead of a partnership that is marriage.


How amusing. My girlfriend has cost me $50,000 in the last year and the sex is fantastic. I don't hold it against her, it was my choice to support her and help her start a business, which has subsequently failed, but a call girl would have been a LOT cheaper.

[**Peg**]

Well Joe, you offer up all the standard relationship platitudes, but from my viewpoint they're just putting spackle on the crack in the dam. I've been there and tried all of them. Monogamy is still restrictive and boring.
And to shed light on my viewpoint, my mate and I had been married eight years when you were born.

Oh my, withering sarcasm is so unattractive.

If monogamy is restrictive and boring, I cannot help but to advise you to look in a mirror. Would a happily-married person post this in their profile? "I'd like to find a couple of friends-with-benefits who can meet occasionally for recreational sex. I'm interested in females, males, trans, couples and groups...."

Sounds to me as if Joe hit a nerve by relaying the depth of his love and devotion to his wife and family. In his profile, Joe clearly states: "I'm not looking for a hookup, from men or women. Seriously. No kidding." ... and he's NOT. Seriously. No kidding.

Age has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Joe is younger than my daughter and I admire the hell out of this "young" man for those reasons and more.

JMO :2cents:

[Realist]

Just yesterday, I was talking to a friend, who married when he was 17 and his wife was 15! They've been married for 51 years! To anyone who observes them, they can easily see the couple are the best of friends and lovers.

Hell, I've been married 3 times! I've lied and cheated and disregarded my vows numerous times, during my 2nd marriage. I grew to hate myself and my lifestyle; my life was so superficial and meaningless.

I didn't cheat on my 1st or 3rd wives. I loved the first one and never once wanted to be with anyone else. We divorced for some really stupid things I did, not related to our relationship, or sex.

Although I didn't cheat on my 3rd wife, I wanted to. Finally, I understood that the only way I'd ever be happy was to be open and honest about my life, interests and bisexuality, too.

After we divorced, I had an epiphany; it was ME who was screwed up, not everyone else! (I know, I'm awfully slow to catch on)

It's been a long road and, although I have been steadfast and honest with any new potential lovers, most of them balked when I revealed my secrets.

For a time I was waffling, on the honesty aspects. But then I met the most wonderful poly/bi girl, right here! It finally dawned on me that the only one who could understand me and love me for me, would someone who is tolerant of my bisexuality, or is bisexual too. Regardless of the vast difference in our ages, we are like to peas in a pod!

Since we don't get to see each other as often as we'd like, she took the initiative and suggested that we bring another into our relationship. Male, or female, she is not biased, but we both must agree on caution, intelligence and compatibility, for being the criteria for a mutual and loving relationship.

[artsy girl]

I think joe has hit some very valid points. I have been with my husband for roughly 14 yrs.. and i can truly say...i'm much happier now that i know i'm bi and am aware of my sexuality.

It did take some time to adjust.. and i truly wondered at first whether i could stay married knowing that he wanted to be monogomous and i might never have sex with a woman. I truly thought about leaving thinking i might make both of us miserable.. until i came to this site and starting seeing all the married people on here who seem to make it work.. regardless of their temptations.

When it came down to it.. i realized i wanted the marraige more than i wanted to be single and free to float around and have sex with women.

Marraige takes a lot of commitment and investment. Most people who's marraiges end don''t invest like they should. Things change over years.. you both change and .. you go through periods where you don't want to have sex.. than you do non-stop..your interests change.. what you need out of the relationship changes...
It's a constant change thing.. but you learn out of it .. to continue to connect and talk and change together.

I honestly think it takes two to make it work.. but it also sometimes takes two to let it fall apart..in some situations of course.

I have seen lots of marriages fall apart even at my age of 34... younger friends and much older friends.
I actually learn more from watching peoples marraiges fall apart.(it's a sad thing of course)

funny enough my husband was the one who suggested i come to a forum like this.


I think the one thing that has made my marraige work is the fact that me and my hubbie are people that are willing to grow and change on the inside.

marriedartsygirl